Spurs are being cheap plain and simple

[IcemanCometh]

Many of you are gearing yourselves up to hate SJax already, claiming hes being evil and making unreasonable demands. This is having eerie similarity to another episode a few years back with Derek Anderson. Again the Spurs refuse to commit to a long term contract, why? Well fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

The Spurs claim they want him back, sure they would love him back at his original minimum price. Why do you think we just traded for more contracts that expire in a year. We just got a huge windfall for being under the luxury tax , you don't think maybe the shareholders wouldn't like to repeat that next year.

Indiana giving up Brad Miller was cheap,but San Antonio giving up SJax was smart cause Manu was gonna start anyways?

2 mantras to live by

Never trust an agent.
Never trust ownership.

[Marcus Bryant]

I'd like Jack back but you have to be Fing kidding me if you are going off on the Spurs for being "too cheap".

Next summer they will have to offer up a long term deal for Ginobili and then by the summer after that they will have to pay Parker and Turkoglu.

That's on top of Duncan's max deal, Rose, and Nesterovic.

So the Spurs will have 6 long term contracts for:

Duncan ($13 mil+ starting, 7 years)
Parker ($9 mil+ starting, 7 years)
Ginobili ($6 mil+ starting, 7 years)
Turkoglu ($6 mil+ starting, 7 years)
Nesterovic ($5.5 mil starting, 6 years)
Rose ($4 mil starting, 6 years)
Jack???

How many teams in the league carry that many long term guaranteed deals? Lay off that sauce, Ice.

[Marcus Bryant]

Here Ice, see for yourself:

www.nationwide.net/~patricia/contracts (http://www.nationwide.net/~patricia/contracts)

[IcemanCometh]

yeah boohooo

poor multi-millionaires having to pay salary after getting a new arena

why if they added sjax their profits might go down .02%


no team in the nba, no team in baseball, no team in football loses money

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah well apparently the Spurs aren't the only front office to think that way, Ice. This is Holt Cat not friggin' Microsoft or Broadcast.com.

Look at the Lakers how many long term deals have they carried in that market?

[IcemanCometh]

like i said

never trust ownership

with very few exceptions, they are all cheap worthless bastards who care nothing for the fans

[Marcus Bryant]

Like I said, get some perspective.

Duncan
Parker
Ginobili
Turkoglu
Nesterovic
Rose

Those 6 by themselves would account for $350 mil+ in guaranteed salary. How many NBA teams do that shit? Name them.

[IcemanCometh]

the mavs
the kings
the pistons
the sixers
the nets
the knicks
the blazers
the twolves
the celtics
the heat

[Marcus Bryant]

Um, no.

[IcemanCometh]

uhm yes

[Marcus Bryant]

the Heat had 3 long term contracts: Jones, Grant, and Mourning.

Mavs & Blazers have ownership who doesn't mind blowing $$$. NY is the largest media market in the Fing world. The rest of those teams aren't carrying anywhere near what you think the "cheap" Spurs should carry. F that, Ghost.

[Temple Of The Dog]

i think the spurs could have worked something out with sjax at one time... but they didn't see him as a priority. they tried to go after spree... who would have taken the starters spot... and most of the cap space. (they would have backed him up with manu not jax)

after that fell through, they pulled another trade for 2 shooting guards... and if that doesn't tell you that they really didn't see sjax as a priority... than what will?

contracts start out high... you try to bring them down. (its called negotiation) but whatever comes out of this... you can bet the spurs organization is going to paint themselves in a better light than they will sjax.

just witness tony parker... when he came out and complained that pop wasn't returning his calls after he expressed concern over them going after jason kidd... the front office and pop came out with the company line that said "he's getting advice from others" (meaning his agent)

now... they're doing the same with sjax. they're coming out with little leaks about contract info... "sjax wants so and so money... his agent is ruining his career..." blah blah blah.

and yet still... some in here want to defend those actions? thats a little blind.

look... sjax was great for a year... but he wouldn't have been a starter in any other western conference team last year if he was on any other team but the spurs. tony parker was drafted late in the first round and just so happened to work out better than anyone ever expected.

these players were on our team and starting because management chose to take a very conservative approach... one that left us with those players as our only options (as far as talent) and we haven't had a good talent base on this team for years.

jason kidd would have been a second star for this team... and hedo and mercer can more than fill the void that sjax has left... the reason we went after kidd... and wound up with hedo and mercer... are the direct result of a management plan that hadn't included winning a championship in the process of planning for david robinson's retirement.

[Marcus Bryant]

Cassell and Sprewell's deals end in 2005 and 2006.

[exstatic]

If you give everyone the MCE, you become the Knicks, lottery bound, and unable to change your roster in any meaningful way. Pop and RC do a great job of continuously scouting, signing, and reloading. Since they will only be marginally over the cap this year, assuming Jack bolts, look for 1-3 players on IR this year to develop.

Everyone can't get paid. Fact of life.

[SequSpur]

we haven't had a good talent base on this team for years.

LMMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

2 Championships in the last 5 years and Temple of the Dog thinks we don't have talent on this team...

Shit, if it wouldn't had been due to an injury and 2 shutdown modes in the 4th quarter, we may have had more championships...

This coming season is no different than others.. Big fucking Question marks... SPAM! This team will have to learn each other again and then peak later on.

Yeah the Spurs are different. They have remained competitive... Without Duncan this team would barely win 10 games. REMEMBER THAT! All of these players look great and get paid because of TIM DUNCAN!..

SJAX had 68 turnovers in the playoffs. We would have swept damn near every team if he would have only had 60 turnovers.. lol... Unbelievable...

Yeah.. Bring his azz back at a guaranteed 4 year deal.. Yeah.. go ahead... Jax is a Silver Dancer.

[KoriEllis]

Iceman, get your facts straight before you make grand assumptions.

The Spurs had re-signing Stephen Jackson as a priority.

The day after Kidd left town (July 7th) the Spurs started discussing trading certain current players -- Bowen, Malik and Tony. Trading Jack wasn't an option. Pop talked to Jack and expressed his desire to keep him in a Spurs uni. Jack reciprocated the desire.

It was understood Jack would be signed last because of the fact the Spurs can over the cap to sign him. The Spurs went out fishing for more talent and continued to want Jackson here.

They started to negotiate with his agent (who doesn't talk to Pop) and his agent began making unreasonable demands. The Spurs starting offer was 3year/$12M -- the agent wanted FIVE YEARS/$28M, plus conditional clauses to keep Jackson a starter. That's fuckin' ridiculous by anyone's standards.

After a productive, yet erratic season, no team should be extorted into giving a player a five year contract with promises to keep him in the starting lineup, especially with a player like Manu Ginobili on the team.

The starting job was initially going to be Jack's to lose in training camp.

So you can blame Jackson's agent. You can blame Jackson for listening to his agent. But I'm sorry, you cannot blame the Spurs organization in this situation. They aren't idiots and they aren't going to get played by a 25-year old kid with a clutch jump shot and erratic, undisciplined tendencies. This isn't about being cheap.

