Sorry Scott, GAO Report Confirms That Kerry Likely Won 2004 Election

[Nbadan]

Powerful Government Accounting Office report confirms key 2004 stolen election findings
by Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman
October 26, 2005


As a legal noose appears to be tightening around the Bush/Cheney/Rove inner circle, a shocking government report shows the floor under the legitimacy of their alleged election to the White House is crumbling.

The latest critical confirmation of key indicators that the election of 2004 was stolen comes in an extremely powerful, penetrating report from the General Accounting Office that has gotten virtually no mainstream media coverage.

The government's lead investigative agency is known for its general incorruptibility and its through, in-depth analyses. Its concurrence with assertions widely dismissed as "conspiracy theories" adds crucial new weight to the case that Team Bush has no legitimate business being in the White House.

Nearly a year ago, senior Judiciary Committee Democrat John Conyers (D-MI) asked the GAO to investigate electronic voting machines as they were used during the November 2, 2004 presidential election. The request came amidst widespread complaints in Ohio and elsewhere that often shocking irregularities defined their performance.

According to CNN, the U.S. House Judiciary Committee received "more than 57,000 complaints" following Bush's alleged re-election. Many such concerns were memorialized under oath in a series of sworn statements and affidavits in public hearings and investigations conducted in Ohio by the Free Press and other election protection organizations.

The non-partisan GAO report has now found that, "some of [the] concerns about electronic voting machines have been realized and have caused problems with recent elections, resulting in the loss and miscount of votes."

The United States is the only major democracy that allows private partisan corporations to secretly count and tabulate the votes with proprietary non-transparent software. Rev. Jesse Jackson, among others, has asserted that "public elections must not be conducted on privately-owned machines." The CEO of one of the most crucial suppliers of electronic voting machines, Warren O'Dell of Diebold, pledged before the 2004 campaign to deliver Ohio and thus the presidency to George W. Bush.

Bush's official margin of victory in Ohio was just 118,775 votes out of more than 5.6 million cast. Election protection advocates argue that O'Dell's statement still stands as a clear sign of an effort, apparently successful, to steal the White House.

Among other things, the GAO confirms that:

1. Some electronic voting machines "did not encrypt cast ballots or system audit logs, thus making it possible to alter them without detection." In other words, the GAO now confirms that electronic voting machines provided an open door to flip an entire vote count. More than 800,000 votes were cast in Ohio on electronic voting machines, some seven times Bush's official margin of victory.

2. "It is easy to alter a file defining how a ballot appears, making it possible for someone to vote for one candidate and actually be recorded as voting for an entirely different candidate." Numerous sworn statements and affidavits assert that this did happen in Ohio 2004.

3. "Falsifying election results without leaving any evidence of such an action by using altered memory cards" can easily be done, according to the GAO.

4. The GAO also confirms that "access to the voting network was easily compromised because not all digital recording electronic voting systems (DREs) had supervisory functions password-protected, so access to one machine provided access to the whole network." This critical finding confirms that rigging the 2004 vote did not require a "widespread conspiracy" but rather the cooperation of a very small number of operatives with the power to tap into the networked machines and thus change large numbers of votes at will. With 800,000 votes cast on electronic machines in Ohio, flipping the number needed to give Bush 118,775 could be easily done by just one programmer.

5. Access "to the voting network was also compromised by repeated use of the same user IDs combined with easily guessed passwords," says the GAO. So even relatively amateur hackers could have gained access to and altered the Ohio vote tallies.

6. "The locks protecting access to the system were easily picked and keys were simple to copy," says the GAO, meaning, again, getting into the system was an easy matter.

7. "One DRE model was shown to have been networked in such a rudimentary fashion that a power failure on one machine would cause the entire network to fail," says the GAO, re-emphasizing the fragility of the system on which the Presidency of the United States was decided.

8. "GAO identified further problems with the security protocols and background screening practices for vendor personnel," confirming still more easy access to the system.

In essence, the GAO study makes it clear that no bank, grocery store or mom & pop chop shop would dare operate its business on a computer system as flimsy, fragile and easily manipulated as the one on which the 2004 election turned.

The GAO findings are particularly damning when set in the context of an election run in Ohio by a Secretary of State simultaneously working as co-chair of the Bush-Cheney campaign. Far from what election theft skeptics have long asserted, the GAO findings confirm that the electronic network on which 800,000 Ohio votes were cast was vulnerable enough to allow a a tiny handful of operatives -- or less -- to turn the whole vote count using personal computers operating on relatively simple software.

The GAO documentation flows alongside other crucial realities surrounding the 2004 vote count. For example:

# The exit polls showed Kerry winning in Ohio, until an unexplained last minute shift gave the election to Bush. Similar definitive shifts also occurred in Iowa, Nevada and New Mexico, a virtual statistical impossibility.

# A few weeks prior to the election, an unauthorized former ES&S voting machine company employee, was caught on the ballot-making machine in Auglaize County

# Election officials in Mahoning County now concede that at least 18 machines visibly transferred votes for Kerry to Bush. Voters who pushed Kerry's name saw Bush's name light up, again and again, all day long. Officials claim the problems were quickly solved, but sworn statements and affidavits say otherwise. They confirm similar problems in Franklin County (Columbus). Kerry's margins in both counties were suspiciously low.

