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View Full Version : Grades: Spurs @ Nets - Feb. 25, 2019



timvp
02-25-2019, 11:24 PM
https://i.imgur.com/EPirfzN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Glb2lYa.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JN0Ddba.jpg

Mercifully, the 2019 Rodeo Road Trip is finally in the books. With a 101-86 loss in Brooklyn, the Spurs finished the trip with a 1-7 record -- their only win a 1-point victory over a reeling Grizzlies squad.

While this was a difficult Rodeo Road Trip on paper, the results were definitely disappointing. They entered the annual pilgrimage riding a five-game winning streak. They return home licking their wounds while wondering whether the playoffs are legitimately attainable.

That said, while the Knicks loss on Sunday was an unmitigated disaster, tonight's game against the Nets wasn't all bad. In fact, the loss came down to a singular failure: the role players who are on the team for their ability to shoot the ball couldn't hit a shot.

Bryn Forbes, Patty Mills, Marco Belinelli and Davis Bertans were a combined 5-for-33 from the field and 2-for-17 on three-pointers. That is 15.2% and 11.8%, respectively. Add in Derrick White and Jakob Poeltl and those six complementary players were 8-for-50 for a miserable 16%. That, uh, won't get it done. In fact, it's miraculous that the game was even halfway competitive.

The defense performed well enough. Hell, compared to the recent showings on that end, the Spurs were downright dominant on defense. LaMarcus Aldridge, DeMar DeRozan and Rudy Gay performed well offensively. San Antonio played well enough to win outside of their role players hitting shots. After that nightmare in New York City, this was a step in the right direction.

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LaMarcus Aldridge
https://i.imgur.com/1nluyNF.png
LaMarcus Aldridge looks healthy again. He ran the court well, was physical with the ball in the low block and competed well throughout. His defense was also stout. He defended the rim well and was active in pick-and-rolls. Aldridge did enough for the Spurs to win.
Grade: B+
Summary: Aldridge was solid in all phases.

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DeMar DeRozan
https://i.imgur.com/ZKxGADZ.png
DeMar DeRozan had another efficient scoring night. He took good shots, didn't force the issue and was passing plenty. His season-low two assists point more to the fact that his teammates were shooting blanks rather than selfishness. DeRozan's most glaring fault on offense was not shooting enough. He was routinely passing up open looks outside of 15 feet. I don't mind him not shooting three-pointers but the spacing can't survive DeRozan being hesitant to shoot wide open midrange jumpers. Defensively, DeRozan was about average. He got lost in the zone defensive schemes a lot ... but that wasn't unique to just him.
Grade: B
Summary: DeRozan played well enough for the Spurs to win.

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Bryn Forbes
https://i.imgur.com/yXVIEAs.png
Ugh. Bryn Forbes remains ice cold coming out of the All-Star break. He's now shooting 28.6% from the field and 15% on three-pointers since the break. He has ten assists and no turnovers in those three games but that doesn't come close to making up for his misfirings. Forbes' confidence is bottoming out but to his credit he's not shying away from shooting; the moment he is scared to shoot is the moment he loses all value. Defensively, he was better than his recent outings ... but, then again, that's about the lowest possible bar.
Grade: D
Summary: Forbes isn't shooting straight.

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Derrick White
https://i.imgur.com/IrTA2dV.png
Derrick White doesn't look 100% physically yet but he was moving better against Brooklyn. Defensively, he was active. He moved his feet well, got hands on balls and rotated quickly. Offensively, he's a couple beats out of rhythm and he's not getting sufficient lift on his shots. That's leading to more misses and more mistakes than usual. But, still, his playmaking is helpful and the Spurs look most cohesive when he has the ball.
Grade: B-
Summary: White is working his way back.

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Davis Bertans
https://i.imgur.com/ucY2jSF.png
Davis Bertans was again in the starting lineup again. Again it was a disappointment. He's not getting touches as a starter and is forced to attempt ill-advised shots just to shake off the cobwebs every now and then. Defensively, I thought he was pretty darn impressive out on the perimeter. The Nets guards attempted to shake and bake him out at the three-point line and had very little success. Bertans wasn't as stingy in the paint but he held his own.
Grade: C+
Summary: Bertans isn't meshing well with the starters.

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Marco Belinelli
https://i.imgur.com/hP9vIFY.png
This wasn't good timing. For the second straight game, the Spurs really needed production from Marco Belinelli and once again he failed to produce. He couldn't hit shots, didn't make plays and his movement was muted. Defensively, he was better than usual on the boards but was otherwise not much of a help.
Grade: D
Summary: Belinelli didn't answer the bell.

