Manu Ginobili - Disrespected by the NBA for DWade and Dirk

[Gino-Step]

In literally every year except for last year, the fan vote selects the starters for the All Star Game and Manu Ginobii had enough fan votes for one of the spots last year. In a cheaply mass marketed league where Manu got no shine, the fans were still aware enough to over the years appreciate the greatness that is Manu Ginobili - something that this league has never appreciated. A 2 time freaking All Star who was bypassed by media for the Finals MVP vote. In any situation where this league got a say, he got disrespected.

So what just happened? This year Silver decides to add an extra roster spot for DWade and Dirk? Total disrespect for the 3rd best SG after MJ and Kobe, and the Greatest International Player of All Time - Emmanuel David Ginobili.

[skin27]

Lol manu aren’t in the same league as wade and dirk(atleast in the NBA)



wade and dirk Consistently play in the allstar game during their primes While manu managed to get in the All Star just twice in his career..


dirk and wade are superstars of their team(although wade lost that role when Lebron joined the heat) while manu isn’t..


different story in international play though..

[SpursDynasty85]

Who cares they want to celebrate these two? They are all time greats. This doesnt diminish what Ginobili did. People just have differing opinions than you. Most put these two way ahead of Ginobili. It's just how it is.

[Biernutz]

By Silver giving Dirk and Wade a all star spot just shows that that all star voting means nothing.
The game is a total joke that doesn’t reward league play. It lets players in the game who have
not played half the games this year and not having a good year. Why don’t they just let the pimp
sports writers and ESPN pick the teams. While they are at it how about giving ESPN a $100,000,000
fine for saying day after days that all the stars should go to Los Angeles or New York on all their shows.

[John B]

Lol manu aren’t in the same league as wade and dirk(atleast in the NBA)



wade and dirk Consistently play in the allstar game during their primes While manu managed to get in the All Star just twice in his career..


dirk and wade are superstars of their team(although wade lost that role when Lebron joined the heat) while manu isn’t..


different story in international play though..
Manu getting only 2x ASG doesn’t mean he’s any less. He agreed to play from the bench helped get 4x championship. Anywhere else he’s a starter and could’ve gone to ASG every year.

[skin27]

Manu getting only 2x ASG doesn’t mean he’s any less. He agreed to play from the bench helped get 4x championship. Anywhere else he’s a starter and could’ve gone to ASG every year.


It is what it is..you can’t change the fact that wade and dirk are on the higher status than manu..

[hater]

:lmao comparing manu to hof legends like wade and dirk :lmao

[John B]

:lmao comparing manu to hof legends like wade and dirk :lmao
Manu is 1st vote HOF. He has done more in basketball than Dirk and Wade, if you’re talking HOF and not just NBA.

[paperboy77]

It is what it is..you can’t change the fact that wade and dirk are on the higher status than manu..

I can understand op’s ire but I’m no gonna sweat that. Manu never really got the love he deserved.

Although Wade and Dirk were great and should be celebrated neither were as awesome come big games and for so long. They were but not like Gino. Especially Wade that guy hasn’t really been relevant for some time. Dirk even a few yrs ago was involved in some big games. (This is what I remember.)

I would definitely “go to war” with Manu before Wade or Dirk. If your being serious... wouldn’t you?

[cd021]

Manu is 1st vote HOF. He has done more in basketball than Dirk and Wade, if you’re talking HOF and not just NBA.

Man, I disagree that he has done more than Dirk for sure.

[RD2191]

It is what it is..you can’t change the fact that wade and dirk are on the higher status than manu..

No, they're not. Manu is one of the most influential players of his generation. Get that garbage outta here. :lol

[John B]

Man, I disagree that he has done more than Dirk for sure.
Again HOF not NBA okay? Manu has 10 medals, including 5 gold, one of which Olympics. Dirk, 2 medals, no gold. And Manu was not just collecting medals, he was the leader of that Argentinian team. NBA, he chose to be sixth man. Who knows with some other team and if he played stats-padding, and we would never have this argument.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

further diminishes all star selections as a measure of greatness, overall

but no need to cry for manu specifically

*actually watering down all stars may help manus resume a bit because he only got two ...

[SPURt]

They should bring back the legends game at all star weeken if they’re gonna start doing this.

[BillMc]

The precedent set is interesting. If Dirk and DWade get a honorary All-Star do all future greats get one? And will there be controversy when one is not given one? It's a bit of a Pandora's box. Not Manu so much, but where was TD's final bow All-Star appearance. If the argument is TD didn't announce his retirement in advance, well, neither has Dirk.

In the big picture I don't care. All-NBA is more important than All-Star but for some reason the later is mentioned more often in career retrospectives.

[KDKSpurs24]

Well.. in all types of businesses people have meetings each year and discuss things. Some things take time to be created. Ever heard someone say “They didn’t have that when I was in school”? Sometimes you were just born too early and certain types of new management finally allow different factors to be acceptable. (I know it’s just basketball and not all that deep but this is just how things have been).

With that being said, I don’t really agree with this. I may agree with Wade since he announced it was his last season but Dirk didn’t.. so how often is this gonna happen?

Ive been saying that I wanted it to increase to 13 all star spots since you can dress 13 players in a real game now. But I didn’t want that 13th spot to be for honorable mention type players..

[DMC]

Shows that there are no "names" this year outside the big 3 of KD, Steph and Lebron. All these other guys like AD and anyone from the East is really just undercard bouts trying to fill the role of superstars. I mean, who gives a fuck about anyone on the 76ers or KAT? Who gives a fuck about Kawhi Leonard? Jokic?

