Are there any Forbes apologists left?

[SpurPadre]

Tonight epitomized why I feel he's a cancer to this team and one of the biggest reasons why we're such a mediocre team. It isn't his defense, which even his biggest defenders here like Chinook acknowledge is his biggest flaw.

No for me, it's his over-aggressiveness on offense. If we all acknowledge he's a role player who's only starting because Murray is injured and "spaces the floor" why does he continually get off as many or more shots as our 3 best players in LMA, DeMar, and Gay? He was 2-14 tonight while DeMar was 9-14 and Gay 5-9. It's not just looking at the box score, anyone can see these games and see that Forbes is selfish on offense and has atrocious offensive awareness. He needs to know to pass the ball.

It baffles me how LJ praises Forbes for not being scared to shoot when to me, it's that aggressiveness that is to the team's detriment as LMA gets less touches, relegates Gay to spectator, and keeps DeMar, our best ball handler despite his fuckup against the Raptors, away from making plays. Truth is, his aggressive shooting isn't a thing to be celebrated. We'd be better off with a more passive Forbes if Pop insists on starting him the rest of the way. He should only take open shots as a last resort and never get more than 9 shots in a game. That's what I liked about Kyle Anderson. He knew his limitations and played to his strengths while knowing to facilitate offense to more capable players. Even Bonner, who when he started as a "floor spacer" knew not to jack up shots willy nilly.

Nothing gets on my skin in this game more than a player who thinks he's better than he is. And that's where we are with Forbes, who has fallen for Pop's infamous comparison to Curry. Pop talks about players needing to be over themselves, well what about Forbes? Now HE isn't over himself, Pop. The sooner we're rid of him as a starter, the better this team will be. You can point out other flaws in this heavily flawed team but not enough is said about Forbes being a big reason for what ails them, IMO. I look forward to the team improving over him in the offseason.

[slick'81]

Bury him and his twin patty mills

[Keepin' it real]

Paragraphs

[SpurPadre]

Paragraphs

I wasn't aware this is an academic submission.

[Play Boban]

Hs a poor man’s Hero Neal, who was also cancerous. He is a forgery.

[objective]

Bryntouchable works very hard. Have you heard that Pop thinks every shot he takes is going in?

[timvp]

No for me, it's his over-aggressiveness on offense.Meh, Forbes' usage percentage is sixth on the team behind DeRozan, Aldridge, Gay, Belinelli and Mills. How much further down the list do you want Forbes to be? White will pass him soon so he'll probably end the season seventh. I don't see how that can be classified as over-aggressive.


It baffles me how LJ praises Forbes for not being scared to shoot when to me, it's that aggressiveness that is to the team's detriment as LMA gets less touches, relegates Gay to spectator, and keeps DeMar, our best ball handler despite his fuckup against the Raptors, away from making plays. Truth is, his aggressive shooting isn't a thing to be celebrated. We'd be better off with a more passive Forbes if Pop insists on starting him the rest of the way. He should only take open shots as a last resort and never get more than 9 shots in a game. That's what I liked about Kyle Anderson.Forbes is what he is: a one-dimensional shooter. That's all he's ever going to be. In today's NBA, such players are somewhat valuable but they have to actually shoot the ball. For a counter example, Cunningham has hit half his threes but that doesn't translate to value because he doesn't shoot enough.

I'm not a huge Forbes fan, I don't view him as a long-term starter and I acknowledge he played poorly tonight but I don't have an issue with how much he shoots the ball. If anything, he needs to shoot even more to increase his value. There's really no other way for him to increase his value given his physical limitations. He has a better true shooting percentage than Aldridge or DeRozan and in a vacuum, you take an open Forbes shot over either of those two shooting.

If Forbes shot as often as Kyle Anderson, he wouldn't make it in the WNBA given the rest of his attributes :lol

[dbestpro]

He really needs to be relegated to 3rd string and should only see the floor for brief moments.

[Hoops Czar]

He really needs to be relegated to 3rd string and should only see the floor for brief moments.
Remember when Forbes was a Spurs nominee for most improved player just two months ago? Good times.

[TimDunkem]

If you were on an oppossing team - as long as he isn't getting open looks - you would be very happy with him hogging the ball so much. Of course he'll look good now and then considering he chucks so much, but any opponent would prefer him taking those shots over better players on the team.

[TheGreatYacht]

:pop:

[r0drig0lac]

Dwarves do not have more space in the league as important pieces unless they are anomalies like Isaiah or Lou (which are two of the most versatile scorers in the league, especially in ISO), even Curry becomes exploitable in the playoffs and would be seen otherwise if do not play on an ultra stacked team in relation to the own competition (see 0 fmvps in 4 finals played). JJ Redick is a master of screens (and played with two of the game's best screeners in Joel and DeAndre), so he can be useful.

Shooters in 2019 must be guys that can not be exploited defensively, they do not need to have 50% 3pt peaks,they just need to be "non-exploitable" enough not to return all of their offensive production on the other side of the court. the best current examples are Joe Harris and Ladry Shamet, who have size and can shoot better than most dwarves in the league.

[SouthTexasRancher]

But, Pop thinks he should get a max contract. Then again Pop thought Pau Gasol deserved $16,000,000.00 to keep the bench warm. Retire Pop, retire!

[monty4329]

Meh, Forbes' usage percentage is sixth on the team behind DeRozan, Aldridge, Gay, Belinelli and Mills. How much further down the list do you want Forbes to be? White will pass him soon so he'll probably end the season seventh. I don't see how that can be classified as over-aggressive.

