Fitzgerald Investigation Will Continue...

[Nbadan]

...with a new Grand Jury


...Fitzgerald's spokesman, Randall Samborn, said the investigation will continue but with a new grand jury. The term of the current grand jury cannot be extended beyond today...."

WTKR (http://www.wtkr.com/global/story.asp?s=4042769&ClientType=Printable)

EVERYONE who is trumpeting the five indictments handed down by Special Counsel Fitzgerald against Libby and hounding the American Public about how this whole matter was started as a result of a false claim of espionage against the Wilson's, be aware that you are ill advised to challenge the legitimacy of those espionage charges.

The lack of such charges at this time does not and can not be construed to be exoneration for high level Bush Administration officials from such charges.

Instead, you are advised that such charges are not YET forthcoming as a result of an incomplete investigation and as the result of clear and charged false statements, perjury, and obstruction of justice as this investigation has been ongoing and prior to the expiration of this FIRST Grand Jury.

Lastly, contained in the Libby indictments are clear examples of statements of fact by the Special Counsel that underscore the potential for many more indictments to be issued based on even more serious charges up to and including espionage.

[Marcus Bryant]

Whatever, man. You were expecting a markedly different outcome today. Keep on :spin ing.

[Murphy]

Rove is 1-0 versus Fitzgerald

[Dos]

fitz.. is schooling reporters... sheesh you would think they wouldn't be so dumb... lol...

[Nbadan]

I would have preferred if Rove was indicted immediately, but the thought that by keeping Rove talking he may eventually take Darth Cheney with him is very intriguing to say the least, especially in light of new evidence which keeps appearing...


Cheney, Libby Blocked Papers To Senate Intelligence Panel
By Murray Waas, special to National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Thursday, Oct. 27, 2005


Vice President Cheney and his chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, overruling advice from some White House political staffers and lawyers, decided to withhold crucial documents from the Senate Intelligence Committee in 2004 when the panel was investigating the use of pre-war intelligence that erroneously concluded Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, according to Bush administration and congressional sources.

Among the White House materials withheld from the committee were Libby-authored passages in drafts of a speech that then-Secretary of State Colin L. Powell delivered to the United Nations in February 2003 to argue the Bush administration's case for war with Iraq, according to congressional and administration sources. The withheld documents also included intelligence data that Cheney's office -- and Libby in particular -- pushed to be included in Powell's speech, the sources said.

The new information that Cheney and Libby blocked information to the Senate Intelligence Committee further underscores the central role played by the vice president's office in trying to blunt criticism that the Bush administration exaggerated intelligence data to make the case to go to war.

The disclosures also come as Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald wraps up the nearly two-year-old CIA leak investigation that has focused heavily on Libby's role in discussing covert intelligence operative Valerie Plame with reporters. Fitzgerald could announce as soon as tomorrow whether a federal grand jury is handing up indictments in the case.

Central to Fitzgerald's investigation is whether administration officials disclosed Plame's identity and CIA status in an effort to discredit her husband, former ambassador and vocal Bush administration critic Joseph Wilson, who wrote newspaper op-ed columns and made other public charges beginning in 2003 that the administration misused intelligence on Iraq that he gathered on a CIA-sponsored trip to Africa.


National Journal (http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2005/1027nj1.htm)

So much for the wing-nut argument that everyone had the same pre-war intelligence on Iraq and Saddam.

[SpursWoman]

And how much is thiiiisssss costing taxpayers?? :spin :lol

[xrayzebra]

And how much is thiiiisssss costing taxpayers?? :spin :lol

The question is: How much is it costing America? Where is the crime?

[Marcus Bryant]

Shit, this is jest 'bout politiks, dats all.

[Extra Stout]

Fitzgerald was planning to indict Rove, but Luskin provided some new information at the last minute...

So Fitzgerald has to investigate this new morsel before making the final decision on what to do with Rove.

What was this new information? Did Rove flip? nobody knows.

