Report: Phoenix Suns organization is in 'a spiral in almost every way'

[baseline bum]

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-phoenix-suns-organization-spiral-almost-every-way-230902081.html
Report: Phoenix Suns organization is in 'a spiral in almost every way'
Ryan Young
Yahoo SportsFeb 27, 2019, 5:09 PM

The Phoenix Suns have held steady at the bottom of the NBA in recent years, and this season is no exception.

The Suns currently boast a 12-50 record, by far the worst record in the Western Conference and the worst in the NBA as a whole.

Apparently, however, the organizations struggles go far beyond any on-court issues. ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski, speaking on the latest “The Woj Report,” detailed the dysfunction throughout the Suns organization that is reportedly turning heads throughout the entire league.

“This is an organization that is in a spiral in almost every way,” Wojnarowski said. “It’s a concern for the NBA. Owner Robert Sarver has not seemed to learn a lot of lessons through the years about his management style, his hands-on nature and his ability to put an infrastructure in place and allow it to build an organization.”

On the surface, that’s a bold statement to make. Claiming that an owner’s leadership is truly that bad that it is causing other prominent leaders in the NBA to have concern isn’t something heard very often.

However when looking at the Suns’ success, or lack thereof, under Sarver, it’s not that crazy of a statement.

Sarver bought the Suns in 2004. While they had a good stretch initially — reaching the playoffs consistently behind Steve Nash, Shaquille O’Neal and Amar’e Stoudemire under coach Mike D’Antoni — it’s been rough since. Phoenix has had just one winning season since 2010, and will miss the playoffs this year for the ninth-straight season. They are on their fifth coach since D’Antoni left in 2008, and their third general manager.

Phoenix haven’t won more than 24 games in a season in the past three years, either, and the team could easily miss that mark again this year with just 20 games left on their schedule.

They aren’t just consistently losing, however. Phoenix has had ample opportunity to bring in quality players to turn the organization around, yet there has been little-to-no improvement. They had the No. 1 overall pick in the 2018 NBA draft, the No. 4 pick in both 2016 and 2017, and the No. 13 pick in 2015.

While James Jones is currently the interim general manager — he replaced Ryan McDonough this year — and can’t be blamed fully for the team’s struggles, it sounds like he isn’t scouting much at all in preparation of having what will likely be an extremely high pick in the 2019 draft.

“Jones has had a rather unorthodox view toward the NBA draft,” Wojnarowski said. “There’s not a lot of scouting going on in Phoenix. He’s not on the road a lot.

“I’m told that (Sarver has) considered the idea of hiring a president of basketball operations that would perhaps oversee James Jones. He hasn’t started on interviewing candidates for that, but it certainly is a consideration and probably a pathway to at least get somebody in Phoenix with the experience, the resume, of running an NBA organization, running it successfully.”

Sarver certainly can turn the Suns around and bring them back to prevalence in the NBA. But that without a doubt starts with hiring a qualified president of basketball operations and making a great selection in the draft this summer. Researching the draft class thoroughly before hand seems like a given.

If they don’t, however, it could be more of the same in Phoenix next season — and for the foreseeable future.

“There’s no question from the league office to teams around the league, there’s a lot of raised eyebrows at Phoenix and how they’re operating right now,” Wojnarowski said. “This is another crossroads for Robert Sarver to figure out how to get this team from really a state of disrepair back on the path to relevancy even before they consider the idea of being contenders again.”

[Millennial_Messiah]

James Jones is the general manager and scout :lmao no wonder... that guy was a scrub with below average intelligence that was best known for pantyriding contenders from the back of the bench.

And the author of the article is a dumbass for citing Shaq as the second name after Nash. The heyday of this era was with Nash, Amare, and Marion... not Shaq. Shaq was the beginning of the end of that run. Was always a dumb and weird trade. That said, they probably deserved to win the title in 2007 and got cheated a bit by the league.

[Will Hunting]

James Jones doesn’t have an “unorthodox” approach, he has no approach at all. He’s a lameduck interim GM who’s losing his job so he’s not going to bust his ass doing any work. Sarver having him as an interim GM for this long is inexcusable.

The Suns have a team to get excited about now, Ayton and Booker are not a bad core to build around at all, the morale of that entire franchise is so low though that talent doesn’t matter. Sarver has run off all the good front office guys they had (David Griffin, Rick Welts, Steve Kerr, etc) and no one wants to work for him anymore.

