The Kawhi/DeMar trade is one of the most lopsided trades of the decade

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Spurs finally found their own Antoine Walker.

The scary thing is, even if the Spurs make the playoffs, DeRozan plays much worse.

What an absolute disaster of a season.

[timtonymanu]

Everyone deep down truly knew this.

No amounts of excuses like “he’s a better playmaker,” “has better chemistry with Aldridge,” “he can excel in :pop:’s system,”. was ever gonna change that. The sooner PATFO realizes this and trades him the better.

[james evans]

So Derozan is no longer better than Leonard on the forum? How long did it take y’all to realize this obvious shit?

[james evans]

Everyone deep down truly knew this.

No amounts of excuses like “he’s a better playmaker,” “has better chemistry with Aldridge,” “he can excel in :pop:’s system,”. was ever gonna change that. The sooner PATFO realizes this and trades him the better.
since he’s playing like complete dogshit, I expect him to sign a $150 million extension

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Everyone deep down truly knew this.

No amounts of excuses like “he’s a better playmaker,” “has better chemistry with Aldridge,” “he can excel in :pop:’s system,”. was ever gonna change that. The sooner PATFO realizes this and trades him the better.

My favourite was “He’ll make the Spurs a better team than last year!”

The guy is an automatic net negative every time he steps onto the court and one of the worst defenders in the league. Awful awful awful all around.

[Mr. Body]

What the fuck were they supposed to do? Seriously. No trades were good. The whole fucking thing sucked and Kawhi did everything in his power to reduce his trade value.

[TDomination]

You're right. We should've just resigned kawhi. what was PATFO thinking!?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

What the fuck were they supposed to do? Seriously. No trades were good. The whole fucking thing sucked and Kawhi did everything in his power to reduce his trade value.

Trade for someone who literally hasn’t been a net negative for a majority of their career. Not getting someone back as good as Kawhi wasn’t the issue, getting someone who makes every lineup worse is.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Yeah? The Cavs traded Kyrie Irving for Isaiah Thomas, a couple of filler players, and the Nets #8 pick. Then Isaiah Thomas failed his physical, so the Cavs got an extra second round pick.

And that's without going back in time. Dallas got Nowitzki in exchange for Robert Tractor Traylor and some other crap. Barkley to Phoenix? I think Barkley was the MVP the next season, and made the next 4-5 All Star teams.

[DAF86]

What the fuck were they supposed to do? Seriously. No trades were good. The whole fucking thing sucked and Kawhi did everything in his power to reduce his trade value.

If no trades were good, then make no trade at all.

[slick'81]

Its only the worse of the decade if tor wins the finals and kawhi stays. along with us missing the postseason

[Spurs Homer]

Actually, the Georgie to indiana? that got the spurs the 14th pick which ended up being Kawhi

was a worse trade because it cursed the Spurs with a backstabbing quitter who betrayed the franchise -
and

the spurs lost pops favorite player too.

[HarlemHeat37]

The Harden trade and Gerald Wallace move were far worse, off the top of my head..

[Barfunk]

Take a look at the Los Angeles Birthday Cakers. Even with the best player in the world, surrounded by "better talent" than the Spurs, they still drop a game to the shit Hawks.

[313]

Not even top 10

Unfortunate how everything went down though

[HarlemHeat37]

Maybe if you're looking at it from a ONE season standpoint..the Raptors got the 2 best players in the deal for this season..however, Kawhi will be a Clipper next year and Danny will either leave or won't play as well in a non-contract year..it didn't really change anything for the Spurs in the grand scheme..

[DPG21920]

Im just glad SA didn’t get stuck with Kuz and Ingram. That would have sucked so bad.

[Hoops Czar]

It certainly wasn't worse than Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol.

[timtonymanu]

Agree that Nephew put the Spurs in a bad spot and teams probably weren't interested in an injury prone player who quit on his team. I just find it hilarious how some were convincing themselves the Spurs were better off with Demar vs Kawhi. Just read back to timvp's thread about the trade and why Demar to Spurs was a good move. :lol

[Dex]

I'm not going to sell the guy out after one-half of a bad season...but it's seriously becoming concerning. Like...WTF concerning.

He just looks like shit out there. Bad shots, bad body language, can't score, isn't moving the ball properly anymore...It's like he wilted when the team actually started improving around him.

It's almost like he checked out after that trip-dub against his former team.

[Hoops Czar]

Im just glad SA didn’t get stuck with Kuz and Ingram. That would have sucked so bad.
Why? Kuzma and Ingram won't be destroying cap space for the next three years. At worst, they're tradeable assets which can be used in future trades.

[Mikeanaro]

The good news is he can be worse.
:danceclub

[spursistan]

Yeah, even if you factor in the rental part, this is gotta be one of the most underwhelming haul ever received in Superstar-centered trades..

The lack of upside in the return is staggering (unless SA hit on jimmy Butler or someone close with the 28-29th pick)..

[Kurgan]

What makes the deal really lopsided was also sending out Danny Green and receiving no one back to fill the void left at the wing position. Should have pushed hard for Siakam or even Anunoby instead of Poetl who hasn't done jack shit for us.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Yeah? The Cavs traded Kyrie Irving for Isaiah Thomas, a couple of filler players, and the Nets #8 pick. Then Isaiah Thomas failed his physical, so the Cavs got an extra second round pick.

And that's without going back in time. Dallas got Nowitzki in exchange for Robert Tractor Traylor and some other crap. Barkley to Phoenix? I think Barkley was the MVP the next season, and made the next 4-5 All Star teams.

I said this decade

[Ozballer]

The issue is not so much the Spurs BUT the true star value worth a trade for Kawhi Leonard. As it turned out, most teams stayed put on him. It is simply a reflection of the current market and Kawhi's value in trade chips. Bottom line, it is always a gamble. If you look at DDR it has been a 50/50 scenario this season. First half had a lot of promise. In all fairness, something appears not quite right with him at present though. Time will tell. Anthony Davis was supposedly the easiest of deals before the trade window opened up and as it stands, he is still a Pel...Bottom line, teams in contention are reluctant to trade their established stars for another star that always has a potential to go pear shape. And why would they? Hence, the Spurs approach in building from the ground up patiently and having a transitional few years with senior players and competing for playoffs whilst a team finally comes together ain't bad at all. That or the 1 minute succesful NBA GM handbook. Is in on amazon?

[daslicer]

OP is always on suicide watch but anyways I don't care anymore about who won the trade. I have moved on. #2 Put the Spurs in an awful position where they were never going to win on the trade. Spurs need to focus on now getting a big wing defender at the 3. Most likely they will have to find that player through the draft and develop him.

[Boomersgold]

Spurs fan mentality
Kawhi before he left: "Kawhi sucks. Trade him"
Kawhi after he left: "We miss you, Kawhi"

[spursistan]

What makes the deal really lopsided was also sending out Danny Green and receiving no one back to fill the void left at the wing position. Should have pushed hard for Siakam or even Anunoby instead of Poetl who hasn't done jack shit for us.

1095152494865469440

Seeing our FO getting clowned by Raptors fans/'VORP twitter' gurus over the Green throwaway hurts. It is like we've become just another dumb team in the league

Not against moving Green but it should've been done through a separate route where you attempt to get an asset for him, especially in the current arms race out EAST (or you keep him expiring since you knew you have the most injury-prone wing rotation in the league). The fact they have haven't dared the Raptors with some brinkmanship over Mills/Gasol instead of Green is utterly negligent.

Masai Ujiri styled on RC/Pop in this trade, no other way around it. He achieved everything he wanted: shook-up the Raptors without losing any prized young talent/assets and salary-dumped Derozan for two proven playoffs performers (a superstar + 3&D wing with league-wide rep among Executives and the Zach Lowes of the media)..

[tonski17]

deMar will be the spurs' franchise player.:flag: :lobt:

[Spurs fever]

That trade broke DeMar.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Spurs finally found their own Antoine Walker.


I said this decade


I thought it was fair to go back farther when you threw in Antoine Walker. Still, Kyrie was only two seasons ago, and that was at least as lopsided. I get it, though, DDR has been pretty spotty since the Toronto game.

[rasuo214]

Seems like the Spurs were scared of taking a risk and making a "bad" (from an optics pov) trade or a trade for the future so they went the safer route of wanting a big name player in return. Compare it to the PG trade, the Pacers got shit on for making that trade but looking at it now Oladipo and Sabonis looks to have been a pretty decent package considering the situation and they've done better than with PG (albeit PG is having an MVP season and Oladipo suffered a major injury this season).

But maybe they get a steal with the draft pick and salvage the trade.

[spursistan]

If no trades were good, then make no trade at all.

A 70-year-old Pop coming off the death of his wife didn't have the stomach for this type of tension/turmoil anymore. He just wanted to get done with it swiftly and enjoy a peaceful summer.

This is the downside of having guys with one foot in retirement still calling the shots..It almost always goes wrong in sport or business.

[ZeusWillJudge]

There is a reason why Colin Cowherd is blocked on Olympus. And now this whinefest thread is too.

[Rusty]

If Kawhi leaves Toronto, the trade won’t look that bad

[R. DeMurre]

Impossible to judge right now. Of course Toronto got the better end of it this year, but if they don't make it to the finals and Kawhi leaves, it'll just be an interesting risk-taking season that didn't pan out. On the other hand, if the Spurs trade DeRozan and a draft pick or two for a great player in the draft or a starting SF, it might work out long-term for them. We'll see....

[MoSpur02]

Im just glad SA didn’t get stuck with Kuz and Ingram. That would have sucked so bad.

Would you trade Derozan for those two players, Hart, and a Lakers first round pick in the summer now that you've seen Derozan?

[monty4329]

What the fuck were they supposed to do? Seriously. No trades were good. The whole fucking thing sucked and Kawhi did everything in his power to reduce his trade value.

Sad truth.
But there's people here saying there were better trades but were kept secret....
DDR is not bad technically, potential is there, unfortunately he lost his balls somewhere -I don't know how much this was predictable, the guy has an history of mental health problems (nothing wrong, it happens): a downfall like this is so vertical and deep that probably nobody could fathom it.

[monty4329]

I have to admit, throwing Green in as salary ballast really hurt. Of course, people here never valued Danny for his D as much as they should have. Now they can see how much difference it made having him on the floor.

Green wanted out. He quite said so when talking about his misdiagnosed injury. Anyway everybody here was pissing on him all the time.

[kaji157]

If kawhi stays (healthy) in Toronto, then yes.
But we all knew that.
Still need to wait if one year under his belt with the Spurs improves DeMar mentality as it did with Aldridge.
And also what happens with Leonard and his "Entourage".

[r0drig0lac]

if I were one of the people who believed Demar was a better offensive player than Kawhi, I would seriously consider not watching more basketball, bbecause in this case my assessment of the game would be so out of touch with reality that it is scary, watching games is still more important than reading advanced stats, some people got lost believing the opposite.



That trade broke DeMar.

yes, brought him to the real basketball conference where Lebron James can not make playoffs just for being Lebron James

[tbdog]

Why? Kuzma and Ingram won't be destroying cap space for the next three years. At worst, they're tradeable assets which can be used in future trades.

Ingram was off the table.

