D’Angelo Russell first player in 50 years to score 70+ points over 2 consecutive games without a free throw attempt

[lefty]

I mean Nets

[140]

D'tective :wow

[lefty]

D'tective :wow
But Lonzo!

[313]

:lolakers

[Spurtacular]

Still a bust, tbh.

[Chris]

:lolakers

:lolonzo

[BD24]

Still a bust, tbh.
In what way? Below is a list of #2 picks since 2005 (excluded this year). On this list the only ones you can say definitely have been better/had a better career than him thus far are Durant, Dipo, and LMA. Let's not forget that Dipo didn't hit his stride until last year. You can argue MKG and Jabari have been better maybe, I would say you are wrong though.

#2 picks routinely don't pan out, at all. Look how many of these guys below were absolute shit. The kid is only in his 4th year and is playing pretty well imo.

2017 Lonzo Ball, UCLA – Los Angeles Lakers
2016 Brandon Ingram, Duke – Los Angeles Lakers
2015 D’Angelo Russell, Ohio State – Los Angeles Lakers
2014 Jabari Parker, Duke – Milwaukee Bucks
2013 Victor Oladipo, Indiana – Orlando Magic
2012 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Kentucky – Charlotte Bobcats
2011 Derrick Williams, Arizona – Minnesota Timberwolves
2010 Evan Turner, Ohio State – Philadelphia 76ers
2000’s
2009 Hasheem Thabeet, Connecticut – Memphis Grizzlies
2008 Michael Beasley, Kansas State – Miami HEAT
2007 Kevin Durant, Texas – Seattle Supersonics
2006 LaMarcus Aldridge, Texas – Chicago Bulls (Draft rights traded to Portland Trail Blazers)
2005 Marvin Williams, North Carolina – Atlanta Hawks

[Spurtacular]

In what way? Below is a list of #2 picks since 2005 (excluded this year). On this list the only ones you can say definitely have been better/had a better career than him thus far are Durant, Dipo, and LMA. Let's not forget that Dipo didn't hit his stride until last year. You can argue MKG and Jabari have been better maybe, I would say you are wrong though.

#2 picks routinely don't pan out, at all. Look how many of these guys below were absolute shit. The kid is only in his 4th year and is playing pretty well imo.

2017 Lonzo Ball, UCLA – Los Angeles Lakers
2016 Brandon Ingram, Duke – Los Angeles Lakers
2015 D’Angelo Russell, Ohio State – Los Angeles Lakers
2014 Jabari Parker, Duke – Milwaukee Bucks
2013 Victor Oladipo, Indiana – Orlando Magic
2012 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Kentucky – Charlotte Bobcats
2011 Derrick Williams, Arizona – Minnesota Timberwolves
2010 Evan Turner, Ohio State – Philadelphia 76ers
2000’s
2009 Hasheem Thabeet, Connecticut – Memphis Grizzlies
2008 Michael Beasley, Kansas State – Miami HEAT
2007 Kevin Durant, Texas – Seattle Supersonics
2006 LaMarcus Aldridge, Texas – Chicago Bulls (Draft rights traded to Portland Trail Blazers)
2005 Marvin Williams, North Carolina – Atlanta Hawks

In the way that if you're not hitting all-star level you're a bust as a #2 overall. It doesn't surprise me that the NBA front offices have got it wrong so many times though.

[BD24]

In the way that if you're not hitting all-star level you're a bust as a #2 overall. It doesn't surprise me that the NBA front offices have got it wrong so many times though.
No, a bust is trading up to #10 to draft a scrub that washes out of the league within a few years tbh.

[Spurtacular]

No, a bust is trading up to #10 to draft a scrub that washes out of the league within a few years tbh.

Object lesson in how a team can fail it's draftee, tbh.

[Chris Fall]

I wouldn’t call him a bust yet. He’s having a pretty good season and his team isn’t super shitty even though they’re in the East. So the stats aren’t completely empty. But suggesting that him being probably the 4th best #2 pick of the last 13 drafts doesn’t mean he’s not a bust. Just like being the fourth skinniest kid at fat camp doesn’t make you not fat. The #2 pick has been historically bad over the recent history of the draft. The expectation should be to have a franchise caliber player for over a decade with that pick, certainly a multiple all star caliber guy. Yet it’s happened so rarely at #2 over the years.

Time will tell, but “bust” is not out of the question.