[Chris]

Pop and Duncan set that organization back decades. Sarver hates Pop for it.

[baseline bum]

Pop and Duncan set that organization back decades. Sarver hates Pop for it.

The Suns could have gotten over that hump but Sarver was so cheap he was just giving away lottery picks. I can't imagine how filthy that Suns team with Joe Johnson, Marion, Stoudemire, and Nash could have been after signing Diaw and with Andre Iguodala as a sixth man. Or even Luol Deng. Most other owners would have gotten that franchise a couple of banners.

[phxspurfan]

The Suns could have gotten over that hump but Sarver was so cheap he was just giving away lottery picks. I can't imagine how filthy that Suns team with Joe Johnson, Marion, Stoudemire, and Nash could have been after signing Diaw and with Andre Iguodala as a sixth man. Or even Luol Deng. Most other owners would have gotten that franchise a couple of banners.

They even looked ok when they had the Morris Twins, IT and Dragic. But I think they then fired the coach and traded everyone. They also don’t draft well.

[Jeremy]

It just gets worse LOL:

Suns GM James Jones buys fans beer after Josh Jackson skips autograph signing

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/james-jones-suns-josh-jackson-signing-beer

[Chris]

The Suns could have gotten over that hump but Sarver was so cheap he was just giving away lottery picks. I can't imagine how filthy that Suns team with Joe Johnson, Marion, Stoudemire, and Nash could have been after signing Diaw and with Andre Iguodala as a sixth man. Or even Luol Deng. Most other owners would have gotten that franchise a couple of banners.

Crazy to think D'Antoni was one Horry hipcheck away from winning a ring.

[baseline bum]

Crazy to think D'Antoni was one Horry hipcheck away from winning a ring.

Big Shot Rob doing the Lord's work :tu

[FrostKing]

2007 was a wild Playoff
- Baby Bulls sweep defending champs
- 67 win Mavs upset
- Warriors then meltdown against Utah
- Jazz reach WCF
- Cavs kill off Pistons

Typical becareful what you wish for. All the upsets were memorable but when the dust settled it was a horrific Finale

[Chris]

Big Shot Rob doing the Lord's work :tu

Doing it the right way, not Zaza Pacheapshot :lol

[Kobe'sAchilles]

I just submitted my resume to be the next GM. You're welcome in advance Sun fans (all 3 of you).

[baseline bum]

- Warriors then meltdown against Utah


Warriors were barely a .500 team. That's what they were supposed to do in the playoffs. Don Nelson coached the series of his life in that first round.

[Mark Celibate]

The Warriors - Jazz series was competitive from what I remember. The real snoozefest was slow, methodical Utah advancing to play the Spurs team who were just as boring but better in all areas of the game. Seeing the helter skelter Warriors vs San Antonio would've generated tons of ratings

[baseline bum]

The Warriors - Jazz series was competitive from what I remember.

There was only one game of the series that was decided by single digits (the first game).

[benefactor]

Today I attempted to insert a whole cantaloupe melon into my anus because the local shops had run out of apricots (I buy a lot). Using about a gallon of butter, breathing techniques and a few hours I managed to finally get it inside. However it was too uncomfortable so I tried to shit it back out. This is where things got confusing because rather than a melon sliding out half a dozen apricots did. Now there is a chance that I just blacked out upon excreting the cantaloupe and it rolled away somewhere and that I happened to have a dozen or so left over apricots lying around my rectum from earlier but I cannot for the life of me find the melon anywhere. I think I may have the power to anally turn melons into apricots. Further experimentation will be required of course (once my rectum has recovered) but if this turns out to be true then I may be able to solve world hunger.

[Will Hunting]

The Suns could have gotten over that hump but Sarver was so cheap he was just giving away lottery picks. I can't imagine how filthy that Suns team with Joe Johnson, Marion, Stoudemire, and Nash could have been after signing Diaw and with Andre Iguodala as a sixth man. Or even Luol Deng. Most other owners would have gotten that franchise a couple of banners.
Would have never had Diaw with Joe Johnson - they got him in the Joe Johnson trade.

The dumbest part of them selling the 7th overall pick in 2004 was that D'antoni gave the go ahead to sell it because he didn't think Iguodala would be available by that pick and sure enough he was available.

