I'm Sure The Writer Is Wetting Himself

[1369]

Over the proposal for an IRL track as well as the sports complex, but in the KSAT report I read online it said that the investors were looking to put it by the SBC center.

Where near the SBC would you have enough room for a track, professional sized baseball field and professional sized football stadium?

[T Park]

IRL track?

As in Indy Racing League????

[TheWriter]

I created a thread in the NFL thread.

HollyHills bought 1,100 acres around the SBC Center and they would have an official announcement within 10 days.

I "thought" I heard that HollyHills was investing in the entire sports complex. NFL stadium, race track, and MLB (??) stadium.

[TheWriter]

From KSAT.com


Possible Grand Prix Race May Rev Up Sports Complex

POSTED: 2:00 pm CDT October 27, 2005
UPDATED: 3:08 pm CDT October 27, 2005

SAN ANTONIO -- City and county leaders met Thursday with officials of the Indy Racing League and an investment group to discuss the possibility of Grand Prix racing returning to San Antonio.

Although details are still being worked out, an official announcement may be made in the next 30 to 60 days.

A Grand Prix-style race was last held in the Alamo City in the early 1990s.

"We had a great meeting this morning about some exiciting possibilities for San Antonio," said Tony George, of IRL Racing. "We think that the people who have sort of been putting the thought behind this event here have done a very good job, and create at least a very interesting scenario that we believe could work. And we would be very interested in being a part of. "

But the bigger news is that the race may rev up plans to build a huge professional sports complex that would include a Grand Prix-style IRL track and a professional football and professional baseball stadium, a local spokesman said.

The group Holly Hills Investors is considering purchasing a large amount of land near the SBC Center that would house the complex, the spokesman said.

The sports complex would be built with private money and no public funding would be involved.

Officials hope the complex would lure a professional football and baseball team to the Alamo City.

"I've been in a lot of cities in my executive positions, especially in racing, and I have yet to see anyone equal the hospitality this city has," said Joe Heitzler, of Holly Hills Investors.

------------------------------

KENS had a more "official" report, stating Holly Hills already bought the land and would make an official announcement about the sports complax within 10 days.

[TheWriter]

Where near the SBC would you have enough room for a track, professional sized baseball field and professional sized football stadium?

All land owned by Bexar is up for grabs to be built on, excluding the the SBC Center of course, but the Freeman and barns are going to be torn down.

[T Park]

Sounds good to me.

House the Saints.

House the.......

Devil Rays?

[3rdCoast]

If San Antonio landed a MLB team I would buy season tickets. That is a fact.

[TheWriter]

Sounds good to me.

House the Saints.

House the.......

Devil Rays?

How is the MLB at handing out expansion teams? I've never been a big baseball fan nor followed how the league operates but the last two world series have really made me pay a lot more attention and I've enjoyed the game more than I ever had. Probably because I never paid too much attention.

I would def. go to a MLB game and support a team.

[T Park]

If they do a race, it better be an oval race.

Downtown, grand prix racing, absolutely sucks.


Its one of the reasons I hardly watch the IRL anymore is there wanting to do Grand Prix racing, with nothing but foreign drivers.

[3rdCoast]

How is the MLB at handing out expansion teams? I've never been a big baseball fan nor followed how the league operates but the last to world series have really made me pay a lot more attention.

I would def. go to a MLB game and support a team.

expansion is not in the cards. relocating either Tampa or Florida would be though.

maybe Toronto even.

[T Park]

How is the MLB at handing out expansion teams? I've never been a big baseball fan nor followed how the league operates but the last to world series have really made me pay a lot more attention.

I would def. go to a MLB game and support a team.

Who said anything about an expansion team?

The Devil Rays play in Tampa, they are poorly atteneded.

If a rich local SA guy could buy em out and move em here, that would be great.

[TheWriter]

expansion is not in the cards. relocating either Tampa or Florida would be though.

maybe Toronto even.

I'm good with anything.

I think it would be awesome if they got to use the name Missions.

[3rdCoast]

Who said anything about an expansion team?

The Devil Rays play in Tampa, they are poorly atteneded.

If a rich local SA guy could buy em out and move em here, that would be great.

If Florida does not get their new stadium, they will move.

[3rdCoast]

Florida and Tampa are both up for grabs in my opinion.

[T Park]

Toronto maybe.

The Marlins aren't goin anywhere.


Devil Rays IMO are the most logical plan.


I dont, however, see a MLB franchise relocating to SA.

[TheWriter]

Who said anything about an expansion team?

No one, I just asked what the situation was with the MLB.

[3rdCoast]

Why will the Marlins not leave?

I have seen on web sites that they are still having trouble getting their stadium approved.

If that is the case, then I think they HAVE to reloacte.

[T Park]

Florida will move to somewhere like Vegas.

Youd have to convince them pretty hard to move to San Antonio.

Especially since there is no liable alternative, if they move soon, seeing as this is all talk, no walk right now with these buildings.

[3rdCoast]

No one, I just asked what the situation was with the MLB.

Yea, currently, MLB will not expand. I think they are good where they are. Tampa Bay, Florida, and Toronto are the top 3 teams that would reloacte anywhere.

[TheWriter]

Get the Saints here, then have Red buy a MLB team and move them here.

[3rdCoast]

Florida will move to somewhere like Vegas.

Youd have to convince them pretty hard to move to San Antonio.

Especially since there is no liable alternative, if they move soon, seeing as this is all talk, no walk right now with these buildings.

Vegas, that is exactly what I read. Good to know we are on the same page. :tu

[T Park]

I just asked what the situation was with the MLB

Well, there is no expansion.

Contraction will happen before expansion.

[TheWriter]

Had we had this going for us in 2002/2003, the Expos would have been ours.

[3rdCoast]

Get the Saints here, then have Red buy a MLB team and move them here.

Right On.

Small market my ass.....

[T Park]

then have Red buy a MLB team

Red might be done buying teams.

If you could convince him to buy a team, Id beg him to buy either Florida or Toronto.

Those two teams are STACKED with talent.

[T Park]

Had we had this going for us in 2002/2003, the Expos would have been ours.

I don't know. MLB had a huge hard on for DC to get a team.
and DC supported them very well, so the town deserves a team.


Will be interesting, to see if next year the Nationals can improve, and if they dont, how the support will go.

[TheWriter]

What about Pace? A billionaire who has nothing to do.

[T Park]

Bring it on.

San Antonio Calientes.

[jcrod]

Bring it on.

San Antonio Calientes.


:lol Stupid, but i don't know why i kind of like it.

[exstatic]

It will be interesting to see how DC supports this MLB team after the "newness" wears off. They've already lost two teams to apathy and non-support.

OK, what does this investor group get out of building these stadiums? Teams want a venue to move into, sell naming rights, gobble up concessions and parking, and pay zero rent. What does that leave for the investor group?

[TheWriter]

Here's a aerial picture of the SBC Center and the area around it.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a396/insidethe210/sbcarea.png

As you can see, there is a lot of land/parking lot space.

I'm not sure how much 1,100 acres of land is compared to the picture but that is how much Holly Hilly purchased.

[jcrod]

Did they actually purchase it, or are thinking of buying it. Wow if they did. There does seem to be a lot of land to the right, are there houses there?

[TheWriter]

Did they actually purchase it, or are thinking of buying it. Wow if they did. There does seem to be a lot of land to the right, are there houses there?

KENS reported at 6 that Holly Hills did purchase the land and that an official announcement about the sports complex would be made within 10 days.

Yes, there are homes to the west and south of the SBC Center.

To the north is industrial land and to the east is a golf course,

[1369]

So the 1100 acres encompasses the Freeman/SBC grounds?

I just don't see how it would be feasible to place all four venues (I'm including the SBC Center) in that small of a footprint. When you look at other GP tracks, you're looking at a lot of needed space (Sebring Int'l os 3.7 miles for example).

[exstatic]

Again. Why would an investing company build MLB and NFL stadiums? What do they get out of it? The team(s) are going to want naming rights, concessions, parking, luxury suites, and NO rent.

[1369]

Again. Why would an investing company build MLB and NFL stadiums? What do they get out of it? The team(s) are going to want naming rights, concessions, parking, luxury suites, and NO rent.

I don't know. Maybe they're thinking something like a spec home?

[exstatic]

That's about a billion dollars worth of spec homes.

[1369]

No doubt, but you raise an interesting question that I can't see why anyone would do that.

