Coach Pop Still Looks Like He's Enjoying Coaching [Archive]

Mr. Body

03-24-2019, 11:22 PM

Sorry, I'm just a little bummed about another 3-4 years of 6-8 seeds and first round sweeps, loser players taking up half the roster spots, etc....

I'll come around eventually, just need a moment to accept it tbh :lol

Blame a guy named Kawhi Leonard. He fucked this franchise but good.

The team is only a handful of wins away from the top of the bracket. The west sucks to play in right now. But yeah, this is no fun, but probably better than years of Phoenix Suns-style lottery picks and wreckage.

RC_Drunkford

03-25-2019, 01:27 AM

It's gon be a sad day when Pop doesn't coach the Spurs anymore. Give this roster to any other coach and they don't make the playoffs

Proxy

03-25-2019, 01:31 AM

it'll be nice to see him retire with TP

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03-25-2019, 06:37 AM

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:bobo

MoSpur02

03-25-2019, 07:28 AM

From what I understood he signed on for three years, but two of those years are his option. Ownership had been wanting to extend Coach Pop, but didn’t wanna be pushy because of his wife’s passing. However, Pop came around on his own and signed on.

Seventyniner

03-25-2019, 08:19 AM

He needs 94 more wins to pass Lenny Wilkins and Don Nelson as winningest coach of all time. What's crazy is he's done this in 23 seasons vs. their 32 and 31. (Kerr is going at a pretty high rate, but his teams won't be stacked forever.)

Three more years and Pop gets that record easily.

Pop has a good chance at getting 6 more wins this year, then he would only need to average 44 over the next two seasons to get those 94. By then he will have 25 seasons under his belt.

Harry Callahan

03-25-2019, 08:28 AM

The team still plays hard for him - young players get developed (unlike let's say in Dallas). The replacement for Pop as HC will not be as good.

It sucks that the team is not comprised of any hall of fame players who can take over and win you playoff series, but to expect having that forever is simply not realistic - a certain someone decided to bail you know.

Improvement has been made throughout the year. There are young players with upside on the roster.

Coach on I guess. It's OK for the next coupla years.

Kobe'sAchilles

03-25-2019, 08:56 AM

DMC

03-25-2019, 08:58 AM

Coaching with no impetus to win anything takes a load off of him, he's on house money. Also, if he's retiring after the USA Basketball thing, he's going to feel relaxed now.

Also, he doesn't have to wipe Kawhi's ass.

GreekSpursfan

03-25-2019, 09:15 AM

Uncle is the only reason this team is not a contender. Can Pop convince KD to come here instead of the NY markets, thats the only way to become legit contenders again other than tanking to get the cornerstone piece.

exstatic

03-25-2019, 09:32 AM

ZeusWillJudge

03-25-2019, 09:39 AM

Pop still enjoys coaching like Dick Cheney still enjoys hunting.

K...

03-25-2019, 09:39 AM

Pop is fine, but they really should shake up the assistants, although not completely. Really a minor scandal that udoka or Messina can't get a hc job anywhere.

exstatic

03-25-2019, 10:17 AM

Pop is fine, but they really should shake up the assistants, although not completely. Really a minor scandal that udoka or Messina can't get a hc job anywhere.

Can't? Or aren't interested? One of them is clearly first in line, and frankly, I'd rather be co-head assistant in SA under Pop than coach in some NBA shithole for a hapless franchise, and be fired in a year and a half. I think if Ime is first in line, Ettore will have a HC job in about 5 mintues when Pop retires.

pgardn

03-25-2019, 10:51 AM

He still gets a great deal of effort from his players.
With the player collusion that goes on and wack jobs like KL, everyone will realize how good he really is.

Pop has shown the ability to create teams based on the parts. We get to see well played basketball in an age where it can get awfully ugly. If you want to watch Harden every night and be a higher seed that’s fine. If you want to watch Westbrook play really hard on both ends and then completely blow it due to mental lapses that’s fine.

I like the product given the hand we were dealt by KL.
well played

BG_Spurs_Fan

03-25-2019, 11:00 AM

We need an adequate OC tbh. Let Pop focus on only the defensive side of the ball (which is his strength) and have the other coach in charge of the offense. I'm pretty sure Gentry is going to be fired at the end of the year. Spurs should go after him.

I think Pop’s been amazing offensively, changing schemes completely to fit personnel multiple times over the years. Spurs having the 7th best offense this year while shooting the least amount of 3s and 26th in FTAs is an incredible achievement.

SASdynasty!

03-25-2019, 11:03 AM

Sorry, I'm just a little bummed about another 3-4 years of 6-8 seeds and first round sweeps, loser players taking up half the roster spots, etc....

I'll come around eventually, just need a moment to accept it tbh :lol
In the last 7 years we have 4 WCF, 2 Finals, & a championship. A couple 1st rd exits and a 2nd round exit. All that despite our best player getting injured in the playoffs, sitting out a season, and a complete rebuild (only Patty left). I don’t know where you’re getting the 1st round sweeps thing from...that hasn’t happened since 91.

Kobe'sAchilles

03-25-2019, 11:15 AM

I think Pop’s been amazing offensively, changing schemes completely to fit personnel multiple times over the years. Spurs having the 7th best offense this year while shooting the least amount of 3s and 26th in FTAs is an incredible achievement.

