Official 2019 Offseason Thread

[spurraider21]

just over a week away from the draft :hungry:

[Millennial_Messiah]

just over a week away from the draft :hungry:

I guess it makes sense for you to be excited. I'm not. For the first time in years I'll probably just google the first round.

[spurraider21]

raiders schedule is absurdly brutal man... imo 8-8 would be a resounding success this year

vs Denver
vs Chiefs
@ Vikings
@ Colts
vs Bears (London)
bye
@ Packers
@ Texans
vs Lions
vs Chargers
vs Bengals
@ Jets
@ Chiefs
vs Titans
vs Jaguars
@ Chargers
@ Broncos

[Will Hunting]

raiders schedule is absurdly brutal man... imo 8-8 would be a resounding success this year

vs Denver
vs Chiefs
@ Vikings
@ Colts
vs Bears (London)
bye
@ Packers
@ Texans
vs Lions
vs Chargers
vs Bengals
@ Jets
@ Chiefs
vs Titans
vs Jaguars
@ Chargers
@ Broncos
Their division alone makes it so their schedule is brutal imo, pile on the fact they have only 7 home games and it’s even worse. I actually think they win their first 2 games though, Fl:lolcco is simply not good anymore and I see the Chiefs getting off to a slow start with so many personnel changes on defense.

[spurraider21]

Their division alone makes it so their schedule is brutal imo, pile on the fact they have only 7 home games and it’s even worse. I actually think they win their first 2 games though, Fl:lolcco is simply not good anymore and I see the Chiefs getting off to a slow start with so many personnel changes on defense.
the raiders actually played one of their best games last season against the chiefs at home... they lost by 7 and actually had a lead in the 4th quarter. and that's with having 3 different running backs lose fumbles in chiefs territory. the raiders do tend to play their division tough at home. besides that chiefs game, they lost to the chargers by 1 (field goal as time expired) and beat the broncos by 7

[spurraider21]

i think whoever drafts jaylon ferguson in the 2nd round will be very happy with him. he's not likely to go in the first round because he played in a small school and his pro-day measurables were disappointing.

but he plays with a ton of strength... and the small school doesnt concern me too much because he had strong performances in the big games against ranked teams... LSU and Mississippi State. it was the same story with khalil mack. came out of a small school but people weren't concerned because he showed up big against ohio state.

ferguson isn't as good an athlete as mack, but he has a lot of polish as a pass rusher, is strong against the run. his athleticism on tape doesnt look as bad as his pro day numbers suggest. he should be a very good starting 4-3 DE. would love for the raiders to take him at #35, even if they took a defensive end earlier in the draft as well

[Millennial_Messiah]

i think whoever drafts jaylon ferguson in the 2nd round will be very happy with him. he's not likely to go in the first round because he played in a small school and his pro-day measurables were disappointing.

but he plays with a ton of strength... and the small school doesnt concern me too much because he had strong performances in the big games against ranked teams... LSU and Mississippi State. it was the same story with khalil mack. came out of a small school but people weren't concerned because he showed up big against ohio state.

ferguson isn't as good an athlete as mack, but he has a lot of polish as a pass rusher, is strong against the run. his athleticism on tape doesnt look as bad as his pro day numbers suggest. he should be a very good starting 4-3 DE. would love for the raiders to take him at #35, even if they took a defensive end earlier in the draft as well
so

Best case: DeMarcus Lawrence
Worst case: Brandon Graham

type?

[Millennial_Messiah]

Their division alone makes it so their schedule is brutal imo, pile on the fact they have only 7 home games and it’s even worse. I actually think they win their first 2 games though, Fl:lolcco is simply not good anymore and I see the Chiefs getting off to a slow start with so many personnel changes on defense.

Denver should be awful. Maybe the worst record in the AFC considering their division and talent level. Almost all of their 2015 defense is now gone and their offense is pretty putrid.

[spurraider21]

so

Best case: DeMarcus Lawrence
Worst case: Brandon Graham

type?
those aren't poor comparisons. i think michael bennett is another one.

i've been looking into the edge rushers lately quite a bit given the possibility of the raiders trading down...

i think rashan gary is overrated. his measurables are off the charts, and he was the #1 recruit from high school, but he's a very pedestrian pass rusher. he doesnt show moves. doest blow past people like the speed demons, and doesnt really have a great bull rush. he kind of just glides all the time and doesnt get home. his athletic ability shows up more in the run game, and he's a big motor guy, so he does chase down a lot of run plays if the guard in front of him pulls. but man his pass rush moves are ineffective.

clelin ferrell is one of the more underrated edge players in the draft. i'd take him over gary 10/10. he does everything well. he can get around the edge, has a lot of counters, and a go-to inside swim move... basically the one reggie white made famous with the big club. he plays the run pretty well too. he has frank clark written all over him and has the frame to bulk up even more. he's not quite as lengthy, but he has some julius peppers to him too. i dont see why he's getting mocked outside the top 15 (some mocks have him falling to the raiders at #24). he's not a combine warrior, but i think he's a safe pick.

if i'm ranking edge players... i'm going Nick Bosa, Josh Allen (i've shared my thoughts on him, i think he's very good but not a 4-3 DE), Montez Sweat, Clelin Ferrell, Brian Burns, Jaylon Ferguson, Zach Allen all above Rashan Gary, but gary looks like he's going to be a top 10 pick.

- bosa just does everything well. fast enough. plenty strong. fluid around the edge. its lazy to compare him to his brother... but they play very similar. i think joey looks a tad smoother around the edge, but not by much.
- allen looks to be a great OLB. i dont see him being a 4-3 DE at all, though
- sweat is fantastic. phenomenal athlete. speed demon. good strength. plays the run pretty well. if the raiders trade back and take sweat, i'd be thrilled. think he's the best 4-3 DE in the draft besides Bosa. but i think he'd struggle in a 3-4. he doesnt have linebacker instincts.
- ferrell: see above
- brian burns is another speed demon and great athlete. he has 3-4 OLB written all over him. he's mobile and good enough in coverage to play that role, but excels rushing the passer. he gets stood up in the run game, which is why i hesitate to call him a 4-3 DE. i think he's an upper-middle class version of josh allen
- ferguson: discussed him in another post. might even have him above burns
- zach allen is a great base end. basically the guy you'd have playing across your speedy edge rusher. DE in either a 3/4 or 4/3 scheme. demolishes the run, but provides some pass rush too. great bull rush. doesnt bend around the edge very much, but sometimes gets through just on strength. but he should not be your team's best pass rusher.
- rashan gary: see above. you're drafting him based on pedigree and combine numbers, not production. guys like that shouldn't be first round picks, let alone top 10


but maybe i'm wrong and gary taps into all his potential and drastically improves at the NFL level and dominates

[Millennial_Messiah]

those aren't poor comparisons. i think michael bennett is another one.

i've been looking into the edge rushers lately quite a bit given the possibility of the raiders trading down...

i think rashan gary is overrated. his measurables are off the charts, and he was the #1 recruit from high school, but he's a very pedestrian pass rusher. he doesnt show moves. doest blow past people like the speed demons, and doesnt really have a great bull rush. he kind of just glides all the time and doesnt get home. his athletic ability shows up more in the run game, and he's a big motor guy, so he does chase down a lot of run plays if the guard in front of him pulls. but man his pass rush moves are ineffective.

clelin ferrell is one of the more underrated edge players in the draft. i'd take him over gary 10/10. he does everything well. he can get around the edge, has a lot of counters, and a go-to inside swim move... basically the one reggie white made famous with the big club. he plays the run pretty well too. he has frank clark written all over him and has the frame to bulk up even more. he's not quite as lengthy, but he has some julius peppers to him too. i dont see why he's getting mocked outside the top 15 (some mocks have him falling to the raiders at #24). he's not a combine warrior, but i think he's a safe pick.

if i'm ranking edge players... i'm going Nick Bosa, Josh Allen (i've shared my thoughts on him, i think he's very good but not a 4-3 DE), Montez Sweat, Clelin Ferrell, Brian Burns, Jaylon Ferguson, Zach Allen all above Rashan Gary, but gary looks like he's going to be a top 10 pick.