Forbes is what he is: a one-dimensional shooter. That's all he's ever going to be. In today's NBA, such players are somewhat valuable but they have to actually shoot the ball. For a counter example, Cunningham has hit half his threes but that doesn't translate to value because he doesn't shoot enough.

I'm not a huge Forbes fan, I don't view him as a long-term starter and I acknowledge he played poorly tonight but I don't have an issue with how much he shoots the ball. If anything, he needs to shoot even more to increase his value. There's really no other way for him to increase his value given his physical limitations. He has a better true shooting percentage than Aldridge or DeRozan and in a vacuum, you take an open Forbes shot over either of those two shooting.

If Forbes shot as often as Kyle Anderson, he wouldn't make it in the WNBA given the rest of his attributes :lol

DDR is shooting like crap and playing more than him.

Forbes has had excellent games. Rodeo trip was shit for everybody (to me it all depends on DDR but that's me and not Pop, obviously he trusts him and is a HOF so he must be right). Once movement starts again being part of the offense, Forbes will again be hitting threes and going nicely to the basket on closeouts. Same for Beli.

[sasaint]

Meh, Forbes' usage percentage is sixth on the team behind DeRozan, Aldridge, Gay, Belinelli and Mills. How much further down the list do you want Forbes to be? White will pass him soon so he'll probably end the season seventh. I don't see how that can be classified as over-aggressive.

Forbes is what he is: a one-dimensional shooter. That's all he's ever going to be. In today's NBA, such players are somewhat valuable but they have to actually shoot the ball. For a counter example, Cunningham has hit half his threes but that doesn't translate to value because he doesn't shoot enough.

I'm not a huge Forbes fan, I don't view him as a long-term starter and I acknowledge he played poorly tonight but I don't have an issue with how much he shoots the ball. If anything, he needs to shoot even more to increase his value. There's really no other way for him to increase his value given his physical limitations. He has a better true shooting percentage than Aldridge or DeRozan and in a vacuum, you take an open Forbes shot over either of those two shooting.

If Forbes shot as often as Kyle Anderson, he wouldn't make it in the WNBA given the rest of his attributes :lol


DDR is shooting like crap and playing more than him.

Forbes has had excellent games. Rodeo trip was shit for everybody (to me it all depends on DDR but that's me and not Pop, obviously he trusts him and is a HOF so he must be right). Once movement starts again being part of the offense, Forbes will again be hitting threes and going nicely to the basket on closeouts. Same for Beli.

White, Dijon, Mills, Forbes, Marco, and (hopefully) LWIV are a potentially first-rate backcourt group. We MUST move DDR and reallocate his salary.

[pad300]

Mills, Forbes and Marco are all on my to replace list - terrible defenders who give back whatever offensive value they bring...

[offset formation]

Tonight epitomized why I feel he's a cancer to this team and one of the biggest reasons why we're such a mediocre team. It isn't his defense, which even his biggest defenders here like Chinook acknowledge is his biggest flaw.

No for me, it's his over-aggressiveness on offense. If we all acknowledge he's a role player who's only starting because Murray is injured and "spaces the floor" why does he continually get off as many or more shots as our 3 best players in LMA, DeMar, and Gay? He was 2-14 tonight while DeMar was 9-14 and Gay 5-9. It's not just looking at the box score, anyone can see these games and see that Forbes is selfish on offense and has atrocious offensive awareness. He needs to know to pass the ball.

It baffles me how LJ praises Forbes for not being scared to shoot when to me, it's that aggressiveness that is to the team's detriment as LMA gets less touches, relegates Gay to spectator, and keeps DeMar, our best ball handler despite his fuckup against the Raptors, away from making plays. Truth is, his aggressive shooting isn't a thing to be celebrated. We'd be better off with a more passive Forbes if Pop insists on starting him the rest of the way. He should only take open shots as a last resort and never get more than 9 shots in a game. That's what I liked about Kyle Anderson. He knew his limitations and played to his strengths while knowing to facilitate offense to more capable players. Even Bonner, who when he started as a "floor spacer" knew not to jack up shots willy nilly.

Nothing gets on my skin in this game more than a player who thinks he's better than he is. And that's where we are with Forbes, who has fallen for Pop's infamous comparison to Curry. Pop talks about players needing to be over themselves, well what about Forbes? Now HE isn't over himself, Pop. The sooner we're rid of him as a starter, the better this team will be. You can point out other flaws in this heavily flawed team but not enough is said about Forbes being a big reason for what ails them, IMO. I look forward to the team improving over him in the offseason.

Demar is **not** the Surs best ball handler. By far. He's routinely picked. Constantly misdribbles. Loses control of the ball with regularity.

I've been very disappointed with his ball control.

Our best ball handler? Hell, give me DWhite, Patty, Rudy, Marco, even Forbes.

Laughable that Demar is our best ball handler.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

White needs to shoot more than Forbes. Every single game. Bertans also needs to shoot more than Forbes every single game. Though that one is on coaching. Pop needs to draw up some midrange looks for Bertans and have him run off double screens. Bertans should never be stationary in his 25 minutes of play.

[KDKSpurs24]

Demar is **not** the Surs best ball handler. By far. He's routinely picked. Constantly misdribbles. Loses control of the ball with regularity.

I've been very disappointed with his ball control.

Our best ball handler? Hell, give me DWhite, Patty, Rudy, Marco, even Forbes.

Laughable that Demar is our best ball handler.
Rudy can’t dribble. Take him off. Routinely fumbles the ball.

