Democrats now pushing many of the same socialist policies that destroyed Venezuela

[ducks]

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/democrats-now-pushing-many-of-the-same-socialist-policies-that-destroyed-venezuela

yes it is fox but prove it is not true

[Pavlov]

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/democrats-now-pushing-many-of-the-same-socialist-policies-that-destroyed-venezuela

yes it is fox but prove it is not trueIts being a Fox opinion piece proves it's not true.

[ducks]

what is untrue about it

[Pavlov]

what is untrue about itThe US economy is nothing like Venezuela's.

Trump and the Republicans have already done more to explode the deficit/debt than these proposals.

[Nbadan]

To start off with the US has an economic blockade of Venezuela..

[Nbadan]

If the United States continues to borrow and print money, a strategy the Democrats are embracing

1 trillion dollar deficit by whom?

[apalisoc_9]

Spoke a venezuela immigrant that spoke better english than ducks.

[DarrinS]

Spoke a venezuela immigrant that spoke better english than ducks.

Irony

[apalisoc_9]

Irony

I dont make fun of immgirants or is against anti immigration. White twink euro on the other hand is massively against any fo of immigration that is brown, islamic, or black.

The boards team of anti immigrants are all immigrants themselves. Rashid or Juans descendantns have contrinuted more to the US than spurstucular, ducks, frostking.

[hater]

To start off with the US has an economic blockade of Venezuela..

Cant disagree

[Pavlov]

Cant disagreeWhy did Trump do that?

[Spurtacular]

The US economy is nothing like Venezuela's.

Trump and the Republicans have already done more to explode the deficit/debt than these proposals.

Debt bad now.

[Pavlov]

Debt bad now.Yeah, it's really stupid to run deficits after the recession is over and doubly stupid to blow up the deficit.

Thanks for agreeing with me.:tu

[Spurtacular]

Yeah, it's really stupid to run deficits after the recession is over and doubly stupid to blow up the deficit.

Thanks for agreeing with me.:tu

:lol At that subtle justification of Obama doubling the debt.

[Pavlov]

:lol At that subtle justification of Obama doubling the debt.Nothing subtle about it. Simple Keynesian orthodoxy.

Are you in favor of Trump's blowing up the debt?

Yes or no.

[Spurtacular]

Nothing subtle about it. Simple Keynesian orthodoxy.

Are you in favor of Trump's blowing up the debt?

Yes or no.

I am not in favor of Trump doing simple Keynesian tactics like Obama did.

[Isitjustme?]

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/democrats-now-pushing-many-of-the-same-socialist-policies-that-destroyed-venezuela

yes it is fox but prove it is not true

Good job ducks!!

1089644087291142144

[Pavlov]

I am not in favor of Trump doing simple Keynesian tactics like Obama did.Are you in favor of Trump's blowing up the debt?

Yes or no.

[Spurtacular]

Are you in favor of Trump's blowing up the debt?

Yes or no.

I'm not in favor of Trump following in Obama's irresponsible footsteps.

[Pavlov]

I'm not in favor of Trump following in Obama's irresponsible footsteps.
Are you in favor of Trump's blowing up the debt?

Yes or no.

[Spurtacular]

:cry Muh pigeonhole :cry

:lmao

[Pavlov]

:lmao:lol terrified of another simple yes or no question.

What a pussy.:rollin

[Spurtacular]

:lol terrified of another simple yes or no question.

What a pussy.:rollin

:lmao Justifying one president doubling the debt and then pretending to care about it.

[Pavlov]

:lmao Justifying one president doubling the debt and then pretending to care about it.But you like it when Trump does it.

What's the difference?

The only reason you like it is because Trump did it.

Nothing else.

:lol bootlick

[Spurtacular]

But you like it when Trump does it.

What's the difference?

The only reason you like it is because Trump did it.

Nothing else.

:lol bootlick

First off, I already answered that I'm not for Trump doing it. So, :lol at your sociopath truth.

Second off, the "crisis" was "overblown" or "made up" in 08 when Salty was going against Obama. In 19, it's cause for doubling the debt.