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Patty Mills
https://i.imgur.com/gTa4B5z.png
Yikes. Patty Mills is 3-for-21 from the field over the last two nights. To make matters worse, he failed to record an assist against the Nets (though, truth be told, he did have a couple good passes that weren't converted). Though he pulled the trigger at a reasonable rate, I didn't like his shot-selection -- too many contested shots early in the shot clock. Defensively, Mills gave decent enough effort but didn't move the needle.
Grade: D
Summary: Mills barely helped at all.

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Rudy Gay
https://i.imgur.com/vqYr2we.png
Rudy Gay came off the bench and did okay. Compared to the rest of the bench, he was Jordan-esque, in fact. Without him, things would have gotten a few degrees uglier. Defensively, his movements were slow but his physicality kept him from being too much of a liability.
Grade: B-
Summary: Gay carried his weight.

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Jakob Poeltl
https://i.imgur.com/FUIlW00.png
What happened? Jakob Poeltl entered the game shooting 65.5% from the field. Since the All-Star break, he was 10-for-11 from the field. Tonight? Poeltl was badly missing chip shots every chance he got. By my count, he airballed at least two layups. Strange. Poeltl rebounded well, played reasonably well defensively but his offensive ineptness overshadowed everything else.
Grade: D+
Summary: Poeltl forgot how to lay the ball up.

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Pop
https://i.imgur.com/x7B1It7.jpg
Why did Bertans start over Gay? The only explanation that makes sense is Pop wanted to keep Gay's minutes in check on the second night of a back-to-back. Other than that, nothing much Pop did hurt or helped the team. When the complementary players are 8-for-50 from the field, there's not much a coach can do to stop the ship from sinking.
Grade: B-
Summary: No magic potions were available.

Looking ahead: Welp, at least the Rodeo Road Trip is over. Let's hope the good guys can regroup, get over the disappointment and realize they have an advantageous schedule the rest of the way.

Next up is a three-game homestand that begins Wednesday night against the Pistons. Get the win and get back on track.

Keepin' it real
02-25-2019, 11:27 PM
There was a game tonight?

Leetonidas
02-25-2019, 11:30 PM
Kudos to you for even taking the time to write up these miserable performances :toast

timvp
02-25-2019, 11:32 PM
Kudos to you for even taking the time to write up these miserable performances :toast

The Spurs are pretty awesome this year compared to '97 and '89, tbh :tu

DPG21920
02-25-2019, 11:37 PM
Nothing about this team is awesome. This has been a disaster. Trading your best player for a win now package then not winning?

It’s bad.

I don’t care if other teams are sucking more. This is terrible basketball

Hoops Czar
02-25-2019, 11:38 PM
Is Poeltl really keeping Pau on the bench? :lmao

Hoops Czar
02-25-2019, 11:40 PM
Nothing about this team is awesome. This has been a disaster. Trading your best player for a win now package then not winning?

It’s bad.


I don’t care if other teams are sucking more. This is terrible basketball

Funny how you weren't saying this three months ago.

DPG21920
02-25-2019, 11:46 PM
Funny how you weren't saying this three months ago.

Well yeah. It made sense with picking that strategy and I was fine with it. But, like a rational person, with time and seeing how it actually played out it was a failed gamble. Why would I still be ok with it now that I have data that shows it didn’t work?

timtonymanu
02-25-2019, 11:49 PM
How was this a step in the right direction unless the standard is so low now and you mean towards the lottery? :lol

DPG21920
02-25-2019, 11:55 PM
I get what TIMVP is saying; if you are evaluating the game only on this game and not anything else, it was better on defense.

However, results matter. Especially for a win now team with a ton riding on the trade of their star player and their return from that franchise altering decision.

Play Boban
02-25-2019, 11:57 PM
Forges is a forgery. PATFO has been hoodwinked. Fire them.

Hoops Czar
02-26-2019, 12:39 AM
Well yeah. It made sense with picking that strategy and I was fine with it. But, like a rational person, with time and seeing how it actually played out it was a failed gamble. Why would I still be ok with it now that I have data that shows it didn’t work?

You needed data to convince you that players like Forbes, Belinelli, Bertans, Mills, and Gasol weren't going to move the needle for the Spurs? Or the fact that they literally sold a top three player and one of their best wing defenders for a salary dumped head case and got no assets of any kind in return? They sold their future for three years of mediocrity because like I told you three months ago, you need three things to compete in today's NBA. You need building blocks to attract elite free agents, assets to make trades and build a competitive roster around your elite free agents and a front office that gets things done. The Spurs have none of the above nor do they even have much of an existence beyond this small three year window.