[TheWriter]

Again. Why would an investing company build MLB and NFL stadiums? What do they get out of it? The team(s) are going to want naming rights, concessions, parking, luxury suites, and NO rent.

Because housing, office, entertainment, and a hotel will be built along with all the venues.

[exstatic]

Because housing, office, entertainment, and a hotel will be built along with all the venues.

Drive by Gardens? :lol That is a pretty shitty part of town, definitely our Ninth Ward.

[1369]

Because housing, office, entertainment, and a hotel will be built along with all the venues.

Would they close Pecan Valley, displace the Coca-Cola distributor, move the oil storage tanks?

Not throwing rocks, but where would all this go?

[TheTruth]

Red might be done buying teams.

If you could convince him to buy a team, Id beg him to buy either Florida or Toronto.

Those two teams are STACKED with talent.
THe Rays have some nice young talent as well...

[Carie]

Here's a aerial picture of the SBC Center and the area around it.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a396/insidethe210/sbcarea.png

As you can see, there is a lot of land/parking lot space.

I'm not sure how much 1,100 acres of land is compared to the picture but that is how much Holly Hilly purchased.
I think almost all of that parking is used for Spurs games. Maybe not those two lots to the left of Freeman on the bottom, and possibly not the upper left section either. But there has to be more room than this. What if more than one event is going on at once? Parking would be impossible.


Get the Saints here, then have Red buy a MLB team and move them here.

My pocketbook can not handle season tickets to 3 sports! Would be nice to have the choice to be able to make that kind of decision though. Must be what it's like to live in Dallas, 4 professional teams at your finger tips.

[Das Texan]

if the marlins moved to san antonio i would literally be in heaven.

[Marcus Bryant]

So San Antonio de Bexar is now supposed to be able to support a NBA, NFL and MLB team? Whatever, man.

What it sounds like is the developer intends to build the track and then seek out a deal with the city/county for any potential stadiums.

[HB22inSA]

Cue the broken record...

The city can't afford it.

Be happy with the Spurs.

Go on with Life.

[TheWriter]

I think almost all of that parking is used for Spurs games. Maybe not those two lots to the left of Freeman on the bottom, and possibly not the upper left section either. But there has to be more room than this. What if more than one event is going on at once? Parking would be impossible.

I'm not sure how much land is being used from that picture. It's 1,100 acres that Holly Hills bought.

[TheWriter]

Cue the broken record...

The city can't afford it.

Be happy with the Spurs.

Go on with Life.

You just opened the door to a 10 page shitfest.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's called reality. You guys seem to think that somehow San Antonio has turned into DFW or Houston overnight.

[TheWriter]

It's called reality. You guys seem to think that somehow San Antonio has turned into DFW or Houston overnight.

Was Phoenix a DFW or Houston when they got their NBA, NFL, and MLB team? Are they even one now? :lol

[TheWriter]

You just opened the door to a 10 page shitfest.

Lets now make that 15 pages.

[HB22inSA]

Please do not compare Phoenix to San Antonio.

Speaking in economics, there's no contest.

[TheWriter]

Please do not compare Phoenix to San Antonio.

Speaking in economics, there's no contest.

Huh?

[Carie]

I don't know if it's realistic or not. But at least let us be excited that they're looking into it. Come on, if you had your choice which sport would you pick?

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh, now San Antonio is just as great of a market as Phoenix? The hits just keep on coming.

[TheWriter]

Oh, now San Antonio is just as great of a market as Phoenix? The hits just keep on coming.

Again MB totally avoids the point and question just to throw another diss at the city.

His agenda is clear. Has been for a long time.

[Marcus Bryant]

I haven't avoided anything. You make these vague assertions that SA is on par with Phoenix and then back away whenever someone bothers to call you out on it.

Phoenix has double the number of TV households as SA, per Nielsen (http://www.nielsenmedia.com/DMAs.html). If you have a problem with their methodology, set up a firm and compete with them because obviously they are doing somethng wrong.

[HB22inSA]

He's not dissing the city, THeWriter.

He's stating reality.

Pure and simple.

[HB22inSA]

Look, TheWriter, I love your passion for San Antonio.

I've lived here for 11 years and I love it here.

But just because San Antonio is what, 9th, 8th, population wise, does not mean we are on par financially with the other major cities.

It took a monumental effort to get the SBC Center built, for a very cheap $200 million.

[TheWriter]

I haven't avoided anything. You make these vague assertions that SA is on par with Phoenix and then back away whenever someone bothers to call you out on it.

I never said SA was on par with Phoenix. I love how you put words into my mouth.

You said a city would need to be a DFW or Houston in order to have a NBA, NFL, and MLB team. I asked, was Phoenix a DFW or Houston when it got its three pro teams? Hell, it isn't a DFW now.



Phoenix has double the number of TV households as SA, per Nielsen (http://www.nielsenmedia.com/DMAs.html).

That's good to know. Oh wait, I've always known that.

[Marcus Bryant]

Ok, San Antonio isn't a Phoenix either.

[TheWriter]

[quote]It took a monumental effort to get the SBC Center built, for a very cheap $200 million.

And it didn't take Phoenix a monumental "I'm leaving for San Antonio (ironically enough) if you don't approve a new stadium" effort to get the Cardinals a new stadium?

[TheWriter]

Per 2000 Census:


Phoenix

The median income for a household in the city was $41,207, and the median income for a family was $46,467

The per capita income for the city was $19,833.

San Antonio

The median income for a household in the city is $36,214, and the median income for a family is $41,331.

The per capita income for the city is $17,487.

Phoenix isn't impressing me too much.

[HB22inSA]

Okay, TheWriter, but that's per capita or per family. Now multiply the $2,000+ difference by Phoenix's population and tell me how much more money is circulating within their economy than SA's.

And tell me if that is enough to build a new stadium, for anything, including taxes, parking, concession, etc.

[Marcus Bryant]

So Phoenix's MSA has a greater per capita income, median family income, median household income and, oh yeah, has double the # of TV households.

Yeah, no difference.

[TheWriter]

So Phoenix's MSA has a greater per capita income, median family income, median household income and, oh yeah, has double the # of TV households.

Yeah, no difference.

Those numbers are for county not MSA.

MSA numbers for both cities are higher.

[TheWriter]

And tell me if that is enough to build a new stadium, for anything, including taxes, parking, concession, etc.

The city isn't paying for the venues.

[Marcus Bryant]

The city isn't paying for the venues.


Don't be so sure. Obviously the developer is trying to get something out of the county.

[Carie]

Okay, TheWriter, but that's per capita or per family. Now multiply the $2,000+ difference by Phoenix's population and tell me how much more money is circulating within their economy than SA's.

How expensive is it to live in Phoenix as compared to SA? If it's more expensive then the difference is going to be quite a bit less.

But that still doesn't take TV markets and many other factors into account...

[Marcus Bryant]

Those numbers are for county not MSA.

MSA numbers for both cities are higher.


The point stands. Phoenix has the type of market that can support all of those teams.

[TheWriter]

Yeah, no difference.

I never said there was a difference.

Again, where the hell do you get your impressions from? Your interpretations of what I say are always wrong.

I said I wasn’t impressed seeing how you’ve put Phoenix at some kind of bar one much reach in order to have the big three.

[TheWriter]

The point stands. Phoenix has the type of market that can support all of those teams.

More TV sets, we got it. :rolleyes :lol

[TheWriter]

Don't be so sure. Obviously the developer is trying to get something out of the county.

They are?

Is that why the Holly Hills CEO said on KSAT during an interview, they would seek no public money from anyone.

I guess so.

[Marcus Bryant]

More TV sets, we got it. :rolleyes :lol


No number of emoticons can hide the foolishness of your argument.

[Marcus Bryant]

They are?

Is that why the Holly Hills CEO said on KSAT during an interview, they would seek no public money from anyone.

I guess so.


Right. They're just talking with local officials for the hell of it.

Sounds like they aren't asking for any public money for the IRL track.

[Marcus Bryant]

I never said there was a difference.

Again, where the hell do you get your impressions from? Your interpretations of what I say are always wrong.

I said I wasn’t impressed seeing how you’ve put Phoenix at some kind of bar one much reach in order to have the big three.


You stated that Phoenix wasn't a DFW or Houston, as if SA somehow compared to Phoenix. I was not the only one in this thread who read it that way.

[HB22inSA]

Hey MB, I don't think we can convince him.

[TheWriter]

Right. They're just talking with local officials for the hell of it.

They're talking to county officials for many reasons. They had to buy the land and they have a huge sports complex in mind. I don't think they'd ignore officials with details.