I agree that we have been good offensively but our defense has paid the price for it. I think if we can have Gentry focus on offense next year that would help a lot. We have the youth now to be a fast break team with DJ and White and even Demar. We should also be taking more 3s as a team and I think Gentry would help with that as well.

Im not shitting on Pops offense this year. He has adapted really well to the personal he has this year. But I think Gentry can come in here and keep some of the same principles while adding a few of his own and that will let Pop get our defense back on track.

Mr. Body

03-25-2019, 11:24 AM

Pop still enjoys coaching like Dick Cheney still enjoys hunting.

Eh?

Dex

03-25-2019, 11:28 AM

We need an adequate OC tbh. Let Pop focus on only the defensive side of the ball (which is his strength) and have the other coach in charge of the offense. I'm pretty sure Gentry is going to be fired at the end of the year. Spurs should go after him.

Spurs have the 7th best offensive rating and 6th best offensive efficiency...even with LMA and DDR chucking away from mid-range. We are 2nd in overall FG%, 1st in 3PT%, and 1st in FT%.

The only issue with the offense is that it tends to come out slow and sputter at times. It's just a matter of limiting those moments and making sure they don't happen at the wrong time.

The problem with the Spurs is their defense (20th Def Rating), but that's not on Pop...he's doing what he can with limited personnel (i.e. Patty, Bryn, and Beli playing major minutes).

ZeusWillJudge

03-25-2019, 11:34 AM

Eh?

No consequences, even when they get it wrong. Why wouldn't they keep doing it?

Both nasty old bastards who love having access to a microphone.

Seventyniner

03-25-2019, 11:44 AM

Can't? Or aren't interested? One of them is clearly first in line, and frankly, I'd rather be co-head assistant in SA under Pop than coach in some NBA shithole for a hapless franchise, and be fired in a year and a half. I think if Ime is first in line, Ettore will have a HC job in about 5 mintues when Pop retires.

I agree. Pop is the kind that truly values his assistants, and that extends up to RC and the ownership as well. That's a hard thing to leave when there are so many poorly-run franchises out there. If Ime and Messina were grass-is-greener types they would have already left.

GusT15

03-25-2019, 11:51 AM

I agree. Pop is the kind that truly values his assistants, and that extends up to RC and the ownership as well. That's a hard thing to leave when there are so many poorly-run franchises out there. If Ime and Messina were grass-is-greener types they would have already left.

Just cause other Front Offices know/find out that Messina is not what he is believed to be,don't assume he didn't try to get a Head Coach job and ultimately failed.
Why did he fail? Cause Messina sucks.

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Messina-s-disappointment-over-failing-to-get-13459162.php

exstatic

03-25-2019, 12:02 PM

Just cause other Front Offices know/find out that Messina is not what he is believed to be,don't assume he didn't try to get a Head Coach job and ultimately failed.
Why did he fail? Cause Messina sucks.

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Messina-s-disappointment-over-failing-to-get-13459162.php

So, he sucks because Milwaukee chose coach Bud, who had NBA HC experience, and Toronto got stupid? You think they don't have buyers remorse for hiring the incompetent Nick Nurse? The Kawhi situation may also have come into play, but that does NOT mean that Ettore sucks.

Kobe'sAchilles

03-25-2019, 12:08 PM

Spurs have the 7th best offensive rating and 6th best offensive efficiency...even with LMA and DDR chucking away from mid-range. We are 2nd in overall FG%, 1st in 3PT%, and 1st in FT%.

The only issue with the offense is that it tends to come out slow and sputter at times. It's just a matter of limiting those moments and making sure they don't happen at the wrong time.

The problem with the Spurs is their defense (20th Def Rating), but that's not on Pop...he's doing what he can with limited personnel (i.e. Patty, Bryn, and Beli playing major minutes).

Basically my response is that next year we will have a more modern team that can run more fast breaks and shoot more threes and Gentry should be able to help with that next year. It would solve some spacing issues as well.

and I agree our defensive personal is horrendous but next year if Pop can just run that side of the ball and have Jakob, White, and DJ then I see us improving by a country mile.

GusT15

03-25-2019, 12:17 PM

So, he sucks because Milwaukee chose coach Bud, who had NBA HC experience, and Toronto got stupid? You think they don't have buyers remorse for hiring the incompetent Nick Nurse? The Kawhi situation may also have come into play, but that does NOT mean that Ettore sucks.

What is this? Do we have Messina fanboys here as well now?

He had final interviews with teams,they heard his plan,his long term vision and they didn't give him the job.Hell he couldn't even land the tanking Suns job over Kokoskov.

You want me to tell you why Messina sucks? Okay,he sucks cause i've seen him get outcoached more times than i can count on both hands in crucial games in Euroleague.He sucks cause he had the most expensive teams in Europe,he just had to coach powerhouses to the title and in the Final4 he loses to the inferior team while he stands there looking like a moron.

20+ years in Euroleague,15 of those years coaching the absolute favourite to win it all and just 4 trophies to show for.And he had to thank Manu for one of those trophies.

Losing to teams with 1/4 of his CSKA budget.Losing 20+ point leads while not knowing what the hell to do to stop the bleeding.That's why he sucks.