:lmao This decade's sociopath.

[Pavlov]

First off, I already answered that I'm not for Trump doing it. So, :lol at your sociopath truth.

Second off, the "crisis" was "overblown" or "made up" in 08 when Salty was going against Obama. In 19, it's cause for doubling the debt.

:lmao This decade's sociopath.
:lol made up

Is there a crisis on the border right now?

Yes or no.

[Spurtacular]

:lol made up

Is there a crisis on the border right now?

Yes or no.

There's a crisis of govt. that the border problem exacerbates.

[Pavlov]

There's a crisis of govt. that the border problem exacerbates.
Is there a crisis at the border?

Just answer yes or no.

It's very simple unless you're terrified.

[Spurtacular]

Is there a crisis at the border?

Just answer yes or no.

It's very simple unless you're terrified.

I'm very pleased with Trump's problem solving of the major problems at the border regardless of what tag you want to put on it.

[FrostKing]

Liberals love communism but hate Russians. Odd

[Pavlov]

I'm very pleased with Trump's problem solving of the major problems at the border regardless of what tag you want to put on it.You admit there is no crisis there:tu

[UnWantedTheory]

Is there a crisis at the border?

Just answer yes or no.

It's very simple unless you're terrified.
Of course not. A situation doesn't decline for over a decade and then all of a sudden become a crisis. It's political theater for retards.

[UnWantedTheory]

:lol At that subtle justification of Obama doubling the debt. You do realize he inherited a $1.4 trillion dollar deficit right? He cut it by roughly 2/3 by the end of his presidency. Trump is adding to it. Why do you people forget to take into account the Great Recession, the deficit O inherited, the Bush tax cuts becoming permanent, increased Social Secutiy/Medicare spending as the Baby Boomers retired, Congress's budgets, along with the Afghanistan and Iraq wars? The debt did double under O, but the deficit decreased and his initiatives only cost about a trillion. I don't see you incessantly bringing up how Reagan and the Bush's blew up our deficit/debt, nor do I see you attack Trump for doing the same, so why do you persist in attacking Obama?

[boutons_deux]

goddamn, Fox and its viewers are fucking stupid, ignorant fucks

VZ = Democratic policies? :lol

[Spurtacular]

You do realize he inherited a $1.4 trillion dollar deficit right? He cut it by roughly 2/3 by the end of his presidency. Trump is adding to it. Why do you people forget to take into account the Great Recession, the deficit O inherited, the Bush tax cuts becoming permanent, increased Social Secutiy/Medicare spending as the Baby Boomers retired, Congress's budgets, along with the Afghanistan and Iraq wars? The debt did double under O, but the deficit decreased and his initiatives only cost about a trillion. I don't see you incessantly bringing up how Reagan and the Bush's blew up our deficit/debt, nor do I see you attack Trump for doing the same, so why do you persist in attacking Obama?

OMG! How did a community organizer do all that!

:lmao @ your talking points.

[pgardn]

OMG! How did a community organizer do all that!

:lmao @ your talking points.

So you are a giant deficit is no problem red team member.

[UnWantedTheory]

OMG! How did a community organizer do all that!

:lmao @ your talking points.
Says the retard who tends to parrot partisan hacks, yet can't refute much of anything.

[Pavlov]

OMG! How did a community organizer do all that!I mean he was a constitutional law professor. This just called for some good judgment and knowledge. He's smarter than you at any rate.

[Spurtacular]

I mean he was a constitutional law professor. This just called for some good judgment and knowledge. He's smarter than you at any rate.

No.

[spurraider21]

alan derpowitz is on the case

[Pavlov]

No.No what?

[midnightpulp]

A high marginal tax rate isn't "socialism." If so, the idyllic 1950s that Trump's base wants to return to were socialism personified.