[BD24]

I wouldn’t call him a bust yet. He’s having a pretty good season and his team isn’t super shitty even though they’re in the East. So the stats aren’t completely empty. But suggesting that him being probably the 4th best #2 pick of the last 13 drafts doesn’t mean he’s not a bust. Just like being the fourth skinniest kid at fat camp doesn’t make you not fat. The #2 pick has been historically bad over the recent history of the draft. The expectation should be to have a franchise caliber player for over a decade with that pick, certainly a multiple all star caliber guy. Yet it’s happened so rarely at #2 over the years.

Time will tell, but “bust” is not out of the question.
Thats a bit much. How many franchise players are even in the league right now? 5? maybe 10, I think that would be generous. To expect a franchise player is kind of ridiculous. Maybe a multiple all star guy is fair, but he still has time to build to that.

[Chris Fall]

If you get #2 in a draft, you should have pretty high hopes for the kid. Franchise caliber player isn’t too high an expectation imo. I’m not suggesting Shaq, Duncan, LeBron generational type talent. But franchise player, including the likes of a Russ or Anthony Davis, an Iverson or McGrady type guy. Call them losers but they are/were franchise caliber players. Every draft has a franchise player in its class. Most have at least a couple. At #2, go get one. That should be the expectation. Multiple all star level should be the floor expectation.

We all know that hasn’t happened with the #2 pick very much over the past couple decades. It’s riddled with guys like Darko and Thabeet and even college studs like Derrick Williams busted. It’s the curse of Len Bias really. Since him, the #2 pick has been for the most part an utter disaster. Hell before Durant, the last #2 pick to be “great” enough to finish his career with a 20+ ppg average was 1972’s #2 pick Bob McAdoo. Even before the past 13 drafts, the #2 pick has been littered with Danny Ferrys and Shawn Bradleys and Stromile Swifts. It’s cursed.

[Corporal_Upham]

In what way? Below is a list of #2 picks since 2005 (excluded this year). On this list the only ones you can say definitely have been better/had a better career than him thus far are Durant, Dipo, and LMA. Let's not forget that Dipo didn't hit his stride until last year. You can argue MKG and Jabari have been better maybe, I would say you are wrong though.

#2 picks routinely don't pan out, at all. Look how many of these guys below were absolute shit. The kid is only in his 4th year and is playing pretty well imo.
:lol
2017 Lonzo Ball, UCLA – Los Angeles Lakers
2016 Brandon Ingram, Duke – Los Angeles Lakers
2015 D’Angelo Russell, Ohio State – Los Angeles Lakers
2014 Jabari Parker, Duke – Milwaukee Bucks
2013 Victor Oladipo, Indiana – Orlando Magic
2012 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Kentucky – Charlotte Bobcats
2011 Derrick Williams, Arizona – Minnesota Timberwolves
2010 Evan Turner, Ohio State – Philadelphia 76ers
2000’s
2009 Hasheem Thabeet, Connecticut – Memphis Grizzlies
2008 Michael Beasley, Kansas State – Miami HEAT
2007 Kevin Durant, Texas – Seattle Supersonics
2006 LaMarcus Aldridge, Texas – Chicago Bulls (Draft rights traded to Portland Trail Blazers)
2005 Marvin Williams, North Carolina – Atlanta Hawks


Shit take. Go kill yourself already.

[Mr. Body]

Definitely not a bust. Guessing most of you haven't watched him much. He's playing a different game now. He's a threat as a shooter and has nice court vision. His defense has actually improved. He has star quality, to be sure. I'd pick him, absolutely, over any of the Lakers Babies. But that's not even the topic anymore. He needed to get out of that toxic environment, has a coach and GM that are pushing him and teaching him, and he's inching toward All-Star quality.

[Chris]

Turned into a pretty good basketball player once he left the toxic environment.

[Raven]

he's an obvious bust, the burden of having a busted draft pick is on the team, not the player. Whether he becomes a good player in a far distant future, has little to do with a teams capability to draft.

[Rusty]

He’s getting at least $100 million this sunmer

[lebomb]

DLO- definitely not a bust if you understand basketball at all.
ZO- definitely looks like a bust if you understand basketball at all. He will never play at the level DLO plays because of his shooting ability. Its extremely streaky at best. Thats not good enough for the NBA long term.

[Will Hunting]

Might have taken longer than expected for him to start playing at a high level but that’s in large part because the Lakers wasted his rookie year with the Kobe retirement tour.

Turning the Lakers into a tribute to Kobe for more or less two full seasons without any effort to win or rebuild during that time set that franchise back 5 years.

[MultiTroll]

Might have taken longer than expected for him to start playing at a high level but that’s in large part because the Lakers wasted his rookie year with the Kobe retirement tour.

Turning the Lakers into a tribute to Kobe for more or less two full seasons without any effort to win or rebuild during that time set that franchise back 5 years.
This.