[SouthTexasRancher]

I guess the bright light to the trade is we could have been the Thunder who could have possibly won 3 or 4 championships by now. Russel Westbrook, James Harden, Kevin Durant and Serge Ibaka. I just can't figure out what is going on with DD. Something is going on in his head. Maybe depression and if so get him some help.

I wish we could/would make some crazy trades before next season even if it means trading LMA and DD and of course Pau Gasol. RC will probably be too damn drunk to come up with anything.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Spurs finally found their own Antoine Walker.

The scary thing is, even if the Spurs make the playoffs, DeRozan plays much worse.

What an absolute disaster of a season.

Worst trade of the decade? I'm thinking it may go down as the worst trade the franchise has ever made. And this goes back to the first trade they made after merging into the NBA by trading a #1 draft pick to the Lakers for a old worn out Mack Calvin, which also laid the foundation for us being the Lakers farm team bitch. Then Frank Brickowski to Milwaukee for an old crippled Paul Pressey. Pop's first trade for an old crippled highly paid Charles Smith.

But trading Kawhi AND Danny Green for a guy whose team benched him in the playoffs for choking plus filler and a very low #1 pick?? Just because the coach didn't want to rebuild with youth? We'll never know exactly what we could have got from the Clippers, Sixers or Boston regarding picks and young players, but I would have preferred that trade any day over this Toronto disaster.
Then have moved Danny and Aldredge in separate deals fir picks and/or young players. I wouldn't have minded tanking watching a bunch of young players develop and knowing we had more to come in the next 2 years . But watching this slow death vs what we could have had is hard to stomach.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

I don't think it's possible to play worse in the playoffs than he did today. The man shot 5-19 after all :lol

Kawhi screwed us over though. He torpedoed his trade value to the point where the 76ers wouldn't even offer Fultz to us! The only good trade offered was supposedly the Clipper trade but A) nobody actually knows if that was really offered and B) nobody really expected Harris to be this good this year.

Lakers were offering only Ingram and everything you hate about DDR is magnified by 100 with Ingram. For a Duke player he is really dumb. I rather pay DDR $27 million a year than Ingram (and yes I know ppl will say but he's young and has potential) but the difference is that he is like Lonnie now. Too dumb to play and needs years of coaching and development which we can't offer him before his contract year arrives. He needs to be rebuilt completely.

tbh if Kawhi would've actually played when healthy or not said LA or nothing then we would've gotten back a haul for him instead of Demar bleeping DeRozan

[monty4329]

Worst trade of the decade? I'm thinking it may go down as the worst trade the franchise has ever made. And this goes back to the first trade they made after merging into the NBA by trading a #1 draft pick to the Lakers for a old worn out Mack Calvin, which also laid the foundation for us being the Lakers farm team bitch. Then Frank Brickowski to Milwaukee for an old crippled Paul Pressey. Pop's first trade for an old crippled highly paid Charles Smith.

But trading Kawhi AND Danny Green for a guy whose team benched him in the playoffs for choking plus filler and a very low #1 pick?? Just because the coach didn't want to rebuild with youth? We'll never know exactly what we could have got from the Clippers, Sixers or Boston regarding picks and young players, but I would have preferred that trade any day over this Toronto disaster.
Then have moved Danny and Aldredge in separate deals fir picks and/or young players. I wouldn't have minded tanking watching a bunch of young players develop and knowing we had more to come in the next 2 years . But watching this slow death vs what we could have had is hard to stomach.

I guess you like the Suns then...five years ago, now, and five years from now. But they got young picks, oh yeah...

In modern NBA there is not a single top team who got up there by drafting, except maybe SF and only by sheer luck (Curry #7 only because of his ankle). You need FA and trades. Not even Philly accomplished anything with a gazillion top picks. They had to trade to become relevant, and still may not even get to conference finals.

[sananspursfan21]

Should have taken the Anthony Davis + a 1st rounder for Kawhi amirite amirite??

[superbigtime]

He sucks. Period. Spurs have been completely undressed.

[monty4329]

Should have taken the Anthony Davis + a 1st rounder for Kawhi amirite amirite??

:smokin

[Twisted_Dawg]

I guess you like the Suns then...five years ago, now, and five years from now. But they got young picks, oh yeah...

In modern NBA there is not a single top team who got up there by drafting, except maybe SF and only by sheer luck (Curry #7 only because of his ankle). You need FA and trades. Not even Philly accomplished anything with a gazillion top picks. They had to trade to become relevant, and still may not even get to conference finals.

Who says I advocated strictly a draft only rebuild? But with a boatload of picks and young players that makes it easier to make trades in the future, and to attact FAs who want to come to a young and upcoming team.

My thread was simply to point out that trading a top 5 player for a player with a horrible contract, that plays no defense, cannot shoot a 3, suffers with bouts of depression and was benched by his team in the playoffs for choking.....is the worst trade this franchise has ever made.

[Capt Bringdown]

Then Frank Brickowski to Milwaukee for an old crippled Paul Pressey.

Ouch. I remember that one. One of Larry Brown's great ideas.

[John B]

Yeah? The Cavs traded Kyrie Irving for Isaiah Thomas, a couple of filler players, and the Nets #8 pick. Then Isaiah Thomas failed his physical, so the Cavs got an extra second round pick.

And that's without going back in time. Dallas got Nowitzki in exchange for Robert Tractor Traylor and some other crap. Barkley to Phoenix? I think Barkley was the MVP the next season, and made the next 4-5 All Star teams.
Atlanta Doncic to Mavs for Trae. The guy will be All-Star for the next 15 years. Future HOF. Bad enough he was selected 3rd overall, when Atlanta got him they traded him. Dumb.

[monty4329]

Atlanta Doncic to Mavs for Trae. The guy will be All-Star for the next 15 years. Future HOF. Bad enough he was selected 3rd overall, when Atlanta got him they traded him. Dumb.

Yes this one might get down as the dumbest pick after Milicic over Melo, Bosh and Wade :spin

(Markell is up there too)

[duncan2150]

that was the best offer..... we are not sure about the clippers offer and the lakers did not offer much

it was way better than let kawhi go next summer

[vavvi]

I still like we haven't deliver Nephew's ass to LA like his uncle requested (same about Pels not trading AD to the Lakers).
I'm not so sure Ingram and Kuzma are "bright future" or even "great trade assets". I don't like them at all.
And we've no idea about Clippers real offers. Harris who's a free agent after the season? That's laughable.
Spurs decided to take chances on a flawed but trying All-Star. So far not working great, he's too bad at D and doesn't shoot 3s. But it was an understandable gamble considering the circumstances.

But I also didn't like that we throwed in Danny instead of Gasol even if we weren't going to resign him anyway.

[TheGoatishere]

Atlanta Doncic to Mavs for Trae. The guy will be All-Star for the next 15 years. Future HOF. Bad enough he was selected 3rd overall, when Atlanta got him they traded him. Dumb.

Trae will be an all star too

[r0drig0lac]

Trae will be an all star too

easily, any difference between them will decrease each year (I bet that the Trae's ceiling will be greater than that of Luka), it will be funny to follow the change of general opinion about this trade over the years

[Maddog]

I don't think it's possible to play worse in the playoffs than he did today. The man shot 5-19 after all :lol

Kawhi screwed us over though. He torpedoed his trade value to the point where the 76ers wouldn't even offer Fultz to us! The only good trade offered was supposedly the Clipper trade but A) nobody actually knows if that was really offered and B) nobody really expected Harris to be this good this year.

Lakers were offering only Ingram and everything you hate about DDR is magnified by 100 with Ingram. For a Duke player he is really dumb. I rather pay DDR $27 million a year than Ingram (and yes I know ppl will say but he's young and has potential) but the difference is that he is like Lonnie now. Too dumb to play and needs years of coaching and development which we can't offer him before his contract year arrives. He needs to be rebuilt completely.

tbh if Kawhi would've actually played when healthy or not said LA or nothing then we would've gotten back a haul for him instead of Demar bleeping DeRozan


Ingram was off the table.

Over the last month the trade is looking even worse than up front. I think that is due to DDR recent play. I'm not sure- but think something is wrong at least physically with him.

The whole problem with critiquing the trade is we really don't know what was on offer. What I can gleam- is what tbdog and Kobe' achilles has said is there wasn't hardly anything on the table. How much would you offer for a guy sitting out the season with an injury no one can explain (and some legitimate concern that he has a degenerative condition). who says he will only go to LA. In hindsight the Clippers trade sounds better. There have been some credible reporting that they did offer Harris and picks 12 and 13. Although I caution this is far from confirmed.
If this offer really was true- let's look at it- Picks 12 and 13 sound great- but look at picks 10 through 15 for the past 10 years. Yes, there are some great players there, but a lot of mediocrity and complete misses. Harris- as said above- nobody thought he'd be this good, and is in a contract year....

[Dverde]

Nephew would have torpedo’d the Toronto if we didn’t move quickly. That was the reason for the 2am trade. You really can’t judge the trade until another season and see if DDR and Nephew re-signs. I think Nephew was leaving Toronto after this year, but that Gasol trade might make his uncle reconsider. I could see him signing a two year with a one year player option with Toronto. In two years, LeThanos would be close to retirement and Nephew could replace him there

[RC_Drunkford]

honestly just getting Poeltl and the pick would've probably been better than getting DeRozan included. He hurts the team

[kaji157]

Wow people here must find something interesting to do with their lives. The exaggeratin exaggerated reactions to DeRozan failures are overwhelming.
DeMar is obviously going to fail with a team so lacking of defenders, as he is a bad one and it's clearly exposed.
Once the team find a couple of wing defenders he'll be better.

[jbspurs]

Trade for someone who literally hasn’t been a net negative for a majority of their career. Not getting someone back as good as Kawhi wasn’t the issue, getting someone who makes every lineup worse is.


Who would you trade him for, if you were the GM?

[GusT15]

You don't need a 29 year old all star like DeRozan to make that trade work.

PATFO should have pushed for Siakam+Valanciunas+picks for Kawhi+Gasol.

If Ujiri was so hell bent on getting rid of Demar it would be on him to find a 3d team to make it work.

And hindsight is 20/20 obviously like always,but,yes,somewhere between a front office exhausted from a prolonged period of trade rumors and the given rule of "we're not tanking in Pop's last couple of years" we entrapped ourselves in a difficult situation.And we made a trade that is looking more and more of a failure game after game.

[exstatic]

Atlanta Doncic to Mavs for Trae. The guy will be All-Star for the next 15 years. Future HOF. Bad enough he was selected 3rd overall, when Atlanta got him they traded him. Dumb.

Nah, Traylor for Dirk was far worse. I doubt that Trae eats his way out of the league after only 7 seasons, nor will he be a bit player like Traylor was. Trae's rookie year 16.9p/7.6asst is far better than any season of Traylor's career.

[DJR210]

It's like DeMar came out angry/hurt with something to prove for the first week of the season, slowly let off the gas, then lost all motivation after beating Toronto here in SA..

As far as the trade itself.. yes, very lopsided, but what the fuck could we really do with they way the retard fucked us over? Ujiri basically saved his job and 100% of the credit should go to Kawhi for being a bitch tbh

[phxspurfan]

Lot of awesome armchair GMs in here :lol

[SpursforSix]

It's like DeMar came out angry/hurt with something to prove for the first week of the season, slowly let off the gas, then lost all motivation after beating Toronto here in SA..

