Taking Down Biden, His History

[boutons_deux]

Joe Biden: Puffery vs. Reality (https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/04/25/joe-biden-puffery-vs-reality/)
Biden’s huge task is to hide his phoniness.

Biden has a media image that exudes down-to-earth caring and advocacy for regular folks. But his actual record is a very different story.

During the 1970s, in his first Senate term, Biden spouted white backlash rhetoric (https://games-cdn.washingtonpost.com/notes/prod/default/documents/3d9be388-6871-4993-ae53-869a88c3c6eb/note/f8e04c01-66d9-44be-87e1-5ef753b81b83.pdf), used tropes pandering to racism (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bidens-tough-talk-on-1970s-school-desegregation-plan-could-get-new-scrutiny-in-todays-democratic-party/2019/03/07/9115583e-3eb2-11e9-a0d3-1210e58a94cf_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.1673c23e88f4&wpisrc=nl_evening&wpmm=1) and teamed up with arch segregationists (https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/11/politics/joe-biden-busing-letters-2020/index.html) against measures like busing for school integration.

He went on to be a fount of racially charged appeals (https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/22/us/politics/joe-bidens-role-in-90s-crime-law-could-haunt-any-presidential-bid.html) and “predators on our streets” oratory (https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/07/politics/biden-1993-speech-predators/index.html) on the Senate floor as he led the successful effort (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/23/joe-bidens-tough-on-crime-past-could-haunt-him/?utm_term=.d11af16b5a6a) to pass the now-notorious 1994 crime bill.

In 1991, as chair of the Judiciary Committee, Biden prevented key witnesses (https://www.salon.com/2017/11/22/anita-hill-still-blames-joe-biden-for-the-clarence-thomas-disaster/) from testifying to corroborate Anita Hill’s accusations of sexual harassment during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings for the Supreme Court.

In 2002, as chair of the Foreign Relations Committee, Biden was the Senate’s most crucial supporter (https://progressive.org/dispatches/the-other-reason-biden-shouldnt-run-Zunes-190402/) of the Iraq invasion.

Biden continued his assist for strengthening oligarchy as a powerful champion of legalizing corporate plunder (https://harpers.org/archive/2019/03/joe-biden-record/) on a mind-boggling scale.

Biden is the most reliable alternative for corporate America.

He has what Sanders completely lacks — vast experience (https://harpers.org/archive/2019/03/joe-biden-record/) as an elected official

serving the interests of credit-card companies, big banks, insurance firms and other parts of the financial services industry.

His alignment with corporate interests has been comprehensive.

It was a fulcrum of his entire political career when, in 1993, Sen. Biden voted yes while most Democrats in Congress voted against NAFTA.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/04/25/joe-biden-puffery-vs-reality/ (https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/04/25/joe-biden-puffery-vs-reality/)

[Will Hunting]

He's going to be out of the race very quickly once his track record gets more exposed.

[Pavlov]

He'll be the frontrunner for a long time if not permanently.

[FrostKing]

Only one that can defeat Trump

[rmt]

Only one that can defeat Trump

I agree - don't think US is ready for Bernie's policies (yet).

[boutons_deux]

I'm pretty sure Biden is the Dem establishment's preferred center-right neoliberal, pro-Capital / anti-Labor candidate.

I expect they will put their put their thumb on the scale, surreptitiously, as they did with Bernie 2016.

[boutons_deux]

Joe Biden’s long record supporting the war on drugs and mass incarceration, explained

Biden was a major Democratic leader in spearheading America’s war on drugs during the 1980s and ’90s.

he spent years leading the charge on policies escalating mass incarceration and the war on drugs — policies that much of the Democratic Party now strongly opposes.

at sharp odds with where Democrats are today: He has one of the most punitive, “tough on crime” records on criminal justice issues within the 2020 field —

more so than even opponents Kamala Harris (https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/1/23/18184192/kamala-harris-president-campaign-criminal-justice-record) or Amy Klobuchar (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/25/18225011/amy-klobuchar-president-prosecutor-criminal-justice-record), both of whom have already been criticized for their records.

This was a problem for Hillary Clinton in 2016 (https://www.vox.com/2016/2/11/10961362/clinton-1994-crime-law), when she had to answer for the criminal justice policies of her husband as Black Lives Matter and criminal justice reformers took center stage in the Democratic primaries.

he’s actually done really deeply disturbing, dangerous reforms that have made the criminal justice system more lethal and just bigger.”

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/25/18282870/joe-biden-criminal-justice-war-on-drugs-mass-incarceration (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/25/18282870/joe-biden-criminal-justice-war-on-drugs-mass-incarceration)

[boutons_deux]

CNN Looks Back on Failed Biden Bids in Brutal Overview: ‘He’s Never Really Relevant’


https://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnn-looks-back-on-failed-biden-bids-in-brutal-overview-hes-never-really-relevant/

[AaronY]

boutons hates him at least which is a good sign

[FrostKing]

Joe Biden’s long record supporting the war on drugs and mass incarceration, explained

Biden was a major Democratic leader in spearheading America’s war on drugs during the 1980s and ’90s.

he spent years leading the charge on policies escalating mass incarceration and the war on drugs — policies that much of the Democratic Party now strongly opposes.

at sharp odds with where Democrats are today: He has one of the most punitive, “tough on crime” records on criminal justice issues within the 2020 field —

more so than even opponents Kamala Harris (https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/1/23/18184192/kamala-harris-president-campaign-criminal-justice-record) or Amy Klobuchar (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/25/18225011/amy-klobuchar-president-prosecutor-criminal-justice-record), both of whom have already been criticized for their records.

This was a problem for Hillary Clinton in 2016 (https://www.vox.com/2016/2/11/10961362/clinton-1994-crime-law), when she had to answer for the criminal justice policies of her husband as Black Lives Matter and criminal justice reformers took center stage in the Democratic primaries.

he’s actually done really deeply disturbing, dangerous reforms that have made the criminal justice system more lethal and just bigger.”

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/25/18282870/joe-biden-criminal-justice-war-on-drugs-mass-incarceration (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/4/25/18282870/joe-biden-criminal-justice-war-on-drugs-mass-incarceration)



Siding with criminals. Yikes.

[DarrinS]

Democrat circular firing squad with Biden in the middle. So self defeatist.

[ElNono]

He’s just not a good candidate, period. No new ideas, nothing he particularly stands for, lots of skeletons in the closet, etc.

[pgardn]

dont matter

Orange ape goes down.

[Chucho]

dont matter

Orange ape goes down.

LOL, he's going to win, sadly. The Democrats will trip over their own dick again. This might be another election I abstain from unless a decent conservative rises up to challenge and steal the nomination...Democrats are a mess currently and most party goers are depending on Trump's fuckery to get their chosen one in moreso than what the chosen one stands for beyond "It's fucking Donald Trump for Christ's sake.".

[boutons_deux]

dont matter

Orange ape goes down.

Bernie could be the Nader, again.

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/hodgetwins/status/1121545085403811840

/thread

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1121516532708757504

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5BtQ9iUEAA3WQn.jpg:large


:lmao

[GAustex]

That clip of dirty old Joe tweeking that 10 year olds nip is unbelievable

[DarrinS]

But he did launch his campaign with the "very fine people on both sides" lie

[Will Hunting]

Only one that can defeat Trump


I agree - don't think US is ready for Bernie's policies (yet).


Democrat circular firing squad with Biden in the middle. So self defeatist.
Shocker, the conservatives in this thread think liberals should embrace the most centrist candidate in the primary who aligns closest with their views.