- bosa just does everything well. fast enough. plenty strong. fluid around the edge. its lazy to compare him to his brother... but they play very similar. i think joey looks a tad smoother around the edge, but not by much.
- allen looks to be a great OLB. i dont see him being a 4-3 DE at all, though
- sweat is fantastic. phenomenal athlete. speed demon. good strength. plays the run pretty well. if the raiders trade back and take sweat, i'd be thrilled. think he's the best 4-3 DE in the draft besides Bosa. but i think he'd struggle in a 3-4. he doesnt have linebacker instincts.
- ferrell: see above
- brian burns is another speed demon and great athlete. he has 3-4 OLB written all over him. he's mobile and good enough in coverage to play that role, but excels rushing the passer. he gets stood up in the run game, which is why i hesitate to call him a 4-3 DE. i think he's an upper-middle class version of josh allen
- ferguson: discussed him in another post. might even have him above burns
- zach allen is a great base end. basically the guy you'd have playing across your speedy edge rusher. DE in either a 3/4 or 4/3 scheme. demolishes the run, but provides some pass rush too. great bull rush. doesnt bend around the edge very much, but sometimes gets through just on strength. but he should not be your team's best pass rusher.
- rashan gary: see above. you're drafting him based on pedigree and combine numbers, not production. guys like that shouldn't be first round picks, let alone top 10


but maybe i'm wrong and gary taps into all his potential and drastically improves at the NFL level and dominates
Excellent write up... if they're looking for an immediate Mack replacement, they'll need to cough up #4 plus either the Dallas or Chicago pick to get Bosa. Though you're right he's more of his brother than Mack.

Montez Sweat's 40 time is ridiculous for a DL, pretty much unheard of for that size... blows away the likes of Jevon Kearse, LT, DeMarcus Ware, and Von Miller. His rookie card will get like a 93 speed/95 acceleration in Madden.

Trying to think of a comparison to Zach Allen... maybe a shorter Calais Campbell?

[spurraider21]

i dont think he's that good. campbell is good enough to be your #1 pass rusher too :lol

carlos dunlap, michael johnson, emmanuel ogbah come to mind. i think he's a very good starting DE but probably not your premier one. thats why he's not gonna be a first rounder. gary just scares me...

[spurraider21]

will also note that the guy people keep pointing to as reasons to be optimistic for Rashan Gary is Ezekiel Ansah. ansah only had 4.5 career sacks in 3 years in college, but had all the measurables/tools, and has become (when health) a great NFL player who justified the pick.

[spurraider21]

as you could probably tell given my activity here, its been a slow as fuck week at work (not to mention im already starting to check out given that i'm leaving this job end of next month)... so i've had way too much time on my hands during the day

so without further ado, here is my mock draft for the first round.

i will not be mocking any trades, though there are some teams that are very likely to make moves (jets want to trade out of 3, giants/bengals are both candidates to move up for QB, the raiders could maneuver a ton with 3 picks)

1 - Arizona Cardinals - Kyler Murray, QB. I don't agree with this pick, I think they're going to eat too much value on Rosen, who could still be a very good QB. But this is the worst kept secret, and Klingsbury gets "his guy."

2 - SF 49ers - Nick Bosa, DE. It's a slam dunk pick, and he'd be a great end opposite the speedier Dee Ford. Along with Buckner on the line... they are trying to rebuild their defense to Harbaugh levels.

3 - NY Jets - Josh Allen, OLB. Jets have a need for speed on defense. Gregg Williams has said the Jets are likely to stay with a base 3-4. That makes Quinnen Williams/Ed Oliver odd fits, and they take a dynamite 3-4 OLB who can rush the passer.

4 - Oakland Raiders - Quinnen Williams, DT. The Raiders have a bigger need at DE, but you have to balance need with value. Quinnen is just too good to pass up, and the Raiders want pressure up the middle to deal with Mahomes.

5 - TB Bucs - Devin White, MLB. The Bucs wanted Quinnen here, as McCoy's salary is becoming a problem, and they considered Ed Oliver, but ultimately chose to get a dominant linebacker to fill the void left by Kwon Alexander's exit

6 - NY Giants - Dwayne Haskins, QB. There's some smoke that the Giants really don't want to take a QB here, and much prefer to replace Olivier Vernon by drafting Gary or Sweat, but they cant just sit and hope a decent QB is available at 17.

7 - Jacksonville - Jonah Williams, OT. Best lineman in the draft. They've had issues here, but they want to protect new "franchise QB" Nick Foles and this is a big area of need.

8 - Detroit Lions - Rashan Gary, DE. I've made my feelings on Gary clear, but the Lions want somebody who can replace Ansah as an edge-setting DE that can also provide a pass rush. They think they can mold Gary like they did Ansah. They're also scared off by Sweat's heart condition.

9 - Buffalo Bills - Ed Olver, DT. One of the best value picks in the draft so far, they get an interior disruptor to replace the great Kyle Williams.

10 - Denver Broncos - Drew Lock, QB. Poor Flacco. Elway again decides to try to draft a big, prototypical QB who has accuracy issues. Flacco holds him off for a year, though, until week 15 or so.

11 - Cincinnati Bengals - Devin Bush, LB. Tough spot for Cinci. They really wanted a QB, but the top 3 guys are gone. They need help at LB, but Devin White is gone. Bush is still a plug and play starter and will fill the void left by Burfict.

12 - Green Bay - Jawaan Taylor, OT. Bulaga has been battling health issues, and they want to prolong Rodgers' career after his mammoth contract.

13 - Miami Dolphins - Cody Ford, OT. The Dolphins really want a QB, but the value isn't there. The still commit to the rebuild and pick up a tackle.

14 - Atlanta Falcons - Montez Sweat, DE. Quinn and the Falcons LOVE drafting speed on defense. See Deion Jones, Vic Beasley, Grady Jarrett... all guys who are undersized at their positions but have great athleticism. He falls here because of his heart condition.

15 - Washington Redskins - TJ Hockenson, TE. Even though I said no trades, I'm assuming the Skins deal a second for Josh Rosen. Rather than reaching in a mediocre WR class, they help Rosen by giving him a monster target who is also a great blocking TE. They run a lot of 2 TE sets to promote the run game with Peterson/Guice and Hock eventually replaces Reed.

16 - Carolina Panthers - Brian Burns, DE. Panthers do what Panthers do and load up on D. He learns behind and rotates with Mario Addison and Bruce Irvin.

17 - New York Giants - Clelin Ferrell, DE. After taking a QB at #6, the Giants look to the defensive side to try and replace Olivier Vernon.

18 - Minnesota Vikings - Chase Lindstrom, OG. Vikes offense underachieved despite paying big money for a QB and having great skill position players. They bolster the OL with the best guard in the draft.

19 - Tennessee Titans - Noah Fant, TE. Titans struck out because of the run on DE's a few picks before, so they instead add another offensive weapon who can learn from and ultimately replace the aging Delanie Walker.

20 - Pittsburgh Steelers - Marquise "Hollywood" Brown, WR. Steelers replace AB with an absolute burner of a receiver. Undersized, yes, but the Steelers know how to get the most of their receivers. He's the guy who will take the lid off the defense when Ben buys time.

21 - Seattle Seahawks - Greedy Williams, CB. Seahawks pick up a big corner with good cover skills.

22 - Baltimore Ravens - DK Metcalf, WR. Ravens grab the most physically imposing/impressive receiver in the draft. Basically Kevin White from a few years ago, but with another 15 pounds of muscle. Blazing straight line speed to give Jackson a threat, but equally importantly, his physical frame makes him an imposing downfield blocker to complement the Ravens run-heavy offense. He's basically what they wanted Perriman to be, but bigger.

23 - Houston Texans - DeAndre Baker, CB. Texans replace Kareem Jackson with Baker, an all-around CB with decent size, decent speed, and solid tackling.

24 - Oakland Raiders - Byron Murphy, CB. The Raiders take the last of the "big 3" CB's of the draft. Conley starts one side, but on the other side, Daryl Worley and Nevin Lawson are on one year deals. Murphy is the long term answer there.

25 - Philadelphia Eagles - Josh Jacobs, RB. There were rumors the Eagles wanted LeVeon. While they did acquire Jordan Howard for a late pick, he's not an all around back. Sproles is on his last legs and Clement/Smallwood are mediocre talents.

26 - Indianapolis Colts - Christian Wilkins, DT. The Colts have a good amount of draft capital this year, but they use their first pick on a good sized DT that can get pressure up the middle.