[MI21]

Good to see that the starting position was Jack's to lose, and he wasn't going to be benched after his nice season, despite what alot of people here were saying about Manu starting etc.

I really wanted to keep Jack, and the offer the Spurs gave him is exactly what i would have given him, not one cent more or one year more. It's hard for me to say that for anymore I dont want him back as one of his huge fans, but it's the truth. His agent is a real fuckhead by the sounds of things :(

Thanks for Info Kori.

[Marcus Bryant]

Jack starting had a lot to do with Ginobili's F'ed up ankle more than anything else last season. Ginobili is by far the more polished and skilled player. I like Jack a lot and wanted him in SA before most of you realized who he was but I have no problem telling it like it is.

[bugramps]

SJax has ONE decent year, and now you guys believe he deserves a long term deal? Need I mention Jaren Jackson? Had a GREAT year in 1999 and won the title and contributed with his clutch shooting. Sound familiar?

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason the Spurs gave up on Derek Anderson was because he got bitchy and too big for his britches demanding the Spurs deal with him before dealing with Robinson's contract. In fact, I remember vividly him telling the local media that he understood Robinson had done a lot for the franchise, but that he had done A LOT for the organization too ... give me a break. At that point, everyone said F*CK him! So, he goes to Portland for less money just despite us, and now they're falling apart. GREAT MOVE DA!

I like Jackson, but he also caused me a lot of near fatal heartattacks with his careless and erratic ballhandling and ill decisions. He may be clutch, but he makes up for that in a HUGE way by throwing the ball away.

Again, he had ONE good year ... you don't overpay because someone had ONE good year. Remember everyone said the real test for Tony Parker was this year ... to see if he just had a fluke year or if he was legit?

Same here ... to demand a $28mil over 5 years contract, you have to produce more than one decent year. Sure they wanted to keep him, but once the Spurs found out what he wanted, then they realized they had to make some moves to prepare for his departure.

Anyone who pays near what he wants is an IDIOT!:gun

[Marcus Bryant]

Another thing to consider is that the Spurs could have Derek Anderson taking up $7.8 million of their cap next season and then even more over the next 3 seasons. Were the Spurs being cheap....or smart? Of course homer fans are going to bitch when players leave a team but that's life in the NBA.

[T Park Num 9]

Kind of like the fans that are whining about getting Ron Mercer and Turkoglu for nothing, because,

"we couldve done it the last two years?"

[IcemanCometh]

Well all I'm saying is it looks mighty suspicious. So if the Spurs let Hedo and Manu walk next year and take on yet more ending contracts, don't come crying to me.

[Temple Of The Dog]

Another thing to consider is that the Spurs could have Derek Anderson taking up $7.8 million of their cap next season and then even more over the next 3 seasons. Were the Spurs being cheap....or smart? Of course homer fans are going to bitch when players leave a team but that's life in the NBA.

marcus... you dumb ****... a "homer" is fan that defends every fucking move the front office makes... even if that includes peter holt going on the air (on nbc) and making comments about signing david for less and what to do about derek anderson... while you're getting your ass handed to you by the lakers.



2 Championships in the last 5 years and Temple of the Dog thinks we don't have talent on this team...

Shit, if it wouldn't had been due to an injury and 2 shutdown modes in the 4th quarter, we may have had more championships...

i said "talent base" meaning more than tim duncan. honestly... before manu and parker we had guys on the roster that no other teams would even touch... not worth it.

we had tim duncan during those 2 championships sequa. and some shit for brains still think that AD could start at point... and that you win with elderly people who are on their way out. (just because they like to spin front office moves)

aj wouldn't have started for any other team in the western conference during the time we had him... and we could never make any trades during the robinson era because we hardly had anyone with any trade value... we had to trade sean elliott for rodman... if that doesn't tell you something... (cause we got sean back for a guy named curly)

... god, you leave for a second... :)

[Marcus Bryant]

Suck a dick. A homer never wants to see their favorite players leave. Now you're telling me that the Spurs can simply afford to carry a roster full of multi-year deals? Get real. 'Dumb fucks' like you must think that this isn't a business. Excuse me for actually thinking instead of whining like a little baby.

[bugramps]

The Spurs did that to make room to solidify their future ... giving them the freedom to sign Manu and Parker up long term in the next two year. I don't really see where you are upset about all this. It's brilliant actually.

Which is smarter? Caving in and giving an unproven guy like Jax a long term deal, or let him go and sign a couple of one year deals that allow you freedom to evaluate and decide.

I just don't understand where you think offering Jax a huge contract is smart. I ask it again, do you remember Jaren Jackson? The same stuff was said about him, and we signed him, and he was never anywhere near what he was in that amazing playoff run he had in 1999.

The Spurs and their fans learned the hard way not to throw money at someone who had ONE good year.

Getting Hedo and Mercer and Horry was smart ... you get talented players that you are not committed to beyond this year. That gives the SPURS, not the players, the power to determine their path and course of action. IF Hedo and/or Mercer work out, then they'll sign extensions, if not, the Spurs can let them go and have money to burn.

It's a win-win situation for the Spurs ... you should be happy about it. SHIT, they were offering Kidd and O'Neal max deals ... how is that being cheap? Hell, many think they overpaid Rasho. I think they're being extremely smart ... there's a reason the Spurs front office gets a lot of praise around the league these days (granted outside SA ... bc Spurs fans can't see how lucky we are to have such a smart office ... look at the east for easy examples about how bad management can be).

[Temple Of The Dog]

Suck a dick. A homer never wants to see their favorite players leave. Now you're telling me that the Spurs can simply afford to carry a roster full of multi-year deals? Get real. 'Dumb fucks' like you must think that this isn't a business. Excuse me for actually thinking instead of whining like a little baby.

there you go again spin-masturbator extraordinaire... DA was my favorite player huh? (yeah right - and you're my favorite poster) i was just making the point that they screwed DA over, and almost screwed david robinson over that summer too. tony parker even talked about it in an interview... we even went over it before that thread was posted...

talk about revisiting the good old days, huh?

cause i remember a "homer" named Spurs Fan who used to run around with a little "tagline" signature... at the bottom of all his posts he'd write "NO LIMIT ARMY" he'd talk about getting more than one max player in 03 - and defend the front office when they failed to make trades to improve the overall talent of the team... now... there's some guy named marcus. i miss that other retard alot. :)

maybe i'm playing devils advocate with how much talent we could have had during these years... but i'm just grateful we have tim duncan. (2 championships) now maybe we can afford to start accumulating some players who wouldn't be cut from a pickup game at the Y.

[Marcus Bryant]

Good for you. With respect to DA the Spurs conned the 'homers' (including yourself apparenty) into thinking that they wanted him back. Of course they wanted him back so bad they were unwilling to guarantee almost all of the last two years of his contract. Of course they could still tell the media that they were offering a '6 year $42 mil deal' or whatever but the truth was that only about $28 mil was guaranteed. DA wasn't greedy (another argument of the 'homers'), he wanted his market price in the NBA which was in the range of Portland's 6 years $48 mil guaranteed contract offer. So the Spurs fool their fans into thinking they wanted him back and that DA was being unreasonable. He wasn't.