Do you want to tell me why he doesn't suck maybe?

exstatic

03-25-2019, 12:19 PM

Basically my response is that next year we will have a more modern team that can run more fast breaks and shoot more threes and Gentry should be able to help with that next year. It would solve some spacing issues as well.

and I agree our defensive personal is horrendous but next year if Pop can just run that side of the ball and have Jakob, White, and DJ then I see us improving by a country mile.

Our TS%, which is MAJORLY helped by both FTs and 3Gs, is just a hair under Houston's. So much for 3 pointers.

What on Earth makes you think that Gentry would even TAKE an assistants gig at this point in his career? He's got over 1000 head coaching wins.

exstatic

03-25-2019, 12:24 PM

What is this? Do we have Messina fanboys here as well now?

He had final interviews with teams,they heard his plan,his long term vision and they didn't give him the job.Hell he couldn't even land the tanking Suns job over Kokoskov.

You want me to tell you why Messina sucks? Okay,he sucks cause i've seen him get outcoached more times than i can count on both hands in crucial games in Euroleague.He sucks cause he had the most expensive teams in Europe,he just had to coach powerhouses to the title and in the Final4 he loses to the inferior team while he stands there looking like a moron.

20+ years in Euroleague,15 of those years coaching the absolute favourite to win it all and just 4 trophies to show for.And he had to thank Manu for one of those trophies.

Losing to teams with 1/4 of his CSKA budget.Losing 20+ point leads while not knowing what the hell to do to stop the bleeding.That's why he sucks.

Do you want to tell me why he doesn't suck maybe?

Payroll doesn't really mean shit. You have two scrub-ass Eastern teams fighting to stay above water, above .500, and in the playoffs, Detroit and Miami, and they are #1 and #8 in payroll this year.

Look, you're obviously one of those guys who think good teams or good coaches should win it every year. They don't, but you'll never understand that, so it's hard to have a frame of reference for discussion with you.

Kobe'sAchilles

03-25-2019, 01:20 PM

Our TS%, which is MAJORLY helped by both FTs and 3Gs, is just a hair under Houston's. So much for 3 pointers.

What on Earth makes you think that Gentry would even TAKE an assistants gig at this point in his career? He's got over 1000 head coaching wins.

this is all based on me thinking he gets fired at the end of the year. He was an assistant for Golden St with Kerr so why wouldn't he be one with Pop? And where the hell did you read he has over 1000 wins as a head coach? :lol

and yeah I'm aware we shoot the ball well from 3. But the volume needs to be upped a bit and I don't see Pop doing that. Also we need to be more of a fast break team which is something Pop doesn't generally do. It's nice to make 10 threes a game but it would be better to make 12-14 when we have the personal to do so. I'm not shitting on Pop or saying that our offense is bad. I'm just saying that it needs to be tuned up and it can improve a bit under Gentry while Pop fixes our defense. Hell Andy Reid had Nagy calling plays for him in KC and Andy is an offensive guru. Same principle

DAF86

03-25-2019, 01:29 PM

'Till the wheels fall off.

GusT15

03-25-2019, 01:46 PM

Payroll doesn't really mean shit. You have two scrub-ass Eastern teams fighting to stay above water, above .500, and in the playoffs, Detroit and Miami, and they are #1 and #8 in payroll this year.

Look, you're obviously one of those guys who think good teams or good coaches should win it every year. They don't, but you'll never understand that, so it's hard to have a frame of reference for discussion with you.

Dude,did you just try to make an argument about Euroleague's payroll using NBA team's payroll as a measuring stick?

That has to be one of the most ignorant things i've read in here.

I am one of those guys who have watched European basketball for 25 years and as apparently you are not one of those guys i have absolutely nothing to discuss with you.

In conclusion.
The best coach in Euroleague is one of Pop's best friends outside the NBA.His name is Zelico Obradovic.He has won 9 Euroleague trophies in the same time period as Messina's 4.He mostly had teams with half of Messina's budget.And he outcoached him in multiple occasions.And those are facts friend.Check them out if you don't believe me.:toast

exstatic

03-25-2019, 01:53 PM

this is all based on me thinking he gets fired at the end of the year. He was an assistant for Golden St with Kerr so why wouldn't he be one with Pop? And where the hell did you read he has over 1000 wins as a head coach? :lol

and yeah I'm aware we shoot the ball well from 3. But the volume needs to be upped a bit and I don't see Pop doing that. Also we need to be more of a fast break team which is something Pop doesn't generally do. It's nice to make 10 threes a game but it would be better to make 12-14 when we have the personal to do so. I'm not shitting on Pop or saying that our offense is bad. I'm just saying that it needs to be tuned up and it can improve a bit under Gentry while Pop fixes our defense. Hell Andy Reid had Nagy calling plays for him in KC and Andy is an offensive guru. Same principle

My bad. Looked at the wrong column. He's coached over 1000 games as an NBA HC. In GS and for the LAC, he was listed as associate head coach, a distinction made between that and assistant. Pop never bumps guys down in the pecking order, and won't for AG, either, and he'd have to do that to both Ime and Ettore.

ZeusWillJudge

03-25-2019, 02:06 PM

The best coach in Euroleague is one of Pop's best friends outside the NBA.His name is Zelico Obradovic.He has won 9 Euroleague trophies in the same time period as Messina's 4.He mostly had teams with half of Messina's budget.And he outcoached him in multiple occasions.And those are facts friend.Check them out if you don't believe me.:toast

I went to Popsbestfriendsoutsidethenba.com but he wasn't listed. Do you have another link?

