Trae Young is balling like crazy lately

[AaronY]

Dear God..

https://i.imgur.com/K6VWG9Mh.jpg

[Spurs9]

He’s playing unbelievable, Hawks made a good choice with him plus getting that pick back.

[Bynumite]

ROTY

[spursistan]

ROTY

He's really back in it now..

Also Mavs fans acting like they have destroyed Atlanta in that trade :lol.

The whole "Doncic >>>> Trae Young" is what it is: a premature ejaculation take..

[Killakobe81]

He has narrowed the gap but there is some recency bias in play...

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Saw him in person vs the rockets. The dude is ridiculous right now. Some of the shots he was making was insane. Everyone in the building was just losing it everytime he made a contested 3 pointer. He really has carried a bad Atlanta team and made them competitive as of late.

[LkrFan]

He balling. Hope he wins ROTY tbh. Eff the Mavs fans for that stupid "Luka Magic" nickname. There's only one Magic. :nope

[daslicer]

He balling. Hope he wins ROTY tbh. Eff the Mavs fans for that stupid "Luka Magic" nickname. There's only one Magic. :nope

:lol I see you don't believe in White Magic.

[Jules_Winnfield]

Floor: sewer rat
Ceiling: bald Monta Ellis

[FrostKing]

Unlikable personality

[Broly]

I’m not sure what to make of these rookies. Like are they actually that good, or is the league so watered down and have the rules been so benificial that makes them look much better than they actually are. It’s getting to a point where 20 points is equal to 10 points like 10 years ago. Pace, pace, pace and no defense.

[R. DeMurre]

Advanced stats still highlight him as possibly the worst defender on a bad defensive team... it'll be interesting to see how that plays out if he gets some better defenders around him in the future.

[FrostKing]

I’m not sure what to make of these rookies. Like are they actually that good, or is the league so watered down and have the rules been so benificial that makes them look much better than they actually are. It’s getting to a point where 20 points is equal to 10 points like 10 years ago. Pace, pace, pace and no defense.
A) no worry about defending on the other end

B) no leash so can jack up shots from absurd distances/situations

C) more possessions per game (back to point B, mistakes aren't so critical)

[Spurtacular]

He's really back in it now..

Also Mavs fans acting like they have destroyed Atlanta in that trade :lol.

The whole "Doncic >>>> Trae Young" is what it is: a premature ejaculation take..

Monoslob in your head or something. Doncic won rookie of the year playing in a real team scheme. Just cos Trae starts chucking on a really shitty team doesn't mean much now.

[AaronY]

^truly rent free :lmao
lmao. whole bunch of peeps living rent free in ol derp's head.

whole thing is truly on a whole Nother Level (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=52699)

[Seventyniner]

Advanced stats still highlight him as possibly the worst defender on a bad defensive team... it'll be interesting to see how that plays out if he gets some better defenders around him in the future.

So he's looking like a rich man's IT? Or at least more cost-effective.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

put me on record as :lol trae young :lol

[R. DeMurre]

Well, until he ran into Derrick White, who completely outplayed him in every way-- efficiency, defense, assists.

[BD24]

Looked like a chucker on a shitty team with the green light last night. His defense makes Bryan Forbes look like a lock up defender.

[Texas_Ranger]

he looks great when he's playing 40+ min a game and shoots 25 times.

I do like his passing.

[DAF86]

"WAS... balling"
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRiibuXZ8IwOlNDlR-V_TirfzR_ATbDV-Auo2E8TV1LB06Bv7QQ

[DAF86]

https://i.imgur.com/HVVlvwt_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

[R. DeMurre]

#1 rule of player assessment: Beware of big stats/no D on a team that regularly loses.

[R. DeMurre]

https://i.imgur.com/HVVlvwt_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium


:lmao

[phxspurfan]

I found some footage of Trae and his new daddy, Derrick White:

W1fv8bPOwGk

[Mr. Body]

I didn't believe in him in college. Still don't know if he's just another Devin Booker, but at least he can score.

[spurraider21]

:wow

[AaronY]

:wow
Came in here to bump this thread lol

Maybe DMC can start a thread bashing him so he can really take off

[monosylab1k]

I love Dončić with all my heart and wouldn’t change a thing, but it’s very possible that the Mavs lost this trade by a fairly large margin. Especially if Reddish pans out into even a serviceable role player.

[Will Hunting]

I love Dončić with all my heart and wouldn’t change a thing, but it’s very possible that the Mavs lost this trade by a fairly large margin. Especially if Reddish pans out into even a serviceable role player.
He’s had two hot shooting nights, that’s really it. I still think doncic is easily the better and more complete player.

[The Gemini Method]

I love Dončić with all my heart and wouldn’t change a thing, but it’s very possible that the Mavs lost this trade by a fairly large margin. Especially if Reddish pans out into even a serviceable role player.

I wouldn't say that's the case. I watched Luka for the first time the other night vs. the Pelicans, and he definitely looks better suited for the Western Conference than Trae would be.

[Laker_1995]

Tough call but I still prefer Luka. Crazy how perfect it worked out for both teams lol doesn’t happen often

[FkLA]

I love Dončić with all my heart and wouldn’t change a thing, but it’s very possible that the Mavs lost this trade by a fairly large margin. Especially if Reddish pans out into even a serviceable role player.

Is Donutcic ever going to lose weight?

[Texas_Ranger]

Is Donutcic ever going to lose weight?

if he does he will average 40 15 and 15 and that wouldn't be fair.

[lefty]

Nice jinx tbh

[AaronY]

Nice jinx tbh
oh, ok

[lefty]

Just a glorified Terrell Brandon tbh

[AaronY]

Just a glorified Terrell Brandon tbh
oh, ok.

[ambchang]

Trae Young reminds me a lot of Michael Adams or a Dana Barros type of player. Got the green light to chuck, low efficiency, doesn't do anything else, gives up as many points as he gets, doesn't help his team win.

He is just lucky he's in :lol today's NBA.

[AaronY]

Trae Young reminds me a lot of Michael Adams or a Dana Barros type of player. Got the green light to chuck, low efficiency, doesn't do anything else, gives up as many points as he gets, doesn't help his team win.

He is just lucky he's in :lol today's NBA.
His efficiency is not low at all lol. His TS% is 58.2% this year and he's doing all this at 21

[AaronY]

His defense is atrocious though and Zach Lowe talked about it today (see#4):

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28313228/ten-nba-things-like-including-philadelphia-76ers-big-question

[lefty]

Trae Young reminds me a lot of Michael Adams or a Dana Barros type of player. Got the green light to chuck, low efficiency, doesn't do anything else, gives up as many points as he gets, doesn't help his team win.