Sounds like they aren't asking for any public money for the IRL track.

And per CEO, the entire complex.

[TheWriter]

You stated that Phoenix wasn't a DFW or Houston, as if SA somehow compared to Phoenix. I was not the only one in this thread who read it that way.

No, I asked if Phoenix was a DFW/Houston seeing as how you made them the marker.

And the answer was no.

So in turn that shot your theory/logic to the ground.

You're the one who read what you wanted to.

[Marcus Bryant]

Fine, SA can't even match up with a weaker "marker".

[Marcus Bryant]

Here you go...




http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA102805.01B.indy_sa.24e7f5c.html

Race exec makes an Alamo City pit stop

Web Posted: 10/28/2005 12:00 AM CDT

Laura Jesse
Express-News Staff Writer

An Indy Racing League-sanctioned street race in San Antonio is a possibility in 2007, but racing enthusiasts shouldn't get their engines revved up just yet.

Tony George, president of the league and CEO of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, met with city and county officials and investors Thursday about the prospect of bringing a grand prix here for a five-year term.

"We had a great meeting this morning about some exciting possibilities for San Antonio," George said. "We think that the people who have sort of been putting the thought behind this event here have done a very good job and created at least a very interesting scenario that we believe could work."

Councilman Kevin Wolff said the plans between the league and HollyHills Development, the developer behind the deal, would be worked out over the next 60 days. They would then come back to present those plans to city officials.

"HollyHills would be the group that would pay the sanctioning rights for the race," said T.J. Connolly, a local spokesman for the company.

A potential route presented at the meeting would take the race through the near East Side using the Alamodome as a central point, but the route has not been finalized.

Although Wolff said the plan looks the best of any he has seen from other racing organizations, there are questions to answer and details to iron out.

"Is this a good viable thing for the city?" Wolff said. "What's the cost versus the benefit? If the cost outweighs the benefit, well, it ain't happening."

Wolff said he was pleased to hear George express similar sentiments when he told officials the race won't happen if it's not a good fit for the city or the league.

George said, however, that a San Antonio race would offer his company the prospect for expansion.

"South Texas and the Hispanic market represent the opportunity to grow our business and bring economic impact and vitality to what goes on here," he said.

Mayor Phil Hardberger, who listened in on the meeting by conference call, said the street race idea is very appealing and feasible since it has been done here before.

"I think San Antonio would love it," he said.

George indicated that problems from the past San Antonio Grand Prix, which lasted from 1987 to 1992, would have to be addressed to make this plan work.

The San Antonio Grand Prix was discontinued after five years for various reasons, including the disruption the route and street construction caused, and sponsorship problems.

In 1991, the Alamo Grand Prix Association scurried to secure a major sponsor after it rejected an offer for sponsorship renewal from Nissan Motor Corp., which had been the main sponsor since the first year.

Another contributor to the race's demise was the closing of Builders Square, a major sponsor of the event.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]

Wow. SA's gonna get new stadiums fo' sho'.

[TheTruth]

San Antonio Kicks every city in Americas Ass...

-Writer

[TheWriter]

Fine, SA can't even match up with a weaker "marker".

It's not a weaker marker, you're just too agenda minded.

[TheWriter]

Here you go...



Wow. SA's gonna get new stadiums fo' sho'.

You do know what a Grand Prix race is right?

This has nothing to do with the fucking sports complex.

Jesus do you ever want to make San Antonio look bad and boy do you want it to fail at every corner.

You are one sad person.

[TheWriter]

San Antonio Kicks every city in Americas Ass...

-Writer

Nope.

But someone did kick you a few times. That sentence made no sense whatsoever.

[Marcus Bryant]

You do know what a Grand Prix race is right?

This has nothing to do with the fucking sports complex.


You're right. That's because the idea that some group is going to build two new stadiums for SA without any teams locked in to play in them is ridiculous.

So the developer wants to see if the city will work with it to run some races down Houston St or whatever.

Big whoop.




Jesus do you ever want to make San Antonio look bad and boy do you want it to fail at every corner.

You are one sad person.

Sad? I'm not the one trying to suspend reality and make San Antonio something it's not.

[TheWriter]

You're right. That's because the idea that some group is going to build two new stadiums for SA without any teams locked in to play in them is ridiculous.

But its still happening whether you like it or not.


So the developer wants to see if the city will work with it to run some races down Houston St or whatever.

Well, I'd think if they want to have Grand Prix racing downtown, they'd have to talk to the city.




Sad? I'm not the one trying to suspend reality and make San Antonio something it's not.

No, instead you're jerking off to your hope of a city failing, to the thought of run down homes on the south side. To the per capita income numbers.

[Marcus Bryant]

You're hoping it's going to happen. The group is talking to the city about running races through city streets, not on a track.

Look, I have no interest in seeing SA fail. I do have an interest in having a rational discussion about these topics, not one based on rampant speculation and an abnormal lust for the city of San Antonio.

[TheWriter]

Maybe Marky Mark should watch this:

KENS 5 o'clock news edition:

http://www2.mysanantonio.com/multimedia/video/VideoPlayer/playvideo.cfm?action=view&skintop=display/dsp_top.cfm&skinbottom=display/dsp_bottom.cfm&type=nod&ids=33581&play=1&format=WMV

Tell me what she says towards the end. :spin


Another video:

KENS 10 o'clock news edition:

http://www2.mysanantonio.com/multimedia/video/VideoPlayer/playvideo.cfm?action=view&skintop=display/dsp_top.cfm&skinbottom=display/dsp_bottom.cfm&type=nod&ids=33593&play=1&format=WMV

[TheWriter]

You're hoping it's going to happen. The group is talking to the city about running races through city streets, not on a track.

Haha! So I don't watch the news in my city? Is that what you're telling me?

[TheWriter]

So, did Marky Mark leave?

No retort?

[scott]

Baseball sucks almost as much as soccer or watching people drive around in circles.

These are stupid ideas.

[Marcus Bryant]

Say you have access to oh, $1 billion in capital. Does building an IRL track, football and baseball stadiums (with neither leased to a team) on San Antonio's East Side sound like something that will generate a decent return?

These developers may have some institutional money thrown their way, but an idea like that is pretty piss poor.

[Marcus Bryant]

Haha! So I don't watch the news in my city? Is that what you're telling me?


I know you watch television news in your city. You also take pics you took of your TV during those broadcasts and posted them on the internets. There's a term for that sort of activity...

[CosmicCowboy]

All land owned by Bexar is up for grabs to be built on, excluding the the SBC Center of course, but the Freeman and barns are going to be torn down.

You truly ARE out of your fucking mind.

[Marcus Bryant]

CC, why do you hate San Antonio de Bexar?

[CosmicCowboy]

CC, why do you hate San Antonio de Bexar?

:lmao

Sorry about that MB...I have this bad habit of trying to use logic and known facts when I read and respond to some of these threads...

[Marcus Bryant]

You're either with San Antonio de Bexar or you are against it.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao

The Freeman/SBC facility and relationship to the county just happens to be an area that I have a lot of expertise in.

Writer made the flat statement of fact that the Freeman Coliseum and rodeo barns would be torn down.

#1) The grounds aren't 1100 acres. they are 146 acres.

#2) When the land was donated to the County to build Freeman Coliseum there was specific language in the donation that the primary use of the land would be to "promote agriculture"...This language was a big issue in getting the bonds to build the SBC approved...The reason that it finally got approved was because the rodeo occupies the SBC for a month and designated portions of the grounds year round.

sooo...no rodeo, and the County breaches the terms of the land donation...

[Marcus Bryant]

But you don't love San Antonio de Bexar with all your heart, so you can't possibly know about that which you speak.

And besides, you didn't post any pics.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's obvious what is going on. The developer does want a IRL race in SA. What the developer also wants are the local governments to assist it with procuring the site with such goodies such as the use of eminent domain and tax abatements and what not else if it does decide to build a track in SA. HollyHills is not going to build a facility without a race and it doesn't have to worry about that given its relationship with the IRL.

How better to get San Antonio de Bexar on your side than to give them the idea that you really would build them a brand new state of the art $700 million football stadium without so much as a lease with any team or event?

What's going to happen is that the developer will show its plans to build a new track on the site and then there's going to be two circles drawn in dotted lines. Those lines are going to represent where someone would build a new football and baseball stadium on the site if they were damned fool enough to blow $1 billion+.

They are counting on a bunch of little Buddy Hollys eating their bullshit up.