Silver is trying to get interest in the game. There's no interest.

[HarlemHeat37]

Dirk only got in to make it less suspicious that Wade got selected, tbh..nobody that cares about the ASG wants to watch Dirk:lol

[John B]

How about Vinsanity, half-man, half-amazing. Is he being snobbed also?

[313]

AS game is a meaningless accolade, and shouldn’t bolster or diminish a player’s resume

[bigfan]

Who gives a rats ass about the All Star game? Manu is a first round Basketball Hall of Famer (Dirk is as well).

[daslicer]

No, they're not. Manu is one of the most influential players of his generation. Get that garbage outta here. :lol

Allen Iverson was more influential on the players of his generation than Tim Duncan was. It's because of AI you have a bunch of undersized SG's that now play the PG position. With that being said nobody would be stupid enough to say AI has higher status than Duncan as a player. Wade and Dirk status wise on the all-time great list are both clearly ahead of Manu.

[diego]

The precedent set is interesting. If Dirk and DWade get a honorary All-Star do all future greats get one? And will there be controversy when one is not given one? It's a bit of a Pandora's box. Not Manu so much, but where was TD's final bow All-Star appearance. If the argument is TD didn't announce his retirement in advance, well, neither has Dirk.

In the big picture I don't care. All-NBA is more important than All-Star but for some reason the later is mentioned more often in career retrospectives.

Exactly. What happens if Dirk comes back next year, another honorary spot?

And the bigger issue is that as selections matter for endorsements, performance clauses, Hof induction etc

[Chris Fall]

Manu still contemplating playing this season through much of the summer. Dirk and Wade announced that this would be their last season before or near the beginning of the season. Vince Carter may yet play another season the way he’s going. It’s the fact they announced it would be their last season that likely triggered this feeling that they should participate in the ASG, which btw I don’t agree with the decision. And I’m not saying Silver would have done it for Manu. But it is different circumstances.

[Capt Bringdown]

As an NBA player, Manu does not belong in the same group that DWade and Dirk belong in. You could make a case for international basketball competitions, but this in the NBA.
/sorted

[TheGreatYacht]

As an NBA player, Manu does not belong in the same group that DWade and Dirk belong in. You could make a case for international basketball competitions, but this in the NBA.
/sorted

:lmao comparing manu to hof legends like wade and dirk :lmao

[TheGreatYacht]

Manu still contemplating playing this season through much of the summer. Dirk and Wade announced that this would be their last season before or near the beginning of the season. Vince Carter may yet play another season the way he’s going. It’s the fact they announced it would be their last season that likely triggered this feeling that they should participate in the ASG, which btw I don’t agree with the decision. And I’m not saying Silver would have done it for Manu. But it is different circumstances.

Plus haven’t Wade and Dirk stated that this is for sure their last season? By doing so that have advocated for a sendoff tour. The NBA didn’t know when manus last year was going to be and Manu never publicly stated that it was his last season.
Dirk never announced this was his last season. Both of you need your facts straight. He just sucks so bad that everyone thinks it is.

God damn shame that he got an all star appearence closer to Tim's hard earned 15 though

[DAF86]

The two times Manu made the ASG are the only two seasons he played more as a starter than as a sub. Coincidence?

[DesignatedT]

Plus haven’t Wade and Dirk stated that this is for sure their last season? By doing so that have advocated for a sendoff tour. The NBA didn’t know when manus last year was going to be and Manu never publicly stated that it was his last season.

[Chris Fall]

Dirk never announced this was his last season. Both of you need your facts straight. He just sucks so bad that everyone thinks it is.

God damn shame that he got an all star appearence closer to Tim's hard earned 15 though

My mistake that he didn’t formally announce it. But everyone knows he’s retiring after the season. He’s accepted retirement gifts. Every time he plays in a road game, he gets cheered by opposing fans. Of course he’s retiring. It’s a disingenuous argument to think he’s not just for the sake of using it in a Manu debate. He also said a while back that he did NOT want a retirement tour, and that’s likely the reason he didn’t formally announce it.

I don’t like him and Wade getting added since now they’re both bench players. But it’s the fucking all star game. People shouldn’t care that much anyway. You think Manu cares?

[MoSpur02]

First of all Manu is a HOFer for sure. No doubt. He has 4 rings and his gold medal among other accomplishments. However, he wasn't disrespected by the NBA. Wade and Dirk have pretty much made it known that this is their last season. Manu didn't decide until after the season was over that he was done. There was no way of knowing if he was done.

Dirk and Wade are more accomplished than Manu in the NBA when it comes to stats, but Manu will get into the HOF just like they are.

[TheGreatYacht]

My mistake that he didn’t formally announce it. But everyone knows he’s retiring after the season. He’s accepted retirement gifts. Every time he plays in a road game, he gets cheered by opposing fans. Of course he’s retiring. It’s a disingenuous argument to think he’s not just for the sake of using it in a Manu debate. He also said a while back that he did NOT want a retirement tour, and that’s likely the reason he didn’t formally announce it.

I don’t like him and Wade getting added since now they’re both bench players. But it’s the fucking all star game. People shouldn’t care that much anyway. You think Manu cares?
Manu doesn't care. He already got gifted two all star appearances over Parker who was putting up more points and assists in both years. Just hope they treat Tony the same. He's had a better career than Wade.