27 - Oakland Raiders - Jaylon Ferguson, DE. The Raiders need a defensive end, and there was a big run on them earlier. They choose between Ferguson and Chase Winovich, ultimately choosing the former because of his bigger frame and superior run defense.

28 - LA Chargers - Jeffery Simmons, DT. The Chargers want an interior disruptor, and they take the gamble on the guy with health concerns, but is a legit top 15 talent.

29 - KC Chiefs - Chase Winovich, DE. The Chiefs defense struggled last year, and they lost Houston and Ford in the offseason. They take the best edge player on the board, who outproduced Rashan Gary, his Michigan counterpart and also performed well at the combine.

30 - Green Bay Packers - Darnell Savage, S. They bolstered their OL earlier, they now take a safety to start opposite FA acquisition Amos. After their great corner picks last year, their secondary looks to be elite.

31 - LA Rams - Mack Wilson, LB. Their linebackers were laughably poor last season. They dont have a second round pick, and the dropoff at LB after Wilson is substantial. They don't have a 2nd round pick either.

32 - NE Patriots - Dexter Lawrence, DT. Strong value pick, fell because run plugging DT is typically not valued in the draft. The Pats lost Malcom Brown, traded for Danny Shelton last year but have yet to re-sign him. Lawrence fills a big need.

[Will Hunting]

^Wouldnt mind the Lawrence pick but New England already upgraded Malcolm Brown when they signed Mike Pennel who was way better than Brown a year ago. They still wanted to sign one more d tackle so they could easily take one in the draft but would be surprised if it was first round.

[Millennial_Messiah]

^Wouldnt mind the Lawrence pick but New England already upgraded Malcolm Brown when they signed Mike Pennel who was way better than Brown a year ago. They still wanted to sign one more d tackle so they could easily take one in the draft but would be surprised if it was first round.

Mike Pennel and Danny Shelton are both the 3-4 NT variety... gotta have 2 big fatties to swap out if you're going to be effective with that front, because at that size they're going to be winded fairly often.

Malcom Brown is a bit lighter but has gotten heavier the last year or so. I always thought he was more of the 4-3 DT, 3-4 IDE variety.

[Millennial_Messiah]

The Giants don't want Haskins and he's been falling, no way he goes to Giants #6. If they pick a QB it's much more likely Lock or Jones. Haskins just isn't that good.

[Will Hunting]

Mike Pennel and Danny Shelton are both the 3-4 NT variety... gotta have 2 big fatties to swap out if you're going to be effective with that front, because at that size they're going to be winded fairly often.

Malcom Brown is a bit lighter but has gotten heavier the last year or so. I always thought he was more of the 4-3 DT, 3-4 IDE variety.
Malcolm Brown is a run stuffing tackle, there’s nothing he brings to the table that Pennel doesnt. Pennel was grades higher by PFF last year in virtually every area.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Malcolm Brown is a run stuffing tackle, there’s nothing he brings to the table that Pennel doesnt. Pennel was grades higher by PFF last year in virtually every area.
There is 1 thing. System. And... he was a 1st round stud out of UT-Austin & Pennel was an UDFA. Not that that means everything but then again neither do PFF grades for ONE year. But Brown has been the heart and soul of the run defense since '15 so he'll certainly be missed. But Belichick will make something work. Still see Pennel as more of a Shelton replacement than a Brown replacement.

[spurraider21]

Pennel is on a 2 year deal. They could still use Lawrence and he’s a good value pick at 32.

[Will Hunting]

There is 1 thing. System. And... he was a 1st round stud out of UT-Austin & Pennel was an UDFA. Not that that means everything but then again neither do PFF grades for ONE year. But Brown has been the heart and soul of the run defense since '15 so he'll certainly be missed. But Belichick will make something work. Still see Pennel as more of a Shelton replacement than a Brown replacement.
Draft pick means absolutely nothing, they’re both guys who’ve been in the NFL for years, recent success and production matters infinitely more than how well a bunch of scouts graded Brown in 2015. Even by your standards using where a player was taken in the draft to compare players who’ve been in the NFL for several years is retarded.

Brown also wasn’t the “heart and soul” of the run defense last year. He was on the field for 44% of the snaps and his production has been on the decline for 3 years now. His PFF grade was 64.4 last year and Pennel’s was 87.1, there’s no possible argument that Brown is better than Pennel at this point.

Danny Shelton was only the field for 30% of the snaps. He was decent when he was on the field but there’s a reason no one has signed him yet. You’re assuming he was important just because he was a former top 10 pick even though he’s been a bust. If they wanted him back they could re sign him on a pretty cheap deal. Outside of Lawrence Guy the Patriots interior D-line was largely disappointing last year which is why Belichick has no interest in bringing back Brown or Shelton.

The Patriots tried signing Darius Philon after signing Pennel which makes it obvious that if they’re looking for anything else at D tackle it’s someone who can get interior pressure, not another run stuffer. Guy/Pennel is enough in terms of run stuffing.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Draft pick means absolutely nothing, they’re both guys who’ve been in the NFL for years, recent success and production matters infinitely more than how well a bunch of scouts graded Brown in 2015. Even by your standards using where a player was taken in the draft to compare players who’ve been in the NFL for several years is retarded.

Brown also wasn’t the “heart and soul” of the run defense last year. He was on the field for 44% of the snaps and his production has been on the decline for 3 years now. His PFF grade was 64.4 last year and Pennel’s was 87.1, there’s no possible argument that Brown is better than Pennel at this point.

Danny Shelton was only the field for 30% of the snaps. He was decent when he was on the field but there’s a reason no one has signed him yet. You’re assuming he was important just because he was a former top 10 pick even though he’s been a bust. If they wanted him back they could re sign him on a pretty cheap deal. Outside of Lawrence Guy the Patriots interior D-line was largely disappointing last year which is why Belichick has no interest in bringing back Brown or Shelton.

The Patriots tried signing Darius Philon after signing Pennel which makes it obvious that if they’re looking for anything else at D tackle it’s someone who can get interior pressure, not another run stuffer. Guy/Pennel is enough in terms of run stuffing.

In general big DTs who don't get more than 2-3 sacks per year are low-demand, low-priced resources. You need about 4 of them to do the dirty work inside but they're all pretty replaceable as long as you have a good coach and scheme, which obviously the Patriots do and some teams don't.

Guy is the best at getting interior pressure (though he's nowhere near a pass rushing DT) so he stays, also because he's solid in the run game.

DE has long been another problem for the Pats, but it's never kept them from being in Super Bowls. They minimize that flaw with the Belichick Double-A Gap Blitz, where two LBs storm the QB in the middle and all the mediocre DEs have to do is play contain and not let the QB escape. It works perfectly because the Pats pay a lot of money to have a veteran elite group of DBs to disallow the quick pass most of the time. That sort of blitz has always been the Pats' ace in the hole, so to speak, whenever they need a stop in the worst way.

[FrostKing]

https://i.ibb.co/xfXvDyf/Screenshot-2019-04-23-09-52-38-1.png

English as a 1st language

[spurraider21]

boom. all but official (pending new contract agreement with clark)

1120741423890956289

now the seahawks have 21 and 29th overall picks. they're almost certain to take a DE at 21 at this point, or they might trade both and move up to take a stud of choice.

in the meantime, chiefs let justin houston and dee ford go but brought in a younger and more expensive talent.

[FrostKing]

boom. all but official (pending new contract agreement with clark)

1120741423890956289

now the seahawks have 21 and 29th overall picks. they're almost certain to take a DE at 21 at this point, or they might trade both and move up to take a stud of choice.

in the meantime, chiefs let justin houston and dee ford go but brought in a younger and more expensive talent.
He's going Number 1 overall in your little negroid draft

https://d1dxvryen9goi5.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/sri-lanka-21.jpg

[spurraider21]

He's going Number 1 overall in your little negroid draft
you're a sad puppy

[spurraider21]

man, frank clark ate the raiders alive last year... now we gotta deal with him twice a year for the foreseeable future.

AFC W continues to have the best pass rushers in the league... von miller and bradley chubb in denver, joey bosa and melvin ingram in san diego, frank clark and chris jones in kansas city. meanwhile we traded khalil mack :lol

[Will Hunting]

boom. all but official (pending new contract agreement with clark)

1120741423890956289

now the seahawks have 21 and 29th overall picks. they're almost certain to take a DE at 21 at this point, or they might trade both and move up to take a stud of choice.

in the meantime, chiefs let justin houston and dee ford go but brought in a younger and more expensive talent.
Trade makes sense, the only way Spags runs a successful defense is a loaded front 4 that can get pressure while he drops 7 into coverage.