He is just lucky he's in :lol today's NBA.
Pretty much this

BJ Armstrong would be an MVP candidate in today’s NBA :lol

:wow Mark Price would be unanimous MVP

[ambchang]

His efficiency is not low at all lol. His TS% is 58.2% this year and he's doing all this at 21

Pretty much the same as Dana barros TS% rewards players who shoot a lot to threes and doesn’t take into account the high degree of variance in the shots. M

It also reward players with high FTa which is highly inflated in :lol today’s nba for perimeter players.

[AaronY]

Pretty much the same as Dana barros TS% rewards players who shoot a lot to threes and doesn’t take into account the high degree of variance in the shots.

lol what does this even mean

[AaronY]

It also reward players with high FTa which is highly inflated in :lol today’s nba for perimeter players.
Getting to the free throw line is good actually. Almost all of the top scorers in history from Jordan to Lebron to David Robinson have gotten to the line a ton in their primes. You could argue with the gimmicky bullshit of today's game but thats a separate topic

[Neo.]

It also reward players with high FTa which is highly inflated in :lol today’s nba for perimeter players.

interesting fact. except for the fact that its a lie, because FTAs have been steadily declining over the past 30 years

this year teams are averaging 23 FTAs/game

2009 teams averaged 24.5

1999 teams averaged 25.3

1989 teams averaged 28.5

people like James Harden are simply an anomaly, quit acting like every perimeter player in the league is just getting abnormal amounts of FTs or something. and just like Harden, certain players have always gotten some sort of favoritism from the refs, Harden just has found a way to exploit rules better, much like Rodman and Laimbeer did on defense in the 80s, with all the flopping they made into an art form, and Isiah Thomas getting his fair share of cheap foul calls by jumping into defenders and flailing his arms everywhere.

its really funny how people who love 80s and 90s basketball want to call modern players soft because they whine to officials, flop and exploit officiating, and have big men shooting threes, when it was 80s and 90s players on the most "hard-nosed, physical, manly team ever" who made many of these things a trend to begin with :rolleyes

[ambchang]

lol what does this even mean

Learn stats. Can be useful in other aspects of your life.

[ambchang]

Getting to the free throw line is good actually. Almost all of the top scorers in history from Jordan to Lebron to David Robinson have gotten to the line a ton in their primes. You could argue with the gimmicky bullshit of today's game but thats a separate topic

Didn’t say it isn’t. Just that’s its so easy for perimeter players to get them in :lol today’s nba.

[ambchang]

interesting fact. except for the fact that its a lie, because FTAs have been steadily declining over the past 30 years

this year teams are averaging 23 FTAs/game

2009 teams averaged 24.5

1999 teams averaged 25.3

1989 teams averaged 28.5

people like James Harden are simply an anomaly, quit acting like every perimeter player in the league is just getting abnormal amounts of FTs or something. and just like Harden, certain players have always gotten some sort of favoritism from the refs, Harden just has found a way to exploit rules better, much like Rodman and Laimbeer did on defense in the 80s, with all the flopping they made into an art form, and Isiah Thomas getting his fair share of cheap foul calls by jumping into defenders and flailing his arms everywhere.

its really funny how people who love 80s and 90s basketball want to call modern players soft because they whine to officials, flop and exploit officiating, and have big men shooting threes, when it was 80s and 90s players on the most "hard-nosed, physical, manly team ever" who made many of these things a trend to begin with :rolleyes

Because teams are all perimeter based now. Perimeter players get way more fta but inside players don’t.

[Neo.]

Because teams are all perimeter based now. Perimeter players get way more fta but inside players don’t.

hm and you dont think the reason teams are more perimeter based could possibly have anything to do with an improvement in skill level of players over the past 20-30 years? its just entirely 100% due to rules, and nothing else?

if we want to just chalk modern nba up to players being "soft", and "favorable rule changes", then maybe we should knock 80s and 90s players for lack of intelligence. i can't help but wonder how many FTs 80s and 90s players could have averaged if they simply did the "swing through" on players who were so crappy at defense that they had to resort to handchecking. unfortunately they werent as smart as todays nba to see the flaw in that style of defense, and exploit it for some easy points.

:lol yesterdays nba
:lol league of retards
:lol too stupid to learn the game of basketball and its rules
:lol thinking skill = charging on offense and holding on defense
:lol thinking mental strength = flagrantly fouling people because you got embarrased for failing miserably at your job of playing basketball

[ambchang]

hm and you dont think the reason teams are more perimeter based could possibly have anything to do with an improvement in skill level of players over the past 20-30 years? its just entirely 100% due to rules, and nothing else?

if we want to just chalk modern nba up to players being "soft", and "favorable rule changes", then maybe we should knock 80s and 90s players for lack of intelligence. i can't help but wonder how many FTs 80s and 90s players could have averaged if they simply did the "swing through" on players who were so crappy at defense that they had to resort to handchecking. unfortunately they werent as smart as todays nba to see the flaw in that style of defense, and exploit it for some easy points.

:lol yesterdays nba
:lol league of retards
:lol too stupid to learn the game of basketball and its rules
:lol thinking skill = charging on offense and holding on defense
:lol thinking mental strength = flagrantly fouling people because you got embarrased for failing miserably at your job of playing basketball

Swing through a wouldn’t have been called unless you are Jordan and he did plenty of those types of things. In fact hand checking was outlawed in :lol today’s nba. Player also shoot less threes because a) it was highly discouraged and b) perimeter defense wouldn’t allow it.

The FT shooting percentage, which is the one shot that is least affected by defense and rules, hasn’t changed much. In fact, there isn’t much of a trend for it. Defensive rules have changed dramatically in the last few years and the shift to perimeter based offence was rather sudden. It would be hard to argue that suddenly, one day, all nba players just got miraculously skilled in shooting over the course of a few years like those 2001 space odyssey apes.

:lol you making fun of previous players for not learning future rules and playing to their advantage and calling been stupid.

[Dirks_Finale]

. Player also shoot less threes because a) it was highly discouraged and b) perimeter defense wouldn’t allow it.

.

Those are the key points. I can recall big men getting fined by their coaches for shooting 3's...even if they made them lol.

Today's defenses are so weak that i often feel like I am watching a scrimmage or something and find myself tuning out midgame.

[lefty]

Those are the key points. I can recall big men getting fined by their coaches for shooting 3's...even if they made them lol.

Today's defenses are so weak that i often feel like I am watching a scrimmage or something and find myself tuning out midgame.

That shit is really hard to watch
It has reached beisbol levels of boring

[Neo.]

Swing through a wouldn’t have been called unless you are Jordan and he did plenty of those types of things.

Proof?


In fact hand checking was outlawed in :lol today’s nba.