[Capt Bringdown]

Besides LBJ and Ray Allen, who else benefited more from catastrophic Manu fuck-ups more than DWade and Dirk? Perhaps this is what makes the Manu fanbois salty about this year's All-star snub?
https://s.hdnux.com/photos/45/24/27/9782740/3/rawImage.jpg

[TheGoatishere]

Manu isn’t in the same class as Wade and Dirk:lmao

both of them are top 25 all time

[DAF86]

Manu isn’t in the same class as Wade and Dirk:lmao

both of them are top 25 all time

In terms of personal stats and accolades in the NBA he might not be. As a basketball player Manu is definitely on that second tier where Dirk and Wade are, right behind the GOATS like MJ, Timmy, Lebron, etc.

[lilbthebasedgod]

lol

[TheGreatYacht]

:lol Manure fans

That Guatemalan wasn't even second tier on his own team

[Xx_SpursNation_xX]

'Member when he fouled Dirk

[DAF86]

I know it isn't a popular opinion, but I just know that's how it is, tbh.

If OKC's ownership wasn't cheap, Harden would have spent his entire career like Manu did. Stupid fucks would probably still be saying that Westbrook is a better player than him. :lol

[TheGreatYacht]

Harden is twice the player Manu ever was. Don't know why playerfans keep going with this agenda that they're somehow equals....

[HarlemHeat37]

Listing their accolades doesn't make sense here..the ASG is a popularity contest, the NBA is giving the fans what they want..

Manu is significantly more popular than Dirk, so that's what the argument would be in that regard..

Ultimately, they're doing this because LeBron wants Wade in the game, though..

[Proxy]

this VC's last year too or no?

[spurs10]

Hall Of Fame here Manu's comes. I think on March 28th, or the day after, they will need to do work on the roof and the foundation of the AT&T Center. It's gonna be fun....and intense!
:flag:

[SpurPadre]

Notice how Vince Carter didn't get an honorary spot despite being somewhat of a legend?

[Mugen]

Pretty crazy that in his last year, Timmy was anchoring an all-time defense on one knee en route to winning 65+ games....

Even Manu at times was carrying a team composed of mostly scrubs outside of LMA to a playoff berth, even managing to get a playoff win against one of the greatest teams of all time in the Dubs....

Dirk/Wade are obviously all-timers but the league and their respective lottery teams are practically begging them to retire at the end of this year :lol

[Barfunk]

The two times Manu made the ASG are the only two seasons he played more as a starter than as a sub. Coincidence?

This. Pop is to blame (having him come off the bench his entire career, when he was clearly a starter) for Manu's subpar NBA stats. That fact is plain as day. But at the end of the day it was a double edged sword, because we got 4 rings out of it.

[DAF86]

Harden is twice the player Manu ever was. Don't know why playerfans keep going with this agenda that they're somehow equals....

Yet you wouldn't be saying this if Harden spent his entire career as a 6th man in OKC.

[kjhip1]

Harden is twice the player Manu ever was. Don't know why playerfans keep going with this agenda that they're somehow equals....

I would take prime Manu vs prime Harden any day off the week, twice on Sundays. Manu played with wreckless abandonment and played both sides of the ball at a high level.

[Down Under]

You could say the same thing about Pau tbh. I mean everyone hates him now, but from his rookie year, until the Lakers 2nd Championship, dude was one of the very best (probably the best during the Lakers run) bigs in the league.

[DAF86]

You could say the same thing about Pau tbh. I mean everyone hates him now, but from his rookie year, until the Lakers 2nd Championship, dude was one of the very best (probably the best during the Lakers run) bigs in the league.

Pau isn't retiring after this season.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Dogface Dirk was always overrated AF. Then there was that stretch circa 2006-2008 where you literally couldn't breathe on that faggot without sending him to the line for 2 free throws

[Spurtacular]

Lol manu aren’t in the same league as wade and dirk(atleast in the NBA)


Agreed. He's definitely in a higher stratosphere.

[Shakril]

Manu is a Spurs Legend, but in all of NBA Manu was not top notch player like Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant or Kevin Garnett. Dirk and Wade are in that category. Also both of them are playing in the NBA right now, Manu not. Why should he be in Allstar game in the first place.

[DAF86]

Manu is a Spurs Legend, but in all of NBA Manu was not top notch player like Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant or Kevin Garnett. Dirk and Wade are in that category. Also both of them are playing in the NBA right now, Manu not. Why should he be in Allstar game in the first place.

Dirk and Wade aren't on the same tier than Duncan, tbh.

[skin27]

Notice how Vince Carter didn't get an honorary spot despite being somewhat of a legend?


Because he became an nba journey man.. and carter did not win a ring..

[Mikeanaro]

Lol Manu performed at high level until the end, while these 2 shitstains are 5-year corpses.
Who cares? Manu was better, not even close.

[Mikeanaro]

Allen Iverson was more influential on the players of his generation than Tim Duncan was. It's because of AI you have a bunch of undersized SG's that now play the PG position. With that being said nobody would be stupid enough to say AI has higher status than Duncan as a player. Wade and Dirk status wise on the all-time great list are both clearly ahead of Manu.
Thats crazy, it has nothing to do with AI...
If a player has speed balls and good shooting is not because of Iverson...
There is not a trend, we dont have 30 starting midget SG´s .
It has to do with game being small-ball oriented, fast plays, 3 pointers no defense.
Wade is ahead because he won a ring getting 40 fts per game, and Dirk because he is a loser with one ring, gotcha.

