ESPN Article - Spurs’ Player Development Machine

[Dennis the Menace]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiJie7ir8jhAhWC6FQKHRnBBWcQzPwBegQIARAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.espn.com%2Fnba%2Fstory%2F_%2F id%2F26425741%2Fsan-antonio-spurs-go-great-lengths-player-development&psig=AOvVaw30-9PkAgcenACFDh7j8m65&ust=1555083543383105

i suck at this (on mobile) but an excellent article. Don’t ever let Chip leave, IMO.

[$pursDynasty]

This article highlights what I am so excited about when it comes to Lonnie, if the Spurs can instill the mental toughness and high basketball IQ into him, that plus his elite level athleticism will be terrifying to the rest of the league. Not comparing the two but imagine Westbrook if he came up through the Spurs system. Still just as much a killer, still as athletic but brought up the right way and not given carte blanche since day one as he was with the Thunderrefs. The Spurs typically drafted so lowly (picks 26-30) most of the elite athletes were long gone since in the NBA teams prize athleticism above all else, so the Spurs typically went with the less athletic high bbiq types (which weren't as desired by the other gm's around the league). The tail end of the big 3 era to now has allowed the Spurs to draft a little higher (not lottery but in the teens) so hopefully these players Dijon and Lonnie can help us shore up our athleticism deficiencies.

[exstatic]

This article highlights what I am so excited about when it comes to Lonnie, if the Spurs can instill the mental toughness and high basketball IQ into him, that plus his elite level athleticism will be terrifying to the rest of the league. Not comparing the two but imagine Westbrook if he came up through the Spurs system. Still just as much a killer, still as athletic but brought up the right way and not given carte blanche since day one as he was with the Thunderrefs. The Spurs typically drafted so lowly (picks 26-30) most of the elite athletes were long gone since in the NBA teams prize athleticism above all else, so the Spurs typically went with the less athletic high bbiq types (which weren't as desired by the other gm's around the league). The tail end of the big 3 era to now has allowed the Spurs to draft a little higher (not lottery but in the teens) so hopefully these players Dijon and Lonnie can help us shore up our athleticism deficiencies.

The one that really surprised me was Derrick. He's sneaky athletic. His game is so smooth and deliberate, that it's a surprise when he dunks it instead of laying it up. He was likely available because he was a 4 year college player, and teams normally wait for that type to drop into the second round.

[Mr. Body]

The one that really surprised me was Derrick. He's sneaky athletic. His game is so smooth and deliberate, that it's a surprise when he dunks it instead of laying it up. He was likely available because he was a 4 year college player, and teams normally wait for that type to drop into the second round.

White's age definitely scared everyone off. If it takes a few years to develop players, then he could be mid-twenties before he could only be a bench player. Not a great return. But White already looks like a key starter in his second year and potentially much more.

[R. DeMurre]

I love articles like this, and wish they were more common. It's so much more interesting to me than the standard reels of dunk highlights that most media outlets focus on.

Lonnie Walker didn't especially impress me early on in G League games, but his spot minutes at the end of the regular season looked really positive. White's athleticism is seriously underrated, and Walker's is a definite notch above that, so if he develops that gives the Spurs three young combo guards who could potentially play together in certain match ups. As Timvp pointed out, Pop was using Lonnie as a second team PG in some situations, which bodes well for this team's back court depth next season.

[Harry Callahan]

I like the idea of having Walker, White, and Murray as our guards the next few years (hopefully). They are very different in what they do, but it looks like they will get a chance to shine in the future.

A healthy Walker, BTW, looks like he can get any shot he wants pretty much and make it. He just has to pick the right time to make his move. White has already figured that out. Hopefully DJM is getting healthier every day.

[phxspurfan]

"We sent Cameron Hodges with Davis as an assistant coach on the Latvian national team all through international competition that summer just to have somebody there to not only strength-train Davis, but to work him out, because we knew [2017-18] was going to be an important year for him," Spurs general manager RC Buford said.

The strategy worked. Bertans starred in the tournament, averaging 14 points while shooting 44.7 percent from 3-point range, and he's currently one of the reasons the Spurs are entering their NBA-record-tying 22nd consecutive postseason.



my ninja Bert!