As far as the trade itself.. yes, very lopsided, but what the fuck could we really do with they way the retard fucked us over? Ujiri basically saved his job and 100% of the credit should go to Kawhi for being a bitch tbh

That's the nuts and bolts of it. Leonard put the Spurs in a terrible position. The trade can't really be evaluated by the regular standard.

[Joseph Kony]

Wow people here must find something interesting to do with their lives. The exaggeratin exaggerated reactions to DeRozan failures are overwhelming.
DeMar is obviously going to fail with a team so lacking of defenders, as he is a bad one and it's clearly exposed.
Once the team find a couple of wing defenders he'll be better.
Lmao, Toronto had a whole assortment of good defenders and he still sucked. Try again

[Russ]

What an absolute disaster of a season.

Check out the Lakers, man. :lol

[8FOR!3]

It's year 1, the guy isn't even 30 yet. We all thought Aldridge was washed up (he's a few years older and I'm sure at this point is slowly on the downside of his trajectory.) My point is, give the guy a chance to learn the system and actually put some 3&D guys around him. He didn't suck in Toronto and if it wasn't for LeBron he would have had a legit shot at going deep in the playoffs last year. Toronto didn't trade him bc he sucks they traded him bc they thought if they took one step up it might be a big enough step to win a championship. We know DeRozan isn't a top 5 player in the league, it doesn't mean he's not an asset.

We see how much he's helped the team leading up to the Toronto game and how good he can be when he's on his game. Obviously something is off. Idk if he's not motivated, I don't know if he's injured, it might even be something he goes through on a yearly basis but it's lazy just to say all of a sudden he just sucks.

[Russ]

1095152494865469440



Why would the Spurs thrown in Danny Green?

Maybe because they're rebuilding for the future?

And Danny Green has nothing to do with their plans going forward?

Good lord, people . . .

[DAF86]

Why would the Spurs thrown in Danny Green?

Maybe because they're rebuilding for the future?

And Danny Green has nothing to do with their plans going forward?

Good lord, people . . .

Getting a 30 year old player that is due 85 millions for the next three seasons isn't rebuilding for the future.

If they really wanted to rebuild, trading away Mills or Gasol's contract would have made more sense than trading Green's expiring one.

[Drom John]

Remember, Doncic was traded for Trae Young and Dallas' 2019 first rounder (top 5 protected), currently #11, and Five-Thirty-Eight projects the pick to drop to #10.

[slick'81]

honestly just getting Poeltl and the pick would've probably been better than getting DeRozan included. He hurts the team

Not the way poodles playing hell no

[Russ]

Getting a 30 year old player that is due 85 millions for the next three seasons isn't rebuilding for the future.

If they really wanted to rebuild, trading away Mills or Gasol's contract would have made more sense than trading Green's expiring one.

You are ignoring the role player/scorer (even flawed scorer) distinction.

You need scorers (even old and overpaid) to get you through the transition.

Role players, no matter what age, have to go.

Derozan has his weaknesses, but people forget that he can get you through a drought when the "beautiful game" isn't working and you need a ballhog who can stop the bleeding and do the dirty work to keep the game going (even if he's terribly inefficient).

Derozan has value at this stage of the Spurs program despite his shortcomings.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Why would the Spurs thrown in Danny Green?

Maybe because they're rebuilding for the future?

And Danny Green has nothing to do with their plans going forward?

Good lord, people . . .


I think the point, Russ, is that they could have gotten more out of Danny separately. He was literally salary ballast in that deal. You can argue that the Raps wouldn't accept anything else the Spurs could offer, but we know that there was at least one other offer for Kawhi. If a team is really rebuilding for the future, they are looking to get value for value. What Toronto was acquiring was Kawhi - he was the brass ring in the deal. Tossing in Danny was unnecessary, IMO. Danny is a bargain at $10M by today's contract standards, plus he's expiring at the end of this season.

DDR + Fred VanVleet would have matched Kawhi+Mills just about perfectly. The Spurs could have cleared one of their albatross contracts, and it's not too big of a price to pay to get a legit Top 3 player. That's just off the top of my head.

[DAF86]

You are ignoring the role player/scorer (even flawed scorer) distinction.

You need scorers (even old and overpaid) to get you through the transition.

Role players, no matter what age, have to go.

Derozan has his weaknesses, but people forget that he can get you through a drought when the "beautiful game" isn't working and you need a ballhog who can stop the bleeding and do the dirty work to keep the game going (even if he's terribly inefficient).

Derozan has value at this stage of the Spurs program despite his shortcomings.

So, do they need scorers or are they rebuilding?

[Russ]

So, do they need scorers or are they rebuilding?

Both.

Scorers won't be a part of your future but you need them now as a bridge to the future.

As MLK said, "I may not get there with you, but we will make it to the promised land." (MLK was a big Derozan fan.)

:flag:

[ZeusWillJudge]

You are ignoring the role player/scorer (even flawed scorer) distinction.

You need scorers (even old and overpaid) to get you through the transition.

Role players, no matter what age, have to go.

Derozan has his weaknesses, but people forget that he can get you through a drought when the "beautiful game" isn't working and you need a ballhog who can stop the bleeding and do the dirty work to keep the game going (even if he's terribly inefficient).

Derozan has value at this stage of the Spurs program despite his shortcomings.


And sadly, Russ, most of that is true when you're desperately clinging to the idea that you can squeak into the playoffs, and from there "anything can happen".

The other thing that should be getting painfully clear by now is that you need scorers...but you also need to stop opposing scorers every once in a while. If the Spurs are going to hand DDR the rock to essentially run the offense, then pull Forbes off the floor and pair DDR with Danny. Then they could hide DeRozan at least a little bit on D.

I still think throwing Danny in as salary ballast was a mistake.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Both.

Scorers won't be a part of your future but you need them now as a bridge to the future.

As MLK said, "I may not get there with you, but we will make it to the promised land." (MLK was a big Derozan fan.)


No, they aren't rebuilding. They are attempting another "rebuild on the fly", and they don't have the anchor(s) to do that anymore. They aren't committed to a rebuild, and they can't compete the way they are. It's absolutely the worst of both worlds. That's just fact.

[Ibleedslvrnblk]

Wow people here must find something interesting to do with their lives. The exaggeratin exaggerated reactions to DeRozan failures are overwhelming.
DeMar is obviously going to fail with a team so lacking of defenders, as he is a bad one and it's clearly exposed.
Once the team find a couple of wing defenders he'll be better.

He cannot beat a defender, but if he does cannot finish, shoot or run the o....

[Russ]

I still think throwing Danny in as salary ballast was a mistake.

It's a close call but Danny had to go. Whether in this trade or a better one is debatable.

Mills is keepable because he's more of a scorer than Danny (you're not as worried about defense during this phase).

[Russ]

No, they aren't rebuilding. They are attempting another "rebuild on the fly", and they don't have the anchor(s) to do that anymore. They aren't committed to a rebuild, and they can't compete the way they are. It's absolutely the worst of both worlds. That's just fact.

Time will tell. :)

[DAF86]

Both.

Scorers won't be a part of your future but you need them now as a bridge to the future.

As MLK said, "I may not get there with you, but we will make it to the promised land." (MLK was a big Derozan fan.)

:flag:

In what way does keeping guys like Mills or Gasol and getting DeRozan helps to bridge for the future? It seems to me like you are doing a whole lot of spinning son. :lol

[Arcadian]

It was the best we could do, though. Nothing better was available.

Fuck Kawhitter.

[UnWantedTheory]

If no trades were good, then make no trade at all.
Why lose him for nothing when you can get some assets? A 1st and Jakob are better than getting nothing.

[UnWantedTheory]

You don't need a 29 year old all star like DeRozan to make that trade work.

PATFO should have pushed for Siakam+Valanciunas+picks for Kawhi+Gasol.

If Ujiri was so hell bent on getting rid of Demar it would be on him to find a 3d team to make it work.

And hindsight is 20/20 obviously like always,but,yes,somewhere between a front office exhausted from a prolonged period of trade rumors and the given rule of "we're not tanking in Pop's last couple of years" we entrapped ourselves in a difficult situation.And we made a trade that is looking more and more of a failure game after game.
You have no insight so why bother with hindsight? You have zero idea of what was on the table or not. Trading Kawhi was always going to be a lopsided trade. People are really being absurd about this. It wasn't the greatest haul, but it wasn't the worst trade in the last decade either. When DDR plays to his potential the team can be elevated, however he lost his marbles, balls, or both, and now this is where we are. He currently sucks, and it is what it is, but frustration with mediocrity shouldn't lead us to being unreasonable.

[spurraider21]

What the fuck were they supposed to do? Seriously. No trades were good. The whole fucking thing sucked and Kawhi did everything in his power to reduce his trade value.
tobias harris and 2 firsts

[DAF86]

Why lose him for nothing when you can get some assets? A 1st and Jakob are better than getting nothing.

You start the season with him, get him on the court to up his trade value and then you trade him.

[DAF86]

It was the best we could do, though. Nothing better was available.

Fuck Kawhitter.

Literally, all the other options rumoured were better. Covington, Saric and I don't know how many picks was better. Harris and two lottery picks was also better.

[Xx_SpursNation_xX]

They should have kept kawhitter but i guess pop didn't want to deal with it anymore.

[Twisted_Dawg]

tobias harris and 2 firsts

Then flip Harris to Philly last week for players and picks.
Now that would be a ballsy move.

[GusT15]

You have no insight so why bother with hindsight? You have zero idea of what was on the table or not. Trading Kawhi was always going to be a lopsided trade. People are really being absurd about this. It wasn't the greatest haul, but it wasn't the worst trade in the last decade either. When DDR plays to his potential the team can be elevated, however he lost his marbles, balls, or both, and now this is where we are. He currently sucks, and it is what it is, but frustration with mediocrity shouldn't lead us to being unreasonable.

First of all i'm only criticizing the "value" of the trade,as that's what this thread is about and not DDR's struggles.

Toronto was not the only team interested in Leonard,we know that much.We know Tobias was on the table,along with picks,we know the Lakers trash+picks were on the table but fuck the Lakers,we know Phily's RoCo+Saric+picks was on the table.That's as far as insight goes.

Now let me ask you this.Let's say that during the past summer Pop decides that he has no interest to coach anymore,after a turbulent season and the loss of his wife,he will retire from Spurs and just coach team USA in 2020.Do you still do the DeRozan trade? Do you? I know i'm sure as hell not doing it.

That's what i meant by entrapping ourselves,Leonard made this trade impossible to deal with from the start,and then the Spurs short term plans made it even harder to get even remotely better value!
So,yes,PATFO made a pretty shortsighted trade,basically gambled on DeRozan.It's not the worse trade of the decade but it's still a bad,not well thought trade.

[Arcadian]

Literally, all the other options rumoured were better. Covington, Saric and I don't know how many picks was better. Harris and two lottery picks was also better.
The key there is "rumored." Maybe those weren't actual possibilities.

[duncan2k5]

Nephew would have torpedo’d the Toronto if we didn’t move quickly. That was the reason for the 2am trade. You really can’t judge the trade until another season and see if DDR and Nephew re-signs. I think Nephew was leaving Toronto after this year, but that Gasol trade might make his uncle reconsider. I could see him signing a two year with a one year player option with Toronto. In two years, LeThanos would be close to retirement and Nephew could replace him there

It's up to the raptors fans to decide if it was a win... And if u ask them, they're fucking elated they don't have to have DDR on the team, even if Kawhi leaves... They'd rather have a shot at the finals and Kawhi leave, than to have DDR on the team... It's 100% a win for them because their fans consider it a win either way... Addition by subtraction

[blah28]

Kawhi's camp kept stating that he wanted to be traded to the Lakers which handicapped the offer the Spurs were receiving. No team was going to offer anything incredible based on his comments before being traded. Toronto took a risk and we will see if he re-signs or not.