# A voting machine in Mahoning County recorded a negative 25 million votes for Kerry. The problem was allegedly fixed.

# In Gahanna Ward 1B, at a fundamentalist church, a so-called "electronic transfer glitch" gave Bush nearly 4000 extra votes when only 638 people voted at that polling place. The tally was allegedly corrected, but remains infamous as the "loaves and fishes" vote count.

# In Franklin County, dozens of voters swore under oath that their vote for Kerry faded away on the DRE without a paper trail.

# In Miami County, at 1:43am after Election Day, with the county's central tabulator reporting 100% of the vote - 19,000 more votes mysteriously arrived; 13,000 were for Bush at the same percentage as prior to the additional votes, a virtual statistical impossibility.

# In Cleveland, large, entirely implausible vote totals turned up for obscure third party candidates in traditional Democratic African-American wards. Vote counts in neighboring wards showed virtually no votes for those candidates, with 90% going instead for Kerry.

# Prior to one of Blackwell's illegitimate "show recounts," technicians from Triad voting machine company showed up unannounced at the Hocking County Board of Elections and removed the computer hard drive.

# In response to official information requests, Shelby and other counties admit to having discarded key records and equipment before any recount could take place.

# In a conference call with Rev. Jackson, Attorney Cliff Arnebeck, Attorney Bob Fitrakis and others, John Kerry confirmed that he lost every precinct in New Mexico that had a touchscreen voting machine. The losses had no correlation with ethnicity, social class or traditional party affiliation---only with the fact that touchscreen machines were used.

# In a public letter, Rep. Conyers has stated that "by and large, when it comes to a voting machine, the average voter is getting a lemon - the Ford Pinto of voting technology. We must demand better."

But the GAO report now confirms that electronic voting machines as deployed in 2004 were in fact perfectly engineered to allow a very small number of partisans with minimal computer skills and equipment to shift enough votes to put George W. Bush back in the White House.

Given the growing body of evidence, it appears increasingly clear that's exactly what happened.

The Free Press (http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1529)


Here (http://www.bradblog.com/Docs/GAOReport_ElectionSecurity_102105.pdf) is a link to the complete GAO report.

Why does the GAO hate America?

[gtownspur]

If the NYT hasnt run with this there is probably a lot of wholes to this.. otherwise this seems interesting..

[AFE7FATMAN]

I wouldn't be one bit surprised

[jochhejaam]

Your President is George Bush so it's a moot point.

[SpursWoman]

Oh, whatthefuck ever. :lmao

[Useruser666]

It's a sad say when Dan has to trust one government agency to dis another. :lol

[Extra Stout]

With all the things going wrong with the Bush Administration, and the golden opportunity for the left to capitalize on it, why oh why do they insist upon focusing on the crazy conspiracy-theory moonbat shit?

Are y'all more interested in coming up with crazy ways to explain away your defeats than you are in um, I don't know, actually winning?

I don't know, I'm thinking, given how awful the Republicans are looking right now, one might think your side might be straightening your ties and saying, "Hey, look at us! We're responsible, sane, and trustworthy! Give us a shot at running the government!"

Instead, the more the GOP fucks up, the more we see "BUSHITLER STOLEN ELECTION WAR REPUGS NO BLOOD FOR OIL CINDY SHEEHAN YEEAAAARRGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!" it's almost as if you're afraid that you might actually get the opportunity to have your side win and fuck it up too.

Are y'all trying to marginalize yourselves?

[SA210]

I wouldn't put anything past Bush and his friends. We already know he's an idiot.

[Extra Stout]

I wouldn't put anything past Bush and his friends. We already know he's an idiot.So he's an idiot, and yet at the same time, he and his friends successfully executed an evil-genius plot to steal an election undetected?

[SA210]

So he's an idiot, and yet at the same time, he and his friends successfully executed an evil-genius plot to steal an election undetected?

Bush is an idiot regardless, and evil,
But he did steal another election that was detected and got away with it.

[SpursWoman]

mmmmmKay. :rolleyes :lol

[Oh, Gee!!]

Rasho will burn for this!

[Extra Stout]

Bush is an idiot regardless, and evil,
But he did steal another election that was detected and got away with it.

What does that say about the people who voted for Kerry, and are accepting the results? What kind of idiots are they?

And if you people really believe that the government has been subverted through a coup, and all you do about is bitch about it on conspiracy websites and sports forums, what kind of people are you? Idiots? Pussies?

I mean, either start an insurrection and put your blood on the line, or shut the fuck up. You're not helping anybody. Nobody except your fellow tinfoil-hat travelers believes you. All you do is make it easier for your political opponents.

[SA210]

Well, I didn't really call you any names, but your so upset about Bushs' severe integrity issues that you have to start name calling. I called bush an idiot, well because he really is one.

And I didn't say he stole the last election, I'm just saying I wouldn't put it past him, because regardless of how you want to insult me or others, he did steal the 2000 election, fuss or not.

[SpursWoman]

Well, I didn't really call you any names, but your so upset about Bushs' severe integrity issues that you have to start name calling. I called bush an idiot, well because he really is one.

And I didn't say he stole the last election, I'm just saying I wouldn't put it past him, because regardless of how you want to insult me or others, he did steal the 2000 election, fuss or not.

He's an idiot that according to you little tin foil hat guys repeated pulls off the most intricate scams imaginable under constant public scrutiny.

:lol

[Extra Stout]

Well, I didn't really call you any names, but your so upset about Bushs' severe integrity issues that you have to start name calling. I called bush an idiot, well because he really is one.