It was not outlawed in today's NBA. It was actually outlawed back in the 70s, then more enforced in 1995, and more heavily enforced in 2004. But the entire time, the rule only allowed it if it did not impede an opponents progress or momentum, but defensive players were finding loopholes (just like offensive players do with the "swing through") to the point that the league "banned" all hand contact, which is a load of crap because everyone still handchecks and generally doesn't get called for it. Anyone who watches the game can see that, but butthurt people like yourself just can't accept change, and want to blame everything on "the ruleezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz changeddddddd !!!!!!!11!11!1!!1 yesterdays players would average 500 ppg in todays league ZOMG!!!!!!!11!1!"

Truth is, it would be comical the kinds of fouls guys like Harden and KD would draw against hand checking. Oh wait, they already do, because the moment they see someone try to even come close to hand-checking them, they have a counter. Guess that's why guys are now being told to keep their hands off of them. So how exactly would hand checking be an advantage against any modern scorer?


Player also shoot less threes because a) it was highly discouraged and b) perimeter defense wouldn’t allow it.

The A point is very true, most coaches (aside from Nelly) didn't understand the actual value of the 3 point shot, not just in terms of the points and averages, but also the affect it has on an opposing defense.

The B point is simply garbage. Tell me how exactly hand checking would help defend against a Steph or Harden step-back or pull-up 3? Tell me how exactly a flagrant foul for getting embarrased would help defend against a Steph or Harden step-back or pull-up 3?


The FT shooting percentage, which is the one shot that is least affected by defense and rules, hasn’t changed much. In fact, there isn’t much of a trend for it.

Um, okay?


Defensive rules have changed dramatically in the last few years and the shift to perimeter based offence was rather sudden. It would be hard to argue that suddenly, one day, all nba players just got miraculously skilled in shooting over the course of a few years like those 2001 space odyssey apes.

No, not in one day, but over the course of the past 15-20 years, perimeter and shooting skills have improved dramatically, with guys like Reggie Miller, Ray Allen and Dirk showing the effect of a proficient 3 in a scorers arsenal, and guys like Mike, Iverson, Kobe and KG setting trends in perimeter scoring skills.

Now I'm not denying that rule changes have encouraged more perimeter scoring, or that hand checking doesn't have any effect whatsoever. Just it's not the entire reason as people like you make it out to be. Players and coaching have simply evolved more years of history and experience have been learned from. Anyone with a brain can see that if you have proficient deep shooting abilities, it completely opens an offense up, while making a defenses job much more difficult. It's a lot easier to have a defensive gameplan when you aren't worried about your opponents shooting many threes. Not sure why that's so hard to accept or see.

But now, even if you know the three is coming, players are so good at it they can hit them consistently with a hand in their face. Or imagine having to defend a guy like Steph or KD, who is running at you full speed. How would you defend that? Do you play up on them 30 feet out, and risk giving up a wide open layup or dunk, or do you play off and risk them stopping on a dime and hitting a pull up three that they have a history of hitting consistently? How many players like that existed in the 80s and 90s? Few, if any. But now, nearly every team has a guy like that. And they don't even have to be superstars, it can be a role player like Seth Curry doing that to you. With players having developed a different skillset from a young age, it makes defense much more difficult to play.


:lol you making fun of previous players for not learning future rules and playing to their advantage and calling been stupid.

I'm sorry, what rule was created for todays NBA that says "swing-throughs will now be called a foul, even though they weren't before" ? Oh wait, there was no such rule change, because it always would have been a foul, just most players never thought to try it much.

:lol unintelligent neanderthals playing what we know as 80s and 90s basketball


Today's defenses are so weak that i often feel like I am watching a scrimmage or something and find myself tuning out midgame.

Funny, that's how I feel when I watch 80s games.

[monosylab1k]

Defense in the 80’s was terrible, how can anybody say it was better than today’s NBA with a straight face? :lol Teams were scoring 120+ pts a night WITHOUT any 3 pt shooting :lol

In the 90’s it was less about solid defense, and more about a league with way less overall talent (imagine Glen Rice being an All-Star in 2019 :lmao), in conjunction with a huge rise in selfish, hero-ball play that slowed the game way down.

[lefty]

Defense in the 80’s was terrible, how can anybody say it was better than today’s NBA with a straight face? :lol Teams were scoring 120+ pts a night WITHOUT any 3 pt shooting :lol

In the 90’s it was less about solid defense, and more about a league with way less overall talent (imagine Glen Rice being an All-Star in 2019 :lmao), in conjunction with a huge rise in selfish, hero-ball play that slowed the game way down.

Lol Glen Rice would average 50 with today’s rules :lol
Open 3sssssssss all night :lmao

[Neo.]

Defense in the 80’s was terrible, how can anybody say it was better than today’s NBA with a straight face? :lol Teams were scoring 120+ pts a night WITHOUT any 3 pt shooting :lol

In the 90’s it was less about solid defense, and more about a league with way less overall talent (imagine Glen Rice being an All-Star in 2019 :lmao), in conjunction with a huge rise in selfish, hero-ball play that slowed the game way down.

:toast

[Neo.]

Lol Glen Rice would average 50 with today’s rules :lol
Open 3sssssssss all night :lmao

Lol steph harden or kd would average 80 with yesterdays rules :lol
Shortened 3pt line and swingthrough foulsssssssss all night :lmao

[monosylab1k]

Lol Glen Rice would average 50 with today’s rules :lol
Open 3sssssssss all night :lmao

Glen Rice exists in today’s NBA, now he goes by the name Jabari Parker

[lefty]

Glen Rice exists in today’s NBA, now he goes by the name Jabari Parker

Jabari is just a glorified Johny Newmann

[DC23]

Young had 47 as the Hawks lost by 10 tonight.

[Texas_Ranger]

he doesn't really have any help, but in the future will anyone even want to play with him? The guy is the worst defender I ever saw and I dont think he will get better at it. If he was taller you could at least hide him on some players that aint that good, but now when every team has a good/great PG or SG he is looking like shit out there.

[monosylab1k]

he doesn't really have any help, but in the future will anyone even want to play with him? The guy is the worst defender I ever saw and I dont think he will get better at it. If he was taller you could at least hide him on some players that aint that good, but now when every team has a good/great PG or SG he is looking like shit out there.

There’s already reports of closed door meetings where Trae is ranting to his teammates faces about how bad they suck, and how he needs more help. People on the Hawks are already starting to hate him and his diva behavior.

Meanwhile, Luka is playing with some garbage teammates but finds ways to prop them up, encourage them, and make them better. This trade is looking more like a slam dunk win for Dallas as the Hawks keep imploding :lol

[Texas_Ranger]

There’s already reports of closed door meetings where Trae is ranting to his teammates faces about how bad they suck, and how he needs more help. People on the Hawks are already starting to hate him and his diva behavior.