Let's say the Spurs kept him, what prevents Kawhi, saying he is still injured and sitting out most of the year? He wouldn't even meet with the Spurs staff in New York, what would be the point of keeping him and paying him?

The trade is done, I love the what if's. It doesn't matter Golden State is going to win again and Kawhi is most likely going to Los Angeles this offseason.

[duncan2k5]

Kawhi's camp kept stating that he wanted to be traded to the Lakers which handicapped the offer the Spurs were receiving. No team was going to offer anything incredible based on his comments before being traded. Toronto took a risk and we will see if he re-signs or not.

Let's say the Spurs kept him, what prevents Kawhi, saying he is still injured and sitting out most of the year? He wouldn't even meet with the Spurs staff in New York, what would be the point of keeping him and paying him?

The trade is done, I love the what if's. It doesn't matter Golden State is going to win again and Kawhi is most likely going to Los Angeles this offseason.

Not Lakers... LA... The clippers offer was better than DDR

[Collins21]

I'm sorry but this team would have 20 wins max with a Saric/ Covington package. Covington has been hurt most of the season and Saric has regressed but for some reason this site has an obsession with Euro trash players.

[Uriel]

As I have been saying from the start, we should've kept Kawhi, won 60 games, made the WCF, and then offered him the supermax in the summer. There's no way he would've walked away from that.

[duncan2k5]

I'm not going to sell the guy out after one-half of a bad season...but it's seriously becoming concerning. Like...WTF concerning.

He just looks like shit out there. Bad shots, bad body language, can't score, isn't moving the ball properly anymore...It's like he wilted when the team actually started improving around him.

It's almost like he checked out after that trip-dub against his former team.
One season?? Lmfao... U clearly aren't familiar with him

[Amuseddaysleeper]

As I have been saying from the start, we should've kept Kawhi, won 60 games, made the WCF, and then offered him the supermax in the summer. There's no way he would've walked away from that.

Agreed. I feel like the issue was the Spurs didn’t trust Kawhi’s knee so they balked at offering the supermax. Kawhi said fuck you and took his talents elsewhere.

Kawhi is worth the supermax, DeRozan isn’t even worth half his contract.

[Dex]

One season?? Lmfao... U clearly aren't familiar with him

Quit acting like you are. You don't even watch the Spurs games, so I know you sure as shit weren't keeping tabs on DeMar during his Toronto years.

[duncan2k5]

I'm sorry but this team would have 20 wins max with a Saric/ Covington package. Covington has been hurt most of the season and Saric has regressed but for some reason this site has an obsession with Euro trash players.

Ppl said the same about Indiana when they traded PG

[Collins21]

Victor Oladipo was healthy that season as well Covington doesn't play.

[jjktkk]

Agreed. I feel like the issue was the Spurs didn’t trust Kawhi’s knee so they balked at offering the supermax. Kawhi said fuck you and took his talents elsewhere.

Kawhi is worth the supermax, DeRozan isn’t even worth half his contract.Kawhi supposedly has a degenerative knee/quad condition yet, you wanted to PATFO still offer the supermax. You bitch and moan on here constantly, as it is, imagine finding out Leonard has a unfixable knee. You'd shit a brick.:lol

[UnWantedTheory]

You start the season with him, get him on the court to up his trade value and then you trade him.I imagine him being a one year rental with a specific destination in mind afterward had more to do with the situation than injury history. You could be right though.

[UnWantedTheory]

Literally, all the other options rumoured were better. Covington, Saric and I don't know how many picks was better. Harris and two lottery picks was also better.

[UnWantedTheory]

It's up to the raptors fans to decide if it was a win... And if u ask them, they're fucking elated they don't have to have DDR on the team, even if Kawhi leaves... They'd rather have a shot at the finals and Kawhi leave, than to have DDR on the team... It's 100% a win for them because their fans consider it a win either way... Addition by subtraction
The fans loved DDR, they just know Kawhi gives their historically mediocre team a chance to ring this year. That is a bit different than what you are saying. You don't have to be such a cunt just to say Kawhi is a better player, as we all know he is.

[UnWantedTheory]

First of all i'm only criticizing the "value" of the trade,as that's what this thread is about and not DDR's struggles.

Toronto was not the only team interested in Leonard,we know that much.We know Tobias was on the table,along with picks,we know the Lakers trash+picks were on the table but fuck the Lakers,we know Phily's RoCo+Saric+picks was on the table.That's as far as insight goes.

Now let me ask you this.Let's say that during the past summer Pop decides that he has no interest to coach anymore,after a turbulent season and the loss of his wife,he will retire from Spurs and just coach team USA in 2020.Do you still do the DeRozan trade? Do you? I know i'm sure as hell not doing it.

That's what i meant by entrapping ourselves,Leonard made this trade impossible to deal with from the start,and then the Spurs short term plans made it even harder to get even remotely better value!
So,yes,PATFO made a pretty shortsighted trade,basically gambled on DeRozan.It's not the worse trade of the decade but it's still a bad,not well thought trade.We don't know how accurate all of that is, nor how serious negotiations went. There could have been more at play then Kawhi for XYZ. You also don't know their motivations. It is all speculation, despite most of you speaking in absolutes.

[bic50]

Kawhi supposedly has a degenerative knee/quad condition yet, you wanted to PATFO still offer the supermax. You bitch and moan on here constantly, as it is, imagine finding out Leonard has a unfixable knee. You'd shit a brick.:lol
Kawhi was/is one of the top players in the league.

[spursistan]

Imagine the banter on this site if Kawhi somehow reups for the Raptors :lol.

I mean the fact they have giddily thrown Green in this one to leave themselves defenseless at perhaps the most important position in today's league earns them no better than a D- grade as it is.

Boiled down to: The Spurs are going to be worse off this season having gotten a return for Kawhi then when they were when he was still on the team and hiding in NY..

Revolting stuff..

[YGWHI]

Kawhi supposedly has a degenerative knee/quad condition yet, you wanted to PATFO still offer the supermax. You bitch and moan on here constantly, as it is, imagine finding out Leonard has a unfixable knee. You'd shit a brick.:lol

I would take Kawhi's on one leg over DeRozan all day. GMs, too. That's the reason why Toronto didn't get many offers for him when they were desperate to dump his salary.

A bad playoffs' performer with depression disorder on a super-expensive contract? Give me bad quad/knee Kawhi!!

You won't admit it but you already know if Kawhi could have played just two-three years of a super-max contract with the Spurs...still would have been worth it.

1100508303354810368
Not the best Kawhilights -they forgot their two steals on Durant, his dunk vs Pacers in the final minutes which was 2nd best dunk of the season, his 3's in OT vs Wizards...but stil fine.

He's still clutch.
1099317773052846080

On one leg he's still the best finisher in the league
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0L3eUxUUAE6wQ-.png:large
https://theathletic.com/830752/2019/02/22/license-to-drive-best-and-worst-rim-attackers-in-the-nba-this-season/

[jackyboi99]

DeMar DeRozan and LaMarcus Aldridge combined shot more mid-range shots than six teams did as a whole per game last year.


spurs offense based on demar and lamarcus flinging up endless midrange jumpers is alt-right basketball

[cpds421]

You’re just a nephew fan boy YGWHI.

Nephew has become a soft player lately that he needs at least a week of rest. Glad he was traded to the Raptors and not LA

[UncleDennis]

Would Kawhi have played at all this year if they just never made any move at all? That's the problem, other guys in similar positions at least showed up to work. This guy was hiding in NY, well allegedly he was depending on who you believe. Although of course in retrospect with seeing how bad the team is anyways and how close to a full tank/rebuild they are, if you know that Kawhi would have suited up and been professional about it I guess you just ride it out till judgement day and either way he leaves regardless and at that point it's full fire sale trade and bye bye Pop as well for that matter. But they really thought they could make this pairing work and stay competitive.

I think no matter what deal they made, whether it be something with Tobias Harris, and especially with Covington and Saric that the Spurs were screwed...Covington and Saric, I don't know what really to say about that offer except that it really shows how badly Kawhi tanked his value, those guys might have a few good qualities but I could only see the team being even worse with them. Maybe Tobias Harris would have been a better fit then Demar because he can at least shoot the three but again do we lose Danny in that trade as well? So many variables and really they always lead to losing a top 3 player for crumbs.

[AaronY]

Should have held out for Pascal siakhim

[slick'81]

Tobias harris went for two #1's?! Damn right we got screwed

[TimDunkem]

Tobias harris went for two #1's?! Damn right we got screwed

Could've jumpstarted the rebuilding process but they doubled down on fadeaway 2s, midgets, and old scrubs. Sad.

[gambit1990]

it still hurts.

[gambit1990]

not only was this an awful trade but the spurs chose the wrong time to make a move too...

they should’ve agreed to trade him if it suited up for some games this season. and if he said no? the spurs could’ve still traded him anyways.

[gambit1990]

kawhi should’ve been moved for picks before the draft or during this season.

[phxspurfan]

lol the armchair generals/monday morning QB thread


"we should have also bought powerball tickets with the winning #s last year too"

[gambit1990]

i said it was poor timing when the spurs made the trade tbh.

[cd98]

Spurs had no leverage. They got the best they could under the circumstances. If you want to be mad at the Spurs for how they handled Kawhi pre-2017, then by all means, criticize. But once Kawhi demanded a trade to L.A. only, all the Spurs lost all leverage in trade talks. They tried to get some good players, but the Bostons and the 76ers of the world would not budge. I imagine they took the best deal they could. Draft picks that aren't in the lottery mean very little.

[dbreiden83080]

That's what happens when the player tanks an entire season because his Vagina was itchy..

[sasaint]

not only was this an awful trade but the spurs chose the wrong time to make a move too...

they should’ve agreed to trade him if it suited up for some games this season. and if he said no? the spurs could’ve still traded him anyways.

Yep. The timing was strange. Why in such a rush?

[BackHome]

Cause Pop was getting pressure and the media was starting to turn on him and he couldn’t deal with that.

[sasaint]

Cause Pop was getting pressure and the media was starting to turn on him and he couldn’t deal with that.

Nah. Since when has Pop felt pressure from the media? I would love to see that role reversal!

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

"No one ever predicts the wrong score on a game played yesterday."

~ Ed Chopper Jones

[sasaint]

"No one ever predicts the wrong score on a game played yesterday."

~ Ed Chopper Jones

Better than Yogi! :tu

[spursistan]

Imagine the banter on this site if Kawhi somehow reups for the Raptors :lol.

I mean the fact they have giddily thrown Green in this one to leave themselves defenseless at perhaps the most important position in today's league earns them no better than a D- grade as it is.

Boiled down to: The Spurs are going to be worse off this season having gotten a return for Kawhi then when they were when he was still on the team and hiding in NY..

Revolting stuff..

[DeRozan m8]

I would take Kawhi's on one leg over DeRozan all day. GMs, too. That's the reason why Toronto didn't get many offers for him when they were desperate to dump his salary.

