What has DJ Insta ever accomplished tbh?

[Calispursfan11]

Tbh, he’s long and athletic and he had some moments during the playoffs last year but I don’t get why everyone including the mainstream media (which never gives the Spurs players any props) labeled him as the second coming. He is totally unproven. At this point Derrick White has shown much more that he can be a go to anchor and steady scorer, distributor and defender than InstaMurray. I don’t really see a place for Murray when he comes back unless the Spurs unload DDR. Keeping DDR, Murray and Aldridge as starters would put too many bad long-range shooters on the starting roster and make us a perpetually small lineup but without the ability to shoot. I don’t see it working out. Either DDR or DJInsta will have to go but White isn’t going anywhere.

[Rusty]

DJ InstaThot has potential but his jump shot needs improvement

[Calispursfan11]

He can improve it about as much as Dwight Howard can.

[spursistan]

If he busts next season and forces White to take a step back in development, Murray is going to be hated on a la 2015-17 Porker..

[4lifecowboy]

Murray is young, an elite defender, a great finisher, arguably the most athletic player on the team (Walker being the only rival) and you people are suggesting we get rid of him. Wake up! Him and White will be one of the most dynamic back courts next year and for years to come. I for one can't wait to see them clamp down on the likes of the splash brothers. You guys seem to worry about how they fit the way other teams play, the Spurs have never played to the trends of the league, our playing style evolves with the strength of our roster. Next year look for our fast break points to increase and back court defensive pressure to increase because that is the dynamic Murray will bring.

[spursparker9]

Endorsed by King James

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Murray is young, an elite defender, a great finisher, arguably the most athletic player on the team (Walker being the only rival) and you people are suggesting we get rid of him. Wake up! Him and White will be one of the most dynamic back courts next year and for years to come. I for one can't wait to see them clamp down on the likes of the splash brothers. You guys seem to worry about how they fit the way other teams play, the Spurs have never played to the trends of the league, our playing style evolves with the strength of our roster. Next year look for our fast break points to increase and back court defensive pressure to increase because that is the dynamic Murray will bring.

Thank you for saving me from posting how I felt on this thread. People on here are acting like these young players are 5 or 6 year vets or something. Lol. Players can get better even some long in the tooth vets. These guys are still on rookie deals and people are basing them already

[sasaint]

He can improve it about as much as Dwight Howard can.

I think the jury is still out. Shooting is one skill that can definitely be improved.

[sasaint]

Tbh, he’s long and athletic and he had some moments during the playoffs last year but I don’t get why everyone including the mainstream media (which never gives the Spurs players any props) labeled him as the second coming. He is totally unproven. At this point Derrick White has shown much more that he can be a go to anchor and steady scorer, distributor and defender than InstaMurray. I don’t really see a place for Murray when he comes back unless the Spurs unload DDR. Keeping DDR, Murray and Aldridge as starters would put too many bad long-range shooters on the starting roster and make us a perpetually small lineup but without the ability to shoot. I don’t see it working out. Either DDR or DJInsta will have to go but White isn’t going anywhere.

I have been arguing since the beginning of the new (calendar) year that DeMar should be moved and his salary dedicated to the SF position - 1 or even 2 players. IF Dijon has developed a 3-ball, DeMar is the expendable player. But I think we all know that Pop isn't going to move the prize he got in the Number 2 trade.

[skin27]

I have been arguing since the beginning of the new (calendar) year that DeMar should be moved and his salary dedicated to the SF position - 1 or even 2 players. IF Dijon has developed a 3-ball, DeMar is the expendable player. But I think we all know that Pop isn't going to move the prize he got in the Number 2 trade.


For now derozan is better than Murray..spurs can’t move demar unless they trade him for an allstar caliber player.

aldridg and derozan are stiil the two best players on team.

[sasaint]

For now derozan is better than Murray..spurs can’t move demar unless they trade him for an allstar caliber player.

aldridg and derozan are stiil the two best players on team.

That's the consensus opinion. But DeMar is not an all-star, and it is folly to expect him to fetch an all-star in trade. He is not worth $27MM or worthy of being the highest paid player on the team. As I said, I hope he spends several thousand hours in the gym with Chip this offseason. He needs a good 3-ball.

[skin27]

That's the consensus opinion. But DeMar is not an all-star, and it is folly to expect him to fetch an all-star in trade. He is not worth $27MM or worthy of being the highest paid player on the team. As I said, I hope he spends several thousand hours in the gym with Chip this offseason. He needs a good 3-ball.

but demar is still better than Murray.. for now spurs can’t remove demar for murray .. it’s either white or Murray..

[Leetonidas]

Uh he accomplished making the all nba defensive team in his second year, something Kawhi leonard did not even do. What kind of stupid thread is this

[sasaint]

but demar is still better than Murray.. for now spurs can’t remove demar for murray .. it’s either white or Murray..