As for their strategy of not paying DA like a second star, sure, I agreed with that. He faded towards the end of that season and then didn't show much in his first playoff series before Juwan Howard took him out. Beyond that his defense left something to be desired.

I've yet to see you make one coherent argument as to why it is preferable to keep every player the Spurs have. After this trade Jack is expendable. I'm sorry if I don't adopt your childlike mentality that the Spurs should just dole out multi-year contracts without any regard for the repercussions down the line. It's easy to bitch, it's harder to actually bother to assess the situation and understand that this isn't NBA Live 2003 or whatever it is a damn business and not every NBA franchise can carry a $80 million payroll, especially a team in one of the smallest NBA markets and in one of the metro areas with the lowest average per capita income in the entire US. Unlike you I actually bother to look at the situation and the implications for the moves which you yourself suggest. Now you can continue to spew your nonsense or you can actually defend your argument with facts. Given what you've demonstrated thusfar I'm not expecting much.

[F7]

Indeed guys, I wish the Spurs organization was more like the Knicks organization. Now there is an organization that knows how to pay players. They definitely know how to keep fans happy... and not only that.. they have so many fucking rings to show for it too.

[Temple Of The Dog]

i never wanted jaxs back marcrust... i thought he was a raw talent we were forced to start because manu was hurt and was a rookie new to the nba. and that was my point.

for a team to depend on a rookie like manu was last year, goes to show how much talent we had coming into that year... jax just so happened to step up. parker starting at 19 because we didn't have a quality guy to share mins with him and bring him along slowly... also shows you how much talent we had during these years when we were planning for robinson to retire.

but, you must be reading different posts dude... because you're the only homer that i've read here... most of the stuff you "spew" sounds like it comes out of pop's ass. (mostly shit)

my points have been about how DA was treated. i think they used him as a backup plan (as they did with david that year) the spurs went after webber, and christie... made them offers above robinson and DA.

DA forced a sign and trade and thats why we ended up with steve smith... which forced us to later start jax because of a lack of talent at that position...

a guy who won't be starting anywhere else. (but i wish him well cause he played balls out)

[Admiral]

Amazing how Marcus is already talking about how to pay for Turkoglu's new contract and the guy hasn't even played a minute in a Spurs uniform yet. Like Manu, Turkoglu has very little experience being an NBA starter, and people are ready to shell out the money and forget about the guys who are our current starters.

It's incredible how some fans underestimate the value of what being an NBA starter means. It means that you matchup against the best the other team has to offer, as opposed to possibly playing against the other team's reserves every time you're out there. It means added responsibility. It means that you're required to play within the system more than you used to and reduce turnovers and fouls. MUCH more is expected of you as a starter, and some people act like Manu and Turkoglu will have no problem stepping in and playing huge roles in 2003-2004. Keep telling yourselves that both would've been All-Stars if not because one played behind Stojakovic and the other had a bum ankle to start the season. Whatever helps your argument.

Nobody is saying that these two won't be excellent players one day, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. They aren't there YET. There is reason why both are accustomed to coming off the bench - and it's not just because they were in impossible situations last year.

I look forward to watching these guys slowly reach their potential on our team.

[Temple Of The Dog]

great post admiral... i agree. however with the kinds of mins manu was putting up towards the end of the season and playoffs, i think he'll be fine. (he's got all the skills) i don't think hedo will start, but he'll have an excellent chance of getting lots of mins backing manu and bowen up.

[Marcus Bryant]

You call me a "homer" and you bring nothing but just that. Like I said you are incapable of doing anything else. Thanks for continue to prove me right. You run your ignorant criticism of the Spurs that falls apart whenever someone bothers to look at the situation and think logically instead of bitching and moaning like some drunk. Fans sitting around scratching their ass and crying about a team is nothing new. That is you. No knowledge of the cap, the business, nothing.

[Admiral]

Who was that directed at, Marcus?

[Marcus Bryant]

Not you unless you would like it to have been.

[Jimcs50]

^^^^I like that Hookah...I used to have one in college that looked like that one. They are great for parties.:)

[Temple Of The Dog]

Fans sitting around scratching their ass and crying about a team is nothing new. That is you. No knowledge of the cap, the business, nothing.

what a load of shit... mr. no limit himself saying that we could sign 2 max free agents come 2003. or don't you remember that part of your "homer" philosophy anymore? you can hide behind a different name, but its the same old tow the company line shit. its like you get paid by the front office to spin every little move.

i wasn't bad-mouthing this years moves... just some of the retarded shit they've done. and here's what i said, and my proof... i said, DA was treated like shit when it came time to resign him, and so was david robinson. my proof is that they called webber and offered robinson a below market contract (without even filling him in as to why) and with DA, they waited and waited on him... making him their plan b... offering doug christie a contract first...

now... a homer like you would say... why lock yourself into a long term contract for a ****-up like doug christie... right? or wait... that was only if they had signed derek anderson, right? (cause there's a huge difference there)

let me guess, you'd probably say it would have been wrong to tie up that money for derek anderson, but not for christie... why? cause you know so much about the cap... right?

yeah... you proved your point. if doug christie was on the team, you'd be jocking his ass too. trying to rationalize that deal for all of us "poor homers" right retard?

its easy to sit there and say "see i told you" when all you did was change your story every time something else happened. i'm beginning to think ghost was right about that part... (i just figured you grew a brain) :)

[Temple Of The Dog]

before i get tagged with "thats not what i said"


Another thing to consider is that the Spurs could have Derek Anderson taking up $7.8 million of their cap next season and then even more over the next 3 seasons. Were the Spurs being cheap....or smart? Of course homer fans are going to bitch when players leave a team but that's life in the NBA.
explain why they offered christie a longer contract... 6 years? the spurs weren't being cheap right... they must have been smart. (especially when they go behind players backs)

[Marcus Bryant]

Apparently the Spurs thought they could afford to sign two max free agents this summer.

Again, the Spurs already have long term contracts extended to:

Duncan (7 years, starts at $12,676,125, ends after 2009-10 season)
Rose (7 years, started at $4,370,000, ends after 2008-09 season)
Nesterovic (6 years, started at $5,450,000, ends after 2008-09 season)

On top of that they have Ginobili, Parker, and Turkoglu coming up for free agency in the next two summers. That's six potential long term contracts. Parker will be max or near max. Had the Spurs not been able to pull off that trade then maybe they are willing to bring Jack back.

Now how the **** does this make the Spurs "cheap"?

Take it another step further.

Assume the following deals are given to Parker, Ginobili, and Turkoglu:

Ginobili (7 years, $6,500,000 starting, ends after 2010-11 season)
Turkoglu (7 years, $6,000,000 starting, ends after 2010-11 season)
Parker (7 years, $9,000,000 starting, ends after 2011-12 season)

Added to the 3 long term deals the Spurs currently have we see the payroll committed to those 6 players as being:

2003-04 $27,439,186
2004-05 $38,263,582
2005-06 $50,768,906
2006-07 $56,069,672
2007-08 $61,370,438
2008-09 $66,671,203
2009-10 $55,058,219

That's what it would roughly cost to retain those 6 long term. Now you can engage in all your childish nonsensical bullshit or you can actually get a fucking clue for once.