[Mikeanaro]

'Member when he fouled Dirk
I still remember how Dirk chocked the whole finals, and kicked a chair like it was his mother.

[jbspurs]

In literally every year except for last year, the fan vote selects the starters for the All Star Game and Manu Ginobii had enough fan votes for one of the spots last year. In a cheaply mass marketed league where Manu got no shine, the fans were still aware enough to over the years appreciate the greatness that is Manu Ginobili - something that this league has never appreciated. A 2 time freaking All Star who was bypassed by media for the Finals MVP vote. In any situation where this league got a say, he got disrespected.

So what just happened? This year Silver decides to add an extra roster spot for DWade and Dirk? Total disrespect for the 3rd best SG after MJ and Kobe, and the Greatest International Player of All Time - Emmanuel David Ginobili.

You also have to consider, Ginobili himself wasn't sure if he was going to retire after last season. Wade and Dirk pretty much decided this will be their last season playing in the NBA.

[skin27]

Manu doesn't care. He already got gifted two all star appearances over Parker who was putting up more points and assists in both years. Just hope they treat Tony the same. He's had a better career than Wade.

parker and manu aren’t in the same league as wade and dirk..

they are just the side kicks’s of Duncan

[HarlemHeat37]

You also have to consider, Ginobili himself wasn't sure if he was going to retire after last season. Wade and Dirk pretty much decided this will be their last season playing in the NBA.

Dirk hasn't said anything IIRC..he's just so bad that people are assuming that this is his last year:lol

[skin27]

I would take prime Manu vs prime Harden any day off the week, twice on Sundays. Manu played with wreckless abandonment and played both sides of the ball at a high level.


lol harden is way better than manu offensively..winning the MVP ends the argument..tbh..

[Mikeanaro]

lol harden is way better than manu offensively..winning the MVP ends the argument..tbh..
And who cares about that?
Harden couldnt even fool a 40 year old Manu in the playoffs.
Any clown can take 60 shots per night, BTW, how is prime Harden´s team doing this season?, HE IS SCORING 60!!!!
THATS HoFer CALIBER!
I WANT HIS FACE PRINTED IN MY COFFEE CUP!
I WANT HIS BOBBLEHEAD!

[jbspurs]

Dirk hasn't said anything IIRC..he's just so bad that people are assuming that this is his last year:lol

That's true!

[skin27]

And who cares about that?
Harden couldnt even fool a 40 year old Manu in the playoffs.
Any clown can take 60 shots per night, BTW, how is prime Harden´s team doing this season?, HE IS SCORING 60!!!!
THATS HoFer CALIBER!
I WANT HIS FACE PRINTED IN MY COFFEE CUP!
I WANT HIS BOBBLEHEAD!


lol manu benefited playing alongside top tier hall of famer tim duncan..


harden’s MVP ends the argument..tbh..

[Mikeanaro]

lol manu benefited playing alongside top tier hall of famer tim duncan..


harden’s MVP ends the argument..tbh..
Manu won by himself on other teams.
Harden benefited makin more FT´s than actual FG in his career, and getting infinite whistles.

That ends any argument.

[skin27]

Manu won by himself on other teams.
Harden benefited makin more FT´s than actual FG in his career, and getting infinite whistles.

That ends any argument.


really manu won the MVP? When?lol

he did not even get to all nba first team his entire career

[Mikeanaro]

really manu won the MVP? When?lol

he did not even get to all nba first team his entire career
Harden led an Olympic team with a bunch of scrubs to Gold?
As I said before, he is a marketing clown hyped by deaf people like you.
They can stick all those media awards in the ass.

But ok, if that helps you sleep better.
Fantasy bb.

[skin27]

Harden led an Olympic team with a bunch of scrubs to Gold?
As I said before, he is a marketing clown hyped by deaf people like you.
They can stick all those media awards in the ass.

But ok, if that helps you sleep better.
Fantasy bb.

yeah..harden won the gold medal too..and he was young back then..

and besides we’re talking about NBA

like I said harden’s MVP ends the argument..

[K...]

really manu won the MVP? When?lol

he did not even get to all nba first team his entire career

Watching the two players ought to end the argument. Manu did more sophisticated moves than harden or wade. If you value basketball as an art Manu is top 50. Wade only brought hgh and harden is benefiting from a different era. Unless you want to knock Manu for his injuries, he is on par with the second nd tier all time guards.


The arg good medal is much bigger than the mvp which is a popularity contest. Fucjing casuals

[K...]

Harden played with three hof players (durant, west, and cp3). Zero titles. One appearance. Durant will be on Duncan's level when he retires.

[Mikeanaro]

yeah..harden won the gold medal too..and he was young back then..

and besides we’re talking about NBA

like I said harden’s MVP ends the argument..
He was the main dog? thats news to me.
Never happened.
One more time
Manu won by himself on other teams.
Harden benefited makin more FT´s than actual FG in his career, and getting infinite whistles.

That ends any argument.

And old Manu did more in the playoffs than prime Harden (playoffs belong to the NBA you know)

Scoring in the meaningless season to get a dumb media award has no real value whatsoever.

So Im sorry but Manu did a lot more than Hardie, he even brought the Euro step that James love to use.