The core idea of socialism is to make the "means of production" community owned. In the modern day, this would translate into the government nationalizing Apple, Amazon, and every privately held corporation and thus making them a "free" public service for all. No one is proposing that. Socializing a service, like health care or education, doesn't equal "socialism." We have plenty of socialized services already, from police, fire, military, public school, infrastructure (roads), etc. For some reason, the right doesn't cry "socialism" when it comes to the military "protecting our freedoms" that is financed through tax dollars, but propose a financing of universal health care through the same means, and it's an idea straight out of Communist Russia. Fun fact: Eisenhower proposed a universal health care plan. Guess he was a Lenin loving Red, right?

[Pavlov]

A high marginal tax rate isn't "socialism." If so, the idyllic 1950s that Trump's base wants to return to were socialism personified.BUT TEH BLACKS COULDN'T DRINK FROM OUR WATER FOUNTAINS BACK THEN I'D PAY DOUBLE TAXES FOR DET TEH GOOD OL DAYS

[ElNono]

A high marginal tax rate isn't "socialism." If so, the idyllic 1950s that Trump's base wants to return to were socialism personified.

The core idea of socialism is to make the "means of production" community owned. In the modern day, this would translate into the government nationalizing Apple, Amazon, and every privately held corporation and thus making them a "free" public service for all. No one is proposing that. Socializing a service, like health care or education, doesn't equal "socialism." We have plenty of socialized services already, from police, fire, military, public school, infrastructure (roads), etc. For some reason, the right doesn't cry "socialism" when it comes to the military "protecting our freedoms" that is financed through tax dollars, but propose a financing of universal health care through the same means, and it's an idea straight out of Communist Russia. Fun fact: Eisenhower proposed a universal health care plan. Guess he was a Lenin loving Red, right?

That's communism.

[midnightpulp]

That's communism.

I'm assuming the government still exists as the primary controller and distributor of the means. As we know, communism is stateless.

[ElNono]

I'm assuming the government still exists as the primary controller and distributor of the means. As we know, communism is stateless.

Under communism ‘people’ share ownership of everything, with ‘people’ being an euphemism for government (since they’re elected by the people, get it?). That’s certainly a sham. Socialism is more of a middle ground: it doesn’t require government actually outright owning anything, but can and does impose certain heavy handed regulation in order to protect what’s known as a social contract. A lot of times, those rules go against capitalism or a free market.

Healthcare worldwide is a good example of that. Things like price controls on medicine and services are decidedly counter to capitalism or a free market, but they exist in order to fulfill a social contract (ie: guarantee affordable access to healthcare, no matter what’s your socioeconomic condition). It should be noted too that the US also have such arrangements in certain areas.

[midnightpulp]

Under communism ‘people’ share ownership of everything, with ‘people’ being an euphemism for government (since they’re elected by the people, get it?). That’s certainly a sham. Socialism is more of a middle ground: it doesn’t require government actually outright owning anything, but can and does impose certain heavy handed regulation in order to protect what’s known as a social contract. A lot of times, those rules go against capitalism or a free market.

Healthcare worldwide is a good example of that. Things like price controls on medicine and services are decidedly counter to capitalism or a free market, but they exist in order to fulfill a social contract (ie: guarantee affordable access to healthcare, no matter what’s your socioeconomic condition). It should be noted too that the US also have such arrangements in certain areas.

Marx's end goal for communism was a completely stateless society, where social hierarchies wouldn't exist. A social hierarchy would naturally form with the implementation of government. Indeed a sham, since any group of people doing anything, whether cooking in the kitchen to running a company, would naturally stratify into a hierarchy anyway, even without the existence of government. Marx thought socialism to be a step on the way to pure communism. I think your examples would be defined more as social democracy than socialism, in the Marxian tradition, as a key tenet of socialism is public ownership of the means of production.

[Blake]

Liberals love communism but hate Russians. Odd

Trump loves communism and loves the Russians.

[CosmicCowboy]

Border Patrol is apprehending 60,000 illegal entries a month. That's enough to fill the Alamodome every month that we then catch and release. Sure sounds like we have a problem.