#mamba_mentality

[BD24]

Turned into a pretty good basketball player once he left the toxic environment.
This tbh

[BD24]

Shit take. Go kill yourself already.
Who’s shitty troll is this btw? You can come out of hiding pussy :lol

[Killakobe81]

he's an obvious bust, the burden of having a busted draft pick is on the team, not the player. Whether he becomes a good player in a far distant future, has little to do with a teams capability to draft.

Drafting well and developing well are not the same. You can draft a talent and they blossom else where. Means scouts were right but coaching staff couldn't unlock the potential.
He is not a a star and not a bust...

[Killakobe81]

DLO- definitely not a bust if you understand basketball at all.
ZO- definitely looks like a bust if you understand basketball at all. He will never play at the level DLO plays because of his shooting ability. Its extremely streaky at best. Thats not good enough for the NBA long term.

But Russell was a bust in year two according to everyone here... Revisionist history...and lack of perspective.

[BD24]

But Russell was a bust in year two according to everyone here... Revisionist history...and lack of perspective.
I was wrong about DLO and will gladly admit it. Apperantly he just needed a scenery change tbh.

[lebomb]

But Russell was a bust in year two according to everyone here... Revisionist history...and lack of perspective.

All I know is he had a decent shot. I could clearly see he just needed more time and some pieces around him. But!!!! His shooting stroke was there. Zo on the other hand doesnt have a decent shot at all. Sure he can pass to a wide open person for a 3 and grab some boards, but you will never be able to count on his scoring like DLO.

[Killakobe81]

I was wrong about DLO and will gladly admit it. Apperantly he just needed a scenery change tbh.

wasnt calling you out, per se more dudes like Raven ...but he sucks at scouting young players.

[Killakobe81]

I wouldn’t call him a bust yet. He’s having a pretty good season and his team isn’t super shitty even though they’re in the East. So the stats aren’t completely empty. But suggesting that him being probably the 4th best #2 pick of the last 13 drafts doesn’t mean he’s not a bust. Just like being the fourth skinniest kid at fat camp doesn’t make you not fat. The #2 pick has been historically bad over the recent history of the draft. The expectation should be to have a franchise caliber player for over a decade with that pick, certainly a multiple all star caliber guy. Yet it’s happened so rarely at #2 over the years.

Time will tell, but “bust” is not out of the question.

you know i fux with your analysis ...but if recent draft history for #2 picks have been historically bad, is it logical to expect Russeel, Ingram etc. to do well.?! Isn't that illogical?! :lol
Amb brought this subject up a while back ...(and i kinda scoffed) but if most drafts are a one-person (potential star, forget true Legacy player like a Bron or KD) why would you expect a franchise caliber type player from #2?!
That does not make any sense.
The histoprical dtata says one thing but we should expect another?

[BD24]

wasnt calling you out, per se more dudes like Raven ...but he sucks at scouting young players.
Raven is a fucking idiot tbh :lol

I didn’t think you were necessarily calling me out, but wanted to on up to being wrong tbh. Everyone has bad takes from time to time and are wrong about things. The true faggots are the ones that won’t own their shit

[Killakobe81]

Raven is a fucking idiot tbh :lol

I didn’t think you were necessarily calling me out, but wanted to on up to being wrong tbh. Everyone has bad takes from time to time and are wrong about things. The true faggots are the ones that won’t own their shit

I respect that ... and Raven :lol

[Chris Fall]

you know i fux with your analysis ...but if recent draft history for #2 picks have been historically bad, is it logical to expect Russeel, Ingram etc. to do well.?! Isn't that illogical?! :lol
Amb brought this subject up a while back ...(and i kinda scoffed) but if most drafts are a one-person (potential star, forget true Legacy player like a Bron or KD) why would you expect a franchise caliber type player from #2?!
That does not make any sense.
The histoprical dtata says one thing but we should expect another?

The historical data is counter to logic. After 100 years of losing, should the recent Chicago Cubs teams “expect” to just fail regardless what type of talent is on the roster... just because of historical data? Last year, when history tells you it NEVER happens, should UMBC should have just given up when the game started as a #16 seed against #1 seed UVA? It’s... historical data.

The data is largely based on randomness and bad luck. The draft can be a random crap shoot. And you can’t account for bad luck or stupidity of front offices. Statistically, at #2, you have the field to choose from after one selection. There will be future all stars, future superstars, future franchise players available. If you get to choose anyone except one, do your due diligence and homework, and go get one. Statistically, things are in your favor. And you SHOULD expect to get THAT type of player. The fact that many teams have failed to do so doesn’t change that they should have.

[313]

Lonzo is a much better defensive player than DLo ever has been and likely ever will be.