Meanwhile, Luka is playing with some garbage teammates but finds ways to prop them up, encourage them, and make them better. This trade is looking more like a slam dunk win for Dallas as the Hawks keep imploding :lol

i am not surprised his teammates dont like the guy. Also, even with that shitty roster Atlanta should have had more wins in the east. I dont think Collins will make them that much better when he returns cause Young takes pretty much all the shots.

Comparing him to Luka is just retarded. Even if Young averages 35 he will still be worse than Doncic. It's not even close.

[Clipper Nation]

In fact hand checking was outlawed in :lol today’s nba.

:lol No, handchecking was outlawed in 1994. Players still did it and got away with it, but that still happens even in today's league.

Handchecking isn't the problem. Players like Frauden, CP0 and Trae who get rewarded for flopping on every possession are the problem. And on the flipside, the league further incentivizes playing refball in the regular season by not giving legitimate foul calls to guys like Kawhi and LeBron who play real basketball.

[Neo.]

:lol No, handchecking was outlawed in 1994. Players still did it and got away with it, but that still happens even in today's league.

Handchecking isn't the problem. Players like Frauden, CP0 and Trae who get rewarded for flopping on every possession are the problem.

this, tbqhfwiw

:tu

the problem isnt nearly as much that the rules favor perimeter play, as opposed to players figuring out the loopholes, and the league not knowing how to fix it

no different then when defensive flopping became a thing starting in the late 80s and early 90s, yet people conveniently want to ignore that crap, and just pin everything that has gone wrong on today's nba, when the trend was started in the very eras they want to defend as being the golden era of perfect basketball where not one single flaw existed, where everyone somehow played both flawless offense and flawless defense, yet teams scored 120ppg despite the fact that barely 10 players in the whole league could consistently hit jumpers longer than 18 feet and elite point guards dribbled the ball up to their ears

:lmao great defense
:lmao great offensive skill

[Clipper Nation]

Defense in the 80’s was terrible, how can anybody say it was better than today’s NBA with a straight face? :lol Teams were scoring 120+ pts a night WITHOUT any 3 pt shooting :lol

To be fair, some of it has to do with the game being played at a fast pace, much like today's league. The average pace the last two seasons has been 100 possessions per 48 minutes, and teams are scoring 111 PPG on average. Those stats are basically in line with the '80s NBA that was played at a similar pace.

Still, the fact that teams in the '80s were doing this without anywhere near the level of reliable three-point shooting that today's game has shows how pathetic defenses were back then. Plus you had teams like the '80s Nuggets whose strategy was to not play any defense at all and just try to outscore everybody. Those teams made the playoffs every year and even made it to the conference finals once, while similar teams like this year's Hawks and Wizards are among the worst teams in the entire league.

[lefty]

To be fair, some of it has to do with the game being played at a fast pace, much like today's league. The average pace the last two seasons has been 100 possessions per 48 minutes, and teams are scoring 111 PPG on average. Those stats are basically in line with the '80s NBA that was played at a similar pace.

Still, the fact that teams in the '80s were doing this without anywhere near the level of reliable three-point shooting that today's game has shows how pathetic defenses were back then. Plus you had teams like the '80s Nuggets whose strategy was to not play any defense at all and just try to outscore everybody. Those teams made the playoffs every year and even made it to the conference finals once, while similar teams like this year's Hawks and Wizards are among the worst teams in the entire league.

Or maybe players were mote versatile offensively in the 80s rather than the D being bad
Today’s players should more 3s but they are more 1 dimensional and it’s boring
Personally I prefer the variety of moves midrange game offered

[Neo.]

Or maybe players were mote versatile offensively in the 80s rather than the D being bad
Today’s players should more 3s but they are more 1 dimensional and it’s boring
Personally I prefer the variety of moves midrange game offered

Aside from a few players, there was not a variety of mid-range moves. It was largely uncontested 14 foot jumpers bc there was a complete lack of defensive effort by most teams. Let's not revise history here.

[Jules_Winnfield]

There’s already reports of closed door meetings where Trae is ranting to his teammates faces about how bad they suck, and how he needs more help. People on the Hawks are already starting to hate him and his diva behavior.

Meanwhile, Luka is playing with some garbage teammates but finds ways to prop them up, encourage them, and make them better. This trade is looking more like a slam dunk win for Dallas as the Hawks keep imploding :lol



LeBron James for Monta Ellis and Mario Hezonja is a great deal for Dallas tbh

[Neo.]

im watching old finals games between the lakers and celtics, and its hilarious how anyone who has the ball at the 3 point line has about 5-7 feet of space because no one feared the three point shot whatsoever

wanna know why there appear to be a lot more open layups in todays nba than yesterdays nba? because people actually fear the 3, resulting in the defense not being able to just sag in the paint all game long. its not because "no one plays defense today!!!!! :madrun :madrun :madrun"

its simply much more difficult to defend today because of how deadly shooters and offensive strategies have become

it may not be as fun to watch for some people. i get that. but just because its not as fun to watch, doesnt mean that players are of less quality. the players have simply evolved, strategies have evolved. rules need to evolve with it. they probably should make the 3 point line even longer, and get rid of 3 second violations.

[lefty]

:cry Neo stop pls

[Clipper Nation]

Or maybe players were mote versatile offensively in the 80s rather than the D being bad
Today’s players should more 3s but they are more 1 dimensional and it’s boring
Personally I prefer the variety of moves midrange game offered
Teams are one-dimensional now because spamming threes is what works the best statistically. It's the league's fault that they haven't rebalanced their meta to encourage more balanced shot selection.

[Neo.]

:cry Neo stop pls

stop being a moron and making untrue claims

[lefty]

stop being a moron and making untrue claims

:lol today’s NBA
:lol soft
:lol teaming up

[Neo.]

:lol today’s NBA
:lol soft
:lol teaming up

:lol yesterday's nba
:lol unskilled
:lol retards

[lefty]

:lol yesterday's nba
:lol unskilled
:lol retards

Unskilled?
Today’s NBA :lol
Only skill they have is shooting wide open 3s :lol
Celebrating like monkeys after hitting a wide open 3 :lol
Low basketball IQ :lol

[ambchang]

Proof?
:lol You threw out a whole bunch of random arguments and then when someone else made an assertion, you went out to demand proof? Where’s yours?

Besides, Karl Malone did plenty of rip throughs back in the day, it didn’t work vs. the Bulls and the Jazz put up games of 59 points in the finals as a result. Rip throughs isn’t a new phenomenon at all, just that they weren’t called much in :wow yesterday’s NBA and players don’t use them because it is an unreliable way of getting points.