[clambake]

Border Patrol is apprehending 60,000 illegal entries a month. That's enough to fill the Alamodome every month that we then catch and release. Sure sounds like we have a problem.

yep

[CosmicCowboy]

You do realize he inherited a $1.4 trillion dollar deficit right? He cut it by roughly 2/3 by the end of his presidency. Trump is adding to it. Why do you people forget to take into account the Great Recession, the deficit O inherited, the Bush tax cuts becoming permanent, increased Social Secutiy/Medicare spending as the Baby Boomers retired, Congress's budgets, along with the Afghanistan and Iraq wars? The debt did double under O, but the deficit decreased and his initiatives only cost about a trillion. I don't see you incessantly bringing up how Reagan and the Bush's blew up our deficit/debt, nor do I see you attack Trump for doing the same, so why do you persist in attacking Obama?

So Obama was responsible for sequestration? :lmao

might want to check your talking points.

[Blake]

Border Patrol is apprehending 60,000 illegal entries a month. That's enough to fill the Alamodome every month that we then catch and release. Sure sounds like we have a problem.

https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/southwest-border-apprehensions-final.jpg

Were you begging for a wall back then?

Doubtful. Might want to check your talking points.

[Pavlov]

Border Patrol is apprehending 60,000 illegal entries a month.Where are they apprehended?

[CosmicCowboy]

Where are they apprehended?

probably about 30,000 different places. Why does it matter, CHUMP?

[CosmicCowboy]

https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/southwest-border-apprehensions-final.jpg

Were you begging for a wall back then?

Doubtful. Might want to check your talking points.

Yeah, you stupid dipshit. I have always wanted real border security and an end to illegal immigration.

[Pavlov]

probably about 30,000 different places. Why does it matter, CHUMP?Were any apprehended at ports of entry?

[koriwhat]

Marx's end goal for communism was a completely stateless society, where social hierarchies wouldn't exist. A social hierarchy would naturally form with the implementation of government. Indeed a sham, since any group of people doing anything, whether cooking in the kitchen to running a company, would naturally stratify into a hierarchy anyway, even without the existence of government. Marx thought socialism to be a step on the way to pure communism. I think your examples would be defined more as social democracy than socialism, in the Marxian tradition, as a key tenet of socialism is public ownership of the means of production.

both are fucking dumbass ideas that do nothing but ruin a nation(s).

[CosmicCowboy]

Were any apprehended at ports of entry?

Doesn't say. Not that it matters.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/u14651/SWB%20FY19TD_NOV%20Graphic%20002.jpg

[Trill Clinton]

Where can I find information on who is hiring all of the illegals? I had a guy come fix my tub skirt and he didn't speak a lick of English. Once again, if these businesses would stop hiring illegals they'd stop coming.

[CosmicCowboy]

Where can I find information on who is hiring all of the illegals? I had a guy come fix my tub skirt and he didn't speak a lick of English. Once again, if these businesses would stop hiring illegals they'd stop coming.

I agree Everify should be mandatory and employers should be fined.

[Trill Clinton]

I agree Everify should be mandatory and employers should be fined.

Loss of license and six figure fines instead of $250-$10,000 would be a start. A $250 fine is a drop in a bucket and if this is a crises then treat ALL parties equally and send a message.

[CosmicCowboy]

Loss of license and six figure fines instead of $250-$10,000 would be a start. A $250 fine is a drop in a bucket and if this is a crises then treat ALL parties equally and send a message.

It should still be relative. Your average tree trimmer crew boss shouldn't pay the same as Tyson foods but both should hurt.

[Blake]

Yeah, you stupid dipshit. I have always wanted real border security and an end to illegal immigration.

Doubtful you ever begged for a Trump type wall.

[Pavlov]

Doesn't say. Not that it matters.Of course it matters where they are stopped.

[Blake]

Of course it matters where they are stopped.

The stops at the wall check points don't count!

[ducks]

No one should give a penny to the illegals
If they did they would not come
Giving them free access to hospitals are wrong
Stop the hand outs and stop employing them !

[ducks]

Of course it matters where they are stopped.
Why they need to be stopped at ports and every damm inch of USA soil

[ducks]

Be hard on some here but the greater good for all the people trying to get here in the USA
They want trump to be their president !