And I didn't say he stole the last election, I'm just saying I wouldn't put it past him, because regardless of how you want to insult me or others, he did steal the 2000 election, fuss or not.

Well, somebody needs to call y'all names and start slapping you around a little bit. One would figure if you disliked Bush so much, you would like to see his party lose Congress in 2006. The GOP has become so incompetent that it is all but handing power over to the Democrats gift-wrapped on a silver platter.

But see, when all the leftie media does is rehash the same old "BUSH IS STUPID EVIL HITLER WAR REPUGS STOLEN ELECTION CHIMP GREEDY OIL HALLIBURTON CHENEY SPIN POLICE STATE GO INSURGENTS GO YEEEEEEEAARRRGGGHHH!!!! over and over again, with no coherent message, it makes it easy for the right to say, "Yeah, we're not doing so well, but whaddya gonna do about it? You gonna vote for those freaks? Didn't think so. Here, have another nice highway project. China's paying!"

Given my disgust with the current state of the GOP, it would be nice to have a legitimate opposition party that actually was enough of an electoral threat to keep the GOP honest a little bit. Instead, the Dems are trapped because their left-grassroots are so unhinged and totally fucked in the head that they scare normal people away, but they hold enough of the purse strings that Dem politicians dare not cut them loose.

So the Repubs can do whatever they feel like, knowing there's nothing to hold them accountable, because the Democrats are such a disaster they have no chance of kicking the bloated GOP estbalishment out of power anytime soon.

So, every time you indulge in intellectual laziness and repeat a mindless, useless left-wing talking point that communicates nothing but frustration and denial, you make a Halliburton executive breathe a little bit easier.

[SA210]

He's an idiot that according to you little tin foil hat guys repeated pulls off the most intricate scams imaginable under constant public scrutiny.

:lol

The 2000 election was under public scrutiny, but he got away with it. Repeating it or not, it's the facts.

[Spurminator]

"BUSHITLER STOLEN ELECTION WAR REPUGS NO BLOOD FOR OIL CINDY SHEEHAN YEEAAAARRGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!"

:lol

Gold.

[Yonivore]

I remain amazed at the apparent inability of the Left to decide whether President Bush is an evil genius or a bumbling dolt.

C'mon guys, he can't be both. Pick one and let's move forward.

[SpursWoman]

But see, when all the leftie media does is rehash the same old "BUSH IS STUPID EVIL HITLER WAR REPUGS STOLEN ELECTION CHIMP GREEDY OIL HALLIBURTON CHENEY SPIN POLICE STATE GO INSURGENTS GO YEEEEEEEAARRRGGGHHH!!!! over and over again, with no coherent message, it makes it easy for the right to say, "Yeah, we're not doing so well, but whaddya gonna do about it? You gonna vote for those freaks? Didn't think so. Here, have another nice highway project. China's paying!"


:tu :lol :lol

[Oh, Gee!!]

I remain amazed at the apparent inability of the Left to decide whether President Bush is an evil genius or a bumbling dolt.

C'mon guys, he can't be both. Pick one and let's move forward.

He can be a puppet

[boutons]

"evil genius or a bumbling dolt"

is this Repub-designed ballot, of false choices?

He certainly isn't genius of any polarity. He's certainly ignorant. As to whether he's evil...

If the ignorance is a genetic limitation, lack of capacity (perhaps induced by long-term substance abuse and ignorant hand on the cradle), then the evil is more in the Repubs who knowingly put him up as malleable, safe tool, a name-branded robot, whom they could outwit and bamboozle into their agenda of enriching themselves while destroying the US govt.

I expect he's not quite as dumb as he demonstrates, but is willfully and completely unserious and uninterested in the world, in ideas, in governing and running his administration responsibly. ie, he's a fucking joker of a privileged slacker tourist through life. Then he shares fully in his own chosen evilness along with the evil assholes who put him into office.

[Nbadan]

With all the things going wrong with the Bush Administration, and the golden opportunity for the left to capitalize on it, why oh why do they insist upon focusing on the crazy conspiracy-theory moonbat shit?

Are y'all more interested in coming up with crazy ways to explain away your defeats than you are in um, I don't know, actually winning?

I don't know, I'm thinking, given how awful the Republicans are looking right now, one might think your side might be straightening your ties and saying, "Hey, look at us! We're responsible, sane, and trustworthy! Give us a shot at running the government!"

Instead, the more the GOP fucks up, the more we see "BUSHITLER STOLEN ELECTION WAR REPUGS NO BLOOD FOR OIL CINDY SHEEHAN YEEAAAARRGGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!" it's almost as if you're afraid that you might actually get the opportunity to have your side win and fuck it up too.

Are y'all trying to marginalize yourselves?

A conspiracy theory is based on mostly fabrications or urban legend with very little if any physical or empirical theoretical proof. When something is proven beyond a reasonable doubt and accepted as truth by the majority, it ceases just being a conspiracy theory. For instance, for years it was a conspiracy theory that Roosevelt knew the Japanese were going to attack the Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor, now so much evidence has been presented to confirm this theory that it is accepted as truth in certain circles.

I think the question Republicans have to ask themselves today is who is really being marginalized by these findings? Those who accept the findings of a inter-governmental agency as truth, or those who simply dismiss these findings as contrived bullshit because it proves what the opposition has been saying all along?