His offense stinks, though and DLo would be an infinitely better fit next to Bron.

[Clipper Nation]

:lmao L:lolnz:lol
:lmao GM Magic

[Fabbs]

Still think is possible, even if improbable that Lonzo will fix his jump shot.
Steals and boards he's great.
Passing pretty good.

Cut the kid some slack, look at his biological male donor that he had to live with.

[Raven]

Drafting well and developing well are not the same. You can draft a talent and they blossom else where. Means scouts were right but coaching staff couldn't unlock the potential.
He is not a a star and not a bust...

In the case of Dbust then, he's a bust, because the scouts (frankly I think it was the fron office really) misjudged his characteristics. With the same premise, gonzo is also a bust, since we know they drafted him to be the next magic johnson that has potential to defend, rather than a potential tony allen.. That is also why Porzingis can't be a bust, they got what they were looking for, too bad at some point down the line he tore his acl..

[Raven]

In what way? Below is a list of #2 picks since 2005 (excluded this year). On this list the only ones you can say definitely have been better/had a better career than him thus far are Durant, Dipo, and LMA. Let's not forget that Dipo didn't hit his stride until last year. You can argue MKG and Jabari have been better maybe, I would say you are wrong though.

#2 picks routinely don't pan out, at all. Look how many of these guys below were absolute shit. The kid is only in his 4th year and is playing pretty well imo.

2017 Lonzo Ball, UCLA – Los Angeles Lakers
2016 Brandon Ingram, Duke – Los Angeles Lakers
2015 D’Angelo Russell, Ohio State – Los Angeles Lakers
2014 Jabari Parker, Duke – Milwaukee Bucks
2013 Victor Oladipo, Indiana – Orlando Magic
2012 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Kentucky – Charlotte Bobcats
2011 Derrick Williams, Arizona – Minnesota Timberwolves
2010 Evan Turner, Ohio State – Philadelphia 76ers
2000’s
2009 Hasheem Thabeet, Connecticut – Memphis Grizzlies
2008 Michael Beasley, Kansas State – Miami HEAT
2007 Kevin Durant, Texas – Seattle Supersonics
2006 LaMarcus Aldridge, Texas – Chicago Bulls (Draft rights traded to Portland Trail Blazers)
2005 Marvin Williams, North Carolina – Atlanta Hawks

Are you for real? :lol Same as randle, from him they got next to nothing and spent years and years of embarassments while developing him..

[BD24]

Are you for real? :lol Same as randle, from him they got next to nothing and spent years and years of embarassments while developing him..
Just because the Lakers got nothing from him does not make him a bust.

This is the same moron that thought Jahlil Okafor was the 2nd coming though. So I shouldn't be expecting intelligent comments from you tbh.

[Raven]

Just because the Lakers got nothing from him does not make him a bust.

This is the same moron that thought Jahlil Okafor was the 2nd coming though. So I shouldn't be expecting intelligent comments from you tbh.

as far as i know a draft pick is an asset of a team. Also what's with this okafor bs that keeps coming back? :lol I mean if you feel like defending having mozgov on a mega contract as the better option, then go ahead, but i respectfully disagree..

[BD24]

as far as i know a draft pick is an asset of a team. Also what's with this okafor bs that keeps coming back? :lol I mean if you feel like defending having mozgov on a mega contract as the better option, then go ahead, but i respectfully disagree..
More incoherent nonsense as expected. Maybe Killa will debate with you, but I'm not wasting my time.

[Killakobe81]

More incoherent nonsense as expected. Maybe Killa will debate with you, but I'm not wasting my time.

Nahhh I'm good. You summed it up perfectly.

[Killakobe81]

The historical data is counter to logic. After 100 years of losing, should the recent Chicago Cubs teams “expect” to just fail regardless what type of talent is on the roster... just because of historical data? Last year, when history tells you it NEVER happens, should UMBC should have just given up when the game started as a #16 seed against #1 seed UVA? It’s... historical data.

The data is largely based on randomness and bad luck. The draft can be a random crap shoot. And you can’t account for bad luck or stupidity of front offices. Statistically, at #2, you have the field to choose from after one selection. There will be future all stars, future superstars, future franchise players available. If you get to choose anyone except one, do your due diligence and homework, and go get one. Statistically, things are in your favor. And you SHOULD expect to get THAT type of player. The fact that many teams have failed to do so doesn’t change that they should have.