It is definitely NOT White OR Murray. Those guys are the keepers. Yeah, DeMar is better at the moment on offense, but Murray is definitely better on defense.

You follow the New England Patriots at all?

[skin27]

It is definitely NOT White OR Murray. Those guys are the keepers. Yeah, DeMar is better at the moment on offense, but Murray is definitely better on defense.

You follow the New England Patriots at all?


demar is the better player than Murray..we have white now who is a good defender so we don’t need Murray who doesn’t have any offense.


its white or Murray..

if murray prove he’sa Better player than demar next season then I will agree with you.

[KDKSpurs24]

Stop talking as if we’ve seen his progress or lack of progress.. Just wait and see!! Damn.. focus on this season for now.

[r0drig0lac]

demar is the better player than Murray..we have white now who is a good defender so we don’t need Murray who doesn’t have any offense.


its white or Murray..

if murray prove he’sa Better player than demar next season then I will agree with you.
so you consider White a better player than Derozan?

[Chinook]

I do think people remember Murray as being better than he was. Offensively, he was very limited, and in most games, he'd score only exclusively on put-backs. Sure, he had his highlights on drives, but he was also way too skinny to finish through contact most of the time. He could collect 10 or 12 points without you realizing it because of how many rebounds he tip in, but for a starting point guard, those "quiet points" don't really make sense. Defensively, he was much less consistent than White. Murray had some really high-steal or high-block games, but 55 or his 81 games last year had one or no steals, and 56 games had him not get a single block. In 42 games, he got one or no steals AND zero blocks. This does not count deflections that didn't end up as a block or steal, actually, and it would be unfair not to mention that even the threat of him getting in the passing lanes eventually changed ways teams approached passing around him. But Murray was a young guy who had his share of defensive duds mixed in with some really great performances.

He also had below-average man-defense stats (which NBA.com has taken down [for all players, not just DeJounte] this year for some reason). Maybe in a more esoteric way, Murray was a superman for the defense, but he wasn't a shut-down guy. He was much more like a big who happens to be a guard than he was a legit wing stopper. That's mostly fine, because one-on-one D is not as important nowadays. But people will look at White's tremendous man-D and think, "Well Murray had higher defensive metrics, so he must have been doing what White was doing but better," when in reality, they do different things on the court on both ends, not just offensively. Also, Murray gets a disproportionate amount of credit for the defense last year. He was a big part, but he was part of a roster with multiple elite defenders. Green and Anderson were elite impact defenders two years ago, and they are still elite this year.

Obviously, this isn't a reason to attack Murray. I actually really like his leadership, even if it's just for the cameras. A team of introverted people needs a spokesperson. The LMA incident might be overstated, but the willingness to step in is important for a guy who wants to be the face of the franchise long term. On the court, what he's good at, he's REALLY good at. If he can become solid in the critical guard areas while remaining where he is in the others, he could be a really good individual player. But the player he was in 2017-2018 isn't an instant starter. Replace that Murray with this White, and the D remains elite while the offense becomes more dynamic. Murray's energy, rebounding and defense could really help a bench that has trouble boarding and has no one on the perimeter who would even be average on defense. He still get to share the court with White, and in that time, they could start to develop chemistry. If they can find a way to score at a good pace with those guys together, then you can think of starting Murray. But White should have the incumbent advantage going into camp, not DeJounte.

[skin27]

so you consider White a better player than Derozan?

not yet..if white can score 20pts a game on a consistent basis then we have a discussion.

We’ll know it next season.

[duncan2k5]

White is significantly older and we only know he is this good because of injury... He wasn't even playing to the beginning of the season...

Last year when he was playing a good bit of ppl on here were bashing him...

My point being white is now about 25, and we only know how good he is because he got a lot of playing time this season be necessity (I'm on record for wanting him to be played rotation minutes since his rookie year)... We have no idea what Murray would have brought since he is injured, and let's not forget he is a lot younger... In 2/3 years i see Murray being putting up numbers at least as good as White's

[skin27]

I have a feeling murray will start and white will come off the bench next season.

[Play Boban]

Tbh, he’s long and athletic and he had some moments during the playoffs last year but I don’t get why everyone including the mainstream media (which never gives the Spurs players any props) labeled him as the second coming. He is totally unproven. At this point Derrick White has shown much more that he can be a go to anchor and steady scorer, distributor and defender than InstaMurray. I don’t really see a place for Murray when he comes back unless the Spurs unload DDR. Keeping DDR, Murray and Aldridge as starters would put too many bad long-range shooters on the starting roster and make us a perpetually small lineup but without the ability to shoot. I don’t see it working out. Either DDR or DJInsta will have to go but White isn’t going anywhere.

Truth nuke.

[Gagnrath]

A starting line-up of Murray,White, DDR, LMA, and Poetel is a decent starting line-up. White has range for 3s as does LMA for a power-forward. Murray in the post season and preseason was also showing improved shooting. DDR is hesitant to shoot threes but isn't bad at it. Its a dynamic line-up that can effectively shoot threes is they are there but isn't ridiculously long shot happy like so much of the league. All of the long rebounds lead to lots of fast break points as well.