[spurraider21]

Trade makes sense, the only way Spags runs a successful defense is a loaded front 4 that can get pressure while he drops 7 into coverage.
if you cancel out the second round picks... they traded Dee Ford and the #29 pick for Frank Clark

clark is a much more natural 4-3 fit than Ford was, but that still seems kinda steep.

[Will Hunting]

if you cancel out the second round picks... they traded Dee Ford and the #29 pick for Frank Clark

clark is a much more natural 4-3 fit than Ford was, but that still seems kinda steep.
It's definitely steep, but without a stud 4-3 edge rusher their defense was going to be even shittier than it was a year ago. Clark is young enough and showed enough promise last year (imo) where it was worth trading a 1st rounder for him. They still need one more good pass rusher beyond Clark and Jones for the incredibly uncreative playcalling of Spags to work.

[spurraider21]

It's definitely steep, but without a stud 4-3 edge rusher their defense was going to be even shittier than it was a year ago. Clark is young enough and showed enough promise last year (imo) where it was worth trading a 1st rounder for him. They still need one more good pass rusher beyond Clark and Jones for the incredibly uncreative playcalling of Spags to work.
Suh and Ansah are still free agents :lol

[spurraider21]

5 years 105.5 million for Frank Clark in Kansas City. so its the demarcus lawrence deal + a first round pick

[Raven]

wow, seattle absolutely robbed the chiefs.. not surprised thought, coach and front office are top notch, no doubt. Too bad they are stuck will RW.

[spurraider21]

Dee Ford was getting paid 5/85

They traded him and a first round pick to get Frank Clark and pay him 5/105.

both had 13 sacks last year

all for scheme fit? it just seems excessive. but KC is in win now mode with mahomes/hill/kelce clicking. you can also afford to pay other guys massive bucks while mahomes is on his rookie deal

[Will Hunting]

Suh and Ansah are still free agents :lol
Suh wouldn't be bad imo except they probably need a run stuffer next to Chris Jones on 1st and 2nd down, Suh would be great as a pass rushing specialist. He was a shitty fit in LA's 3-4 but he's probably got 2-3 more years of solid production as a 4-3 D-Tackle.

[Will Hunting]

Dee Ford was getting paid 5/85

They traded him and a first round pick to get Frank Clark and pay him 5/105.

both had 13 sacks last year

all for scheme fit? it just seems excessive. but KC is in win now mode with mahomes/hill/kelce clicking. you can also afford to pay other guys massive bucks while mahomes is on his rookie deal
I'm in complete agreement that hiring Spags and investing this much in a scheme change is retarded, but once they hired Spags and invested in his system this move was needed.

It would have been a lot easier and simpler to get rid of the extremely shitty DC they had and replace him with another 3-4 guy who isn't grossly incompetent.

[Millennial_Messiah]

5 years 105.5 million for Frank Clark in Kansas City. so its the demarcus lawrence deal + a first round pick

And Clark isn't nearly as complete of a 4-3 DE as Lawrence who is perennially ranked top 5 against the run for his position. Clark is more of a Dee Ford type or Randy Gregory when he's not suspended.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I'm in complete agreement that hiring Spags and investing this much in a scheme change is retarded, but once they hired Spags and invested in his system this move was needed.

It would have been a lot easier and simpler to get rid of the extremely shitty DC they had and replace him with another 3-4 guy who isn't grossly incompetent.
right... Dom Capers is available and he's done lots of great things before Green Bay lost all their defensive talent

[Millennial_Messiah]

wow, seattle absolutely robbed the chiefs.. not surprised thought, coach and front office are top notch, no doubt. Too bad they are stuck will RW.

They now have two firsts that they could have used to trade up for a QB and replace RW, but too late now...

[Millennial_Messiah]

Trade makes sense, the only way Spags runs a successful defense is a loaded front 4 that can get pressure while he drops 7 into coverage.

Sort of like how the NFC East teams beat the Patriots in all 3 of their last meetings, by rushing only four every down. (Eagles gave up 600 yards and 33 points though.)

[spurraider21]

chiefs coulda just signed trey flowers instead of trading for frank clark. keep a first rounder.

it boggles my mind that they dumped a first rounder. clark is a really good player but he's not elite.

[spurraider21]

also, random vid but holy shit...

1117096062207123456

[Millennial_Messiah]

chiefs coulda just signed trey flowers instead of trading for frank clark. keep a first rounder.

it boggles my mind that they dumped a first rounder. clark is a really good player but he's not elite.

Trey Flowers is a LDE/strong side DE. Very similar player to the Eagles' Brandon Graham. Not going to get more than a solid 7-8 sacks per season but is elite against the run and often comes up with that timely sack/fumble in the playoffs, especially if he's playing DT on passing downs.

Clark is the opposite. Weakside, speed, quick twitch, a monster off the edge on passing downs... below average against the run.

Not really an apple to apples comparison IMO.

[Millennial_Messiah]

chiefs coulda just signed trey flowers instead of trading for frank clark. keep a first rounder.

it boggles my mind that they dumped a first rounder. clark is a really good player but he's not elite.

Chiefs are in win now mode so I think they figure that any late 1st round rookie wouldn't help them as much as a guy in his prime. Once they pay Mahomes his record-shattering $45 Million/Year (85-90% guaranteed), 7+ year contract, they'll basically be another one of "those" teams that makes the playoffs many years just on the QB's arm, but won't be a perennial, every-year contender... think the Chargers, Colts, Falcons, Packers, even the Saints.

[spurraider21]

The Kyler Murray/Josh Rosen situation is leading to some great drama tbh :lol

looks like they're holding out for a first round pick. washington has balked at that and is planning to move into the top 5. there are some crazy reports coming in that Dan Snyder has essentially "taken over" the Redskins first round of the draft, instead of the GM, Coaches, etc. They're gonna do something crazy

1121123915340898305

1121109780133818368


Would be quite the boss move if Arizona is able to turn their posturing into a massive draft haul for #1 while they just do the simple thing and keep Rosen. though ideally the skins trade up to #2 to draft a QB, increasing the chance that bosa miraculously falls to 4

[Millennial_Messiah]

The Kyler Murray/Josh Rosen situation is leading to some great drama tbh :lol

looks like they're holding out for a first round pick. washington has balked at that and is planning to move into the top 5. there are some crazy reports coming in that Dan Snyder has essentially "taken over" the Redskins first round of the draft, instead of the GM, Coaches, etc. They're gonna do something crazy

1121123915340898305

1121109780133818368


Would be quite the boss move if Arizona is able to turn their posturing into a massive draft haul for #1 while they just do the simple thing and keep Rosen. though ideally the skins trade up to #2 to draft a QB, increasing the chance that bosa miraculously falls to 4

Redskins are gonna go out of their way to get Haskins. I think he's their guy. I never saw him with the Giants anyways. Giants will likely draft other pieces and get a developmental guy like Grier. They could go after Lock or Jones though.

[spurraider21]

Redskins are gonna go out of their way to get Haskins. I think he's their guy. I never saw him with the Giants anyways. Giants will likely draft other pieces and get a developmental guy like Grier. They could go after Lock or Jones though.
1121110364882706432

1121112385568288773

[Millennial_Messiah]

1121110364882706432

1121112385568288773

But do the Redskins have enough assets to trade up to 4? They'd probably have to give up 1st, 2nd from the next 2 drafts plus a decent young player on a rookie contract AND a couple mid round picks. 15 to 4 is an incredibly high jump.