Atl Spur
02-26-2019, 12:46 AM
Relax....... are spurs fans really this spoiled? If so, you’d have to admit patfo has been rock solid for some people’s lifetime:) We need a few pieces;they’ll come.

DPG21920
02-26-2019, 12:52 AM
Relax....... are spurs fans really this spoiled? If so, you’d have to admit patfo has been rock solid for some people’s lifetime:) We need a few pieces;they’ll come.

What does being spoiled have to do with evaluating this team? This team has been bad. They not only are losing, but have been wildly uncompetive while they lose.

It’s one thing to play well and lose coin flips; that happens. This is not that.

It’s not normal to trail by double digits like this all the time. To rarely if ever find the ability to climb out of the holes. Sure sa fans are used to winning, but griping about this team is not about being spoiled; its about a team with serious flaws that has had way more downs than ups.

DPG21920
02-26-2019, 12:58 AM
timvp - you still think this type of going down double digits and getting beat down is the norm? The more and more it happens, the less and less it feels like this is happening to other teams this consistently.

Robz4000
02-26-2019, 01:05 AM
timvp - you still think this type of going down double digits and getting beat down is the norm? The more and more it happens, the less and less it feels like this is happening to other teams this consistently.

It happens because of two reasons: the Spurs shooting so few three pointers compared to the rest of the league and having a bad defense that can't make up for it (including the bad rebounding). Unless they're shooting a high percentage from three they just don't generate enough points to keep up with modern NBA offenses. The Spurs have one of the most efficient offenses in the league, but it really feels like every game is a grind in terms of generating buckets outside bench explosions from the three-point squad.

Leetonidas
02-26-2019, 01:07 AM
The Spurs are pretty awesome this year compared to '97 and '89, tbh :tu

At least they were rewarded after that in the draft. Don't see that happening next year tbh

Hoops Czar
02-26-2019, 01:12 AM
It happens because of two reasons: the Spurs shooting so few three pointers compared to the rest of the league and having a bad defense that can't make up for it (including the bad rebounding). Unless they're shooting a high percentage from three they just don't generate enough points to keep up with modern NBA offenses. The Spurs have one of the most efficient offenses in the league, but it really feels like every game is a grind in terms of generating buckets outside bench explosions from the three-point squad.

The Spurs are 3rd in offensive efficiency so keeping up with NBA offenses in the modern day era is not the problem. It's the lack of a modern day head coach and the 23rd ranked defense that's the problem. I mean, how many times can you go back to the well of Forbes before it isn't funny anymore?

Millennial_Messiah
02-26-2019, 01:23 AM
N-E-T-S NETS NETS NETS!! CAN'T STOP THE BLOOM OF THOSE NETS BABY! WHOOOOOOO

timvp
02-26-2019, 01:30 AM
timvp - you still think this type of going down double digits and getting beat down is the norm? The more and more it happens, the less and less it feels like this is happening to other teams this consistently.

https://i.imgur.com/JWZDnJw.png

That's not exactly the stats we've previously discussed but it looks like the Spurs are in the same boat as everyone else. If the phenomenon you've theorized existed, one would imagine something in that graphic would stand out, wouldn't you think?

phxspurfan
02-26-2019, 01:31 AM
Sir Charles actually commented on the stat about the Spurs being something like 0-20 when trailing going into the 4th. Basically said thats a really bad sign. That it means the team gives up.

phxspurfan
02-26-2019, 01:34 AM
Also Walker needs to get some burn. Team desperately needs some young energy / scoring punch in Today's NBA. Something 'trusty vets' like Gasol, Pondexter and Cunningham don't provide. Last year that punch came from guys like Murray and Anderson, who were both young and were fairly unknown/not well scouted (x factors).

In fact, teams really only 'need' at most 1 trusty vet for locker room/mentorship. This year is a roster construction issue, as everyone knows.

Robz4000
02-26-2019, 01:35 AM
The Spurs are 3rd in offensive efficiency so keeping up with NBA offenses in the modern day era is not the problem. It's the lack of a modern day head coach and the 23rd ranked defense that's the problem. I mean, how many times can you go back to the well of Forbes before it isn't funny anymore?