D'antoni had the most retarded draft philosophy ever. He had a short list of 2-4 players he wanted and if they weren't there by the time it was their turn to pick, he told Sarver that he was fine with the pick being sold.

The 05 Suns with Iggy probably still lose to the 05 Spurs (maybe the most stacked Spurs team of all time, made it through the playoffs with Duncan playing on a bum ankle), but the 07 Suns with Joe Johnson and Iggy would have run over the league.

[baseline bum]

Would have never had Diaw with Joe Johnson - they got him in the Joe Johnson trade.

The dumbest part of them selling the 7th overall pick in 2004 was that D'antoni gave the go ahead to sell it because he didn't think Iguodala would be available by that pick and sure enough he was available.

D'antoni had the most retarded draft philosophy ever. He had a short list of 2-4 players he wanted and if they weren't there by the time it was their turn to pick, he told Sarver that he was fine with the pick being sold.

The 05 Suns with Iggy probably still lose to the 05 Spurs (maybe the most stacked Spurs team of all time, made it through the playoffs with Duncan playing on a bum ankle), but the 07 Suns with Joe Johnson and Iggy would have run over the league.


Shit, forgot about that. I thought he was a FA signing. LMAO @ Pringles. I always thought selling off the Iguodala pick was all Sarver. Yeah the 07 team with Johnson+Iguodala would have easily rang and no way they wouldn't have gotten at least one more in 2008 through 2010.

[Will Hunting]

Shit, forgot about that. I thought he was a FA signing. LMAO @ Pringles. I always thought selling off the Iguodala pick was all Sarver. Yeah the 07 team with Johnson+Iguodala would have easily rang and no way they wouldn't have gotten at least one more in 2008 through 2010.
The pick selling was half Pringles / half Sarver. Sarver was always looking for ways to cut costs and D'antoni believed that selling draft picks was the best way to do it. Sarver's fault for being cheap and D'antoni's fault for having an idiotic philosophy that draft picks (the things that lead to having talented players on cheap rookie deals) were the best way to cut costs.

[phxspurfan]

Shit, forgot about that. I thought he was a FA signing. LMAO @ Pringles. I always thought selling off the Iguodala pick was all Sarver. Yeah the 07 team with Johnson+Iguodala would have easily rang and no way they wouldn't have gotten at least one more in 2008 through 2010.

07 Spurs and Mavs both were really good too.

[Spurtacular]

Suns #1 overall pick was not a bust (though they were stupid to not get Doncic). That's the win they wanted this season, tbh. They just get another great pick upcoming, too.

[phxspurfan]

Suns #1 overall pick was not a bust (though they were stupid to not get Doncic). That's the win they wanted this season, tbh. They just get another great pick upcoming, too.

I actually didn't agree that Ayton was the best consensus #1 last year. I'm not a scout of course, but to me, in :lol Today's NBA :lol a player like Doncic would have a much higher ceiling than a big lumbering center. I think teams get caught up in pre-draft rankings and believe scouts too much, making guys like Darko Milicic etc high picks based on scout opinions and group think, versus their own assessments (of course they evaluate players themselves, but those evaluations seem to lead toward group think as well).


https://www.nbadraft.net/nba_final_draft/2018


TBH without even looking at stats, I'd say for Today's wing-happy NBA, a player like JJ Jr. would be higher than Ayton in terms of potential (if he could turn into a PG13/LeBron/KD type of player, that would be more valuable than if Ayton could turn into an Embiid/Towns). Doncic (disregarding what we already see from stats/his play time in the NBA), would still be a risk, since he is coming from European leagues, which have produced a number of busts.

Even a player like Mo Bamba, or Trae Young, seems better fitted for Today's NBA than Ayton. These types of players can't be chased off the court by an opposing coach going with small ball.

[Ghazi]

07 Spurs and Mavs both were really good too.

Looking back, 07 Mavs are probably the worst team ever to win 65+ games in regular season.

[Mr. Body]

Booker is trash. Massive mistake giving him that money.

[phxspurfan]

Looking back, 07 Mavs are probably the worst team ever to win 65+ games in regular season.