Add in a second unit that is 3 point strong with gunners some of whom deservebfairly heavy minutes like Bertans (can match up with power forwards and a lot of small forwards.) and Gay (would be a starter but durability questions and his leadership heading the second unit). The team does have a lack of a natural small forward, but I argue DDR over the next 2 or 3 years is going to match up better there than as a 2 and bertans and gay are both good for some pretty regular minutes in that role.

[skin27]

A starting line-up of Murray,White, DDR, LMA, and Poetel is a decent starting line-up. White has range for 3s as does LMA for a power-forward. Murray in the post season and preseason was also showing improved shooting. DDR is hesitant to shoot threes but isn't bad at it. Its a dynamic line-up that can effectively shoot threes is they are there but isn't ridiculously long shot happy like so much of the league. All of the long rebounds lead to lots of fast break points as well.

So gay is the one who will come off the bench?

[palangi]

Why does it have to be one or the other with so many of you?

[Gagnrath]

So gay is the one who will come off the bench?

I think so. Gay is older, is fairly smart in understanding that as a closer he is more important than having his name called on the PA to start. Provides good vet leadership and some of the whole workman role. Todays Rudy Gay seems to be a much wiser man than the Sacramento Gay. I think the Achilles injury caused him to seriously review himself and he's a better person for that mentally and seems to be getting pretty close to back physically.

[Strategic]

It got you to start this thread, which is also inane.

[BSfromTX]

Murray is young, an elite defender, a great finisher, arguably the most athletic player on the team (Walker being the only rival) and you people are suggesting we get rid of him. Wake up! Him and White will be one of the most dynamic back courts next year and for years to come. I for one can't wait to see them clamp down on the likes of the splash brothers. You guys seem to worry about how they fit the way other teams play, the Spurs have never played to the trends of the league, our playing style evolves with the strength of our roster. Next year look for our fast break points to increase and back court defensive pressure to increase because that is the dynamic Murray will bring.


I dont recall call him being a good finisher. I seem to remember him pulling up with floaters rather than attacking and finishing

[R. DeMurre]

Murray's a 29th pick with very little NBA experience, and so to already be an elite rebounder and a good defender is a pretty nice accomplishment. If it pans out that he's a back up guard with certain skills and certain shortcomings (shooting, handles), it's not going to be too shocking, but the Spurs have shown time & time again that they're better at developing players than most teams... If his 3 point shot comes around, he can be deadly. If not, he's a defensive minded guy to put in with shooters like Bertans and Mills. Worse case scenario, he's a piece in a trade-- in which case his accolade of "second team all NBA defense" can only help. The one thing the Spurs are better at than probably every other team is patience. And here they are, again, in the playoffs after many predictions that they'd miss them, that they should tank, that their run was "over." The much vaunted "Process" of Philadelphia has only produced a team with a slightly better winning percentage in the East than the Spurs currently have. The non-stop shake ups in OKC have produced a team that sits one single game ahead of the Spurs... Pretty impressive for what was clearly a transition year. Give the kid a year healthy to show what he's got.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

He's accomplished being a starting point guard on an NBA team, youngest all NBA defensive team member, is a millionaire, and dates really hot girls...

i honestly feel feel like if DeRozan gets a corner 3 like Bruce Bowen then we are championship contenders.

[DJR210]

Tbh, he’s long and athletic and he had some moments during the playoffs last year but I don’t get why everyone including the mainstream media (which never gives the Spurs players any props) labeled him as the second coming. He is totally unproven. At this point Derrick White has shown much more that he can be a go to anchor and steady scorer, distributor and defender than InstaMurray. I don’t really see a place for Murray when he comes back unless the Spurs unload DDR. Keeping DDR, Murray and Aldridge as starters would put too many bad long-range shooters on the starting roster and make us a perpetually small lineup but without the ability to shoot. I don’t see it working out. Either DDR or DJInsta will have to go but White isn’t going anywhere.

He made All-NBA defensive second team in his first real season of action.. He's been a good teammate and has bought into Pop's system.. Why are you hating on him? Because of him being pussy whipped on instagram? Because Derrick White took his opportunity and made something of it?

[SAGirl]

I look forward to see what DJ has next season. Caveat is that having missed a season with injury he might not be as improved as he otherwise might have been with a year of further development. He could possibly still be at 17-18 levels where he needed to have improved this year. I just hope the injury doesn’t set him back like some players who come back and need another season playing before they really return to their old selves. Rudy is an example as he was good but not as he has been this season. There’s many other examples out there. Still expect he can contribute specially when the bench needs a pick me up on D very often.

I do think if he can’t shoot he’s going to be difficult to play with Derozan particularly. Murray needs a good season next year. I doubt White is going to see himself benched or affected by Murray returning. He has been key for the team. I also think Murray and White could play together fine it’s when you add Demar to that equation that it becomes a ?