[TheWriter]

:lmao

The Freeman/SBC facility and relationship to the county just happens to be an area that I have a lot of expertise in.

Writer made the flat statement of fact that the Freeman Coliseum and rodeo barns would be torn down.

#1) The grounds aren't 1100 acres. they are 146 acres.

#2) When the land was donated to the County to build Freeman Coliseum there was specific language in the donation that the primary use of the land would be to "promote agriculture"...This language was a big issue in getting the bonds to build the SBC approved...The reason that it finally got approved was because the rodeo occupies the SBC for a month and designated portions of the grounds year round.

sooo...no rodeo, and the County breaches the terms of the land donation...

And what I've heard is that Freeman and all the barns ar eup for grabs in terms of being razed for future development.

[TheWriter]

It's obvious what is going on. The developer does want a IRL race in SA. What the developer also wants are the local governments to assist it with procuring the site with such goodies such as the use of eminent domain and tax abatements and what not else if it does decide to build a track in SA. HollyHills is not going to build a facility without a race and it doesn't have to worry about that given its relationship with the IRL.

How better to get San Antonio de Bexar on your side than to give them the idea that you really would build them a brand new state of the art $700 million football stadium without so much as a lease with any team or event?[/quote[

What's going to happen is that the developer will show its plans to build a new track on the site and then there's going to be two circles drawn in dotted lines. Those lines are going to represent where someone would build a new football and baseball stadium on the site if they were damned fool enough to blow $1 billion+.

They are counting on a bunch of little Buddy Hollys eating their bullshit up.

Football stadiums cost 700 million now? Nice job of grabbing any number from out your ass.

LOL at Marky Mark.

That whole post smells of sad depuration.

[3rdCoast]

Baseball sucks almost as much as soccer or watching people drive around in circles.

These are stupid ideas.

Baseball does not suck. What sucks, is your fucking blog.

[TheWriter]

You truly ARE out of your fucking mind.



County officials would like to see a plan that would build on the Stock Show & Rodeo's agricultural tradition, lure industrial trade shows the Convention Center can't easily accommodate, and take advantage of the SBC Center, which will not be changed. The slew of barns and outbuildings and even the 55-year-old, concrete-and-steel Freeman Coliseum is fair game.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/stories/MYSA101305.01B.Arena.181b7d90.html

[3rdCoast]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/stories/MYSA101305.01B.Arena.181b7d90.html

Nice work. Looks like CC got owned.

Seems like some of these tools are wanting San Antonio to hide from the fact that we are no longer a shithole sout texas town and are becoming a major force in all aspects.

[Marcus Bryant]

Football stadiums cost 700 million now? Nice job of grabbing any number from out your ass.

LOL at Marky Mark.

That whole post smells of sad depuration.


"Depuration"? Is that what it's called when you sit at home, take pics of your TV and post them online? Or is that when you claim someone else's pics as your own and post them in the fan forum of the boy band "NSYNC"?

I mean, the distance between the game you talk and reality grows by the hour.

[Marcus Bryant]

As for the price I stated, my source was the San Antonio Express-News:


A stadium would carry a price tag of about $700 million, sports marketing experts say. The Dallas Cowboys' stadium in Arlington, scheduled to open in 2009, is expected to cost $650 million. Voters in Arlington approved the raising of taxes to pay for $325 million of the cost.

"I don't believe that's a good use for taxpayers' money," Hardberger said.

But Hardberger didn't rule out the possibility of the Saints gaining a stadium in the area via other funding mechanisms.

"It could be, of course, that the state could get involved with that or it could be developers on their own right get involved with that," Hardberger said. "There are other ways stadiums get built. But as far as San Antonio being a player in the building of a new stadium, I wouldn't want to do that."


link (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/football/nfl/stories/MYSA102805.01A.FBN_Saints-Stadium.24e6ff2.html)

Try again.

[Marcus Bryant]

And what I've heard is that Freeman and all the barns ar eup for grabs in terms of being razed for future development.


The point is that the use of the property cannot be changed.

[CosmicCowboy]

Nice work. Looks like CC got owned

I don't think so. You know that "plan" they refer to? I have been a part of developing it. Freeman isn't going anywhere. Some barns will be replaced but they aren't going away.

[3rdCoast]

I don't think so. You know that "plan" they refer to? I have been a part of developing it. Freeman isn't going anywhere. Some barns will be replaced but they aren't going away.

THEN I NEED TO MAKE A PLEA TO YOU. PLEASE DO SOMETHING TO TEAR THAT SHITHOLE CALLED FREEMAN DOWN. IT IS A USELESS PIECE OF SHIT. PLEASE BLOW THAT SHIT UP AND GET RID OF IT.

[Marcus Bryant]

I don't think so. You know that "plan" they refer to? I have been a part of developing it. Freeman isn't going anywhere. Some barns will be replaced but they aren't going away.


Forget the news, you just heard it from a newsmaker, kiddos.

[CosmicCowboy]

Freeman is a perfectly viable 8000 seat arena. It just needs some infrastructure improvements around it to make it more marketable.

[3rdCoast]

The Outside Sucks. The Inside Sucks. Id Rather Have It Tore Down So I Dont Have To Look At That Awful Creation

[Marcus Bryant]

The Outside Sucks. The Inside Sucks. Id Rather Have It Tore Down So I Dont Have To Look At That Awful Creation

Hmmm...spend the $100K's to tear it down or leave it up and say "tough shit" to the kiddo. What to do?

[3rdCoast]

Hmmm...spend the $100K's to tear it down or leave it up and say "tough shit" to the kiddo. What to do?

I WILL TEAR IT DOWN FOR FREE. SAY THE WORD AND I WILL WORK DAY AND NIGHT TAKING THAT SHITHOLE DOWN

[CosmicCowboy]

Damn...you sure are bitter...did your high school buddies get to graduate there while you just got to watch?

[3rdCoast]

Damn...you sure are bitter...did your high school buddies get to graduate there while you just got to watch?

IT SUCKS AND U KNOW IT

[TheWriter]

"Depuration"? Is that what it's called when you sit at home, take pics of your TV and post them online? Or is that when you claim someone else's pics as your own and post them in the fan forum of the boy band "NSYNC"?

I mean, the distance between the game you talk and reality grows by the hour.

My my... where can I buy a shield that deflects everything?

I want one like yours.

[TheWriter]

As for the price I stated, my source was the San Antonio Express-News:



link (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/football/nfl/stories/MYSA102805.01A.FBN_Saints-Stadium.24e6ff2.html)

Try again.

So why is the Cardinals stadium only costing 300 million?

Explain ol' wise doorknob.

[TheWriter]

I don't think so. You know that "plan" they refer to? I have been a part of developing it. Freeman isn't going anywhere. Some barns will be replaced but they aren't going away.

That plan they refer to was a proposal.

And that plan is out the window seeing how Holly Hills bought the 1,100 acres.

And it was county officials who said the freeman and barns were fair game.

[Marcus Bryant]

So why is the Cardinals stadium only costing 300 million?



Probably because that one's near completion. Why is the Cowboys' new stadium running at $650 mil?

[Marcus Bryant]

My my... where can I buy a shield that deflects everything?

I want one like yours.


Funny, you seem to think you have one.

[scott]

They should include professional Cricket, Curling and Lacrosse stadiums into this complex.

[TheWriter]

Probably because that one's near completion. Why is the Cowboys' new stadium running at $650 mil?

Many different factors.

But no one knows how mucha new stadium would cost.

Esp when built in San Antonio.

[Marcus Bryant]

They should include professional Cricket, Curling and Lacrosse stadiums into this complex.

Should? It will. After all, it's the fairy godmother who apparently is going to foot the bill. No strings attached.

Yeah.

[Marcus Bryant]

Many different factors.

But no one knows how mucha new stadium would cost.

Esp when built in San Antonio.


Ha. In San Antonio everything costs 25% as much, right?

Time is the operative factor here. The Cowboys' stadium is scheduled to be completed in 2009.

[TheWriter]

Ha. In San Antonio everything costs 25% as much, right?

No, but when you have three active limestone quarries within the city...


Time is the operative factor here. The Cowboys' stadium is scheduled to be completed in 2009.

The bigger and more complex the longer to build. It's that simple.

[CosmicCowboy]

That plan they refer to was a proposal.

And that plan is out the window seeing how Holly Hills bought the 1,100 acres.

And it was county officials who said the freeman and barns were fair game.

My you ARE stupid.