[duncan2150]

I wanted to start a thread about him about a month ago but i let him some games to see..... he's such a liability on defense and what i don't understand is him playing nearly 30 minutes a game and that's on pop.

He was pretty good offensively during three months but you can't play him 30 minutes maybe 15 for some 3's. For the last month he's shooting 37% on 2's and 32% on 3's, that's pretty bad ( under 30 % and 14% on 3's last two weeks) especially if you considers that's his main and almost strenght.

[DaBears]

Bryntouchable works very hard. Have you heard that Pop thinks every shot he takes is going in?

LOL.... So does every opposing Guard's shot, When Forbes is guarding them.

[BackHome]

It’s not Forbes fault it’s Poop and RC for making him play to damn much I blame them

[duncan2150]

It’s not Forbes fault it’s Poop and RC for making him play to damn much I blame them

I totally agree with you . Imo it's a shame that he is playing 30 minutes a night ( 28.9 exactly)..... and that's 100% on Pop.

[RD2191]

It’s not Forbes fault it’s Poop and RC for making him play to damn much I blame them

Pretty much this. Forbes is a good value player. Playing way too many minutes though due to this garbage roster.

[Spurs fever]

I think Pop encourages him to shoot. I think he'd be a nice player for the team with reduce minutes.

[Strategic]

At 6’3” Forbes has enough size to be a perimeter defender but he sucks at it. I haven’t seen any D improvement. His offensive suction just adds another layer. Cherry on top is he will be 26 this summer. Generic syrup sucks

[John B]

The only reason he’s starting and shooting as it is because of the lack of personnel. Comes Murray, he’ll be back to 2nd unit, hopefully. It’s Belli I have problems. Very careless and somewhat doesn’t care about playing D. At least Forbes and Mills try, just really too short.

[sammy]

Tonight epitomized why I feel he's a cancer to this team and one of the biggest reasons why we're such a mediocre team. It isn't his defense, which even his biggest defenders here like Chinook acknowledge is his biggest flaw.

No for me, it's his over-aggressiveness on offense. If we all acknowledge he's a role player who's only starting because Murray is injured and "spaces the floor" why does he continually get off as many or more shots as our 3 best players in LMA, DeMar, and Gay? He was 2-14 tonight while DeMar was 9-14 and Gay 5-9. It's not just looking at the box score, anyone can see these games and see that Forbes is selfish on offense and has atrocious offensive awareness. He needs to know to pass the ball.

It baffles me how LJ praises Forbes for not being scared to shoot when to me, it's that aggressiveness that is to the team's detriment as LMA gets less touches, relegates Gay to spectator, and keeps DeMar, our best ball handler despite his fuckup against the Raptors, away from making plays. Truth is, his aggressive shooting isn't a thing to be celebrated. We'd be better off with a more passive Forbes if Pop insists on starting him the rest of the way. He should only take open shots as a last resort and never get more than 9 shots in a game. That's what I liked about Kyle Anderson. He knew his limitations and played to his strengths while knowing to facilitate offense to more capable players. Even Bonner, who when he started as a "floor spacer" knew not to jack up shots willy nilly.

Nothing gets on my skin in this game more than a player who thinks he's better than he is. And that's where we are with Forbes, who has fallen for Pop's infamous comparison to Curry. Pop talks about players needing to be over themselves, well what about Forbes? Now HE isn't over himself, Pop. The sooner we're rid of him as a starter, the better this team will be. You can point out other flaws in this heavily flawed team but not enough is said about Forbes being a big reason for what ails them, IMO. I look forward to the team improving over him in the offseason.

I agree! He's horrible! He plays No defense and should not be shooting unless he's open! The ball should go to LMA, Gay & DeRozen! I've always said they should trade this scrub!

[FkLA]

Who should start or get minutes over him? Murray's out for the year, White has been in and out, DeRozan needs time every now and then to deal with his depression. Nobody has ever said he is a 30 MPG guy or an unquestioned starter when the team is healthy. He makes 3 mill/yr and was obviously signed to play a much smaller role--not really his fault that a series of events has made him play a bigger role. Besides, he's filled in admirably most of the year, tbh.

[jjktkk]

Who should start or get minutes over him? Murray's out for the year, White has been in and out, DeRozan needs time every now and then to deal with his depression. Nobody has ever said he is a 30 MPG guy or an unquestioned starter when the team is healthy. He makes 3 mill/yr and was obviously signed to play a much smaller role--not really his fault that a series of events has made him play a bigger role. Besides, he's filled in admirably most of the year, tbh.

Stop making sense, you're going to piss off the Spurstalk vigilante faction on here.:lol

[MultiTroll]

Who should start or get minutes over him? Murray's out for the year, White has been in and out, DeRozan needs time every now and then to deal with his depression. Nobody has ever said he is a 30 MPG guy or an unquestioned starter when the team is healthy. He makes 3 mill/yr and was obviously signed to play a much smaller role--not really his fault that a series of events has made him play a bigger role. Besides, he's filled in admirably most of the year, tbh.
Would have rather seen RC do his pick-a-gem shot or sign a GLeager or something for minimum salary and one year only.
As is, the inevitable is just being postponed. Forbes is not good enough to be a Championship contributor and never will be. He's had some very admirable games for sure. But those games are like 15% of the time. Pops pipe dream of finding another Curry.

It's going to be another Fathead time investment where they spend 4 farking years only to end up releasing. Wayy less money for sure. Forbes is not gobbling up money but it's still going nowhere.

[NASpurs]

I think Pop encourages him to shoot. I think he'd be a nice player for the team with reduce minutes.