[spurraider21]

the tweet above says the bucs are a potential trade partner, but if the skins truly want haskins, they likely have to move higher to be safe. there is enough buzz that the jets are trying to trade down, and there is some buzz (i dont buy) that the raiders like haskins at #4 as well. moving up to 5 wouldn't make sense. they'd have to let the first 4 picks play out and then jump. but if they really want haskins, they have to be proactive and move up to #4 and possibly #3

[spurraider21]

1091735628830728192

[Millennial_Messiah]

the tweet above says the bucs are a potential trade partner, but if the skins truly want haskins, they likely have to move higher to be safe. there is enough buzz that the jets are trying to trade down, and there is some buzz (i dont buy) that the raiders like haskins at #4 as well. moving up to 5 wouldn't make sense. they'd have to let the first 4 picks play out and then jump. but if they really want haskins, they have to be proactive and move up to #4 and possibly #3

If Nick Bosa isn't there I think any trade down is a good idea for the Raiders. There isn't really much difference between the "upper" red chippers and the other red chippers, as true for most drafts. Denzel Ward and Derwin James picks could have easily been swapped tbh, but Ward went 4th and James went 17th. Doesn't make Ward 13 premium picks better than James, but it comes down to a) team-based needs and b) how well a workout with an individual team went.

[spurraider21]

If Nick Bosa isn't there I think any trade down is a good idea for the Raiders. There isn't really much difference between the "upper" red chippers and the other red chippers, as true for most drafts. Denzel Ward and Derwin James picks could have easily been swapped tbh, but Ward went 4th and James went 17th. Doesn't make Ward 13 premium picks better than James, but it comes down to a) team-based needs and b) how well a workout with an individual team went.
barring some absurd offer like the redskins trying to move down to 4... i think the raiders should absolutely stand pat at 4 and select Quinnen Williams (assuming he's available. or obviously bosa who has almost 0% chance of falling past 2). he's a blue chipper.

if bosa/quinnen are gone with the raiders on the clock, that means murray is the only QB off the board, and teams like the giants/bengals/dolphins/redskins are biting at the chomp to move up and get their QB of choice. you'd have good trade-down opportunities. but if you're not getting great offers, there's no pressure, as Josh Allen is still a really strong pick there. i dont want to see the raiders taking a QB there, nor should they reach for Ed Oliver. i think 4 is too early for him.

derwin james is not a great example... his fall was completed unexpected. he wasn't supposed to get past 12. ward was easily the top corner prospect in the draft, but nobody expected him to go as high as #4

[Millennial_Messiah]

barring some absurd offer like the redskins trying to move down to 4... i think the raiders should absolutely stand pat at 4 and select Quinnen Williams (assuming he's available. or obviously bosa who has almost 0% chance of falling past 2). he's a blue chipper.

if bosa/quinnen are gone with the raiders on the clock, that means murray is the only QB off the board, and teams like the giants/bengals/dolphins/redskins are biting at the chomp to move up and get their QB of choice. you'd have good trade-down opportunities. but if you're not getting great offers, there's no pressure, as Josh Allen is still a really strong pick there. i dont want to see the raiders taking a QB there, nor should they reach for Ed Oliver. i think 4 is too early for him.

derwin james is not a great example... his fall was completed unexpected. he wasn't supposed to get past 12. ward was easily the top corner prospect in the draft, but nobody expected him to go as high as #4
But like you said Josh Allen is a red chipper, upper red chipper or not, so that's worst case scenario. #4 overall should be a franchise player and not sure you want to spend that on Anthony Barr or Bruce Irvin. A guy who can do a lot of everything but isn't a monster at anything.

[spurraider21]

But like you said Josh Allen is a red chipper, upper red chipper or not, so that's worst case scenario. #4 overall should be a franchise player and not sure you want to spend that on Anthony Barr or Bruce Irvin. A guy who can do a lot of everything but isn't a monster at anything.
i think he's close. he's a blue chipper in a 3-4 scheme imo, as a natural fit for OLB. i just dont think 4-3 OLBs are ever really considered blue chippers. but his talent is obvious. he'd still be a very good OLB because he has really good coverage skills and is aggressive vs the run, but positional value becomes a concern... and that's why i dont think he's in the bosa/quinnen tier from a raider fan perspective. it would depend on the trade-down package they get. if teams are fighting to move up for a QB, then i dont think it would take too much convincing. but they shouldnt trade down just for the sake of trading down unless the offer is right. they can fall back 5-10 spots and wind up with sweat/gary/burns which would be a good deal imo.

but if they dont get a good offer and take Josh Allen its still a decent pick. just not the ideal scenario (Quinnen)

[Millennial_Messiah]

i think he's close. he's a blue chipper in a 3-4 scheme imo, as a natural fit for OLB. i just dont think 4-3 OLBs are ever really considered blue chippers. but his talent is obvious. he'd still be a very good OLB because he has really good coverage skills and is aggressive vs the run, but positional value becomes a concern... and that's why i dont think he's in the bosa/quinnen tier from a raider fan perspective. it would depend on the trade-down package they get. if teams are fighting to move up for a QB, then i dont think it would take too much convincing. but they shouldnt trade down just for the sake of trading down unless the offer is right. they can fall back 5-10 spots and wind up with sweat/gary/burns which would be a good deal imo.

but if they dont get a good offer and take Josh Allen its still a decent pick. just not the ideal scenario (Quinnen)

I just hard to think there is such a thing as a blue chip 3-4 OLB who isn't going to be close to a perennial 13-15+ sack-a-year average guy. When you think of the "blue chip" 3-4 OLBs you think of the elite speedy sack demons off the edge... the LTs, Von Millers, DeMarcus Wares, Khalil Macks, Myles Garretts etc. of the world.

What you have in Allen is a hybrid. He's definitely not "perfect" for a 3-4 OLB mold but he'll likely land there if he gets drafted to a 3-4 team, though he might not rush the passer in base (5 man front, the standard 3-4 base formation) and play either EDGE rusher or coverage ILB in sub/passing downs (4 man fronts). What I think he is is a perfect 4-3 OLB but like you said, that's just not such a premium position even though it can make an impact.

The only way I see him thriving as a 3-4 OLB is if it's more of a "zone blitz" type unpredictable 3-4 scheme like the one Dom Capers ran in Green Bay all those years. Gives him pass rushing snaps and drops him back at times, dropping other guys on the line at random. Allen could be the next Clay Matthews perhaps in a 3-4. But a full time pass rusher, he is not. He's a tailor made Anthony Barr, Bruce Irvin like 4-3 OLB.

[spurraider21]

Allen is a perfect 3-4 OLB

garrett is exclusively a 4-3 guy. Mack can play either. Von/Ware are best in 3-4.

allen will still be a good 4-3 backer, but i don’t see him as 4-3 DE. Main reason being i don’t think he holds up in the run game against tackles though he can dominate tight ends. In a 3-4, the DE’s do a lot of dirty work in the run game

the difference seems minor, and for some players, it can be interchangeable, but not everybody works well in both schemes. its why the Chiefs trade Dee Ford and traded for Frank Clark. they are moving from 3-4 (where Ford was a good OLB) to a 4-3 (where Ford doesnt perfectly fit). i think josh allen could still play in a 4-3 as a linebacker because he's strong in coverage, too.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Allen is a perfect 3-4 OLB

garrett is exclusively a 4-3 guy. Mack can play either. Von/Ware are best in 3-4.

allen will still be a good 4-3 backer, but i don’t see him as 4-3 DE. Main reason being i don’t think he holds up in the run game against tackles though he can dominate tight ends. In a 3-4, the DE’s do a lot of dirty work in the run game

the difference seems minor, and for some players, it can be interchangeable, but not everybody works well in both schemes. its why the Chiefs trade Dee Ford and traded for Frank Clark. they are moving from 3-4 (where Ford was a good OLB) to a 4-3 (where Ford doesnt perfectly fit). i think josh allen could still play in a 4-3 as a linebacker because he's strong in coverage, too.

A 3-4 OLB takes on tackles the majority of the time these days. Often but not always on based downs, but definitely on longer/sub package downs. Because even a base 3-4 defense is primarily a 4-2-5 nickel defense where the "OLBs" actually play DE a majority of the time (you usually just take the biggest or least talented guy off the interior of the Dline). So a 3-4 OLB plays on-ball, hand-in-the-dirt DE technique a majority of snaps in today's NFL... which isn't Josh Allen's game, as we've both alluded to.

Unless you want the guy to be a Jack linebacker... basically a 3-4 OLB (not the primary pass rusher) who can either drop back or blitz on base downs and play off ball ILB on sub package downs when you substitute in a "pass rush specialist" in his sub package DE spot on pass downs... but that seems like a waste of resources.