GreekSpursfan

03-25-2019, 02:36 PM

KD is as much of a beta as DD.

Are you seriously comparing KD with DD? Really?

GreekSpursfan

03-25-2019, 02:42 PM

Dude,did you just try to make an argument about Euroleague's payroll using NBA team's payroll as a measuring stick?

That has to be one of the most ignorant things i've read in here.

I am one of those guys who have watched European basketball for 25 years and as apparently you are not one of those guys i have absolutely nothing to discuss with you.

In conclusion.
The best coach in Euroleague is one of Pop's best friends outside the NBA.His name is Zelico Obradovic.He has won 9 Euroleague trophies in the same time period as Messina's 4.He mostly had teams with half of Messina's budget.And he outcoached him in multiple occasions.And those are facts friend.Check them out if you don't believe me.:toast

He's not his best friend, you went a little too far there buddy, Pop just likes him a lot. I agree with the rest of your point though.

Pavlov

03-25-2019, 02:46 PM

So one Euro coach is better than Messina.

Wow.

Atl Spur

03-25-2019, 02:54 PM

GreekSpursfan

03-25-2019, 02:58 PM

I’d take that bet from you; the Spurs will be back contender soon with or without KD.

With the current roster there is no way they can contend but with some moves and drafting well and further developing the young pieces they have, sure but it's gonna take some time, it won't be soon.

exstatic

03-25-2019, 03:19 PM

Are you seriously comparing KD with DD? Really?

Mentally? Sure. Beta is a state of mind. You can't ever bear the mantle of "the man".

Atl Spur

03-25-2019, 03:40 PM

With the current roster there is no way they can contend but with some moves and drafting well and further developing the young pieces they have, sure but it's gonna take some time, it won't be soon.

In my estimation, 2 or 3 years at the most. They just need some defensive dogs! It’s coming......

8FOR!3

03-25-2019, 03:48 PM

Dude most teams really don't know what they're doing, if a Spurs assistant is available then they'll get a look somewhere. It's pretty much a guarantee imo that Messina, Becky, and Udoka will be NBA head coaches at some point. Their successes I can't guarantee.

GusT15

03-25-2019, 04:01 PM

He's not his best friend, you went a little too far there buddy, Pop just likes him a lot. I agree with the rest of your point though.

I meant friends of the basketball world,hence why i said outside the NBA (otherwise i'd say outside the US).My oversight.:toast

GusT15

03-25-2019, 04:13 PM

So one Euro coach is better than Messina.

Wow.

When Messina was brought over he was labelled as a European Bball mastermind,the Popovich of basketball on the other side of the Atlantic.Am i wrong?

Based on that reputation,many people here expect him to even take over from Pop,to be the next in line,and then to actually be successful as an NBA Head Coach.

If that is actually a misconception (and it is) you don't see any value on trying to argue what his actual coaching value is?
There are some people here that view him as an equal coach to Bud,Spo,Snyder or Doc.The man is the European Tyronn Lue.
If you feel at ease with Ty Lue at the helm,by all means,pay no attention to what i'm saying.

GreekSpursfan

03-25-2019, 06:27 PM

When Messina was brought over he was labelled as a European Bball mastermind,the Popovich of basketball on the other side of the Atlantic.Am i wrong?

Based on that reputation,many people here expect him to even take over from Pop,to be the next in line,and then to actually be successful as an NBA Head Coach.

If that is actually a misconception (and it is) you don't see any value on trying to argue what his actual coaching value is?
There are some people here that view him as an equal coach to Bud,Spo,Snyder or Doc.The man is the European Tyronn Lue.
If you feel at ease with Ty Lue at the helm,by all means,pay no attention to what i'm saying.

I have to disagree there, he's better than T.Lue because he can actually teach some things but we can't compare him with the names you gave because he hasn't taken over an NBA team yet.
I agree that he's not some bball genius though.
As for Bud, Doc i consider them a little bit overrated and some other time i will elaborate on that.

RC_Drunkford

03-25-2019, 07:06 PM

KD is as much of a beta as DD.

not on a basketball court

Bynumite

03-25-2019, 08:34 PM

CIA Poop already making plans for Trumps re-election :lol Another 4 years of 1st round exits and using the spurs as a platform for political commentary :tu

Pavlov

03-25-2019, 08:42 PM

When Messina was brought over he was labelled as a European Bball mastermind,the Popovich of basketball on the other side of the Atlantic.Am i wrong?

Based on that reputation,many people here expect him to even take over from Pop,to be the next in line,and then to actually be successful as an NBA Head Coach.

If that is actually a misconception (and it is) you don't see any value on trying to argue what his actual coaching value is?
There are some people here that view him as an equal coach to Bud,Spo,Snyder or Doc.The man is the European Tyronn Lue.
If you feel at ease with Ty Lue at the helm,by all means,pay no attention to what i'm saying.I probably won't pay attention to anything you say post after that tbh.

exstatic

03-25-2019, 10:29 PM

not on a basketball court

Sure he is. That’s why he had to run off and join the already in progress New Superfriends.

MultiTroll

03-25-2019, 11:12 PM

Props to Pop for helping change what looked like impending disaster.

Twice this year the Pop Spurs have reversed course on what seemed like a season ending downer.
11-14 after a loss to the LA Flamers.
33-29 before this current 10-2 streak.