Pop encouraging him to play defense would be nice. The dude looks like he’s on skates.

[duncan2150]

Who should start or get minutes over him? Murray's out for the year, White has been in and out, DeRozan needs time every now and then to deal with his depression. Nobody has ever said he is a 30 MPG guy or an unquestioned starter when the team is healthy. He makes 3 mill/yr and was obviously signed to play a much smaller role--not really his fault that a series of events has made him play a bigger role. Besides, he's filled in admirably most of the year, tbh.

You can play Derozan as a SG and give more minutes to Bertans, Gay or Beli at SF. Beli or Mills are not that good but they are playing nearly 7 minutes/game less than Forbes. I agree it's not all his fault but defensively you can't play him 30 minutes and he's bad actually offensively so just give him a lesser role.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Who should start or get minutes over him? Murray's out for the year, White has been in and out, DeRozan needs time every now and then to deal with his depression. Nobody has ever said he is a 30 MPG guy or an unquestioned starter when the team is healthy. He makes 3 mill/yr and was obviously signed to play a much smaller role--not really his fault that a series of events has made him play a bigger role. Besides, he's filled in admirably most of the year, tbh.


You're right - there's really no choice now. It's not Forbes' fault, it's PATFO's fault. Forbes is a midget SG, just like Mills. Hell, Arcidiacono would be a better PG, and the Spurs had him for a min contract. Just like Dedmon would have given some legit interior defense and rebounding, and the Spurs could have had him for $6M, but pissed on him instead.

Pop really needs to go. In fact, what the Spurs organization really needs is an FO enema.

[TimDunkem]

I thought I'd never read shit like "an unathletic 6'3 shooting guard has the potential to be a great defender" on this website, but here we are...Dark times when you're trying to justify Charity Case getting 30 mpg.

[DPG21920]

Who should start or get minutes over him? Murray's out for the year, White has been in and out, DeRozan needs time every now and then to deal with his depression. Nobody has ever said he is a 30 MPG guy or an unquestioned starter when the team is healthy. He makes 3 mill/yr and was obviously signed to play a much smaller role--not really his fault that a series of events has made him play a bigger role. Besides, he's filled in admirably most of the year, tbh.

Spot on :tu. Forbes is an issue on the surface but it’s not his fault when evaluating things. He’s not been put in a spot to succeed. Spurs paid Mills to step up and he hasn’t. He should be starting over Forbes theoretically but he can’t.

The question isn’t about is Forbes shooting too much or too little; it’s about should SA have role players that are so limited. Or does SA have too many limited role players.

[Spurs da champs]

I thought I'd never read shit like "an unathletic 6'3 shooting guard has the potential to be a great defender" on this website, but here we are...Dark times when you're trying to justify Charity Case getting 30 mpg.
Forbes would kill to be 6'3.

[itzsoweezee]

I don't have a problem with Forbes. I think he's a good contact and a guy that can contribute. However, the role that has been assigned to him on this team is stupid. He should not be starting. The team would've been in a much better situation if it had schemed and coached around Bertans starting, and getting him a bunch of shots with the starting lineup. Look at the effort Brooklyn takes in getting Joe Harris shots compared with the Spurs. Davis basically gets shots only on fluke plays when there's a defensive breakdown and someone's feeling generous. Do the Spurs even run plays for Bertans? It seems like the game has just passed popovich by.

[Mugen]

Having a Mills, Forbes (even though I think he fucking sucks), or Beli on your roster isn't the end of the world...

The issue is when you have all 3 on your roster and they all get heavy minutes and the coach thinks playing them at the same time (alongside another terrible defender in Derozan) is a good idea :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

I was a big Forbes hater last year, but it's not his fault that the coach signed Marco Belinelli when he already had Mills and Forbes on the roster:lol Forbes could have been playing a minor role at the end of the rotation, which would be fine given his skill-set and contract..

[r0drig0lac]

Having a Mills, Forbes (even though I think he fucking sucks), or Beli on your roster isn't the end of the world...

The issue is when you have all 3 on your roster and they all get heavy minutes and the coach thinks playing them at the same time (alongside another terrible defender in Derozan) is a good idea :lol

Derozan must be full sg with the roster we currently have, have two of Mills, Forbes and Marco on the court at the same time, it is a disrespect with the other players

[Drom John]

ESPN Real Plus Minus

WINS
169 Tony Snell
170 Bryn Forbes
171 Ersan Ilyasova

RPM
282 Quincy Pondexter
283 Bryn Forbes
284 Jarred Vanderbilt

ORPM
109 T.J. Warren
110 Bryn Forbes
111 Mason Plumlee

DRPM
452 Trey Burke
453 Bryn Forbes
454 Wayne Selden

Just SGs
WINS
31 Tony Snell
32 Bryn Forbes
33 Kent Bazemore

RPM
45 Reggie Bullock
46 Bryn Forbes
47 Dwayne Bacon

ORPM
25 DeMar DeRozan
26 Bryn Forbes
27 Gary Harris

DRPM
88 Bradley Beal
89 Bryn Forbes
90 Wayne Selden

[El Santo]

We went from the twin towers to the midget towers with forbes and mills..

[ZeusWillJudge]

Having a Mills, Forbes (even though I think he fucking sucks), or Beli on your roster isn't the end of the world...

The issue is when you have all 3 on your roster and they all get heavy minutes and the coach thinks playing them at the same time (alongside another terrible defender in Derozan) is a good idea :lol


Having any one of them on the court without four other good defenders is bad enough. But two of them on the floor together? This team looks like the Washington Generals.

