Official 2019 Offseason Thread

[spurraider21]

NFL offseason schedule 2019FEBRUARY


Feb. 4: Waiver system begins for 2019.
Feb. 12: Beginning at 12:00 noon, New York time, NFL clubs may begin to sign players whose 2019 CFL contracts have expired. Players under contract to a CFL club for the 2019 season or who have an option for the 2019 season are not eligible to be signed.
Feb. 19: First day for clubs to designate Franchise or Transition Players.
Feb. 26-March 4: NFL Scouting Combine, Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, Indiana.

MARCH


March 5: Prior to 4:00 p.m., New York time, deadline for clubs to designate Franchise or Transition Players.
March 11-13: Clubs are permitted to contact, and enter into contract negotiations with, the certified agents of players who will become Unrestricted Free Agents upon the expiration of their 2018 player contracts at 4:00 p.m., New York time, on March 13.
March 13: Prior to 4:00 p.m., New York time, clubs must exercise options for 2019 on all players who have option clauses in their 2018 contracts.
March 13: Prior to 4:00 p.m., New York time, clubs must submit qualifying offers to their Restricted Free Agents with expiring contracts to retain a Right of First Refusal/Compensation.
March 13: Prior to 4:00 p.m., New York time, clubs must submit a minimum salary tender to retain exclusive negotiating rights to their players with expiring 2018 contracts who have fewer than three accrued seasons of free agency credit.
March 13: Top 51 Rule begins. All clubs must be under the 2019 Salary Cap prior to 4:00 p.m., New York time.
March 13: All 2018 player contracts will expire at 4:00 p.m., New York time.
March 13: The 2019 league year and free agency period begin at 4:00 p.m., New York time. The first day of the 2019 league year will end at 11:59:59 p.m., New York time, on March 13. Clubs will receive a personnel notice that will include all transactions submitted to the league office during the period between 4:00 p.m., New York time, and 11:59:59 p.m., New York time, on March 13.
March 13: Trading period for 2019 begins at 4:00 p.m., New York time, after expiration of all 2018 contracts.
March 24-27: Annual League Meeting, Phoenix, Arizona.

APRIL


April 1: Clubs that hired a new head coach after the end of the 2018 regular season may begin offseason workout programs.
April 15: Clubs with returning head coaches may begin offseason workout programs.
April 19: Deadline for Restricted Free Agents to sign offer sheets.
April 25-27: 2019 NFL Draft, Nashville, Tennessee.

MAY


May 3-6: Clubs may elect to hold their one three-day post-Draft rookie minicamp from Friday through Sunday or Saturday through Monday.
May 7: Deadline for prior club to send “May 7 Tender” to its unsigned Unrestricted Free Agents. If the player has not signed a player contract with a club by July 22 or the first scheduled day of the first NFL training camp, whichever is later, he may negotiate or sign a player contract from that date until the Tuesday following the 10th weekend of the regular season, at 4:00 p.m., New York time, only with his prior club.
May 10-13: Clubs may elect to hold their one three-day post-Draft rookie minicamp from Friday through Sunday or Saturday through Monday.
May 13: Rookie Football Development Programs begin.
May 16-19: NFLPA Rookie Premiere. Invited rookies (typically, first and/or second-round selections) must be permitted by their respective clubs to attend. Such players are unavailable for offseason workouts, OTA days, and minicamps during this period.
May 20-22: Spring League Meeting, Key Biscayne, Florida.

JUNE


June 2: For any player removed from the club’s roster or whose contract is assigned via waivers or trade on or after June 2, any unamortized signing bonus amounts for future years will be included fully in team salary at the start of the 2020 league year.
June 3: Deadline for prior club to send “June 1 Tender” to its unsigned Restricted Free Agents who received a qualifying offer for a right of first refusal only in order for such player to be subject to the CBA’s “June 15 Tender” provision.
June 15: Deadline for club to withdraw qualifying offer to Restricted Free Agents and still retain exclusive negotiating rights by substituting “June 15 Tender” of one-year contract at 110 percent of the player’s prior-year Paragraph 5 Salary (with all other terms of his prior-year contract carried forward unchanged).
Late June: Rookie Transition Program to be held at individual clubs. Attendance is mandatory for all 2019 rookies.

JULY


July 15: At 4:00 p.m., New York time, deadline for any club that designated a Franchise Player to sign such player to a multiyear contract or extension. After this date, the player may sign only a one- year contract with his prior club for the 2019 season, and such contract cannot be extended until after the club’s last regular season game.
Mid-July: Clubs are permitted to open preseason training camp for rookies and first-year players beginning seven days prior to the club’s earliest permissible mandatory reporting date for veteran players. Veteran players (defined as a player with at least one pension-credited season) other than quarterbacks or “injured players” (as defined in CBA Article 21, Section 6) may report to a club’s preseason training camp no earlier than 15 days prior to the club’s first scheduled preseason game or July 15, whichever is later. Veteran quarterbacks and injured players may be required to report to the club’s preseason training camp no earlier than five days immediately prior to the mandatory reporting date for all other veteran players, provided the club has already opened (or simultaneously opens) its official preseason training camp for all rookies and first-year players. A three-day acclimation period will apply to players who are on a club’s roster up to and including the mandatory veteran reporting date. Players who rejoin the roster after that date may practice (including wearing pads) and play immediately after passing a physical.
July 22*: Signing period ends for Unrestricted Free Agents to whom a “May 7 Tender” was made by prior club. After this date and until 4:00 p.m., New York time, on the Tuesday following the 10th weekend of the regular season, prior club has exclusive negotiating rights. (*or the first scheduled day of the first NFL training camp, whichever is later). Signing period ends for Transition Players with outstanding tenders. After this date and until 4:00 p.m., New York time, on the Tuesday following the 10th weekend of the regular season, prior club has exclusive negotiating rights.

AUGUST


Aug. 1: Hall of Fame Game, Canton, Ohio.
Aug. 1-4: Hall of Fame Weekend, Canton, Ohio.
Aug. 6: Deadline for players under contract to report to their clubs to earn an accrued season for free agency. If a drafted rookie has not signed with his club by this date, he cannot be traded to any other club in 2019, and may sign a player contract only with the drafting club until the day of the Draft in the 2020 league year.
Aug. 31: Prior to 4:00 p.m., New York time, clubs must reduce rosters to a maximum of 53 players on the Active/Inactive List. Simultaneously with the cut-down to 53, clubs that have players in the categories of Active/Physically Unable to Perform or Active/Non-Football Injury or Illness must select one of the following options: place player on Reserve/Physically Unable to Perform or Reserve/Non- Football Injury or Illness, whichever is applicable; request waivers; terminate contract; trade contract; or continue to count the player on the Active List.

SEPTEMBER


Sept. 1: Claiming period for players placed on waivers at the final roster reduction will expire at 12:00 noon, New York time.
Sept. 1: Upon receipt of the Personnel Notice at approximately 1:00 p.m., New York time, clubs may establish a practice squad of 10 players (clubs participating in the International Player Development Program may sign one additional international player to a Practice Player Contract.) No club, including the player’s prior club, will be permitted to sign a player to a practice player contract until all clubs have received simultaneous notification via the above Personnel Notice that such player’s prior NFL player contract has been terminated via the waiver system.
Sept. 5: At 12:00 a.m., New York time, the Top 51 Rule expires for all NFL clubs.
Sept. 5: 8-9 Regular Season Week 1.

[spurraider21]

actual important dates:

Scouting Combine - February 26
Franchise tags - March 5
"Legal Tampering" - March 11
Free Agency - March 13
Draft - April 25
Training Camp - Mid-July
Hall of Fame game - August 1
Regular Season - September 5

[Will Hunting]

Going to be a great year for free agents imo. Not a great free agent class and a lot of teams with more cap room than they know what to do with. There also aren't very teams up against cap issues so I don't think we see very many good players getting cut.

[spurraider21]

i just hope dat n*gga mike mayock still puts out a mock draft as a power move

[Will Hunting]

Patriots hire Greg Schiano as DC.

I've never been a fan of the guy as a head coach but it's a good sign Belichick hired a semi-big name who's going to actually want to add value instead of be another Matt Patricia.

[spurraider21]

Patriots hire Greg Schiano as DC.

I've never been a fan of the guy as a head coach but it's a good sign Belichick hired a semi-big name who's going to actually want to add value instead of be another Matt Patricia.
but patricia is a rocket scientist!

[Killakobe81]

Prescott expects the Cowboys to “pay what’s deserved” and makes it clear he expects to be paid more than Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, who has a team-friendly deal that paid him $15 million in 2018.

“Nobody’s wife makes as much money as his wife does either,” Prescott told Trysta Krick of USA Today. “When Tom Brady isn’t the breadwinner in the home, then that’s a great problem to have.

“So, in that case, he can do that. He can do his contract however you want to do it.”

Brady’s wife, model Gisele Bundchen, earned $10 million in 2018 and $17.5 million in 2017, per reports.

[Killakobe81]

Whodafuc Dak think he is?!

[Will Hunting]

That’s a stupid comment for him to make. The discount Brady gives New England is basically the difference between a top tier QB and a 2nd tier QB. His cap hit next season is also $27mm and there’s no fucking way Dak is worth that much of a cap hit.

[Holden_Caulfield]

as much as i dont want big dick nick on the jags, i hope they dont reach for a QB again like they did with bortles in 2014, i finally warmed up to him after the AFCCG last year and he goes on and falls off a cliff :lol

[Robz4000]

Flacco traded to Denver.

[Will Hunting]

Flacco traded to Denver.
He’s only an above average QB at his best but still an upgrade over the trash Denver has had at QB.

:lmao Baltimore going all in on the dogshit Lamar Jackson offense. That got a exposed the minute a team played against it more than once.

[SpursforSix]

He’s only an above average QB at his best but still an upgrade over the trash Denver has had at QB.

:lmao Baltimore going all in on the dogshit Lamar Jackson offense. That got a exposed the minute a team played against it more than once.

Besides that offense sucking, I don't think he's going to last if they're going to have him run 15-20 times per game.

[Will Hunting]

Besides that offense sucking, I don't think he's going to last if they're going to have him run 15-20 times per game.
Truth, he’s got a frail build and wouldn’t hold up against a big hit. Russell Wilson has the stockier frame that a running QB needs for durability.

[SpursforSix]

Truth, he’s got a frail build and wouldn’t hold up against a big hit. Russell Wilson has the stockier frame that a running QB needs for durability.

Exactly. And most "running" QB are getting their yards in scramble situations when a play breaks down. I don't remember the exact stat but it was something like 70% of Jackson's runs were designed plays.
I can't see this lasting.

And as you said, it doesn't matter anyway. Unless he can somehow develop as a passer, that offense is going to be terrible.

[SuperCam]

The Denver Fluccos :lmao

[spurraider21]

He’s only an above average QB at his best but still an upgrade over the trash Denver has had at QB.

:lmao Baltimore going all in on the dogshit Lamar Jackson offense. That got a exposed the minute a team played against it more than once.
i dont think that's them "going all in". flacco is getting paid 20+ mil to be the backup. makes sense to trade him regardless, tho imo they should draft a QB as well until they are sure in what they have with lamar...