[Extra Stout]

And how much is thiiiisssss costing taxpayers?? :spin :lol
Nothing. Fitzgerald is not a special prosecutor. It's not like Starr, who stopped getting paid once the investigation is over. Fitzgerald already is on the federal payroll.

The other federal prosecutors in Chicago have to handle the caseload Fitzgerald would have been taking on. And since he's the best prosecutor in the United States, those are big shoes to fill. It's not costing us anything extra, but those guys are very busy.

[Extra Stout]

The question is: How much is it costing America? Where is the crime?
If perjury and obstruction of justice in a case concerning a blowjob are impeachable offenses, then perjury and obstruction of justice concerning espionage certainly are serious crimes.

I get the feeling the next few weeks my fellow conservatives are going to be parroting a lot of really dumb talking points.

The case against Libby is very strong.

[Yonivore]

If perjury and obstruction of justice in a case concerning a blowjob are impeachable offenses, then perjury and obstruction of justice concerning espionage certainly are serious crimes.

I get the feeling the next few weeks my fellow conservatives are going to be parroting a lot of really dumb talking points.

The case against Libby is very strong.
I agree. He was stupid for lying if, in fact, the indictments are as presented. They're pretty strong.

But, to the dismay of the Left, the indictments indicate something else. That this administration did what it promised, unprecedented cooperation with the special prosecutor. It's the anti-watergate if you ask me. These indictments read like Fitzgerald had the cooperation of everyone from the President on down.

I'm willing to hear Libby's side before I pass judgement but these aren't any Ronnie Earle indictments.

I do wish you would admit one thing ES. The Clinton impeachment was about perjurty and obstruction designed to deny an American due process. He lied NOT to save himself embarrassment but to thwart the Paula Jones lawsuit.

That is and impeachable offense.

[Vashner]

hahah CNN was so blood lust Libby was not good enough

"Investigation will continue..."

Rove is clean... get over it.. hahah..

You looze again.

[Marcus Bryant]

If perjury and obstruction of justice in a case concerning a blowjob are impeachable offenses, then perjury and obstruction of justice concerning espionage certainly are serious crimes.

I get the feeling the next few weeks my fellow conservatives are going to be parroting a lot of really dumb talking points.

The case against Libby is very strong.


Sure, they are serious charges...against a staffer, not against the POTUS.

[Extra Stout]

I'm willing to hear Libby's side before I pass judgement but these aren't any Ronnie Earle indictments.
True. The difference between Earle and Fitzgerald could not be more complete. Fitzgerald has been meticulous and has erred on the side of caution the whole way. If an indictment would be questionable, then he hasn't sent down that indictment.

Earle on the other hand finagled the system to get an indictment any way he could, no matter how shaky the allegations, and no matter how many grand juries he had to shop. His case against DeLay is going nowhere, and frankly I think all he cared about was getting the indictment so DeLay had to step down, rather than actually getting a conviction.


I do wish you would admit one thing ES. The Clinton impeachment was about perjurty and obstruction designed to deny an American due process. He lied NOT to save himself embarrassment but to thwart the Paula Jones lawsuit.OK, fine. I'll grant that. I still think this is much more serious, and I fear we're going to hear a lot of spin and downplaying of these charges, and characterization of Fitzgerald as a political hack.

Believe me, if Fitzgerald were a political hack, he would have rushed to get indictments out 12 months ago in order to affect the elections. He didn't do that because he's more concerned about uncovering the truth.

[SpursWoman]

Nothing. Fitzgerald is not a special prosecutor. It's not like Starr, who stopped getting paid once the investigation is over. Fitzgerald already is on the federal payroll.


Sorry, I was being facetious ... just one of those days. :)

[Extra Stout]

Sure, they are serious charges...against a staffer, not against the POTUS.I don't think that Bush at any time has been implicated in the leaking of a CIA agent's identity, or the subsequent cover-up.

He had to testify about what he knew. That's all.

[ClintSquint]

http://www.bartcop.com/bushbast.gif

[Marcus Bryant]

I would think that perjury in a sexual harassment suit would be of a sufficient concern in this day and age. Lest we forget that episode arose because VJ had found a way to get Webb Hubbell and Whatshername paid.