It was not outlawed in today's NBA. It was actually outlawed back in the 70s, then more enforced in 1995, and more heavily enforced in 2004. But the entire time, the rule only allowed it if it did not impede an opponents progress or momentum, but defensive players were finding loopholes (just like offensive players do with the "swing through") to the point that the league "banned" all hand contact, which is a load of crap because everyone still handchecks and generally doesn't get called for it. Anyone who watches the game can see that, but butthurt people like yourself just can't accept change, and want to blame everything on "the ruleezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz changeddddddd !!!!!!!11!11!1!!1 yesterdays players would average 500 ppg in todays league ZOMG!!!!!!!11!1!"
For all intents and purposes, handchecking was “banned” in theory only. Players like Jaren Jackson and Mario Elie made a living out of handchecking, but since the early 2000s, the league tried to tighten hand checking and as a result a number of defensive perimeter players no longer has much of a role in the NBA. Jaren Jackson essentially became unplayable.


Truth is, it would be comical the kinds of fouls guys like Harden and KD would draw against hand checking. Oh wait, they already do, because the moment they see someone try to even come close to hand-checking them, they have a counter. Guess that's why guys are now being told to keep their hands off of them. So how exactly would hand checking be an advantage against any modern scorer?
So you are saying that it took 80 years for players to realize they can get FTs by initiating contact, and they were just too stupid to realize it back then? Okay.

The A point is very true, most coaches (aside from Nelly) didn't understand the actual value of the 3 point shot, not just in terms of the points and averages, but also the affect it has on an opposing defense.
And how many titles did Nelly win? Oh, right, the players simply went through some genetic mutation in the last 10 years to suddenly be these amazing marksmen to allow them to win games on shooting threes, as if Rudy T didn’t already figure it out with Hakeem in the middle and three point shooters around him.


The B point is simply garbage. Tell me how exactly hand checking would help defend against a Steph or Harden step-back or pull-up 3? Tell me how exactly a flagrant foul for getting embarrased would help defend against a Steph or Harden step-back or pull-up 3?
Yeah, because hand-checking wouldn’t allow a defender to play the offensive player tighter, thus allowing quicker shot challenges.

Um, okay?
:cry I can’t respond so I will just put out a passive aggressive quote like a little kid

No, not in one day, but over the course of the past 15-20 years, perimeter and shooting skills have improved dramatically, with guys like Reggie Miller, Ray Allen and Dirk showing the effect of a proficient 3 in a scorers arsenal, and guys like Mike, Iverson, Kobe and KG setting trends in perimeter scoring skills.
And yet Miller and Allen never won a championship as the lead with their three point shooting, while Dirk actually won one after he dialed back his three point shooting, making an astounding 0.9 3s the year he won the title, and a game changing 1.1 in the playoffs that year. I wonder why he didn’t shoot more threes to win a title earlier, oh wait, he did, but that didn’t win him anything.
And Iverson, Kobe, Carter, TMac, Pierce all had a DRAMATIC increase in scoring output in the 00-01 season, when the league made a concerted effort to clamp down on hand-checking, but it had nothing to do with rule changes, it just happened miraculously to pretty much all perimeter players that year. They just decided to score more points because they all got less stupid over the summer.

Now I'm not denying that rule changes have encouraged more perimeter scoring, or that hand checking doesn't have any effect whatsoever. Just it's not the entire reason as people like you make it out to be. Players and coaching have simply evolved more years of history and experience have been learned from. Anyone with a brain can see that if you have proficient deep shooting abilities, it completely opens an offense up, while making a defenses job much more difficult. It's a lot easier to have a defensive gameplan when you aren't worried about your opponents shooting many threes. Not sure why that's so hard to accept or see.
Players and coaching “evolved” to styles more beneficial to them based on the rule changes. The beautiful game has been around since the 50s, and Adelman was doing it with the Kings back in the day. It didn’t result in any titles because the rules still favoured big men dominating in the middle.


But now, even if you know the three is coming, players are so good at it they can hit them consistently with a hand in their face. Or imagine having to defend a guy like Steph or KD, who is running at you full speed. How would you defend that? Do you play up on them 30 feet out, and risk giving up a wide open layup or dunk, or do you play off and risk them stopping on a dime and hitting a pull up three that they have a history of hitting consistently? How many players like that existed in the 80s and 90s? Few, if any. But now, nearly every team has a guy like that. And they don't even have to be superstars, it can be a role player like Seth Curry doing that to you. With players having developed a different skillset from a young age, it makes defense much more difficult to play.
Price, Stockton, Barros, Adams, can all shoot and drive. The difference is players were allowed to clobber them in the lane back then. Was it the right thing to do? Probably not as the game shouldn’t be based on thuggery, but that was the truth. Players don’t get to have a free lane in the basket then because once you get past your man, you will get your teeth knocked out in the lane, so perimeter players were able to defend closer. Billy Owens, Walt Williams, and Steve Smith were all supposed to be these big perimeter players who can handle the ball and shoot from outside, but none of them got anywhere.


I'm sorry, what rule was created for todays NBA that says "swing-throughs will now be called a foul, even though they weren't before" ? Oh wait, there was no such rule change, because it always would have been a foul, just most players never thought to try it much.
There’s something called enforcement. I am not sure if I should call you naïve or not.


:lol unintelligent neanderthals playing what we know as 80s and 90s basketball
Yeah, because players making millions couldn’t figure out they should initiate contact to get calls as they were just too stupid. Makes perfect sense.


Funny, that's how I feel when I watch 80s games.
When the Pistons made the defensive rules that set the 90s in gear.

[ambchang]

:lol No, handchecking was outlawed in 1994. Players still did it and got away with it, but that still happens even in today's league.

Handchecking isn't the problem. Players like Frauden, CP0 and Trae who get rewarded for flopping on every possession are the problem. And on the flipside, the league further incentivizes playing refball in the regular season by not giving legitimate foul calls to guys like Kawhi and LeBron who play real basketball.

But LeBron got PEDs so it evens out.

[Neo.]

:lol You threw out a whole bunch of random arguments and then when someone else made an assertion, you went out to demand proof? Where’s yours?

My proof is that refs have been calling it for years. You claim players used to do it and it wasn't called. So I don't have anything to give proof of.


Besides, Karl Malone did plenty of rip throughs back in the day, it didn’t work vs. the Bulls and the Jazz put up games of 59 points in the finals as a result. Rip throughs isn’t a new phenomenon at all, just that they weren’t called much in :wow yesterday’s NBA and players don’t use them because it is an unreliable way of getting points.

So the Jazz only put up 59 points solely because Karl Malone suddenly decides to try using it in the Finals? :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao okay yep I'm sure that's the only reason


For all intents and purposes, handchecking was “banned” in theory only. Players like Jaren Jackson and Mario Elie made a living out of handchecking, but since the early 2000s, the league tried to tighten hand checking and as a result a number of defensive perimeter players no longer has much of a role in the NBA. Jaren Jackson essentially became unplayable.

