Talented DeMar

[MaNu4Tres]

Impact statistics:

Last year, Spurs were +5.6 points better against the opposition per 100 possessions last year when Dejounte was on the court.

This year, Spurs are +7.4 points better per 100 possessions when Derrick is on the court.

This year, Spurs are -6.4 points worse per 100 possessions when DeMar is on the floor.

This factors in both the offensive and defensive rating for the team when the specific player is on/off the court.

Note: Derrick has shared court w/ DeMar for 762 minutes this season.

DeMar has always been a very overrated player, due to the perception behind the pretty PPG statistic. Casuals and average fans love to use that stat as a barometer when assessing how good a player is.

Spurs would be better off on both ends by trading him this summer and spreading out his 20.7 possessions a game to Derrick, Dejounte, Gay( ?). All are more than capable to fulfill that workload and they would probably manufacture more efficient offense ( Spurs have a 116 ORTG w him off/111.6 w him on. Spurs also have higher eFG as a team w him off). The defense would be better as well.

I hope the Spurs consider moving him, and one or two of the Belinelli, Mills, Forbes trio moving forward.

Give some much needed leg room to Derrick, Dejounte, and Lonnie.

[Genovaswitness]

derozan is such a stupid faggot

[TD 21]

All the recent change has probably unerved them (and we know it did him) to such a degree that I suspect we'll see very little change this off season, no matter whether they squeak into the playoff or not.

Other than Gasol, Cunningham, Pondexter and possibly Forbes, I expect the rest of the roster to be retained. They'll point to whatever wing they bring in, Murray, Walker and continuity as reasons for optimism.

Unfortunately, there's probably a way better chance of DeRozan opting out in '20 and re-signing for something similar to Aldridge's extension than there is them moving on from him.

[sasaint]

All the recent change has probably unerved them (and we know it did him) to such a degree that I suspect we'll see very little change this off season, no matter whether they squeak into the playoff or not.

Other than Gasol, Cunningham, Pondexter and possibly Forbes, I expect the rest of the roster to be retained. They'll point to whatever wing they bring in, Murray, Walker and continuity as reasons for optimism.

Unfortunately, there's probably a way better chance of DeRozan opting out in '20 and re-signing for something similar to Aldridge's extension than there is them moving on from him.

This is probably true, and it makes me feel a profound sense of anger and sadness.

[Dverde]

Only way Demar is leaving is making a trade request. Trading him would be our front office admitting the trade was a mistake. I still have hope for him, but it’s beginning to erode.

[DPG21920]

Only way Demar is leaving is making a trade request. Trading him would be our front office admitting the trade was a mistake. I still have hope for him, but it’s beginning to erode.

I disagree with that. Sure, some people may see it that way, but not all. Whatever they get for DeRozan will be viewed as the haul for Kawhi.

I think many people knew SA tried to get the best package and part of that was getting valuable assets. If DeRozan is traded for something perceived to be valuable, then people will change their minds on what the Spurs got for Kawhi.

[objective]

Nobody wants DeRozan. They probably couldn't even trade him into capspace, they'd have to add a pick for a team to take the non-all-star.

His offense fits nowhere and is a bad defender.

Going to have to wait him out like Pau.

[phxspurfan]

This +/- analysis is very flawed. It would lead idiots to field teams of opportunistic role players like Boban (who got hurt after playing like 10 minutes last night :lol) and Bonner, over guys who can actually ball like DeMar. Sure, he doesn't play defense, but LeBron doesn't either. That doesn't mean you fucking bench LeBron, dumbass. Go back to managing your fantasy team and leave coaching to the experts.

[GreekSpursfan]

OP is right but we can't move him this summer because his contract is terrible, next summer maybe.

[timtonymanu]

:lol at PATFO actually making changes. They’ll just sit on their hands like always

[tbdog]

All the recent change has probably unerved them (and we know it did him) to such a degree that I suspect we'll see very little change this off season, no matter whether they squeak into the playoff or not.

Other than Gasol, Cunningham, Pondexter and possibly Forbes, I expect the rest of the roster to be retained. They'll point to whatever wing they bring in, Murray, Walker and continuity as reasons for optimism.

Unfortunately, there's probably a way better chance of DeRozan opting out in '20 and re-signing for something similar to Aldridge's extension than there is them moving on from him.

Also, Forbes, Beli, Bertans, and Gasol's partial expiry are all very tradable this off season. Player like Aaron Gordon can be obtained by adding 3 of those contracts.