[Mikeanaro]

Harden played with three hof players (durant, west, and cp3). Zero titles. One appearance. Durant will be on Duncan's level when he retires.
Harden choked in the finals.
Durant joined a 73 win team, I doubt he will ever be on Duncan´s level on any serious conversation.

[skin27]

He was the main dog? thats news to me.
Never happened.
One more time
Manu won by himself on other teams.
Harden benefited makin more FT´s than actual FG in his career, and getting infinite whistles.

That ends any argument.

And old Manu did more in the playoffs than prime Harden (playoffs belong to the NBA you know)

Scoring in the meaningless season to get a dumb media award has no real value whatsoever.

So Im sorry but Manu did a lot more than Hardie, he even brought the Euro step that James love to use.


harden is a superstar of his team while manu isn’t..we’re talking about the nba..


winning the MVP is a big deal because you are the best player in that season..manu never won an NBA MVP award..

[Mikeanaro]

harden is a superstar of his team while manu isn’t..we’re talking about the nba..


winning the MVP is a big deal because you are the best player in that season..manu never won an NBA MVP award..
Winning the MVP is not a big deal, is a media award.
Westbrook won one by killing his own team and finishing with a 6th seed, is that something unique to you?

Big deal is winning championships against strong teams during different eras, even when you are old and they young.
MVP Curry put a nice show sinking 3´s to win one, then choked the whole Finals, what a clown.

[DAF86]

lol manu benefited playing alongside top tier hall of famer tim duncan..


harden’s MVP ends the argument..tbh..

Manu's greatest accomplishment of his career came playing against that top tier Hall of famer, tbh.

[DAF86]

It really is sad that Manu being such a selfless player has led even Spursfans to underrate him. One would guess that at least them would be able to fight the right cause and defend his greatness.

[Mikeanaro]

It really is sad that Manu being such a selfless player has led even Spursfans to underrate him. One would guess that at least them would be able to fight the right cause and defend his greatness.
They are not real Spurfans, they are salty fans from SA that would kill to have a big market franchise with all the bells and whistles, and free championships.
While their own team won every ring by playing great and getting no bullshit calls, they still prefer getting cheap calls and fake media recognition rather than having something genuine.

[skin27]

Winning the MVP is not a big deal, is a media award.
Westbrook won one by killing his own team and finishing with a 6th seed, is that something unique to you?

Big deal is winning championships against strong teams during different eras, even when you are old and they young.
MVP Curry put a nice show sinking 3´s to win one, then choked the whole Finals, what a clown.


lol discrediting the MVP award..MVP is a big deal men..and its not a popularity contest like the allstar..you have to have the stats and winning record to win that award..lol..winning the MVP means you are the best player for that particular season..manu never won an NBA MVP or even got selected to all nba first team..

[skin27]

Manu's greatest accomplishment of his career came playing against that top tier Hall of famer, tbh.


but he’s not the superstar of his team..lol

he and parker are just a sidekick of Duncan

if manu played for other team I doubt he can win an NBA title..


look at parker now in Charlotte

[Mikeanaro]

lol discrediting the MVP award..MVP is a big deal men..and its not a popularity contest like the allstar..you have to have the stats and winning record to win that award..lol..winning the MVP means you are the best player for that particular season..manu never won an NBA MVP or even got selected to all nba first team..
Its picked by media, they are the ones that tell you whats good/bad based on nothing, the same that said Raymond Green/Dwert was an elite defender.
When you say winning record a 6th seed is good enough?And he did it on purpose shutting his own team down to have some stupid stat that was forced as shit.
Arguments against Westbrook as MVP



Has annihilated previous records for usage (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&force%3Apos_is=1&c1stat=mp_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=30&c6mult=1.0&order_by=usg_pct). No one has had as many possessions as he has in NBA history
Shooting 42.5 percent from the field, 34.0 percent from 3-point range. Not the most efficient shooter.
Second in total turnovers, and turnovers per 100 possessions
Leads the league in uncontested rebounds. (Note: Westbrook is second among players under 6-foot-7 in contested rebounds per game via NBA.com)
Shooting efficiency not comparable to other candidates
Worst record of other leading candidates
On-court net rating worst of leading candidates
Clearly does pursue his triple-double. (Note: Westbrook has 10 assists and 10 rebounds only in the final three minutes of a game where OKC leads by at least 10, per Basketball Reference. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/event_finder.cgi?request=1&event_code=ast&year_id=2017&is_playoffs=N&quarter=4&time_remain_quarter=0-3&margin=11-99&player_id=westbru01)).




Winning the MVP only means that the press handpicked you and thats it, specially in this pussy NBA era.


And worst case scenario its a regular season award, who cares?

[Mikeanaro]

but he’s not the superstar of his team..lol

he and parker are just a sidekick of Duncan

if manu played for other team I doubt he can win an NBA title..


look at parker now in Charlotte
Parker is almost 37 years old, wtf.

Manu was the real FMVP in 2005.
So who cares about your labels?

[skin27]

Parker is almost 37 years old, wtf.

Manu was the real FMVP in 2005.
So who cares about your labels?

lol finals mvp? We’re talking about NBA MVP..

iguodala won finals MVP so that mean’s he’s Better than curry? Lol

Stop making what if’s scenario..lol

manu did not win an Finals MVP let alone NBA MVP..it’s a fact


duncan got selected in all nba first team when he was 37 years old..

[DAF86]

lol finals mvp? We’re talking about NBA MVP..

iguodala won finals MVP so that mean’s he’s Better than curry? Lol

Stop making what if’s scenario..lol

manu did not win an Finals MVP let alone NBA MVP..it’s a fact


duncan got selected in all nba first team when he was 37 years old..