It is still "banned" in theory only, because players still handcheck a lot. And if the only way you have a role in the NBA is by handchecking, then that should make it pretty obvious that you suck as a basketball player. The fact that you can't see that shows what an idiot you actually are :lmao


So you are saying that it took 80 years for players to realize they can get FTs by initiating contact, and they were just too stupid to realize it back then? Okay.

To an extent, sure. Players have always understood the need to initiate contact to get FTs, but as time progresses, players and coaches continue to figure out new ways to initiate contact that results in legal fouls, due to loopholes/flaws in the rules.


And how many titles did Nelly win? Oh, right, the players simply went through some genetic mutation in the last 10 years to suddenly be these amazing marksmen to allow them to win games on shooting threes, as if Rudy T didn’t already figure it out with Hakeem in the middle and three point shooters around him.

No one said Nelly's particular style won championships. Just that he understood the value of the three-point shot. And yes, Rudy T made use of it, as well as Pop.

With more teams realizing a greater need for three-point shooters, it became a more valuable talent. Therefore, yes, in the past 10-20 years, more youth coaches have been focused on developing young players into proficient deep shooters. It's not a genetic mutation, it's the simple fact that playing styles evolved.


Yeah, because hand-checking wouldn’t allow a defender to play the offensive player tighter, thus allowing quicker shot challenges.

Well if a player is 30 feet out from the basket, and hand-checking by rule didn't allow for a defender to put their hands on a player in a way that causes any change in the offensive players momentum, then no it really wouldn't make a difference because at that point, Steph or Harden is simply going to blow past their defender going to the rim, at which point they either have a layup, or the help defense has to choose whether to help in the paint, or stick to the shooting threat they are likely guarding. And when you are camped in the paint with no momentum, while a guy is running full speed in your direction, chances are, you are going to foul them.

The deep shooting range puts defenses at the offensive players mercy. There is nothing that can be done except try to be physical and hope for the best. Watch guys like Pat Bev, Klay, Paul George or Kawhi defend. They are physical elite defenders who hand check all day long with no foul calls, yet generally can't do much on their own to stop guys like Steph, KD or Harden, except hope they miss.


:cry I can’t respond so I will just put out a passive aggressive quote like a little kid

No, I just didn't see the purpose in you stating that. It didn't really accomplish much.


And yet Miller and Allen never won a championship as the lead with their three point shooting, while Dirk actually won one after he dialed back his three point shooting, making an astounding 0.9 3s the year he won the title, and a game changing 1.1 in the playoffs that year. I wonder why he didn’t shoot more threes to win a title earlier, oh wait, he did, but that didn’t win him anything.

Again, no one said anything about winning championships. Just that they showed how effective their styles can be, and that they can have a huge effect on the game by adding to the spacing of teams, helping make the game easier for both themselves and teammates. While Dirk may not have had to shoot a lot of threes in his title run, his range was a huge part of opening the offense up by pulling big men out of the paint to guard him out at the 3 point line. And not just Dirk, but there were three-point shooters all over the place with Kidd, Terry, Stevenson, Peja, Barea, which helped guys like Chandler and Marion get all kinds of easy open dunks.


And Iverson, Kobe, Carter, TMac, Pierce all had a DRAMATIC increase in scoring output in the 00-01 season, when the league made a concerted effort to clamp down on hand-checking, but it had nothing to do with rule changes, it just happened miraculously to pretty much all perimeter players that year. They just decided to score more points because they all got less stupid over the summer.

:lmao you realize you are listing a bunch of hall-of-fame superstar players that were still in their first five seasons to that point, so yeah I think it would make sense that they made progression in their scoring ability during those years :lmao :lmao


Players and coaching “evolved” to styles more beneficial to them based on the rule changes. The beautiful game has been around since the 50s, and Adelman was doing it with the Kings back in the day. It didn’t result in any titles because the rules still favoured big men dominating in the middle.

The Kings lost to one anomaly of a big man in Shaq. Let's not act like players remotely like Shaq were just all over the place. Duncan, Hakeem, Malone, Robinson, none of them were ANYTHING like Shaq. In fact, much of what made them all special was the fact that they had some sort of guard-like skills in their arsenal, whether it was an 18-20 foot jumper, or fantastic dribble drive ability.

And let's not forget that the Pistons and Bulls were guard-dominant teams, and they won 8 championships. Neither of them were dominating teams with a big man down low on offense.


Price, Stockton, Barros, Adams, can all shoot and drive. The difference is players were allowed to clobber them in the lane back then. Was it the right thing to do? Probably not as the game shouldn’t be based on thuggery, but that was the truth. Players don’t get to have a free lane in the basket then because once you get past your man, you will get your teeth knocked out in the lane, so perimeter players were able to defend closer. Billy Owens, Walt Williams, and Steve Smith were all supposed to be these big perimeter players who can handle the ball and shoot from outside, but none of them got anywhere.

Massive exaggeration, lets not act like every single time a guard got into the lane they were clobbered with their teeth being knocked out. And playing styles back then made it much harder to get into the lane, because teams simply didn't give the three point line much defensive attention. Point guards generally would dribble up to the line, and their defender would usually be playing a good 4-5 feet off, often times even more. And it was smart on defenses, because no one was looking to shoot pull-up threes if they have the space, nor were most players proficient at it, because it wasn't something they were taught to do.

Today, defenders have to pick up a lot of players from 27-30 feet otherwise they are a threat to pull up from that deep. It never really became something you had to account for heavily until the past 10 years or so. Even when you had guys like Reggie doing it, most teams just lived with the law of averages, that it probably wouldn't be a shot players would consistently take and make, so why bother accounting for it? That just doesn't work with today's offensive players.

Again, different offensive styles have forced defenses to have to play different styles themselves. Defenders simply can't camp in the paint like they used to.


There’s something called enforcement. I am not sure if I should call you naïve or not.

Oh okay, well if that's the case then it completely throws your whole "hand checking" argument right out of the window, because despite it being a "rule", it's pretty obvious it's not fully enforced today when plenty of defenders are still putting their hands all over offensive players with no foul calls.


Yeah, because players making millions couldn’t figure out they should initiate contact to get calls as they were just too stupid. Makes perfect sense.

Yep, it makes about as much sense as calling today's NBA "soft" because they figured out how to initiate calls to get easier points. Or that they are "soft" because they realized that if no one defends you at the three point line, to go ahead and take that shot, especially when you can hit it at a 40%+ rate. Or that they are "soft" because now the rules (that were NOT MADE BY PLAYERS) are if you blatantly flagrant foul a person out of embarrassment, you get fined and suspended without pay for multiple games, as opposed to MAYBE being ejected for that night.