[Darth_Pelican]

https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51726547_2365918296788178_6327025012179992576_n.jp g?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=a3c27b8ad65e3ec716c7c5add7e59d6e&oe=5CEE66DC

[Millennial_Messiah]

http://i63.tinypic.com/2lw2dja.jpg
This is the best one tbh :lol

[Robz4000]

So Gurley's been diagnosed with arthritis in his hurt knee.

[SpursforSix]

So Gurley's been diagnosed with arthritis in his hurt knee.

Wow. Bad news. They didn’t say what specific kind. I guess osteoarthritis is the most likely. Probably facing amputation in the next 2 years.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Nick Foles to the Jaguars looks like a done deal, unless he pulls a DeAndre Jordan on them.

Yes.

https://deadspin.com/report-nick-foles-expected-to-bring-his-talents-and-en-1833022264

[phxspurfan]

Nick gonna bring that BDE to Sacksonville, just after their super bowl window closed

[benefactor]

Clowney tagged:tu

[Millennial_Messiah]

Lawrence tagged. Hopefully he gets traded for a mid-high 1st

[Will Hunting]

Patriots cut shitty Dwayne Allen. Next up need to extent Brady to lower his cap hit, cut Clayborn and restructure McCourty/Gronk (assuming Gronk doesn’t retire). That probably creates another $10mm in cap space and makes it more likely that they can retain Flowers. Trent Brown is as good as gone and I’m curious why they didn’t franchise Gostkowski. He might be gone too.

[spurraider21]

Case Keenum traded to the Redskins

crofl "upgrading" from colt mccoy by acquiring marginally better version of colt mccoy

still cant believe denver actually traded for flacco :lmao

[spurraider21]

also... looks like the AB trade is bound to happen by tomorrow. raiders keep popping up as an interested party, and both the titans and redskins have "withdrawn" from the sweepstakes so its looking more likely. reports have said nobody has offered a first for him.

[Avant]

Poor AB he messed up with Big Ben and now will have Derek Carr........the dude fucked up.

BUT......the Raiders will be in more come from behind must throw games so.....hmmmm?

[spurraider21]

Raiders just paid Trent Brown a shitload of money. a year after spending their first round pick on that turd Kolton Miller, who predictably struggled

[Will Hunting]

No surprise at all that the Patriots were going to let Brown go when they have Isaiah Wynn waiting in the wings as his replacement. I can't believe that a team made him the highest paid o-lineman in the NFL though, at least when the Giants did it with Solder a year ago Solder was (maybe wrongfully) considered a near elite LT, Brown was probably an above average starter last year who had an assistant coach who's maybe the best in NFL history at coaching up offensive linemen.

If this is any indication of how free agency goes this year then not optimistic New England will be able to keep Flowers.

[spurraider21]

No surprise at all that the Patriots were going to let Brown go when they have Isaiah Wynn waiting in the wings as his replacement. I can't believe that a team made him the highest paid o-lineman in the NFL though, at least when the Giants did it with Solder a year ago Solder was (maybe wrongfully) considered a near elite LT, Brown was probably an above average starter last year who had an assistant coach who's maybe the best in NFL history at coaching up offensive linemen.

If this is any indication of how free agency goes this year then not optimistic New England will be able to keep Flowers.
seeing solder and brown get monster contracts in consecutive years, while the pats have their first round pick replacement waiting in the wings is just another sign that the pats are doing it right and will continue to succeed. meanwhile the raiders had their first round pick tackle play so poorly that they felt the need to overpay a free agent.

gruden/cable really did a number on our OL.

1) miller was always a reach where he was taken. they really wanted mcglinchey and panicked when he didnt make it to them in the draft. he was better fit to play RT in the NFL, so at least they have a chance to right that wrong
2) they insisted on playing miller at LT immediately when they still had a capable donald penn. they instead chose to shift penn to right (where he has NEVER played) to accommodate the unproven rookie. penn was awful at RT then got injured. miller flopped at LT
3) now instead of just admitting the mistake and moving Penn back to LT, they're likely going to release Penn to clear up some of the space they needed to sign Brown. only good explanation is that Penn is old/declining and coming off injury while brown is young and coming off a career year

[Millennial_Messiah]

No surprise at all that the Patriots were going to let Brown go when they have Isaiah Wynn waiting in the wings as his replacement. I can't believe that a team made him the highest paid o-lineman in the NFL though, at least when the Giants did it with Solder a year ago Solder was (maybe wrongfully) considered a near elite LT, Brown was probably an above average starter last year who had an assistant coach who's maybe the best in NFL history at coaching up offensive linemen.

If this is any indication of how free agency goes this year then not optimistic New England will be able to keep Flowers.
no issue... you get 2 more third round comp picks in 2020 after having 2 third round comp picks this year! Talk about a luxury of riches

[Avant]

What can be done about a player refusing to go where he was traded? Brown wasn't going to play in Buffalo, I did think he'd rebel over that. You don't want a guy who makes it real clear he doesn't want to be there. I guess not a lot actually.

[Holden_Caulfield]

landon collins 6yr 84 million with 45mil gtd for someone who cant cover in a passing league. lmao redskins

[spurraider21]

Bengals paying CJ Uzomah 3 years 18 mil? :lmao what does he even do

[spurraider21]

this is somewhat of a relief. no signing bonus

1105156379533328384

year 3 is for 14 mil, and year 4 would be for 15.25 mil, both effectively as team options

[Millennial_Messiah]

Will Hunting

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001021954/article/lions-expected-to-sign-trey-flowers-to-fiveyear-deal


Bam. Loins going hard after ExPats today; also got Amendola. $16 Million/year seems like a relative discount considering the going rate lately.


Patriots 99% certain to receive 2 third-round compensatory picks in 2020.

[spurraider21]

:lmao imo the GOAT tweet

1104502515570171910

[SpursforSix]

Will Hunting (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17032)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001021954/article/lions-expected-to-sign-trey-flowers-to-fiveyear-deal


Bam. Loins going hard after ExPats today; also got Amendola. $16 Million/year seems like a relative discount considering the going rate lately.


Patriots 99% certain to receive 2 third-round compensatory picks in 2020.

where are you getting 16,000,000?
and how the hell is that a "discount"?

ah...nm...thought you were talking about Amendola

[Will Hunting]

this is somewhat of a relief. no signing bonus

1105156379533328384

year 3 is for 14 mil, and year 4 would be for 15.25 mil, both effectively as team options
His agent fucked that one up IMO, not a chance Oakland is going to pay him those salaries in years 3 or 4.

[Will Hunting]

Will Hunting (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17032)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001021954/article/lions-expected-to-sign-trey-flowers-to-fiveyear-deal


Bam. Loins going hard after ExPats today; also got Amendola. $16 Million/year seems like a relative discount considering the going rate lately.


Patriots 99% certain to receive 2 third-round compensatory picks in 2020.
Matt Patricia is more or less following the playbook of every way a former Belichick assistant can fuck up in his first head coaching job. Build less through the draft and more through overpaying ex-Pats in free agency, try to run the same system as Belichick runs in New England regardless of whether or not it fits the personnel, etc.

Paying Flowers $16mm a year is pure insanity, and I don't see why Amendola is a good fit for Detroit at all. Seems like Patricia is just trying to win by signing ex-Patriots.

Meanwhile, it's encouraging for Brian Flores that the Dolphins cut Amendola (who was a horrible fit for them). Shows he won't fawn over ex-Patriots the way other former Belichick assistant coaches do.

[spurraider21]

His agent fucked that one up IMO, not a chance Oakland is going to pay him those salaries in years 3 or 4.
antonio brown's deal also looks like he's basically locked in for 2 years and can be cut for nothing in the 3rd year. due to our shit drafting, we dont really have a lot of guys on rookie scale deals who are going to be "due" big raises. the only guys i can think of who are remotely in that position would be karl joseph and gareon conley, but they're a few years out. joseph has been pretty average and has jumped in and out of the starting lineup, but the raiders are picking up his 5th year option so he's locked through 2020. conley is in the same boat and will be locked in through 2021, provided they also pick up his option

[Will Hunting]

:lmao the Lions paying a nickel corner $9 million a year

[Millennial_Messiah]

Matt Patricia is more or less following the playbook of every way a former Belichick assistant can fuck up in his first head coaching job. Build less through the draft and more through overpaying ex-Pats in free agency, try to run the same system as Belichick runs in New England regardless of whether or not it fits the personnel, etc.

Paying Flowers $16mm a year is pure insanity, and I don't see why Amendola is a good fit for Detroit at all. Seems like Patricia is just trying to win by signing ex-Patriots.

Meanwhile, it's encouraging for Brian Flores that the Dolphins cut Amendola (who was a horrible fit for them). Shows he won't fawn over ex-Patriots the way other former Belichick assistant coaches do.

I agree, but... :lmao Greg Schiano , when they literally could have had any DC


I remember his time with Tampa... he was the laughing stock of the league:

https://www.sbnation.com/2013/10/23/4862062/greg-schiano-breaking-madden

[Holden_Caulfield]

Lol Foles for 4 years at 22 a year fml. Hopefully it's structured like the Trent brown contract with only the first 2 guaranteed

[spurraider21]

Lol Foles for 4 years at 22 a year fml. Hopefully it's structured like the Trent brown contract with only the first 2 guaranteed
wowza. good on nick foles for finally getting that life-setting contract

in today's market, 22 mil for a starting qb is actually not that bad. right now he's the 15th highest paid qb, for reference. a few years ago derek carr was the highest paid qb now he's 14th

[Millennial_Messiah]

I’m curious why they didn’t franchise Gostkowski. He might be gone too.

There's really cheap kickers available like Aguayo and Walsh sitting on the open market. No need to pay that much for a kicker.

[Holden_Caulfield]

wowza

50 mil guaranteed fml :lol at least we won't have to draft a qb early for the next 2 years I hope

[spurraider21]

DeSean Jackson back in Philly. love that fit. they need the home run guy across alshon

their golden tate trade though...

[spurraider21]

Raiders main beat writer not convinced that Trent Brown will be playing left tackle... thats nuts

[spurraider21]

:lmao

1105210948867031041

[Will Hunting]

There's really cheap kickers available like Aguayo and Walsh sitting on the open market. No need to pay that much for a kicker.
Yeah I disagree that having an elite kicker isn't worth the extra few million given vs. having a cheap kicker who's available for the league minimum. Gostkowski in particular is worth the extra money because he's one of the most powerful kickoff legs in the NFL who consistently forces touchbacks, but given how many games are decided by made vs. missed field goals elite kickers are easily worth the value.

[Millennial_Messiah]

:lmao

1105210948867031041

that's kind of asshole-ish considering the guy just provided really good pass protection to your 41 year old crown jewel en route to a championship ring.

[spurraider21]

that's kind of asshole-ish considering the guy just provided really good pass protection to your 41 year old crown jewel en route to a championship ring.
he's also incredibly fat and just got a lot of money

[Millennial_Messiah]

DeSean Jackson back in Philly. love that fit. they need the home run guy across alshon

their golden tate trade though...

Golden Tate was a bad trade. They'll probably get a 4th round comp pick back for him. They're likely not to sign any new FAs which will hurt that formula. They'll lose Darby for a 3rd round comp pick. They'll decide between Jordan Hicks and CJ Mosley which will roughly cancel each other out regardless of which one they choose.