The GAO is the ideal agency to investigate the 04 election because it is beyond partisan politics. If these findings were announced by Moveon.org they would not have half the legitimacy they have today. These findings further confirm the theory that exit poll data having Kerry winning 51% to W's 49% was not wrong.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

What's sad is that just because you feel the conservative regime looks out for your interests the most you are totally incapable of accepting the fact that these machines are subject to fraud much more easily than actual paper-documented votes.

Wtf's up with all the lol smileys? Are you really that brainwashed to think that a decent hacker could not hack these machines?

[Dos]

:)

[Cant_Be_Faded]

What does that say about the people who voted for Kerry, and are accepting the results? What kind of idiots are they?


It says that no matter who we write to, no matter who we try to talk to about it or get thigns fixed, theres always 1 spurswomen/useruser/jochchhejaam/clandestino for every 1 of us

so it makes it seem like a stupid opinionated debate
just like this thread

[mookie2001]

no no
thats why theyre electronic now
TO MAKE IT SAFER

safer
safe
safety
make YOU safer
more secure

[Extra Stout]

A conspiracy theory is based on mostly fabrications or urban legend with very little if any physical or empharical theoretical proof. When something is proven beyond a reasonable doubt and accepted as truth by the majority, it ceases just being a conspiracy theory. I think the question Republicans have to ask themselves today is, who is really being marginalized here? Those who accept the findings of inter-governmental agency as truth, or those who simply dismiss these findings as contrived bullshit because it proves what the opposition has been saying all along?

The GAO is the ideal agency to investigate the 04 election because it is beyond partisan politics. If these findings were announced by Moveon.org they would not have half the legitimacy they have today. These findings further confirm the theory that exit poll data having Kerry winning 51% to W's 49% was not wrong.

The GAO report says that electronic voting is vulnerable. I agree. It does not say that Bush stole the 2004 election. There is zero evidence of that.

Wacky unhinged lunatics say that Bush stole the 2004 election. It is a conspiracy theory.

So yes, you are continuing to marginalize yourself. I don't think you know how to stop before you go off the deep end and take everything to the wild moonbat conclusion.

In fact, you are marginalizing legitimate concerns about electronic voting. I would love to see reforms that improve security. I would love to see voting machines print out an anonymous copy of the ballot I fill out, which can be placed in a ballot box to be used for recounts. Other countries already do this.

But when all these concerns get framed in same old lefty "BUSHITLER STOLE ELECTION DIEBOLD NEOCON CABAL OIL OIL OIL FASCISM REPUG YEEEAAARRRGHHHH!!!" rambling, normal people dismiss it as ranting and raving. It gets tuned out.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I swear, when people start to support conservatism, the hormones released the brain while someone is avidly "conserving" must also serve to block synapses in the brain's "bull shit detection" region

[Dos]

why would a hacker want to change to vote in bush's favor.. why not kerry.. ?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

why would a hacker want to change to vote in bush's favor.. why not kerry.. ?


That is not the right question to ask and only serves to further my point of how a legitimate issue becomes a stupid opinionated debate

[mookie2001]

because one usually changes something thats not going to happen?

[SpursWoman]

You'd be wise not to label me, because about 85% of the time you'd be wrong...


And sorry, this is exactly what a lot of liberals look like to some of us who honestly could go either way if given a decent choice. (and User isn't a Republican, btw.) :lol

I'm not quite sure that's the image they are shooting for, but that's what they have become:


But see, when all the leftie media does is rehash the same old "BUSH IS STUPID EVIL HITLER WAR REPUGS STOLEN ELECTION CHIMP GREEDY OIL HALLIBURTON CHENEY SPIN POLICE STATE GO INSURGENTS GO YEEEEEEEAARRRGGGHHH!!!! over and over again, with no coherent message, it makes it easy for the right to say, "Yeah, we're not doing so well, but whaddya gonna do about it? You gonna vote for those freaks? Didn't think so. Here, have another nice highway project. China's paying!"


That was hysterical. :lol

[boutons]

"why would a hacker want to change to vote in bush's favor"

so dubya would win?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

When its all said and done no matter how much you people think you are "conserving" things, nothing will change the fuckin fact that a paper-documented vote is safer and less subject to voter fraud.

None of the partisan shit you people say will ever change that.

[mookie2001]

I don't think you can take this for anything more than a theory or a weird statistic

but electronic voting is total bullshit
total
user and I talked about this in like march
theyre electronic ballots
but they have paper backups...
which come from the electronic results
but the results are electronic?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

This was in the original post, in case some of you quickly decided to respond just cuz it was NBADan:

"The United States is the only major democracy that allows private partisan corporations to secretly count and tabulate the votes with proprietary non-transparent software."

Think about that for just 15 seconds, just try.

[Dos]

ok how do you stop voter fraud .. quit bitching about it and give me some solutions..

I mean hell they found dead people voting in chicago before... it's been going on forever in this country.... so how the hell do you stop it.. without infringing on someones civil liberties....

[Extra Stout]

why would a hacker want to change to vote in bush's favor.. why not kerry.. ?
Well then shouldn't the GAO's findings disturb you then?

See, if Nbadan and the other lefties knew how to communicate, they'd realize that, hey, right-wingers should be concerned about this too, because all it would take is a Daily KOS diarist with some computer savvy to get Che Guevara elected to Congress.