[DarrinS]

Shocker, the conservatives in this thread think liberals should embrace the most centrist candidate in the primary who aligns closest with their views.

Yes. Definitely don't let him win the primary. Thx

[Will Hunting]

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1121516532708757504

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5BtQ9iUEAA3WQn.jpg:large


:lmao
The black vote was already going to be tough for him with his track record :lol

[Chris]

The black vote was already going to be tough for him with his track record :lol

I watched his campaign ad and his eyes looked black as coals.

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/realDailyWire/status/1121498624976936960

[Pavlov]

https://twitter.com/realDailyWire/status/1121498624976936960Well she worked for Bernie and now Joe.

She's doing a terrible job of not backing white leaders tbh.

[TheGreatYacht]

“I Was Ready To Prostitute Myself!” - Biden

https://youtu.be/soGNIATFDvs

[Chris]

It gets worse.

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1121559936901599232

[Pavlov]

It gets worse.

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1121559936901599232Trump wanted to kill innocent black men too.

Still does.

Are you sure Joe wasn't talking about him?

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/MarkDice/status/1121870962247356416

[Pavlov]

So racist she works for white men!

[Chris]

Joe Biden on Barack Obama in 2007:

"first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy.”

[Pavlov]

Man, you guys are really struggling to find anything on Biden.

[boutons_deux]

Man, you guys are really struggling to find anything on Biden.

nah, just posting what others are dragging out, there's a lot of shit

[GAustex]

That clip of dirty old Joe tweeking that 10 year olds nip is unbelievable

[Isitjustme?]

It gets worse.

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1121559936901599232

wait till Saavedra finds out about this https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+central+park+five&oq=trump+central+park+five&aqs=chrome..69i57.8663j0j4&sourceid=silk&ie=UTF-8

[ducks]

Andrew Stein: Sanders Could Make Independent Bid If He Loses Dem Nomination

[ducks]

Joe Biden Raised $6.3 Million In His First 24 Hours In The Race

[Isitjustme?]

Joe Biden Raised $6.3 Million In His First 24 Hours In The Race

Thanks for the good news!

[Chris]

Trump ding

[Isitjustme?]

lol talk about Pavlovian: "whats this? A Democrat is in news so he or she is in need of demonizing?..off to the saavedra twitter feed for ammo on anything that makes him look as bad as possible"

[Winehole23]

Biden has a pattern of flaming out early.

What does his war chest look like?

[ducks]

“I am extremely happy that @JoeBiden has decided to enter the race. He offers Dems the very best chance in 2020, especially in key states. He has the fight, intelligence and fortitude to beat Trump and begin to make America, America again. He has my enthusiastic support,” Avenatti tweeted.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I'm pretty sure Biden is the Dem establishment's preferred center-right neoliberal, pro-Capital / anti-Labor candidate.

I expect they will put their put their thumb on the scale, surreptitiously, as they did with Bernie 2016.

Biden will win the superdelegates which are a huge chunk of the nomination

[Winehole23]

Make America America again, Avenatti tweeted.

[ducks]

Nope he endorsed biden

[Will Hunting]

Biden will win the superdelegates which are a huge chunk of the nomination
Superdelegate voting is way different this time and will have less of an impact since they don’t cast their vote until nomination night. If someone like Bernie is really close to having the delegates needed and the superdelegates still go with Biden despite what the voters want there would be a complete revolt within the Democratic Party.

[rmt]

Shocker, the conservatives in this thread think liberals should embrace the most centrist candidate in the primary who aligns closest with their views.

Please vote Bernie for the nomination. Most older Dems will hold their noses, and vote Trump to protect their Medicare (and not Medicare for All) and not pay for free college tuition/forgiveness of student loans.

[TheGreatYacht]

Shocker, the conservatives in this thread think liberals should embrace the most centrist candidate in the primary who aligns closest with their views.

Trump and conservatives are smart. They pick the shittiest candidate on the Democrats they know Trump will obliterate.

[Pavlov]

Please vote Bernie for the nomination. Most older Dems will hold their noses, and vote Trump to protect their Medicare (and not Medicare for All) and not pay for free college tuition/forgiveness of student loans.The Medicare Trump wants to cut funding for?

[Millennial_Messiah]

Superdelegate voting is way different this time and will have less of an impact since they don’t cast their vote until nomination night. If someone like Bernie is really close to having the delegates needed and the superdelegates still go with Biden despite what the voters want there would be a complete revolt within the Democratic Party.

They actually got around to changing the process? :lol good work Democrats though, but it's baby steps, because they should eliminate the superdelegates anyway, it's anti-constitutional.

[rmt]

The Medicare Trump wants to cut funding for?

As opposed to the whole thing going UNDER as Medicare for All? Older people have contributed their whole working life to Medicare (and the program is still gonna run into trouble soon) - do you think they want to pay for Medicare for All which will endanger their won Medicare?

[Pavlov]

As opposed to the whole thing going UNDER as Medicare for All? Older people have contributed their whole working life to Medicare (and the program is still gonna run into trouble soon) - do you think they want to pay for Medicare for All which will endanger their won Medicare?As long as theirs stays the same they probably won't care -- and it probably will stay the same.

lol your scare tactics

[Will Hunting]

They actually got around to changing the process? :lol good work Democrats though, but it's baby steps, because they should eliminate the superdelegates anyway, it's anti-constitutional.
Agreed completely but I’m optimistic that the way it’s done now will basically make it so the superdelegates will need to go with the voters. If candidate X is winning among all of the voters but loses the final delegate count because the superdelegates close the gap for candidate Y on nomination night it’d be such a blatant act of voter disenfranchisement that someone would probably challenge it in court.

Even in 2008 the superdelegates started flipping from Clinton to Obama once it was clear the voters were favoring Obama.

[baseline bum]

Shocker, the conservatives in this thread think liberals should embrace the most centrist candidate in the primary who aligns closest with their views.

They tell us for years how horrible Clinton was and then want another Clinton who would beat Trump easily.

[baseline bum]

Please vote Bernie for the nomination. Most older Dems will hold their noses, and vote Trump to protect their Medicare (and not Medicare for All) and not pay for free college tuition/forgiveness of student loans.

Holy fuck you're retarded WC. Die in a fire pls.

[Will Hunting]

As opposed to the whole thing going UNDER as Medicare for All? Older people have contributed their whole working life to Medicare (and the program is still gonna run into trouble soon) - do you think they want to pay for Medicare for All which will endanger their won Medicare?
The people who believe your hourseshit about how MEDICARE FOR ALL = MEDICAIRE FOR NONE!!! are voting Republican regardless of who the candidate is on the Democrat side.

The song and dance about how old people have been contributing their entire life is also just more sanctimonious drivel from baby boomers and the “silent” generation. Baby boomers have known that Medicaire has been underfunded for decades because of outdated actuarial projections that assume an average life expectancy in the 60s, but they wanted no part of changing it or making it sustainable until millennials and gen Xers would be the ones shouldering the tax burden for it.

[Will Hunting]

They tell us for years how horrible Clinton was and then want another Clinton who would beat Trump easily.
I don’t buy it that Biden beats Trump easily. He’s a better candidate than Clinton because he comes off as more folksy and genuine but he’s also very much a career politician who’s never stood for anything. The fact he’s a Delaware politician also makes him repulsive. I don’t see how he inspires the voter turnout among millennials or blacks that’s required to beat Trump. He has too many sound bites about how young people are lazy and his track record on civil rights has its holes. He’s also been a big supporter of neoliberalism and free trade which makes him vulnerable against Trump.