[Millennial_Messiah]

he's also incredibly fat and just got a lot of money
He is incredibly obese but he is an enormous, powerful man. It's hard for pass rushers to get around that big frame and they definitely cannot get through him on the bull rush.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Yeah I disagree that having an elite kicker isn't worth the extra few million given vs. having a cheap kicker who's available for the league minimum. Gostkowski in particular is worth the extra money because he's one of the most powerful kickoff legs in the NFL who consistently forces touchbacks, but given how many games are decided by made vs. missed field goals elite kickers are easily worth the value.
I would tend to agree, but with a bad kicker the Pats would have still won this past SB, 7-3, because Jared Goof was a joke :lol

[Ghazi]

why didnt the Patriots resign Flowers

[Millennial_Messiah]

At that price tag he can fuck right off tbh. It’s not like Belichick went cheap here, Patricia just went full retard.

agreed

+

Flowers and Bennett play the same position

[Millennial_Messiah]

Terrell Suggs to Cardinals. Why? He won't find anything resembling a ring there. But he went to school at ASU.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Adam Humphries to the Titans.

Biggest news today is the Landon Collins Redskins $14 million/year long term contract... mostly guaranteed, holy shit! For a box safety who is mediocre at zone coverage.

[Will Hunting]

At that price tag he can fuck right off tbh. It’s not like Belichick went cheap here, Patricia just went full retard.
I don't fault Flowers for taking that money though, you only have one chance to get paid before people realize you're the product of a system, and he took full advantage :lol

[Isitjustme?]

seeing solder and brown get monster contracts in consecutive years, while the pats have their first round pick replacement waiting in the wings is just another sign that the pats are doing it right and will continue to succeed.

That first round left tackle pick of the Pats is like 6'2 and coming off achilles plus also might have just sucked in the first place anyway so lets tap the brakes on blowing the Pats just yet

[Isitjustme?]

Pats should sign another Brown type veteran with potential in case that tackle sucks

[Will Hunting]

That first round left tackle pick of the Pats is like 6'2 and coming off achilles plus also might have just sucked in the first place anyway so lets tap the brakes on blowing the Pats just yet
He has 33'3/8" long arms (which matter more for the position than height), which are shorter than ideal for a tackle but not short enough to raise any red flags.

Would be a bigger concern except the other 4 starters are all coming back and have been playing as a unit for 3 full seasons now.

[spurraider21]

That first round left tackle pick of the Pats is like 6'2 and coming off achilles plus also might have just sucked in the first place anyway so lets tap the brakes on blowing the Pats just yet
im not saying he's going to be a star... but they're going about it the right way. it's why they're always competitive. they rarely overpay and have backup plans in place. teams that are not only lacking a plan A but dont have backups in the wing are the ones who need to spend 16 million on the Trent Browns of the world

[Raven]

seems like once again the league is doing its best to make the pats look smarter

[Will Hunting]

seems like once again the league is doing its best to make the pats look smarter
It’s not a very good free agency class and there’s a fuck load of cap room, this was bound to happen.

[Isitjustme?]

im not saying he's going to be a star... but they're going about it the right way. it's why they're always competitive. they rarely overpay and have backup plans in place. teams that are not only lacking a plan A but dont have backups in the wing are the ones who need to spend 16 million on the Trent Browns of the world

I would not have given him the contract either but he could play like he did last year and it would be a decent deal. meanwhile the achilles guy could be a scrub and this would be a disaster. Maybe they can get some veteran for depth who could surprise them like Brown did. Maybe that Penn guy you were talking about could be signed by the Pats and have a resurgence.

[Avant]

Everytime I see Carlos Hyde play he impresses me, as he moves from team to team.......hmmmm?

[Avant]

Nick Foles 4 seasons 88 mill, Jags.

Wentz will go down in week 6-9 and the Eagles will be sorry they let Foles go.

[Will Hunting]

I would not have given him the contract either but he could play like he did last year and it would be a decent deal. meanwhile the achilles guy could be a scrub and this would be a disaster. Maybe they can get some veteran for depth who could surprise them like Brown did. Maybe that Penn guy you were talking about could be signed by the Pats and have a resurgence.
It wouldn’t be an awful deal if he duplicated last year but he’d still be overpaid. He was a good run blocker and an average pass blocker (especially against quicker pass rushers) and elite left tackles are generally getting paid for their pass blocking. IOW he was good but didn’t play well enough to warrant being the highest paid lineman in the NFL.

[Millennial_Messiah]

It wouldn’t be an awful deal if he duplicated last year but he’d still be overpaid. He was a good run blocker and an average pass blocker (especially against quicker pass rushers) and elite left tackles are generally getting paid for their pass blocking. IOW he was good but didn’t play well enough to warrant being the highest paid lineman in the NFL.
Agreed. With that huge frame though he was elite in run blocking, especially in power man blocking with Sony Michel.

The Pats o'line is going to be cooked soon enough when Thuney and Andrews (the heart and soul of that line) are up and due 10m+ each, Pats won't pay that much for those positions but someone will and the Pats will sorely regret losing them.

[Will Hunting]

Agreed. With that huge frame though he was elite in run blocking, especially in power man blocking with Sony Michel.

The Pats o'line is going to be cooked soon enough when Thuney and Andrews (the heart and soul of that line) are up and due 10m+ each, Pats won't pay that much for those positions but someone will and the Pats will sorely regret losing them.
Mason is better than Thuney (Mason is the best guard no one talks about because of one missed block that came at the worst possible time, but he’s top 5 according to PFF), however agreed that Andrews is the most important player on the line. Mason is already signed long term and my guess is Andrews also signs long term while Thuney gets a huge deal somewhere else. If they lost Andrews they’d be in trouble with or without Thuney, which is why I think they keep him. Belichick is obviously willing to let players leave in free agency but he’s got a great sense for knowing when to stop the bleeding (ie, after the 2009 season when it looked like the Pats were ready to fall off a cliff, he ponied up the money Wilfork’s fat wife was asking for because it wasn’t a situation where they could afford to lose him).

Worst case scenario with Wynn is that if he doesn’t work at left tackle they move him inside when Thuney hits free agency a year from now, he might not have the length/size needed for a tackle but he could definitely play inside.

Belichick is also extremely overrated when it comes to drafting most positions (particularly receivers, pass rushers, corners or anyone who Urban Meyer recommends), but one thing he’s been able to do is find good interior o-line talent in the middle rounds.

[spurraider21]

Mason is better than Thuney (Mason is the best guard no one talks about because of one missed block that came at the worst possible time, but he’s top 5 according to PFF), however agreed that Andrews is the most important player on the line. Mason is already signed long term and my guess is Andrews also signs long term while Thuney gets a huge deal somewhere else. If they lost Andrews they’d be in trouble with or without Thuney, which is why I think they keep him. Belichick is obviously willing to let players leave in free agency but he’s got a great sense for knowing when to stop the bleeding (ie, after the 2009 season when it looked like the Pats were ready to fall off a cliff, he ponied up the money Wilfork’s fat wife was asking for because it wasn’t a situation where they could afford to lose him).

Worst case scenario with Wynn is that if he doesn’t work at left tackle they move him inside when Thuney hits free agency a year from now, he might not have the length/size needed for a tackle but he could definitely play inside.

Belichick is also extremely overrated when it comes to drafting most positions (particularly receivers, pass rushers, corners or anyone who Urban Meyer recommends), but one thing he’s been able to do is find good interior o-line talent in the middle rounds.
he found louis murphy 2.0 tbh

[Darth_Pelican]

Saints just signed Latavius Murray which means Mark Ingram won't be a Saint next year.

[Will Hunting]

he found louis murphy 2.0 tbh
Him and Chad Jackson (way worse) were the two whiffs that came to mind at WR.

Still nothing to compared to how many whiffs he's had at corner or with pass rushers though.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Bills got two mediocre slot receivers in John Brown and Cole Beasley for about $8 million/year apiece.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Looks like Anthony Barr just pulled a DeAndre Jordan in Dallas (2015) deal by going back to the Vikings after committing to the Jets.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Him and Chad Jackson (way worse) were the two whiffs that came to mind at WR.

Still nothing to compared to how many whiffs he's had at corner or with pass rushers though.

The one time he did overpay for a corner a few years ago... he just saved the SB from likely going to OT or worse with the game saving interception.

[SpursforSix]

Bills got two mediocre slot receivers in John Brown and Cole Beasley for about $8 million/year apiece.

You're retarded. Do you do this on purpose? Or do you really just not watch football. Brown isn't a slot receiver.

[Millennial_Messiah]

You're retarded. Do you do this on purpose? Or do you really just not watch football. Brown isn't a slot receiver.

He's a Z receiver in Baltimore but he played a lot of slot in Arizona, swapped with Fitzgerald.


The main issue that even the best pure Z receivers in the NFL (Tyreek Hill, Desean Jackson, etc) face is, how are they going to thrive in the face of press coverage? Because they're usually not at all big enough to win a fist fight with the corner bullying him at the LOS.

[SpursforSix]

He's a Z receiver in Baltimore but he played a lot of slot in Arizona, swapped with Fitzgerald.

In Arizona, he ran 83% of plays not in the slot.

[spurraider21]

Saints just signed Latavius Murray which means Mark Ingram won't be a Saint next year.
i'd love the raiders to take a look at ingram

[spurraider21]

In Arizona, he ran 83% of plays not in the slot.
the guy doesnt watch football. he checks the players espn profile and makes assumptions based on height/weight.

jon brown small? therefore must be slot!

same guy said khalil mack was only productive because some guy named benson mayowa ate up blocks and freed him up

[Millennial_Messiah]

the guy doesnt watch football. he checks the players espn profile and makes assumptions based on height/weight.

jon brown small? therefore must be slot!

same guy said khalil mack was only productive because some guy named benson mayowa ate up blocks and freed him up
spring or summer 2016? lol.

I was just trying to stay positive about the Cowboys' anemic pass rush back then. DeMarcus Lawrence wasn't really a thing yet.

[SpursforSix]

the guy doesnt watch football. he checks the players espn profile and makes assumptions based on height/weight.

jon brown small? therefore must be slot!

same guy said khalil mack was only productive because some guy named benson mayowa ate up blocks and freed him up

I was going to start a thread to aggregate all of his bad takes. His comparison of James White to Robert Horry was pretty amusing.
Also his comment that Brees has "lost it" already.

[Will Hunting]

I was going to start a thread to aggregate all of his bad takes. His comparison of James White to Robert Horry was pretty amusing.
Also his comment that Brees has "lost it" already.
His constant contradictions about how to beat Tom Brady were also hilarious.

[SpursforSix]

spring or summer 2016? lol.

I was just trying to stay positive about the Cowboys' anemic pass rush back then. DeMarcus Lawrence wasn't really a thing yet.

hey...you never answered as to which receivers left the Saints and were not productive?

[Millennial_Messiah]

His constant contradictions about how to beat Tom Brady were also hilarious.

I'll reiterate it:: you beat Brady by playing him the way Belichick beat Jared Goof. Bring the house, tight man coverage, don't give up anything shallow and easy, and make him take chances.

[SpursforSix]

His constant contradictions about how to beat Tom Brady were also hilarious.

It's always entertaining when he brings the Pats into a conversation. Like it's apples to apples.