I see you've bought into Pop's bullshit about Mercer. And you call me a "homer"?

[Marcus Bryant]

Maybe they thought Christie was a more complete player than DA? Anderson wasn't exactly known for being a defensive wizard. In addition, the offer to Christie was significantly less (starting at < $4 million) than what DA signed with Portland for ($6.5 million). DA's durability was another area of concern due to both knees.

[Temple Of The Dog]

this years moves were not the issue you front office horry... the issue at hand was how they treated derek anderson and david robinson that year (and to a smaller extent tony parker this season)

i think the moves they made at the end (with the trade) saved this year's offseason. you get hedo and mercer for nothing, get a big man in rasho locked up... and have roughly about 13-14 million dollars in capspace next year. enough to match any resonable offer on manu, and maybe another player... and also retain hedo (if he turns into the steal we hope) so in that sense, no complaints.

but thats a far cry from saying that they handled things perfectly or that this is what they wanted... hell they were in talks for spree... even last year for steve smith... and there would have gone your capspace, right? but you being the homer you are... would have come out and said... THATS EXACTLY WHAT I WAS SAYING!!!!

pop just said that "sjax overpriced himself on the FA market" (direct quote from instant replay) whats your take? he might be right, but thats a pretty sucky thing to say about a player who helped you win a championship... it could also hurt his market value with other teams. but pop is classy and sjax is the bum... his agent... like tony parker's... were filling his head with shit.

spin spin spin....

[Admiral]

I'm getting dizzy from all of this spinning. :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

That's nice doggie. Now actually use some facts instead of whining like a little girl. Then I might waste more of my time dealing with your lame takes.

[Temple Of The Dog]

you know admiral... pop should have just come and said we loved sjax but we couldn't make things work. we made other deals that make it hard for us to sign him. (yadda yadda) i think he said too much.

the war of words with derek was great though... they went balls out on him painting him as a bad guy.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs didn't have to do a damn thing with DA. He gave them all they needed in the media. Homers jumped on him for being "greedy" like there was no tomorrow.

[Temple Of The Dog]

peter holt's on air interview with nbc while he was sitting watching the game (where the lakers were trouncing the spurs) where he talked about signing david for less... and talking to DA after they get that worked out...

that wouldn't count for you right?

[Temple Of The Dog]

That's nice doggie. Now actually use some facts instead of whining like a little girl. Then I might waste more of my time dealing with your lame takes.

you didn't answer shit mucus... whats wrong, the spin cycle stuck on flush again?

[Admiral]

That was a classless move by Holt to announce on NBC during the WCF's that David would have to take a paycut to remain in San Antonio. That should have been done in private behind closed doors. However, he redeemed himself somewhat for stepping in and making sure that DRob was re-signed when Pop was ready to let him walk. I think most Spurs fans will agree that Holt was right on that one.

Our front office does a great job obtaining players that are diamonds in the rough or castoffs from other teams. Our guys have a great eye for talent that is unparalleled around the league, but publicly, our front office has not handled some transactions very well. Like it or not, the DA situation blew up in our faces. The DRob situation very nearly could've.

I am still not convinced that the front office didn't want DA once they finally got into negotiations with him (i.e., once Christie and McKie said no). I thought they supposedly caved in and offered him that final seventh year guaranteed, which had supposedly been the big sticking point all along. I'm glad it didn't workout, though, because DA is too injury-prone and isn't good enough to be the second star we tried to make him be when he was here.

[Marcus Bryant]

SA never offered DA 7 years guaranteed. Or 6 years for that matter. Portland straight up offered 6 years. DA was willing to sign with Portland for 6 years at the MLE and that was more than SA was offering guaranteed.

[Temple Of The Dog]

right on admiral... and thats all i was saying. :)

by the way... after the press got wind of the original contract they offered david... the front office had NO CHOICE but to offer what they did to him 2 years 20 million.

[Marcus Bryant]

you didn't answer shit mucus... whats wrong, the spin cycle stuck on flush again?

I've answered your bullshit again and again. All you've done is bitch like a dumbass fan. Answer my analysis or shut up already.

[Admiral]

The fact that is often ignored by most people when discussing negotiations with DRob two years ago is how low the Spurs' initial offer was. DRob was made out by some to be too greedy, but the Spurs' initial offer to him was to the tune of $2 or $3 million per year. They took advantage of DRob's generosity in the past and expected him to play for peanuts, and it backfired. Although $10 million or so was about DRob's market value two years ago, I feel confident that he would've signed with us for significantly less than that had the Spurs not presented him with such an insulting offer to begin with.

[Temple Of The Dog]

your analysis is based on this years result dumbfuck... which had nothing to do with how they treated DA and the fact they went after players who'd still be under contract... and how they treated david... why don't you just go back and read the posts. (then if you come up with a different spin - maybe you can use a no limit name)

i knew a girl named no limit amy once...

[Marcus Bryant]

:sleep

Come on kid, bring something more than that drivel.

[Temple Of The Dog]

you've been hittin' that pipe too hard?
maybe its time you changed names again?

imafrontofficehorry?
popismydaddy?
iwantkiddwaitnoidont?

:blah "no limit"

[Marcus Bryant]

Yes, you are a dumbass.

[Temple Of The Dog]

awww whats the matter? baby gonna cry? :)

go check on what the front office's ass is doing... i'll bet its been 20 seconds since you've kissed it. (they miss you)

[Marcus Bryant]

Cry about what? You've proven you cannot respond to my points in this thread so you resort to acting like the child you are. That's not surprising given your inability to substantiate your points. Call up the Spurs if you have a problem with them. I could give a F less.

[Temple Of The Dog]

i've proved all my points... and there's even other threads out there now that are questioning the same thing. (how we treat our FA's) you smokeweed... get a f'ing clue.

[Marcus Bryant]

You've yet to prove a single thing. Most of that is due to your inability to make even a coherent point. When presented with facts you call me a "homer."

[Temple Of The Dog]

ok.. one more time with feeling:

go back and read what i wrote about derek anderson and how they treated him... go back and read what the admiral wrote on it... go back and read what i said about how they flubbed davids contract...

then go back and read what you said about derek... that homers are sad to see their favorite players leave... but its a business... it wasn't cheap, it was smart not to invest that money in derek.

...especially when they offered the same contract guaranteed to christie... and mckie... who turned them down. and then when they turned to derek, he shot them the finger and forced a sign and trade.

do you get it?

[Marcus Bryant]

DA would've cost more than Christie and McKie. It was not the same money. Both offers to the latter two were for $4 mil or less starting in 2001-02. For DA it was $6 mil. DA also has a major injury involving both knees.