[SpurPadre]

Pretty much this. Forbes is a good value player. Playing way too many minutes though due to this garbage roster.


The only reason he’s starting and shooting as it is because of the lack of personnel. Comes Murray, he’ll be back to 2nd unit, hopefully. It’s Belli I have problems. Very careless and somewhat doesn’t care about playing D. At least Forbes and Mills try, just really too short.


Who should start or get minutes over him? Murray's out for the year, White has been in and out, DeRozan needs time every now and then to deal with his depression. Nobody has ever said he is a 30 MPG guy or an unquestioned starter when the team is healthy. He makes 3 mill/yr and was obviously signed to play a much smaller role--not really his fault that a series of events has made him play a bigger role. Besides, he's filled in admirably most of the year, tbh.

I keep seeing this rationale of Murray being hurt. Well, that happened before the season even began. Should teams just throw their arms up and say, "Oh well, nothing we can do about it now!" instead of addressing the weak area? Do you see how poorly Forbes is as a starter and not do anything about it, standing pat? Is that the solution? If every team did that, there would be no such thing as trades and every team would just wait in the offseason to improve a roster. Also, this whole bullshit about him being cheap isn't an argument to start him. It's not his fault "a series of events" have placed him in a bigger role than was originally planned, but it's his fault for being arrogant enough to take as many shots as your second best player on the team, who was shooting well in the game. And it isn't an isolated event. He pulls this shit routinely. He has one of the worst RPM of any starting guard in the league and considering his MPG, it's more of a detriment compared to other players with bad RPMs. As to who would start over him? Mills would be the lesser of two evils, tbh.

[Hoops Czar]

Who's apologizing for Forbes? It's not his fault he's being gifted an NBA career. It's the George Lucas - Lloyd Daniels situation all over again.

[dbestpro]

We still do not have a true SF on the team. It is crazy that the Spurs never addressed the issue. DDR is a SG. Gay and Bertans at this point play the PF better. We need a true SF that could play some defense instead placing Forbes into the lineup and moving players around. He does not need to be a star, just serviceable on defense.

[GreekSpursfan]

Everything start with your top paid players, worst 50 million duo ever. Forbes costs nothing. I only have a problem with the 50 miilion guys, Gasol and Mills. I dont even think of Forbes. He plays because Murray and Walker were Mr glass 2.0 and in theory he can stretch the floor(he can't). Two many holes that cost significantly more before i go to Forbes is all i'm trying to say.

[TD 21]

Dwarves do not have more space in the league as important pieces unless they are anomalies like Isaiah or Lou (which are two of the most versatile scorers in the league, especially in ISO), even Curry becomes exploitable in the playoffs and would be seen otherwise if do not play on an ultra stacked team in relation to the own competition (see 0 fmvps in 4 finals played). JJ Redick is a master of screens (and played with two of the game's best screeners in Joel and DeAndre), so he can be useful.

Shooters in 2019 must be guys that can not be exploited defensively, they do not need to have 50% 3pt peaks,they just need to be "non-exploitable" enough not to return all of their offensive production on the other side of the court. the best current examples are Joe Harris and Ladry Shamet, who have size and can shoot better than most dwarves in the league.

:tu

[SpurPadre]

Everything start with your top paid players, worst 50 million duo ever. Forbes costs nothing. I only have a problem with the 50 miilion guys, Gasol and Mills. I dont even think of Forbes. He plays because Murray and Walker were Mr glass 2.0 and in theory he can stretch the floor(he can't). Two many holes that cost significantly more before i go to Forbes is all i'm trying to say.

Yeah, this whole "Forbes is cheap and Murray is injured" excuse doesn't hold water. A plan B in dealing with injuries has to be better than Forbes. You don't throw your arms up in the air and settle for less when you're a proud, Championship franchise. Forbes costs nothing but produces nothing and you can't have such an empty void chucking shots he has no business taking on a roster with 2 All-Star caliber players.

[MultiTroll]

Yeah, this whole "Forbes is cheap and Murray is injured" excuse doesn't hold water. A plan B in dealing with injuries has to be better than Forbes. You don't throw your arms up in the air and settle for less when you're a proud, Championship franchise. Forbes costs nothing but produces nothing and you can't have such an empty void chucking shots he has no business taking on a roster with 2 All-Star caliber players.
This.
And with tons of players trying to make an NBA roster, doing the charity thing with Forbes is bullshit.

[sasaint]

We still do not have a true SF on the team. It is crazy that the Spurs never addressed the issue. DDR is a SG. Gay and Bertans at this point play the PF better. We need a true SF that could play some defense instead placing Forbes into the lineup and moving players around. He does not need to be a star, just serviceable on defense.
:tu

Everything start with your top paid players, worst 50 million duo ever. Forbes costs nothing. I only have a problem with the 50 miilion guys, Gasol and Mills. I dont even think of Forbes. He plays because Murray and Walker were Mr glass 2.0 and in theory he can stretch the floor(he can't). Two many holes that cost significantly more before i go to Forbes is all i'm trying to say.
:tu

[Hoops Czar]

Forbes costs nothing but produces nothing and you can't have such an empty void chucking shots he has no business taking on a roster with 2 All-Star caliber players.
This. You get what you pay for. Forbes is barely functional. When he isn't knocking down jumpshots, he's beyond useless. Just because he's cheap doesn't mean he deserves a roster spot.