I get what you are saying in theory but if recent historical data suggests otherwise... Why would I ignore that? Sure guys like Kuzma and Mitchell will do better later in a draft than most top 5 guys in most drafts save the #1 pick... Still doesn't make me think the teams picking the #2 consensus pick in most drafts made a mistake especially when the #3 and #4 picks are trash and or injured like in the Russell draft for example.
I guess where we differ is in that draft despite me being hopeful for Russell I said it was a one star draft and even Kat looks shaky for a #1 overall. In most years you lucky to even find one Anthony Davis or Durant. If the rest are Beasley caliber players if I don't pick #1 expect NADA and happy if we can find a Kuzma or heck even Dejonte Murray most years after #1.

[Chris Fall]

I get what you are saying in theory but if recent historical data suggests otherwise... Why would I ignore that? Sure guys like Kuzma and Mitchell will do better later in a draft than most top 5 guys in most drafts save the #1 pick... Still doesn't make me think the teams picking the #2 consensus pick in most drafts made a mistake especially when the #3 and #4 picks are trash and or injured like in the Russell draft for example.
I guess where we differ is in that draft despite me being hopeful for Russell I said it was a one star draft and even Kat looks shaky for a #1 overall. In most years you lucky to even find one Anthony Davis or Durant. If the rest are Beasley caliber players if I don't pick #1 expect NADA and happy if we can find a Kuzma or heck even Dejonte Murray most years after #1.

Here’s the problem. Using “historical data” as some sort of statistical indicator only works when things are related. It might seem like NBA drafts are related, but they’re really not. Each draft consists of a different pool of draft candidates. The order from 1-30, even 1-14 in the lottery, varies every year where the same team is generally not selecting at the same position every time. It’s not an apples to apples relation using historical data from draft to draft. What it is is a superstitious phenomenon, coincidence when things from draft to draft suggest trends.

Heres my analogy.

Say I go to this one steakhouse for years and always order the filet mignon. And it’s superb. I’ve been there dozens and dozens of times and every time, it’s superb. So the next time I go there, my expectation is for a superb filet mignon. But say the steakhouse closes and the location is turned into a vegan restaurant. Same location. Still food.

Under your argument, the next time I go to this new vegan restaurant at the same location (#2 Draft Avenue), my expectations should be for a superb filet mignon... because of historical data.

Just doesn’t work that way with the #2 pick in the NBA draft. You’re talking different players and different teams with different draft evaluations. The historical data of the #2 pick over the last some 13 drafts is random and coincidental, not statistical or formulaic.

[Killakobe81]

Here’s the problem. Using “historical data” as some sort of statistical indicator only works when things are related. It might seem like NBA drafts are related, but they’re really not. Each draft consists of a different pool of draft candidates. The order from 1-30, even 1-14 in the lottery, varies every year where the same team is generally not selecting at the same position every time. It’s not an apples to apples relation using historical data from draft to draft. What it is is a superstitious phenomenon, coincidence when things from draft to draft suggest trends.

Heres my analogy.

Say I go to this one steakhouse for years and always order the filet mignon. And it’s superb. I’ve been there dozens and dozens of times and every time, it’s superb. So the next time I go there, my expectation is for a superb filet mignon. But say the steakhouse closes and the location is turned into a vegan restaurant. Same location. Still food.

Under your argument, the next time I go to this new vegan restaurant at the same location (#2 Draft Avenue), my expectations should be for a superb filet mignon... because of historical data.

Just doesn’t work that way with the #2 pick in the NBA draft. You’re talking different players and different teams with different draft evaluations. The historical data of the #2 pick over the last some 13 drafts is random and coincidental, not statistical or formulaic.

Not disputing your analysis it makes sense ...in theory.
Im not just focused on the #2 pick though.
Like you said (or someone else said) most drafts are crapshoots, random as fuck ...
Even Spurs arent flawless at it or even Golden state.
so what I am saying, is that unless you pass up durant for Oden or give extra picks to take Fultz over Tatum ...most teams just go with consensus picks.

I sure as hell after watching Beasley in college would have taken him #2 ...but he failed as a #2 pick. He has had an up and down (mostly down career) but not many were knocking him as the #2 overall. Easy to scoff now.

where Lakers went wrong was trying to go away from consensus with Lonzo ...
But Like isaid at the draft after Kat and even when Porzy was balling Russell was te right gamble ...
I would still take him longterm over Porzy even with Russ having some knee issues.
KP wont stay healthy I will be shocked if he does ...

[DAF86]

D-Lo showing that Kobe influence with a 10-26 shooting performance for 25 pts.

Dude tried to have a statement game for getting snubbed of the ASG, little did he know he was going against one of the best defensive guards in the World. :lol

White > Russell >>> Longo

[Mr. Body]

Russell is pretty close to stardom right now. He needs polish, but he's a total load to cover. Way better than any Laker beyond LeBron.