Would have Harden won regular season MVP if he stayed in OKC?

[Mikeanaro]

lol finals mvp? We’re talking about NBA MVP..

iguodala won finals MVP so that mean’s he’s Better than curry? Lol

Stop making what if’s scenario..lol

manu did not win an Finals MVP let alone NBA MVP..it’s a fact
When it really matters Iguodala was better than Curry, Iguodala playing like shit during the closer would result in Cavs winning the championship, can you understand that?

Manu did not have it because 14 years ago it would have been too much to give it to a 6th man who was also an Argie.

How old are you? 4?

[skin27]

Its picked by media, they are the ones that tell you whats good/bad based on nothing, the same that said Raymond Green/Dwert was an elite defender.
When you say winning record a 6th seed is good enough?And he did it on purpose shutting his own team down to have some stupid stat that was forced as shit.
Arguments against Westbrook as MVP



Has annihilated previous records for usage (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&force%3Apos_is=1&c1stat=mp_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=30&c6mult=1.0&order_by=usg_pct). No one has had as many possessions as he has in NBA history
Shooting 42.5 percent from the field, 34.0 percent from 3-point range. Not the most efficient shooter.
Second in total turnovers, and turnovers per 100 possessions
Leads the league in uncontested rebounds. (Note: Westbrook is second among players under 6-foot-7 in contested rebounds per game via NBA.com)
Shooting efficiency not comparable to other candidates
Worst record of other leading candidates
On-court net rating worst of leading candidates
Clearly does pursue his triple-double. (Note: Westbrook has 10 assists and 10 rebounds only in the final three minutes of a game where OKC leads by at least 10, per Basketball Reference. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/event_finder.cgi?request=1&event_code=ast&year_id=2017&is_playoffs=N&quarter=4&time_remain_quarter=0-3&margin=11-99&player_id=westbru01)).




Winning the MVP only means that the press handpicked you and thats it, specially in this pussy NBA era.


And worst case scenario its a regular season award, who cares?

westbrooks’s stats in 2017 was a deal breaker..averaging triple double for a season is really hard to achieve..that’s why they give him the MVP award..if westbrook did not average triple double that season ,,harden or kawhi should have won it

manu never average 20pts a game in a single season..lol

[DAF86]

westbrooks’s stats in 2017 was a deal breaker..averaging triple double for a season is really hard to achieve..that’s why they give him the MVP award..if westbrook did not average triple double that season ,,harden or kawhi should have win it

Westbrook is averaging a triple double this season and nobody gives a shit.

[skin27]

Westbrook is averaging a triple double this season and nobody gives a shit.

but his points is down by 10pts compared in 2017..and he has George now who He share the limelight ..

[Mikeanaro]

westbrooks’s stats in 2017 was a deal breaker..averaging triple double for a season is really hard to achieve..that’s why they give him the MVP award..if westbrook did not average triple double that season ,,harden or kawhi should have won it

manu never average 20pts a game in a single season..lol
Manu wasnt a selfish ballhogger.
Lol comparing Manu with WB.

AVG a trip double and finishing 6th is not hard, and its meaningless anyway.

[DAF86]

but his points is down by 10pts compared in 2017..and he has George now that stealing the limelight from him..

So it wasn't really the triple double that got him the MVP?

[skin27]

So it wasn't really the triple double that got him the MVP? it was..and he was carrying the thunder alone..

[DAF86]

it was..and he was carrying the thunder alone..

If it was the triple double then why isn't he being talked for MVP now?

[Mikeanaro]

If it was the triple double then why isn't he being talked for MVP now?
...

[skin27]

If it was the triple double then why isn't he being talked for MVP now?


because he has George now..and his points are down compared to 2017..in 2017 he carried the thunder to 6th seed alone with his 31/10/10

[skin27]

Harden>>>>>manu

[DAF86]

because he has George now..and his points are down compared to 2017..in 2017 he carried the thunder to 6th seed alone with his 31/10/10

So, it wasn't really about the triple double. It was about the 30 ppg triple double and the narrative that he had no help although he had Oladipo (a top 20 player in the NBA) next to him.

[DAF86]

If Oladipo stayed in OKC folks will probably still think he's a scrub. That's how much circumstances play a part on a players' legacy.

[skin27]

So, it wasn't really about the triple double. It was about the 30 ppg triple double and the narrative that he had no help although he had Oladipo (a top 20 player in the NBA) next to him.

yup..but triple double help him beat out harden and kawhi despite harden’s and kawhi’s team had the better record

[Mikeanaro]

because he has George now..and his points are down compared to 2017..in 2017 he carried the thunder to 6th seed alone with his 31/10/10
So?
Jordan had Pip
Lebron Wade
Durant WB
Bird McHale
Curry Thompson etc.

[K...]

LMAO, the MVP award is dumb because the warriors have the two best players yet can't win every year so it goes to guys like harden, west, and giannis. And from 2008 to 2015 lebron was the true MVP every year. It's a really dumb award!

Basically, as a Spurs fan you need to hate the mvp because Duncan didn't get enough. If MVP is all you care about than you're a kobestan.

[skin27]

LMAO, the MVP award is dumb because the warriors have the two best players yet can't win every year so it goes to guys like harden, west, and giannis. And from 2008 to 2015 lebron was the true MVP every year. It's a really dumb award!