But noooooooo... immediately they have to flip out and go to "SEE WE TOLD YOU BUSH STOLE THE ELECTION FASCISM CHIMPY BLOOD FOR OIL HITLER YEAAAARRGGHHHH!!!!" and normal people respond with, "Oh, look, there's another lunatic lefty foaming at the mouth."

Meanwhile, the GOP Congress keeps swiping their Bank of China Platinum credit card and sentencing our grandkids to work in a model car assembly plant or a rice-grain calligraphy shop.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

ok how do you stop voter fraud .. quit bitching about it and give me some solutions..

I mean hell they found dead people voting in chicago before... it's been going on forever in this country.... so how the hell do you stop it.. without infringing on someones civil liberties....


Fraud will always be a threat, but moving from paper to electronic is moving in the wrong direction.

Step 1 would obviously be to go back to paper...

[SpursWoman]

When its all said and done no matter how much you people think you are "conserving" things, nothing will change the fuckin fact that a paper-documented vote is safer and less subject to voter fraud.

None of the partisan shit you people say will ever change that.


I agree...but it's kind of like the little boy that cried wolf. SOooooooo many conspiracy theories that are utterly ridiculous are perpetuated by the left that the legitimate ones get buried in the bullshit.

What I find kind of funny about this one is not that there is a potential case of fraud, of course methods like that are highly susceptible to it, but that even if there were...the results could still have gone either way..you can't prove one way or the other what votes should have been or which ones were actually valid. Or are dead people voting from their graves considered to be legitimate these days? I think it all evens out in the end.

I'm an accountant, I know all about the necessity of a paper trail. :lol

[Hook Dem]

This was in the original post, in case some of you quickly decided to respond just cuz it was NBADan:

"The United States is the only major democracy that allows private partisan corporations to secretly count and tabulate the votes with proprietary non-transparent software."

Think about that for just 15 seconds, just try.
Paper is cheaper than tin foil but looks like you opted for the latter!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I dont think evening out in the end is a good excuse to ignore it though, because by 'the end' we're talking like ~10 elections or so, and thats a long time for things to get fucked up

[Dos]

and as soon as some tries to clean it up.. the left calls foul..

Mon Oct 24,11:53 PM ET
Protestors chanted outside a congressional hearing in Milwaukee Monday.

ADVERTISEMENT

The hearing was to discuss voting irregularities in Wisconsin in 2004's presidential election.

Green Bay Congressman Mark Green had asked for the hearing after state auditors recently found 105 instances of improper or fraudulent voting in 5 Wisconsin cities including Milwaukee and Madison.

the protestors oppose proposals requiring voters to show photo identification before voting.

[SpursWoman]

I dont think evening out in the end is a good excuse to ignore it though, because by 'the end' we're talking like ~10 elections or so, and thats a long time for things to get fucked up



Did I say it should be ignored? There will always be fraud no matter how much you do to protect the process ... but that one is pretty huge. Just don't assume that because there is fraud automatically makes it REPUBLICAN fraud. There are cheating bastards on both sides.

[Hook Dem]

"the protestors oppose proposals requiring voters to show photo identification before voting."..................................Thats because their rights are being violated to throw an election! :lol

[Extra Stout]

Here's a conspiracy theory for you:

I think all these wacky left-wing websites are run by the Bush/Cheney/Halliburton cabal. I think Cindy Sheehan is a secret Repug operative.

It makes perfect sense, right? Ordinarily, when a party gets in the position the Republicans are in, the public gets disgruntled and votes in the other party. If these lefties truly were lefties, the last thing they would want to do is draw attention away from this self-immolation by the party in power, or give voters second thoughts about replacing them.

But instead, as the GOP starts swirling in the toilet, here come the lefties splashing and foaming and banging the seat up and down... and keeping the GOP afloat.

Seems a little too convenient, doesn't it?

[Dos]

and as soon as some tries to clean it up.. the left calls foul..

Mon Oct 24,11:53 PM ET
Protestors chanted outside a congressional hearing in Milwaukee Monday.

ADVERTISEMENT

The hearing was to discuss voting irregularities in Wisconsin in 2004's presidential election.

Green Bay Congressman Mark Green had asked for the hearing after state auditors recently found 105 instances of improper or fraudulent voting in 5 Wisconsin cities including Milwaukee and Madison.

the protestors oppose proposals requiring voters to show photo identification before voting.

[Nbadan]

The GAO report says that electronic voting is vulnerable. I agree. It does not say that Bush stole the 2004 election. There is zero evidence of that.

Wacky unhinged lunatics say that Bush stole the 2004 election. It is a conspiracy theory.

So yes, you are continuing to marginalize yourself. I don't think you know how to stop before you go off the deep end and take everything to the wild moonbat conclusion.

In fact, you are marginalizing legitimate concerns about electronic voting. I would love to see reforms that improve security. I would love to see voting machines print out an anonymous copy of the ballot I fill out, which can be placed in a ballot box to be used for recounts. Other countries already do this.

But when all these concerns get framed in same old lefty "BUSHITLER STOLE ELECTION DIEBOLD NEOCON CABAL OIL OIL OIL FASCISM REPUG YEEEAAARRRGHHHH!!!" rambling, normal people dismiss it as ranting and raving. It gets tuned out.

:rolleyes

The GAO report goes way beyond merely saying that paper-less e-voting is vulnerable to manipulation. I believe It provides the frame-work to the motives, means and opportunity of an apparent crime.