Offensive efficiency is great and all but the offense clearly has a fatal flaw from the lack of volume three point shooting. The team is full of good to elite three point specialists (half of them only having that as an NBA level talent) yet they take the fewest in the league. I understand their best offensive players are midrange specialists, but handicapping the only talent the team has doesn't make sense.

spurs10
02-26-2019, 02:12 AM
Thanks for the grades! I was hoping they could have forgotten about those horrible nightmares in CA and NYC, but that wasn't to be. This RRT was almost as bad as it could be and I'm glad it's over. I still expect us to win 14 games out of the next 20 and play the Denver Kind Buds in the first round. Anything other than playing You Know Who in the first round is an improvement. I think they'll continue to do well at home, so let's hope we've been tortured enough.

vavvi
02-26-2019, 02:47 AM
Starting Bertans over Gay messes up our second unit which was winning the games for us

monty4329
02-26-2019, 03:44 AM
" the role players who are on the team for their ability to shoot the ball couldn't hit a shot. "

Yes, but WHY? They almost never had an open shot. Nets defense was always contesting shots.

There was (is, lately) zero movement on the offense. Zero. It is all iso, iso, iso all the time. Either DDR, Aldrige, even Gay. Always ISO. No movement, no timely passes, nothing: hence, bad shots.

Playing like that, even beating the Suns will be hard.

TheGreatYacht
02-26-2019, 04:46 AM
MVParker dropped 21pts, 5ast, 5reb, 63fg%, +14 on this team three nights ago.

Just wanted you faux stat nerds to know.

Coach X
02-26-2019, 07:50 AM
Pop

Why did Bertans start over Gay? The only explanation that makes sense is Pop wanted to keep Gay's minutes in check on the second night of a back-to-back. Other than that, nothing much Pop did hurt or helped the team. When the complementary players are 8-for-50 from the field, there's not much a coach can do to stop the ship from sinking.

Zone defense is the answer.

Popovich and his coaches decided to play alternative defenses: 2-3 zone after scoring, man to man otherwise. Spurs have been playing zone here and there and Gay has been very bad with it. Bertans has more experience playing zone defense coming from European professional basketball.

I'm not sure if that was the best game plan: playing zone defense against the team more zone defense plays, therefore the team more zone defense attacks in practices and more zone defense adjustments and offenses have faced and discussed. I wouldn't blame Popovich for MSG humiliation but I'd say he had a key role on yesterdays defeat. At the end of the game, he said he was happy with the game as the Nets only scored 101 pts, made more TO's and worst shooting % than Spurs' opponents in the RRT. The truth is that Nets mixed a lot of unforced errors and bad 3pt shots with very patient and well organized offensive possessions and very good shot selection. So I won't be as happy as Popovich with the team's defense. Though, effort and fight were much better than the day before.

Bertans played good defense to me so I won't be surprised of him starting again.
Forbes is playing as bad defense as he's shooting accuracy, I completely disagree with coach Pop about this player. How many chances is he having? Last two or three Cunningham's sightings have been positive to me, doesn't he have more credit than fricking Brynn Forbes? I'd remove Forbes from the starting line up until he returns to play defense as he did in December and scores his shots. Try replacing him with Bertans, Mills, Belinelli, Poetl or whoever else, the defense can't be worst already.

I know NBA teams don't do the following but I believe this should be the next FIBA to NBA adaptation Popovich brings to the league: forget about fixed starting line-ups and start adapting them game by game to the opponent. Start Poetl/Gasol vs teams playing two bigs, go back to Gay/Bertans at PF against teams playing small or start both and move DeRozan to the SG to be more physical if needed. When you are short of talent you need adaptation, flexibility and be smarter.

jjktkk
02-26-2019, 08:56 AM
The Spurs are pretty awesome this year compared to '97 and '89, tbh :tu

The Spurs have been awesome since 76. :tu

jjktkk
02-26-2019, 09:05 AM
Offensive efficiency is great and all but the offense clearly has a fatal flaw from the lack of volume three point shooting. The team is full of good to elite three point specialists (half of them only having that as an NBA level talent) yet they take the fewest in the league. I understand their best offensive players are midrange specialists, but handicapping the only talent the team has doesn't make sense.

For any offense to be effective, You need a facilitator. White is slowly growing into that job.

jjktkk
02-26-2019, 09:07 AM
MVParker dropped 21pts, 5ast, 5reb, 63fg%, +14 on this team three nights ago.

Just wanted you faux stat nerds to know.