[spurraider21]

A 3-4 OLB takes on tackles the majority of the time these days. Often but not always on based downs, but definitely on longer/sub package downs. Because even a base 3-4 defense is primarily a 4-2-5 nickel defense where the "OLBs" actually play DE a majority of the time (you usually just take the biggest or least talented guy off the interior of the Dline). So a 3-4 OLB plays on-ball, hand-in-the-dirt DE technique a majority of snaps in today's NFL... which isn't Josh Allen's game, as we've both alluded to.

Unless you want the guy to be a Jack linebacker... basically a 3-4 OLB (not the primary pass rusher) who can either drop back or blitz on base downs and play off ball ILB on sub package downs when you substitute in a "pass rush specialist" in his sub package DE spot on pass downs... but that seems like a waste of resources.
you're right that at some point, the positional distinctions become silly. i think he can beat tackles on pass rushing downs. i just dont see him taking on tackles every down because he wouldnt hold up against the run. so the raiders still have room for him, he'd be an OLB in base and a DE in nickel. raiders beat writers dont seem to think the raiders love josh allen. they want Quinnen or Ed Oliver. of course theres also the QB wildcard but the raiders writers dont really seem to believe the haskins at #4 stuff

[Millennial_Messiah]

you're right that at some point, the positional distinctions become silly. i think he can beat tackles on pass rushing downs. i just dont see him taking on tackles every down because he wouldnt hold up against the run. so the raiders still have room for him, he'd be an OLB in base and a DE in nickel. raiders beat writers dont seem to think the raiders love josh allen. they want Quinnen or Ed Oliver. of course theres also the QB wildcard but the raiders writers dont really seem to believe the haskins at #4 stuff

Because they just cut that guy...Bruce Irvin... even though he's older he still was good. That's the type of player Allen is. At least the Seattle version of Irvin anyways.

[spurraider21]

Because they just cut that guy...Bruce Irvin... even though he's older he still was good. That's the type of player Allen is. At least the Seattle version of Irvin anyways.
irvin had been a full time DE for us. besides right now we have arden key on one side, and he's already a small DE.

[Millennial_Messiah]

irvin had been a full time DE for us. besides right now we have arden key on one side, and he's already a small DE.
I wouldn't count on Key. He has attitude issues, considers football "just a job", and has been a drug addict in the past. I wouldn't be surprised if he follows the David Irving route out of the NFL at some point.

Irvin wasn't good enough to hold up against the run at DE, and neither will Allen. I read somewhere in 2016 that teams were twice as effective in terms of YPG at running off left tackle (Irvin's side) than right tackle (Mack's side) that year.

If the Raiders draft him I think they use him like the Cowboys use Jaylon Smith. Either drop him in coverage or use his athleticism in creative blitzes, including up the gut or on the back side of a stunt. He doesn't have enough moves or power to get enough sacks in man-to-man pressure situations, even on 3rd and long. To get him sacks you'll need to scheme him free.

[spurraider21]

crazy that Suh and Gerald McCoy are both free agents tbh

[Millennial_Messiah]

crazy that Suh and Gerald McCoy are both free agents tbh

Cowboys can go get a 1-Tech and a 3-Tech, right now... boom.

[Darth_Pelican]

crazy that Suh and Gerald McCoy are both free agents tbh

Suh to the Bucs

[spurraider21]

and Gerald McCoy to the Panthers. their front looks loaded right now.

3-4 with Gerald McCoy and Kawann Short surrounding Dontari Poe.

pass rushing OLB's will be Mario Addison, Brian Burns, and Bruce Irvin. Shaq Thompson still in the mix.

they need the passing game to work though, dumpoffs to CMC are nice but Cam needs to get the downfield game working. a lot of pressure on youngsters like DJ Moore and Curtis Samuel to make it work. they still seem ridiculously reliant on CMC, but he's known for his durability

[spurraider21]

Trent Williams demanding to be traded or released for Washington and vows to never play for them again... damn

cleveland would be a natural candidate

[Will Hunting]

Trent Williams demanding to be traded or released for Washington and vows to never play for them again... damn

cleveland would be a natural candidate
Washington should be able to get a good return for him, there are so many teams with dogshit at left tackle right now.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Washington should be able to get a good return for him, there are so many teams with dogshit at left tackle right now.

and who knows if Isaiah Wynn is going to be any good, missing one's full rookie year derails over 70% of careers, including roughly half of first round picks, historically. But Belichick won't bite because he knows he can win with any QB, I guess.

I read somewhere that Seattle was interested in moving Duane Brown to RT and cutting Ifedi, that one makes sense since your QB has been sacked more than any other QB since 2012 and he's also the highest paid player in the history of football.

[spurraider21]

pats dont have the cap room to bring him on tbh

texans could use him as a stopgap so their small school first round prospect can develop for a year. they have cap space

[Millennial_Messiah]

pats dont have the cap room to bring him on tbh

texans could use him as a stopgap so their small school first round prospect can develop for a year. they have cap space
Texans line is historically awful and has been for some time, but they don't like to invest there... they like defense (mainly front 7) and skill players on offense

[Millennial_Messiah]

and Gerald McCoy to the Panthers. their front looks loaded right now.

3-4 with Gerald McCoy and Kawann Short surrounding Dontari Poe.

pass rushing OLB's will be Mario Addison, Brian Burns, and Bruce Irvin. Shaq Thompson still in the mix.

they need the passing game to work though, dumpoffs to CMC are nice but Cam needs to get the downfield game working. a lot of pressure on youngsters like DJ Moore and Curtis Samuel to make it work. they still seem ridiculously reliant on CMC, but he's known for his durability

Shaq Thompson likely lines up next to Kueckly at ILB full time. Addison/Burns are the primary weakside edge rushers and Irvin is the starting Jack linebacker, who can both rush or drop into coverage roughly equally well. They need a backup for him, though. Love the interior 3.

[Millennial_Messiah]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26906474/cops-bell-girlfriends-520k-jewelry-vanish

"The police report obtained by The Associated Press refers to the two women as Bell's girlfriends."


Open polygamy in the USA :lmao

[Will Hunting]

and who knows if Isaiah Wynn is going to be any good, missing one's full rookie year derails over 70% of careers, including roughly half of first round picks, historically. But Belichick won't bite because he knows he can win with any QB, I guess.

I read somewhere that Seattle was interested in moving Duane Brown to RT and cutting Ifedi, that one makes sense since your QB has been sacked more than any other QB since 2012 and he's also the highest paid player in the history of football.
Yeah, a year ago you said that losing Nate Solder and replacing him with Trent Brown was going to be the Patriots' downfall and look how that turned out, so thanks again for your dramatic diagnosis this year.

Belichick won't bite because he doesn't have the cap space and also isn't concerned with the line. He has maybe the best offensive line coach in NFL history to get Wynn up to speed, and returns 4 of 5 starters from a great unit a year ago, he isn't going to break the bank on a veteran left tackle.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Yeah, a year ago you said that losing Nate Solder and replacing him with Trent Brown was going to be the Patriots' downfall and look how that turned out, so thanks again for your dramatic diagnosis this year.

Belichick won't bite because he doesn't have the cap space and also isn't concerned with the line. He has maybe the best offensive line coach in NFL history to get Wynn up to speed, and returns 4 of 5 starters from a great unit a year ago, he isn't going to break the bank on a veteran left tackle.

You're right that Trent Brown's deficiencies, especially against speed in pass protection, were negated by the great interior and coaching. Wynn will be a liability his first year but I don't know if it'll be a big time issue because DS and Thuney are excellent. Thuney is one of the best pass protecting guards, Andrews great at pass pro, above average run blocking and hasn't had a bad snap (think Unger, Andre Gurode), Mason is an absolute destroyer in the run game and Cannon is a well techniqued protector when he's healthy and also a positive in the run game. That line should be okay, still top 10.

[Avant]

How can the Eagles justify paying Wentz that kind of $$$$$$$$, the guy has done nothing. My prediction....he will be hurt before Turkeyday.

Time to move on from that Tyreek Hill situation, if they can't figure it out by now, fuck it. YES, if he did hurt a kid, shoot him.

My Niners getting a lot of love, now let's see if Jimmy G is the real deal.

Will Eli end the season as the STILL the starter?

Would love to see the Raiders back in the mix, the game is better...but....have my doubts.

Hearing nothing but good things about mini Kyler Murray. But, still see another RGIII only smaller. No Murray isn't faster than what RGIII was. He was a legit track star.

This should be the year the Colts take over that division. Luck by far the best QB there.