I think he beats Trump in 2016 but beating Trump as an incumbent after going through what’s going to be a brutal primary is tall task for him.

[baseline bum]

I don’t buy it that Biden beats Trump easily.

Should have put in blue for sarcasm since all I hear from the right is any Democrat milquetoast not on the left would easily beat him. Just like the last Democrat milquetoast centrist did.

[Will Hunting]

Should have put in blue for sarcasm since all I hear from the right is any Democrat milquetoast not on the left would easily beat him. Just like the last Democrat milquetoast centrist did.
Ah ok.

To be fair, I hear it from the left just as much. Bill Maher went from being someone who begged Warren to run against Hillary in 2016 to more or less crying about Bernie supporters being :cry unreasonable :cry on his show every week because the Dems need to focus on “winning the center”.

God knows MSNBC crams it down its viewers’ throat too, Joe Scarborough’s shtick these days is having Claire McCaskill on his show so she can provide viewers with her “expertise” on how she won the center in Missouri by not being a “crazy Democrat” when the actual reality is that she only won in 2006 because of a historically unpopular Republican President and again in 2012 only because her opponent made one of the most retarded comments about a rape/pregnancy in the history of abortion debates.

[Pavlov]

If Bernie loses again and his supporters pout and stay home again, Trump wins easily.

Bernie supporters need to stop pouting.

[baseline bum]

God knows MSNBC crams it down its viewers’ throat too, Joe Scarborough’s shtick these days is having Claire McCaskill on his show so she can provide viewers with her “expertise” on how she won the center in Missouri by not being a “crazy Democrat” when the actual reality is that she only won in 2006 because of a historically unpopular Republican President and again in 2012 only because her opponent made one of the most retarded comments about a rape/pregnancy in the history of abortion debates.

Wow, network sounds like a dumpster fire. As for Maher, I stopped paying attention to him once he said crystal meth was just uppers and lots of successful people use speed.

[Pavlov]

The voting population on the whole went a little to the left. You got moderate Democrats elected in Round Rock and far left Democrats elected in the Bronx. It's not rocket science.

[Will Hunting]

If Bernie loses again and his supporters pout and stay home again, Trump wins easily.

Bernie supporters need to stop pouting.
Ignoring how blown out of proportion the “Sanders supporters stayed home and ruined it for Hillary!” narrative is, the attitude that Sanders supporters owe their vote to whoever wins regardless of that candidates’ views or track record is what’s wrong with the Democratic Party. If someone beats Bernie and that person wants votes from Bernie supporters, he should give them a reason to show up and vote other than “I’m the Democrat and the other guy is a Republican”.

The mainstream Democrats who value beating Trump over everything else need to recognize that a lot progressives no longer see the point of aiding a two party system where both parties support things like private healthcare, increased fossil fuel usage and deregulating Wall Street.

Even if it means the Republicans are able to cause another Great Depression in the short term because Biden doesn’t have enough support within his base to win, I still see more value in voting for Trump as a way to cripple the establishment Dems than I do electing another centrist hack like Biden who wouldn’t bring about any meaningful change.

[Pavlov]

Ignoring how blown out of proportion the “Sanders supporters stayed home and ruined it for Hillary!” narrative is, the attitude that Sanders supporters owe their vote to whoever wins regardless of that candidates’ views or track record is what’s wrong with the Democratic Party. If someone beats Bernie and that person wants votes from Bernie supporters, he should give them a reason to show up and vote other than “I’m the Democrat and the other guy is a Republican”.

The mainstream Democrats who value beating Trump over everything else need to recognize that a lot progressives no longer see the point of aiding a two party system where both parties support things like private healthcare, increased fossil fuel usage and deregulating Wall Street.

Even if it means the Republicans are able to cause another Great Depression in the short term because Biden doesn’t have enough support within his base to win, I still see more value in voting for Trump as a way to cripple the establishment Dems than I do electing another centrist hack like Biden who wouldn’t bring about any meaningful change.
Right, if Bernie progressives don't get their way immediately they'd rather have Trump again.

That's what I said.

They can pout if that's what they want. It's a free country.

[TheGreatYacht]

Ignoring how blown out of proportion the “Sanders supporters stayed home and ruined it for Hillary!” narrative is, the attitude that Sanders supporters owe their vote to whoever wins regardless of that candidates’ views or track record is what’s wrong with the Democratic Party. If someone beats Bernie and that person wants votes from Bernie supporters, he should give them a reason to show up and vote other than “I’m the Democrat and the other guy is a Republican”.

The mainstream Democrats who value beating Trump over everything else need to recognize that a lot progressives no longer see the point of aiding a two party system where both parties support things like private healthcare, increased fossil fuel usage and deregulating Wall Street.

Even if it means the Republicans are able to cause another Great Depression in the short term because Biden doesn’t have enough support within his base to win, I still see more value in voting for Trump as a way to cripple the establishment Dems than I do electing another centrist hack like Biden who wouldn’t bring about any meaningful change.

I like your thought. On a personal level I would much rather lose to Donald Trump than win with another establishment shill like Kamala Harris or Beto. I'm not gonna waste my time and gas to go to a long ass line and vote for a corporate shill that will give us someone worse that Trump down the line, the next Stalin or Hitler.

Btw I question everything we are told about Hitler and Stalin but you get my point.

[Will Hunting]

Right, if Bernie progressives don't get their way immediately they'd rather have Trump again.

That's what I said.

They can pout if that's what they want. It's a free country.
You said Bernie supporters need to stop pouting which is what I was mostly commenting on. Now you’re saying they can pout if they want.

Glad were in agreement but that’s not what you said.

[Spurtacular]

You said Bernie supporters need to stop pouting which is what I was mostly commenting on. Now you’re saying they can pout if they want.

Glad were in agreement but that’s not what you said.

Pscychopav taking both positions.... Par.

[Spurtacular]

Right, if Bernie progressives don't get their way immediately they'd rather have Trump again.



So, what's the lesson learned here for hardcore Democrats like you?

[Will Hunting]

FTR, if it’s an honest primary process where the candidates are all given a level playing field, there isn’t stuff done behind the scenes to prop up the establishment favorites and there aren’t any controls in place to stop a less mainstream candidate like Sanders from winning and the voters were really the ones deciding the race, then I’d probably vote for whoever wins the primary in the general unless it’s Biden.

Unfortunately, this is already shaping up to be another controlled primary with bullshit stunts like an “LGBT focused” debate, so I’m not optimistic.

[Pavlov]

You said Bernie supporters need to stop pouting which is what I was mostly commenting on. Now you’re saying they can pout if they want.

Glad were in agreement but that’s not what you said.They should stop pouting.

But pout away.

It won't make anything better now or later.

[Will Hunting]

They should stop pouting.

But pout away.

It won't make anything better now or later.
So why should they stop pouting?

[Pavlov]

So why should they stop pouting?Because historically the closest things to revolutionary change we've had in this country wouldn't have happened without establishment politicians.

[Spurminator]

I still see more value in voting for Trump as a way to cripple the establishment Dems than I do electing another centrist hack like Biden who wouldn’t bring about any meaningful change.

Why would this cripple establishment Dems?

[a777pilot]

"Biden’s huge task is to hide his phoniness."

LOL!

Could not have said it better.

[Will Hunting]

Why would this cripple establishment Dems?
Same reason Hillary losing to Trump loosened the establishment’s grip on the party. Trump beating Biden contradicts the entire establishment thesis that candidates like Sanders and Warren are “unelectable” and thus voters should support center-right corporatists like Hillary and Biden because they can win “the center” which is supposedly the key to winning elections (even though after 2016 Republicans managed to control the White House, both houses of Congress, and SCOTUS, not to mention how much more control they have at the local level in most states, all by having far right demagogue at the top of the ticket who couldn’t have given a fuck about winning the center).