Beyond this the central question in this thread was that the Spurs were being "cheap" by not bringing back Stephen Jackson. Given the situation I would say no. I've pointed out their current obligations and gave a breakdown on that. I've pointed out the potential obligations to Parker, Ginobili, and Turkoglu and gave detail on that. In light of what other NBA teams have done carrying 6 major long term deals is itself somewhat a question mark for this franchise going forward. Apparently the Spurs have decided that since they could make the deal for Turkoglu and Mercer, Jack was expendable. It sucks, but it's a business not whatever else you seem to think it is.

[Temple Of The Dog]

the offer for christy was the same deal they ended up extending to DA... you're point was that they couldn't afford DA and thats wrong. besides we ended up trading kerr in that deal and getting steve smith who was on the books for close to 9 million. (you're wrong)

the central question was the reason the topic changed from sjax to DA... sjax would have never been a starter had that whole deal never happened. we had virtually no talent at alot of spots... we were left with a broken down steve smith, and forced to play sjax at shooting guard last year.

sjax was not a starting quality guard for half or more than half of last year's western conference playoff teams. if he was asking for what is being reported, the spurs probably saw no point in resigning him... making them more flexible to trade offers like the one for spree... and the one that eventually netted hedo and mercer...

[Marcus Bryant]

Was not the same deal.

Yeah Steve Smith was on the books for two seasons at $9 mil. Six or seven seasons guaranteed is greater than two the last time I checked.

SA had both Ginobili and Jack to play at the two in addition to SSmith. Ginobili probably would've been the starter if not for his ankle injury which was sustained in the WBC last summer.

[Temple Of The Dog]

it was the same deal... in fact, it was more because it was for the full contact. (at six years) but christie turned them down and mckie was offered less... after robinson had already agreed to 10 million per for 2.

and sjax was the only one on the roster then... and he played limited mins that year. it was only this last year when we were forced to start him... and bring in manu from overseas. (passing on GG and letting him go for nothing - over capspace concerns for this year)

[Marcus Bryant]

A contract for six years starting at $4 mil is going to be less than one starting at $6 mil. McKie ended up signing a 7 year deal with the Sixers starting at $4 mil in 2001-02. Christie? 5 years starting @ $5.2 mil.

DA? Six years starting @ $6.5 mil with Portland. The offers reportedly made by SA to DA were in the low 40s over six years (ignoring the fact that the last two years were almost entirely nonguaranteed.) A contract starting at $4 million is not going to be worth $40 mil over 6 years.

You said that the Spurs were "forced" to start Jack last year. Ginobili was on the team then, but his recovery from the ankle injury was slow.

[Temple Of The Dog]

oh my god... you're still on this? christie was offered the same contract DA was offered, not the one that he signed and was traded for... both christie and mckie turned down the spurs offers. either way, just quickly figure out in your head what a 6 year contract starting at 5 million would be worth right now... and then ask me about capspace. (if we had signed either christie or mckie)

the spurs were forced to start sjax because of steve smith, the guy we signed and traded DA for... and manu was brought in (buyout) because of the weakness. (GG was let go for nothing because we couldn't afford to keep both he and manu and keep our capspace)

[Marcus Bryant]

Figure out in your head that the Spurs did not offer DA the same deal as they offered Christie. Sacto gave Christie a shorter deal starting at a higher salary.

And yes, the Spurs certainly didn't want to match Portland's offer.

Ginobili was brought in because of his performances in Europe. It was anticipated that he would be a part of the rotation. Had he been healthy I don't think it's a stretch to think he could've challenged for the starting spot early on in the season.

[Ghost Writer]

”SA never offered DA 7 years guaranteed. Or 6 years for that matter. Portland straight up offered 6 years. DA was willing to sign with Portland for 6 years at the MLE and that was more than SA was offering guaranteed.” — Marcus



espn.go.com/nba/news/2001...30547.html (http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2001/0724/1230547.html)

Friday, July 27, 2001
Steve Smith sent packing to Spurs
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Associated Press


&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Anderson

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Smith


PORTLAND, Ore. -- Derek Anderson says the San Antonio Spurs lied to him. The team said he broke his word about re-signing with them. No matter what was promised to whom, Anderson is now with the Portland Trail Blazers.



Anderson was traded to the Blazers on Wednesday for Steve Smith in an exchange of shooting guards, a deal brought on when Anderson rejected a six-year, $42 million offer from the Spurs last week and immediately committed to Portland.



"My loyalty is with the people who are going to be loyal to me," Anderson said during a news conference at the Rose Garden.


The Spurs also included guard Steve Kerr in the deal, which will pay Anderson $48 million over six years.



Anderson signed a one-year deal last season for $2.25 million, with the understanding that he would be rewarded with a long-term contract starting in the $8 million range. Team officials said they had a verbal agreement from Anderson to accept their offer last week.


Anderson, however, was insulted that the deal wasn't fully guaranteed in the final season. When team officials gave him a deadline of 2 p.m. Friday, he and agent Tony Dutt committed to Portland.


"I just think they're in a situation where they have to look at themselves in the mirror and say, `What in the world were we thinking?' Because I did nothing negative to them," Anderson said of the Spurs.


"I don't buy into the `Aw, it's a business, people lie to you.' You don't have to lie to me; tell me the truth and move on."


In a separate news conference in San Antonio, Spurs assistant general manager R.C. Buford responded, "Contract negotiations in team sports happen all the time, and I'm not sure that anything here happened differently than they would most places."


Before the sign-and-trade deal was struck Wednesday, Anderson was prepared to accept the Blazers' mid-level salary-cap exception, which would have paid him $33.8 million over six years -- far less than what he stood to earn with the Spurs.


San Antonio reportedly didn't want to make the trade but risked getting nothing in return for Anderson.


Now they get Smith, whose knees are questionable and who lost his starting job to Bonzi Wells last season. Smith also had been pushing the Blazers for a contract extension, on top of the $19 million he's due to earn over the next two years.



When he heard that Blazers general manager Bob Whitsitt was courting Anderson, Smith demanded to be traded.


"I'm happy to get the chance to go to the Spurs," Smith said Wednesday. "When you get traded or ask to be traded, you never now where you are going to end up. If you had to pick an organization or a team that fits for me and what I stand for, the Spurs were right there on the top of my list."


Buford added, "We're thrilled that this has happened. It's another piece that puts us right back in contention for a championship."


Smith averaged 13.6 points last season and seemed to play better after going to the bench. He regained his starting spot after Wells injured his left knee late in the season, but the Blazers stumbled to an 8-17 record in the final six weeks, capped by a three-game playoff sweep by the Los Angeles Lakers.



Anderson nearly became a Blazer last summer, when he was leaving the Los Angeles Clippers as a free agent. But the deal fell through and Anderson signed with the Spurs. Anderson said he didn't forget how honest Whitsitt was during their talks.



"He was very up-front and stuck by me, and I think that's why I came," Anderson said.


He averaged 15.5 points last season, and his outside shot improved. A career 28 percent shooter from 3-point range before last season, he made nearly 40 percent of his 3-pointers in 2000-01.