[ClintSquint]

This stinks more than Monica Lewinsky's blue dress.

[MannyIsGod]

One thing I absolutely can't stand is how when confronted with issues on the Bush presidency, people respond with "But Clinton".

Clinton is out of office and he had his day in court and is completely irrelevent when it comes to the current situation. What difference does it make what happend to him and whether or not there was illegal activity involving white house staffers and the administration in general? None.

[TheSuckUp]

I strongly support Mr. Fitzgerald's professionalism and "stick-to-it" attitude no matter what the consequences.

[Marcus Bryant]

So the standards to which an administration will be held vary by the administration?

Understood.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't think you ever heard me say the Clinton indictment was incorrect, or that this one was correct and vice versa. I'm just sick of people bringing irrelevent information into a debate. When you stop into a courtroom, you are not allowed to present information about an entirely unrelated case.

This isn't about politics. It is about the law being broken.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well, that was the prior administration and the head of it had impeachment proceedings brought of it due to a perjury charge.

[boutons]

"But Clinton".

The Repubs think Clinton was piece of shit. So when their own people are in question, they refuse to address that issue directly, but compare every issue to the shit of Clinton.

"Compared to shit Clinton, we smell better", which means their basis of comparison, of evaluation of their own situation is lowered to the level of shit.

[MannyIsGod]

Fuck, Boutons nailed it for once.

[JoeChalupa]

"But Clinton".

The Repubs think Clinton was piece of shit. So when their own people are in question, they refuse to address that issue directly, but compare every issue to the shit of Clinton.

"Compared to shit Clinton, we smell better", which means their basis of comparison, of evaluation of their own situation is lowered to the level of shit.

I concur. Well said.

[Useruser666]

I don't believe a forum conservative brought up Clinton in this thread. It was Extra Stout who actually mentioned that name.

[scott]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Extra Stout qualifies as a "forum conservative." I guess it's hard to confuse because he isn't a wacko like our more evident forum conservatives and liberals.

[SA210]

Boutons, exactly,

They're talking smack because so far their was only one indictment. Wow, only one indictment . Like that's not bad. And like Libby didn't have much to do with evil Cheney. yea sure.

[Useruser666]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Extra Stout qualifies as a "forum conservative." I guess it's hard to confuse because he isn't a wacko like our more evident forum conservatives and liberals.

In the context of what he said, I don't believe he was using Clinton as the typical "crutch" conservative argument.


If perjury and obstruction of justice in a case concerning a blowjob are impeachable offenses, then perjury and obstruction of justice concerning espionage certainly are serious crimes.

I get the feeling the next few weeks my fellow conservatives are going to be parroting a lot of really dumb talking points.

The case against Libby is very strong.

[JoeChalupa]

What goes around....

[Yonivore]

...and I fear we're going to hear a lot of spin and downplaying of these charges, and characterization of Fitzgerald as a political hack.
I'd be very surprised if anyone in the Bush administration attempts to assassinate Fitzgerald's character.

From all appearances, Libby screwed up.

[exstatic]

Excuse me? That's what this administration has done at every turn: virulently attack those who disagree or get in their way. That's pretty much what got them into this mess, but I don't think they've learned a damn thing.

[SpursWoman]

"But Clinton".

The Repubs think Clinton was piece of shit. So when their own people are in question, they refuse to address that issue directly, but compare every issue to the shit of Clinton.

"Compared to shit Clinton, we smell better", which means their basis of comparison, of evaluation of their own situation is lowered to the level of shit.

Stated more simplistically, it's like hanging around girls uglier and fatter than you because it makes you look better.

:lol :lol

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I'm pretty sure this is going to continue going up the food chain, Libby didn't do this without the concent of his boss, and all of you conservatives, deep down, and though you really don't want to admit it, know that there was someone higher up colaborating with him.

The fact that you want to down play what amounts to even stronger evidence that Bush doctered the case for war than the downing street memo, because it shows to what lenght the administartion went to in order to stretch their version of the truth

[gtownspur]

The leak was not a crime. It doesnt matter now who leaked it according to the investigation. Get it through your fucking heads.