Basically, as a Spurs fan you need to hate the mvp because Duncan didn't get enough. If MVP is all you care about than you're a kobestan.

lol duncan won 2 MVP while kobe only one..lol

[skin27]

So?
Jordan had Pip
Lebron Wade
Durant WB
Bird McHale
Curry Thompson etc.

?lol

[daslicer]

LMAO, the MVP award is dumb because the warriors have the two best players yet can't win every year so it goes to guys like harden, west, and giannis. And from 2008 to 2015 lebron was the true MVP every year. It's a really dumb award!

Basically, as a Spurs fan you need to hate the mvp because Duncan didn't get enough. If MVP is all you care about than you're a kobestan.

MYP is a legit award. Not even MJ in his prime got it every year. I would say Rose and Durant both deserved the award in 2011 and 2014. I do believe Duncan was robbed of it in '99 and should have got it but the other years he wasn't robbed. I thought he would have gotten it in '05 had he not gotten that serious grade 3 ankle injury that kept him out for nearly 2 months towards the end of the year. Westbrook and Malone in '99 are the only 2 guys in the last 30 some years I felt weren't deserving of that award. Name me some other people who didn't deserve it besides those 2.

[skin27]

Lol @ people downgrading MVP award because their favorite player did not win it or even chave a chance to win it..

[skin27]

MYP is a legit award. Not even MJ in his prime got it every year. I would say Rose and Durant both deserved the award in 2011 and 2014. I do believe Duncan was robbed of it in '99 and should have got it but the other years he wasn't robbed. I thought he would have gotten it in '05 had he not gotten that serious grade 3 ankle injury that kept him out for nearly 2 months towards the end of the year. Westbrook and Malone in '99 are the only 2 guys in the last 30 some years I felt weren't deserving of that award. Name me some other people who didn't deserve it besides those 2.


If not because of westbrook triple double..harden should have won it..

[daslicer]

If not because of westbrook triple double..harden should have won it..

I thought #2 tbh deserved the MVP that year and then Harden after him. Anyways the MVP usually goes to a top 5 player. The best player in the league doesn't always get it every year due to certain factors such as team record, and having a season that's not as good as his previous MVP season. I can never recall a time where Manu was a top 5 player in the league. I despise Harden and hate his game but there is no doubt that he's a top 5 player in the league.

[Mikeanaro]

?lol
Originally Posted by DAF86 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9694647#post9694647)
If it was the triple double then why isn't he being talked for MVP now?

Originally Posted by Skin27 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9694647#post9694647)
because he has George now..and his points are down compared to 2017..in 2017 he carried the thunder to 6th seed alone with his 31/10/10

Originally Posted by Mikeanaro (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9694656#post9694656)
So?
Jordan had Pip
Lebron Wade
Durant WB
Bird McHale
Curry Thompson etc.

Originally Posted by skin27 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9694649#post9694649)
?lol

[Mikeanaro]

I thought #2 tbh deserved the MVP that year and then Harden after him. Anyways the MVP usually goes to a top 5 player. The best player in the league doesn't always get it every year due to certain factors such as team record, and having a season that's not as good as his previous MVP season. I can never recall a time where Manu was a top 5 player in the league. I despise Harden and hate his game but there is no doubt that he's a top 5 player in the league.
Manu only was a top 5 player when it was about winning championships, regular season is not much specially when you are a team player, not a ballhogger.

[daslicer]

Manu only was a top 5 player when it was about winning championships, regular season is not much specially when you are a team player, not a ballhogger.

Outside of the '05 playoff run I would not say for the other playoff runs that Manu was a top 5 player during the playoffs.

[Mikeanaro]

Outside of the '05 playoff run I would not say for the other playoff runs that Manu was a top 5 player during the playoffs.
You think Duncan won everything by himself?
If you have 2 teams on each playoff series from 2003 to 2018 and you think Manu doesnt deserve to be in the top 5, even in the finals...
Well then there is not much to say.

[kaji157]

If anything it diminishes the meaning of being an all Star. It doesn't diminishes Manu at all.

[skin27]

I thought #2 tbh deserved the MVP that year and then Harden after him. Anyways the MVP usually goes to a top 5 player. The best player in the league doesn't always get it every year due to certain factors such as team record, and having a season that's not as good as his previous MVP season. I can never recall a time where Manu was a top 5 player in the league. I despise Harden and hate his game but there is no doubt that he's a top 5 player in the league.


I’ll give harden the nod slightly

harden = 29/8.1/11.2 55-27 team record
leonard = 25/5.8/3.5 61-21 team record

[ElNono]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/57/8f/e8/578fe8b18caf4ca77b4f94754a044924.gif

[RC_Drunkford]

Ginobili is obviously in the same tier as D. Wade. Even ESPN retards like Max Kellerman and Stephen A. Smith admit that in the 2000s era Kobe, Wade and Manu were the top 3 SGs

[NameLess Scrub]

This. Pop is to blame (having him come off the bench his entire career, when he was clearly a starter) for Manu's subpar NBA stats. That fact is plain as day. But at the end of the day it was a double edged sword, because we got 4 rings out of it.

Yes, and also it probably extended Manu's career and productivity.


Yet you wouldn't be saying this if Harden spent his entire career as a 6th man in OKC.

I think this is possible.. D'Antoni also seems to have a role in Harden's development by giving him more freedom and the PG role.

OKC should've probably decided on Harden when they saw WB used to take more shots than KD :lol , but then again they probably didn't think he could play PG.