You are one of these stat nerds who doesn't watch the games. Are you posting to yourself, or one of your alts? :lol

skookumchuck
02-26-2019, 09:13 AM
Bertans played good defense

Bertans defense on Nets guards was arguably the best defense a 6-10 dude has played this year against guards. In stretches, anyway.

Das Texan
02-26-2019, 10:41 AM
The Spurs are pretty awesome this year compared to '97 and '89, tbh :tu

not really saying much though there.

I dont even get this team anymore.

John B
02-26-2019, 10:52 AM
B- for Pop is too high. I don’t know why you play zone defense when the opponent is shooting 3’s at will. The only upside, and probably gave him a higher grade, is not playing Gasol. Great to see that ship has sailed.

offset formation
02-26-2019, 10:57 AM
For any offense to be effective, You need a facilitator. White is slowly growing into that job.

Agreed...if he can stay healthy. Running the way he does sadly seems to make him more prone to foot issues and strains. And if that's the case, just when we think we're rolling for years to come, down he'll go for 3 weeks.

jjktkk
02-26-2019, 11:14 AM
Agreed...if he can stay healthy. Running the way he does sadly seems to make him more prone to foot issues and strains. And if that's the case, just when we think we're rolling for years to come, down he'll go for 3 weeks.

Unfortunately White's plantar fasciitis won't heal up until the Summer, when he can rest it. He can play thru it, but I don't know how effective he will be.

Truth4sale$
02-26-2019, 12:42 PM
Okay. Can we start Quincy Pondexter now. It cant get worst.

ZeusWillJudge
02-26-2019, 12:47 PM
Unfortunately White's plantar fasciitis won't heal up until the Summer, when he can rest it. He can play thru it, but I don't know how effective he will be.

He can. But he shouldn't. Especially in a meaningless last 20 games. If they start him on rest and rehab now, he will be 100% in training camp next year.

I had my doubts about Kawhi's claim that he didn't get proper medical care. But this makes me think it could be true. Pushing White to play through this is pointless and stupid.

DPG21920
02-26-2019, 12:49 PM
https://i.imgur.com/JWZDnJw.png

That's not exactly the stats we've previously discussed but it looks like the Spurs are in the same boat as everyone else. If the phenomenon you've theorized existed, one would imagine something in that graphic would stand out, wouldn't you think?

You’re correct - I would think it would stand out graphically. Maybe it’s my head but I watch a lot of other teams and especially for west playoff teams it doesn’t “feel” like they lose consistently where the game is always out of reach

ZeusWillJudge
02-26-2019, 01:17 PM
That's the nature of shooting 3's. It's high-variance ball. On a night where the 3's are falling like rain, any team can blow out any other team.

It's funny that the biggest winning margin and the biggest losing margin were both by Utah.

The graph can't show anything about garbage time. If the loser keeps their starters in until near the end, and cuts the deficit. Or if the subs knock down some 3's and turn a blowout into a 10 point loss, but the game is never really in question. One thing you can see is that the teams ahead of the Spurs in the standings have tighter ranges on the graph, except for maybe Utah. It doesn't say much if you're comparing the Spurs to the non-playoff teams.

Mugen
02-26-2019, 01:40 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/URI7924u8ybpm/giphy.gif

HarlemHeat37
02-26-2019, 02:04 PM
I was genuinely surprised at how badly Vegas mishandled this one..I only put 1 unit on it, thought it was an obvious trap:lol

This team is just so bad on the road.. White's injury limiting him really emphasizes how bad the rest of the team is, his emergence actually made the Spurs look like a mid-tier quality team for a minute..

J_Paco
02-26-2019, 09:56 PM
You needed data to convince you that players like Forbes, Belinelli, Bertans, Mills, and Gasol weren't going to move the needle for the Spurs? Or the fact that they literally sold a top three player and one of their best wing defenders for a salary dumped head case and got no assets of any kind in return? They sold their future for three years of mediocrity because like I told you three months ago, you need three things to compete in today's NBA. You need building blocks to attract elite free agents, assets to make trades and build a competitive roster around your elite free agents and a front office that gets things done. The Spurs have none of the above nor do they even have much of an existence beyond this small three year window.

I'd love for someone to grade who is a bigger tool bag between you and TD21. As if anyone and everyone doesn't realize "what is needed" to be competitive in the NBA....

The issue is those qualities are in short supply and the Spurs lack the biggest determining factor (elite talent).

None of the nonsense you typed would be of concern if the team had better/elite talent at the SF, or TBH, any position.

I forgot, you and TD21 are the forum armchair GM's and should always be trusted to know all.