While I'm not interested in seeing another 1st Round ouster, this reg season has been a good turnaround.

GusT15

03-26-2019, 01:23 AM

I have to disagree there, he's better than T.Lue because he can actually teach some things but we can't compare him with the names you gave because he hasn't taken over an NBA team yet.
I agree that he's not some bball genius though.
As for Bud, Doc i consider them a little bit overrated and some other time i will elaborate on that.

My comparison was based on the parallels of needing the best player on the court to win it all (Lebron for Lue,Rigodeau-or however it was spelled,Ginobili etc for Messina) and his biggest asset being his good relations with his players instead of X's and O's.
I wasn't talking about coaching value and experience between the two.It was a different kind of analogy.

And it's up for debate what are Bud's and Doc's coaching weaknesses of course,just saying they are on another level in comparison.

phxspurfan

03-26-2019, 01:31 AM

yeah them millions help dont they

GusT15

03-26-2019, 01:31 AM

I probably won't pay attention to anything you say post after that tbh.

That's okay Chump,when you've been around for 15+ years like yourself with 200k posts,or whatever number you're on,and having read about 10 million quotes,it's normal that it's all the same to you,i get it.

Just,when Messina gets his next HC job,and he gets fired mid season,like he was in Real Madrid,or when he leaves as a complete failure,like he left after his second stint at Moscow,maybe,just maybe you'll see my point of view.

BG_Spurs_Fan

03-26-2019, 04:35 AM

When Messina was brought over he was labelled as a European Bball mastermind,the Popovich of basketball on the other side of the Atlantic.Am i wrong?

Based on that reputation,many people here expect him to even take over from Pop,to be the next in line,and then to actually be successful as an NBA Head Coach.

If that is actually a misconception (and it is) you don't see any value on trying to argue what his actual coaching value is?
There are some people here that view him as an equal coach to Bud,Spo,Snyder or Doc.The man is the European Tyronn Lue.
If you feel at ease with Ty Lue at the helm,by all means,pay no attention to what i'm saying.

:spin You were doing quite OK until the last bit about Lue. Having to come up with something so ridiculous to make your point speaks poorly about its validity tbh.

GusT15

03-26-2019, 04:54 AM

:spin You were doing quite OK until the last bit about Lue. Having to come up with something so ridiculous to make your point speaks poorly about its validity tbh.

Meh,i've explained a couple posts upwards where that analogy comes from in my eyes.

Also in a subject that i had to deal with comparisons between a salary cap league like the NBA and salary cap-less league like the Euroleague,as far as coach success goes,i resorted to extreme lengths to find a plausible head coach to compare him with.

Was looking for a HC that has won the title,he won with the best player on the court/league/competition,his game tactics were irrelevant,he has lost the title afterwards with the same team without providing a tactical advantage,got the job cause his best player wanted him to have it,and he was fired when his team wasn't winning soon after that.

With those parameters one name popped in mind,no matter how much a joke of a coach Lue is.
(Again those are comparisons based on what Messina has done in Europe as he hasn't coached a team in the NBA)

ElNono

03-26-2019, 04:58 AM

Blame a guy named Kawhi Leonard. He fucked this franchise but good.

The team is only a handful of wins away from the top of the bracket. The west sucks to play in right now. But yeah, this is no fun, but probably better than years of Phoenix Suns-style lottery picks and wreckage.

I mean, honestly, the way this league is set up the best scenarios are:

A) Be a contender (this roster is not it)

B) Be tanking to land a top 3 pick and hope you get a generational talent, or at least young promising assets you can develop and eventually have a good trade value (clearly a longer process)

The good-enough-to-be-first-round-fodder-but-miss-good-picks is really the worst place to be.

Heck, we did B) to land Duncan.

Teams like Phoenix are more of an aberration, tbh, especially since Sarver is a well known terrible owner. You can look at teams like the Nets or even Philly for counterpoints to that.

GusT15

03-26-2019, 05:26 AM

I should have done this earlier.
In conclusion to my argument i'll try to provide some context to what i'm saying and then i'll not revisit the subject again.

I'm not gonna bring as an example a year where a Messina powerhouse lost the title.I'll instead delve into 2008 and his last title run.

These are the budgets of the Euroleague in 2008.(in US$)

Baltic:
Zalgiris Kaunas (Euroleague) 7,000,000
Lietuvos Rytas (Euroleague) 11,000,000
Turof (Polish team) 5,460,000
Alba Berlin 9,360,000
Dynamo Kiev 11,000,000
Adriatic:
Montepaschi Siena (Euroleague) 17,160,000
Virtus Bologna (Euroleague) 14,000,000
Lyon Villeurbanne 7,500,000
Cibona Zagreb (Euroleague) 4,680,000
Olimpia (Euroleague) 3,120,000
Spain:
Real Madrid (Euroleague) 39,000,000
FC AXA Barcelona (Euroleague) 34,320,000
Tau Vitoria (Euroleague) 31,200,000
Badalona 12,480,000
Unicaja Malaga (Euroleague) 28,080,000
Russia:
CSKA Moscow (Euroleague) 50,000,000
Kimki 18,000,000
Dynamo Moscow 20,000,000
Unix(Russian) 14,000,000
Dynamo Moscow region 14,000,000
Balkans:
Panathinaikos Athens (Euroleague) 42,120,000
Olympiakos Piraeus (Euroleague) 35,880,000
Aris TT Bank (Euroleague) 12,480,000
Partizan Belgrade (Euroleague) 4,680,000
Red Star Belgrade (Euroleague) 3,120,000
Asia:
Maccabi Tel Aviv (Euroleague)16,000,000
Hapoel Jerusalem 5,000,000
Efes Pilsen (Euroleague) 12,000,000
Fenerbahce Istanbul (Euroleague) 11,000,000
Besictas Istanbul 6,000,000

Source: http://ballineurope.com/budgets-of-basketball-clubs-in-europe/

In the final we had a team with a 50mil budget vs a team with a 16mil budget.