Or not calling yesterday's NBA "soft" because they were the ones who figured out how to initiate calls on defense by flopping to get more stops. Or not calling them "soft" because they are the generation that started excessive whining to the refs in order to wear them down mentally to get more calls to go your way later in the games.

But in your mind, all of that seems to make perfect sense. :dizzy


At this point, I've said what I have to say, and gave plenty of my points of reasoning. I've also admitted that rule changes had a hand in some of the adjustments. I just disagree strongly with your notion that it's the sole reason (or even the biggest reason) for different playing styles. There are many other factors that you just don't seem to want to acknowledge.

Nothing you can say will change my mind, and obviously nothing I'm saying will change your mind. I'm not replying to this subject any further.

[lefty]

Ambchang doing work :lol

[lefty]

Wether toy prefer yesterday's or today's NBA, we can all agree on one thing :

Today's NBA lacks rivalries

[ambchang]

My proof is that refs have been calling it for years. You claim players used to do it and it wasn't called. So I don't have anything to give proof of.

That is not a proof, that’s a statement. It’s like me saying my counterproof is that the refs haven’t been calling it for years.


So the Jazz only put up 59 points solely because Karl Malone suddenly decides to try using it in the Finals? :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao okay yep I'm sure that's the only reason
No, Karl Malone did it, and it then in the finals, it wasn’t called and they got embarrassed. It is not a consistent way of getting points, so players didn’t have it as a go-to move.

It is still "banned" in theory only, because players still handcheck a lot. And if the only way you have a role in the NBA is by handchecking, then that should make it pretty obvious that you suck as a basketball player. The fact that you can't see that shows what an idiot you actually are :lmao
If you are trying to argue that it is still let go sometimes, sure. This isn’t a case where ALL handchecks were called or ALL handchecks wasn’t called, but the frequency of calls have increased, leading to more and more difficulty in playing perimeter defense. Perimeter defense is no longer effective because offensive players have a huge advantage every time. This is not a secret.


To an extent, sure. Players have always understood the need to initiate contact to get FTs, but as time progresses, players and coaches continue to figure out new ways to initiate contact that results in legal fouls, due to loopholes/flaws in the rules.
People do rip throughs in local Ys for decades, sometimes it’s called, sometimes it’s not It’s not a “new way to initiate contact”. This is about the stupidest thing you’ve said.

No one said Nelly's particular style won championships. Just that he understood the value of the three-point shot. And yes, Rudy T made use of it, as well as Pop.

With more teams realizing a greater need for three-point shooters, it became a more valuable talent. Therefore, yes, in the past 10-20 years, more youth coaches have been focused on developing young players into proficient deep shooters. It's not a genetic mutation, it's the simple fact that playing styles evolved.
And yet 3 point % was .331 in 1990, .320 in 2000, .355 in 2010, and .355 so far this season. The number that did actually increased dramatically was attempts.




Well if a player is 30 feet out from the basket, and hand-checking by rule didn't allow for a defender to put their hands on a player in a way that causes any change in the offensive players momentum, then no it really wouldn't make a difference because at that point, Steph or Harden is simply going to blow past their defender going to the rim, at which point they either have a layup, or the help defense has to choose whether to help in the paint, or stick to the shooting threat they are likely guarding. And when you are camped in the paint with no momentum, while a guy is running full speed in your direction, chances are, you are going to foul them.
And that wasn’t true 20 years ago?

The deep shooting range puts defenses at the offensive players mercy. There is nothing that can be done except try to be physical and hope for the best. Watch guys like Pat Bev, Klay, Paul George or Kawhi defend. They are physical elite defenders who hand check all day long with no foul calls, yet generally can't do much on their own to stop guys like Steph, KD or Harden, except hope they miss.
You act like people couldn’t shoot in the 80s or 90s. The fact is they could, they just didn’t shoot as many of them.

No, I just didn't see the purpose in you stating that. It didn't really accomplish much.
Shooting, with everything else equal, did not improve over the years.

Again, no one said anything about winning championships. Just that they showed how effective their styles can be, and that they can have a huge effect on the game by adding to the spacing of teams, helping make the game easier for both themselves and teammates. While Dirk may not have had to shoot a lot of threes in his title run, his range was a huge part of opening the offense up by pulling big men out of the paint to guard him out at the 3 point line. And not just Dirk, but there were three-point shooters all over the place with Kidd, Terry, Stevenson, Peja, Barea, which helped guys like Chandler and Marion get all kinds of easy open dunks.
And Larry Bird was nailing threes in the 80s, so did Laimbeer. In fact, Laimbeer had the highest WS on the Pistons back in the day because his presence led to an open lane and opened up the Pistons offense, but they complimented that with elite perimeter play because Thomas can still blow past defenders with handchecking. Without that elite penetration, Laimbeer’s presence would not be of as great a use as handchecking on the other perimeter players would have offset it.

:lmao you realize you are listing a bunch of hall-of-fame superstar players that were still in their first five seasons to that point, so yeah I think it would make sense that they made progression in their scoring ability during those years :lmao :lmao
All at the same year, with that dramatic jump? Show me when Jordan had his scoring jump, or Lebron. Iverson was already an extremely high usage player before than season, and then all of a sudden, huge jump. Ditto for Pierce.
[QUOTE=Neo.;10016476]The Kings lost to one anomaly of a big man in Shaq. Let's not act like players remotely like Shaq were just all over the place. Duncan, Hakeem, Malone, Robinson, none of them were ANYTHING like Shaq. In fact, much of what made them all special was the fact that they had some sort of guard-like skills in their arsenal, whether it was an 18-20 foot jumper, or fantastic dribble drive ability.
So the point still stand that those same types of skills have been around for many years.


And let's not forget that the Pistons and Bulls were guard-dominant teams, and they won 8 championships. Neither of them were dominating teams with a big man down low on offense.
Laimbeer did make a difference as mentioned before. I am not exactly sure where you are going with this. Did I say guards couldn’t dominate in the past?

Massive exaggeration, lets not act like every single time a guard got into the lane they were clobbered with their teeth being knocked out. And playing styles back then made it much harder to get into the lane, because teams simply didn't give the three point line much defensive attention. Point guards generally would dribble up to the line, and their defender would usually be playing a good 4-5 feet off, often times even more. And it was smart on defenses, because no one was looking to shoot pull-up threes if they have the space, nor were most players proficient at it, because it wasn't something they were taught to do.
I can agree with the not-being-taught part. 80s was horrible in 3 pt defense because it was a novelty, but by the 90s, teams have figured it out, especially have Rudy T’s rockets.

Today, defenders have to pick up a lot of players from 27-30 feet otherwise they are a threat to pull up from that deep. It never really became something you had to account for heavily until the past 10 years or so. Even when you had guys like Reggie doing it, most teams just lived with the law of averages, that it probably wouldn't be a shot players would consistently take and make, so why bother accounting for it? That just doesn't work with today's offensive players.