[TimDunkem]

Biden is shooting yourself in the foot. Put him up for nomination and this already fragile Democratic coalition crumbles. Young people don't want him, progressives don't want him, and more and more women are jumping ship everyday.

It's going to be Hillary all over again if the Dems put this loser up.

[Will Hunting]

Because historically the closest things to revolutionary change we've had in this country wouldn't have happened without establishment politicians.
Which specific events are you referring to?

[Pavlov]

Which specific events are you referring to?Civil rights legislation comes to mind first. LBJ was as establishment as it gets and pretty corrupt personally, but the results speak for themselves.

I just don't see the Bernie revolution's ever playing out by voting for Trump again.

[Spurminator]

Same reason Hillary losing to Trump loosened the establishment’s grip on the party. Trump beating Biden contradicts the entire establishment thesis that candidates like Sanders and Warren are “unelectable” and thus voters should support center-right corporatists like Hillary and Biden because they can win “the center” which is supposedly the key to winning elections (even though after 2016 Republicans managed to control the White House, both houses of Congress, and SCOTUS, not to mention how much more control they have at the local level in most states, all by having far right demagogue at the top of the ticket who couldn’t have given a fuck about winning the center).

Biden winning the nomination would seem to be a move even further to the center than Hillary was, at least in the public's eye, so it would be hard for me to agree that Hillary's loss loosened the establishment's grip if Biden was the very next nominee. I don't think a Biden loss does it either. He's obviously going to be painted as a far-left socialist radical by conservatives anyway.

When neither the establishment Dems nor the non-establishment Dems have any power to drive policy, the general public won't have any clue how to differentiate between them, and a second term of Donald Fucking Trump certainly won't help with that. So you have two wings of the party with no power and no way to prove their policies work - who wins in 2024? The side with more money, probably.

The next best thing to a non-establishment Dem President is an establishment Dem President who won't kneejerk oppose everything put forth by the Warrens and Sanders of the party and we can at least have a dialogue. More importantly, this country needs a commander in chief who understands his/her duties in the office, such as reading intelligence reports and not treating truth as an inconvenience. Opting for four more years of Trump as some kind of strategic chess move to sway the Democratic Party further to the left in four years (which has no guarantee of happening) makes no sense to me.

[Will Hunting]

Civil rights legislation comes to mind first. LBJ was as establishment as it gets and pretty corrupt personally, but the results speak for themselves.

I just don't see the Bernie revolution's ever playing out by voting for Trump again.
There’s nothing about being an establishment president that made LBJ uniquely qualified to pass civil rights legislation and I’m also not sure what you mean by saying the results speak for themselves. Black Americans are still significantly poorer than white Americans and they still deal with more subtle forms of discrimination such as voter suppression and mass incarceration. The overall prosperity of black America has largely regressed since the 1980s and neither party really gives a shit about addressing it. If the “progress” caused by the civil rights act is the best establishment candidates can do in terms of meaningful reform then it’s all the more reason to vote against them imo.

It’s also not like I’m saying that voting for Trump will lead to a Bernie revolution. I’m saying that if Trump beats another centrist like Biden or Kamala Harris then the faction of Democratic voters who give up on the “win the center” strategy goes up and becomes harder to ignore.

I also wouldn’t consider Trump over Biden if I thought it would lead to anything awful but as far as I can tell the only difference between Trump and Hillary that will be hard to fix is Supreme Court justices, everything else that Trump is done can be reversed and there isn’t anything Hillary was proposing that made me overly excited. The senate map in 2022 is also favorable for the Dems but the other issue with having centrist Dems in office is it routinely leads to midterm elections being bloodbaths due to shitty voter turnout.

[Will Hunting]

Biden winning the nomination would seem to be a move even further to the center than Hillary was, at least in the public's eye so it would be hard for me to agree that Hillary's loss loosened the establishment's grip if Biden was the very next nominee.
I guess I shouldn't have limited it to control. If the establishment maintained control but had to move its platform significantly to the left, that'd be an acceptable result in my book and that's already happened to a limited extent. Universal healthcare was considered an extreme view 10 years ago vs. now when all of the candidates are fighting with each other over who's most in favor of it.

Maybe I haven't made it clear but if it's a candidate like Kamala Harris who is definitely backed by the establishment but has a platform with progressives in mind, I'd vote for her over Trump. Biden seems completely out of touch with progressives and millennials which is why I'm refusing to support him.


I don't think a Biden loss does it either. He's obviously going to be painted as a far-left socialist radical by conservatives anyway.
Agreed, which is why bending over backwards to appease the center so Fox News can't call you a socialist is effectively pissing into the wind. There's no reasoning with the 30-35% of the country that thinks climate change is a myth and still believes in trickle down economics so how they paint the candidate shouldn't really matter.


When neither the establishment Dems nor the non-establishment Dems have any power to drive policy, the general public won't have any clue how to differentiate between them, and a second term of Donald Fucking Trump certainly won't help with that. So you have two wings of the party with no power and no way to prove their policies work - who wins in 2024? The side with more money, probably.
I agree it won't help that in the short term, but I don't see the scenario you're describing meaningfully different than the way things already are. The Democrats weren't able to drive significant reform in 2009 when they had a huge house majority and 59 senators, and Trump wasn't able to drive significant reform in 2017 when he had all 3 branches of government.


The next best thing to a non-establishment Dem President is an establishment Dem President who won't kneejerk oppose everything put forth by the Warrens and Sanders of the party and we can at least have a dialogue.
So not Joe Biden then. As you already alluded to, he's even more anti-progressive than Hillary. He's been nothing short of dismissive on stuff like universal healthcare.


More importantly, this country needs a commander in chief who understands his/her duties in the office, such as reading intelligence reports and not treating truth as an inconvenience.
Joe Biden doesn't strike me as an Obama/Bill Clinton type who reads intelligence reports and makes informed decisions. He's dumb as a bag of hammers and has basically been the court jester of the Democratic Party for decades who people like because he says goofy stuff.


Opting for four more years of Trump as some kind of strategic chess move to sway the Democratic Party further to the left in four years (which has no guarantee of happening) makes no sense to me.
The logic there is that this country has never given a progressive president the means to accomplish his agenda unless it's on the heels of a complete right wing clusterfuck (i.e., even though the New Deal was largely putting common sense programs in place that were long overdue, it only happened after 12 years of Republican presidents who championed deregulation ran the country into the ground).

[Pavlov]

There’s nothing about being an establishment president that made LBJ uniquely qualified to pass civil rights legislation and I’m also not sure what you mean by saying the results speak for themselves. Black Americans are still significantly poorer than white Americans and they still deal with more subtle forms of discrimination such as voter suppression and mass incarceration. The overall prosperity of black America has largely regressed since the 1980s and neither party really gives a shit about addressing it. If the “progress” caused by the civil rights act is the best establishment candidates can do in terms of meaningful reform then it’s all the more reason to vote against them imo.So blacks should have voted for Goldwater since LBJ didn't make their lives perfect.

[Spurtacular]

Joe Biden doesn't strike me as an Obama/Bill Clinton type who reads intelligence reports and makes informed decisions. He's dumb as a bag of hammers and has basically been the court jester of the Democratic Party for decades who people like because he says goofy stuff.