[MaNu4Tres]

Nobody wants DeRozan. They probably couldn't even trade him into capspace, they'd have to add a pick for a team to take the non-all-star.

His offense fits nowhere and is a bad defender.

Going to have to wait him out like Pau.

I bet Charlotte and desperate MJ would take him to pair with Kemba.

[Slippy]

The eye test has been tellng me this for awhile. His iso-ball mid range game has too many teammates standing still and no ball movement. Standing still means easy to cover and lack of ball movement lead to zero confusion for opposin players. His TOs are usually out to the heavily guarded perimeter so many result in easy transition baskets the way.

Advanced stats is flawed but they can help backup what your eyes see on the court. For me, Demar hurting the teams offense/pace is clear as day.

[gambit1990]

PATFO deserve this shit season... trading for demar, wtf :lol

[gambit1990]

the good news is no contract is immovable... the bad news is that PATFO would care too much about where they’d send demar :rolleyes

[alpha_HaZE]

Impact statistics:

Last year, Spurs were +5.6 points better against the opposition per 100 possessions last year when Dejounte was on the court.

This year, Spurs are +7.4 points better per 100 possessions when Derrick is on the court.

This year, Spurs are -6.4 points worse per 100 possessions when DeMar is on the floor.

This factors in both the offensive and defensive rating for the team when the specific player is on/off the court.

Note: Derrick has shared court w/ DeMar for 762 minutes this season.

DeMar has always been a very overrated player, due to the perception behind the pretty PPG statistic. Casuals and average fans love to use that stat as a barometer when assessing how good a player is.

Spurs would be better off on both ends by trading him this summer and spreading out his 20.7 possessions a game to Derrick, Dejounte, Gay( ?). All are more than capable to fulfill that workload and they would probably manufacture more efficient offense ( Spurs have a 116 ORTG w him off/111.6 w him on. Spurs also have higher eFG as a team w him off). The defense would be better as well.

I hope the Spurs consider moving him, and one or two of the Belinelli, Mills, Forbes trio moving forward.

Give some much needed leg room to Derrick, Dejounte, and Lonnie.

1. can you give us a reference on where you got these numbers?

2. say your computations are correct, how does that prove anything? Last year, we had a pretty good defensive squad with DJ, Danny, and Kyle. This year we don't.

[TD 21]

Nobody wants DeRozan. They probably couldn't even trade him into capspace, they'd have to add a pick for a team to take the non-all-star.

His offense fits nowhere and is a bad defender.

Going to have to wait him out like Pau.

Hornets, Pistons, possibly Grizzlies, Magic.

The problem is, they wouldn't get enough value to save face. The Hornets supposedly offered a lottery protected 1st (deal supposedly fell apart over the protection), Kidd-Gilchrist and Biyombo for Gasol. I know DeRozan is 4 years younger and plays a less saturated position, but they probably wouldn't go much further than that.

The Pistons supposedly offered Jackson and a 1st for Conley, while supposedly balking at including Kennard . . . and Conley, though older, less durable, more expensive and playing a more saturated position, is better than DeRozan.

[Slippy]

There's 2 misconceptions about Demar that also hurts the spurs offense.

His passing abiltiy is better than advertised but his handles arn't. Too loose and too often fumbles when there's pressure leading to a TO.

The other is that he's a standout mid-range shooter. Again, he ain't, not even close to LA's ability. He's streaky as hell and opposing guards are backing off even at the keyway to see if he ON or not. Read Timvp latest grades on why it so important for him to keep shooting. More reason why this guy shouldn't be iniating or making plays with the ball.

[superbigtime]

Also not as good at getting to line and knocking down FTs as advertised. surly bitch.

[monty4329]

This +/- analysis is very flawed. It would lead idiots to field teams of opportunistic role players like Boban (who got hurt after playing like 10 minutes last night :lol) and Bonner, over guys who can actually ball like DeMar. Sure, he doesn't play defense, but LeBron doesn't either. That doesn't mean you fucking bench LeBron, dumbass. Go back to managing your fantasy team and leave coaching to the experts.

I agree, DDR is in the same sentence as LeBron. Sure.

[monty4329]

There's 2 misconceptions about Demar that also hurts the spurs offense.

His passing abiltiy is better than advertised but his handles arn't. Too loose and too often fumbles when there's pressure leading to a TO.

The other is that he's a standout mid-range shooter. Again, he ain't, not even close to LA's ability. He's streaky as hell and opposing guards are backing off even at the keyway to see if he ON or not. Read Timvp latest grades on why it so important for him to keep shooting. More reason why this guy shouldn't be iniating or making plays with the ball.