True, and Miller never led the Pacers to the promised land, and only made the Finals once in that god awful conference.


Again, different offensive styles have forced defenses to have to play different styles themselves. Defenders simply can't camp in the paint like they used to.
I can agree to that.

Oh okay, well if that's the case then it completely throws your whole "hand checking" argument right out of the window, because despite it being a "rule", it's pretty obvious it's not fully enforced today when plenty of defenders are still putting their hands all over offensive players with no foul calls.
No, I meant it’s enforced more today, but not in the past.

Yep, it makes about as much sense as calling today's NBA "soft" because they figured out how to initiate calls to get easier points. Or that they are "soft" because they realized that if no one defends you at the three point line, to go ahead and take that shot, especially when you can hit it at a 40%+ rate. Or that they are "soft" because now the rules (that were NOT MADE BY PLAYERS) are if you blatantly flagrant foul a person out of embarrassment, you get fined and suspended without pay for multiple games, as opposed to MAYBE being ejected for that night.

Or not calling yesterday's NBA "soft" because they were the ones who figured out how to initiate calls on defense by flopping to get more stops. Or not calling them "soft" because they are the generation that started excessive whining to the refs in order to wear them down mentally to get more calls to go your way later in the games.

But in your mind, all of that seems to make perfect sense. :dizzy

Not sure what your rant is about. My stance is that the rules are changed in a way that it favours offensive players immensely, but the narrative is that the players are just somehow, suddenly immensely more skillful that they can simply do things players as recently as 10 years couldn’t do. Perimeter players all get the Jordan treatment now, and it’s disgusting to watch.

At this point, I've said what I have to say, and gave plenty of my points of reasoning. I've also admitted that rule changes had a hand in some of the adjustments. I just disagree strongly with your notion that it's the sole reason (or even the biggest reason) for different playing styles. There are many other factors that you just don't seem to want to acknowledge.

Nothing you can say will change my mind, and obviously nothing I'm saying will change your mind. I'm not replying to this subject any further.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. My stance is that this all started with rule changes, and over the course of the last 10-15 years, teams found this loop hole and exploited it. Players are now being rewarded for things that were not rewarded, or even penalized in the past. To say that players didn’t know they can just throw themselves into themselves to draw a foul for 80 years, and then just one day, someone did and exploited it was asinine. To not acknowledge the difference handchecking had on perimeter defense is just beyond me. Players have to play 5 feet away even though they know full well they are guarding deadly three point shooters is solely because of this.

[Neo.]

:lmao did you really just say the pistons complimented laimbeer with isiah thomas??? :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

:lmao isiah was on the team before bill :lmao

[ambchang]

:lmao did you really just say the pistons complimented laimbeer with isiah thomas??? :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

:lmao isiah was on the team before bill :lmao

Didn't phrase it properly, they didn't get Thomas for Laimbeer, but with Laimbeer it worked because the Pistons can penetrate.

[Isitjustme?]

Can't believe this annoying phaggot might be running the league in a few years :rolleyes

[Isitjustme?]

There’s already reports of closed door meetings where Trae is ranting to his teammates faces about how bad they suck, and how he needs more help.

Dang, make Trae Dallas and Luka's GM in the offseason because that whining worked out perfectly

[LkrFan]

:lol You threw out a whole bunch of random arguments and then when someone else made an assertion, you went out to demand proof? Where’s yours?

Besides, Karl Malone did plenty of rip throughs back in the day, it didn’t work vs. the Bulls and the Jazz put up games of 59 points in the finals as a result. Rip throughs isn’t a new phenomenon at all, just that they weren’t called much in :wow yesterday’s NBA and players don’t use them because it is an unreliable way of getting points.

For all intents and purposes, handchecking was “banned” in theory only. Players like Jaren Jackson and Mario Elie made a living out of handchecking, but since the early 2000s, the league tried to tighten hand checking and as a result a number of defensive perimeter players no longer has much of a role in the NBA. Jaren Jackson essentially became unplayable.


So you are saying that it took 80 years for players to realize they can get FTs by initiating contact, and they were just too stupid to realize it back then? Okay.

And how many titles did Nelly win? Oh, right, the players simply went through some genetic mutation in the last 10 years to suddenly be these amazing marksmen to allow them to win games on shooting threes, as if Rudy T didn’t already figure it out with Hakeem in the middle and three point shooters around him.


Yeah, because hand-checking wouldn’t allow a defender to play the offensive player tighter, thus allowing quicker shot challenges.

:cry I can’t respond so I will just put out a passive aggressive quote like a little kid

And yet Miller and Allen never won a championship as the lead with their three point shooting, while Dirk actually won one after he dialed back his three point shooting, making an astounding 0.9 3s the year he won the title, and a game changing 1.1 in the playoffs that year. I wonder why he didn’t shoot more threes to win a title earlier, oh wait, he did, but that didn’t win him anything.
And Iverson, Kobe, Carter, TMac, Pierce all had a DRAMATIC increase in scoring output in the 00-01 season, when the league made a concerted effort to clamp down on hand-checking, but it had nothing to do with rule changes, it just happened miraculously to pretty much all perimeter players that year. They just decided to score more points because they all got less stupid over the summer.

Players and coaching “evolved” to styles more beneficial to them based on the rule changes. The beautiful game has been around since the 50s, and Adelman was doing it with the Kings back in the day. It didn’t result in any titles because the rules still favoured big men dominating in the middle.


Price, Stockton, Barros, Adams, can all shoot and drive. The difference is players were allowed to clobber them in the lane back then. Was it the right thing to do? Probably not as the game shouldn’t be based on thuggery, but that was the truth. Players don’t get to have a free lane in the basket then because once you get past your man, you will get your teeth knocked out in the lane, so perimeter players were able to defend closer. Billy Owens, Walt Williams, and Steve Smith were all supposed to be these big perimeter players who can handle the ball and shoot from outside, but none of them got anywhere.


There’s something called enforcement. I am not sure if I should call you naïve or not.


Yeah, because players making millions couldn’t figure out they should initiate contact to get calls as they were just too stupid. Makes perfect sense.


When the Pistons made the defensive rules that set the 90s in gear.

TL; DNR tbh :lol

[Thread]

Unskilled?
Today’s NBA :lol
Only skill they have is shooting wide open 3s :lol
Celebrating like monkeys after hitting a wide open 3 :lol
Low basketball IQ :lol

+ applying decals without getting bubbles in the application.

[Texas_Ranger]

It was clear this atlanta team needed a new coach. The team is fucking great. I wouldnt be surpried one bit if they eliminate the process.

[lefty]

:lol yesterday's nba
:lol unskilled
:lol retards

true true