[superbigtime]

didn't realize Forcier has been gone 3 years!

[ceperez]

The one that really surprised me was Derrick. He's sneaky athletic. His game is so smooth and deliberate, that it's a surprise when he dunks it instead of laying it up. He was likely available because he was a 4 year college player, and teams normally wait for that type to drop into the second round.

The 4 year college player is now today's foreign player. No GM is willing to risk their job drafting a 4 year player in the first round.

I tell you though, you need a lot of basketball education to learn today's NBA game. The one and done players don't have this, and only become viable once their rookie contract expires.

[exstatic]

The 4 year college player is now today's foreign player. No GM is willing to risk their job drafting a 4 year player in the first round.

I tell you though, you need a lot of basketball education to learn today's NBA game. The one and done players don't have this, and only become viable once their rookie contract expires.

Things go in and out of vogue with NBA GMs. What you say used to be true, but Portland drafted both of their starting back court as 4 year players, and we drafted White. I think it will gradually sink in that a 4 year player likely needs a smaller, shorter development curve. They're easier to project, and while the likelihood of drafting a superstar may be smaller, so is a swing and a miss.

[phxspurfan]

We don't need more PGs thats for sure. We need some SFs

[exstatic]

We don't need more PGs thats for sure. We need some SFs

We need the best basketball players we can get with our three picks. If players are graded on a 100 scale, and there is a SF available who is a 75, and a PG who was rated highly at 88 has fallen, are you really going to take the SF? That would be like the dumbest thing ever. If you have an excess at a position, you don't draft inferior players at another position, you maybe flip one that you've developed for an already developed player at a position of need.

[phxspurfan]

The 4 year college player is now today's foreign player. No GM is willing to risk their job drafting a 4 year player in the first round.

I tell you though, you need a lot of basketball education to learn today's NBA game. The one and done players don't have this, and only become viable once their rookie contract expires.

That's not true. Jalen Brunson and Malcolm Brogdon are two examples that come to mind. Josh Hart as well. They're just not drafted as high because there are can't miss 19 year old prospects who can jump out of the gym, etc. and promoted by the hype machine. When you pick after the lottery you pick whatever is best available or best fit, and it's perfectly acceptable to pick a 4 year player.


That being said, 4 year players sometimes are thought of as guys who aren't can't miss prospects because they aren't one-and-done guys. But some teams (Spurs) don't usually go for those hoops prodigies anyway, due to the AAU /McD's All American crapfest they come from and the bad habits they learn about the game in those systems.

[phxspurfan]

We need the best basketball players we can get with our three picks. If players are graded on a 100 scale, and there is a SF available who is a 75, and a PG who was rated highly at 88 has fallen, are you really going to take the SF? That would be like the dumbest thing ever. If you have an excess at a position, you don't draft inferior players at another position, you maybe flip one that you've developed for an already developed player at a position of need.

Because the market is so liquid you can get equal value by stockpiling PGs and flipping for equal value? GMs know when you fucked up in the draft and fleece you or don't make their guys available. Plus SF is a better, more highly sought after position in positionless bball (they can play pf/c and sg, if mobile enough) than little combo guards. And a 75 rated SF can be developed into a solid role player in Today's NBA. See guys like Jordan Bell, who if we had in our system would probably be worth way more than he is from the Warriors scrap heap.

[exstatic]

Because the market is so liquid you can get equal value by stockpiling PGs and flipping for equal value? GMs know when you fucked up in the draft and fleece you or don't make their guys available. Plus SF is a better, more highly sought after position in positionless bball (they can play pf/c and sg, if mobile enough) than little combo guards.

Our last 3 draftees aren't "little", they're all like 6'4" or 6'5". Oh, and GM's aren't as stupid as you'd paint them. If they need a PG, they'll make that SF available. The ones that operate as you said lose their jobs.

[spurs1990]

What's impressive is that all 11 first round picks in the Duncan era panned out to varying degrees... none of them can be labeled a bust.
And not one picked in top 19 aside from LWIV.