[FkLA]

I keep seeing this rationale of Murray being hurt. Well, that happened before the season even began. Should teams just throw their arms up and say, "Oh well, nothing we can do about it now!" instead of addressing the weak area? Do you see how poorly Forbes is as a starter and not do anything about it, standing pat? Is that the solution? If every team did that, there would be no such thing as trades and every team would just wait in the offseason to improve a roster. Also, this whole bullshit about him being cheap isn't an argument to start him. It's not his fault "a series of events" have placed him in a bigger role than was originally planned, but it's his fault for being arrogant enough to take as many shots as your second best player on the team, who was shooting well in the game. And it isn't an isolated event. He pulls this shit routinely. He has one of the worst RPM of any starting guard in the league and considering his MPG, it's more of a detriment compared to other players with bad RPMs. As to who would start over him? Mills would be the lesser of two evils, tbh.

-The Spurs rarely make trades, especially during the season. Yeah it sucks and it's frustrating but how exactly is that on Forbes?
-Mills has good synergy with the bench unit. Why disrupt that just because of your deep rooted hatred for Forbes?
-Who said him being cheap makes him a good starter? Ideally, he should have taken Paddy's spot for a fraction of the cost.
-timvp already pointed out that he's currently 6th in usage percentage and will finish 7th by the end of the year. Yeah, he shoots too much some games (you can say the same for every other player) but overall he's right around where he should be.

[gambit1990]

was never a fan. glad he upped his trade value but the deadline has passed...

[FkLA]

Also, he has produced plenty. Cherry picking recent bad games to say he hasn't produced at all is weak. It's also really pointless and dumb to have so much negative stuff to say about an 8th-10th man that makes so little. It's like when people used to have it out so bad for Bonner. These dudes aren't the reason the Spurs suck. They're really insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

[GreekSpursfan]

Yeah, this whole "Forbes is cheap and Murray is injured" excuse doesn't hold water. A plan B in dealing with injuries has to be better than Forbes. You don't throw your arms up in the air and settle for less when you're a proud, Championship franchise. Forbes costs nothing but produces nothing and you can't have such an empty void chucking shots he has no business taking on a roster with 2 All-Star caliber players.

When you say we have 2 all star caliber players that's where our argument ends. I believe we have none.

[GreekSpursfan]

Also, he has produced plenty. Cherry picking recent bad games to say he hasn't produced at all is weak. It's also really pointless and dumb to have so much negative stuff to say about an 8th-10th man that makes so little. It's like when people used to have it out so bad for Bonner. These dudes aren't the reason the Spurs suck. They're really insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

I usually don't praise other members here but whenever i read any of your stuff you usually know what you're talking about even when i slightly disagree. Top 5 poster here. In this case i agree 100%.

[ZeusWillJudge]

This. You get what you pay for. Forbes is barely functional. When he isn't knocking down jumpshots, he's beyond useless. Just because he's cheap doesn't mean he deserves a roster spot.


People justifying Forbes because he's cheap should be neutered before they have a chance to reproduce. There are a couple hundred players in the G-League that would play for half of what Forbes is getting. Winning teams don't get their players at Goodwill.

[GreekSpursfan]

Again, Forbes coming out of college had not just good but very good stats as it pertains to 3pt shooting. It's pretty obvious that their whole thought process was based on that and that he could develop into a reliable shooter, so far he hasn't done it. You don't go and pick whoever from the g-league and give him a spot, you collect data from his college career based on your needs and you go from there. Everyone can't pan out.

[MultiTroll]

It's like when people used to have it out so bad for Bonner. These dudes aren't the reason the Spurs suck. They're really insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
Matt Bonner started 5 playoff games in 2009. We lost that 1st Round series 4-1.
Bonner shot .217 and .231 for an efg of .283%

Players like Bonner and Forbes are extremely bad to have and very significant when the coaching is in the hands of CIA Pop.

[TimDunkem]

Who's apologizing for Forbes? It's not his fault he's being gifted an NBA career. It's the George Lucas - Lloyd Daniels situation all over again.

This is why I call him Charity Case. Pop probably heard about the baby mama drama and gave him the contract because he likes him and is good in practice.

[SpurPadre]

Also, he has produced plenty. Cherry picking recent bad games to say he hasn't produced at all is weak. It's also really pointless and dumb to have so much negative stuff to say about an 8th-10th man that makes so little. It's like when people used to have it out so bad for Bonner. These dudes aren't the reason the Spurs suck. They're really insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

He took 14 shots last night, the same amount as DeRozan and 5 more than Gay. That's not insignificant. And he has the most minutes played amongst negative net rating players. Also not insignificant.

[SpurPadre]

When you say we have 2 all star caliber players that's where our argument ends. I believe we have none.

You might want to check LMA's and DeRozan's track record. You're basing this one season on DeMar's proven All Star ability? And LMA on his way to 34 is still one of the best bigs in the league. If you don't see that, then yeah, you can't really proceed in this fact-based discussion.

[SpurPadre]

Again, Forbes coming out of college had not just good but very good stats as it pertains to 3pt shooting. It's pretty obvious that their whole thought process was based on that and that he could develop into a reliable shooter, so far he hasn't done it. You don't go and pick whoever from the g-league and give him a spot, you collect data from his college career based on your needs and you go from there. Everyone can't pan out.

There was a reason why he went undrafted, tbh.

[superbigtime]

He stinks and ain't no fun to watch lately, that's for sure.