Still it’s all an interesting puzzle for next year.

[Cry Havoc]

He can improve it about as much as Dwight Howard can.

On a team with Chip fucking Engelland as a shooting coach. You should turn in your Spurs fan card. This is the worst take I've read in a while. Kawhi Leonard was a 25% 3 point shooter in college.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I dont recall call him being a good finisher. I seem to remember him pulling up with floaters rather than attacking and finishing


Last year Murray took 41% of his shots from inside 3 feet, and shot .586 on them. That's very comparable to a second-year Dwayne Wade, who took 44% of his shots from close, and shot .587 on them. I don't know what it would take in your world for a guard, especially a young guard, to be a good finisher. But that' pretty damn convincing to most people.

And just for the record, that floater is one of the best tools available to a slashing guard. Nobody is good enough to get all the way to the rim against NBA defenders consistently, if they know it's coming. When defenders have to respect the floater, it gets the guard more clean trips to the rim. Wade, Westbrook, Harden - they all started taking fewer shots from 0-3 feet after being in the league a few years, but their FG% on those 0-3 foot shots all went up. That's because they quite trying to force their way to the rim every time.

[timvp]

I do think if he can’t shoot he’s going to be difficult to play with Derozan particularly. Murray needs a good season next year. I doubt White is going to see himself benched or affected by Murray returning. He has been key for the team. I also think Murray and White could play together fine it’s when you add Demar to that equation that it becomes a ?

Still it’s all an interesting puzzle for next year.

Agreed.

Defensively, Murray on point guards, White on the best wing and DeRozan on the other wing should be a huge improvement over this year's defense. If DeRozan can keep playing the D he's played the last couple weeks, the Spurs could become a top ten -- or even top five -- defensive team overnight.

While separating White and Murray makes some sense (White could play a Manu role, in theory, just as Murray's defense and rebounding would be a big help for the bench unit), the improved defense you'd get playing them together is too tantalizing to ignore. And on defense, DeRozan fits pretty well next to them. He's deceptively big and has rebounded really well, so in today's NBA he's more of a 3 than a 2, anyways.

Offense, obviously, will be the issue. If DeRozan and Murray are both non-threats from three (which will likely be the case, if we're putting odds on it), the spacing will be iffy. Add Poeltl to the mix and things would really get muddy.

That said, the plan before Murray got hurt was for the starters to be an ultra fast paced unit. With three ballhandlers in Murray, White and DeRozan and mobile bigs in Aldridge and Poeltl, the starters could hypothetically be a really good running fivesome that plays bully-ball in halfcourt sets. It could also make it more difficult for defenses to adjust to the lethal shooters that should stack the bench (Bertans, Belinelli, Forbes, Mills, probably Gay).

Fun to think about and should be really interesting. Overall, having an elite defensive guard waiting on the sidelines is not a bad thing ... even though it's not a seamless fit on paper. No need to fret, tbh.

[ismael-robert]

Can't believe a pointless thread about a guy who can't play to defend himself yet is getting attention.

[bklynspursfan]

That's the consensus opinion. But DeMar is not an all-star, and it is folly to expect him to fetch an all-star in trade. He is not worth $27MM or worthy of being the highest paid player on the team. As I said, I hope he spends several thousand hours in the gym with Chip this offseason. He needs a good 3-ball.

He probably should've been an all star. He struggled at the wrong time, but he could've been in there over Klay

[SAGirl]

Agreed.

Defensively, Murray on point guards, White on the best wing and DeRozan on the other wing should be a huge improvement over this year's defense. If DeRozan can keep playing the D he's played the last couple weeks, the Spurs could become a top ten -- or even top five -- defensive team overnight.

While separating White and Murray makes some sense (White could play a Manu role, in theory, just as Murray's defense and rebounding would be a big help for the bench unit), the improved defense you'd get playing them together is too tantalizing to ignore. And on defense, DeRozan fits pretty well next to them. He's deceptively big and has rebounded really well, so in today's NBA he's more of a 3 than a 2, anyways.

Offense, obviously, will be the issue. If DeRozan and Murray are both non-threats from three (which will likely be the case, if we're putting odds on it), the spacing will be iffy. Add Poeltl to the mix and things would really get muddy.

That said, the plan before Murray got hurt was for the starters to be an ultra fast paced unit. With three ballhandlers in Murray, White and DeRozan and mobile bigs in Aldridge and Poeltl, the starters could hypothetically be a really good running fivesome that plays bully-ball in halfcourt sets. It could also make it more difficult for defenses to adjust to the lethal shooters that should stack the bench (Bertans, Belinelli, Forbes, Mills, probably Gay).

Fun to think about and should be really interesting. Overall, having an elite defensive guard waiting on the sidelines is not a bad thing ... even though it's not a seamless fit on paper. No need to fret, tbh.