DDR problem is NOT his basketball. The issue is the attitude. He obviously has zero interest in playing team basketball, he cares only about his stats. The body language is so irritating that Westbrook's misgivings pale in camparison.

He needs to be benched and to go. I could understand 15-18 minutes off the bench, but he would be even a bigger crybaby in that case. Cancer.

[MannyIsGod]

I have to admit that while I was singing DeMar's praises the way he was playing earlier in the season, after the first Toronto game DeMar has been fairly awful and a completely different player. I'm not completely sold that he can't succeed here because early in the year, he was doing just that. Maybe the best outcome would be for DeMar to accept a role as a sixth man eventually. I don't think it matters if that happens this year because of our utter lack of a replacement as a starter, but maybe going forward as this team will get more guard/swing options.

I'm fine with trading him depending on what they get back but I haven't fully given up on him yet. Maybe it is in large part a mental thing with him. Maybe teams just figured out what the Spurs are doing. I don't know but it is very different from earlier this year and it sucks.

[TDMVPDPOY]

I have to admit that while I was singing DeMar's praises the way he was playing earlier in the season, after the first Toronto game DeMar has been fairly awful and a completely different player. I'm not completely sold that he can't succeed here because early in the year, he was doing just that. Maybe the best outcome would be for DeMar to accept a role as a sixth man eventually. I don't think it matters if that happens this year because of our utter lack of a replacement as a starter, but maybe going forward as this team will get more guard/swing options.

I'm fine with trading him depending on what they get back but I haven't fully given up on him yet. Maybe it is in large part a mental thing with him. Maybe teams just figured out what the Spurs are doing. I don't know but it is very different from earlier this year and it sucks.

trading him means, u must add other shit contracts on the team also since they are also hard to get rid of...

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'll be interested to see what happens this off season. Kawhi changed the direction of the organization, and while the Spurs don't always react quickly, they (usually) long-term plan intelligently. I think this season's struggles will definitely spur some change this off season.

I agree with those that say that the Spurs won't be opposed to moving Demar if it ends up making sense for the team moving forward.

[monty4329]

I'll be interested to see what happens this off season. Kawhi changed the direction of the organization, and while the Spurs don't always react quickly, they (usually) long-term plan intelligently. I think this season's struggles will definitely spur some change this off season.

I agree with those that say that the Spurs won't be opposed to moving Demar if it ends up making sense for the team moving forward.

It mostly depends on Pop, if he stays or if he goes. If he retires from coaching the Spurs, then all options are on the table. If they decide to acquiesce to Pop and do the politically correct thing -hire Becky- the Spurs will be on national TV every week even with an abysmal record, hence delaying for years being competitive. Hope not.

[sananspursfan21]

:lol at PATFO actually making changes. They’ll just sit on their hands like always

I so badly want to disagree with this

[Drom John]

Not the same numbers but NBA.com NetRtg has the Spurs at:

+6.3 Davis Bertans
+3.8 Derrick White
+3.6 Rudy Gay
+2.8 Patty Mills
-0.2 LaMarcus Aldridge
-1.4 Marco Belinelli
-1.9 DeMar DeRozan
-2.8 Bryn Forbes
-8.6 Dante Cunningham

[RC_Drunkford]

DeRozan is the new Melo. Live with it

[bic50]

DDR problem is NOT his basketball. The issue is the attitude. He obviously has zero interest in playing team basketball, he cares only about his stats. The body language is so irritating that Westbrook's misgivings pale in camparison.

He needs to be benched and to go. I could understand 15-18 minutes off the bench, but he would be even a bigger crybaby in that case. Cancer.
I believe that demar doesn't want to be here. He's not here by choice and let it be known how upset he was about the trade when it happened. After lebron left the east he likely thought that was their chance to make it out the east then gets traded for someone many believe will only be around for one season. Plus his old team doesn't seem to be missing him at all either.

[BackHome]

I honestly think DEROZZ will ask to be traded this summer he will do it much more quietly then KY but he will ask.

[DPG21920]

Well, for one, I’m truly hoping Murray blossoms like I think he can. With the emergence of White, having Murray make the same leap would immediately cover a lot of holes. Not that it changes DeRozan at all, but that alone is more key than anything with DeRozan at the moment IMO.

But while people seem to think trading DeRozan for “lesser” players and picks would signify rebuilding, I think SA could actually win more games while getting younger if they got even a Covington like player for DeRozan which most would consider a downgrade in talent.