[NameLess Scrub]

This. Pop is to blame (having him come off the bench his entire career, when he was clearly a starter) for Manu's subpar NBA stats. That fact is plain as day. But at the end of the day it was a double edged sword, because we got 4 rings out of it.


Yet you wouldn't be saying this if Harden spent his entire career as a 6th man in OKC.


I’ll give harden the nod slightly

harden = 29/8.1/11.2 55-27 team record
leonard = 25/5.8/3.5 61-21 team record

I think Kawhi's defense should have given him the nod,, but he wasn't as popular. Also Westbrook must be like top 3 worst MVP of all time considering he got it by stat padding on a 6th seed team.

I also thought Dwight could've won it over Rose in 2011. LeBron too but it was his first superteam year so he obviously was going to get a negative effect MVP wise.

[skin27]

Ginobili is obviously in the same tier as D. Wade. Even ESPN retards like Max Kellerman and Stephen A. Smith admit that in the 2000s era Kobe, Wade and Manu were the top 3 SGs

maybe wade..but dirk? No..difference between wade and ginobili is wade had experience being the superstar of his team 2009 and 2010

wade also had a better stats than manu

manu never average 20pts a game in a season his entire career..his best was 19.5 ppg in 2007-2008 season where he won 6th man of the year..

[skin27]

I think Kawhi's defense should have given him the nod,, but he wasn't as popular. Also Westbrook must be like top 3 worst MVP of all time considering he got it by stat padding on a 6th seed team.

I also thought Dwight could've won it over Rose in 2011. LeBron too but it was his first superteam year so he obviously was going to get a negative effect MVP wise.


defense is irrelevant in MVP award..there’s an award for that(dpoy)

[TMTTRIO]

It doesn't help that Manu played for a team like the Spurs as a sixth man his whole career behind 2 other star players. I'm not going to argue who he's better than but I feel like he could've had more AS appearances and be known as a star player if he was a starter and on a bigger market team. It's interesting now after not giving him any recognition how they want to compare a lot of the players coming in as the new Manu Ginobili.

[John B]

Westbrook and Harden are selfish stats padder. Manu is a genuine competitor, out there every night giving 100% effort for the win, regardless of stats, making good plays. MJ and Kobe takeover games too but for the win. Not Harden and Westbrook. Has anyone play pickup game with someone chucking shots like Harden and not winning?? Westbrook with all his empty calorie triple-doubles going home losing? Fuck that. Video game stats that media and millennials embrace, too much sauce without meat.

[DAF86]

Slightly off topic but does anyone have a link (or can copy paste here) Pelton's article about whether or not Manu deserves to be a HoF based solely on his NBA career?

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/19496268/is-manu-ginobili-nba-career-hall-fame-worthy-san-antonio-spurs

[skin27]

Slightly off topic but does anyone have a link (or can copy paste here) Pelton's article about whether or not Manu deserves to be a HoF based solely on his NBA career?

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/19496268/is-manu-ginobili-nba-career-hall-fame-worthy-san-antonio-spurs


If we base it only on his NBA career I think he don’t deserve to be in the hall of fame..same with parker..

The main highlights of manu’s is when he lead Argentina to the gold medal at the Olympics in 2004 and knocked out the US(US Team B)in semifinals.

The question is does ginobili and parker deserves to be a first ballot hall of famer? I think manu is, because of the Olympic gold medal, but parker? I don’t think so

[NameLess Scrub]

defense is irrelevant in MVP award..there’s an award for that(dpoy)

Probably in practice, but I don't agree unless it's called offensive player of the year. Imo value includes offense and defense and DPOY is for players whose value doesn't reach MVP levels overall, but it does defensively.

[skin27]

Probably in practice, but I don't agree unless it's called offensive player of the year. Imo value includes offense and defense and DPOY is for players whose value doesn't reach MVP levels overall, but it does defensively.

MVP is more on offensive side than defensive..a lot players won the MVP despite being bad on defense..


you you don’t need to be good at defense to win the MVP

[Seventyniner]

If we base it only on his NBA career I think he don’t deserve to be in the hall of fame..same with parker..

The main highlights of manu’s is when he lead Argentina to the gold medal at the Olympics in 2004 and knocked out the US(US Team B)in semifinals.

The question is does ginobili and parker deserves to be a first ballot hall of famer? I think manu is, because of the Olympic gold medal, but parker? I don’t think so

Parker had a way better NBA career than Manu in terms of total accomplishments. Manu was always more efficient but Parker played more minutes (~27k for Manu vs ~37k for Parker).

Manu's international career >>>>>>>>> Parker's, of course. But they're both HoF locks. Manu will be first ballot 100%, Parker most likely will be too but there's a small chance he has to wait one extra year.

As to the question "would Manu get in an NBA-only Hall of Fame?", I don't know. He doesn't have nearly the raw numbers that most inductees do. In fact, bkref thinks that Manu would only have a 20% chance of getting in the HoF because they only use NBA numbers. They have Parker at 93.9% and Pau at 93.3%.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolpa01.html

[Pocho La Pantera]

yeah..harden won the gold medal too..and he was young back then..

and besides we’re talking about NBA

like I said harden’s MVP ends the argument..He benefited from others like Manu did from Duncan?

[Arcadian]

It's like a tribute to the 2006 Finals.

[skin27]

He benefited from others like Manu did from Duncan?


We’re talking about NBA