D.White's emergence as a really good player has some fans on edge about how his playing time will be affected by Murray returning from his injury. Personally, I wish some of Forbes, Mills and Marco minutes could be reduced. There's times Forbes really gets on my nerves, as do the other two, but their shooting is no doubt the reason they get minutes, Pop tolerates some bad defense at times, and sometimes even overplays one or another. I really wish either of Murray or Demar could start shooting a 3 to get Forbes minutes out of the starting lineup, but Pop's love for the little shooter is great and there's definitely times I will still feel like he gets over played (or Mills or Marco). Regardless it's a good problem to have to have a healthy Murray to push everyone else to up their game. D.White might not be the best scorer on the team, but he's the most well rounded guard and you usually want those guys starting to play the most minutes that they can.

I am cautious on Murray. I was really, really excited about his improvements this season, then really bummed that he got injured... and now I am just hoping he's not regressing next year. It seems like he's working really hard to get back and he looks in phenomenal physical shape when I have seen pictures of him, but many players struggle returning to prior levels the next season right out of an injury... It's not a 100% occurrence, luckily, but it happens enough that I am just on a wait and see how he does. Wishing the best though, and don't see his return as a problem, rather hopefully pushing everyone else (and himself).

[JeffDuncan]

OP is clearly a faggot.

The alleged subject is a non-issue.

[Calispursfan11]

You people are so sensitive. I never said DJ insta was bad. In fact, he had the potential to be pretty good, and even more than a role player. All I said is he is unproven and hasn’t accomplished nearly enough to deserve the kind of praise he was given to start the season. Sure his physical gifts give him above average defensive capability but he is offensively atrocious other than his sheer athleticism. He hasn’t led the Spurs deep into the playoffs. Unlike White, he hasn’t averaged an entire season of good offensive stats. White is legitimately very good and has arguably become the team’s second or third best player, so that leaves mediagram out in the cold unless he can at the very least, meet the lofty expectations everyone (including himself and his instagirl) heaped on him as some kind of generational but raw, developing talent. We also have no idea how good he’ll be after injury. Could have a permanent negative impact causing him to be relegated to spot minutes over a shortened career. The answer is clear. He has a lot to prove , and if he fails which seems likely, he’ll be riding the pine or traded. I do like the attitude but talk is cheap when you’re not that great of a player.

[JeffDuncan]

Talk is also cheap when you're not that great of a poster.

[Calispursfan11]

JeffDuncan is so butthurt :lmao

[skin27]

I remember in the preseason before the injury is that Murray is the one who started and not white..

[TDomination]

The defensive potential between a duo of white and Murray is sky high. They must be allowed to play together for a while before we can even start mentioning anything about 1 player not being able to play with the other.

Seeing how terrible we have been defensively this season, the dumbest thing would be to ignore the 22yr old 2nd team all nba defender that you have in your back pocket just because your unsure of how he will fit with the current.

White is awesome but murrays defense if pretty good. I'm sure the spurs will find a way to make them work offensively.

[stu scotts eye]

On a team with Chip fucking Engelland as a shooting coach. You should turn in your Spurs fan card. This is the worst take I've read in a while. Kawhi Leonard was a 25% 3 point shooter in college.

Agree. 87% of the ppl on here should just shut up.

[ZeusWillJudge]

JeffDuncan is so butthurt :lmao


Oh, it's you.

[DJR210]

On a team with Chip fucking Engelland as a shooting coach. You should turn in your Spurs fan card. This is the worst take I've read in a while. Kawhi Leonard was a 25% 3 point shooter in college.

Exactly.. and with his leg injury what the fuck else is he gonna be working on with this unexpected year off? He was already showing signs of an improved long range jumper prior to the injury, there's gonna be a lot of "it's either white or murray" thinkers here eating shit next season :lol

[GusT15]

Exactly.. and with his leg injury what the fuck else is he gonna be working on with this unexpected year off? He was already showing signs of an improved long range jumper prior to the injury, there's gonna be a lot of "it's either white or murray" thinkers here eating shit next season :lol

Cause history has shown that once the Spurs have two,beyond a shadow of a doubt,good guards co existing in the back court,everybody here stops taking sides and just enjoy the basketball?

[TheGreatYacht]

He should learn spanish so he can have fans hanging on his sack even if he is a total scrub next year

[ismael-robert]

Didnt yall already have all this talk in the thread that was meant for keeping up with his injury? So lifeless gotta repeat it all again just to not come to any conclusions again cause we wont kno crap till next year

[Jsmoothexpress]

Tbh, he’s long and athletic and he had some moments during the playoffs last year but I don’t get why everyone including the mainstream media (which never gives the Spurs players any props) labeled him as the second coming. He is totally unproven. At this point Derrick White has shown much more that he can be a go to anchor and steady scorer, distributor and defender than InstaMurray. I don’t really see a place for Murray when he comes back unless the Spurs unload DDR. Keeping DDR, Murray and Aldridge as starters would put too many bad long-range shooters on the starting roster and make us a perpetually small lineup but without the ability to shoot. I don’t see it working out. Either DDR or DJInsta will have to go but White isn’t going anywhere.
Quit being a hater mane! Seems like this post is trying to figure out why dude gets some much love. Even if he sucks and can’t hoopln a professional level, he’s still popular. So why you worried if he lives up to his potential? Hating ass niggaz mane on this site.