A bad playoffs' performer with depression disorder on a super-expensive contract? Give me bad quad/knee Kawhi!!

You won't admit it but you already know if Kawhi could have played just two-three years of a super-max contract with the Spurs...still would have been worth it.

1100508303354810368
Not the best Kawhilights -they forgot their two steals on Durant, his dunk vs Pacers in the final minutes which was 2nd best dunk of the season, his 3's in OT vs Wizards...but stil fine.

He's still clutch.
1099317773052846080

On one leg he's still the best finisher in the league
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D0L3eUxUUAE6wQ-.png:large
https://theathletic.com/830752/2019/02/22/license-to-drive-best-and-worst-rim-attackers-in-the-nba-this-season/

Kawhi wasn't signing a super max with us, what the fuck are you talking about?

[TDMVPDPOY]

they fkc up by letting go anderson b4 pulling the kawhi trade...

had they know they dont have any perimeter defenders after the kawhi trade, they wouldve probably match anderson

[RC_Drunkford]

they fkc up by letting go anderson b4 pulling the kawhi trade...

had they know they dont have any perimeter defenders after the kawhi trade, they wouldve probably match anderson

Good lord I'm glad they didn't match Anderson's 40million for 4 years offer that Memphis signed him for. That scrub ain't worth half the money

[urunobili]

Anunoby and Siakam with whatever picks would have been a deal TBH

[RC_Drunkford]

Anunoby and Siakam with whatever picks would have been a deal TBH

I deal that wouldn't have worked salary wise

[GusT15]

I deal that wouldn't have worked salary wise

Just saw Valanciunas destroy Gobert and the Jazz so help me with the math here.

Leonard/Gasol for Valanciunas/Siakam/CJ Miles/D.Wright

You get a starting worthy big man in Val for big man line ups,a promising 3/4 in Siakam (he's gonna be MIP this year but was still a prospect in the summer) for small ball,expiring D.Wright in the guard rotation and eat up Miles +1 year to offload Gasol.

Does it work salary wise and do you do it? Are we better/worse? Do the Raptors do it?

[YGWHI]

Just saw Valanciunas destroy Gobert and the Jazz so help me with the math here.

Leonard/Gasol for Valanciunas/Siakam/CJ Miles/D.Wright

You get a starting worthy big man in Val for big man line ups,a promising 3/4 in Siakam (he's gonna be MIP this year but was still a prospect in the summer) for small ball,expiring D.Wright in the guard rotation and eat up Miles +1 year to offload Gasol.

Does it work salary wise and do you do it? Are we better/worse? Do the Raptors do it?

Raptors wanted to dump DeRozan salary. Losing half of their team and keeping DD wasn't an option for them.

[YGWHI]

Kawhi wasn't signing a super max with us, what the fuck are you talking about?
Sadly we will never know it. Since the Spurs didn't offer him the supermax last summer.

[GusT15]

Raptors wanted to dump DeRozan salary. Losing half of their team and keeping DD wasn't an option for them.

Friend i'm a Spurs fan,i don't give a fuck what the Raptors wanted to do behind the scenes.

First of all,even if they did actually want to trade DDR they obviously never said it out in the open cause the city loved DeRozan.

Second of all,in the negotiations when you are receiving the best by far player in the trade you only have some room to play hard ball.Trade request or not,injury or not #2 was BY FAR the best player in the trade.

Third if that Masai POS is really out to fleece you (and that's what he actually did) all it takes is one little phone call to a Woj or a Shams that said trade is imminent.

The fans,the owners,the entire NBA hears that next year the Raptors will have 3 All stars in Lowry,DeRozan AND Leonard.Masai is pretty much fucked when that happens.

And last but not least,what on earth do you mean half of their team? The only player that Masai was hell bent on keeping was Siakam (and rightfully so).That's where you hit em,where it hurts.DeRozan? Poeltl?
Hell,they have already traded Valanciunas,Miles and Wright for a washed 35 year old Gasol one month ago.

[UnWantedTheory]

Friend i'm a Spurs fan,i don't give a fuck what the Raptors wanted to do behind the scenes.

First of all,even if they did actually want to trade DDR they obviously never said it out in the open cause the city loved DeRozan.

Second of all,in the negotiations when you are receiving the best by far player in the trade you only have some room to play hard ball.Trade request or not,injury or not #2 was BY FAR the best player in the trade.

Third if that Masai POS is really out to fleece you (and that's what he actually did) all it takes is one little phone call to a Woj or a Shams that said trade is imminent.

The fans,the owners,the entire NBA hears that next year the Raptors will have 3 All stars in Lowry,DeRozan AND Leonard.Masai is pretty much fucked when that happens.

And last but not least,what on earth do you mean half of their team? The only player that Masai was hell bent on keeping was Siakam (and rightfully so).That's where you hit em,where it hurts.DeRozan? Poeltl?
Hell,they have already traded Valanciunas,Miles and Wright for a washed 35 year old Gasol one month ago.
Toronto cared so you didn't have to. It isn't very difficult to figure out that the Spurs didn't have shit tons of leverage seeing as Kawhi likely won't resign with TOR.

[GusT15]

Toronto cared so you didn't have to. It isn't very difficult to figure out that the Spurs didn't have shit tons of leverage seeing as Kawhi likely won't resign with TOR.

That's all i see as responses "Toronto wanted DeMar off","Toronto cared".Like you guys were part of the negotiations and you have some special insight.

No word whatsoever on the trade i asked if it would work salary wise.No word on if you would do it (as Spurs fans,cause apparently for some strange reason two first responses were as if i was at a Toronto board),no basketball take on if the Spurs would be better one way or the other.

[RC_Drunkford]

Just saw Valanciunas destroy Gobert and the Jazz so help me with the math here.

Leonard/Gasol for Valanciunas/Siakam/CJ Miles/D.Wright

You get a starting worthy big man in Val for big man line ups,a promising 3/4 in Siakam (he's gonna be MIP this year but was still a prospect in the summer) for small ball,expiring D.Wright in the guard rotation and eat up Miles +1 year to offload Gasol.

Does it work salary wise and do you do it? Are we better/worse? Do the Raptors do it?

It doesn't work. That's 29 million coming from Toronto for 39 million going out. I would've done that deal ASAP but it's not possible to pull of. Raptors would have to send another 10 million to the Spurs

[GusT15]

It doesn't work. That's 29 million coming from Toronto for 39 million going out. I would've done that deal ASAP but it's not possible to pull of. Raptors would have to send another 10 million to the Spurs

Thanks very much.So it needed more tweaking.But it was still doable.

I don't even have that big of a problem with DeRozan,we all knew what he brought to the table.My issue was that they didn't use Nephew's trade as an opportunity to help with the construction of the roster.Seeing so many players that Spurs could've used,already out of Toronto and into the lottery bound Grizzlies..while our roster has gaping holes in so many departments..not a good look.

[UnWantedTheory]

That's all i see as responses "Toronto wanted DeMar off","Toronto cared".Like you guys were part of the negotiations and you have some special insight.

No word whatsoever on the trade i asked if it would work salary wise.No word on if you would do it (as Spurs fans,cause apparently for some strange reason two first responses were as if i was at a Toronto board),no basketball take on if the Spurs would be better one way or the other. You were just told it wouldn't work and you still say it could have been tweaked to make it doable. You are acting like you have some hidden knowledge while the rest of us are using common sense. What don't you get about Kawhi could just be a one year rental and therefore a huge gamble for Toronto? That eliminated leverage for the Spurs. It isn't very difficult to understand.

[pgardn]

OP
Trade?

That was a trade?

[GusT15]

You were just told it wouldn't work and you still say it could have been tweaked to make it doable. You are acting like you have some hidden knowledge while the rest of us are using common sense. What don't you get about Kawhi could just be a one year rental and therefore a huge gamble for Toronto? That eliminated leverage for the Spurs. It isn't very difficult to understand.

I was told it wouldn't work cause of 10 mills diff in cap money going out to cap money coming in.That's cause i wanted to unload Gasol's awful contract along with Leonard.

Why are you trying so hard to push the false narrative of "You take back DeRozan or NO TRADE"?
Were you present in the phone conversation?
Did it go somewhat like:
-"Hey RC"
-"Hey Masai"
-"I want Leonard but you have to take back DeRozan.If you say no to DeRozan there is nothing to talk about"
-"But there are some other players in your roster we could work with..."
-"I said you either take DeRozan or i'll hang up on your ass you intoxicated buffoon"

Is that what happened? And we made that trade? Nah,i don't really see your point of view,and it comes from a very "strange" way to try to make excuses on behalf of PATFO for a terrible trade.

What don't you get about you can't get fleeced unless you bend over?

Are we not allowed to think of hypothetical trade scenarios with the same team we traded with as Spurfans? Why? Cause the Spurs would be so much better and the fuck up of the FO would be so more easy for everyone to see?

[8FOR!3]

I don't think Toronto wanted to get rid of DDR's contract as much as they saw an opportunity to raise the team's ceiling by trading for Kawhi.

[GusT15]

I don't think Toronto wanted to get rid of DDR's contract as much as they saw an opportunity to raise the team's ceiling by trading for Kawhi.

Right? Ujiri was saying to DeRozan "i'm not trading you" before Leonard became an option for them.That's on record.Ujiri said "I loved DeRozan but i had to get Leonard".That's on record as well.

Spurs could have had a solid bigman and a promising player for Leonard.Siakam or OG,whoever would make the money work.

This looks more like Spurs wanting a certified all star no matter what traits said player had and no matter what needs the current roster had.

[spurs10]

I imagine if they thought #2 ("in more ways than 1") was going to give his all they would have kept him for his final year. I think PATFO realized that another nightmare season was too much. I'm enjoying this season much more than last year, which was an unbearable drag. DDR and Poeltl and the pick for #2 and DG was likely the best they could do. People say Harris, but he's going to be a FA. If #2 bolts Toronto our trade might look a bit better. They can trade DDR and Poeltl if they want.

[da_suns_fan]

Well the Suns traded Kurt Thomas and two first round picks for a second round pick.

So theres that...

[da_suns_fan]

The Phoenix Suns today traded center Kurt Thomas and two future first-round draft picks to the Seattle SuperSonics for a future conditional second-round pick.

https://www.nba.com/suns/news/thomas_trade_070720.html#

[Twisted_Dawg]

Kurt Thomas, I forgot about us trading for this turd.

http://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=3255661

[ambchang]

Smart thing for ujiri to do as he already knew the derozan Lowry combo has reached its max potential. Both of them, especially derozan, were way too popular to be salary dumped, so he took the opportunity to get Kawhi.

If Kawhi stays, he wins the deal easily. If Kawhi bolts, he can legitimately say he traded for an mvp talent and the onus is on Kawhi for leaving a very successful team to chase his uncles dreams. He can then dump Lowry because there’s no room for him anymore and just rebuild.

All win and no risk deal.

[UnWantedTheory]

I was told it wouldn't work cause of 10 mills diff in cap money going out to cap money coming in.That's cause i wanted to unload Gasol's awful contract along with Leonard.