[sasaint]

Well, for one, I’m truly hoping Murray blossoms like I think he can. With the emergence of White, having Murray make the same leap would immediately cover a lot of holes. Not that it changes DeRozan at all, but that alone is more key than anything with DeRozan at the moment IMO.

But while people seem to think trading DeRozan for “lesser” players and picks would signify rebuilding, I think SA could actually win more games while getting younger if they got even a Covington like player for DeRozan which most would consider a downgrade in talent.

Exactly!

[kaji157]

Many wanted Aldridge out by his first and second season here.
He improved in a lot of areas since then, and the front office for sure had a lot to do with his change of attitude towards defense and changing his game style.
I feel DeMar will be evaluated the same way by Pop and the staff, if they see a player willing to adapt, committed, who can improve in the areas he lacks, they'll keep him, otherwise I think they won't have trouble finding trade partners.

[RC_Drunkford]

If DeRozan could shoot 3s he'd be way more effective and valuable. Who knows maybe that happens next season

[monty4329]

I believe that demar doesn't want to be here. He's not here by choice and let it be known how upset he was about the trade when it happened. After lebron left the east he likely thought that was their chance to make it out the east then gets traded for someone many believe will only be around for one season. Plus his old team doesn't seem to be missing him at all either.

Of course they don't miss him. I guess they couldn't even believe it when the trade finalized.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

A lot can happen during the off-season as we all know. I think if Murray comes back ready to roll and gets better shooting from distance, along with Walker getting better I think the team could really be nice next season. We most definitely need wing defenders though

[ceperez]

Well, for one, I’m truly hoping Murray blossoms like I think he can. With the emergence of White, having Murray make the same leap would immediately cover a lot of holes. Not that it changes DeRozan at all, but that alone is more key than anything with DeRozan at the moment IMO.

But while people seem to think trading DeRozan for “lesser” players and picks would signify rebuilding, I think SA could actually win more games while getting younger if they got even a Covington like player for DeRozan which most would consider a downgrade in talent.

DeRozan is going to be difficult to unload in today's league that expects their star to hit 3s and defend.

[jjktkk]

The only way you're going to be able to trade Demar is taking back a bad contract. Why would a team want to trade anything of value for DeRozan?

[bklynspursfan]

If DeRozan could shoot 3s he'd be way more effective and valuable. Who knows maybe that happens next season

I'd be curious to see if he'd be open to a 6th man role. Having a guy like Manu potentially to get him to buy in might be big. Not likely, but I feel like he'd have a chance to flourish in that type of role with him being the focal point, surrounded by shooters.

(Assuming our 3 young guys are starting, which I don't know will happen)

[sasaint]

I'd be curious to see if he'd be open to a 6th man role. Having a guy like Manu potentially to get him to buy in might be big. Not likely, but I feel like he'd have a chance to flourish in that type of role with him being the focal point, surrounded by shooters.

(Assuming our 3 young guys are starting, which I don't know will happen)

We are paying the guy way too much to be a 6th man.

Having White, Murray and LWIV all starting makes for a very small starting lineup - but, who knows, in today's NBA maybe not too small.

[ZeusWillJudge]

But while people seem to think trading DeRozan for “lesser” players and picks would signify rebuilding, I think SA could actually win more games while getting younger if they got even a Covington like player for DeRozan which most would consider a downgrade in talent.


I don't know if I'm one of those people, but I never said that. I said that DeRozan's contract was upside down. The Spurs just about have to live with what he brings, and what he doesn't, because they can't trade him without losing value.

If they had gotten some decent players with good contracts, they would have trade pieces (which they don't have right now, except for young talent on cheap contracts). Having trade pieces and picks most definitely signifies rebuilding. If that's not true, correct me.

[C-Dub]

DDR will be fine by next year. The Spurs system isn't easy to pick up which fans that have been around for a while surely understands. We will be better next season with Murray, White, Demar, Bertans and LA starting. LA is the Spurs biggest problem as the main option because he has no touch inside the paint and plays to soft. That can't be your #1option. DDR will do better I believe as a SG instead of SF. If Murray wouldn't mind the 6th man role for 1 year to try out would be great so DDR can play SG but let Murray find a way to play 28-32 minutes a game staggering him DDR and White in the guard positions. With Lonnie not getting much playing time this year I don't see him getting significant minutes for at least 1 more season. That way the Spurs could start a pretty good SF even if its Huestis. We will also need a 3rd big like a Dedmon type.

[bklynspursfan]

We are paying the guy way too much to be a 6th man.