That tends to be my impression; but he came prepared to the 2012 VP debate. It was one of the few debates that a Democrat actually won and the media didn't have to merely pretend the Dem won. Not sure how much of that is Joe being good or Paul Ryan outing himself as a lightweight, though.

[Will Hunting]

That tends to be my impression; but he came prepared to the 2012 VP debate. It was one of the few debates that a Democrat actually won and the media didn't have to merely pretend the Dem won. Not sure how much of that is Joe being good or Paul Ryan outing himself as a lightweight, though.
He's good in debates because he's got a likeable personality and always throws out a few sharp one liners (i.e. the one liner that ended Giuliani's campaign in 2008). That being said, a condom filled with dogshit could have beat Ryan in a debate that year, I'll never understand why Romney picked him as his VP. Rand Paul was the obvious choice imo, it would have appeased the Ron Paul supporters who were fuming after the primary and Rand Paul would have been in a much better position to go after Benghazi as an example of American interventionism backfiring.

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/michaelbeatty3/status/1122952119009533952

[Pavlov]

Chris shitting on first responders now.

[Spurtacular]

He's good in debates because he's got a likeable personality and always throws out a few sharp one liners (i.e. the one liner that ended Giuliani's campaign in 2008). That being said, a condom filled with dogshit could have beat Ryan in a debate that year, I'll never understand why Romney picked him as his VP. Rand Paul was the obvious choice imo, it would have appeased the Ron Paul supporters who were fuming after the primary and Rand Paul would have been in a much better position to go after Benghazi as an example of American interventionism backfiring.

It was more than that. Biden had only one debate and he wanted be prepared for it. He caught Ryan with his pants down multiple times.

Mitt chose Ryan cos he was a good ole boy that he liked hanging out with on the campaign trail. If he was smarter about winning he would've picked Condi Rice as VP candidate and picked off all Obama's "history maker" voters.

[spurraider21]

Ah ok.

To be fair, I hear it from the left just as much. Bill Maher went from being someone who begged Warren to run against Hillary in 2016 to more or less crying about Bernie supporters being :cry unreasonable :cry on his show every week because the Dems need to focus on “winning the center”.

God knows MSNBC crams it down its viewers’ throat too, Joe Scarborough’s shtick these days is having Claire McCaskill on his show so she can provide viewers with her “expertise” on how she won the center in Missouri by not being a “crazy Democrat” when the actual reality is that she only won in 2006 because of a historically unpopular Republican President and again in 2012 only because her opponent made one of the most retarded comments about a rape/pregnancy in the history of abortion debates.
i think maher was referring to purists who decided to stay home and not vote instead of going out and voting against trump anyway

doesnt mean they shouldnt donate and primary for him. just means when it comes down to democrat you have reservations about vs donald trump, throwing a tantrum isn't helping anybody

[pgardn]

People act like the Trump victory was a given in hindsight.
It was not.

Put out a cadaver and its gonna get close to beating the most significant megalomaniac in presidential history.
Trump is extraordinarily vulnerable because, he is Trump. A lying, impulsive freak. Selfish, undisciplined, without a conscience, lacking any credibility.
Who would actually ever do business with a guy like this besides,
guys like him.

[Pavlov]

For a Republican incumbent with this economy, his current poll numbers suck ass.

[AaronY]

Should have put in blue for sarcasm since all I hear from the right is any Democrat milquetoast not on the left would easily beat him. Just like the last Democrat milquetoast centrist did.
Biden is a more charismatic speaker and more engaging than Clinton. People ignore how bad and uninspiring she was. Politicians have proven over and over again speaking ability and charisma matters more than policy even

[AaronY]

For a Republican incumbent with this economy, his current poll numbers suck ass.
The polls are fake news. the ones when he was dominating the Republican primaries and which he referred to 10x a rally speech are real though. should be some more real ones coming out when he goes up against bill held and then also jeff flake or whoever in the 2020 R primaries and leads 99 to 1

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123257358262657025
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123257965191008257
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123258693963874305
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123258695671009282
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123259764052582400
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123259765868699649
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123260237467791360
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123260418556944384
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123261932897746945
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123261934625751040
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123262631622651905
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123263363553943554
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123263365227384832
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123263932356022273
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123264219594543111
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123265045356478465
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123265047684370432
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123265459531415553
https://twitter.com/EpochTimes/status/1123265609846927360

[a777pilot]

Trump, not being a standard politician, just might do something really stupid and bring worth publicly all the crimes of the Obama Administration. Even though I think many need to be in prison, being to the public what Obama and his cohorts did and tried to do would bring down our form of government and our country.

Hopefully, Trump/Barr can find a quiet way to fix the problem.

[Pavlov]

Trump, not being a standard politician, just might do something really stupid and bring worth publicly all the crimes of the Obama Administration. Even though I think many need to be in prison, being to the public what Obama and his cohorts did and tried to do would bring down our form of government and our country.

Hopefully, Trump/Barr can find a quiet way to fix the problem.
What crimes are you talking about?

Make a list.

[a777pilot]

Well, I guess I can start with the use of the federal government, the DOJ, the FBI, the CIA, the DNI, the NSA, the Office of National Security, and others to spy on the other political party, especially Trump.

[Pavlov]

Well, I guess I can start with the use of the federal government, the DOJ, the FBI, the CIA, the DNI, the NSA, the Office of National Security, and others to spy on the other political party, especially Trump.You'll have to be specific about each charge you are claiming.

That's at least seven separate claims.

[boutons_deux]

For a Republican incumbent with this economy, his current poll numbers suck ass.


Only 12% say they benefited from the Repug tax cut scam

[boutons_deux]

52% solidly disapprove

[Chris]

@:47 seconds for Biden clip


https://twitter.com/DavidJHarrisJr/status/1123653266292629504

[rmt]

Only 12% say they benefited from the Repug tax cut scam

I posted the numbers - median income definitely benefitted. They might not THINK they benefitted because the tax tables were more accurate - not giving them a tax refund the next year but that's a good thing - why give Uncle Sam a free loan? It's a lack of understanding.

[TSA]

1123750935958904832

[ducks]

As Biden downplays China threat, Romney has a new warning


https://www.foxnews.com/politics/as-biden-downplays-china-threat-romney-has-a-new-warning

[ducks]

Can Joe Biden Apologize His Way To The Presidency?

https://www.dailywire.com/news/46624/can-joe-biden-apologize-his-way-presidency-ben-shapiro?%3Futm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=dwbrand

[CosmicCowboy]

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59345460_10216700477495804_1996277705141649408_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=2febd59b561f3e21dddb824d1007a0ef&oe=5D317ED4

[boutons_deux]

Roaming Charges: Biden in Plain Sight (https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/05/03/roaming-charges-biden-in-plain-sight/)

+ Joe Biden will never again be more popular than he was the day before he entered the presidential race.

despite decades of service in the legislative ranks of Wall Street, he cunningly wrapped himself in the union label.

+ If you don’t think Biden’s the perfect person to represent the Democratic Party, you haven’t paid much attention to what the Democratic Party has become over the last 25 years: interventionist, anti-regulation, pro-austerity, merciless on black crime and devoted to Israel.

+ For 40 years Biden’s been a consistent neoliberal on economics and an ultra-hawk on foreign policy.

+ When Joe Biden ran from president in ’88, he was asked about his stance on Vietnam. He explained that he just wasn’t the antiwar protesting type. “I’m not big on flak jackets and tie-dye shirts. And you know. That’s not me. I’m serious.”

+ Biden, who has always thought the people at the bottom were the problem: “I’m not Bernie Sanders.