2001(29) - Parker
2004(28) - Udrih (831 career gms)
2005(28) - Mahimi (580 gms)
2007(28) - Splitter (title starter)
2008(26) - Hill (726 gms, multiple deep playoff games starter)
2010(20) - J Anderson (least accomplished, but has 247 gms / 83 starts in career)
2011(29) - Joseph (78 playoff games)
2014(30) - K Anderson (huge contract w/ Mem last year)
2016(29) - Murray (starter)
2017(29) - White (starter)
2018(18) - Walker ( TBD, but very promising)

[GusT15]

What's impressive is that all 11 first round picks in the Duncan era panned out to varying degrees... none of them can be labeled a bust.
And not one picked in top 19 aside from LWIV.

2001(29) - Parker
2004(28) - Udrih (831 career gms)
2005(28) - Mahimi (580 gms)
2007(28) - Splitter (title starter)
2008(26) - Hill (726 gms, multiple deep playoff games starter)
2010(20) - J Anderson (least accomplished, but has 247 gms / 83 starts in career)
2011(29) - Joseph (78 playoff games)
2014(30) - K Anderson (huge contract w/ Mem last year)
2016(29) - Murray (starter)
2017(29) - White (starter)
2018(18) - Walker ( TBD, but very promising)

https://giphy.com/gifs/5gw0VWGbgNm8whttps://media.giphy.com/media/5gw0VWGbgNm8w/giphy.gif

[JPB]

What's impressive is that all 11 first round picks in the Duncan era panned out to varying degrees... none of them can be labeled a bust.
And not one picked in top 19 aside from LWIV.

2001(29) - Parker
2004(28) - Udrih (831 career gms)
2005(28) - Mahimi (580 gms)
2007(28) - Splitter (title starter)
2008(26) - Hill (726 gms, multiple deep playoff games starter)
2010(20) - J Anderson (least accomplished, but has 247 gms / 83 starts in career)
2011(29) - Joseph (78 playoff games)
2014(30) - K Anderson (huge contract w/ Mem last year)
2016(29) - Murray (starter)
2017(29) - White (starter)
2018(18) - Walker ( TBD, but very promising)

+ Manu and Scola... And for the record they had Gobert at their choice, one pick before Utah got it.

[WallyTiger]

their uncle will steal all your success and ruin your legacy like a predator, blood thicker than team culture water.

[wildbill2u]

What's impressive is that all 11 first round picks in the Duncan era panned out to varying degrees... none of them can be labeled a bust.
And not one picked in top 19 aside from LWIV.

2001(29) - Parker
2004(28) - Udrih (831 career gms)
2005(28) - Mahimi (580 gms)
2007(28) - Splitter (title starter)
2008(26) - Hill (726 gms, multiple deep playoff games starter)
2010(20) - J Anderson (least accomplished, but has 247 gms / 83 starts in career)
2011(29) - Joseph (78 playoff games)
2014(30) - K Anderson (huge contract w/ Mem last year)
2016(29) - Murray (starter)
2017(29) - White (starter)
2018(18) - Walker ( TBD, but very promising)

Thanks for that list. When the success rate of players drafted after 15 is about 20% league-wide, the Spurs success with players usually drafted at or near the bottom is spectacular.

[Mr. Body]

What's impressive is that all 11 first round picks in the Duncan era panned out to varying degrees... none of them can be labeled a bust.
And not one picked in top 19 aside from LWIV.

2001(29) - Parker
2004(28) - Udrih (831 career gms)
2005(28) - Mahimi (580 gms)
2007(28) - Splitter (title starter)
2008(26) - Hill (726 gms, multiple deep playoff games starter)
2010(20) - J Anderson (least accomplished, but has 247 gms / 83 starts in career)
2011(29) - Joseph (78 playoff games)
2014(30) - K Anderson (huge contract w/ Mem last year)
2016(29) - Murray (starter)
2017(29) - White (starter)
2018(18) - Walker ( TBD, but very promising)

Well, you have to include Livio Jean-Charles and Milutinov. But you can throw in a relatively decent number of second rounders like Giricek and Dejuan Blair that the team had a hand in.

[spurraider21]

i wouldnt consider james anderson as having panned out

[exstatic]

i wouldnt consider james anderson as having panned out
He likely would have been fine without the Jones fracture. He did better, hurt, than most #20 picks. Can’t believe that he played 200+ games after the injury.