Yes...certain barns may be torn down and new better multipurpose buildings built which could accomodate the rodeo but thay are not gonna tear everything down and build a football stadium. Another small detail you are overlooking is that the Rodeo still has 22 years left on their lease. Those barns or their replacements aren't going anywhere.

[TheWriter]

Should? It will. After all, it's the fairy godmother who apparently is going to foot the bill. No strings attached.

Yeah.

Might wanna take it up with HollyHills but you can play the cynical, bitter ahole all you want.

[scott]

See: Steel, price of.

[TheWriter]

My you ARE stupid.

Yes...certain barns may be torn down and new better multipurpose buildings built which could accomodate the rodeo but thay are not gonna tear everything down and build a football stadium. Another small detail you are overlooking is that the Rodeo still has 22 years left on their lease. Those barns or their replacements aren't going anywhere.

I'm not saying (even though I did earlier in this thread) they're going to tear down the Freeman and all the Barns. But as the county official said, they're all fair game.

Also, when the companies showed their proposals, the winning team had no Freeman in place.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm not saying (even though I did earlier in this thread) they're going to tear down the Freeman and all the Barns. But as the county official said, they're all fair game.

Also, when the companies showed their proposals, the winning team had no Freeman in place.

Whatever..I'm not about to post everything I know in here. Just remember that I am beer drinking and cigar smoking buddies with some of those county officials mentioned in that article and we have been talking about this shit for five years now. I know exactly what is and isn't on the table and I know what the budget range is.

[TheWriter]

Whatever..I'm not about to post everything I know in here. Just remeber that I am beer drinking and cigar smoking buddies with some of those county officials mentioned in that article and we have been talking about this shit for five years now. I know exactly what is and isn't on the table and I know what the budget range is.

That's good to know.

Tell your county friends not to tell the Express News everything sans the SBC Center is fair game so it gives you one thing less to bitch about.

[TheWriter]

I'm wondering what the fuck Marky Mark, Scott, and Stout would have done to themselves if they lived in Oklahoma when Oklahoma City created MAPS and from that proposed and built Bricktown and a 20,000 seat ARENA.

I think they would have hung themselves.

[CosmicCowboy]

That's good to know.

Tell your county friends not to tell the Express News everything sans the SBC Center is fair game so it gives you one thing less to bitch about.

reporter: "Are you going to tear down the Freeman Coliseum?"

county official: "We are just starting the formal planning process and are trying to keep an open mind at this time"

Headline...Coliseum and Barns Fair Game!

[TheWriter]

reporter: "Are you going to tear down the Freeman Coliseum?"

county official: "We are just starting the formal planning process and are trying to keep an open mind at this time"

Headline...Coliseum and Barns Fair Game!

Really, that's how it went down... in your head?

[T Park]

writer.

I think since he knows what hes talking about, I would take his word for it.


Chill out.

[CosmicCowboy]

mybad...Reporters never ask leading questions and sensationalize the answer.

I know the budget.

I know the tenants and what they want.

I know the area under discussion and in general terms what improvements are envisioned.

but don't let a little thing like facts get in the way of your football stadium fantasies.

It may be built but it damn sure won't be built there.

[TheWriter]

writer.

I think since he knows what hes talking about, I would take his word for it.


Chill out.

I'm not saying he doesn't.

But the fact that the winning purposal had no Freeman (ie. razed) shows that county officials don't care whether it stands or falls.

[TheWriter]

but don't let a little thing like facts get in the way of your football stadium fantasies.

It's not. I could care less if the Freeman stands or falls or how many barns get torn down.

Seriously.

Are arguement is empty, lets just end it.

BTW, did you see how much land HollyHills bought?

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm not saying he doesn't.

But the fact that the winning purposal had no Freeman (ie. razed) shows that county officials don't care whether it stands or falls.

you aren't getting it. That was a preliminary "talent show" and nothing more. Pie in the sky dreams to show creativity. Neither the Spurs or the Rodeo want that firm and they are the end users that pay the rent. Neither firm has been given budget or design criteria to work with yet.

[TheWriter]

you aren't getting it. That was a preliminary "talent show" and nothing more. Pie in the sky dreams to show creativity. Neither the Spurs or the Rodeo want that firm and they are the end users that pay the rent. Neither firm has been given budget or design criteria to work with yet.

I know that.

Again, I don't care whether the Freeman stands forever or is razed tommorrow morning.

There's no point in this arguement.

[CosmicCowboy]

The closest property that big that is even reasonably close is at I-10 and Foster Road about 8 miles from the SBC. Doesn't really affect us.

[TheWriter]

This is the land they bought:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a396/insidethe210/aerialsportscomplex.png

[1369]

Looking at your pic, I'd say the cleanup costs from those oil storage tanks are going to be a bitch. And doesn't that include the rail lines?

[TheWriter]

Looking at your pic, I'd say the cleanup costs from those oil storage tanks are going to be a bitch. And doesn't that include the rail lines?

They can't do anything about the rail lines, they'd have to incorporate it into the design.

[Marcus Bryant]

That may be the land they want to buy.

So now we've established that TheWriter knows more than CC about the Freeman et al, because TheWriter really loves San Antonio de Bexar and no one else does.

And having 3 quarries in town doesn't mean jack when it comes to the price of a new stadium.

What a provincial tool.

[Marcus Bryant]

Looking at your pic, I'd say the cleanup costs from those oil storage tanks are going to be a bitch. And doesn't that include the rail lines?


Not to mention a neighborhood where they'd have to get everyone to sell out.

I can think of a variety of things more important to San Antonio than building another fucking stadium 12 years after your 1st one opened for business. When you have streets that need to be repaired and schools that are in the shitter, building a new NFL stadium is kind of a low priority.

And no private firm is going to build a brand new stadium gratis. They are going to want the city/county to issue the revenue bonds to pay for it, with the city/county picking up any shortfalls on the debt service and the developer getting the equity in the facility. That may sound like a good deal to a young 20 something with a GED but to most people that sounds like a sham.

[TheWriter]

That may be the land they want to buy.

No, per news outlets, the land they did buy. :lol :lol


And having 3 quarries in town doesn't mean jack when it comes to the price of a new stadium.

Low cost for material.

[TheWriter]

Not to mention a neighborhood where they'd have to get everyone to sell out.

Or eminent domain.


I can think of a variety of things more important to San Antonio than building another fucking stadium 12 years after your 1st one opened for business.

I don't think Holly Hills cares what you think.


When you have streets that need to be repaired and schools that are in the shitter, building a new NFL stadium is kind of a low priority.

Cities can't do jack about schools and street repairs now have a large budget that will only get larger annually.

[TheWriter]

Marky Mark still trying desperately to find some way to make himself believe and convince the rest of us how this isn’t going to happen.

Come on Marky, don't you have some "project" to do. You're not going to pass to the 8th grade if you keep slacking.

[T Park]

if this is a private company building this stuff.

What does "More important problems" have to do with it.

If they are building it with their money, then why should "schools" have anything to do with it.

[TheWriter]

if this is a private company building this stuff.

What does "More important problems" have to do with it.

If they are building it with their money, then why should "schools" have anything to do with it.

Because he can't stand it, he doesn't want it to happen and is trying one way or another to justify his agenda. He thinks if he goes on and on with his propaganda that San Antonio just disappears save the Spurs.

[Marcus Bryant]

I don't think Holly Hills is offering what you think they are offering. Also, you said they already owned the 1100 acres and now you are saying they'll have to use eiminent domain.

Cities certainly can do jack about schools. It's a matter of public priorities and yours are out of whack, to say the least. I mean, there's more to life than lusting about big pretty buildings.

[Marcus Bryant]

No, per news outlets, the land they did buy. :lol :lol


Then why do they need eminent domain, as you just said?




Low cost for material.

You are grasping. That limestone may cost considerably more than other materials. This isn't the 19th century.

[TheWriter]

I don't think Holly Hills is offering what you think they are offering. Also, you said they already owned the 1100 acres and now you are saying they'll have to use eiminent domain.

They did purchase the land. But they can also use eminent domain.



Cities certainly can do jack about schools.

Manny schooled me on the subject don't make me do the same for you.

[Marcus Bryant]

if this is a private company building this stuff.

What does "More important problems" have to do with it.

If they are building it with their money, then why should "schools" have anything to do with it.


Because, T Park, that developer is going to try to build the facility with city/county issued revenue bonds and take the equity. They're going to use the public's credit to build equity.