I don’t think 500 billionaires are the reason why we’re in trouble. The folks at the top are not bad guys… wealthy Americans are just as patriotic as poor folks.”

+ Biden defending the proposed balanced budget amendment in a senate floor speech, January 1995:

“When I argued that we should freeze federal spending, I meant Social Security as well; I meant Medicare and Medicaid; I meant veterans’ benefits; I meant every single, solitary thing in the government.”

+ Apparently, putting garlic in your vagina (https://www.oprahmag.com/life/health/a27245254/garlic-vagina-yeast-infection-myth-dr-guntner/?fbclid=IwAR2-RvzcR0vI3ZousJtCJWHl0_YqGW1bqUlzVJWAZXYj3xLBY1PdIn kZGhg) will not cure a yeast infection. It may, however, protect you from unwanted groping at a Joe Biden event…

+ Where Smokin’ Joe Biden stands

on marijuana: “I still believe it’s a gateway drug. I’ve spent a lot of my life as chairman of the Judiciary Committee dealing with this. I think it would be a mistake to legalize.”

+ Joe Biden: “First of all, I actually like Dick Cheney, for real. I get on with him. I think he’s a decent man.”

+ Biden would be a more honorable politician if on an issue like abortion he would simply say as a Catholic he opposed it on moral grounds. Fine. That’s not what he does. He waffles and

tries to restrict abortions so that in a practical sense they become only available to the rich.

+ There will be one salutary effect of Biden becoming the Democrats’ nominee. It should obliterate the old sawhorse that no matter how odious the candidate we must hold our noses &

vote for him because the future of the Supreme Court hangs in the balance.

Clarence Thomas, John Roberts and Alito have their seats largely thanks to Biden,

who was one of the ranking members of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

People ask, how can older black voters (https://www.lmtonline.com/news/article/Sanders-gets-tough-reception-at-minority-women-s-13793574.php?fbclid=IwAR0aqE8mfjY4qSSQtU_EXyRBHi81 QMtYzyKeCwap2EgIYV1BM1iynf9J530) trust Biden more than Bernard Sanders? After all,

Biden authored the 1994 Crime Bill

and Sanders marched with (or in the proximity of) Martin Luther King.

He’s always been harsh on black “crime,”

as opposed to Sanders, who marched with King (and apparently learned nothing from the experience except how to exploit it in a campaign ad) and then voted for the Biden Crime Bill.


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1121353597772607488/1Q9T0J8o_bigger.png (https://twitter.com/JoeBiden)Joe Biden
(https://twitter.com/JoeBiden)✔@JoeBiden
(https://twitter.com/JoeBiden)
The violence in Venezuela today against peaceful protesters is criminal.

Maduro's regime is responsible for incredible suffering.

The U.S. must stand with the National Assembly & Guaidó in their efforts to restore democracy through legitimate, internationally monitored elections.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/05/03/roaming-charges-biden-in-plain-sight/

[boutons_deux]

Nancy got her man in Biden

Pelosi Warns Democrats Need to Be ‘Mainstream’ in 2020: Trump Might Not Respect Election Results

“If we win by four seats, by a thousand votes each, he’s not going to respect the election,” said Ms. Pelosi, recalling her thinking in the run-up to the 2018 elections.

“He would poison the public mind. He would challenge each of the races; he would say you can’t seat these people,” she added.

“We had to win. Imagine if we hadn’t won — oh, don’t even imagine. So, as we go forward, we have to have the same approach.”

she doesn’t “automatically trust the president to respect the results of any election short of an overwhelming defeat.”

her “coldblooded” plan for decisively ridding themselves of Mr. Trump:

Do not get dragged into a protracted impeachment bid that will ultimately get crushed in the Republican-controlled Senate, and

do not risk alienating the moderate voters who flocked to the party in 2018 by drifting too far to the left.

https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/pelosi-warns-democrats-need-to-be-mainstream-in-2020-trump-might-not-respect-election-results/ (https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/pelosi-warns-democrats-need-to-be-mainstream-in-2020-trump-might-not-respect-election-results/)

So, no impeachment, no Medicare-for-all, etc, etc.

Straight up neo-con, neo-liberalism, hands off BigFinance, BigCorp, the wealthy. Nancy's platform, bullshit words, only slightly to the left of Repugs.

iow, no fucking change, no progress, no problems solved by the Dems.

America is fucked and unfuckable. Both parties are corrupted by BigDonor.

[Will Hunting]

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59345460_10216700477495804_1996277705141649408_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=2febd59b561f3e21dddb824d1007a0ef&oe=5D317ED4
:lmao:lmao

[a777pilot]

:lmao:lmao


Now that's funny!

[ElNono]

He's good in debates because he's got a likeable personality and always throws out a few sharp one liners (i.e. the one liner that ended Giuliani's campaign in 2008). That being said, a condom filled with dogshit could have beat Ryan in a debate that year, I'll never understand why Romney picked him as his VP. Rand Paul was the obvious choice imo, it would have appeased the Ron Paul supporters who were fuming after the primary and Rand Paul would have been in a much better position to go after Benghazi as an example of American interventionism backfiring.

Plus Rand Paul would’ve never made ‘Privatize Medicare’ a topic in the campaign :lol

Not that Rand wouldn’t agree, but that’s a top 5 most stupid political move I remember, tbh

[ElNono]

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59345460_10216700477495804_1996277705141649408_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=2febd59b561f3e21dddb824d1007a0ef&oe=5D317ED4

lmao

[a777pilot]

Ukraine will bring down the grabber.

[Chris]

That clip of dirty old Joe tweeking that 10 year olds nip is unbelievable



https://twitter.com/DewsNewz/status/1121904113086808065

[Reck]

Can Joe Biden Apologize His Way To The Presidency?

https://www.dailywire.com/news/46624/can-joe-biden-apologize-his-way-presidency-ben-shapiro?%3Futm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=dwbrand

Why not? Trump grabbed his way into it, if you know what I mean.

[Chris]

ORANGE MAN BAD

[ducks]

Why not? Trump grabbed his way into it, if you know what I mean.

What has he accomplished in over his 42 years off public office
Just name 2 things

[TheGreatYacht]

Joe Biden: I really like Dick Cheney!

https://youtu.be/4LQqZAaXIGQ

[CosmicCowboy]

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/59649798_10156070635406700_6315634002996756480_o.j pg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=049bb269f24fcb908de58270177e4ef8&oe=5D7335C2

[Phenomanul]

https://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g138/hegamboa/BidenCompilation.jpg (https://s55.photobucket.com/user/hegamboa/media/BidenCompilation.jpg.html)

[boutons_deux]

Jill Biden Says 'It's Time To Move On' From Anita Hill Controversy

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/07/720696969/jill-biden-says-it-s-time-to-move-on-from-anita-hill-controversy

of course, she would :lol she wants to be First Lady

[TheGreatYacht]

Joe Biden says "MAMA"

https://youtu.be/B1ukGmVFr4k

[Reck]

Jill Biden Says 'It's Time To Move On' From Anita Hill Controversy

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/07/720696969/jill-biden-says-it-s-time-to-move-on-from-anita-hill-controversy

of course, she would :lol she wants to be First Lady

Yeah we should spend the next 50 years talking about the Anita Hill hearings.

[Spurtacular]

Joe Biden says "MAMA"

https://youtu.be/B1ukGmVFr4k

They're trying hard.