[tmtcsc]

If he busts next season and forces White to take a step back in development, Murray is going to be hated on a la 2015-17 Porker..

Murray's got nothing to do with White. White put that dude in the rearview mirror and is the real deal. Murray's all talk and selfies.

[vander]

On a team with Chip fucking Engelland as a shooting coach. You should turn in your Spurs fan card. This is the worst take I've read in a while. Kawhi Leonard was a 25% 3 point shooter in college.

KL made himself a better shooter. If Chip was so great, Spurs would be signing athletes and turning them into shooters. not signing guys like Mills and Forbes and Belli who can already shoot the three (and do nothing else)

[BillMc]

Cause history has shown that once the Spurs have two,beyond a shadow of a doubt,good guards co existing in the back court,everybody here stops taking sides and just enjoy the basketball?
:lmao

[Coach X]

Derrick White is not the first unknown guard drafted by the Spurs being immature and fantastically developed by the coaches.

DeJounte Murray progressed as well in his two first seasons in San Antonio and he was looking definitely better this pre-season. At the end of the past season, his game began to look solid both in offense and defense. I recommend everybody here to have a look at the preseason games.

He was running the offense and calling the plays with self-assertion on a classic PG role. I'm not sure how can that fit with White and DeRozan on the court at the same time. Anyway that shouldn't be a problem. I'd like to have him or Derrick coming off the bench leading the second unit in starter minutes ala Manu Ginobili.
DJ's jump shooting mechanics looked much better in October and he was more confident too, there are a lot of hours of work behind that. He will put much more until next season starts so I'm pretty sure Murray will be above the 0.300 and I'd say around 0.333 3pt% at least, especially from the corners. Again, please review October games.

I don't think he's the ideal guard defender, but Derrick White does. White is better guarding dribblers and avoiding contact in p&r situations. Murray is more of a disruptive positional defender: long, strong and active away from the ball, he's a passing-lane nightmare, a potential pest helping out and a multi-use switch all defender. His team will run more fastbreak thanks to his deflections and steals. His amazing ability to rebound the ball guarantees the team will dictate the preferred tempo.

I can definitely see DeRozan, Murray and White sharing the court in the clutch time next season as Poetl is replaced by Gay or Bertans for those final minutes. Opp teams will display at least 4 shooters at the same time in order to find decent shooting options. DDR is improving his defense and will continue doing it so I'm optimistic about next season defense when closing a game is needed. Offensive performance range goes from meh to Wow depending on how much DeMarr and DeJounte improve their three-point threat.

Future is bright as long as everybody is healthy.

PD. Please remove Forbes from future plans, there is no reason for him to be anything else than a bench filler. Mills, Bertans, Belinelli, are shooters too but better overall players and team has to sign a free agent that probably will be a forward that can score from the three-point line.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Tbh, he’s long and athletic and he had some moments during the playoffs last year but I don’t get why everyone including the mainstream media (which never gives the Spurs players any props) labeled him as the second coming. He is totally unproven. At this point Derrick White has shown much more that he can be a go to anchor and steady scorer, distributor and defender than InstaMurray. I don’t really see a place for Murray when he comes back unless the Spurs unload DDR. Keeping DDR, Murray and Aldridge as starters would put too many bad long-range shooters on the starting roster and make us a perpetually small lineup but without the ability to shoot. I don’t see it working out. Either DDR or DJInsta will have to go but White isn’t going anywhere.

playerfans aka enrique fans have nothing to fall back on, so they prop up this scrub in player comparability talks aka white...

[offset formation]

I have been arguing since the beginning of the new (calendar) year that DeMar should be moved and his salary dedicated to the SF position - 1 or even 2 players. IF Dijon has developed a 3-ball, DeMar is the expendable player. But I think we all know that Pop isn't going to move the prize he got in the Number 2 trade.

Who takes on that salary? And who or what are we having to include and eho and what do we get back? Not criticizing the take, just wondering if there's even a potential target out there?

[superbigtime]

more than OP

[duncan2k5]

He's accomplished being a starting point guard on an NBA team, youngest all NBA defensive team member, is a millionaire, and dates really hot girls...

i honestly feel feel like if DeRozan gets a corner 3 like Bruce Bowen then we are championship contenders.

Will never happen... And Bruce was clutch... This guy is a choker that can't shoot threes... Horrible combo for a team that wants to win a ring to have from ur ball dominant star player

[Chomag]

I think the jury is still out. Shooting is one skill that can definitely be improved. True that but will his shooting be natural for him? I guess that's what remains to be seen.