Why are you trying so hard to push the false narrative of "You take back DeRozan or NO TRADE"?
Were you present in the phone conversation?
Did it go somewhat like:
-"Hey RC"
-"Hey Masai"
-"I want Leonard but you have to take back DeRozan.If you say no to DeRozan there is nothing to talk about"
-"But there are some other players in your roster we could work with..."
-"I said you either take DeRozan or i'll hang up on your ass you intoxicated buffoon"

Is that what happened? And we made that trade? Nah,i don't really see your point of view,and it comes from a very "strange" way to try to make excuses on behalf of PATFO for a terrible trade.

What don't you get about you can't get fleeced unless you bend over?

Are we not allowed to think of hypothetical trade scenarios with the same team we traded with as Spurfans? Why? Cause the Spurs would be so much better and the fuck up of the FO would be so more easy for everyone to see?
Are you fucking retarded? I never once pushed anything, and your proposal would not have made sense for Toronto. They were taking a gamble on Kawhi not resigning so why give up their future for him? They weren't going anywhere with DDR so it wasn't much of a gamble for them that way. Also, you wanted to unload Gasol, but has your dumb ass thought they didn't want him? Assuming that was the case, DDR's contract was necessary. Were you on the phone? Were you there? Blah, blah, blah. What don't you get about us not having leverage? Btw, I don't care if you come up with hypothetical trades, however it's fucking stupid to do so after a trade has already happened. You are clearly butt hurt and not using a lick of common sense. I am not saying there weren't other possible trades, but I am saying other's with TOR were unlikely to impossible, because two sides need to fucking agree to something. TOR knew the Spurs were negotiating from a weaker position and it is that simple. None of this means they didn't try for a different trade.

[UnWantedTheory]

Smart thing for ujiri to do as he already knew the derozan Lowry combo has reached its max potential. Both of them, especially derozan, were way too popular to be salary dumped, so he took the opportunity to get Kawhi.

If Kawhi stays, he wins the deal easily. If Kawhi bolts, he can legitimately say he traded for an mvp talent and the onus is on Kawhi for leaving a very successful team to chase his uncles dreams. He can then dump Lowry because there’s no room for him anymore and just rebuild.

All win and no risk deal.
Exactly this.

[GusT15]

Are you fucking retarded? I never once pushed anything, and your proposal would not have made sense for Toronto. They were taking a gamble on Kawhi not resigning so why give up their future for him? They weren't going anywhere with DDR so it wasn't much of a gamble for them that way. Also, you wanted to unload Gasol, but has your dumb ass thought they didn't want him? Assuming that was the case, DDR's contract was necessary. Were you on the phone? Were you there? Blah, blah, blah. What don't you get about us not having leverage? Btw, I don't care if you come up with hypothetical trades, however it's fucking stupid to do so after a trade has already happened. You are clearly butt hurt and not using a lick of common sense. I am not saying there weren't other possible trades, but I am saying other's with TOR were unlikely to impossible, because two sides need to fucking agree to something. TOR knew the Spurs were negotiating from a weaker position and it is that simple. None of this means they didn't try for a different trade.

Does the fact that you are out of arguments is making you get to the personal attack level? Just in case you can salvage something from your out of place,out of touch,out of reality logic?

Keep looking at it from Toronto's perspective! Ujiri wanted to do this,Ujiri wanted to do that,he was taking a gamble here,blah,blah,BLAH.

Where is the San Antonio perspective? We wanted DeRozan for Leonard and that's it? Our FO thought that trade as constructed was a good one?

Well if that's what they thought,they are morons.That trade is awful! If i feel like judging the trade half a year later,i can judge it all i like!

If i want to make a hypothesis or two on what we could have actually traded with Toronto for,i can do as many "what if's" i want motherfucker.It doesn't make me butthurt,this is a Basketball forum,"what if's" are half of a forum's conversations most of the time!

You have no fucking idea what you are talking about,you spew bullshit for a day and a half and you in your own mind think you have a point to make.

My point:Spurs could have traded #2 for Valanciunas/Siakam.And keep Danny Green.

Your point:We had no leverage they would fleece us either way.

We basically agree to disagree.But then again,you did come at me without provocation.

So go fuck yourself you Ujiri's ball licking,PATFO's apologist,out of touch with reality,emotional faggot tbh

[UnWantedTheory]

Does the fact that you are out of arguments is making you get to the personal attack level? Just in case you can salvage something from your out of place,out of touch,out of reality logic?

Keep looking at it from Toronto's perspective! Ujiri wanted to do this,Ujiri wanted to do that,he was taking a gamble here,blah,blah,BLAH.

Where is the San Antonio perspective? We wanted DeRozan for Leonard and that's it? Our FO thought that trade as constructed was a good one?

Well if that's what they thought,they are morons.That trade is awful! If i feel like judging the trade half a year later,i can judge it all i like!

If i want to make a hypothesis or two on what we could have actually traded with Toronto for,i can do as many "what if's" i want motherfucker.It doesn't make me butthurt,this is a Basketball forum,"what if's" are half of a forum's conversations most of the time!

You have no fucking idea what you are talking about,you spew bullshit for a day and a half and you in your own mind think you have a point to make.

My point:Spurs could have traded #2 for Valanciunas/Siakam.And keep Danny Green.

Your point:We had no leverage they would fleece us either way.

We basically agree to disagree.But then again,you did come at me without provocation.

So go fuck yourself you Ujiri's ball licking,PATFO's apologist,out of touch with reality,emotional faggot tbh
Look you stupid fuck, your trade was unrealistic. The one perspective you keep harping on is rather important seeing as they had zero reason to do it. Basically, wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which one fills up first retard.

[GusT15]

Look you stupid fuck, your trade was unrealistic. The one perspective you keep harping on is rather important seeing as they had zero reason to do it. Basically, wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which one fills up first retard.

Whatever you say precious.

You felt the need to quote and answer to me with 6mins left on the game when we're beating the #1 seed in the league by 14?

Spurs win,i'm happy,i won't talk about the trade anymore even though it was as retarded as you are.

FOH

[UnWantedTheory]

Whatever you say precious.

You felt the need to quote and answer to me with 6mins left on the game when we're beating the #1 seed in the league by 14?

Spurs win,i'm happy,i won't talk about the trade anymore even though it was as retarded as you are.

FOH
Uh, what the hell does that have to do with anything?

[spursistan]

So poetic that on the night the scumbag goes full Jordan with a career-playoff high 45 points; the dude they traded him for flames out in Game 7 playing like a the soft bricklayer he is..

Never have I ever imagined a scenario where this organization would turn into a "farm team" that trades its franchise player to competitor so he could go ring there..What a stunning fall from grace..

[spursistan]

^^ I'm almost gonna go full masochist and hope Kawhi rings with the Raptors so this Front Office go down as the owner of one the most embarrassing trades in NBA history..

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Buy DeRozan out, one of the biggest chokers in history

LMA is a loser too sadly

[spursistan]

Buy DeRozan out, one of the biggest chokers in history

LMA is a loser too sadly

I'm still puzzled what were they thinking teaming up these two..

[objective]

of the decade?

Maybe modern NBA history

Right there with the Rasheed and Vince trades

[RC_Drunkford]

Kawhi probably saw the writing on the wall. When Pau Gasol and Patty Mills are your 3rd and 4th highest players and your coach loves to play undersized midgets, you might as well just leave to a team that isn't built that way

[ElNono]

You’re always going to get cents on the dollar for forced trades like this, tbh...

I can’t pin the blame on PATFO entirely, you do what you can. The primary culprit is nephew and his fake injury

[WallyTiger]

Kawhi probably saw the writing on the wall. When Pau Gasol and Patty Mills are your 3rd and 4th highest players and your coach loves to play undersized midgets, you might as well just leave to a team that isn't built that way
OK, PATFO is bad, nephew can just go, but why fake injury and ruin spurs reputation?

[DPG21920]

You’re always going to get cents on the dollar for forced trades like this, tbh...

I can’t pin the blame on PATFO entirely, you do what you can. The primary culprit is nephew and his fake injury

True. But the question is did SA get the right pennies. It’s a fair question

[Keepin' it real]

ESPN headline (not kidding):

Next move for the Spurs: New deal for Derozan?

:lol

[lefty]

1122359882802446339

[TheGreatYacht]

True. But the question is did SA get the right pennies. It’s a fair question
Oh now it's a fair question?

You were the main guy defending this trade last summer and bothering those of us that saw the writing on the wall.

"This was a 48 win team without nephew. Adding an all star in DeRozan to this roster will only improve that" ... Your words

[UZER]

You’re always going to get cents on the dollar for forced trades like this, tbh...

I can’t pin the blame on PATFO entirely, you do what you can. The primary culprit is nephew and his fake injury

Why did nephew want out so bad though? So bad that he faked an injury 2 years before his contract expired,

[apalisoc_9]

You’re always going to get cents on the dollar for forced trades like this, tbh...

I can’t pin the blame on PATFO entirely, you do what you can. The primary culprit is nephew and his fake injury


Man I thought you are well connected within the organization? its a pretty well known fact that the relationship soured between Kawhi and Org because someone in the Organization (Not pop) screwed it up. Kawhi was legitimateld injured till around March, but they decided they were done with the org once that particular person did what he did. :lol

[DPG21920]

Oh now it's a fair question?

You were the main guy defending this trade last summer and bothering those of us that saw the writing on the wall.

"This was a 48 win team without nephew. Adding an all star in DeRozan to this roster will only improve that" ... Your words

Still was a move I understood even if I didn’t love it. This statement was after. Now that it’s gone from “what we think” to “what we know”

[Bynumite]

Losing a top 5 player as he's entering his prime. Yikes :lol

[apalisoc_9]

Why did nephew want out so bad though? So bad that he faked an injury 2 years before his contract expired,

He was injured till around late feb. HE could have played though but during the injury someone in the org did said something to Kawhi that kinda made him rethink his situation.

Remeber when they even gave a timetable for return? Because he was about to return...

But he didnt appreciate that one dudes input and he felt extremely disrespected so he just decided to not return and worst ask for a trade.

That persons name might pop out if the raps reach the finals though :lol

[therealtruth]

No need to revisit the trade. Spurs won hands down. Plus Kawhi can still leave this summer for the Clippers or another team.

[apalisoc_9]

Still was a move I understood even if I didn’t love it. This statement was after. Now that it’s gone from “what we think” to “what we know”

C'mon man. thats not a way to own up.

Just own up breh,

[TheGreatYacht]

Losing a top 5 player as he's entering his prime. Yikes :lol
:lol treating him like a retard in HEB commercials
:lol making Mills and Gasol top 4 highest paid players
:lol benching him the final games of the season, costing him an MVP
:lol expecting him to be okay with Pop taking all the credit

[Kori Ellis]

Personally, I had hoped they wouldn't trade Kawhi and just let him "sit out" another year. I would have liked to see that play out. But they traded him for Poeltl and that other guy, so it's time to move on Spurs fans. It is what it is. Let it go.

[TheGreatYacht]

No need to revisit the trade. Spurs won hands down. Plus Kawhi can still leave this summer for the Clippers or another team.
How come you, therealtruth, and that other guy Keepin' it real do nothing but bullshit?

[daslicer]

Personally, I had hoped they wouldn't trade Kawhi and just let him "sit out" another year. I would have liked to see that play out. But they traded him for Poeltl and that other guy, so it's time to move on Spurs fans. It is what it is. Let it go.

That's what I also wanted to do. See how it would unfold with him and his people.