[Millennial_Messiah]

hey...you never answered as to which receivers left the Saints and were not productive?
Tons of guys from 09-13 era

Marquez Colston
Robert Meachem
Lance Moore
Joseph Morgan
others

Hell... Jimmy Graham

[Will Hunting]

I'll reiterate it:: you beat Brady by playing him the way Belichick beat Jared Goof. Bring the house, tight man coverage, don't give up anything shallow and easy, and make him take chances.
That's not what you say here when you talk about "hard flat zones"


yeah but you don't power run with the scatback, you'll get stuffed, but Michel/Ingram are less receiving threats so it's kind of tick for tack


also against Brady, you should play defense like you're playing Alex Smith minus the scrambling threat. Hard flat zones, disallow all the short stuff, MAKE him try and beat you deep

Now here comes the part where you equivocate and say that by hard flat zones you actually meant man coverage.

[Millennial_Messiah]

That's not what you say here when you talk about "hard flat zones"



Now here comes the part where you equivocate and say that by hard flat zones you actually meant man coverage.

Similar concept though. Take away everything shallow and force the deep ball. If you want to go zone, hard flat zones are the way to go, absolutely no soft zones or cover 2 BS.

[SpursforSix]

Tons of guys from 09-13 era

Marquez Colston
Robert Meachem
Lance Moore
Joseph Morgan
others

Hell... Jimmy Graham

Marquez Colston never played for anyone but the Saints.
Robert Meachem played for the Saints 7/8 years and retired a Saint.
Lance Moore left the Saints when he was 31.
Joseph Morgan didn't play for anyone but the Saints.

[Will Hunting]

Similar concept though. Take away everything shallow and force the deep ball. If you want to go zone, hard flat zones are the way to go, absolutely no soft zones or cover 2 BS.
Like I said, here comes the part where you equivocate.

[Will Hunting]

Marquez Colston never played for anyone but the Saints.
Robert Meachem played for the Saints 7/8 years and retired a Saint.
Lance Moore left the Saints when he was 31.
Joseph Morgan didn't play for anyone but the Saints.

MM's response - Well see I was right, Colston left the Saints and retired. Obviously that means he was less productive!

[SpursforSix]

MM's response - Well see I was right, Colston left the Saints and retired. Obviously that means he was less productive!

I'm speculating but I'm thinking when he first made the comment, he was thinking about Cooks. When he realized that wasn't true, he just listed a bunch of random Saint's receivers.

[SpursforSix]

MM's response - Well see I was right, Colston left the Saints and retired. Obviously that means he was less productive!

But I guess the only positive thing is that once he's been proven wrong, he usually won't argue about it. He'll just ignore it and then move on to post other inaccuracies.

[Avant]

What always gets me is regardless of who gets what it's always the Pats in the drivers seat.

The bottom line is really that....coach/QB....combo. everybody else pretty much bit players.

Who has the best coach/QB combo, yep...Pats.

When my Niners ruled the game....Walsh/Montana

Way back in the days of the old AAFC....Paul Brown/Otto Graham

Who can forget....Lombardi/Starr

Look at all the weak Coach/QB combo's out there right now.

[Millennial_Messiah]

shitty Cardinals land the best free agent ILB out there, yes better than Mosley. But can he stay healthy is the question?

[spurraider21]

OBJ to browns :wow

[JoeTait75]

Hate losing Peppers. That's my guy. Big deals like this always make me queasy.

[Darth_Pelican]

i'd love the raiders to take a look at ingram

Not for the 7 mil/year that he is seeking

[Broly]

What the fuck just happened.

[Silver&Black]

OBJ is overrated

[Silver&Black]

The Giants will receive the Browns' first-round pick in 2019 (No. 17 overall), their second third-round pick this year and safety Jabrill Peppers (http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/3115962/jabrill-peppers) for Beckham, the source said.

[Darth_Pelican]

OBJ & Landry reunited. Now sign Mettenberger

[Chris]

Hate losing Peppers. That's my guy. Big deals like this always make me queasy.

I'm sorry dude. This guy is a diva receiver - think Dez Bryant with lower intelligence. I hope this works out for you though, and am a little relieved to get him out of the division. He's a deep speed threat at the end of the day even with all his "baggage."

[JoeTait75]

I'm sorry dude. This guy is a diva receiver - think Dez Bryant with lower intelligence. I hope this works out for you though, and am a little relieved to get him out of the division. He's a deep speed threat at the end of the day even with all his "baggage."

Most big-time receivers are divas. Even some shit receivers are divas (Braylon Edwards). It goes with the position. My concern is that Baker is not the type of QB who is going to force-feed one guy. He'll spread it around, and there are a lot of mouths to feed in this offense.

I should be happy that the Browns are going for the gusto, though. For years they've been satisfied w/going 4-12 or 5-11 and hoping they'll be better in 2-3 years. Those days are over.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Holy shitballs. This is legit. With the Ravens defense getting torn to shreds in FA (and still trotting out a QB who can't throw), Pissburgh losing their 2 players that drive their entire offense, and the Bungles being mired in mediocrity. Absolutely zero excuse for the Browns to not dominate that crappy division for the foreseeable future.

[Millennial_Messiah]

49ers just WAY overpaid Dee Ford. I don't think he's that great. Playing next to Chris Jones (the "other Aaron Donald") made him look much better than he is.

[spurraider21]

i think he's the second best receiver in the league after AB, and with Brown already in his 30's, thats probably not for long. OBJ is an absurd talent and put up numbers despite horrendous QB play from Eli last year

[spurraider21]

Not for the 7 mil/year that he is seeking
yeah thats kinda steep.

[Spurminator]

Man the Browns were fun to watch last year but this year is going to be something.

[spurraider21]

Baker Mayfield, Kareem Hunt, Nick Chubb, OBJ, Jarvis Landry, David N'Joku... that's a hell of a cast

[Chris]

Most big-time receivers are divas. Even some shit receivers are divas (Braylon Edwards). It goes with the position. My concern is that Baker is not the type of QB who is going to force-feed one guy. He'll spread it around, and there are a lot of mouths to feed in this offense.

I should be happy that the Browns are going for the gusto, though. For years they've been satisfied w/going 4-12 or 5-11 and hoping they'll be better in 2-3 years. Those days are over.

Reminds me of Romo and T.O. tbh they made it work, but Baker is still a baby. Those 4-12 and 5-11 seasons I'm all too familiar with ie:Cowboys in the late 90's/early 2000's until we got Bill Parcells and Romo/Witten.

[Avant]

Dee Ford and Nick Bosa.....hell yes.

[leemajors]

I'm sorry dude. This guy is a diva receiver - think Dez Bryant with lower intelligence. I hope this works out for you though, and am a little relieved to get him out of the division. He's a deep speed threat at the end of the day even with all his "baggage."

OBJ is a bit of a diva, but he is a scapegoat in that situation and a damn good player. I would be pissed if I was Barkley.

[spurraider21]

Cleveland is winning that division. Baltimore/Pitt got worse. Bengals don't matter.

if anybody watched giants games last year, you saw how pathetic Eli was and how OBJ had to go above and beyond to even wind up with a 90 yard game. His talent is off the charts. He's not just "very good." He's a truly elite/historic talent imho.

[Avant]

Young team trying to get back in the mix with the Browns, the last thing this team needs is a guy like OBJ, big mistake bringing him in at this stage of things.

The guy is way too much about OBJ, not good for a team where the Browns are at.

Hell, they are already talking about just that on the NFL Network. I do expect problems.

[leemajors]

Thomas to Ravens, from Schefter:

Former Seahawks’ S Earl Thomas intends to sign a four-year, $55 million deal that includes $32 million fully guaranteed at signing with the Baltimore Ravens, league source tells ESPN. Deal includes $22 million in first nine months.

[leemajors]

and also, lmao at razon as if Baker Mayfield isn't just as full of himself posing shirtless with tigers.

[Darth_Pelican]

Ingram to Ravens too. 3yr 15 mil

[AaronY]

GD the Giants are fucking retarded

[spurraider21]

Ingram to Ravens too. 3yr 15 mil
Solid imho

[Chris]

Glad Jerry stayed away from that cancerous Earl Thomas

[leemajors]

they didn't stay away, he just wanted more money than they were willing to offer. why is he a cancer?

[spurraider21]

they didn't stay away, he just wanted more money than they were willing to offer. why is he a cancer?
WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO DONALD TRUMP SAYING SOME OF THE OFFENSIVE THINGS THAT HE SAID IN LEAKED VIDEO WAS JUST LOCKER ROOM TALK?

I was kind of disappointed that he would say locker room talk. Because I feel like that put us in a negative light. We don’t talk like that in a locker room. Of course we talk about women, but not in that way.
SO IF YOU HAD TO TELL DONALD TRUMP WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT IN THE LOCKER ROOM, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

In our locker room, guys are playing ping pong or talking about what’s going on in their community. If you go on our website, and see when guys are talking to the media, it’s a lot of things. They have more things going on in the world than degrading women like that.

[spurraider21]

Then Flores goes and signs Eric Rowe :lmao not a huge contract, but any size contract given to that dipshit is wasted money.
at least BB knew he had to re-sign McCourty :tu

[Will Hunting]

at least BB knew he had to re-sign McCourty :tu
Do we know how much it's for yet? I'm fine with bringing him back at the right price.

[Will Hunting]

Then Flores goes and signs Eric Rowe :lmao not a huge contract, but any size contract given to that dipshit is wasted money.
:lol Rowe is the Javaris Crittenton of corners, he's got no talent or skill, he's just bigger than most others at the position.

[Avant]

Poor Eli, he is going to really be exposed now as a....seen better days...QB.

Will AB miss those Big Ben passes?

Bell with no AB to back safeties off....good luck.

No Foles to bail out the Eagles when Wentz goes down, not good.

Dee Ford from one side Nick Boza from the other...GO NINERS~

Who has a better RB combo than the Browns with Chubb/Hunt? Ingram gone from NO.

What;s with Tyreek Hill?

It's looking more and more like Kylar Murray just isn't getting it.

I expect a huge improvement in Lamar Jackson next season.

[Millennial_Messiah]

:lol Rowe is the Javaris Crittenton of corners, he's got no talent or skill, he's just bigger than most others at the position.

Is that the guy who got trashed by Alshon Jeffery in the first quarter and a half before Belichick got smart?

[Will Hunting]

Patriots are keeping Josh Gordon. They still need to sign or draft 2 other receivers (would have loved Amendola back) and one of them needs to be a legit outside threat, but great move imo.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Patriots are keeping Josh Gordon. They still need to sign or draft 2 other receivers (would have loved Amendola back) and one of them needs to be a legit outside threat, but great move imo.

Not sure if Gordon will ever play again tbh

[Will Hunting]

Not sure if Gordon will ever play again tbh
Not a chance the Patriots make him a 2nd round tender offer without having good reason to think he will be.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Not a chance the Patriots make him a 2nd round tender offer without having good reason to think he will be.

Cowboys gave David Irving the second round tender last year & you know how that one turned out... the RFA tender is based on potential and is almost always a no brainer.

UFA is a much different story.

[Chris]

they didn't stay away, he just wanted more money than they were willing to offer. why is he a cancer?