[ducks]

The stops at the wall check points don't count!
Put walls around then do not need to employee as many and be much better effective. You should try to be one with no walls and not be allowed to shot at them even when they shot at you

[Blake]

Put walls around then do not need to employee as many and be much better effective. You should try to be one with no walls and not be allowed to shot at them even when they shot at you

Because walls will maintain themselves! For cheap!

[ducks]

They last a long time if you build them right
And when they neeed repair you hire construction people not board patrol people

[ElNono]

Marx's end goal for communism was a completely stateless society, where social hierarchies wouldn't exist. A social hierarchy would naturally form with the implementation of government. Indeed a sham, since any group of people doing anything, whether cooking in the kitchen to running a company, would naturally stratify into a hierarchy anyway, even without the existence of government. Marx thought socialism to be a step on the way to pure communism. I think your examples would be defined more as social democracy than socialism, in the Marxian tradition, as a key tenet of socialism is public ownership of the means of production.

Right, that’s why you can have a ‘social democracy’, whereas communism is in itself a form of government (Marx would say it’s the ultimate expression of democracy, since everyone would be theoretically equal, although it wouldn’t be a representative democracy).

[midnightpulp]

It should still be relative. Your average tree trimmer crew boss shouldn't pay the same as Tyson foods but both should hurt.

Why not make the path to citizenship easier for working and behaved illegal immigrants? The small trimming business probably can't afford to pay American workers the wages they want (or even find willing Americans to do the work. Do you really think a modern teenager raised on nothing but technology who's never had a job is going to want to trim trees in the sun for 8 hours, even as a summer job?) Is the reduced labor cost not a win-win all around?

[spurraider21]

Why not make the path to citizenship easier for working and behaved illegal immigrants? The small trimming business probably can't afford to pay American workers the wages they want (or even find willing Americans to do the work. Do you really think a modern teenager raised on nothing but technology who's never had a job is going to want to trim trees in the sun for 8 hours, even as a summer job?) Is the reduced labor cost not a win-win all around?
well a pathway to legal status would imply legal wages, tbh

[baseline bum]

I agree Everify should be mandatory and employers should be fined.

They should be criminally prosecuted.

[midnightpulp]

well a pathway to legal status would imply legal wages, tbh

Even if the wages were raised to legal levels, immigrants would still be the ones showing up. Here in our California, they had problems finding fruit pickers even when the companies were offering a good wage with benefits. https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/

[baseline bum]

No one should give a penny to the illegals
If they did they would not come
Giving them free access to hospitals are wrong
Stop the hand outs and stop employing them !

Your president employs them

[midnightpulp]

They should be criminally prosecuted.

It's always funny to read the cognitive dissonance with this from conservatives. "Build the wall! Deport all illegals!"

How about we start prosecuting businesses that hire them? Reduce the incentive for them to come here, they won't come here. Slap on the wrists fines won't do shit.

"….."

[CosmicCowboy]

Why not make the path to citizenship easier for working and behaved illegal immigrants? The small trimming business probably can't afford to pay American workers the wages they want (or even find willing Americans to do the work. Do you really think a modern teenager raised on nothing but technology who's never had a job is going to want to trim trees in the sun for 8 hours, even as a summer job?) Is the reduced labor cost not a win-win all around?
I am all for a pathway to citizenship. Register for a work visa, get a job, pay taxes, learn English, keep out of trouble for ten years and I would gladly welcome them as a citizen.

[midnightpulp]

I am all for a pathway to citizenship. Register for a work visa, get a job, pay taxes, learn English, keep out of trouble for ten years and I would gladly welcome them as a citizen.

Why not replicate the Ellis Island process? One of the problems with the modern path to citizenship is how convoluted, bureaucratic, and expensive the process is.

https://www.history.com/news/immigrants-ellis-island-short-processing-time

What irritates me about the rhetoric your typical Fox News talking heads spew on this matter is the hypocrisy. So it was okay for their ancestors displaced by a potato famine, war, persecution or whatever to emigrate here, but not okay for modern immigrants? I know the answer is: Well, my ancestors did it legally, but again, the process wasn't as difficult as it is today. Some poor-as-shit Honduran with a family to feed can't wait around for the red tape to clear and doesn't have the income to hire the likes of immigration lawyers.