[DavidTheGoliath]

We'll be stuck with Pau at center if not for this trade

[DPG21920]

C'mon man. thats not a way to own up.

Just own up breh,

Own up to what? I’m on record, fun team or not, flawed team or not, that SA would be good with DeRozan. They were. I still think building around them could be good. But there is work to be done.

[ElNono]

True. But the question is did SA get the right pennies. It’s a fair question

I don’t think it’s an unfair question, tbh, but I think it’s also fair to point out they were in a tough spot (for whatever reasons, which I’m not privy to)


Why did nephew want out so bad though? So bad that he faked an injury 2 years before his contract expired,

I don’t know. He went from winning a championship and finals mvp and I love you pop to that. Does he pulls that shit if they didn’t ring and he doesn’t become some sort of promising brand? I just don’t know the answer to that.


Man I thought you are well connected within the organization? its a pretty well known fact that the relationship soured between Kawhi and Org because someone in the Organization (Not pop) screwed it up. Kawhi was legitimateld injured till around March, but they decided they were done with the org once that particular person did what he did. :lol

I heard that from MoSpur, who’s been calling the shots correctly on the whole situation. I don’t know who that is, maybe he has more details.

I’m merely pointing out that once we reached that moment where he refused to play and be with the team and basically demand a trade, the Spurs were never getting even 50c on the dollar. The only question is how much they wanted to drag this.

[apalisoc_9]

I don’t think it’s an unfair question, tbh, but I think it’s also fair to point out they were in a tough spot (for whatever reasons, which I’m not privy to)



I don’t know. He went from winning a championship and finals mvp and I love you pop to that. Does he pulls that shit if they didn’t ring and he doesn’t become some sort of promising brand? I just don’t know the answer to that.



I heard that from MoSpur, who’s been calling the shots correctly on the whole situation. I don’t know who that is, maybe he has more details.

I’m merely pointing out that once we reached that moment where he refused to play and be with the team and basically demand a trade, the Spurs were never getting even 50c on the dollar. The only question is how much they wanted to drag this.

They caved in.

Thats really the worst part about the trade. Its not that they trade kawhi for derozan...No..Because thats probably the best trade they received. Other Orgs were aware that if SA did nothing, kawhi was going to refuse to play anyway. They had zero leverage in the summer but they could have had some leverage in feb when teams were desperate.

Most organizations knew what happened in San Anontio its why they got shitty offers and this was by far their best offer.

[Bynumite]

The book was already out on DeFrozen when the trade took place, he's a career loser. Could've at least asked for Siakam instead and see if it panned out, you guys had nothing to lose at that point.

[DavidTheGoliath]

The book was already out on DeFrozen when the trade took place, he's a career loser. Could've at least asked for Siakam instead and see if it panned out, you guys had nothing to lose at that point.

Salaries dont match

[DPG21920]

But yeah, after the fact, the questions deserve to be asked. But SA was a playoff team and with Murray? More than they were.

But the guessing is over. SA knows what they have now even though hindsight tells us it wasn’t a good trade it can be salvaged

[tbdog]

I got no issues with the trade. We still have a pick to play with. The problem was that all offseason moves were made before the trade and the team structure was a mess because of it. Then Murray goes down for the season. Pop and Co did their best to get the most out of the team. LMA was disappointing this series though. A good season but was outplayed by Jokic who I thought LMA should have easily done better.

[ElNono]

They caved in.

Thats really the worst part about the trade. Its not that they trade kawhi for derozan...No..Because thats probably the best trade they received. Other Orgs were aware that if SA did nothing, kawhi was going to refuse to play anyway. They had zero leverage in the summer but they could have had some leverage in feb when teams were desperate.

Most organizations knew what happened in San Anontio its why they got shitty offers and this was by far their best offer.

I think they just wanted to avoid the drama and exposure. This has always been a low-key organization. We can certainly entertain that and break down if it was a good or bad decision.

There’s just no silver lining where the Spurs would get cents on the dollar and still look great. Look at Denver, Carmelo forced his way out, and it took them years to recover.

[rascal]

The Spurs waited too long in trading Kawhi. The latest they should have moved him was on draft night but they were still trying to convince him to stay.
That is how a conservative organization plays it. That was their mistake, to believe he was going to stay.

Tobias and the two draft picks was the way to go and look for building for the future. Then swap one of the two picks for the number 10 pick and draft Mikal Bridges. Philly traded that number 10 pick for the number 16 and a 2021 Miami draft pick. Spurs needed to get in the mix to land Bridges on draft night but the conservative organization that they are did nothing with trades on draft night.

[spursistan]

If Scumbag rings, this is going to be an alltime bad look for this front office..A GM-ing travesty of epic proportions...

Imagine turning into the Raptors farm team :lmao..

[dbreiden83080]

He didn’t want to play in San Antonio anymore. It is what it is. Odds are he won’t be in Toronto next season either. And the fans will hate him there as well. He will probably be a clipper.

[dbreiden83080]

If Scumbag rings, this is going to be an alltime bad look for this front office..A GM-ing travesty of epic proportions...

Imagine turning into the Raptors farm team :lmao..

He won’t be in the finals. I really love this Milwaukee Bucks team. They have all the ingredients to make it to the finals.

And the front office did nothing wrong. What exactly were they supposed to do when this fucking asshole quit on the team and demanded to be traded.

[HarlemHeat37]

He didn’t want to play in San Antonio anymore. It is what it is. Odds are he won’t be in Toronto next season either. And the fans will hate him there as well. He will probably be a clipper.

Not a single person in Canada will hate him if he leaves after leading them to a title, maybe even just the Finals..

He's a BIG deal here right now..

[dbreiden83080]

Not a single person in Canada will hate him if he leaves after leading them to a title, maybe even the Finals..

Well they won’t be in the finals. So he will get a lot of shit next season when he comes back for a visit. Trust me.

[Trainwreck2100]

He didn’t want to play in San Antonio anymore. It is what it is. Odds are he won’t be in Toronto next season either. And the fans will hate him there as well. He will probably be a clipper.
not if he rings, and then leaves

[daslicer]

Not a single person in Canada will hate him if he leaves after leading them to a title, maybe even just the Finals..

He's a BIG deal here right now..

:lol Nice job in being clever. Of course they won't hate him if he brings them a title and leaves. However if he comes short of bringing them a title and bolts they will definitely despise him.

[spursistan]

He won’t be in the finals. I really love this Milwaukee Bucks team. They have all the ingredients to make it to the finals.

And the front office did nothing wrong. What exactly were they supposed to do when this fucking asshole quit on the team and demanded to be traded.

That's why DAF86 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11102) is telling us to get on board of this bandwagon :lol..

I didn't enact the trade and I feel embarrassed by this flagrant heist..I don't care what the circumstances were, players of that pedigree only get moved if, at the very least, a Top 5 pick was involved..

[Trainwreck2100]

Not a single person in Canada will hate him if he leaves after leading them to a title, maybe even just the Finals..

He's a BIG deal here right now..

I disagree if he loses the finals, gives them that taste and then bounces, they'll probably be indignant. Giving someone hope and then taking it away hurts more then just not giving it to begin with.

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol Nice job in being clever. Of course they won't hate him if he brings them a title and leaves. However if he comes short of bring them a title and he bolts they will definitely despise him.

Most won't despise him..every Raptors fan, even the homer, has been fully aware that this could be just a 1-year rental.. he'll get booed by a few fans, but it won't be anything egregious..

This isn't like the Spurs, where he quit on the team..

[Trainwreck2100]

What sucked the most was losing Green too, with him the spurs probably pick up a couple of their closer losses. Also somehow not getting siakam was a kick in the nuts. They really did just give him away cause he wanted to leave. Cause a certain person did a certain thing.

[HarlemHeat37]

I disagree if he loses the finals, gives them that taste and then bounces, they'll probably be indignant. Giving someone hope and then taking it away hurts more then just not giving it to begin with.

I'd be surprised..just reaching the Finals would be huge here..you have to realize that the closest the Raptors fanbase has ever been to the Finals is Vince Carter missing that shot in game 7:lol (they reached the ECFs with DeRozan/Lowry, but nobody believed that they could beat LeBron that year)

[daslicer]

Most won't despise him..every Raptors fan, even the homer, has been fully aware that this could be just a 1-year rental.. he'll get booed by a few fans, but it won't be anything egregious..

This isn't like the Spurs, where he quit on the team..

They are saying all that stuff right now but it's hard for me to believe they won't get emotional if he bolts especially if they were on the verge of contending for a title. I think secretly a lot them believe he will stay. We'll see how they react to him leaving this summer.

[Trainwreck2100]

I'd be surprised..just reaching the Finals would be huge here..you have to realize that the closest the Raptors fanbase has ever been to the Finals is Vince Carter missing that shot in game 7:lol (they reached the ECFs with DeRozan/Lowry, but nobody believed that they could beat LeBron that year)

Like i said man it's better to not give someone hope then to give them hope. Toronto is seeing something they have never seen before, they have faith they can win, faith in their future. Kawhi leaving Toronto tanks that franchise, almost as much as his leaving tanked the Spurs. They'll be left with nothing and have to overpay FAs because they'll use what they did to Demar as leverage.

[kobyz]

People here will keep blaming kawhi for wanting to leave instead of pop ruining the franchise...

[monty4329]

People here will keep blaming kawhi for wanting to leave instead of pop ruining the franchise...

Kawhi and Green were misdiagnosed, and wanted to leave. In hindisght, they were right. Sad truth...

[Frenchfred]

Kawhi signed a contract, he could have finished his contract and leave instead of being a drama queen and pretending to be injured.

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs would probably win about 3 more rings if Kawhi stayed here, especially if you consider that we have 3 young promising guards who are on rookie deals

[Frenchfred]

Kawhi didn't want to stay here so end of story

[gambit1990]

not only was this an awful trade but the spurs chose the wrong time to make a move too...

they should’ve agreed to trade him if it suited up for some games this season. and if he said no? the spurs could’ve still traded him anyways.

[gambit1990]

demar is a fucking scrub. dude will never live up to his contract. he will never get close.

[dbreiden83080]

That's why DAF86 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11102) is telling us to get on board of this bandwagon :lol..

I didn't enact the trade and I feel embarrassed by this flagrant heist..I don't care what the circumstances were, players of that pedigree only get moved if, at the very least, a Top 5 pick was involved..

Well I am sure you recall how ugly things were in the entire second half of that season. I think he was going to refuse to play honestly. And It was going to be a situation where the players Association and the league were going to have to get involved. We all think as is, that he was faking an injury most of the season. I sure do. They had to move him.

[bic50]

No need to revisit the trade. Spurs won hands down. Plus Kawhi can still leave this summer for the Clippers or another team.
No they didn’t

[Amuseddaysleeper]

:lol Nice job in being clever. Of course they won't hate him if he brings them a title and leaves. However if he comes short of bringing them a title and bolts they will definitely despise him.

No, they absolutely won't despise him if he leaves. Everyone here knows it's not guaranteed that he'll resign. They have zero reason to despise him if he bolts. He's already given them more excitement than any other player in franchise history in regards to being potential title contenders. He is worshiped here and many have already made peace with the fact he may leave.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Well they won’t be in the finals. So he will get a lot of shit next season when he comes back for a visit. Trust me.

BS, nobody up here would be mad at him if he left. They're just grateful he's been at MVP level this season and making the Raps a legit threat.