[sasaint]

Who takes on that salary? And who or what are we having to include and eho and what do we get back? Not criticizing the take, just wondering if there's even a potential target out there?

Who takes the salary? I was just chatting with another poster who thinks DeMar is all-star caliber, so there are a lot of different ideas about how hard his salary is to swallow. Before the deadline, I suggested some trades involving Covington before he was shipped to Minnesota. I personally would trade DeMar for Otto Porter, Jr. with the right to swap Toronto's pick for Washington's 1st. I admit I haven't really scouted the league to see who I might trade him for. I think Washington would be interested in something along those lines. There might be a good 3-team deal that would get it done...

[sasaint]

True that but will his shooting be natural for him? I guess that's what remains to be seen.

Not sure what you mean by "natural for him". When a good shooting coach, such as Chip, re-tools a players poor shooting stroke, it seems to me that by definition the player is moving away from his "natural" stroke and adopting mechanics that are "unnatural" - at least at the outset. That's why repetition under the tutelage of a good coach is so important. Eventually muscle memory will take over, and the stroke will become more "natural", but in the process, a good coach needs to be vigilant to constantly correct the mechanics in the re-tooling.

[Cry Havoc]

KL made himself a better shooter.

And you're basing this information on...... what, exactly?

Do you think a player just wakes up and goes "hmmm maybe I won't shoot 25% from college 3 point range anymore" and it just happens?

[Chinook]

And you're basing this information on...... what, exactly?

Do you think a player just wakes up and goes "hmmm maybe I won't shoot 25% from college 3 point range anymore" and it just happens?

He was already a decent shooter by the time the Spurs drafted him. There are DX interviews where he's talking about all the work he'd put in so team could think of him as a two-guard. What is less talked-about is that Chip haf actually given Kawhi some shooting tips when the club secretly met with Leonard. So both are true. Kawhi didn't show up to SA as an awful shooter and the Spurs did a lot to help Kawhi progress in that area.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol murrays fg% inside 3pt line... how many is from jumpshots?

[ZeusWillJudge]

For whoever it was complaining about Murray shooting floaters, here's an excerpt from an article raving about Trae Young's ability to shoot the floater:


Often lauded for his court vision and basketball intelligence, it is also worth noting that the 20-year-old already has displayed one of the NBA’s best floating jump shots. Also referred to as a floater or a teardrop or a runner, it’s an invaluable asset as it’s an efficient look from the short mid-range zone.


“It’s very important to have that in my arsenal,” said Young, “It keeps the defenders who are guarding me off their balance because they do not necessarily know if I’m going to shoot a floater or throw a lob or continue to try to get a layup.”

Murray needs to improve his shooting from distance to complement his skills near the basket. I mentioned in another thread, I hope White spends the summer learning to shoot the floater. They'll both be better players next season.

[R. DeMurre]

Murray needs to improve his shooting from distance to complement his skills near the basket. I mentioned in another thread, I hope White spends the summer learning to shoot the floater. They'll both be better players next season.




:tu Really looking forward to next season.

[Mikeanaro]

On a team with Chip fucking Engelland as a shooting coach. You should turn in your Spurs fan card. This is the worst take I've read in a while. Kawhi Leonard was a 25% 3 point shooter in college.
So Chip cant teach Spur playa how to shoot free throws?
They have been shit for ages shooting them, dont rely too much on that Chip thing.
Kawhi is an exception he had a very high ceiling, Dejuan Blair and lots of other guys were not shooting 3s, what about Bonner? Daye?

[SpursDynasty85]

So Chip cant teach Spur playa how to shoot free throws?
They have been shit for ages shooting them, dont rely too much on that Chip thing.
Kawhi is an exception he had a very high ceiling, Dejuan Blair and lots of other guys were not shooting 3s, what about Bonner?

Imo. Free throw shooting has a lot to do with how tired you are as well. Spurs have been work horses, playing defense, banging with others, hustling, by the time they get to the free throw line they are tired and their arms are heavier.

[vander]

And you're basing this information on...... what, exactly?

Do you think a player just wakes up and goes "hmmm maybe I won't shoot 25% from college 3 point range anymore" and it just happens?
LOL you are being obtuse and you know it. KL put in the work.
How come Chip couldn't fix Kyle Anderson's shot?
Why was Green shooting so poorly his last three years here?
why do the Spurs not bring in athletic defenders and improve their three-point shooting?
What other player besides KL had his 3-point shot improved in SA in the last 5 Years?

[R. DeMurre]

What other player besides KL had his 3-point shot improved in SA in the last 5 Years?

Bertans, Gay, and Forbes are all shooting the best 3pt%s of their careers this year.

[R. DeMurre]

Shooting coaches can't work miracles every day, but there's a reason Chip has been employed by the Spurs for a long time and enjoys such a great reputation in the league.