Shit, I'm the side opposite T Park and Buddy Holly. That says enough.

[TheWriter]

Then why do they need eminent domain, as you just said?

Because of the people who won't sale their homes.





You are grasping. That limestone may cost considerably more than other materials. This isn't the 19th century.

I guess that's why most of the downtown buildings and all of the dome is built out of limestone. Because it's so expensive to crush it and drop it off 10 miles away.

:lol

[TheWriter]

Because, T Park, that developer is going to try to build the facility with city/county issued revenue bonds and take the equity.

They are? Proof? A news link? A Holly Hills statement? Oh wait...

[Marcus Bryant]

They did purchase the land. But they can also use eminent domain.

They didn't purchase the land, yet. That's why you said they had to use eminent domain.





Manny schooled me on the subject don't make me do the same for you.

Please. Post pics if you like.

[TheWriter]

They didn't purchase the land, yet. That's why you said they had to use eminent domain.

I said they could use eminent domain after you said they'd have a tough time buying all the homes.

Do you not read the shit you post?

And per local news outlets, HollyHills has bought the land and will make an official announcement within 10 days on the complex.

[Marcus Bryant]

They are? Proof? A news link? A Holly Hills statement? Oh wait...


What the fuck? Where's your proof? You make a ton of claims in this forum with very little backup frequently.

Yes, they are. This developer doesn't lust after San Antonio like you do. The returns are not there if the developer has to put in equity plus arrange for the debt financing themselves. That's why they want the local politicians to get on board. At the end of the day, the developer will get a hefty promote with minimal equity in on the deal and the public on the hook for debt service that the stadium revenues don't cover. If all goes well, that means solid returns for the developer and their investors, with very little downside.

Nobody is going to drop a $1B+ on a facility without any tenants without having a sweetheart deal like that set up. Especially on SA's fucking East Side.

[CosmicCowboy]

This is the land they bought:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a396/insidethe210/aerialsportscomplex.png

Now I know you are totally full of shit. That is not one block of property. There are literally hundreds of different property owners in that area. Union Pacific owns a lot of it, The Rodeo owns about 20 acres in that Area, Exxon has an oil terminal there, Alamo Iron Works owns part...plus hundreds of smaller properties.

[TheWriter]

What the fuck? Where's your proof? You make a ton of claims in this forum with very little backup frequently.

I give links to 99.9 percent of the shit I claim here.

I've already given ou enough proof dipshit.

Go watch the video links I posted.


Yes, they are.

Then show me the proof via links or articles you dumbass.


Nobody is going to drop a $1B+ on a facility without any tenants. Especially on SA's fucking East Side.

Go ask Oklahoma city about dropping bank on arenas with no tenants.

[Marcus Bryant]

I said they could use eminent domain after you said they'd have a tough time buying all the homes.

Do you not read the shit you post?

And per local news outlets, HollyHills has bought the land and will make an official announcement within 10 days on the complex.


That means they haven't bought it.

Do you know anything about development or do you just pose in this forum with a bunch of stolen pics?

You're the running joke of this forum for a reason, kiddo.

[TheWriter]

Aerial picture

Yeah, that's the land they bought.

[TheWriter]

That means they haven't bought it.

They bought the land. I know eminent domain is used by the city.


Do you know anything about real estate or do you just pose in this forum with a bunch of stolen pics?

The only posing going around here is you once pretending to be black.


You're the running joke of this forum for a reason, kiddo.

And I care... because I... :lol :lol :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

Just as I thought. You talk a big game but don't know jack about the business.

[TheWriter]

Just as I thought. You talk a big game but don't know jack about the business.


Dude... where's the links and proof?

Goddamn... quit talking to the young girls on AIM and bring the proof.

[T Park]

Cities certainly can do jack about schools. It's a matter of public priorities and yours are out of whack, to say the least. I mean, there's more to life than lusting about big pretty buildings.


once again, isnt this supposedly PRIVATE money??

If so, the city shouldn't give a shit what they build.

[TheWriter]

once again, isnt this supposedly PRIVATE money??

If so, the city shouldn't give a shit what they build.

But... but... but... but... but...

[T Park]

that developer is going to try to build the facility with city/county issued revenue bonds and take the equity. They're going to use the public's credit to build equity.




Wich is it.

Is holly hills building this with private money like they said, or is it using public money.

[TheWriter]

Wich is it.

Is holly hills building this with private money like they said, or is it using public money.

Whatever needs to be said to down play and eventually not make this deal happen. Whatever the costs, I'm sure he'll come up with it.

[T Park]

Ive yet to see a definitive answer wich it is.


Marcus thinks they are using Public money, Buddy is saying its private.

Wich is it?

[T Park]

Shit, I'm the side opposite T Park and Buddy Holly

Look marcus, debate it civilly or don;t do it at all.


Im not on any side, Im curious as to the facts.

If this deal, is PRIVATE, money, no public money, then what the hell, encourage the hell out of it.

It would hopefully keep the Saints and move a MLB team here, and bump our TV ratings up.

[TheWriter]

Ive yet to see a definitive answer wich it is.


Marcus thinks they are using Public money, Buddy is saying its private.

Wich is it?

Private.

[TheWriter]

TPark, have you viewed the video I posted?

[T Park]

no i havent, Im not on a good connection, I have a wireless PC Card, and it doesn't download video well.

What is the jist of the video?

[scott]

We should use money to put a bookstore on the southside first.

[TheWriter]

We should use money to put a bookstore on the southside first.

http://kevinremde.members.winisp.net/images/beating_2Da_2Ddead_2Dhorse.gif

[TheWriter]

According to the news, it will be a 75,000 seat stadium.

[3rdCoast]

We should use money to put a bookstore on the southside first.
tell em to go to wal mart

[TheWriter]

From another website:



It was Fox news [KABB] and they interviewed both Hardberger and one of the Holly Hills group head honchos.

The Hills guy basically said that it was a done deal that they have spent close to a million for studies of the area and that they were also going to move their headquarters to S.A. too because of the friedly people here who basically blew their minds with their corduality and friendly hospitality.

Hardberger said he was excited about the prospects when they came to him with the proposal. He had a smile from ear to ear, but also added that no public funds would be used for a stadium. He felt it would be fantastic for the community of S.A. and kept beaming a huge huge smile about it!

Fox showed the areas in question in and around the SBC Center and clips of baseball, football at the Alamodome, and racing tracks to illustrate their points of interest while the Holly Hills honcho told of how S.A. is the perfect city for this.

If this is for real, I'll be wearing a smile as big as Hardbergers.

[3rdCoast]

Good Post Writer, Good Post.

I Hope It Happens.

[T Park]

We should use money to put a bookstore on the southside first.




So a bookstore on the southside is more important than keeping the Saints??


I live on the southside, I commute to 410 and Ingram to the Barnes and Noble.

Bring me the football stadium and the NFL team.

[Marcus Bryant]

Look, it's not "private money" if the city/county issues bonds to finance the construction of the facility and then that debt is to be serviced using stadium revenues with any shortfalls covered by the city/county. Holly Hills is counting on pulling one over on some local yokels. It's not hard to see why developers love to go to local governments with deals. The developer gets all the upside and the local yokels take on all the risk. As long as the local government puts its taxing authority behind that debt, then the terms are going to be much better than anything the developer can get on its own.

[3rdCoast]

So a bookstore on the southside is more important than keeping the Saints??


I live on the southside, I commute to 410 and Ingram to the Barnes and Noble.

Bring me the football stadium and the NFL team.

I THOUGHT U WERE RICH, WHY DO YOU LIVE ON THE SOUTHSIDE?

[CosmicCowboy]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a396/insidethe210/aerialsportscomplex.png

Look guys...

I am not saying that some promoter didn't dream this up and try to sell it but I am telling you that this alleged "plan" has millions of flaws in it One of the biggest flaws is that there are 5 intersecting and very busy railroad tracks and a switchyard right in the middle of the property you identified. Those can't possibly be moved.

Part of it is also a flood plain.

Another problem is cost. Writer is saying they can use eminent domain to force the sale of the existing properties. Eminent domain is historically used by a government entity to claim land for "the public good"...widening a highway, etc. Although there have been a couple of cases of public/private partnership eminent domain federal rulings on the east coast recently, they are virtually unprecedented and usually end up at the supreme court for a ruling which takes years. I don't see this kind of eminent domain approval ever making it out of the 5th district. Even if they GOT eminent domain approved, they then have to buy the property at market cost. To acquire the properties, raze the buildings, and then do the necessary sitework to make this deal feasible could easily cost a BILLION dollars...