Did you see what he did when he got injured? Totally threw everyone under the bus.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Did you see what he did when he got injured? Totally threw everyone under the bus.

Maybe Earl Thomas was an asshole, but there's no denying we desperately need an upgrade over Jeff Heath who should only be playing special teams.


Xavier Woods was ranked the 5th best free safety last year by PFF metrics. We didn't really need an FS, what we need desperately is a stud at SS.

What we really needed was Derwin James from last year's draft. We got LVE which was great, too... but if there was a way we could have gotten both LVE and Derwin James, our defense would have been all set for a long time.

[Darth_Pelican]

https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54514753_2411219345591406_7570800103187808256_n.jp g?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=9396ced01c3c2f2b81161ff89f1321e0&oe=5D09936C

[SpursforSix]

^lol

[leemajors]

Did you see what he did when he got injured? Totally threw everyone under the bus.

I certainly didn't see it that way. The Seahawks didn't extend him and he snapped his leg, he had every right to be upset.

[spurraider21]

^lol
lol this is the turd that was sticking with tyrod taylor and carlos hyde instead of baker and chubb

[SpursforSix]

lol this is the turd that was sticking with tyrod taylor and carlos hyde instead of baker and chubb

he has no one to blame but himself. it's like he was seeing how many dumb things he could do before he got fired.

[spurraider21]

he has no one to blame but himself. it's like he was seeing how many dumb things he could do before he got fired.
i was a believer in hue for the longest time. watching him manage the team last year was a complete joke

chubb had 3 carries for 100+ yards and 2 long touchdowns against the raiders in a close loss. so naturally the following week chubb only got 3 carries while hyde got 17 and duke johnson got 5. the obvious talent gap aside, you have the guy on a rookie scale contract. use the fuck out of him now. running backs have shorter than usual shelf life anyway. dont piss away one of his few cheap seasons to led carlos hyde run for 3 yards and a cloud of dust

:lmao

[SpursforSix]

i was a believer in hue for the longest time. watching him manage the team last year was a complete joke

chubb had 3 carries for 100+ yards and 2 long touchdowns against the raiders in a close loss. so naturally the following week chubb only got 3 carries while hyde got 17 and duke johnson got 5. the obvious talent gap aside, you have the guy on a rookie scale contract. use the fuck out of him now. running backs have shorter than usual shelf life anyway. dont piss away one of his few cheap seasons to led carlos hyde run for 3 yards and a cloud of dust

:lmao

smh at these coaches that are so set in their ways that they won't even think about using the younger talent. With his job clearly in jeopardy, I have no idea why he didn't just go all in with Baker and Chubb early on.

[spurraider21]

smh at these coaches that are so set in their ways that they won't even think about using the younger talent. With his job clearly in jeopardy, I have no idea why he didn't just go all in with Baker and Chubb early on.
i mean for the sake of job preservation, if you're going to be losing, might as well lose with the young guys, so you can play the "they were young and inexperienced, but we wanted them to develop" card

barring a jeff fisher situation, the general feeling is that coaches will get a mulligan after a down season if there was a rookie qb, since the coach didnt have a fair shot or somethin

[SpursforSix]

i mean for the sake of job preservation, if you're going to be losing, might as well lose with the young guys, so you can play the "they were young and inexperienced, but we wanted them to develop" card

barring a jeff fisher situation, the general feeling is that coaches will get a mulligan after a down season if there was a rookie qb, since the coach didnt have a fair shot or somethin

Exactly. And it's not like riding Tyrod and Hyde were realistically going to turn shit around.

[Darth_Pelican]

Saints sign Malcom Brown 3 yr, 15 mil

[Will Hunting]

Saints sign Malcom Brown 3 yr, 15 mil
Good signing, maybe a tad overpaid but not by much. A complete non factor against the pass but as good of a run stuffer as they come.

Patriots need to restructure contracts to clear up some cap room or they’re going to be losing a lot of talent. IMO Brown was worth bringing back at this price.

[spurraider21]

Good signing, maybe a tad overpaid but not by much. A complete non factor against the pass but as good of a run stuffer as they come.

Patriots need to restructure contracts to clear up some cap room or they’re going to be losing a lot of talent. IMO Brown was worth bringing back at this price.
well for a couple of years they benefited from brady only asking for half his actual value. now he counts 27 mil against the cap. i also wonder whats happening with gronk, cause thats 9 mil in the balance

[spurraider21]

so the giants dumped beckham for draft picks, signaling a rebuild, but then give soon to be 31 year old golden tate 23.5 guaranteed, essentially 2.5 guaranteed years

why... same baffling move as the raiders who dumped mack a season before trading for antonio brown and paying him

[spurraider21]

Raiders just cut AJ McCarron and Jordy Nelson

no dead money from AJ (though we traded a 5th to get him), whereas cutting nelson costs us 1.8 mil

the mccarron pickup never made sense. i didnt mind the jordy signing, and he was about as good as crabtree without the headaches. but he was expendable when we brought in both AB and Tyrell Williams. though he could have been useful in the slot. seth roberts still on the roster, somehow. matt bonner of the raiders tbh. its just very clear that the raiders werent planning on gunning for AB until they got the price they did. because they already paid jordy's roster bonus for this year (the 1.8)...

we still had some cap room, so these cuts signal another move coming... there was speculation about them going after markus golden

[Will Hunting]

well for a couple of years they benefited from brady only asking for half his actual value. now he counts 27 mil against the cap. i also wonder whats happening with gronk, cause thats 9 mil in the balance
I think they'll easily be able to extend Brady to lower his cap hit into the low 20s. IIRC giving him an extension with more guaranteed money can be structured to lower the cap hit.

I'd be surprised if they don't try to renegotiate Gronk's contract if he comes back. I'd rather see him retire then eat up what his current cap hit is.

Cutting Adrian Clayborn also saves $4 mil which seems like a no brainer move.

[spurraider21]

I think they'll easily be able to extend Brady to lower his cap hit into the low 20s. IIRC giving him an extension with more guaranteed money can be structured to lower the cap hit.
yeah the common move is to take a chunk of the salary he is owed, convert it to a signing bonus (so he still gets paid right away), but the amount of that bonus only counts against the cap in a prorated amount for the duration of the contract. so you take is 1/27, convert 20 of it to a signing bonus and extend him out for a total of 3 years. so for this year, his salary is only 7 mil, while that 20 mil bonus (for cap purposes) is spread among the 3 years of the extension, so roughly 7 mil each year, bringing his cap total for 2019 to 14 mil. the rest of the extension terms are up to them, as far as base salary for the added years


I'd be surprised if they don't try to renegotiate Gronk's contract if he comes back. I'd rather see him retire then eat up what his current cap hit is.
yeah, i doubt he fetches that much on the market. he already made it clear last year he really wants to play for NE and nobody else, so he's not gonna have leverage besides the threat of retirement


Cutting Adrian Clayborn also saves $4 mil which seems like a no brainer move.
they're losing a lot of depth up front as it is, though

[Will Hunting]

so the giants dumped beckham for draft picks, signaling a rebuild, but then give soon to be 31 year old golden tate 23.5 guaranteed, essentially 2.5 guaranteed years

why... same baffling move as the raiders who dumped mack a season before trading for antonio brown and paying him
:lol I wanted the Patriots to get Tate, but not at that price

I don't understand how Leveon failed to cash in when every other free agent this year is able to.

[Will Hunting]

they're losing a lot of depth up front as it is, though
Draft is loaded with front 7 depth this year though, and a good 3rd round pick would be able to duplicate (or probably surpass) Clayborn's extremely underwhelming production.

Fortunately they have a few big positions of need (WR/TE & front 7) but outside of that they're pretty set everywhere else.

I think receiver is the only position they need to address in free agency but that'll be tough with the cap room they have.

[leemajors]

Hunt gets 8 games... Zeke 6 on nothing.

[spurraider21]

Draft is loaded with front 7 depth this year though, and a good 3rd round pick would be able to duplicate (or probably surpass) Clayborn's extremely underwhelming production.

Fortunately they have a few big positions of need (WR/TE & front 7) but outside of that they're pretty set everywhere else.

I think receiver is the only position they need to address in free agency but that'll be tough with the cap room they have.
pats cut clayborne. i think raiders need to take a look. they only have 1 DE on the roster right now and its Arden Key coming off a rookie season

[Will Hunting]

pats cut clayborne. i think raiders need to take a look. they only have 1 DE on the roster right now and its Arden Key coming off a rookie season
He’s not even close to an every down player, situational pass rusher at best, he was a healthy scratch for the last 3 regular season games.

Patriots are equally fucked at defensive end right now. Deatrich Wise (who shouldn’t be an every down player) and that’s pretty much it, but that didn’t stop them from cutting Clayborn.

[spurraider21]

He’s not even close to an every down player, situational pass rusher at best, he was a healthy scratch for the last 3 regular season games.

Patriots are equally fucked at defensive end right now. Deatrich Wise (who shouldn’t be an every down player) and that’s pretty much it, but that didn’t stop them from cutting Clayborn.
at his salary, sure. i still think he's roster worthy. and our roster right now only has 1 DE :lol

luckily we have 4 picks in the top 35. but knowing gruden we will probably draft a running back and TE somewhere

[spurraider21]

also, titans just traded for tannehill. weird

best case scenario is Cards draft Kyler Murray #1 overall and dolphins trade up into the top 3 to take Haskins or something. leave more players for us at #4. assuming murray goes #1, we're already guaranteed to land one of bosa/williams/allen

one of the dolphins/giants should be trading for josh rosen imho

[Will Hunting]

at his salary, sure. i still think he's roster worthy. and our roster right now only has 1 DE :lol

luckily we have 4 picks in the top 35. but knowing gruden we will probably draft a running back and TE somewhere
Fortunately the draft is probably deeper at DE than any other position this year so I’m guessing NE/Oak are hoping to completely retool at the position.

Patriots are supposedly closing on a deal with darius Philon, which should be enough to replace the production they had at D tackle with the depth players they agreed with yesterday.

Patriots basically have 6 needs to fill, a reserve tackle who’s also a contingency plan if Wynn doesn’t work, a young every down tight end, two receivers and two defensive ends.

[Will Hunting]

After all this time, every offseason is still the same string of "HEY BILL, WHAT THE FUCK?????" baffling decisions, but then it all works out :lol honestly, the few times I've been happy with a Patriots offseason, it was followed by an underachieving season.
IMO it's actually making sense to me what he's doing. The two positions (WR/DE) that are big WTFs right now are both positions he can add to through the draft this year so he wasn't going to break the bank for them in free agency.

He also made some underrated signings yesterday. Mike Pennel is an upgrade over Malcom Brown for less money, the coverage issues on special teams are largely fixed with Brooks & Bolden, and LaCosse can do what useless Dwayne Allen did for less money. If they can sign Philon then their interior D-line is the best it's been since probably 2014.

[Will Hunting]

Allen was a complete bust as a receiving tight end, but tbh he was a fantastic blocker who helped open up the running game a ton. Patriots going big with Allen & Gronk was basically like running with 7 offensive linemen on the field.