[ducks]

Biden: We're Obligated To Give Health Care to Illegals

[boutons_deux]

Giuliani plans trip to Ukraine to dig up dirt on Biden before 2020 primaries begin


https://www.rawstory.com/2019/05/giuliani-plans-trip-to-ukraine-to-dig-up-dirt-on-biden-before-2020-primaries-begin-report/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29 (https://www.rawstory.com/2019/05/giuliani-plans-trip-to-ukraine-to-dig-up-dirt-on-biden-before-2020-primaries-begin-report/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29)

[Winehole23]

Biden: We're Obligated To Give Health Care to Illegalsseems logical to do so if we jail them first.

do US detainess deserve healthcare?

[ducks]

Yeah we should spend the next 50 years talking about the Anita Hill hearings.

We can move on just like now mueller report done move on
Both move on then no more talking about it!

[ducks]

seems logical to do so if we jail them first.

do US detainess deserve healthcare?
Why
They are not USA citizens
They are people but USA can not take of it own why add to it ?
Why take care of the world
USA first !

[ducks]

seems logical to do so if we jail them first.

do US detainess deserve healthcare?


Better to throw them out to their own shit hole country

[ducks]

So winehole what Should our taxes be to take care the world ?

[boutons_deux]

Politifact: Joe Biden's file


https://www.politifact.com/personalities/joe-biden/

[Winehole23]

So winehole what Should our taxes be to take care the world ?we're responsible for people we put in concentration camps, period.

[ducks]

THey know the price once they step on USA soil.
Do the crime pay the price

[ducks]

Georgia Democrat Stacey Abrams Says She Is Considering White House Run

[ducks]

Joe Biden once said a fence was needed to stop 'tons' of drugs from Mexico

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/05/10/politics/kfile-biden-drugs-fence-2006/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F

[koriwhat]

we're responsible for people we put in concentration camps, period.

lmao making a case for criminality... don't come here illegally and you won't be held in a bs "concentration camp". fuck them!

[koriwhat]

Georgia Democrat Stacey Abrams Says She Is Considering White House Run

:lmao at the fire dumpster that is the masses of dumbocrats running to be president of a country they all hate and want to burn down. that bitch is going to serve mcdonald's in the WH too but she's only serving herself and no sports teams.

[boutons_deux]

Julie Annie cancelled his trip, blaming the media

[Reck]

Julie Annie cancelled his trip, blaming the media

So you won't vote for uncle Biden if he gets the nomination, boots?

[CosmicCowboy]

Georgia Democrat Stacey Abrams Says She Is Considering White House Run

:lol might as well join the 1%er clown bus. This is getting to be pretty funny.

[CosmicCowboy]

Pretty soon they will have to extend the debates from two nights to three nights. With 12 scheduled debates that would be 36 nights. That would be excruciating to watch it all.

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/charliekirk11/status/1128309614636716033

[Spurminator]

"Biden was against gay marriage before he was okay with it. Therefore, you should vote for candidates who are still against gay marriage in 2019."

[Spurminator]

"Democrats only pretend to care about people. Vote for the guys who don't care about people and are open about it."

[Pavlov]

https://twitter.com/charliekirk11/status/1128309614636716033Are you for gay marriage, Chris?

[Nbadan]

Ukraine Prosecutor Made Up Biden Allegation, Kiev Lawmaker Says
Source: Bloomberg.com
May 13, 2019, 2:45 PM CDT

An alleged bid to curry favor with Trump and Giuliani
Prosecutor’s spokeswoman denies the letter came from him




A Ukrainian lawmaker accused his country’s top prosecutor of manufacturing a “conspiracy” about U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden, adding to a political intrigue playing out from Kiev to Washington.

The lawmaker, Serhiy Leshchenko, said he had been given parts of a letter written by the prosecutor with the intent of currying favor with the Trump administration. The letter was sent by the prosecutor through unofficial channels to President Donald Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, the lawmaker told journalists on Monday in Kiev as he distributed copies of two pages.


The letter, purportedly written by Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko, said that Biden, while U.S. vice president, personally received income from a Ukrainian natural gas company in exchange for “lobbying activities and political support.”

The lawmaker said those allegations were false.

As Leshchenko explained it, the prosecutor was trying to hold onto his job in a new administration. The incoming Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, campaigned on a vow to fight corruption and has said he would name a new prosecutor general.

“I can assume that Lutsenko’s plan is simple” -- that is, to build intrigue around Biden to show U.S. authorities that the prosecutor can be a useful partner, Leshchenko told reporters.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-13/ukraine-prosecutor-made-up-biden-allegation-kiev-lawmaker-says

[Nbadan]

https://cdn.creators.com/211/253876/253876_image.jpg

[ducks]

A flaw in California’s election process has allowed hundreds -- and possibly thousands -- of Californians to vote twice in each election beginning in 2016, election watchdogs warn.

The Mercury News reports the double-voting snafu was first discovered in June of 2016 just before the Democratic primary. But it appears nothing was done to fix it.

[DMC]

Pretty soon they will have to extend the debates from two nights to three nights. With 12 scheduled debates that would be 36 nights. That would be excruciating to watch it all.

CNN will be busy as fuck trying to ferry the questions to their favorite candidates.

[DMC]

"Biden was against gay marriage before he was okay with it. Therefore, you should vote for candidates who are still against gay marriage in 2019."


"Democrats only pretend to care about people. Vote for the guys who don't care about people and are open about it."

Vote for the person who tells you what you're getting up front, not the person who introduces it to you later, from the rear.

[Th'Pusher]

Vote for the person who tells you what you're getting up front, not the person who introduces it to you later, from the rear.

:lol you want to vote for Joe Biden

[DMC]

:lol you want to vote for Joe Biden

I know who Biden is.

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/gatewaypundit/status/1129520833439903748

[Winehole23]

Stop the presses!

Biden's son's GF allegedly does drugs!

[AaronY]

https://twitter.com/gatewaypundit/status/1129520833439903748

Omg! R.I.P. Biden 2020!

https://2488hughes.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/pour-one-out.jpg

[DMC]

Stop the presses!

Biden's son's GF allegedly does drugs!

Next you'll tell me GWB's daughter was an underage drinker or that Bill Clinton's brother was a crook.

[Will Hunting]

"Biden was against gay marriage before he was okay with it. Therefore, you should vote for candidates who are still against gay marriage in 2019."


"Democrats only pretend to care about people. Vote for the guys who don't care about people and are open about it."
“Democrats are in bed with special interest groups and lobbyists. Vote for the party that wants to stack SCOTUS with justices who will uphold Citizens United and make sure money keeps flowing into politics!”

[boutons_deux]

The Premise of Joe Biden’s Campaign Is That Every Left-Wing Criticism of the Democratic Party Since 2008 Has Been Wrong

“Folks, I know some of the really smart folks say Democrats don’t want to hear about unity. They say Democrats are so angry, that the angrier a candidate can be, the better chance he or she has to win the Democratic nomination. Well, I don’t believe it.”

Biden’s words were a shot at Democrats who think the party needs to more explicitly sell itself as a vehicle for aggressively confronting a range of people, institutions, and problems on behalf of marginalized and mistreated middle- and working-class Americans. His speech instead emphasized concepts like reconciliation and cooperation

Biden’s candidacy is, in one sense, a proposition that everything that’s been said by an unhappy progressive Democrat over the course of the past decade or so should be ignored.

“I know how to make government work,” he said on Saturday.

“Not because I’ve talked or tweeted about it, but because I’ve done it. I’ve worked across the aisle to reach consensus, :lol Where TF was Biden 2009-20016? :lol

He launched his campaign with a fundraiser at the home of a union-busting Comcast executive (https://twitter.com/BenMathisLilley/status/1126910606106402816) and is being advised by a former lobbyist for Shell, British Petroleum, Raytheon, and the “security” company formerly known as Blackwater (http://inthesetimes.com/article/21892/joe-biden-raytheon-caterpillar-stuart-eizenstat-advisor-weapons-oil).