Guess who won?

https://www.euroleague.net/main/results/showgame?gamecode=231&seasoncode=E2007

Now take that and reverse it to more than 10 years of the team with the lesser budget beating a Messina team.
That's where the narrative Spurfans bought in and still believe goes wrong.
And i rest my case.

ZeusWillJudge

03-26-2019, 05:59 AM

I should have done this earlier.
In conclusion to my argument i'll try to provide some context to what i'm saying and then i'll not revisit the subject again.

Maccabi Tel Aviv (Euroleague)16,000,000
Hapoel Jerusalem 5,000,000

Now take that and reverse it to more than 10 years of the team with the lesser budget beating a Messina team.
That's where the narrative Spurfans bought in and still believe goes wrong.
And i rest my case.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/419lA5qM6SL._SX327_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

GusT15

03-26-2019, 06:08 AM

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/419lA5qM6SL._SX327_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Well this explains a lot.

How many times did you read this? Is it like a life guide for you?

You wonderful Gay bastard,you!

Mr. Body

03-26-2019, 06:13 AM

I mean, honestly, the way this league is set up the best scenarios are:

A) Be a contender (this roster is not it)

B) Be tanking to land a top 3 pick and hope you get a generational talent, or at least young promising assets you can develop and eventually have a good trade value (clearly a longer process)

The good-enough-to-be-first-round-fodder-but-miss-good-picks is really the worst place to be.

Heck, we did B) to land Duncan.

Teams like Phoenix are more of an aberration, tbh, especially since Sarver is a well known terrible owner. You can look at teams like the Nets or even Philly for counterpoints to that.

You couldn't be more wrong, but whatever. Most franchises take years and years to find 'generational' talent, or never do. It took way over a decade for Utah to start returning to relevance after Stockton and Malone departed. It took a huge amount of time for Philly to return to any competitiveness after AI left. Milwaukee was terrible forever. Phoenix has been trash. The huge problem with top picks is that they wind up being really expensive and it's easy to kill your franchise paying for them -- Phoenix and Minnesota are paying for shitty players in Booker and Wiggins and it's throttling their ability to get better.

Tank when you have to. Peeling out a good team just to tank is fucking stoooooopid.

ElNono

03-26-2019, 08:43 AM

You couldn't be more wrong, but whatever. Most franchises take years and years to find 'generational' talent, or never do. It took way over a decade for Utah to start returning to relevance after Stockton and Malone departed. It took a huge amount of time for Philly to return to any competitiveness after AI left. Milwaukee was terrible forever. Phoenix has been trash. The huge problem with top picks is that they wind up being really expensive and it's easy to kill your franchise paying for them -- Phoenix and Minnesota are paying for shitty players in Booker and Wiggins and it's throttling their ability to get better.

Tank when you have to. Peeling out a good team just to tank is fucking stoooooopid.

Utah bet the farm on Favors and Hayward as stars (including handing them star contracts), and all they could be was perennial borderline playoff/1st round fodder, it actually goes straight to my point.

Philly is the same thing: They rode Iguodala to borderline playoff team, and once they decided they were going to tank and tank hard, they finally ended up landing Ben Simmons, which in turn enabled them to attract some decent talent around.

There's no doubt that tanking isn't a quick, sure fire way process, but it's clearly a much better direction long term than being perennial middle of the pack, where: you are not a contender, don't have the cap space and roster assets to make important trades and you also don't suck badly enough to land high value young talent on rookie deals.

I will give you that with the emergence of super tilted teams like the Dubs it's difficult no matter what you do, tbh, and economically, sustaining a tanking program for the Spurs could not be feasible long term. That doesn't invalidate what I said about the better options on this league, even if it sucks for fans.

ZeusWillJudge

03-26-2019, 09:58 AM

Utah bet the farm on Favors and Hayward as stars (including handing them star contracts), and all they could be was perennial borderline playoff/1st round fodder, it actually goes straight to my point.

Philly is the same thing: They rode Iguodala to borderline playoff team, and once they decided they were going to tank and tank hard, they finally ended up landing Ben Simmons, which in turn enabled them to attract some decent talent around.

There's no doubt that tanking isn't a quick, sure fire way process, but it's clearly a much better direction long term than being perennial middle of the pack, where: you are not a contender, don't have the cap space and roster assets to make important trades and you also don't suck badly enough to land high value young talent on rookie deals.

I will give you that with the emergence of super tilted teams like the Dubs it's difficult no matter what you do, tbh, and economically, sustaining a tanking program for the Spurs could not be feasible long term. That doesn't invalidate what I said about the better options on this league, even if it sucks for fans.