Anderson likely will start at shooting guard for the Blazers, with Wells backing him up after he recovers from surgery to repair a torn anterior cruciate ligament.


Kerr, who has two years left on a contract that pays him $2.4 million a year, will be the third-string point guard, behind Damon Stoudamire and Erick Barkley.

:cooldevil

[Ghost Writer]

The Spurs wouldn't have traded for Hedo and Mercer had they intended on re-signing Jackson. Hedo has a big upside, but I think the Spurs are making a mistake by not retaining a graduate of the SPURS BASKETBALL system, like Malik Rose.

Jackson became a real by paying his dues with the Spurs. His "no fear" attitude and shooting saved the Spurs a couple times in the playoffs, most notably in the Suns and Mavs series.

I think the Spurs are lacking in mental toughness for next season with the subtractions of Claxton and Jackson.


:cooldevil

[gospurs21]

GW,
I see it slightly different, than you. The Spurs would not have traded for Hedo and Ron, if Jax had lived up to his word that he was willing to play for the Spurs for a reasonable contract. Unfortunately, Jax sealed his own fate by letting his agent talk him into chasing the money.

Let's use Malik as the case study of how the Spurs reward their players. Malik comes in for a small contract. He shows hustle and is rewarded with a larger contract for a couple of years. He contiues to improve his skills and is rewarded with a MLE type contract for many years. This is how it SHOULD work for small market to avoid JJ type situations.

I have a feeling that Jax's agent convinced him he didn't have to wait for the short term deal at decent money and deserved the long term high dollar rate right now. As much as I love Jax, he is dictating his future. It's fine to want the money as long as he realizes it comes with going to a price that is NOT tied to money (playing time and winning titles).

I agree that the Spurs will not be the same without Speedy and Jax. But Speedy was never coming back, unless Tony was gone. And I would prefer my starting PG to be over 6 ft. I was never a big fan of AJ. As for Jax, he sealed his own fate. Like it or not, that is what happened.

Go Spurs...

[KoriEllis]

Jackson's agent wanted 5-year/$28M, plus some sort of clause that he would start.

The Spurs aren't being cheap. They are being smart. You don't lock in a guy, who has a clutch but erratic game, for five years.

Plain and simple.

[Marcus Bryant]

Ghost you need to learn how to read:


Anderson, however, was insulted that the deal wasn't fully guaranteed in the final season When team officials gave him a deadline of 2 p.m. Friday, he and agent Tony Dutt committed to Portland.
So that wasn't a 6 year, $42 million guaranteed offer. Just like I said.

[Ghost Writer]

I was supporting your take, Marcus. Chill, man!


:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

Ok. That would've been more clear if that section was highlighted.

Apology given.

[Ghost Writer]

I dropped the ball on that one. My bad.

Apology counteroffered.


P.S.

I concur on your thoughts in dealing with Anderson in the past and Jackson in the present. I would be so bold as to add that the Spurs would've taken both of those guards back in their own time and on their own terms.

:cooldevil

[T Park Num 9]

damn the ground just went cold.



Kori your exactly right.


While Stephen Jackson was a clutch shooter and his enthusiasm will be missed, his erratic play and LACK of mental toughness will be missed.


Ghost Im gonna have to respectively disagree on mental toughness.

Mental toughness IMO means being solid and committing no mistakes.

My jack was guilty of that.

No question I will miss him, but its not the end of the world.

[Marcus Bryant]

Damn, this Dog character has united Ghost, timvp, and me. When that happens you know you've done F'ed up.

:drunk

[Ghost Writer]

T Park, I consider mental toughness being able to make fourth quarter shots.

I don't recall Jackson screwing up in any big spots in the playoffs.

:cooldevil

[SequSpur]

Tpark.. is that really you? Going against Jackson? lmao..

Did you get the Homer Lasik Vision Correction finally?

lol

[scott]

All of Jackson's playoff gaffs (I recall some untimely 4Q turnovers and the matador defense that allowed Finley to score the game winner in game 1 of the Dal series) were in areas that I would expect he would improve upon in the offseason (ballhandling and man defense) given his demonstrated work ethic. Absolutely no replacing his big shot ability, unless Horry can return to his old form, which is a questionable proposition at best.

[T Park Num 9]

to each his own.


Sequ, moron, Im not against Jack, Im just dissapointed in his actions of NOT staying.

Im dissapointed that he has let greed get in the way of a full successfull career.


Im disapointed that everything he said, about Dave making him a man, Pop being the only one who could control him, and not wanting to play with anyone BUT his boy manu and tim.


Its dissapointed as a FAN, to hear these things, to see in the press conferences the closeness between two of your favorite players like Jack and Manu, to now see jack being the protypical modern day athlete by choosing money over teammates, coaches and such.

[Ghost Writer]

For every 4th quarter turnover I can think over two steals Jackson made or helped Ginobili collapse on.

Like scott said, ball handling and turnovers can be improved upon, wheras aggressiveness and clutch shooting are intangibles.

:cooldevil

[T Park Num 9]

Agreed.



Apology given.

[SequSpur]

Pop said it was the agent brotha...

The AGENT.

Spurs wanted him, Jack wanted to stay, however he was:

MisFuckingInformed about his Net Worth.

68 turnovers is not worth $28 million no matter how many threes you can hit.

[Temple Of The Dog]

my last few comments were never about sjax or this offseason... maybe on how sjax came into the role of being a starter... and about how we treated our FA (david and DA) during that fateful offseason a few years ago.

can anyone tell me that sjax would have started (or even been on the team) if we had signed doug christie or kept derek anderson? (change my mind)

and does anyone really believe that "the plan" to keep that huge hunk of capspace for this season didn't come only after steve smith (and his contract) came to the spurs?

i was merely pointing out the fact that they backed into "the plan" because of that year. just like they backed into the hedo and mercer trade at the end... after their bid for spree was cut off or went nowhere.

you know, you can still be a fan and point those things out... it ok to not mindlessly shake your head up and down, you know?

i personally feel that interview with pop on instant replay was a little too much. he said that "sjax over-priced himself on the FA market" - no matter what he was asking, i don't think pop should have said that about a player who helped win us a championship. it could affect his market value with other clubs... and i was really shocked to hear it put in those terms.

[Marcus Bryant]

Sequ, maybe the Spurs just don't want to pay his market price? A player asking for more than what a team is offering? I'm shocked.

[T Park Num 9]

Sequ,

The guy is not 10 years old and not able to know the truth.

He can call up Pop and say, whats the truth, whats the deal YOUR offering me.


Hes gotta take a SMALL bit of responsibility.

His agent I agree is a majority of the reason why hes leaving, but jack is a grown up (sometimes mentally thats questionable) and makes his own decisions to sign contracts or not.


Its unfortunate.

[SequSpur]

We won 60 damn games and a NBA Championship with Jack starting.

I have never understood why Pop goes into every season with 4 or 5 new faces... He is like a bitch sometimes, can't make up his mind on what he wants. Jack made turnovers and poor decisions but he also made some big fucking shots.