[Mikeanaro]

Bertans, Gay, and Forbes are all shooting the best 3pt%s of their careers this year.
Bertans and Forbes are 3 point specialists.
Is not like they were not long shooters and Chip made a miracle with them.
Both have been what? 3 seasons?
Rudy Gay had almost 40% in 2011 then he got injured, traded and played in shitty teams, this is his first good team since MEM.
So that 42% is not a miracle, now his team has a game plan.

[cd98]

LOL you are being obtuse and you know it. KL put in the work.
How come Chip couldn't fix Kyle Anderson's shot?
Why was Green shooting so poorly his last three years here?
why do the Spurs not bring in athletic defenders and improve their three-point shooting?
What other player besides KL had his 3-point shot improved in SA in the last 5 Years?

It's a combination. You can't become a great shooter if you don't practice. But practicing bad technique makes you good at shooting poorly. So Chip teaches or refines technique, but players have to put in the work. Chip turned Tony Parker into a deadly midrange shooter. When Parker first got in the league, I remember teams packing the paint and daring him to shoot jumpers because they knew defenders could not stay in front of him if they extended beyond the paint. When they did that, Parker became useless on offense. But once he got that midrange down, he became borderline unguardable. Now Parker never became an effective three point shooter, but he didn't need to be because he created so many open 3s with his drives. He just had to have enough space to put pressure on the defense at the rim.

[dbestpro]

Give Chip his due. I am in the camp that says no Chip for KL then he becomes just a defensive specialist maybe averaging 14 ppg tops.

[RC_Drunkford]

Give Chip his due. I am in the camp that says no Chip for KL then he becomes just a defensive specialist maybe averaging 14 ppg tops.

I been making this point last season when I said Kawhi would've never been the player he is if he hadn't been developed by the Spurs. They put players in a program where they add skillsets step by step and have the best shooting coach in the NBA. If he goes to the Pacers and not the Spurs he wouldn't have made it to an MVP candidate in his career.

[Calispursfan11]

I know some of you will be outraged by this, but tbh as great as Chip may be, shooting coaches are overrated and probably unnecessary in today's NBA. Kawhi could just as easily have learned his stroke from JJ Reddick’s YouTube channel. All it would have taken is a mild amount of comprehension (middle school level- the kind nephew can handle) and some self motivation. The internet is great like that nowadays.

[GusT15]

I know some of you will be outraged by this, but tbh as great as Chip may be, shooting coaches are overrated and probably unnecessary in today's NBA. Kawhi could just as easily have learned his stroke from JJ Reddick’s YouTube channel. All it would have taken is a mild amount of comprehension (middle school level- the kind nephew can handle) and some self motivation. The internet is great like that nowadays.

Shooting coaches aren't there just to show in live action the shooting style of JJ Reddick to a developing player.

They are there to observe in person through hours of practice the shooting form of a player.To try and correct said shooting form from the ground up through trial and error,fixing every aspect from feet positioning,release,shooting motion etc.

They are there to mold a players shooting form to what best helps that specific player,and not how to shoot in general.

Then they report said players progress to the head coach.Then the Head coach draws more plays for said player to check his progress in game.If something still doesn't work it's back to the drawing board.

Yes,the player's motivation and dedication is one of the most important aspect in the whole process.
But if your team does not help with putting you in the right position to succeed while offering you all the needed tools to do so,most of the time,you will fail.

[Fireball]

DJs shooting already looked better in the preseason ... no leap but still better ... combine this with his defense and I want to keep him together with White.

Lonnie Walker is the one who is overrated imo

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I know some of you will be outraged by this, but tbh as great as Chip may be, shooting coaches are overrated and probably unnecessary in today's NBA. Kawhi could just as easily have learned his stroke from JJ Reddick’s YouTube channel. All it would have taken is a mild amount of comprehension (middle school level- the kind nephew can handle) and some self motivation. The internet is great like that nowadays.

That's like saying good singers don't need vocal coaches. They do, unless it's on an amateur level.

[r0drig0lac]

I know some of you will be outraged by this, but tbh as great as Chip may be, shooting coaches are overrated and probably unnecessary in today's NBA. Kawhi could just as easily have learned his stroke from JJ Reddick’s YouTube channel. All it would have taken is a mild amount of comprehension (middle school level- the kind nephew can handle) and some self motivation. The internet is great like that nowadays.

haha

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Shooting coaches aren't there just to show in live action the shooting style of JJ Reddick to a developing player.

They are there to observe in person through hours of practice the shooting form of a player.To try and correct said shooting form from the ground up through trial and error,fixing every aspect from feet positioning,release,shooting motion etc.

They are there to mold a players shooting form to what best helps that specific player,and not how to shoot in general.

Then they report said players progress to the head coach.Then the Head coach draws more plays for said player to check his progress in game.If something still doesn't work it's back to the drawing board.

Yes,the player's motivation and dedication is one of the most important aspect in the whole process.
But if your team does not help with putting you in the right position to succeed while offering you all the needed tools to do so,most of the time,you will fail.

Great post.