Dead on perfect!

Tanking was actually a very good way to be profitable, but they've been tinkering with revenue sharing to try and prevent it.

bklynspursfan

03-26-2019, 10:41 AM

CIA Poop already making plans for Trumps re-election :lol Another 4 years of 1st round exits and using the spurs as a platform for political commentary :tu

do you even remember what playoff basketball is at this point?

GreekSpursfan

03-26-2019, 02:00 PM

My comparison was based on the parallels of needing the best player on the court to win it all (Lebron for Lue,Rigodeau-or however it was spelled,Ginobili etc for Messina) and his biggest asset being his good relations with his players instead of X's and O's.
I wasn't talking about coaching value and experience between the two.It was a different kind of analogy.

And it's up for debate what are Bud's and Doc's coaching weaknesses of course,just saying they are on another level in comparison.

You always need the best or close to that to win and Obradovic is great and all but aside from Badalona his teams had massive salaries or amazing talent that was about to explode(Danilovic, Djordjevic with Partizan) and he always had the best players on almost all his teams.

Ed Helicopter Jones

03-26-2019, 04:21 PM

I mean, honestly, the way this league is set up the best scenarios are:

A) Be a contender (this roster is not it)

B) Be tanking to land a top 3 pick and hope you get a generational talent, or at least young promising assets you can develop and eventually have a good trade value (clearly a longer process)

The good-enough-to-be-first-round-fodder-but-miss-good-picks is really the worst place to be.

Heck, we did B) to land Duncan.

Teams like Phoenix are more of an aberration, tbh, especially since Sarver is a well known terrible owner. You can look at teams like the Nets or even Philly for counterpoints to that.

The Spurs have never really tanked on purpose. Robinson's injury opened that door to land Duncan, and yeah, he probably could have come back and played sooner, but the truth is that the Spurs weren't supposed to get the first pick the year they landed Duncan. They were looking at the draft, for sure, but that was precipitated by Robinson getting hurt, not the other way around. And when Robinson came along the Spurs were dealing with the post Gervin era, but I wouldn't say they were "tanking" with the intent of getting draft picks, they were just terrible. Hitting the lotter twice is pretty amazing, but I wouldn't count on a trifecta.

I hate playing the tanking game. And neither the Nets nor Philly have a banner up to show for all that tanking. Word out of Philly is that Brett Brown's job could be in trouble if they lose in the first round this year. Dominoes could start falling and that team could get blown up again.

A small market team like San Antonio is treading in dangerous territory if they tank to get better. If we can't attract top free agents when we're good, we'll never attract them if we suck.

Heck, once LMA loses a step we'll probably be in the lottery, so folks can celebrate then.

Mr. Body

03-26-2019, 04:24 PM

The Spurs have never really tanked on purpose. Robinson's injury opened that door, and yeah, he probably could have come back played sooner, but the truth is that the Spurs weren't supposed to get the first pick the year they landed Duncan.

I hate playing the tanking game. And neither the Nets nor Philly have a banner up to show for all that tanking. Word out of Philly is that Brett Brown's job could be in trouble if they lose in the first round this year. Dominoes could start falling and that team could get blown up again.

A small market team like San Antonio is treading in dangerous territory if they tank to get better. If we can't attract top free agents when we're good, we'll never attract them if we suck.

The Spurs have had something like eight non-playoff seasons in their entire history. We don't tank, period. But as you say, it's extremely dangerous for a market like this. Start tanking and you're more likely to look at a lost decade. A lost decade and this team gets sold and winds up in Seattle.

Tanking. Doesn't. Work.

BillMc

03-26-2019, 04:30 PM

Heck, once LMA loses a step we'll probably be in the lottery, so folks can celebrate then.

Don't disagree with anything you're saying on tanking, but, I do think LMA's game will age well. Of course, he may be in Portland by then, and Pop retired, so we indeed could be lottery bound. Unless DJ and White and a few others really develop

Mr. Body

03-26-2019, 04:46 PM

Heck, once LMA loses a step we'll probably be in the lottery, so folks can celebrate then.

It'll happen sooner or later. Aldridge probably extended the competitive life of this franchise by five years. I don't see another franchise FA coming on any time soon.

But, really, I had expected this to happen, like, ten years ago. In no way had I imagined the Spurs would have another period of competitive viability and win in 2014. If Kawhi hadn't been hurt by Zaza and then quit as a human being, the Spurs might actually be in a position for another.

exstatic

03-26-2019, 05:06 PM

The Spurs have had something like eight non-playoff seasons in their entire history. We don't tank, period. But as you say, it's extremely dangerous for a market like this. Start tanking and you're more likely to look at a lost decade. A lost decade and this team gets sold and winds up in Seattle.

Tanking. Doesn't. Work.

In 51 ABA and NBA seasons, the Spurs have missed the playoffs 5 times. In 42 previous NBA seasons, the Spurs have missed the playoffs 4 times. That's fewer times than the current Laker STREAK of playoff misses.

SA is the gold standard for NBA franchises. We own the highest regular season win percentage. I know that teams have more championships, but what most people don't know is that during that Boston streak in the 50s and 60s, you only had to win two playoff series to get a ring. Spurs have done at least that 11 times. I'm not even sure what the standard was for those trophies that the Minneapolis Lakers won in the 40s. Maybe there was only one series? East vs West?