[Coach X]

Popovich loves him because of his character, work ethic, coachability, and shooting but sooner or later will have to admit the boy is too short and can't play defense as a starter. Brynn Forbes isn't an NBA starter caliber player, he's possibly not even a valid rotation player unless a there is a big back up point guard next to him. There are players who develop their potential in San Antonio and help the Spurs, and there are players the Spurs help and develop.

The boy has to be something else in Popovich's mind. I can't understand how many opportunities and credit he has been given compared to other players. It took three years for Bertans to get regularly into the rotation. White was benched several times this season just a few days after recovering after his first injury. Poetl has already been sent to the dog house several times. Same with Murray last year. How long took Splitter or CoJo to have regular playing time? Forbes is a worst player than any of them but he's playing more minutes than any of them, moreover, he has the green light to shoot. Despite having horrible games both defensively and offensively.

I can understand the kid's behavior is excellent but this is professional basketball and the rest of our players are all good professionals as well. He has had enough time to show what can he do and everybody has seen it's not enough. Forbes doesn't have any potental, he isn't a veteran and doesn't have any particularly valuable experience or career credit to continue giving him the role he currently has in the team. This Pop's predilection is unfair for other players and isn't helping the team to win at all.

[FkLA]

He took 14 shots last night, the same amount as DeRozan and 5 more than Gay. That's not insignificant. And he has the most minutes played amongst negative net rating players. Also not insignificant.

1. Cherry picking. That point has already been addressed.
2. Not his fault his role is as big as it is. Has also been addressed.

[JeffDuncan]

Popovich loves him because of his character, work ethic, coachability, ...

Except, where is the coaching in Forbes' case? He doesn't look like he's ever been coached to play defense.

He constantly steps the wrong direction, he hardly ever anticipates correctly, he seems to be a second late on everything, and nearly everything that happens seems to surprise him. Competent coaching should correct at least some of that, unless he really is no smarter than a tadpole.

I don't think the Spurs coaching has been any good this year, for the team overall, or at the individual level either.

[TimDunkem]

There was a reason why he went undrafted, tbh.

FO slurpers will say that only the Spurs FO knew he was a hidden gem.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Shooters shoot. He doesn’t really bring any other value to the Spurs. I play better team defense than he does. I think everyone in the NBA does. He’d be fine in the sparkplug 11th man role. As a significant contributor he just doesn’t have it.

[FkLA]

Matt Bonner started 5 playoff games in 2009. We lost that 1st Round series 4-1.
Bonner shot .217 and .231 for an efg of .283%

Players like Bonner and Forbes are extremely bad to have and very significant when the coaching is in the hands of CIA Pop.

That's a roster construction/coaching decision/iniury issue not an issue with the players themselves. If they were brought in to be significant contributors (given big contracts) then I'd understand but that was never the case for Bonner and it isn't the case for Forbes.

[TimDunkem]

He's no better than a 12th man. The Steve Novak of today's midget SGs.

[slick'81]

Pop has given forbes alot of leash.Should he still be starting ?is the general question i guess

[duncan2k5]

I told you guys so about Forbes... But u all were caught up in the moment... The guy is absolute ass

[SpurPadre]

1. Cherry picking. That point has already been addressed.
2. Not his fault his role is as big as it is. Has also been addressed.

You're contradicting yourself. After claiming I'm cherry picking you fallback to the apologist take that it's not his fault his role is as big as it is. You can't have it both ways and say his role is insignificant after seeing that he has the most minutes played among negative net rating players. Furthermore, the MAIN point is that whether you want to apologize for him and blame injuries, the fact remains that he has no business on a starting lineup for a team vying for the playoffs and extending their longest streak in league history.

[FkLA]

You're contradicting yourself. After claiming I'm cherry picking you fallback to the apologist take that it's not his fault his role is as big as it is. You can't have it both ways and say his role is insignificant after seeing that he has the most minutes played among negative net rating players. Furthermore, the MAIN point is that whether you want to apologize for him and blame injuries, the fact remains that he has no business on a starting lineup for a team vying for the playoffs and extending their longest streak in league history.

The point is going over your head. He doesn't cost the Spurs any flexibility financially and he shouldn't see this many minutes with a healthy Murray+White. Is he playing a significant role this year out of necessity? Sure but that doesn't mean he's a significant reason why the Spurs suck (injuries, nephew, roster construction, Mill+Gasol contracts are all wayyyyy bigger reasons).

[SpurPadre]

The point is going over your head. He doesn't cost the Spurs any flexibility financially and he shouldn't see this many minutes with a healthy Murray+White. Is he playing a significant role this year out of necessity? Sure but that doesn't mean he's a significant reason why the Spurs suck (injuries, nephew, roster construction, Mill+Gasol contracts are all wayyyyy bigger reasons).

No, it's going over YOUR head. I already made a point out of stating that the financial excuse is just that, an excuse, a copout. There was no plan B after Murray went down and PATFO simply went with a subpar player starting for the rest of the season. And the fact that he's logging close to 30 minutes a game and taking many shots a game is one of many key reasons we suck. You're also moving the goal post, tbh.

[FkLA]

No, it's going over YOUR head. I already made a point out of stating that the financial excuse is just that, an excuse, a copout. There was no plan B after Murray went down and PATFO simply went with a subpar player starting for the rest of the season. And the fact that he's logging close to 30 minutes a game and taking many shots a game is one of many key reasons we suck. You're also moving the goal post, tbh.

In what way am I moving goal posts? :lol

"There was no plan B after Murray went down" ...that is Forbes' fault how?