[duncan2k5]

I'm still puzzled what were they thinking teaming up these two..

Now ppl are finally seeing what I've been saying the entire season... I was bashed to hell for saying this

[dbreiden83080]

BS, nobody up here would be mad at him if he left. They're just grateful he's been at MVP level this season and making the Raps a legit threat.

And WTF are they going to be next season when he bails for LA with zero compensation for the Raptors? Yeah I am sure KD would love to take a FA meeting in Toronto..

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

The team took the best trade available. People keep acting like its fucking NBA 2K with the trade reject option off, it's not as simple to get fair value when everyone knows you have to trade a good player that might be damaged goods.

The only other so called good rumored trade was the Clippers offer of Harris and the 2 first round picks for Kawhi. But the key word is "rumored" and the other issue is the Spurs don't want to have to consistently contend with a Kawhi lead team to make the playoffs. Not too mention Tobias Harris has slowly been getting better as a player but not many people would've openly stated he had a decent shot at being an all-star at the half way point of this season.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

And WTF are they going to be next season when he bails for LA with zero compensation for the Raptors? Yeah I am sure KD would love to take a FA meeting in Toronto..

Ujiri purposely went all in this year alone, tons of salaries off the books this summer and Siakim is one of the most promising young players in the league.

Raps could’ve held onto DeRozan and been perennial playoff losers or go all in with an mvp level talent and see what happens.

Nobody up here would be pissed at all the extra cap space and rebuilding on the fly. They’d all gladly take one year of Kawhi over 5 years of DeRozan

[HarlemHeat37]

Ujiri purposely went all in this year alone, tons of salaries off the books this summer and Siakim is one of the most promising young players in the league.

Raps could’ve held onto DeRozan and been perennial playoff losers or go all in with an mvp level talent and see what happens.

Nobody up here would be pissed at all the extra cap space and rebuilding on the fly. They’d all gladly take one year of Kawhi over 5 years of DeRozan

Ujiri's the best GM in the NBA, he'll make the correct moves..this move was genius, not just for getting Kawhi, but also for salary dumping DeRozan without having to deal with the stupidity of homer fans..

[21209]

I can't bring myself to hate Kawhi, he's a special player.

I'm glad that I got to see him be an instrumental part in bringing a championship to SA.

[SpursBig3s]

He was injured till around late feb. HE could have played though but during the injury someone in the org did said something to Kawhi that kinda made him rethink his situation.

Remeber when they even gave a timetable for return? Because he was about to return...

But he didnt appreciate that one dudes input and he felt extremely disrespected so he just decided to not return and worst ask for a trade.

That persons name might pop out if the raps reach the finals though :lol


if this is actually true, did the Spurs fire this guy? How egregious was the comment/input this guy made? Was it really that bad enough for kawhi to go full AWOL? It seems like it would be a simple “kawhi were totally committed to u we’re gonna fire this guy” I mean I would

[apalisoc_9]

if this is actually true, did the Spurs fire this guy? How egregious was the comment/input this guy made? Was it really that bad enough for kawhi to go full AWOL? It seems like it would be a simple “kawhi were totally committed to u we’re gonna fire this guy” I mean I would

They csnt fire that said guy. Its not TP or Pop if anyones wondering :lol

[GusT15]

They csnt fire that said guy. Its not TP or Pop if anyones wondering :lol

You're talking about RC or ownership then.

[SpursBig3s]

They csnt fire that said guy. Its not TP or Pop if anyones wondering :lol


gotcha. And im not trying to attack u, this is just the first I’ve heard of this specific thing. It just confuses me how something 1 person said could send this whole thing into turmoil. It was really that bad what this guy said?

[daslicer]

No, they absolutely won't despise him if he leaves. Everyone here knows it's not guaranteed that he'll resign. They have zero reason to despise him if he bolts. He's already given them more excitement than any other player in franchise history in regards to being potential title contenders. He is worshiped here and many have already made peace with the fact he may leave.

I don't buy into that bs. You are a troll so I can't take you seriously. I have been to realgm and seen a ton of Raptor fans spaz out when opposing fans say #2 is going to LA this summer. A lot of them actually believe if they get to the finals that he will stay. Realgm for me will be a better gauge on how they handle #2's departure this summer.

[apalisoc_9]

gotcha. And im not trying to attack u, this is just the first I’ve heard of this specific thing. It just confuses me how something 1 person said could send this whole thing into turmoil. It was really that bad what this guy said?

Its not just said but what he did to. Well its not like that guy is an irrelevant intern

[BackHome]

If KY leaves Toronto for Cali then we all know we were right and better to get something then nothing.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I don't buy into that bs. You are a troll so I can't take you seriously. I have been to realgm and seen a ton of Raptor fans spaz out when opposing fans say #2 is going to LA this summer. A lot of them actually believe if they get to the finals that he will stay. Realgm for me will be a better gauge on how they handle #2's departure this summer.

I live in Toronto, they are just happy he’s playing hard. The raps have done everything they can to keep him, if he leaves it’s hos decision and I guarantee you no matter what happens in these playoffs he’ll get an liud cheer as a visitor should he leave. I’m around raptor fans literally everyday, it’s all anyone talks about.

No one is going to be bitter towards Kawhi if he leaves. Everyone knew the “risk” when it came to trading DeRozan. Spurs got fleeced.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Ujiri's the best GM in the NBA, he'll make the correct moves..this move was genius, not just for getting Kawhi, but also for salary dumping DeRozan without having to deal with the stupidity of homer fans..

Agreed, love his all on approach and even when the Raps has one of the best records in the league this season he still kept making moves to improve them as oppose to settling with what they had.

[slick'81]

If KY leaves Toronto for Cali then we all know we were right and better to get something then nothing.


And if he stays is def a shit deal overall

[ElNono]

As I have been saying from the start, we should've kept Kawhi, won 60 games, made the WCF, and then offered him the supermax in the summer. There's no way he would've walked away from that.

What part of he wasn’t playing another game in a Spurs uniform you don’t get?

He sit out almost an entire season, was ready to do the same again.

[duncan2k5]

What part of he wasn’t playing another game in a Spurs uniform you don’t get?

He sit out almost an entire season, was ready to do the same again.

Ppl also said there was no way he would suit up for another team... How insanely wrong were they? Lol

[ElNono]

Ppl also said there was no way he would suit up for another team... How insanely wrong were they? Lol

He didn’t burn bridges in Toronto... and they still won’t get any commitment from him

[objective]

He sit out almost an entire season, was ready to do the same again.

I wish he had

If he wins a title this year, I'll be done with the NBA

Pop and RC should get rings if the Raptors win. And they'd happily accept them too.

[duncan2k5]

He didn’t burn bridges in Toronto... and they still won’t get any commitment from him

But he played... When ppl were adamant he wouldn't... So him committing to stay is besides the point ppl are making... He would have played here this season if they kept him

[ElNono]

But he played... When ppl were adamant he wouldn't... So him committing to stay is besides the point ppl are making... He would have played here this season if they kept him

People had legit concerns he was actually injured. It was all a charade. The fact he didn’t land where he wanted meant he had to prove his stock again. It’s all very cynical and transparent at the same time, tbh

[EricB]

If KY leaves Toronto for Cali then we all know we were right and better to get something then nothing.

Hes practically wearing a clipper jersey. It’s been known prob since about October.

[EricB]

Man I thought you are well connected within the organization? its a pretty well known fact that the relationship soured between Kawhi and Org because someone in the Organization (Not pop) screwed it up. Kawhi was legitimateld injured till around March, but they decided they were done with the org once that particular person did what he did. :lol


Was never injured. This goes all the way back to the China trip he made. So let’s nip that BS in the bud

[EricB]

But he played... When ppl were adamant he wouldn't... So him committing to stay is besides the point ppl are making... He would have played here this season if they kept him


No no he wouldn’t have and stop talking like you know anything.

[EricB]

And if he stays is def a shit deal overall


Hes not staying.

[daslicer]

I live in Toronto, they are just happy he’s playing hard. The raps have done everything they can to keep him, if he leaves it’s hos decision and I guarantee you no matter what happens in these playoffs he’ll get an liud cheer as a visitor should he leave. I’m around raptor fans literally everyday, it’s all anyone talks about.

No one is going to be bitter towards Kawhi if he leaves. Everyone knew the “risk” when it came to trading DeRozan. Spurs got fleeced.

Like I said before I don’t buy into your BS. You are a troll and have zero credibility with me.

[duncan2k5]

People had legit concerns he was actually injured. It was all a charade. The fact he didn’t land where he wanted meant he had to prove his stock again. It’s all very cynical and transparent at the same time, tbh

So if that was the case he would prove he is super healthy by playing every game... He was clearly injured and had to ease his way throughout the season

[Killakobe81]

What makes the deal really lopsided was also sending out Danny Green and receiving no one back to fill the void left at the wing position. Should have pushed hard for Siakam or even Anunoby instead of Poetl who hasn't done jack shit for us.

This.
Said this at time of the trade.
KL was the blue chipper sure he only had one year on deal left but you push for Siakm but at LEAST get back Anouby. And tbh you dont let Green Walk with Siakm Spurs beat Nuggs easily yes DD's playmaking would have been missed but Pop is a smart coach and you could have traded for another ...

Seems like spurs wanted the best "right now player" and DD helped them make playoffs so Spurs were right about that ...but still dumb to trade a francise guy and not get their best young prospect in return.

[Kurgan]

This.
Said this at time of the trade.
KL was the blue chipper sure he only had one year on deal left but you push for Siakm but at LEAST get back Anouby. And tbh you dont let Green Walk with Siakm Spurs beat Nuggs easily yes DD's playmaking would have been missed but Pop is a smart coach and you could have traded for another ...

I could understand if the Raptors played hardball and put a red line at Anunoby or Siakam. Fine...Spurs were in a position of weakness. Any trade partner would have all the leverage with the clusterfuck conditions that Kawhi's group laid out there. But to also include Danny Green and not take back any wing players...even scrubs like CJ Miles. It's beyond stupid. And they threw in $5 million on top of all that. If you're going to lose Kawhi, use it as a chance to salary dump Mills or Gasol at least.


Seems like spurs wanted the best "right now player" and DD helped them make playoffs so Spurs were right about that ...but still dumb to trade a francise guy and not get their best young prospect in return.

Mostly right:

https://twitter.com/Mitch_Lawrence/status/1019623060155129858

This automatically rules out the Tobias Harris + picks Clippers deal, since he was just under 19 ppg last season. Would have been much better for the Spurs but they reallly wanted that 20 ppg scorer. SA made a be-mediocre-now move instead of trading for a package of young players or draft picks. As a fan it's disappointing to see Pop put his own interests(not retiring on a lotto team) ahead of the team's.

[DPG21920]

DeRozan being a 6th man makes a lot of sense. I doubt with his stature and fragility he would accept that role, but it (IMO) would solve a lot of problems.

Having a SL of Murray, White, 3PT shooting SF, PF, LMA with a bench of DeRozan, Forbes, Lonnie, Bertans, Jakob type lineup (or insert draft picks, free agents) would be a very well balanced team and allow DeRozan to feast, create and surround him by 3PT shooters to take advantage of his play making.

If hes playing well, he closes at SF with Murray/White to cover up on defense assuming sa has a PF that can shoot/space/defend some.