Fact: Diebold and other E-Voting machine makers are openly W supporters. Before the election, the President of Diebold promised to deliver Ohio to Bush.

Fact: E-voting machine tabulators can be manipulated with a modem and Microsoft Access and Excel leaving no trace in their wake.

Fact: E-voting machines operate on proprietary software owned by a private corporations who refuse to make their software open to investigation, and in some cases, these corporations have owners with felony convictions. Where is the governmental oversight?

Fact: Some States like California have banned the use of paper-less E-voting machines due to their own tests which prove the machines suffer from systematic unreliability and failure to secure voting data.

Fact: Voting irregularities were first detected on election night by polling data.

Fact: The GAO report itself finds impossible occurrences and statistical impossibilities in the voting data which have never been explained.

Fact: The 2000 and 2004 Presidential elections were stolen and today we are all living in something much less than a true democracy.

[mookie2001]

thats a nice article
except it has no link
and its kind of short
and it has no authors name attached
and they didnt use capitalization to begin a sentance

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Did I say it should be ignored? There will always be fraud no matter how much you do to protect the process ... but that one is pretty huge. Just don't assume that because there is fraud automatically makes it REPUBLICAN fraud. There are cheating bastards on both sides.


i never assumed that, i was saying we should keep this thread non partisan

[Dos]

right dan.. we should go back to butterfly ballots and hanging chads....

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Fact: Diebold and other E-Voting machine makers are openly W supporters. Before the election, the President of Diebold promised to deliver Ohio to Bush.

Americaaa Americaaa God shed his grace on theeeee

[Hook Dem]

"The 2000 and 2004 Presidential elections were stolen"............................ Not a fact!. Just your opinion!

[Nbadan]

dupe

[Extra Stout]

Fact: The 2000 and 2004 Presidential elections were stolen and today we are all living in something much less than a true democracy.

Fact: You are more interested in indulging your own little fantasy world and stirring up shit than you are in getting your side's message across.

[Dos]

I would assume that is why kerry conceded the election too... cause after all it was stolen..... aye

[Cant_Be_Faded]

"The 2000 and 2004 Presidential elections were stolen"............................ Not a fact!. Just your opinion!


Opinions strongly supported by more evidence than you'd expect if the claims were false...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

If these lefties truly were lefties, the last thing they would want to do is draw attention away from this self-immolation by the party in power, or give voters second thoughts about replacing them.


:lol that's a strong word....i like it...i shall use it in a sentence today.

[mookie2001]

Word Command 2005
Power Words 2004
Vocabulary Strength 2003

[cecil collins]

"The 2000 and 2004 Presidential elections were stolen"............................ Not a fact!. Just your opinion!
Dumb, it's hard to make something a fact if those in control don't tell you it's a fact. You won't believe it until it comes from Bush's stupid grinning face.

[Useruser666]

Some things to clear up here.

I fully support whatever voting system is both proven reliable and secure.
Electronic voting can be both of those things if the time is taken to develope the proper system. For me personally, you can count the votes a million times from 2000 and 2004 till your fingers bleed and your eyes pop out, and it won't change either of the outcomes.

People need to focus on the future and not roll around in the past.

[Marcus Bryant]

So we have a ruling elite that are able to manipulate presidential elections, orchestrate a terrorist attack on US soil that leaves thousands dead, create wars in Central Asia and the Mid-East to further petroleum exploration and extraction and satisfy every special interest known to man, yet can only come up with W as a suitable candidate and they can't manage a simple SC nomination or leaking of a CIA officer's identity?

Great fucking theory. How do you manage to take a piss while in that straitjacket?

[Nbadan]

So we have a ruling elite that are able to manipulate presidential elections, orchestrate a terrorist attack on US soil that leaves thousands dead, create wars in Central Asia and the Mid-East to further petroleum exploration and extraction and satisfy every special interest known to man, yet can only come up with W as a suitable candidate and they can't manage a simple SC nomination or leaking of a CIA officer's identity?

Great fucking theory. How do you manage to take a piss while in that straitjacket?

Naturally, because if you believe in a government report which through years of research concludes that the 04 election was likely stolen, then you must also believe in UFO’s and the boogey man.

:rolleyes

Of course, this also proves that I was right when I predicted Kerry would win the 04 election. Given these credible findings, I demand Kori return my $500 v-bookie money!

:lol

[Yonivore]

Great fucking theory. How do you manage to take a piss while in that straitjacket?
:lmao

[Marcus Bryant]

Naturally, because if you believe in a government report which through years of research concludes that the 04 election was likely stolen, then you must also believe in UFO’s and the boogey man.

:rolleyes


That report did not reach such a conclusion.




Of course, this also proves that I was right when I predicted Kerry would win the 04 election. Given these credible findings, I demand Kori return my $500 v-bookie money!

:lol

Ha.

[Marcus Bryant]

If we have an omnipotent, omniscient ruling oligarchy don't you think they could've come up with something better than Bush v. Gore or Bush v. Kerry?

[Extra Stout]

Of course, this also proves that I was right when I predicted Kerry would win the 04 election. Given these credible findings, I demand Kori return my $500 v-bookie money!
OK, now I get it.

[Yonivore]

OK, now I get it.
It always boils down to v-bookie bucks. Just follow the virtual money...