Some other counterpoints are the supposed increase in crime they bring (disproven: http://www.ronunz.org/2010/01/26/the-myth-of-hispanic-crime/) and their straining of social services. I do agree social services shouldn't be offered until full citizenship is acquired. Furthermore, when all those Irish and Italians were coming over here on boats, the nativists were saying the exact same things.

I think the immigration problem has been needlessly overcomplicated by both sides in order to score political points. We were fine for a century-and-a-half with a relatively loose immigration policy. Your plan sounds fine if that granting of a work visa isn't a clusterfuck.

[CosmicCowboy]

Why not replicate the Ellis Island process? One of the problems with the modern path to citizenship is how convoluted, bureaucratic, and expensive the process is.

https://www.history.com/news/immigrants-ellis-island-short-processing-time

What irritates me about the rhetoric your typical Fox News talking heads spew on this matter is the hypocrisy. So it was okay for their ancestors displaced by a potato famine, war, persecution or whatever to emigrate here, but not okay for modern immigrants? I know the answer is: Well, my ancestors did it legally, but again, the process wasn't as difficult as it is today. Some poor-as-shit Honduran with a family to feed can't wait around for the red tape to clear and doesn't have the income to hire the likes of immigration lawyers.

Some other counterpoints are the supposed increase in crime they bring (disproven: http://www.ronunz.org/2010/01/26/the-myth-of-hispanic-crime/) and their straining of social services. I do agree social services shouldn't be offered until full citizenship is acquired. Furthermore, when all those Irish and Italians were coming over here on boats, the nativists were saying the exact same things.

I think the immigration problem has been needlessly overcomplicated by both sides in order to score political points. We were fine for a century-and-a-half with a relatively loose immigration policy. Your plan sounds fine if that granting of a work visa isn't a clusterfuck.

The Ellis Island process worked fine when there wasn't a multi level social safety net. We will let you in but you are responsible for taking care of yourself and your family. The government isn't going to do it.

[Brazil]

comparing Venezuela policies with democrats social policies... :lmao

dear god, how one can be so fucking stupid ?

In almost every country in the world, US democrats would be considered at the right and some times at the far right... I know I should not pay attention to an imbecile like ducks but his stupidity still triggers me like the rest of ST red necks crew.. dear god go travel or something

[midnightpulp]

The Ellis Island process worked fine when there wasn't a multi level social safety net. We will let you in but you are responsible for taking care of yourself and your family. The government isn't going to do it.

I don't have an objection to that.

[MultiTroll]

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/democrats-now-pushing-many-of-the-same-socialist-policies-that-destroyed-venezuela

yes it is fox but prove it is not true
Excellent ideas:

the creation of a new Office of Drug Manufacturing, which would give the federal government power to manufacture generic drugs. Other Democrats have called for price controls on drugs.

put government in control, either directly or indirectly, of most of the energy industry and mandate everyone use renewable energy sources like wind and solar by 2030.

[boutons_deux]

Corporate welfare for the MIC and extraction of resources around the planet is more important than
well-being of Americans

The Endless Cost of Washington’s Lost Wars

American forces are engaged in an open-ended war on terror in 80 countries,

costing nearly $6 trillion since 2001

https://www.thenation.com/article/washington-wars-on-terror-military-pentagon/

... and none of the BigCorp's wars are making America safer, but exactly the opposite.

[boutons_deux]

Schultz Walks Back Denunciation Of Medicare For All As ‘Un-American’
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/schultz-walks-back-denunciation-medicare-for-all?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tpm-news+%28TPMNews%29

What he really meant was that MfA is unCapitalistic.

[boutons_deux]

Trump Threatens Military Action in Venezuela: A Closer Look

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PZw-11rmyY