Really glad they didn't go for Golden Tate, that guy looked like he lost a step all year. Also happy they let spare ass Patterson and his 5-6 gimmick plays that almost never work go somewhere else. They need a receiver badly but so far they've played it smart not overpaying with Tate or Odell. I still have no clue what they are gonna do there, a rookie receiver either won't play much, or will play too much and drive Brady insane. And no way in hell can they go into next season with Hogan or Dorsett as their #2. Gordon could be playing next season, but clearly he can't ever be trusted in any way beyond a week to week basis.
I'd like to see them take a flyer on Demaryius if no one else is making an offer right now. Jordy Nelson also has what Belichick likes the most in receivers (whiteness) and he's available.

As fucked as they are at receiver, there isn't any contract a big name or semi-big name receiver got in free agency this year that I'd be OK with the Patriots giving out. I'd much rather them draft a few and take a flyer on guys like Thomas/Nelson and see how it plays out in training camp.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I'd like to see them take a flyer on Demaryius if no one else is making an offer right now. Jordy Nelson also has what Belichick likes the most in receivers (whiteness) and he's available.

As fucked as they are at receiver, there isn't any contract a big name or semi-big name receiver got in free agency this year that I'd be OK with the Patriots giving out. I'd much rather them draft a few and take a flyer on guys like Thomas/Nelson and see how it plays out in training camp.
DeMaryius is going to be suspended for his DUI which injured some chick in his car. Jordy Nelson is a no brainer, though, especially if they're not bringing back Hogan.

[spurraider21]

nelson would be nice. he's not taking the top off defenses anymore, but that hasnt exactly been Brady's MO recently anyway. he still has great hands

[Millennial_Messiah]

nelson would be nice. he's not taking the top off defenses anymore, but that hasnt exactly been Brady's MO recently anyway. he still has great hands

Yep. But Hogan's hands were criminally underrated, too. One of the most low-key huge plays in the championship game was Hogan's extremely tough diving catch in traffic on 3rd & 8 with the Pats losing about 2/3 of the way through the 4th quarter, shy of midfield. If he doesn't come down with it, the Pats likely punt and the Chiefs likely score again and put the game out of reach.

[spurraider21]

Yep. But Hogan's hands were criminally underrated, too. One of the most low-key huge plays in the championship game was Hogan's extremely tough diving catch in traffic on 3rd & 8 with the Pats losing about 2/3 of the way through the 4th quarter, shy of midfield. If he doesn't come down with it, the Pats likely punt and the Chiefs likely score again and put the game out of reach.
nelson's ability to make tough catches on the boundary already makes him a more valuable version of hogan. and he's bigger, so he has red zone value

[Will Hunting]

nelson's ability to make tough catches on the boundary already makes him a more valuable version of hogan. and he's bigger, so he has red zone value
This. Nelson would basically be an upgraded version of Hogan at the least. Nelson is by no means an ironman but he's also not the injury risk Hogan is.

Nelson + someone for depth in the slot in case Edelman slows down or gets injured/suspended again would be fine in addition to what they already have, but they do need to draft a young tight end early in the draft either way.

[FrostKing]

7+ pages discussing where some black guys are gonna live next year. Who cares

[Millennial_Messiah]

This. Nelson would basically be an upgraded version of Hogan at the least. Nelson is by no means an ironman but he's also not the injury risk Hogan is.

Nelson + someone for depth in the slot in case Edelman slows down or gets injured/suspended again would be fine in addition to what they already have, but they do need to draft a young tight end early in the draft either way.
I think they should keep Hogan AND sign Nelson, that would give Brady a quality enough core 3 (Nelson and Hogan outside + Edelman in the slot) + Phillip Dorsett who could play outside or slot if they absolutely need more speed at some point.

[leemajors]

Martellus staying retired

[spurraider21]

crofl vontaze burfict and antonio brown on the same team

[Millennial_Messiah]

crofl vontaze burfict and antonio brown on the same team

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[spurraider21]

good, there's some rumbling that the jets want to trade down with a team looking to move up and draft haskins. the more qb's taken in the top 3, the better the raiders pick will be

[Millennial_Messiah]

good, there's some rumbling that the jets want to trade down with a team looking to move up and draft haskins. the more qb's taken in the top 3, the better the raiders pick will be

Haskins has Winston written all over him. They're wasting their assets.

I don't think Carr is the long term answer for Vegas, but they should give him 1 opportunity to be that next year (with Brown, etc) and if they suck next year they'll have a lot better QB options to choose from in next year's draft.

[SpursforSix]

Haskins has Winston written all over him.

How so?


Besides a similar body type and look in the pocket, what else makes Haskins' game mirror Winston's strengths? Not much. Haskins is a more accurate passer, didn't perform in a pro-style heavy set in college and isn't the gunslinger type who at times was careless with the football. Winston's biggest knock was often trying to do too much when receivers weren't open and that often resulted in mistakes. The former Heisman winner's arm may have been stronger than Haskins, but the two are totally different quarterbacks.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dt04ElLXcAAVkOB.jpg

[spurraider21]

How so?
black

[SpursforSix]

black

I have no doubt that's the backbone of MM's "analysis". Another off the cuff comparison that really has no basis in reality.

[Millennial_Messiah]

black

& doesn't have the Vick, Struggle, Dak, Watson, Scam, Lamar thing to compensate for it.

[chunticakes]

How so?



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dt04ElLXcAAVkOB.jpg

Another horrible take by guitar dude :lol

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Panthers made nice moves for the offensive line re-signing All-Pro tackle Daryl Williams and signing Matt Paradis, center from Denver. Also signed OLB Bruce Irvin, as Panthers are moving to a 3-4

[spurraider21]

Panthers made nice moves for the offensive line re-signing All-Pro tackle Daryl Williams and signing Matt Paradis, center from Denver. Also signed OLB Bruce Irvin, as Panthers are moving to a 3-4
thats still a treadmill team tbh, and its not like they have any special draft capital. they dont have extra picks in the early rounds and pick #16 overall

paradis/irvin are nice but aren't addressing the elephant in the room which is Cam's injury and their lack of receivers. olsen coming off another injury. CMC isn't going to have a long career with his monster usage, so they really need to be winning now, and they dont have that kind of roster right now.

[spurraider21]

Justin Houston to indy

[Avant]

Haskins has Winston written all over him. They're wasting their assets.

I don't think Carr is the long term answer for Vegas, but they should give him 1 opportunity to be that next year (with Brown, etc) and if they suck next year they'll have a lot better QB options to choose from in next year's draft.

Haskins is absolutely nothing like Winston at all, where did you get that at?

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

thats still a treadmill team tbh, and its not like they have any special draft capital. they dont have extra picks in the early rounds and pick #16 overall

paradis/irvin are nice but aren't addressing the elephant in the room which is Cam's injury and their lack of receivers. olsen coming off another injury. CMC isn't going to have a long career with his monster usage, so they really need to be winning now, and they dont have that kind of roster right now.

Carolina is in a crossroads right now when it comes to their team - on the edge of competing and rebuilding. What you have to remember is that the Panthers were 6-2 with Cam healthy before being failed against Pittsburgh.

The fact of the matter is that Carolina will never be content with rebuilding as long as Newton, Kuechly, and Ron Rivera are on the team. We feel really good with the receivers we have, as DJ Moore and Curtis Samuel both have an opportunity this year (and the talent) to become true number one receivers. Olsen at this point is a complementary piece (rookie Ian Thomas took over with a decent amount of success last year).

I think we can compete, but I would not be surprised if we were mediocre. Remember,

[spurraider21]

Raven raiders signed your boy glennon

[Millennial_Messiah]

Glennon showed some lowkey Brady properties when in TB after Freeman got the axe.

Stood in the pocket, never got scramble happy but was great at dodging rushers from within the pocket, then delivered the accurate strike in tight quarters at the right time.

[Raven]

Raven (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=35860) raiders signed your boy glennon

Congrats tbh, easily the mest move your team made this season.

[chunticakes]

Aaaaand Gronk retires.

[spurraider21]

crowell visiting oakland


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2GMcjNyAyI

[spurraider21]

also pass interference is now reviewable

[spurraider21]

Giants/Pats/Chargers all showing interest in Josh Rosen.

i'd rather the pats land him, and the giants trade into the top 4 to draft a qb

[Will Hunting]

Giants/Pats/Chargers all showing interest in Josh Rosen.

i'd rather the pats land him, and the giants trade into the top 4 to draft a qb
Being able to trade a 2nd for him would be the dream scenario for New England.

[spurraider21]

Being able to trade a 2nd for him would be the dream scenario for New England.
would be a no brainer at that price.

[spurraider21]

no clue who this klatt guy is but rotoworld mentioned him

1110945828301144069

[Millennial_Messiah]

Rosen takes too many strip sacks. But that can be fixed. Brady had that problem early on but got better quickly.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I'm also glad they nixed the 4th & 15 "onside conversion" proposal. That gives such an unfair advantage to passing teams with the very best QBs even if they're not as good elsewhere (i.e. running game/defense/special teams). Green Gay, Chiefs, Colts, Saints, possibly Patriots get an unfair ace in the hole and quality teams like the Cowboys, Seahawks and Bears reap no benefit.

And think of all the penalties, automatic first downs? Especially now that they're reviewable? Good on the league and Goodell for axing this one.

[spurraider21]

1111360292280098816

[spurraider21]

marshall would we nice, as long as he's past his injuries from last season. crow-show just means they dont plan on waiting around for lynch. i still suspect they draft a running back

[Avant]

This Murray/Rosen thing is totally unique. I see a sad ending for the Cards, there is just something not right with Murray.

Joe Klatt is the NCAA football guru, the guy knows the college game.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Cowboys land Robert Quinn to replace Randy Gregory who's suspended for 1-2 years at least. Wonder if they'll give Quinn Gregory's number? Quinn has worn 94 his entire career & Gregory doesn't deserve it.

[leemajors]

Schiano resigned from Pats.

[spurraider21]

raiders signed crowell and brandon marshall to 1 year deals, as expected

[Will Hunting]

Schiano resigned from Pats.
Potential blessing in disguise.

Not sure who’s running the defense now.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Potential blessing in disguise.

Not sure who’s running the defense now.
DEFINITELY a blessing, not sure about disguise though. Dude was a laughingstock wherever he went. Even more so than either of the Ryan fatass brothers.

[spurraider21]

now that free agency dieded, just impatiently waiting for the draft. gonna be fun with us having 3 first round picks this year

[Millennial_Messiah]

now that free agency dieded, just impatiently waiting for the draft. gonna be fun with us having 3 first round picks this year

I'll probably sleep early that thursday nite

[Mark Celibate]

DEFINITELY a blessing, not sure about disguise though. Dude was a laughingstock wherever he went. Even more so than either of the Ryan fatass brothers.

rofl wasn't he the guy who tried to "innovate" sacking the quarterback on kneel down plays but immediately stopped after like two games once other teams were taking cheap shots on his own quarterback?

[Millennial_Messiah]

rofl wasn't he the guy who tried to "innovate" sacking the quarterback on kneel down plays but immediately stopped after like two games once other teams were taking cheap shots on his own quarterback?

I wouldn't doubt it. There's also this epic gem:

https://www.sbnation.com/2013/10/23/4862062/greg-schiano-breaking-madden


In the Spring of 2013, Schiano came out with this (only to cut him a few games into the season):

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000204649/article/greg-schiano-buccaneers-are-josh-freemans-team


There's also a somewhat-believable rumor out there that Schiano purposefully installed MRSA into his own team's locker room in Summer 2013 so it would spread thru the players and save him his job for at least another year. It partially worked. The team started 0-9 that year.