A similar deal was done to build Hemisfair in '68, but those days are GONE. It was federal money that did it under "urban renewal" programs that were in place at the time. Those programs are history. Lyndon Johnson and Henry B. Gonzales were huge players in Washington DC at the time and got it done. It ain't happening this time.

Anyway...I am not saying that a stadium can't be built, I am just saying the plan that Writer is claiming is a done deal is NEVER gonna happen. If it is built it will be built somewhere else.

[TheWriter]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a396/insidethe210/aerialsportscomplex.png

Look guys...

I am not saying that some promoter didn't dream this up and try to sell it but I am telling you that this alleged "plan" has millions of flaws in it One of the biggest flaws is that there are 5 intersecting and very busy railroad tracks and a switchyard right in the middle of the property you identified. Those can't possibly be moved.

Part of it is also a flood plain.

Another problem is cost. Writer is saying they can use eminent domain to force the sale of the existing properties. Eminent domain is historically used by a government entity to claim land for "the public good"...widening a highway, etc. Although there have been a couple of cases of public/private partnership eminent domain federal rulings on the east coast recently, they are virtually unprecedented and usually end up at the supreme court for a ruling which takes years. I don't see this kind of eminent domain approval ever making it out of the 5th district. Even if they GOT eminent domain approved, they then have to buy the property at market cost. To acquire the properties, raze the buildings, and then do the necessary sitework to make this deal feasible could easily cost a BILLION dollars...

A similar deal was done to build Hemisfair in '68, but those days are GONE. It was federal money that did it under "urban renewal" programs that were in place at the time. Those programs are history. Lyndon Johnson and Henry B. Gonzales were huge players in Washington DC at the time and got it done. It ain't happening this time.

Anyway...I am not saying that a stadium can't be built, I am just saying the plan that Writer is claiming is a done deal is NEVER gonna happen. If it is built it will be built somewhere else.

I'm not claiming anything. THAT IS THE LAND THAT HOLLU HILLS BOUGHT.

As for the train tracks, of course they won't move them. They can't. It's called intergrating them into the design,

[AlamoSpursFan]

Maybe I dreamed it, but I remember hearing about a FREAKING BOOK STORE ON THE FREAKING SOUTH FREAKING SIDE ALREADY!!!

Quit all the bookstore whining already!

[/tangent]

[scott]

Southside needs a bookstore. This matter is urgent.

[3rdCoast]

Why?

[3rdCoast]

So The Southside Can Have Another Building To Tag Up??

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm not claiming anything. THAT IS THE LAND THAT HOLLU HILLS BOUGHT.

As for the train tracks, of course they won't move them. They can't. It's called intergrating them into the design,

:lmao

Hollu(sic) hills DID NOT BUY THAT LAND!..

get over your fantasy!...:lol

[TheWriter]

:lmao

Hollu(sic) hills DID NOT BUY THAT LAND!..

get over your fantasy!...:lol

So according to their CEO they did. But according to you, they didn't.

Good to know.

[3rdCoast]

:lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

you are so incredibly stupid that it is apparently terminal.

Believe what you want to believe. Have you ever bought ONE piece of property? Do you know what a title search is? Do you know what is involved legally in a property sale? Much less the HUNDREDS of simultaneous sales that you claim Hollu(sic) Hills used eminent domain to purchase?

Why is it so hard for you to admit you are wrong?

[3rdCoast]

:lmao :lmao

[3rdCoast]

So according to their CEO they did. But according to you, they didn't.

Good to know.
:lmao THIS IS FACT. THIS WILL HAPPEN. THIS COMPLEX WILL BE BUILT.

[3rdCoast]

:lmao THIS IS FACT. THIS WILL HAPPEN. THIS COMPLEX WILL BE BUILT.
CC AND THE HATERS MAKE ME :lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

Ignorant people make me laugh too. I guess I should feel guilty but I don't.
Thanks for making my day...:lol

[3rdCoast]

Ignorant people make me laugh too. I guess I should feel guilty but I don't.
Thanks for making my day...:lol
:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[TheWriter]

you are so incredibly stupid that it is apparently terminal.

Believe what you want to believe. Have you ever bought ONE piece of property? Do you know what a title search is? Do you know what is involved legally in a property sale? Much less the HUNDREDS of simultaneous sales that you claim Hollu(sic) Hills used eminent domain to purchase?

Why is it so hard for you to admit you are wrong?

So when the CEO of Holly Hills Group says they have bought the land, I should believe you?

[3rdCoast]

So when the CEO of Holly Hills Group says they have bought the land, I should believe you?

writer knows his stuff cc, the deal is gonna happen. it will happen

[CosmicCowboy]

http://users.erinet.com/49042/Creative%20Ideas/Bevis%20and%20Butthead.jpg

yeah...me and Writer really know our stuff...hehe...hehehe...hehe...

[TheWriter]

CC... just being an idiot.

Great job though.

[SA210]

According to the news, it will be a 75,000 seat stadium.


Do you have a link about this specifically?

[TheWriter]

Do you have a link about this specifically?

No, this is what the Holly Hills Group CEO said on the news when he was interviewed.

[SA210]

So is this supposed to be as high tech as Reliant Stadium is or anything close? I would want something that we can use to bid for the Superbowl and the Olympics.

[Zombie]

So is this supposed to be as high tech as Reliant Stadium is or anything close? I would want something that we can use to bid for the Superbowl and the Olympics.
Yeah, the Winter Olympics here would rock! :drunk

[TheWriter]

Yeah, the Winter Olympics here would rock! :drunk

Is that snow?!

Nope, just sleet.

[SA210]

We could host the summer Olympics in the winter. :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, Holly Hills will build an indoor synthetic snow covered ski slope. Get a fucking clue.

This thread should be renamed "Droppings of the ignorant and naive"

[TheWriter]

Yeah, Holly Hills will build an indoor synthetic snow covered ski slope. Get a fucking clue.

This thread should be renamed "Droppings of the ignorant and naive"

Or, "Marcus needs a new life but it won't happen, ever."

I think that works the best.

[scott]

Does this company/group/association/knitting circle that plans to spend billions of dollars on this project have a website? Is there any evidence of the Holly Hills Group even existing? Many a Google attempt on my behalf have yielded zero results.

[scott]

Eureka! Putting HollyHills (one word) gets some hits.

Hit 1: HollyHills has purchased 1000 acres near Briggs Ranch in SW Bexar County and are planning a 4-star resort. http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/stories/MYSA100605.1E.hollyhills_resort.174b4888.html

Some other info from the article:


HollyHills owners Daniel and Marlene Bailey landed in San Antonio about two years ago. Lately they've been scooping up land and announcing extravagant plans for many of their sites in South Bexar County and East San Antonio. HollyHills also manages The Golf Club of Texas at Briggs Ranch, an exclusive golf course.

Daniel Bailey's background has drawn comment. Bailey, 52, pleaded guilty to federal mail fraud in 1987 in relation to a failed mortgage investment company. He got a 31-month sentence, but resumed his real estate career after leaving a minimum-security prison in 1991.

Despite Bailey's past, HollyHills' management is optimistic about the new project.

Hit 2:


HollyHills Development purchased two floors of the Broadway Bank Building with plans to make San Antonio its regional headquarters for all of the company’s real estate development work in Texas.

http://www.sacommercialrealestate.com/news/commercial-real-estate/hollyhills-buys-space-for-san-antonio-regional-hq/

Hit 10:
And finally, way down on page one of the Google results, we get their webpage:

http://www.hollyhills.com/

No content.

[TheWriter]

Does this company/group/association/knitting circle that plans to spend billions of dollars on this project have a website? Is there any evidence of the Holly Hills Group even existing? Many a Google attempt on my behalf have yielded zero results.


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

If only my life could consist of posting pics I took of a news broadcast on my TV. Then I would have a "life".

I know, HollyHills has promised new football and baseball stadiums in San Antonio de Bexar.

[scott]

Could it be that in someone's exuberance they confused the land that Holly Hills has bought (in SW Bexar County) with the land where they'd ideally like to put a sports complex?

Naaaaaaaah.....

[Marcus Bryant]

Hmmm...could HollyHills be taking the local yokels in county government for a ride to get what they want from them (ie tax abatements, use of eminent domain, etc...)? Oh, of course not.

More news at 10. (If you miss it, be sure to watch for Buddy Holly's pics of his TV. No, he didn't rip them off this time).