I do expect Lamar Jackson to start heading towards......well he can run.....but, bust.

As of right now.....

Top QB's

1.Aaron Rodgers
2.Tom Brady
3.Drew Brees
4.Russell Wilson
5.Big Ben
6.Patrick Mahomes
7.Philip Rivers
8.Andrew Luck
9.Matt Ryan
10.Carson Wentz

[spurraider21]

asks how they can pay a guy so much money?

then proceeds to have him as a top 10 QB in the league at age 26

[Pelicans78]

asks how they can pay a guy so much money?

then proceeds to have him as a top 10 QB in the league at age 26

I was thinking the same thing :rollin

[Millennial_Messiah]

I don't think you can justify Big Ben or Matt Ryan in the top 10 anymore. The Failcons completely crumbled last year even with Julio doing his usual thing. Pittsburgh is going to be below average next year with their 2 best players both gone for good now, and this time around (unlike 2011-2013) they don't have a top defense to atone for that and even get them to the 8-9 win range. Pittsburgh is a 5-6 win team this year.

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1138332297441218560

[spurraider21]

raiders confirmed for hard knocks :lol

[Will Hunting]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26963003/source-pats-acquire-te-roberts-lions

Patriots seem to be desperate for a tight end and they're not even trying to keep a poker face like they normally would. Roberts should be a good Dwayne Allen replacement but he's not a pass catching threat at all.

Gronk did fuck them by waiting as long as he did to retire but they should have had a plan in place either way, he wasn't going to be an every down TE even if he came back this year.

[Sir Johnny]

Got my yearly Lindy's Football mag.

According to them, there are six QB's who rate a 9/9.5

9.5....Brees, Mahommes, Brady
9.0....Wilson, Luck, Rivers

The only 10 was....Coach Belichick

The lowest rating was a 5.5, that was the Raiders DL, Buc's DB's.

Here are the 9's

RB....Cowboys, Giants
WR....Browns
OL....Eagles
DL...Redskins
LB....Bears
DB...none

Their SB pick....Saints beat Chargers

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Adrian Peterson gains 400 yard this season he moves past Bettis into 7th all time rushing. If he has another1000 yard season, he will end up in 5th place.

Brees will pass Peyton for All time TD passes when he throws his 20th TD pass this season.

Jerry Rice is so far out there his records will never be broken. Over 22,000 yards receiving, nobody else with even 17,000 that is hard to believe.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

and Gerald McCoy to the Panthers. their front looks loaded right now.

3-4 with Gerald McCoy and Kawann Short surrounding Dontari Poe.

pass rushing OLB's will be Mario Addison, Brian Burns, and Bruce Irvin. Shaq Thompson still in the mix.

they need the passing game to work though, dumpoffs to CMC are nice but Cam needs to get the downfield game working. a lot of pressure on youngsters like DJ Moore and Curtis Samuel to make it work. they still seem ridiculously reliant on CMC, but he's known for his durability

You’ve been doing your research. Impressed.

[Millennial_Messiah]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26963003/source-pats-acquire-te-roberts-lions

Patriots seem to be desperate for a tight end and they're not even trying to keep a poker face like they normally would. Roberts should be a good Dwayne Allen replacement but he's not a pass catching threat at all.

Gronk did fuck them by waiting as long as he did to retire but they should have had a plan in place either way, he wasn't going to be an every down TE even if he came back this year.
They're all JAGs. Losing Hogan sucked, too. But I think Dontrelle Inman is a true #1 receiver who can get over 1k yards and 12+ TDs if he plays a full season. I don't think D.Thomas is good anymore and he's slow and injured. Josh Gordon isn't walking through that door anytime soon.

I think the rookie WR they picked high isn't really a WR but instead is a good WR/TE hybrid and line up in similar places to Gronk, though, and eventually take his place with about 20 more pounds of muscle, though it could take a year or two for him to settle into the league.

[spurraider21]

lol inman is nowhere near that

[Millennial_Messiah]

lol inman is nowhere near that

He's been excellent in limited snaps whenever he's played with a decent QB (Rivers and Luck). He does just about everything well. He's 6'3", 4.4 speed, terrific route runner and excellent at winning contested catches. The problem has been staying healthy and getting enough snaps to make his stats look good enough to get him paid because he wasn't a top draft prospect out of UVA so he doesn't have the name pedigree that a guy like Sammy Watkins does even though Inman is 5x the player Watkins is.

[spurraider21]

He's been excellent in limited snaps whenever he's played with a decent QB (Rivers and Luck). He does just about everything well. He's 6'3", 4.4 speed, terrific route runner and excellent at winning contested catches. The problem has been staying healthy and getting enough snaps to make his stats look good enough to get him paid because he wasn't a top draft prospect out of UVA so he doesn't have the name pedigree that a guy like Sammy Watkins does even though Inman is 5x the player Watkins is.
a lot of guys have good heigh and speed, that doesnt made you a bona fide #1 receiver. look at brice butler.

inman has never produced anything resembling #1 numbers

[Millennial_Messiah]

a lot of guys have good heigh and speed, that doesnt made you a bona fide #1 receiver. look at brice butler.

inman has never produced anything resembling #1 numbers

in the Chargers' lost 2016 season he had some pretty impressive game splits, even though he didn't get to play much he had over 800 yards.

Inman is way better than Brice Butler, though I get your point, Butler was very limited on the route tree (outside receiver only; good at only streaks and comebacks which made him easier to defend) but that's in part because his agility was limited compared to Inman's.

Inman is 30 so he's not going to make the HOF but he had that level of talent if he had been in the right system. If he makes the Pats he's going to be their best receiver in due time, could see the biggest numbers they've had since Cooks or even Moss.

As far as the Pats go in general, I think they have a league-average roster talent wise (12-17 range) but you could say that about them last year as well even with Gronk, or in 2016 when Gronk went out... they have by far the best coaches in the league (HC, OC, OL coach) so they'll make it work and almost certainly be the #1 seed considering KC is taking a big step backward without Hill and the Browns are just too young to be the best team in the AFC.

[spurraider21]

in the Chargers' lost 2016 season he had some pretty impressive game splits, even though he didn't get to play much he had over 800 yards.

Inman is way better than Brice Butler, though I get your point, Butler was very limited on the route tree (outside receiver only; good at only streaks and comebacks which made him easier to defend) but that's in part because his agility was limited compared to Inman's.

Inman is 30 so he's not going to make the HOF but he had that level of talent if he had been in the right system. If he makes the Pats he's going to be their best receiver in due time, could see the biggest numbers they've had since Cooks or even Moss.

As far as the Pats go in general, I think they have a league-average roster talent wise (12-17 range) but you could say that about them last year as well even with Gronk, or in 2016 when Gronk went out... they have by far the best coaches in the league (HC, OC, OL coach) so they'll make it work and almost certainly be the #1 seed considering KC is taking a big step backward without Hill and the Browns are just too young to be the best team in the AFC.
so take the best season he ever had in a perfect situation where the #1 receiver was out for the year, thrusting him into a starting role, and the team's defense was poor, forcing them to go very pass heavy, he put up 800 yards and 4 TD's while playing with a pro bowl QB. and you think he's a bona fide #1 who you have pegged for 1k yards and 12+ TD's

[Will Hunting]

a lot of guys have good heigh and speed, that doesnt made you a bona fide #1 receiver. look at brice butler.

inman has never produced anything resembling #1 numbers
He has like a 20% chance at making the roster :lol, I have no idea why MM thinks he’a going to be some big piece this year.

[Millennial_Messiah]

so take the best season he ever had in a perfect situation where the #1 receiver was out for the year, thrusting him into a starting role, and the team's defense was poor, forcing them to go very pass heavy, he put up 800 yards and 4 TD's while playing with a pro bowl QB. and you think he's a bona fide #1 who you have pegged for 1k yards and 12+ TD's

If he makes the team, yes. One weakness about the Pats is they tend to cut good receivers who sometimes go other places and do well. But I think with a good system in place he can get those numbers. The issue for him is always snap count, whenever he gets snaps he gets open and produces.

[Will Hunting]

If he makes the team, yes. One weakness about the Pats is they tend to cut good receivers who sometimes go other places and do well. But I think with a good system in place he can get those numbers. The issue for him is always snap count, whenever he gets snaps he gets open and produces.
The fact you’re qualifying it with “if he makes the team” negates everything else you’re saying. If he’s a true #1 receiver then there wouldn’t be a snowballs chance in hell of him getting cut.