This guy is a freakin' lunatic that should be nowhere near an NFL team.

[spurraider21]

while i dont think it would be in the raiders best interest to take a QB this year... i've come to really like what i've seen from Haskins. he reminds me quite a bit of carson palmer. though big armed, tall, fat, black qb will always remind me of jawalrus, haskins is a more prolific passer. haskins only started 1 season, so he'd be a good draft pick for a team that wants to sit him a year (could be the raiders... i think giants are a perfect fit)

kyler murray is so electric though. he has great zip on his throws which you dont expect from a guy with his stature, and he's actually remarkably accurate too. his mobility is top tier, too. but its always concerning drafting a guy who's effectiveness is predicated on athletic ability, and especially for a small guy who can't take punishment like cam/ben/mcnair/mcnabb. 5'10 is also really, really small. and while the NFL has become more of a college esque passing league, NFL offenses are still not as wide open as college ones, linemen are bigger and taller, and the height is a legit concern. the best player to point to for him would be russell wilson, though murray is a more dynamic runner. wilson played in a pro style offense at wisconsin though, and that really helped him be effective early on in the NFL. murray has more of a learning curve ahead of him. lamar jackson comparisons are very unfair though.

like haskins, murray only started 1 season.

[spurraider21]

i'm not crazy about josh allen either... i think he's going to be a good player, but he's really an off-ball linebacker with pass rush ability... more so than an every down edge rusher type. he doesnt really have good pass rushing moves. he has great get-off and got a lot of his sacks just by running around slow college tackles, and a good amount of his sacks were actually plays he was unblocked and his great athletic traits got him there quickly. he's also pretty good in coverage, which is needed from today's linebacker.

but as a top 5 pick you're not really looking for an off-ball linebacker... you're looking for the von miller type who's going to whip NFL tackles and hold up in the run against them too. i dont think allen is that. but if the top 3 picks are Murray/Bosa/Quinnen, i still think you have to take him there. i just think quinnen/bosa are the best players in the draft and then allen is firmly a tier below.

[Millennial_Messiah]

i'm not crazy about josh allen either... i think he's going to be a good player, but he's really an off-ball linebacker with pass rush ability... more so than an every down edge rusher type. he doesnt really have good pass rushing moves. he has great get-off and got a lot of his sacks just by running around slow college tackles, and a good amount of his sacks were actually plays he was unblocked and his great athletic traits got him there quickly. he's also pretty good in coverage, which is needed from today's linebacker.

but as a top 5 pick you're not really looking for an off-ball linebacker... you're looking for the von miller type who's going to whip NFL tackles and hold up in the run against them too. i dont think allen is that. but if the top 3 picks are Murray/Bosa/Quinnen, i still think you have to take him there. i just think quinnen/bosa are the best players in the draft and then allen is firmly a tier below.
so you're saying Allen is an Anthony Barr/Donta Hightower type clone?

[spurraider21]

He’s more explosive/athletic than barr. Better coverage guy. I think Barr was a bit more polished coming out. allen doesnt seem to have real pass rush moves at this point, which barr did

but yeah I’d compare them positionally. Since the jets tried signing Barr pretty aggressively (he agrees then reneged), i could see them taking him #3 overall over quinnen

[Millennial_Messiah]

He’s more explosive/athletic than barr. Better coverage guy. I think Barr was a bit more polished coming out. allen doesnt seem to have real pass rush moves at this point, which barr did

but yeah I’d compare them positionally. Since the jets tried signing Barr pretty aggressively (he agrees then reneged), i could see them taking him #3 overall over quinnen

So he's basically a Jack linebacker. Guy who is a general OLB who can play in either a 4-3 or 3-4 and isn't top tier at anything, but can do all 3 things fairly competently enough (run stuff, pass rush and coverage) to get by.

This is the kind of guy who is best served ACROSS from an elite 3-4 edge rusher like Von Miller or Khalil Mack. Miller/Mack is going to be an every-down rusher whereas the Jack position is likely to short cover on base downs, and then could line up on-ball (pass rushing) or off-ball (coverage/spy) when the defense moves to nickel.

Personally that type of player is a premium chess piece due to versatility and is almost a must have if you want to build a great defense. They're fairly hard to find, too. Seattle's LOB had one in Bruce Irvin but let him get away and were never the same after that... just an example.

I'm not sure Quinnen Williams is going to be an elite DT in the NFL. He's way too undersized to be a 3-4 NT, too undersized to be a 4-3 1DT and doesn't have near the Aaron Donald speed/athleticism to make up for that and be an elite 4-3 3DT or 3-4 ODE. Donald ran a 4.68. QWilliams' best position is probably a 3-4 IDE (possibly the sub package DT, but in base mostly a two-gap position) but he's going to have to do something about that size/speed combo to be great in the NFL. Either he needs to bulk up and be a fortress against the run or trim down and try to become a pass rusher in the Aaron Donald mold. But 6'4" 298 with a 4.83 40 yard dash is a tweener. That probably won't be effective in the NFL.

[spurraider21]

i wouldn't say he's "not top tier at anything" just because he's an exceptional athlete. he's bound to shine because of his range. i think you could see him as a barr/jaylon smith hybrid. he has great speed/range but can also pass rush.

i think he's gonna be really good. i just think teams would be mistaken to draft him thinking he's gonna be von miller/vic beasley or that role generally

but who knows maybe im wrong and he becomes a sack master. its just my take from what i've seen, as he's one of the guys the raiders will be considering at that spot

[Millennial_Messiah]

i wouldn't say he's "not top tier at anything" just because he's an exceptional athlete. he's bound to shine because of his range. i think you could see him as a barr/jaylon smith hybrid. he has great speed/range but can also pass rush.

i think he's gonna be really good. i just think teams would be mistaken to draft him thinking he's gonna be von miller/vic beasley or that role generally

but who knows maybe im wrong and he becomes a sack master. its just my take from what i've seen, as he's one of the guys the raiders will be considering at that spot
If they wanted to the Raiders could give up the Dallas pick and get Bosa.

[spurraider21]

If they wanted to the Raiders could give up the Dallas pick and get Bosa.
i dont think they should move up from 4. if bosa/quinnen are both off the board, i would even entertain a trade back to a team that really wants allen or haskins. trade back a handful of spots and take the best DE there... sweat or gary. or even devin white at MLB if he's on the board.

i think if they want to move up they should just trade 2 of their other picks (24, 27, and 35) to get a higher first round pick. i also wouldn't oppose trading back further. this team has a lot of holes... the more picks the merrier.

dream scenario is having one of bosa/williams fall to 4, have clelin ferrel slip to 24, and then take a CB like Greedy/Baker/Ya Sin at 27. then i think they should consider josh jacobs at 35

[Millennial_Messiah]

i dont think they should move up from 4. if bosa/quinnen are both off the board, i would even entertain a trade back to a team that really wants allen or haskins. trade back a handful of spots and take the best DE there... sweat or gary. or even devin white at MLB if he's on the board.

i think if they want to move up they should just trade 2 of their other picks (24, 27, and 35) to get a higher first round pick. i also wouldn't oppose trading back further. this team has a lot of holes... the more picks the merrier.

dream scenario is having one of bosa/williams fall to 4, have clelin ferrel slip to 24, and then take a CB like Greedy/Baker/Ya Sin at 27. then i think they should consider josh jacobs at 35

This year's draft class is 2 rounds deep of red chip talent (especially on defense) if you're not overly excited about blue chippers like Bosa and don't think Allen is a blue chipper. The Raiders can probably have up to 6 top 35 picks if they wanted to make some trade downs, which is probably best for their franchise if Gruden will allow that. They have a terrible roster currently and need a ton of upgrades everywhere. Maybe they can spend a late first round pick on Jeffrey Simmons who was a blue chip talent before the injury.

And yes, if some team like Miami comes calling for a trade up for Haskins, by all means take their 1st, 2nd, and 1st next year. But if you're trading down from 4, ideally you want 2 current year firsts. Haskins has bust potential written all over.

[spurraider21]

This year's draft class is 2 rounds deep of red chip talent (especially on defense) if you're not overly excited about blue chippers like Bosa and don't think Allen is a blue chipper. The Raiders can probably have up to 6 top 35 picks if they wanted to make some trade downs, which is probably best for their franchise if Gruden will allow that. They have a terrible roster currently and need a ton of upgrades everywhere. Maybe they can spend a late first round pick on Jeffrey Simmons who was a blue chip talent before the injury.

And yes, if some team like Miami comes calling for a trade up for Haskins, by all means take their 1st, 2nd, and 1st next year. But if you're trading down from 4, ideally you want 2 current year firsts. Haskins has bust potential written all over.
its very unusual for a team to have 2 current year firsts.

[Millennial_Messiah]

its very unusual for a team to have 2 current year firsts.

Didn't the Colts do it last year with somebody?

[spurraider21]

:lol i dont frequent The Root but this came up when i ran a search on Nick Bosa today

https://www.theroot.com/maga-loving-colin-kaepernick-hating-top-nfl-draft-pros-1833975768

[spurraider21]

Didn't the Colts do it last year with somebody?
nah. they traded with the jets, who did have 2 second round picks.

jets gave up two 2018 seconds and a 2019 second to move up from 6 to 3 and grab darnold

abysmal trade for them imo. colts still grabbed the guy they wanted, quentin nelson. i think colts woulda taken barkley if he was on the board, but they traded back and still got the guy they wanted at 3

[Millennial_Messiah]

:lol i dont frequent The Root but this came up when i ran a search on Nick Bosa today

https://www.theroot.com/maga-loving-colin-kaepernick-hating-top-nfl-draft-pros-1833975768

Put him in a division with multiple black QBs and it's a sweet deal, tbh.

[spurraider21]

Put him in a division with multiple black QBs and it's a sweet deal, tbh.
raiders just signed benson mayowa

imo he's better than khalil mack

[Millennial_Messiah]

raiders just signed benson mayowa

imo he's better than khalil mack

Half of Mayowa's 12 sacks when he played for the Cowboys were against Giants' maligned ex-left tackle Ereck Flowers.

He's mediocre at best. His last year here he only had 1 or 2 sacks in plenty of snaps. I think we cut him halfway thru that season. He is pretty fast, though. But if the tackle gets his hands on him, it's night-night.

[Millennial_Messiah]

nah. they traded with the jets, who did have 2 second round picks.

jets gave up two 2018 seconds and a 2019 second to move up from 6 to 3 and grab darnold

abysmal trade for them imo. colts still grabbed the guy they wanted, quentin nelson. i think colts woulda taken barkley if he was on the board, but they traded back and still got the guy they wanted at 3

The Raiders, Giants and Packers all have multiple current year 1st this year.

Could the Giants trade them both to the Raiders for #4 overall? If this year's QB class wasn't so weak, I'd say they should. But they still seem married to Eli long term, lol.

Do you think the Packers would entertain trading up to #4? Where their picks are, they'd probably have to include both PLUS either next year's 1st or this year's 2nd to jump to #4 overall. If they really like a QB this year, they should consider it so they can speed up their rebuilding process once they're ready to get rid of Aaron Rodgers for one reason or another. They can develop a guy like Lock or Dan Jones behind Rodgers and ultimately kick Rodgers to the curb in 3 years once his cap hit becomes 5x the dead money cost to cut him. (Similar to Favre with Rodgers.)