[Spurminator]

If we have an omnipotent, omniscient ruling oligarchy don't you think they could've come up with something better than Bush v. Gore or Bush v. Kerry?

Maybe they have a fucked up sense of humor too.

I can't say I wouldn't be tempted...

[Useruser666]

Somebody needs one of these t-shirts.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9459/tshirt9xa.jpg

[cecil collins]

People need to focus on the future and not roll around in the past.
Easy for a conservative to say. Let's only roll around in the past when it benefits the elephants.

[Nbadan]

Easy for a conservative to say. Let's only roll around in the past when it benefits the elephants.

Let's forget the past, what about the future? In 2006 we'll still have some states using these same untrackable, manipulatable paper-less ballots.

[cecil collins]

Maybe we are all just overreacting, I mean, the white house hasn't confirmed all of this. It's not a fact, so why worry about it. At least it's keeping the terrorists at bay. How scared they must be now that the war mongerers have complete control of elected officials.

[Marcus Bryant]

Of course, when the GOP wins an election it's due to a faked vote. But when the Demos when, why then 'the people have spoken.'

[cecil collins]

Of course, when the GOP wins an election it's due to a faked vote. But when the Demos when, why then 'the people have spoken.'
Conservative^ russle up some controversy in the last time the democrats won(96.) I suppose you'll say it's because righties aren't conspiracy theorists.

[Marcus Bryant]

Dumbass^ thinks the people spoke in '92 and '96 but not in '94, '00 & '04.

[cecil collins]

Dumbass^ thinks the people spoke in '92 and '96 but not in '94, '00 & '04.
Some people spoke in all of those years, but there is something to these voting scandals(2000 and 2004.) Rich people speak the loudest.

[Marcus Bryant]

Oddly enough, a number of "rich people" support left-wing candidates and causes...

[SpursWoman]

Let's forget the past, what about the future? In 2006 we'll still have some states using these same untrackable, manipulatable paper-less ballots.

Let's not look forward to do anything to fix it or find a better process or anticipate other future problems ... let's just sit here and bitch about what may or may not have already happened a year ago.

[cecil collins]

Oddly enough the owners of the computer voting systems happen to be conservatives and some even promise to deliver states(Ohio) to Bush.

[JoeChalupa]

I've moved on and am content on who I voted for.

[SpursWoman]

Oddly enough the owners of the computer voting systems happen to be conservatives and some even promise to deliver states(Ohio) to Bush.


Oddly enough, DEAD people can punch a ballot!

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, Democrats have never committed vote fraud. This left-wing alternate reality certainly is fun...

[cecil collins]

Let's not look forward to do anything to fix it or find a better process or anticipate other future problems ... let's just sit here and bitch about what may or may not have already happened a year ago.
Because it's much better to say "ahh whatever, can't do anything now" and hope it doesn't keep happening. It won't stop happening if the scandal(if it is indeed true) is publicized to the people. It must be on CBS before anyone believes that it holds some water.

Your point is don't bitch about anything that has already happened, I'll remember to remind you later.

[SpursWoman]

Because it's much better to say "ahh whatever, can't do anything now" and hope it doesn't keep happening. It won't stop happening if the scandal(if it is indeed true) is publicized to the people. It must be on CBS before anyone believes that it holds some water.

Your point is don't bitch about anything that has already happened, I'll remember to remind you later.


Huh? Did you even understand what I said?

[cecil collins]

Let's not look forward to do anything to fix it or find a better process or anticipate other future problems ... let's just sit here and bitch about what may or may not have already happened a year ago.
this

[SpursWoman]

Huh? Did you even understand what I said?

[cecil collins]

I swear, when people start to support conservatism, the hormones released the brain while someone is avidly "conserving" must also serve to block synapses in the brain's "bull shit detection" region
This

[Useruser666]

Oh brother. The last two elections have mostly likely been the most scrutenized of any election EVER held on the face of this planet. They have been gone over with fine toothed combs and those combs been disected and studied as well. Is that a bad thing? Not to me. Does fraud occur? Sure! Do anyone actually believe that there is more voter fraud than there was throughout the history of the US by percentage? Is electronic voting possibly a good tool to use to aid in achieving higher voter turn out and a greater confidence in the voting establishment in general? I believe so. With the proper oversight, and a well managed system, this is progress for us all.

[JoeChalupa]

There will be another democratic president.....all in good time.

[SA210]

Yes, and Bush can go back on vacation, permanantly.

[SpursWoman]

There will be another democratic president.....all in good time.


Not if they don't get their shit together and come up with a plan that will attract some moderates they won't ... not anytime soon.

[scott]

What does this have to do with me?

[JoeChalupa]

Not if they don't get their shit together and come up with a plan that will attract some moderates they won't ... not anytime soon.

I beg to differ. More and more people ..even conservatives..are wising up to this administration's tactics and policies. I remember when many said Bill didn't have a chance against poppa Bush.

and it's not like this administration has their shit together either...but that is just me.

[Spurminator]

I don't know that the Left is attracting any moderates/conservatives as much as the Bush Administration is alienating them. Kind of like 1992... When people who were fed up with Bush1 voted for Ross Perot.

[SpursWoman]

I beg to differ. More and more people ..even conservatives..are wising up to this administration's tactics and policies. I remember when many said Bill didn't have a chance against poppa Bush.

and it's not like this administration has their shit together either...but that is just me.