[Millennial_Messiah]

The fact you’re qualifying it with “if he makes the team” negates everything else you’re saying. If he’s a true #1 receiver then there wouldn’t be a snowballs chance in hell of him getting cut.
He's one of those guys who surprises, doing better on the field than practicing or in games that don't count. He's a clutch performer. I remember his game where he and Tyrell Williams tag teamed to make about 20 spectacular catches in the second half and came back from 3 scores down and beat the Falcons in Atlanta, the same year the Falcons ended up making the Super Bowl.

[Will Hunting]

He's one of those guys who surprises, doing better on the field than practicing or in games that don't count. He's a clutch performer. I remember his game where he and Tyrell Williams tag teamed to make about 20 spectacular catches in the second half and came back from 3 scores down and beat the Falcons in Atlanta, the same year the Falcons ended up making the Super Bowl.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201610230atl.htm

He had 3 receptions for 58 yards in that game (24 of those yards came in the 1st half, so only 34 yards in this amazing 2nd half he allegedly had). Tyrell Williams had 7 receptions for 140 yards. I guess you can say he and Tyrell Williams "tag teamed" to make a 2nd half comeback, but I'd hardly call a 3 reception 58 yard game some amazingly clutch performance and evidence that he's a #1 receiver.

As usual, you're making shit up.

[Millennial_Messiah]

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201610230atl.htm

He had 3 receptions for 58 yards in that game (24 of those yards came in the 1st half, so only 34 yards in this amazing 2nd half he allegedly had). Tyrell Williams had 7 receptions for 140 yards. I guess you can say he and Tyrell Williams "tag teamed" to make a 2nd half comeback, but I'd hardly call a 3 reception 58 yard game some amazingly clutch performance and evidence that he's a #1 receiver.

As usual, you're making shit up.
It's just from personal memory. I believe the Falcons were up like 31-7 or 31-10 and lost in OT. Pretty much a harbinger or foreshadowing type of game for what would end up happening to them at the bitter end of the season.

[spurraider21]

same idiot who tried to argue benson mayowa was the second coming of khalil mack now thinks dontrelle inman is going to be a bona fide #1 receiver

because of height/weight

[Will Hunting]

It's just from personal memory. I believe the Falcons were up like 31-7 or 31-10 and lost in OT. Pretty much a harbinger or foreshadowing type of game for what would end up happening to them at the bitter end of the season.
They were up by 17 at the very most.

Once again you completely change the subject (in this case, from Inman to the Falcons) once someone calls you out on your bullshit.

[Will Hunting]

same idiot who tried to argue benson mayowa was the second coming of khalil mack now thinks dontrelle inman is going to be a bona fide #1 receiver

because of height/weight
And because of all the potential he flashed in a 3 reception, 58 yard performance.

[Millennial_Messiah]

And because of all the potential he flashed in a 3 reception, 58 yard performance.

Look, he's my pet cat and he's the best outside receiver on the team. The rookie could be better eventually if he doesn't move to TE, but as of now, it's Inman.

[Will Hunting]

Look, he's my pet cat and he's the best outside receiver on the team. The rookie could be better eventually if he doesn't move to TE, but as of now, it's Inman.
Great argument.

”Hes my pet cat and is really good because I say so!!”

[Millennial_Messiah]

Great argument.

”Hes my pet cat and is really good because I say so!!”
He's been my pet cat since 2016, though. Lobbied for the Cowboys to trade Terrance Williams and get him at one point. Has nothing to do with the Patriots.


Off topic slightly, I think the Pats defense is going to surprise some people this year. DE might be weak still, but DT is loaded, they have 3 quality big LBs plus another big young guy named Bentley who was good before he got hurt last year, and still a top 5 secondary IMO.

[Sir Johnny]

Who will win their first 8? Pats

My Niners....9-7 and more 8-8 than 10-6.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Who will win their first 8? Pats

My Niners....9-7 and more 8-8 than 10-6.

Not sure if the Pats win another 1, much less 2... when BB/B retire that team is going to be bad for a long time, you get that feeling.

[SpursforSix]

It's just from personal memory.

I think we've identified the problem with all your sports takes.

[Millennial_Messiah]

same idiot who tried to argue benson mayowa was the second coming of khalil mack now thinks dontrelle inman is going to be a bona fide #1 receiver

because of height/weight
Mayowa was never the second coming of Mack (a 4th overall talent vs a UDFA) but played well early in the 2013 season with Seattle as a rookie filling in for suspended guys, and then again in 2016 with the Cowboys where he had 6 sacks in a mostly backup/situational role. Unfortunately he flamed out in 2017 and is now a journeyman.

[spurraider21]

1154045855755833344

[spurraider21]

Daniels visiting with Cleveland. Makes sense for them. Colts should also be taking a look imo.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Daniels visiting with Cleveland. Makes sense for them. Colts should also be taking a look imo.

Mike Daniels AND Sheldon Richardson... with Vernon and Myles Garrett... wtf dayum, and some people have the talent-less squeelers still winning that division... they forget what happened the last time that dilapidated ass QB played without elite skill players lmao

[spurraider21]

i'd be thrilled if we added more of an emphasis on the deep ball this year... checkdown carr aint gonna cut it

1155625120242601984

[Pelicans78]

Saints extend Michael Thomas to 5 years 100 million, 20 mil signing bonus and 61 mil guaranteed.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Saints extend Michael Thomas to 5 years 100 million, 20 mil signing bonus and 61 mil guaranteed.

Crap, crap, craaaaaaaaaap... and Cooper is still a FA after this year :bang

[Darth_Pelican]

Julio is salivating.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Julio is salivating.

but he's 30... $21m/year is reasonable, but only for 3 years and all the guarantees frontloaded.


Tyreek Hill is the fastest player in sports and very young, he's the one that should truly break the bank. Especially when they have to pay the QB 40 million a year long term next year. Saints have an advantage because the QB position should be very cheap after this year.

[spurraider21]

Roster cuts will be happening today and tomorrow...

raiders surprise so far is LB Brandon Marshall

[SpursforSix]

but he's 30... $21m/year is reasonable, but only for 3 years and all the guarantees frontloaded.


Tyreek Hill is the fastest player in sports and very young, he's the one that should truly break the bank. Especially when they have to pay the QB 40 million a year long term next year. Saints have an advantage because the QB position should be very cheap after this year.

Lmao...the "fastest player in sports"

[DeadlyDynasty]

I hope Marcus Murphy, Duke Williams, Christian Wade, and Tommy Sweeney make it, but some of them won't

[Millennial_Messiah]

Lmao...the "fastest player in sports"

Team sports, anyway. I don't count shitty individual sports, those are a bore.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Bills release Shady...good business move. Please keep Murphy and Wade!

EDIT: Murphy was released, so was Duke Williams:spin

[DeadlyDynasty]

DiMarco still has a job, smh...FBs are completely obsolete, what a waste of a roster spot

[benefactor]

Bills release Shady...good business move. Please keep Murphy and Wade!

EDIT: Murphy was released, so was Duke Williams:spin
Could be worse...you could've traded Jadevon Clowney for two bags of chips and a half eaten burger

[spurraider21]

could be worse, your coach might waste a roster spot on Nathan Peterman as the 3rd string QB

3rd qb feels like a waste of a roster spot, unless one of them is a rookie project who just isn't NFL ready yet. they should just keep glennon and be done with it.

[spurraider21]

jachai polite cut by jets. he was a 3rd round pick just a few months ago. his draft stock kept falling because of character concerns, but no chance he goes unclaimed

[Millennial_Messiah]

could be worse, your coach might waste a roster spot on Nathan Peterman as the 3rd string QB

3rd qb feels like a waste of a roster spot, unless one of them is a rookie project who just isn't NFL ready yet. they should just keep glennon and be done with it.

you are correct. Just keep Glennon or bring back McGloin or something. But Peterman is trash.

[Holden_Caulfield]

spurraider21 Keelan Doss how good is this guy? what kind of WR is he. he decided to sign with our PS rather than yours

[spurraider21]

spurraider21 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=31905) Keelan Doss how good is this guy? what kind of WR is he. he decided to sign with our PS rather than yours
Fans and beat writers all thought he’d make the 53. Was a preseason stud