[spurraider21]

The Raiders, Giants and Packers all have multiple current year 1st this year.

Could the Giants trade them both to the Raiders for #4 overall? If this year's QB class wasn't so weak, I'd say they should. But they still seem married to Eli long term, lol.

Do you think the Packers would entertain trading up to #4? Where their picks are, they'd probably have to include both PLUS either next year's 1st or this year's 2nd to jump to #4 overall. If they really like a QB this year, they should consider it so they can speed up their rebuilding process once they're ready to get rid of Aaron Rodgers for one reason or another. They can develop a guy like Lock or Dan Jones behind Rodgers and ultimately kick Rodgers to the curb in 3 years once his cap hit becomes 5x the dead money cost to cut him. (Similar to Favre with Rodgers.)
lol if the giants give up #6 and #17 just to move up to #4 and take a QB raiders should take that in a heartbeat. heck just throw in a pick swap for one of the later rounds to give the giants a bone. the likely outcome of that would be

1 - Arizona - Kyler Murray
2 - SF - Nick Bosa
3 - NYJ - Josh Allen
4 - NYG - Dwayne Haskins
5 - Tampa Bay
6 - Oakland

theres still a shot the raiders could wind up with quinnen williams. otherwise montez sweat/rashan gary are options at #6. and then we'd still have #17, 24, 27 in the first round. or if you actually get quinnen at 6, take clelin ferrel at DE at 17

i cant imagine the giants give up that much capital to move up 2 spots

[Millennial_Messiah]

lol if the giants give up #6 and #17 just to move up to #4 and take a QB raiders should take that in a heartbeat. heck just throw in a pick swap for one of the later rounds to give the giants a bone. the likely outcome of that would be

1 - Arizona - Kyler Murray
2 - SF - Nick Bosa
3 - NYJ - Josh Allen
4 - NYG - Dwayne Haskins
5 - Tampa Bay
6 - Oakland

theres still a shot the raiders could wind up with quinnen williams. otherwise montez sweat/rashan gary are options at #6. and then we'd still have #17, 24, 27 in the first round. or if you actually get quinnen at 6, take clelin ferrel at DE at 17

i cant imagine the giants give up that much capital to move up 2 spots

No, but crazier things have happened, like what the Bears did a couple years ago. Even the Giants did something stupid last year which is draft a RB #2 overall when they had multiple offers to trade down and build up their lowly roster.

I like your mock, especially since the Jets got Mosley and just missed out on Barr, they probably want to draft his replacement. Tampa Bay very well might draft Haskins though as he seems like the QB that fits what TB upper management likes in a QB (basically he's considered a rich man's Winston). So in view of that the Giants could try to jump them if they really want Haskins. But I don't think the Giants really want Haskins, I think they're married to the snowball-chance allure of Eli eventually getting #3... but we'll see.

Raiders need a whole front 7 and a tight end, the more red chip picks they can get the better.

[spurraider21]

lol still pushing the haskins/winston comparison because they're big black qb's. might as well lump in jamarcus, geno, and leftwich while you're at it. the better winston comp is somebody like big ben. aggressive passer, big qb with some escapability but not really a runner

haskins is much more in the bledsoe/palmer/flacco mold. big/immobile qb with strong, accurate arm and good touch. his biggest issue at this point is lack of experience as he only really played 1 year

[Millennial_Messiah]

lol still pushing the haskins/winston comparison because they're big black qb's. might as well lump in jamarcus, geno, and leftwich while you're at it. the better winston comp is somebody like big ben. aggressive passer, big qb with some escapability but not really a runner

haskins is much more in the bledsoe/palmer/flacco mold. big/immobile qb with strong, accurate arm and good touch. his biggest issue at this point is lack of experience as he only really played 1 year

Haskins is like the opposite of what people think of as a black QB. Holy shit, looked it up and he ran a 5.04 40-yard dash. :lmao I could do better than that wearing a leather jacket and cowboy boots. However, Madden will still give him like 87 speed and 88 acceleration lmao...

I just don't think Haskins is "accurate" enough though he has a big arm. Doubt he has the brains to be elite in terms of reads, etc at the NFL level. He's the type that probably will chuck it deep with his eyes half closed at the first sign of pressure because he knows he's not fast or elusive enough to get around the pass rush. Though he's probably big enough to stiff arm a DB blitzer, I guess.

If you don't like the Winston comparison, here's another one... EJ Manuel? Dude was hyped as a big pocket strong arm, tough to bring down guy coming out of college but never really made it in the NFL.

[spurraider21]

Haskins is like the opposite of what people think of as a black QB. Holy shit, looked it up and he ran a 5.04 40-yard dash. :lmao I could do better than that wearing a leather jacket and cowboy boots. However, Madden will still give him like 87 speed and 88 acceleration lmao...
no they wont


I just don't think Haskins is "accurate" enough though he has a big arm.
why? because he's black?

his stats on their face show good accuracy. and yeah stats aren't everything, especially when translating QB's to the NFL. so what, have you watched a lot of game tapes from haskins? i doubt it. you just see black qb and assume inaccurate


Doubt he has the brains to be elite in terms of reads, etc at the NFL level.
why, because he's black?


He's the type that probably will chuck it deep with his eyes half closed at the first sign of pressure because he knows he's not fast or elusive enough to get around the pass rush.[
why, because he's black?

if you've watched him, you'd see that haskins excels in the short/intermediate passing game, loves concepts like shallow crosses. exactly the opposite of what you're talking about


Though he's probably big enough to stiff arm a DB blitzer, I guess.

If you don't like the Winston comparison, here's another one... EJ Manuel? Dude was hyped as a big pocket strong arm, tough to bring down guy coming out of college but never really made it in the NFL.
EJ Manuel? you're an idiot. just because they're both black? EJ Manuel was billed as an athletic qb with a big arm. here's the first scouting report of him i pulled up

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2013emanuel.php

strenths: dual threat, big arm, excellent mobility, escapability, quick release

weaknesses: not a natural passer, decision making, field vision, struggles to make progressions, runs too quickly, spotty accuracy

other than the big arm... there's nothing to compare these guys with except for the fact that they're black. you're an idiot and just racist tbh

[Millennial_Messiah]

no they wont


why? because he's black?

his stats on their face show good accuracy. and yeah stats aren't everything, especially when translating QB's to the NFL. so what, have you watched a lot of game tapes from haskins? i doubt it. you just see black qb and assume inaccurate


why, because he's black?


why, because he's black?

if you've watched him, you'd see that haskins excels in the short/intermediate passing game, loves concepts like shallow crosses. exactly the opposite of what you're talking about


EJ Manuel? you're an idiot. just because they're both black? EJ Manuel was billed as an athletic qb with a big arm. here's the first scouting report of him i pulled up

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2013emanuel.php

strenths: dual threat, big arm, excellent mobility, escapability, quick release

weaknesses: not a natural passer, decision making, field vision, struggles to make progressions, runs too quickly, spotty accuracy

other than the big arm... there's nothing to compare these guys with except for the fact that they're black. you're an idiot and just racist tbh

I think Murray is the clear choice because he has a baseball arm and he's clearly somewhere between Jackson/Vick and Russell Wilson. If he doesn't make all the right reads right away, who cares --if he can dodge 3 guys and sprint to the sticks on 3rd & 7. To me that's why he's the safest pick in a lousy QB class.

I'm not disagreeing with Haskins being a black Flacco, (post injury) Bledsoe or Carson Palmer. I also don't think that type of guy is the guy you want as your franchise QB in today's game. If he's not Brady he's going to take a lot of strip sacks and succumb hard to today's interior-rush (DTs and A-gap blitz) driven defensive schemes.

Drew Lock and Daniel Jones are both tall and full figured, and plenty mobile though don't scramble at the drop of hat they're a lot more athletic than Haskins. Either one could become Bortles but they could also become Wentz.

Will Grier... don't know too much about that guy, he'll probably be a decent backup/part time starter.

[spurraider21]

Crofl complete change of topic after getting called out. This is why you’re on ignore. Gonna go back to not clicking the view post button.

[Avant]

For one game a guy like Kyler Murray will make enough big plays to give this illusion he is a legit NFL QB. Then as the weeks go by he'll start to waver and we will see he's too small, he's too dumb to make it work. The way he runs will not work at the NFL level for very long.

Everyone wanting a Russell Wilson, well there is only one.

[chunticakes]

Crofl complete change of topic after getting called out. This is why you’re on ignore. Gonna go back to not clicking the view post button.

I'm on the verge of adding him with Avante on ignore. I just have fun lumping his shit takes on SFS's thread, tbh..

[Millennial_Messiah]

For one game a guy like Kyler Murray will make enough big plays to give this illusion he is a legit NFL QB. Then as the weeks go by he'll start to waver and we will see he's too small, he's too dumb to make it work. The way he runs will not work at the NFL level for very long.

Everyone wanting a Russell Wilson, well there is only one.
Lamar jackson?

[Millennial_Messiah]

I'm on the verge of adding him with Avante on ignore. I just have fun lumping his shit takes on SFS's thread, tbh..

Only pussies & assholes use the ignore user feature on an internet message board.

[SpursforSix]

Only pussies & assholes use the ignore user feature on an internet message board.

You have by far the worst football takes of anyone. Including Avante. It’s always just some random shit that’s akin to some chick who’s seen a game or two.

[Will Hunting]

Patriots sign Demaryius, as I was hoping for.

Only winners get wings

[Mark Celibate]

Rofl the undressing of MM by spurraider was gold imo

[Millennial_Messiah]

Patriots sign Demaryius, as I was hoping for.

Only winners get wings

Yikes... 21 TD season upcoming from a big WR who everyone thought was washed up and done.

[Will Hunting]

Yikes... 21 TD season upcoming from a big WR who everyone thought was washed up and done.
If Josh Gordon can by some miracle come back next season NFL = f:lolcked

Still think they need to use a first rounder on a tight end...not confident ASJ is any good.

Gronk kinda fucked them for announcing his retirement after free agency was over, they would have had a lot more cap room to work with.

[Will Hunting]

Patriots re-signing Jamie Collins is also a no brained move imo. Him with Bentley coming back next year would give them athleticism at linebacker they haven’t had in years.

[Millennial_Messiah]

If Josh Gordon can by some miracle come back next season NFL = f:lolcked

Still think they need to use a first rounder on a tight end...not confident ASJ is any good.

Gronk kinda fucked them for announcing his retirement after free agency was over, they would have had a lot more cap room to work with.

Gordon won't be back. He cares about as much about football as the Cowboys' David Irving.


Maybe D. Thomas can bulk up that big body and become a TE of sorts? He isn't beating anyone deep anymore, that's for sure.

[Will Hunting]

Gordon won't be back. He cares about as much about football as the Cowboys' David Irving.


Maybe D. Thomas can bulk up that big body and become a TE of sorts? He isn't beating anyone deep anymore, that's for sure.
All of his teammates in NE say Gordon worked hard in practice to learn the playbook on the fly. His issue isn’t not caring about football, it’s mental health.

[FrostKing]

Official 2019 Black Thread