I don't like Pop, never have, and its not because of Bob Hill either.

He should have resigned his key players from last year and get a big and move the **** on.

Now he has another fucking excuse to start off at .500 for the first few months of the season while we are going to the doc gettin blood pressure medication.

Tpark, no need to cry, players come and go.

[Ghost Writer]

Temple, if Christie or Anderson we risned in 2001, Bowen probably isn't brought in, so Jackson could've stillemerged at the SF/SG.

The Holt-ing Pattern was put into effect when Robinson was re-signed for two years at $10.5 million. The Smith trade set the plan in motion.

:cooldevil

[T Park Num 9]

Sequ,

the guy you think is a moron also helped the team win 60 games and an NBA championship moron.



Loose the hate for pop bozo, without him this team is prob a bottom feeding team.

[SAmikeyp]

If he really wanted to stay here, why not have the cajones to tell his agent "Get it done, you work for me, bitch!" or like T Park said, call Pop himself. Who is going to sign him now? Probably a non-contender with some cap space. Why not take a little less and have a shot at another ring? I blame the Assgent more than I do SJax but again like T Park said, Jack has to take some responsibility.

[scott]

Loose the hate for pop bozo, without him this team is prob a bottom feeding team.

Okay, that's probably going a little too far. For the most part, I like Pop- but to say we'd be a bottom feeding team without him? Jerry Tarkanian could coach our current team (with two time MVP) into the playoffs!!! Okay... maybe not Tarkanian, but any other coach. :)

[SequSpur]

This team won because of Tim Duncan and David Robinson.

Not because of Greg Popovich.

Take them away from the equation and Pop is plucking cotton from a farm down in South Texas...

Beyitchhhhhhhh!

:rollin

[Marcus Bryant]

i was merely pointing out the fact that they backed into "the plan" because of that year. just like they backed into the hedo and mercer trade at the end... after their bid for spree was cut off or went nowhere.

Well sure. No one was arguing that this plan for 2003 had been in place forever. They've done a decent job when they've had to adapt to a situation. One thing that's been good is that they haven't panicked in certain situations and caved...such as with DA and also with Spree. They could've given DA the type of money he wanted early on. The Spurs didn't seem to have a problem coming with the $$$ for Rose when he was a free agent. As for Spree the Spurs could've caved and given up Rose or even Ginobili. I've wanted Spree in SA since 1995 but I'm glad they didn't do that deal this summer.




you know, you can still be a fan and point those things out... it ok to not mindlessly shake your head up and down, you know?

And you know, you can actually point out the problems in fans' argument when they start bitching about the front office without being a "homer." I could give two flips about whether or not the Spurs front office is blameless or whatever.




i personally feel that interview with pop on instant replay was a little too much. he said that "sjax over-priced himself on the FA market" - no matter what he was asking, i don't think pop should have said that about a player who helped win us a championship. it could affect his market value with other clubs... and i was really shocked to hear it put in those terms.

Well all we know is that Jack is looking for 5 years/$28 mil and supposedly a starting clause. Spurs are offering 3 years/$13 mil. The honest answer is that Jack doesn't fit in the Spurs' budget now. Pop doesn't have a degree in PR and sometimes it shows badly. But SA is a city that doesn't care for non-stars who start asking for big $$$.

[SAmikeyp]

since the city of San Antonio does not pay for the salaries of the Spurs players, the city's opinion is irrelevant. I didn't know that Jack had been offered that. I didn't get an email from Pop and since their have not been terms announced I am not sure how "we all knew" what he is being offered. How did you know MB?

[Marcus Bryant]

Read the thread, mikey.

[Temple Of The Dog]

Temple, if Christie or Anderson we risned in 2001, Bowen probably isn't brought in, so Jackson could've stillemerged at the SF/SG.

The Holt-ing Pattern was put into effect when Robinson was re-signed for two years at $10.5 million. The Smith trade set the plan in motion.

but without steve smith, they wouldn't have had max free agent dollars to spend this year and make a run at kidd. (do we agree?) so that means no christie or mckie if you want that kind of flexibility... that wasn't the plan back then. we just kind of backed into it when derek anderson forced that sign and trade.

[SAmikeyp]

I stand corrected. I should have known that Kori would have had the answer. Carry on. :fro

[SkinDogg]

It was no secret that 2003 was Tim's option year. I also recall Robinson telling Duncan in 2000 that he would play for at least three more years - hence Duncan's 3 yr (with a player option for 4) contract. I think the Spurs front office certainly knew how important that summer was going to be.

I have my doubts if DA backing them into a corner made them mystically start to believe they could hoard ending contracts. I'm sure they had the idea beforehand, figuring at worst case - they convince Tim to stay by letting him build his own team. I had always assumed that part of their reluctance to pay DA was because they would have to do so beyond 2003.

Nobody really knows for sure, but it seemed to be more a combination of events.

[travis33]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to contribute something worthwhile too, but this letter really needs to be read...
This only works if you truly believe in it, and if you believe in others. This isn¡¦t for those without faith. I, however, hope that there are others that are willing to believe, like me ƒº

I am forwarding this letter that I read to the rest of you. There is a part that tells you about the legalities of this process. A part that tells of true stories, and a part that explains how this madness actually works. The only part you truly have to concern yourself with is the instructions. Follow the instructions carefully and you can see how five dollars, probability, and multiplication will work to make you thousands. I know it sounds too easy, I thought so too, but my advice to you is...read on, what do you have to lose?


THE FORWARDED LETTER

Dear Friends: Greetings: I am a retired attorney. A few years ago a man came to me with a letter. He asked me to verify the fact that this was legal to do. I told him I would review it and get back to him. When I first read the letter my client brought me, I thought it was some "off-the-wall" idea to make money. A week and a half later we met in my office to discuss the issue. I told him the letter he originally brought me was not 100% legal. My client then asked me to alter it to make it perfectly legal. I asked him to make one small change in the letter. I was still curious about the letter, so he explained to me how it works. I thought it seemed like a long shot, so I decided against participating. But before my client left, I asked him to keep me updated on his results. About two months later, he called me to tell me he had received over $800,000 in cash. I didn't believe him, so he asked me to try this idea and find out for myself. I thought about it for a couple of days and decided I really didn't have anything to lose, so I asked him for a copy of the letters. I followed the instructions exactly, mailed 200 copies, and sure enough, the money started coming in! It arrived slowly at first, but coming. I kept a precise record of the earnings, and in the end, it totaled $978,493! I could hardly believe it. I met with my friend for lunch to find out exactly how it worked. My part in this was to give my help to him, making sure that the whole thing was legal, since no one wants to take the risk of doing something illegal.

By now you are surely curious to know what small changes to make. If you sent a letter like this one out, in order to be completely legal, you must actually sell something in order to receive a dollar in return. So when you send a dollar to each of the names on the list, you must include these words in the messagebox, "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST" and include your name and emailaddress. The item you will receive for the dollar you sent to the five people below is the message with the request.