This administration can't run again. And I never said I thought they did have their shit together....but as long as the Dems keep putting extremist on the ballot whose platform is how bad the other guy is, not what they have to offer...FORGET IT. :drunk

[boutons]

"how bad the other guy is,"

negative campaigning works. Repubs know/practice that as thoroughly as anybody.
The voters say they hate it, say there's too much of it, but they vote it.

[Nbadan]

What does this have to do with me?

Your thread decrying the popular reasons that Democrats have been unsuccessful in 00 and 04. Well, now it turns out that Democrats likely won both elections.

[Nbadan]

I beg to differ. More and more people ..even conservatives..are wising up to this administration's tactics and policies. I remember when many said Bill didn't have a chance against poppa Bush.

and it's not like this administration has their shit together either...but that is just me.

Joe's right. For Republicans this is turning into 1992 all over again.

[Marcus Bryant]

Not so fast. After all, they control the elections, right?

[Vashner]

Man NBAdan.. your fucking pitifull.. give it the fuck up..

Bush owns you... you suck compared to Bush...

Life must suck for you having Bush like under your skin 24x7....

I feel sorry for you..... You should try to go outside and get some sun or something.

Cause just staying indoors while Bush fucks you 24x7 must really suck.

[jochhejaam]

Well, now it turns out that Democrats likely won both elections.
Allow me to be the first to congratulate you on what was originally deemed defeat. Go on and break out the champagne and balloons and belatedly celebrate your victory. By the power vested in me I now pronounce Albert Gore and John Kerry as honorary Presidents of the United States of America. :tu

http://clinton4.nara.gov/media/gif/seal-presidential-color.gif

There are plenty of conservative voters out there who weren't offered a
viable alternative to Bush at the polls. Next election nominate a Dem that's a little closer to the 50 yard line instead of one who's planted in the end zone.

Although you know the far left won't allow that, don't you?

[jochhejaam]

"
negative campaigning works. Repubs know/practice that as thoroughly as anybody.
The voters say they hate it, say there's too much of it, but they vote it.
That's laughable coming from someone whose Party's vision and plan for America was nothing more than a "litany of complaints". Cost you an election it did.
You nominated Kerry, now suffer and live with what you consider the consequences. How many elections do you have to lose to learn from your mistakes?

[SpursWoman]

Not so fast. After all, they control the elections, right?


:lol

No shit. They'll just come up with better ways to steal the elections. Democrats will NEVER win. :lmao

Don't ya'll gotta go skew some online polls or something? :rollin :lol

[Murphy]

oh my god, liberals are just like Laker fans, whenever they lose, they cry foul

[xrayzebra]

oh my god, liberals are just like Laker fans, whenever they lose, they cry foul

I really wonder if the liberals (left wingers---anti-American) groups think they are going to change anything now. They just cant get over the fact they lost fair and square in 2000 and 2004. Hell, Kerry still trying to figure out his Iraq strategy.

[scott]

Your thread decrying the popular reasons that Democrats have been unsuccessful in 00 and 04. Well, now it turns out that Democrats likely won both elections.

Winning the popular vote doesn't get you the presidency - as we saw in 2000 and probably would have also been in the case in 2004 despite the GAO report.

Even so, the democrats should have been able to field a candidate that is able to do more than BARELY beat Bush and allow such a controversy to arise. We are talking about Dubya here...

[Yonivore]

Winning the popular vote doesn't get you the presidency - as we saw in 2000 and probably would have also been in the case in 2004 despite the GAO report.

Even so, the democrats should have been able to field a candidate that is able to do more than BARELY beat Bush and allow such a controversy to arise. We are talking about Dubya here...
I think you misunderestimate his strategerie scott...

[Nbadan]

Winning the popular vote doesn't get you the presidency - as we saw in 2000 and probably would have also been in the case in 2004 despite the GAO report.

Even so, the democrats should have been able to field a candidate that is able to do more than BARELY beat Bush and allow such a controversy to arise. We are talking about Dubya here...

Had Al Gore won Florida, and Kerry won Ohio and New Mexico, as they probably legitimately did, the electoral vote would have swung with the popular vote.

Many people were still caught up in the 'you didn't change a ship in midcourse' fallacy. Now they know better.

[gtownspur]

And if Bush won Wyoming and the election wasnt called early for Gore, Bush would of won the presidency by popular mandate.

[scott]

Had Al Gore won Florida, and Kerry won Ohio and New Mexico, as they probably legitimately did, the electoral vote would have swung with the popular vote.

Many people were still caught up in the 'you didn't change a ship in midcourse' fallacy. Now they know better.

Well Dan, the 2005 Dallas Cowboys can attest to this... when you play down to the level of your competition and don't go for the kill... you leave the door open for them to squeak out a victory against you.

[Nbadan]

And if Bush won Wyoming and the election wasnt called early for Gore, Bush would of won the presidency by popular mandate.

Wyoming is a Republican stronghold mostly cause of Dick Cheney.

Based on Florida exit polls, Gore won Florida. The Networks weren't wrong, the final vote tallies were.

[Nbadan]

Well Dan, the 2005 Dallas Cowboys can attest to this... when you play down to the level of your competition and don't go for the kill... you leave the door open for them to squeak out a victory against you.

The thing is, we don't know how bad the voting has been corrupted. For all we know, Liberals and Progressives could be the greater majority in parts of the South. Without voter reform, It's not playing down to the level of your competition, it's more like playing Judson with a six-man football team.