Having White, Murray and LWIV all starting makes for a very small starting lineup - but, who knows, in today's NBA maybe not too small.

I mean at the end of the day, if he's able to make a bigger/positive impact that way, who cares if he starts or is off the bench.

You're right, that may be a small lineup tho. We'll see what happens tho. It's always been tough to judge guys in their first year here. I know people usually want results immediately, but it just doesn't work out like that always.

[sasaint]

I mean at the end of the day, if he's able to make a bigger/positive impact that way, who cares if he starts or is off the bench.

You're right, that may be a small lineup tho. We'll see what happens tho. It's always been tough to judge guys in their first year here. I know people usually want results immediately, but it just doesn't work out like that always.

The problem with paying DeMar $27MM might be minimized if he could bring himself to be the 6th man - but only until his contract is up. Then he would have to take a big cut because we will have young guys who will get a big bump in pay. DeMar will see the writing on that wall. If he goes to the bench, his value as a FA plummets, and he has no chance of sniffing an ASG ever again (and I suspect that is something he might care about).

[Ocotillo]

I honestly think DEROZZ will ask to be traded this summer he will do it much more quietly then KY but he will ask.

If this turns out to be the case, DDR is from LA, you think a deal with the Lakers could be done if the Lakers whiff on Anthony Davis and other major signings? Nephew is rumored to be interested in the Clippers, Klay Thompson wants to stay in Golden State. Magic needs something.......

[SAGirl]

Nobody wants DeRozan. They probably couldn't even trade him into capspace, they'd have to add a pick for a team to take the non-all-star.

His offense fits nowhere and is a bad defender.

Going to have to wait him out like Pau.
Depressing situation bc Pau got an extension b4 being done.
I hope not.

[rascal]

Impact statistics:

Last year, Spurs were +5.6 points better against the opposition per 100 possessions last year when Dejounte was on the court.

This year, Spurs are +7.4 points better per 100 possessions when Derrick is on the court.

This year, Spurs are -6.4 points worse per 100 possessions when DeMar is on the floor.

This factors in both the offensive and defensive rating for the team when the specific player is on/off the court.

Note: Derrick has shared court w/ DeMar for 762 minutes this season.

DeMar has always been a very overrated player, due to the perception behind the pretty PPG statistic. Casuals and average fans love to use that stat as a barometer when assessing how good a player is.

Spurs would be better off on both ends by trading him this summer and spreading out his 20.7 possessions a game to Derrick, Dejounte, Gay( ?). All are more than capable to fulfill that workload and they would probably manufacture more efficient offense ( Spurs have a 116 ORTG w him off/111.6 w him on. Spurs also have higher eFG as a team w him off). The defense would be better as well.

I hope the Spurs consider moving him, and one or two of the Belinelli, Mills, Forbes trio moving forward.

Give some much needed leg room to Derrick, Dejounte, and Lonnie.

You are not factoring in the player they get back in a trade.

[vander]

He's going to unveil his new and improved 3pt shot any day now

[monty4329]

If this turns out to be the case, DDR is from LA, you think a deal with the Lakers could be done if the Lakers whiff on Anthony Davis and other major signings? Nephew is rumored to be interested in the Clippers, Klay Thompson wants to stay in Golden State. Magic needs something.......

I wish....But there is no way LA takes a guy that can't shoot 3s. The best use of Lebron is when he is surrounded by shooters.

[monty4329]

He's going to unveil his new and improved 3pt shot any day now
:lmao

[John B]

Demar :worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy: Tbh he’s turned around tearing it both offense and defense

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Demar :worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy: Tbh he’s turned around tearing it both offense and defense

He did play solid defense tonight. My only gripe was him crying because of no calls a couple of times but he didn’t do it a lot. He had a really good game tonight

[John B]

The guy has turned the corner, found his game with the team. I’m confident they’ve gelled together since that Demar comment they can beat anyone

[Mr. Body]

If he's actually clutch, this team could win a couple PO series. If.

[FkLA]

I've been saying it all season. He needs to embrace being a playmaker and just take what the defense gives him. Stop worrying about PPG and ditch the volume scorer label. Also stop trying to live up to the closer label. He has a tendency to go into hero mode at the end of games and he did it today (didn't run down shot clock), but overall he did a great job of letting things come to him.

His defense seems to be an effort thing. When he's engaged he's more than adequate. Any time it's a big game or big name opponent he seems to have solid defensive performances.

[therealtruth]

Wouldn't it make sense to trade Murray for a good wing?

[Mikeanaro]

Cancersol is gone and everything gets better, its no coincidence.