You act like the Spurs would go back to relevancy if Forbes wasn't playing. We stopped being legit contenders way before the injuries and before Forbes started playing 30 MPG. Reason #1 is nephew. A couple other reasons are the Pau+Paddy contracts, giving up Danny Green, wasting a good portion of the MLE to bring in Belli instead of bringing in perimeter defense, not getting Anunoby/Siakam in the trade, DeRozan being who we thought he was. A $3 mill/yr guy not being a legitimate starter is the least of our worries.

[SpurPadre]

In what way am I moving goal posts? :lol

"There was no plan B after Murray went down" ...that is Forbes' fault how?

You act like the Spurs would go back to relevancy if Forbes wasn't playing. We stopped being legit contenders way before the injuries and before Forbes started playing 30 MPG. Reason #1 is nephew. A couple other reasons are the Pau+Paddy contracts, giving up Danny Green, wasting a good portion of the MLE to bring in Belli instead of bringing in perimeter defense, not getting Anunoby/Siakam in the trade, DeRozan being who we thought he was. A $3 mill/yr guy not being a legitimate starter is the least of our worries.

You're moving goal posts because you initially stated that Forbes doesn't bring anything of significance that is harmful to the team. I countered that with numbers that refutes that he's an insignificant part of the team. You then fall back on the "it's not his fault, Murray was injured" bullshit and I point out how that argument is neither here nor there. He still has a job to do and he's doing it miserably. If my boss gave me added responsibility and promoted me to a position I have no experience in, sure I can blame him when I fuck up but I also have a role to play and actually LEARN how to improve at the role I was given. As it is, he has the worst PER, RPM, BPM, and VORP among the starters and is among the worst in those areas in the whole team all while having the 3rd most minutes played in the team. He isn't simply someone who's laying low innocently and to think otherwise is being an apologist determined to protect him.

[FkLA]

You're moving goal posts because you initially stated that Forbes doesn't bring anything of significance that is harmful to the team. I countered that with numbers that refutes that he's an insignificant part of the team.

I have the biggest urge to call you a dumbass but I won't because you're a fellow Mexican.

You're completely misinterpreting what I meant. Calling him insignificant doesn't mean he isn't currently getting big minutes. I said he is insignificant in the grand scheme of things and explained how that is the case in a couple of my other posts (including the one you quoted).


You then fall back on the "it's not his fault, Murray was injured" bullshit and I point out how that argument is neither here nor there. He still has a job to do and he's doing it miserably.

He hasn't done it miserably. Overall he's done pretty well all things considered. Regardless though, even if we go along and pretend he has been miserable it's unfair to fault him for not making the jump from an end of the bench guy to legitimate starter in a span of a few months. :lol



If my boss gave me added responsibility and promoted me to a position I have no experience in, sure I can blame him when I fuck up but I also have a role to play and actually LEARN how to improve at the role I was given.

It's actually more like if you're not that smart, were never meant to be in a leadership position but your boss dies and you're thrown into the fire. You don't get a raise either. Then you get shit from people for not being as good as the old boss who was actually competent.


As it is, he has the worst PER, RPM, BPM, and VORP among the starters and is among the worst in those areas in the whole team all while having the 3rd most minutes played in the team. He isn't simply someone who's laying low innocently and to think otherwise is being an apologist determined to protect him.

Terrible argument.

Get the pitchforks because he's not as good as 3 former Top 10 picks who have a bunch of all-star selections and 20 PPG season under their belt! Get the pitchforks because he isn't as good as the great White!

He probably has the 3rd most minutes because he's been healthy all year and White+Gay (who are clearly better) haven't. But that wouldn't fit your agenda so you conveniently leave it out.

[BlackAndWhite]

He got hurt

[slick'81]

Our 3 million dollar savior is doooown

[timtonymanu]

The point is going over your head. He doesn't cost the Spurs any flexibility financially and he shouldn't see this many minutes with a healthy Murray+White. Is he playing a significant role this year out of necessity? Sure but that doesn't mean he's a significant reason why the Spurs suck (injuries, nephew, roster construction, Mill+Gasol contracts are all wayyyyy bigger reasons).

:tu

It was brought up in the thread earlier but it’s way more annoying that Mills gets paid 12 million a year to barely match Forbes’s current production. Padre will cite Mills being more playoff ready and whatever but let’s be honest Mills was trash in the playoffs sans 2014 and the first round series against the Clips in 2015.

[stu scotts eye]

Somewhere in my short post history I also was never a long term fan of Forbes. I recall when he and Mills started at the beginning of the year. Yuck for defense

[$pursDynasty]

The real question is, are there any Patty apologists left??? Where the hell is Dabom? Even he can't defend Patty's putrid play.

[GusT15]

The real question is, are there any Patty apologists left??? Where the hell is Dabom? Even he can't defend Patty's putrid play.

I think Dabom pissed off LJ so much with his stupidity he might have gotten himself IP banned.

[SAGirl]

I wanted to start a thread about him about a month ago but i let him some games to see..... he's such a liability on defense and what i don't understand is him playing nearly 30 minutes a game and that's on pop.

He was pretty good offensively during three months but you can't play him 30 minutes maybe 15 for some 3's. For the last month he's shooting 37% on 2's and 32% on 3's, that's pretty bad ( under 30 % and 14% on 3's last two weeks) especially if you considers that's his main and almost strenght.

I have been saying for a long time he could give you a spark in 15 minutes when you need shooting. He's just playing too many minutes right now and is being relied on for too much. A good part of that is injury but it's also been on Pop. They clearly felt he was their man since last year where he also had stretches when he was overplayed. I'd love to have him at his salary in a more limited role/minutes but have hated him getting overplayed.