[XDT76]

Well, after reading the article I was thinking maybe it's not only the scouts doing a good job. The amount of effort Spurs put in to develop their players also play a big part to ensure the draftees becomes successful. Livio and Milutinov might be more successful if they had been under the Spurs development program.

[spurraider21]

He likely would have been fine without the Jones fracture.
thats like saying oden was a solid #1 overall pick because he would have been fine but not for the injuries


He did better, hurt, than most #20 picks. Can’t believe that he played 200+ games after the injury.
did he, though? he didnt do anything of note in his career. he was drafted as a shooter and he was a poor shooter at the nba level. averaged less than 6 ppg for his career on 41% shooting

[exstatic]

thats like saying oden was a solid #1 overall pick because he would have been fine but not for the injuries


did he, though? he didnt do anything of note in his career. he was drafted as a shooter and he was a poor shooter at the nba level. averaged less than 6 ppg for his career on 41% shooting

With a broken 5th metatarsal....

Oh, and the Oden comparison is invalid. Oden was damaged goods when drafted. Anderson was very promising before being injured on the job.

[spurs1990]

https://giphy.com/gifs/5gw0VWGbgNm8whttps://media.giphy.com/media/5gw0VWGbgNm8w/giphy.gif

:bobo


Well, you have to include Livio Jean-Charles and Milutinov. But you can throw in a relatively decent number of second rounders like Giricek and Dejuan Blair that the team had a hand in.


I didn't want to count those two international guys since they still haven't played in the league, and their jury is out. Also for other 1st, 2nd rounders they drafted Barbosa, Dragic, John Salmons, who all played close to 800 games, but I'm not sure if they drafted them for themselves or were advised to by another team.


i wouldnt consider james anderson as having panned out
2010 draft was considerably weak after the 20th pick. Only players I would peg as being missed by the Spurs would be Greivus Vasquez (2011 1st Rd vs Mem ugh), Hassan Whiteside, and Lance Stephenson. The latter two you wouldn't want on your roster today fair to say.

[$pursDynasty]

Funny the Spurs develop players, then they leave via big money offers the Spurs aren't willing to match. But of those players that left name me some that continued to improve after leaving the Spurs, I can't think of any recently (Boban, Baynes, Dedmon, Simmons, GHill, CJoseph) heck the same can be said of MVParker and the former KingSlayer. Point being players leave here rarely do they improve or am I missing some guys?

[TDMVPDPOY]

imo the 3 tosb stayed around too long after the last championship run, the younger players all bolted in trades or better pay deal the spurms couldnt fit onto roster due to loyalty contracts to tosb vets

[Seventyniner]

I didn't want to count those two international guys since they still haven't played in the league, and their jury is out. Also for other 1st, 2nd rounders they drafted Barbosa, Dragic, John Salmons, who all played close to 800 games, but I'm not sure if they drafted them for themselves or were advised to by another team.

IIRC the Spurs were told to pick Barbosa and Dragic, like the Pacers were told to pick Number Two. In that case, no credit to PATFO for those two obv.

[CGD]

Wow, Ian and Blair get a shout out in the peice but no mention of Kyle.

[Maddog]

From Deadspin
Then there’s the Spurs, whom frankly I don’t really want to discuss. But discuss them we must! This postseason marks the Spurs’ 22nd straight playoff appearance, and their 29th in the past 30 years. Only eight times, in those 30 frickin’ years, have they made the playoffs and failed to win a series. As a fan of the Washington Wizards, I find that track record absolutely disgusting. It makes me sick.
Anyway here they are, again, in the frickin’ playoffs. Once again, circumstances conspired to deprive them of a vitally important young building-block player for the entire season—this time, limby guard Dejounte Murray tore his ACL in the preseason; last time, Kawhi Leonard just kinda decided he didn’t want to be a Spur anymore—and they just plugged the next dude into the rotation and kept it moving. The Spurs have used one—one—top-20 draft pick since 1998. The active roster they will bring to tonight’s game will include a grand total of two players the Spurs selected in the draft, ever. Disgusting! Outrageous in fact!