Not sure I agree... they had some good players at or near their prime:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/2007.html

Dirk
Stackhouse
Jet Terry
Dampier
Devin Harris
Josh Howard (during the 2 years he was good)

solid role players

Diop
Croshere
Devin George
Buckner
JJ Barea


scrubs

DJ Mbenga
Kevin Willis
Anthony Johnson
Pops Mensah Bonsu



I'd say in 2006-07, with Prime Dirk, that was a good team offensively and defensively. They had Dirk who was unguardable bc he had the 3ball and a midrange game + refs' respect, and had learned to post up those midgets (what Sir Charles was telling him to do after Spurs kept using Bowen to guard him). They also had Devin Harris, the Tony Parker kryptonite, and Josh Howard, who would put in good 3rd banana numbers (15 or so points, some rebounds), and Erica Dampier with the boards and blocks. Stackhouse was getting old but could still put up a decent game once in awhile IIRC. And Terry/Barea were just nuisances, which all championship teams need.

[Seventyniner]

The Suns are just the Lakers farm team anyway. I bet Magic is paying James Jones under the table, and using all this tampering as a smokescreen.

[Jeremy]

Booker is trash. Massive mistake giving him that money.

How is he trash? And what were they supposed to do, not pay him and be left with nobody?

[daslicer]

How is he trash? And what were they supposed to do, not pay him and be left with nobody?

They should have done it. With Booker they are still one of the worst teams in the league and if not the worst. What's the point of giving a player hundreds of millions of dollars just to be a consistent lottery team. You could have done that at a much cheaper price.

[Spurtacular]

I actually didn't agree that Ayton was the best consensus #1 last year. I'm not a scout of course, but to me, in :lol Today's NBA :lol a player like Doncic would have a much higher ceiling than a big lumbering center. I think teams get caught up in pre-draft rankings and believe scouts too much, making guys like Darko Milicic etc high picks based on scout opinions and group think, versus their own assessments (of course they evaluate players themselves, but those evaluations seem to lead toward group think as well).


https://www.nbadraft.net/nba_final_draft/2018


TBH without even looking at stats, I'd say for Today's wing-happy NBA, a player like JJ Jr. would be higher than Ayton in terms of potential (if he could turn into a PG13/LeBron/KD type of player, that would be more valuable than if Ayton could turn into an Embiid/Towns). Doncic (disregarding what we already see from stats/his play time in the NBA), would still be a risk, since he is coming from European leagues, which have produced a number of busts.

Even a player like Mo Bamba, or Trae Young, seems better fitted for Today's NBA than Ayton. These types of players can't be chased off the court by an opposing coach going with small ball.

Ayton will be a good piece should the NBA rules get adjusted to stop all this pussy ball. Hard to say if it will; the consumers aren't demanding it at this point. Either way, he's an athletic big and not a lumbering big; that is very doable in today's NBA.

Doncic is not a bust. His production and confidence is only going to increase. He was the best player in the draft.

[Will Hunting]

Ayton will be a good piece should the NBA rules get adjusted to stop all this pussy ball. Hard to say if it will; the consumers aren't demanding it at this point. Either way, he's an athletic big and not a lumbering big; that is very doable in today's NBA.
Even if pussyball doesn't go away, athletic and skilled bigs like Ayton will be just fine. He's averaging 16 and 11 on nearly 60% shooting as a 19 year-old rookie on the most dysfunctional team in the NBA. He'll be averaging 20 and 10 in no time. He probably averages >20 PPG as a rookie if the Suns' point guard position wasn't such a partial birth abortion.

The centers who have essentially become useless are guys like Eric Dampier who have no real skill to speak up and are just big and clog up the paint. That type of player is pretty much done in :lol today's NBA.

[Spurtacular]

Even if pussyball doesn't go away, athletic and skilled bigs like Ayton will be just fine. He's averaging 16 and 11 on nearly 60% shooting as a 19 year-old rookie on the most dysfunctional team in the NBA. He'll be averaging 20 and 10 in no time. He probably averages >20 PPG as a rookie if the Suns' point guard position wasn't such a partial birth abortion.

The centers who have essentially become useless are guys like Eric Dampier who have no real skill to speak up and are just big and clog up the paint. That type of player is pretty much done in :lol today's NBA.

Pretty much what I was saying; though, players often have higher scoring numbers on shit teams, so I don't put stock into that. I haven't watched him really; but I would forecast 22-12.

[Jeremy]

Ayton got the better of LeBron tonight. A satisfying win in an ugly season.

[apalisoc_9]

James Jones doesn’t have an “unorthodox” approach, he has no approach at all. He’s a lameduck interim GM who’s losing his job so he’s not going to bust his ass doing any work. Sarver having him as an interim GM for this long is inexcusable.