At the time I first tried this idea, I was earning a good living as a
lawyer. But everyone in the legal profession will tell you there is a lot of stress that comes with the job. I told myself if things worked out, I would retire from my practice and play golf. I decided to try the letter again, but this time I sent 500 copies. Three months later, I had totaled
$2,341,178!


Here are a few reasons a person might give for not trying this program:

- Some people think they can never make a lot of money with anything this simple.

- Some are afraid they will be ridiculed for trying

- Some dream of large sums of money, but do nothing to actually achieve it.
- Some are just plain lazy.

- Some are afraid of losing their investment. They think this program is designed to beat them out of a few dollars.

The system works if you will just try it. But you must follow the simple instructions exactly, and in less than three months, you will be looking at $800,000 ! Keep what you are doing to yourself for awhile. Many will tell you it won`t work and will try to talk you out of your dreams. Let them know of your success after it works.



LETTERS FROM PARTICIPANTS IN THIS PROGRAM:
My name is David Rhodes. In 1992 my car was repossessed and bill collectors were hounding me. I was laid off and my unemployment ran out. In October of 1992, I received a letter telling me how to earn a large sum of money anytime I wanted. Of course, I was skeptical. But because I was so desperate and virtually had nothing to lose, I gave it a try. In January 1993, my family and I went on a 10-day cruise. The next month I bought a brand new Mercedes with cash! I am currently building a home in Virginia and I will never have to work again. This money program really works perfectly every time. I have never failed to receive less than $500,000. This is a legitimate, money-making opportunity. It does not require you to sell anything or to come in contact with people. And , best of all, you only leave the house to mail the letters. If you have always believed that someday you would get the lucky break, then simply follow the instructions and make dreams come true.

Larry McMahon, Norfolk, VA Six months ago, I received this letter and
ignored it. Five more came within a period of time and I ignored them also. I was tempted, but I was convinced that they were just a Hoax. After three weeks of deliberating, I decided to give it a try ( not expecting much ). Two weeks went by and nothing happened. The fourth week was unbelievable! I can't say I received $800,000 but I have received over $120,000. For the first time in years, I am debt free. I am doing this again, only this time starting with 500 post. I strongly recommend that you follow the instructions exactly as outlined in this letter.


INSTRUCTIONS

1. Go to www.paypal.com and open an account. Forward a payment of 5 dollars through your new PayPal account, 1 dollar to each of the five people¡¦s mail addresses listed in the bottom of this page. Select "Service" as payment type. In the Subject field you should write "Mailing list" and in the Note field write the following phrase, "PLEASE PUT ME ON YOUR MAILING LIST" and include your name and email address. What you are doing is requesting a legitimate service and you are paying for it!


2. Now take the #1 name off the list that you see at the bottom, move the other names up (5 becomes 4, 4 becomes 3, etc...) and add YOUR name as number 5 on the list.

3. COPY this letter. You do not have to type it 200 times. Simply place your cursor at the top of the page, hold it and drag it all the way down to the end of the letter. Then click on "edit" and select "copy". Now open up a notepad file on your computer and put the cursor at the top of the page in the notepad, click on 'edit' and then select 'paste' it will copy the letter for you onto your computer.
Remove the name next to the #1 on the list (the list at the bottom of the message) and move the rest of the names up one position (#2 becomes #1, #3 becomes #2, etc.....) Then place your name and your mailaddress (which is your payment address at payPal) in the #5 position. Then save it, make sure it is saved as a .txt file.

4. When you have completed the instructions, type the address of one of
these search engines.

www.google.com
www.yahoo.com
www.altavista.com
www.askjeeves.com
www.Altavista.com
www.Fathead.com
www.TotalSEEk.com
www.Dmoz.com
www.SearchPort.com
www.Jayde.com
www.HotBot.com
www.ICQ IT!.com
www.WorldLight.com
www.Dogpile.com

In the search box, type "message forums" or "discussion forums". A list of over 2 million boards will come up. Go to each board name and right click on the mouse. Select 'copy'. Then go to your "write mail" box, as if you were about to write a letter and select 'paste'. Do that until you have at least 200 locations. The more boards you find, the higher your income potential will be. The search engine will give you a ton of message forums; don't just grab the ones on the first page, dig deep and grab some from the middle and the back also, to help make sure you're visiting places no one has been to already. When you've found your 200+ locations, "copy" all your locations, "paste" them in a word document or notepad, and "Save" the file. Once you have the locations, visit each one, register, and post your letter. It's that simple. How many hours at your current job would it take for you to make 6000 dollars?

Post this article as a new message by highlighting the text of this letter and selecting paste from the edit menu. Fill in the Subject with "This is pretty amazing.......", THAT'S IT! You're done with your first one, Congratulations. Some boards may be difficult to figure out where to post. If any board is too problematic for any reason, simply move on to the next board. Get some of your favorite CDs to listen to while you do this also.
Keep a copy of this letter so you can use it a second time. Post it out
again in six months, but Post it with the addresses you receive with each dollar. It will work better the second time. NOTE: This service is 100% legal - (Refer to title 18 section 1302 of the U.S. Postal & lottery laws).
You can also call the U.S. Post Office (1-800-725-2161) to verify this. Hold on to every letter and mailing list request you receive. They will be proof of your service.


HOW THIS WORKS
When you send out 200 Posts, it is estimated that at least 15 people will respond and send you a $1.00 to be placed on your mailing list ($15.00). Those 15 will Post 200 Posts each and 225 people send you $1.00 to be placed on your mailing list ($225.00). Those 225 people Post 200 Posts each and 3,375 people send you $1.00 to be placed on your mailing list ($3,375.00) Those 3,375 post 200 posts each and 50,625 people send you $1.00 each($50,625). Those 50,625 post 200 posts each and 759,375 people send you $1.00 ($759,375.00) At this point your name drops off the list, but so far you have received $813,615.00. Plus, you will continue to increase your
income when you sell the mailing lists. Even if less then 15 people respond each time, you will still receive an income in the tens of thousands of dollars. The reality is, even if you only made a few hundred dollars out of all this, that's still an excellent return for such a miniscule investment.
Most people spend a lot more on lottery tickets and have nothing to show for it, and forget about how much money is needed to play the market. Also, after posting this message on 100 message boards, it may get boring. Stay focused on what you want and don't quit until you finish.


P.S.
This program remains successful because of the honesty and integrity of the participants and by their carefully adhering to the directions. Look at it this way. If you are of integrity, the program will continue and the money that so many others have received will come your way.

When your money begins to come in, give the first 10% to charity with spirit and share a good fortune!


ADDRESSES TO SEND YOUR PAYMENT OF 1 DOLLAR EACH TO (THROUGH YOUR PAYPAL
ACCOUNT) AND THE MAILING LIST REQUEST:




1) Dick Baldwin, Santa Monica
[email protected]

2) Igor Lobanov, Russia
[email protected]

3) Clark Olsen, Minnesota
[email protected]

4) Alex O'Leary
[email protected]

5) Emmanuel P. Yanez, California
[email protected]