[TheWriter]

Hmmm...could HollyHills be taking the local yokels in county government for a ride to get what they want from them (ie tax abatements, use of eminent domain, etc...)? Oh, of course not.

More news at 10. (If you miss it, be sure to watch for Buddy Holly's pics of his TV. No, he didn't rip them off this time).

:lol :lol :lol :lol

Target. Now. Buy. Life. Get. Off. My. Dock. Very. Annoying.

[TheWriter]

If only my life could consist of posting pics I took of a news broadcast on my TV. Then I would have a "life".

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol


I know, HollyHills has promised new football and baseball stadiums in San Antonio de Bexar.

I know, you're envious.

[TheWriter]

Could it be that in someone's exuberance they confused the land that Holly Hills has bought (in SW Bexar County) with the land where they'd ideally like to put a sports complex?

Naaaaaaaah.....

Nope.

Holly Hills bought that land a year and a half ago5 years and in that KENS video I posted, you can see what land is what.

Next try.

[Marcus Bryant]

The kiddo's reaction to the rumors swirling about HollyHills is akin to Linus' hopes in the holiday classic, It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown.

Anyways, man, you post pics of your TV and you rip off pics from others and post them in a NSYNC forum. That's not exactly the best prerequisite for telling other peeps to 'get a life'.

It's the Great Stadium, Charlie Brown.

[TheWriter]

The kiddo's reaction to the rumors swirling about HollyHills is akin to Linus' in the holiday classic, It's the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown.

Yeah, and your actions are akin to Ben Stiller in that movie... what's it called? Oh yeah, Envy.


Anyways, man, you post pics of your TV and you rip off pics from others and post them in a NSYNC forum. That's not exactly the best prerequisite for telling other peeps to 'get a life'.

Get a life chump.

[Marcus Bryant]

Whatever, Linus.

[j-6]

Yeah, and your actions are akin to Ben Stiller in that movie... what's it called? Oh yeah, Envy.

Get a life chump.

MB invented Pocket Flan?

[scott]

Everybody Loves Flan!

[TheWriter]

Whatever, Linus.

Eat your grapefruit.

http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/dreamworks_skg/envy/ben_stiller/grapefruit.jpg

[TheWriter]

Everybody Loves Flan!

Hellz yes they do.

[Marcus Bryant]

Wow, I can post pics too.

http://www.flagsplus.com/flags/47961_Linus_and_pumpkin.gif

Try again, kiddo.

[TheWriter]

Wow, I can post pics too.

http://www.flagsplus.com/flags/47961_Linus_and_pumpkin.gif

Try again, kiddo.

http://evenstar.sunshine-days.co.uk/images/collages/envy.jpg

http://www.massekommunikation.dk/klik/illu10%5Cenvy.jpg

http://www.thatsmyshirt.com/images/Jealous%20Baby.jpg

http://www.gorillaspeak.com/images/jealous-ani.gif

http://www.paulsview.com/images/jealousy.jpeg

http://scs.une.edu.au/StudentFiles/HomePages/312_2_02/lesley_webpage/Jealousy-SP2.jpg

[Marcus Bryant]

Crystal meth or freon? You decide.

[TheWriter]

Crystal meth or freon? You decide.

Flan.

[j-6]

Well Scott, I found this in my googling exploits.

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Y8USKPL_J9UJ:sanantonioedf.com/Directories/ViewUser.asp%3FUserID%3D914%26GroupID%3D4+%22%40ho llyhills.com%22&hl=en&client=opera



Company: Hollyhills Development Inc.
Name: Daniel Bailey
Title: President
Company Type: Construction, Developer, Home Builder, Project/Construction Management, Real Estate, Real Estate Developer
Address: 419 North Larchmont #58
Los Angeles, CA 90068
Contact Us: Daniel Bailey
Phone: (760) 325-1877
Fax: (760) 325-5814
Email: [email protected]


I wrote Bailey an email. If he replies, I'll post his answer here.

Dear Daniel,

I frequent a San Antonio Spurs message board where your business interests in Southwest Bexar County have become a hot topic for some stupid reason. As a former guest of the federal penal system, I'm sure you understand the need for secrecy in your business dealings, especially in a high-stakes game like property development.

My point is to forewarn you before some amateur city managers get ahold of your idea and pimp it to the heavens. They even have a forum on the internets where they gather like the bats under the Congress Street Bridge in Austin, then spread it to unsuspecting areas like the beady-eyed diseased vermin I'm alluding to.

I wish you the best of luck on whatever the hell you are doing with whatever land you're speculating about. Actually, I don't really care, but I bet shady rich ex-felons get a lot of pussy, so I want to stay on your good side.

Regards,

j-6

[TheWriter]

Ohmigod! Ohmigod! You sent that? You said that? Ohmigod! I can't believe you sent that! You're crazy! Ohmigod!

[scott]

Das some funny shit.

[TheWriter]

Das some funny shit.

Yep. he should be writing for Leno.

[MannyIsGod]

This thread is fucking classic! From the moment I saw it posted, I avoided it because I knew the path it would lead this forum down.

How did I know? Because any thread with Buddy Holly and development is going to be fought the same way:

The Writer will say San Antonio can do it, and the rest of the forum will be realistic.

It is hillarious that The Writer says the city will have to use Eminant Domain even though he claims Holly Hills has already purchased the land. What is really suprising is that there has been no major reporting done about it even though so many different pieces of property were purchased including a neighborhood. I wonder why those people are still living in those homes if they already sold out. Then again, the city will probably have to invoke ED to make them move.

Maybe The Writer will now be inspired to go look up the way ED actually works. And while the city might have the ability to do what The Writer proposes (because there is no way in hell that land he outlined has been bought by HollyHills) according to the SCOTUS I believe there has been a law passed in the Texas legislature prohibting just such action. The law was proposed and passed - if I remember correctly - right after the outrageous ruling by the SCOTUS allowing local governments to sieze private property in favor of a developers usage.

And of course, Buddy Holly sees no problem with this. His wet dream will no be stopped by the concerns of people who might not want to sell their homes.

It was also amusing to see the dipshit argue with CC on a subject that CC is actually in the loop about. The Writer may trust KENS more than an actual source, but that is only because he's a clueless fucking moron.

And the icing on the cake was a bunch of idiots not realizing Scott's joke about the bookstore. Some of you make my head hurt with your never ending stupidity.

Keep up the good work!

[scott]

Added bonus: when interviewed in Buddy's KENS video, the residents of the areas outlined are completely oblivious to the fact that their houses have apparently been sold to be turned into a pro badmitton stadium.

[scott]

And oh yeah...


In Texas, Gov. Rick Perry signed a bill that passed during a special session this summer that limits state and local governments from seizing land for economic development.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/washington/stories/102005dnnatdomain.1735ee80.html

[Marcus Bryant]

Nicely put, Manuel. The only thing I'd add is that when BH can't respond to a point made by a poster, he resorts to namecalling and posting pics.

[TheWriter]

I see many of you who were picked on, bullied, and harassed in school now take advantage of the clandestine nature of the internet to asked like pricks.

Good job.

[TheWriter]

Nicely put, Manuel. The only thing I'd add is that when BH can't respond to a point made by a poster, he resorts to namecalling and posting pics.

Nope. Just the facts.

And I will take the words of the Holly Hills Group CEO over yours, Manny's, Scotts, and whomever other tool that lies in your little sheep herd.

[TheWriter]

And oh yeah...



http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/washington/stories/102005dnnatdomain.1735ee80.html

Seeing how HollyHills bought the land, I don't think this implies.

[Kori Ellis]

I see many of you who were picked on, bullied, and harassed in school now take advantage of the clandestine nature of the internet to asked like pricks.

Good job.

Oh please!!! You can dish it out now but you can't take it.

You live to make fun of people and cause trouble on the net. And now you get called out and everyone else are pricks?

Please.

[TheWriter]

Oh please!!! You can dish it out now but you can't take it.

You live to make fun of people and cause trouble on the net. And now you get called out and everyone else are pricks?

Please.

I can't take it? :lol :lol

And I got called out on what?

Exactly...

[Marcus Bryant]

I see many of you who were picked on, bullied, and harassed in school now take advantage of the clandestine nature of the internet to asked like pricks.

Good job.


There's only one participant in this thread who fits that profile, Linus.

[Kori Ellis]

I get called out on what?

Exactly... next.


What's the "next" about?

Obviously you are responded to getting called out in this thread, whether you are rightfully getting called out or not is another story.