The Suns have a team to get excited about now, Ayton and Booker are not a bad core to build around at all, the morale of that entire franchise is so low though that talent doesn’t matter. Sarver has run off all the good front office guys they had (David Griffin, Rick Welts, Steve Kerr, etc) and no one wants to work for him anymore.

Wait..is this the same Miami Hest James Jones? :lmao

I havent been following the NBA as much but if this is the same jones

:lmao
:lmao
:lmao

[LkrFan]

Ayton got the better of LeBron tonight. A satisfying win in an tanking season.

FIFY

[Will Hunting]

Wait..is this the same Miami Hest James Jones? :lmao

I havent been following the NBA as much but if this is the same jones

:lmao
:lmao
:lmao
:lol indeed is

[Play Boban]

:lol indeed is
I’m surprised he’s not the Lakers’ GM tbh considering how he followed LeBron his entire career.

[Play Boban]

Tbh, change title to:

”Report: Los Angeles Lakers organization is in ‘a spiral in almost every way’”.

[Spurtacular]

They beat the desperate Lakers; they're not spiraling that much...

[Jeremy]

New top story on ESPN:

Inside the Phoenix Suns' messy and dysfunctional front office
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26088024/inside-phoenix-suns-messy-dysfunctional-front-office

And by “messy” they aren’t kidding:


FOUR YEARS AFTER naming McDonough general manager, Sarver acquired some live goats from a Diana Taurasi event at Talking Stick Resort Arena and planted them upstairs in McDonough's office. The stunt was both a practical joke and an inspirational message -- the Suns should find a GOAT of their own, one who dominates like Taurasi. The goats, unaware of their metaphorical connotation, proceeded to defecate all over McDonough's office.

[Chris]

If I saw a bunch of goats in the office I would think that would be some creepy Satanic shit, and gtfo :lol

[Will Hunting]

I think Silver and the other owners are trying to pressure him to sell, which is why stories like this (that are probably 2 years old) are suddenly starting to get leaked.

He was always going to be on the shitlist of Silver/Stern after how he handled the last CBA negotiation, but the Suns have become such a clusterfuck the NBA probably wants to step in at this point and change ownership.

[Will Hunting]

If I saw a bunch of goats in the office I would think that would be some creepy Satanic shit, and gtfo :lol
My response would have been a question as to why my boss is willing to buy goats to prank his employees but won't spend money on stuff like a fully staffed scouting department :lol

[baseline bum]

He was always going to be on the shitlist of Silver/Stern after how he handled the last CBA negotiation

I don't remember, what was Sarver doing during the negotiation of the CBA?

[Will Hunting]

I don't remember, what was Sarver doing during the negotiation of the CBA?
He was making the most ridiculous proposals ever that every owner other than Sterling said was asinine. He proposed (and was completely serious) a hard salary cap of $60 million and a max contract of $12 million per year, and when he was negotiating with players, tried explaining to them that he couldn't afford to pay them what they're asking for because his wife is "expecting him to bring the mid level exception home in a designer handbag" (comment wasn't tongue in cheek either, players reported that it was a serious effort to get the players to empathize with why he needed them to take less money).

There was one point in the negotiations where it was owners + Stern in a room and Sarver asked Stern to leave the room so the owners could "talk amongst themselves". The rumors were that more or less none of the other owners backed him up on that at all, and afterward Stern pulled him aside and threatened him with what would happen if he ever tried that shit again.

[Will Hunting]

Here's the article baseline bum:

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2011/10/01/robert-sarver-reportedly-even-more-ridiculous-than-previously-thought/

[baseline bum]

He was making the most ridiculous proposals ever that every owner other than Sterling said was asinine. He proposed (and was completely serious) a hard salary cap of $60 million and a max contract of $12 million per year, and when he was negotiating with players, tried explaining to them that he couldn't afford to pay them what they're asking for because his wife is "expecting him to bring the mid level exception home in a designer handbag" (comment wasn't tongue in cheek either, players reported that it was a serious effort to get the players to empathize with why he needed them to take less money).


:lmao

[Jeremy]

Ayton got the better of Giannis tonight.

Last game, he got the defensive assignment on LeBron and tonight he was guarding Giannis. And the result was 2 Suns wins in a row.

[Mr. Body]

:lol Just like the Suns to start giving a fuck and playing well when vacation is well in sight.