[Nbadan]

The leak was not a crime. It doesnt matter now who leaked it according to the investigation. Get it through your fucking heads.

:rolleyes

Quit listening to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. We simply don't know if leaking the information to reporters was a crime because that has yet to be determined by Fitzgerald. The report did state that Plame was a active covert agent when Robert Novak wrote his article exposing her. Novak is not authorized to have that kind of information.

[SA210]

The leak was not a crime. It doesnt matter now who leaked it according to the investigation. Get it through your fucking heads.


well, why is the White House lying about the leak? What are they trying to hide?

[NameDropper]

Rumor around Washington is that there is no doubt Bush and Cheney were in charge of this smear campaign and as is the method those in power will attempt to divert attention from their problems in any way possible.

This just reeks of a conspiracy theory.

[SA210]

^^^ yup

[exstatic]

well, why is the White House lying about the leak? What are they trying to hide?

Nail, head, bang. Why not come out and say "Yeah, we had some discussions about who was this asshat who wrote that op-ed piece. What of it?"

The Republican's first instinct is to lie and coverup. Their second instinct is to do it badly, leaving tape recorders running, or notes of that Cheney meeting laying around.

[SA210]

^^^ exactly, let's see how they spin that, believe me, they will.

[boutons]

A lot of Repubs see the Fitzgerald Party as being very distracting from here on (much like they did to Clinton for trivial reasons), and are very pissed that the WH did not fix this problem a long time ago, get the guilty ones to fall on a sword, and get it over with.

dubya's second term is already lame duck with 39 months to go, and dubya lamed it himself.

If dubya puts up a Bork/Scalia/Thomas type of retrogressive, 8000-words-and-done Constitutional primitivist, I'm sure the Dems feel emboldened to leave nobody standing on the field of battle.

dubya has already murdered the idea of "Senate deference to the WH choice" which used to be a conservative principle until the choice was Miers.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

I hate that miers didnt end up in the court, it came out that she was pro-choice the day she took her name out.

[gtownspur]

:rolleyes

Quit listening to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. We simply don't know if leaking the information to reporters was a crime because that has yet to be determined by Fitzgerald. The report did state that Plame was a active covert agent when Robert Novak wrote his article exposing her. Novak is not authorized to have that kind of information.

I dont know NBaDan, maybe because the investigation has lasted 2 yrs and the prosecutor hasnt charged anyone. Anyway you seemed to be postin 10000 post on what you thought the outcome was gonna be and you assured us that 5 people would be convicted. But now you finally say we dont know anything... How convenient.

The media conducted its own investigation on behalf of J miller and said it themselves that no crime was commited. Then the media turned around and stated that The white house did commit a crime in outing V Plame. The media then had a witch hunt over the whole matter probably causing the admin to watch what they would say.

The report did state that plame was only active in the CIA, but that the statue law did not show any crime was commited. Fitzgerald has had 2 yrs to find what crime was commited. We only got perjury.

[Nbadan]

I dont know NBaDan, maybe because the investigation has lasted 2 yrs and the prosecutor hasnt charged anyone. Anyway you seemed to be postin 10000 post on what you thought the outcome was gonna be and you assured us that 5 people would be convicted. But now you finally say we dont know anything... How convenient.

Watergate started with one indictment. Unfortunately, in government this is the way things sometimes go. From what I have read, Fitzgerald has the goods on Libby that could put him away for up to 30 years. Will a deal induce Libby to talk? Then we also have this matter with the forgered Niger documents. Fitzgerald is hot the the trail of the forgerers and if what I have read is true, Republicans aren't gonna like where this is gonna go.

[Nbadan]

It's gonna be hard for Libby's lawyers to claim that he simply forgot...

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a197/dotcosm/Libby.jpg

[SA210]

^^^ again,

it's plain and simple. If they're so innocent...

Why are they lying? What do they have to hide?

[Spam]

To be honest...I was hoping for more.