Ed Helicopter Jones

03-26-2019, 06:41 PM

In 51 ABA and NBA seasons, the Spurs have missed the playoffs 5 times. In 42 previous NBA seasons, the Spurs have missed the playoffs 4 times. That's fewer times than the current Laker STREAK of playoff misses.

SA is the gold standard for NBA franchises. We own the highest regular season win percentage. I know that teams have more championships, but what most people don't know is that during that Boston streak in the 50s and 60s, you only had to win two playoff series to get a ring. Spurs have done at least that 11 times. I'm not even sure what the standard was for those trophies that the Minneapolis Lakers won in the 40s. Maybe there was only one series? East vs West?

Totally agree. And there were only 11-12 teams in those early years, too.

Boston, with all their banners, has 4 rings since the ABA merger.

What the Spurs have accomplished is amazing...small market team...former ABA franchise...not a "premier" free agent destination. Folks love to throw stones at the FO, but doing so is just blind ignorance from my perspective.

ElNono

03-26-2019, 07:07 PM

The Spurs have never really tanked on purpose. Robinson's injury opened that door to land Duncan, and yeah, he probably could have come back and played sooner, but the truth is that the Spurs weren't supposed to get the first pick the year they landed Duncan. They were looking at the draft, for sure, but that was precipitated by Robinson getting hurt, not the other way around. And when Robinson came along the Spurs were dealing with the post Gervin era, but I wouldn't say they were "tanking" with the intent of getting draft picks, they were just terrible. Hitting the lotter twice is pretty amazing, but I wouldn't count on a trifecta.

I hate playing the tanking game. And neither the Nets nor Philly have a banner up to show for all that tanking. Word out of Philly is that Brett Brown's job could be in trouble if they lose in the first round this year. Dominoes could start falling and that team could get blown up again.

A small market team like San Antonio is treading in dangerous territory if they tank to get better. If we can't attract top free agents when we're good, we'll never attract them if we suck.

Heck, once LMA loses a step we'll probably be in the lottery, so folks can celebrate then.

I don't think anybody likes tanking as a fan (even debatable as an organization), but whether it was pure luck or not, the fact that we ended up with a top 3 pick, and landed Duncan is without a doubt what changed this franchise and gave it new life. And, again, my post is just pointing out those are effectively the strategies that work in this league, due to salary caps, star power bringing more star power, etc. At the same time, it's silly to buy the koolaid that your first round fodder team is somewhat better than the franchises that decided to tank early and go for the next big talent.

I mean, it's actually egregiously obvious if you look at the standings any given season lately, half the league is tanking, the other half is either contenders or trying to hang around for one more piece... I actually don't like it works that way, but I can't pretend it's not happening.

MultiTroll

03-26-2019, 07:30 PM

... I do think LMA's game will age well. Of course, he may be in Portland by then, and Pop retired,
If that is the case, Spurs should get as much trade value as possible for LMA.
Could get some juicy offers from some here and now contending teams. Like Houston offering 4 1st rounders for AD (or whatever it was). Of course LMA is not AD but you get the idea. Just let him play out his contract at the end of '20-21 and bail to Portland? Ya I guess that's option. Hope it's not this year and two more of 1st Round fodder.

ZeusWillJudge

03-26-2019, 08:38 PM

Well I hope he enjoyed the shit out of that one.

R. DeMurre

03-27-2019, 01:44 PM

I don't think anybody likes tanking as a fan (even debatable as an organization), but whether it was pure luck or not, the fact that we ended up with a top 3 pick, and landed Duncan is without a doubt what changed this franchise and gave it new life. And, again, my post is just pointing out those are effectively the strategies that work in this league, due to salary caps, star power bringing more star power, etc. At the same time, it's silly to buy the koolaid that your first round fodder team is somewhat better than the franchises that decided to tank early and go for the next big talent.

Orlando landed Shaq and Chris Webber, Minnesota landed Garnett, Cleveland landed LeBron, OKC landed Durant, Westbrook, and Harden, Dallas landed Dirk... None of those situations led to 5 rings for those franchises. In fact all of those teams combined went on to win two rings in total.
I think there's no question that Duncan was a huge part of the equation, but I don't think if he goes to a different organization, they just automatically win 5 rings. The Spurs did a lot of things right after the having the good fortune of getting Tim.

MoSpur02

03-27-2019, 06:59 PM

Orlando landed Shaq and Chris Webber, Minnesota landed Garnett, Cleveland landed LeBron, OKC landed Durant, Westbrook, and Harden, Dallas landed Dirk... None of those situations led to 5 rings for those franchises. In fact all of those teams combined went on to win two rings in total.
I think there's no question that Duncan was a huge part of the equation, but I don't think if he goes to a different organization, they just automatically win 5 rings. The Spurs did a lot of things right after the having the good fortune of getting Tim.

:bobo

jjktkk

03-27-2019, 07:36 PM

Totally agree. And there were only 11-12 teams in those early years, too.

Boston, with all their banners, has 4 rings since the ABA merger.

What the Spurs have accomplished is amazing...small market team...former ABA franchise...not a "premier" free agent destination. Folks love to throw stones at the FO, but doing so is just blind ignorance from my perspective.

Couldn't agree more. Tanking doesn't guarantee anything. I would rather PATFO continue adding to this current team and keep doing it the
"Spur's way".