Joe Biden’s campaign is about as perfect of a test case as possible for the left.

He’s doing everything that they say the Democratic Party should avoid.

And right now he’s leading the race by 20 points (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html)!

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/biden-campaign-democrats-left-criticism.html (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/05/biden-campaign-democrats-left-criticism.html)

and of course, as epitome of Dem corrupt establishment, the Dem corrupt establishment will support Biden 100% and kneecap all other candidates.

[AaronY]

1132708444308484102

[boutons_deux]

Joe Biden’s Whiteness Isn’t the Problem

Don't hate Biden because he’s a white guy. Hate his policies and his regressive voting record.

Despite his role

overseeing the Anita Hill hearings,

catalyzing mass incarceration, and

pushing for banking deregulation,

Joseph Biden, a white man, is still leading the Democratic primary.

Today, Joe Biden still leads the Democratic primary, in spite of his long history of undermining progressive causes.

Meanwhile, Elizabeth Warren is lagging, even though she’s been

advocating for popular policies such as

universal childcare,

student-loan-debt relief,

and reparations.

Don’t listen to the media hoopla;

white men are doing just fine.

The only “big hurdle” they face in the race is getting over themselves.

https://www.thenation.com/article/biden-white-male-identity-race/ (https://www.thenation.com/article/biden-white-male-identity-race/)

[Winehole23]

Pure coincidence, I'm sure

1135611638822985728

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1136019594118696960

[Winehole23]

Biden deserves it.

[Winehole23]

Deja vu

1135987471685246976

[boutons_deux]

‘Electable’ Joe Biden just gave his opponents the perfect gift

Hyde

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/06/electable-joe-biden-just-gave-his-opponents-the-perfect-gift/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=299 (https://www.rawstory.com/2019/06/electable-joe-biden-just-gave-his-opponents-the-perfect-gift/?utm_source=&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=299)

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1136656522568712192

[spurraider21]

whatever gets this guy off the ticket

[Will Hunting]

As hater already said, Biden's campaign is trying to limit his public appearances as much as possible because nothing good comes of it.

Warren is fighting the good fight in tearing Biden apart every chance she gets.

[Chris]

Glad consensus is Biden is a POS. Don't know what you yahoos see in Warren tbh

[Will Hunting]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/06/politics/biden-no-longer-supports-hyde-amendment/index.html

In just a few days, Joe Biden went from saying the Hyde Amendment can't stay, to going back to supporting it, to just now going back to saying he's against it :lmao

This guy is flip flopping all over the place.

[Will Hunting]

Glad consensus is Biden is a POS. Don't know what you yahoos see in Warren tbh
She's far from my first choice, all I was commenting on was how good she's been the last few weeks at decimating Biden.

[Spurminator]

:lol Why even defend your choice to Chris, as if he's going to see any Democrat candidate as anything besides a Soros-funded socialist.

[boutons_deux]

Joe Biden will no longer support the Hyde Amendment after massive backlash

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/06/joe-biden-will-no-longer-support-the-hyde-amendment-after-massive-backlash/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29 (https://www.rawstory.com/2019/06/joe-biden-will-no-longer-support-the-hyde-amendment-after-massive-backlash/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29)

[ducks]

Will he choke like Hilary Rodman Clinton

[boutons_deux]

When Joe Biden Collaborated With Segregationists

The candidate’s years as an anti-busing crusader cannot be forgotten—or readily forgiven.

take a good hard look at Joe Biden’s shameful record on school segregation.

Despite his recent effort to allay concerns about that record, it cannot be expunged or easily forgiven.

he said nothing to disown his long history as a fierce opponent of school busing and a scathing critic of the Supreme Court’s decision in Brown v. Board of Education.

“We’ve lost our bearings since the 1954 Brown v. School Board desegregation case,” Biden said in 1975,

in an interview that he gave to a newspaper in Delaware that was recently unearthed (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bidens-tough-talk-on-1970s-school-desegregation-plan-could-get-new-scrutiny-in-todays-democratic-party/2019/03/07/9115583e-3eb2-11e9-a0d3-1210e58a94cf_story.html?utm_term=.d91f49343470) by The Washington Post.

“To ‘desegregate’ is different than to ‘integrate.’”

“I do not buy the concept, popular in the ’60s, which said,

‘We have suppressed the black man for 300 years and…in order to even the score, we must now give the black man”

—no reference to black women—

“a head start or even hold the white man back.…

I don’t buy that.”

https://www.thenation.com/article/joe-biden-education-busing-opposition/ (https://www.thenation.com/article/joe-biden-education-busing-opposition/)

Joe should run as REPUG challenger to Trash.

[FrostKing]

Biden's first flip

Hyde Amendment

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status/1137209224646275072

[Pavlov]

https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status/1137209224646275072Trump was a Democrat for most of his career until Black President happened.

[ducks]

Yet you hate his guts

[Pavlov]

I've always thought he was a joke, no matter which party.

Now we have a joke as president.

Trump is a joke.

[Will Hunting]

https://twitter.com/RudyGiuliani/status/1137209224646275072
"There must be public funding for abortion for poor women. We cannot deny any woman the right to make her own decision about abortion because she lacks resources." - Rudy Giuliani in 1989

"No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing." - Rudy Giuliani in 1999 in response to whether or not he has or would support a ban on late term abortions

Braindead Joe ain't the only "moderate" who flip flops on abortion to fit whatever he's running for at the time.

[Chris]

Joe Biden says he “doesn’t have time” to lay out his healthcare plan.

[Pavlov]

Joe Biden says he “doesn’t have time” to lay out his healthcare plan.Neither does Trump, even though he's been president two years.

Go figure....

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/BreitbartNews/status/1137488998182674433

[Will Hunting]

Neither does Trump, even though he's been president two years.

Go figure....
Doesn't excuse Biden tbh, however it is pretty funny that a Trumptard is making fun of Biden when Trump has tripped over his own dick for 2.5 years on a healthcare plan.

Biden has no way to win on healthcare. If he says he's in favor of medicare for all then he loses the support he has as an "electable moderate", but if he says he's not in favor of it he's going to get reamed by the base and every other candidate.

[Pavlov]

Doesn't excuse Biden tbh, however it is pretty funny that a Trumptard is making fun of Biden when Trump has tripped over his own dick for 2.5 years on a healthcare plan.

Biden has no way to win on healthcare. If he says he's in favor of medicare for all then he loses the support he has as an "electable moderate", but if he says he's not in favor of it he's going to get reamed by the base and every other candidate.I guess, but it looks like dismissing Biden out of hand is the new dismissing Trump out of hand.

[Chris]

This thread is about Joe Biden.

[Pavlov]

This thread is about Joe Biden.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41gSEyYaTTL.jpg

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1137521124793823232

What a faggot :lol

[boutons_deux]

Fox News is laying the groundwork for conspiracy theories about Joe Biden's health (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/6/10/1863892/-Fox-News-is-laying-the-groundwork-for-conspiracy-theories-about-Joe-Biden-s-health)

Fox News spent 2016 pushing unfounded rumors that Hillary Clinton was hiding serious health problems, and it’s gearing up to do the same to former Vice President Joe Biden. Fox News hosts—Sean Hannity and Lisa “Kennedy” Montgomery in particular—have repeatedly speculated (https://www.thedailybeast.com/fox-news-stars-begin-pushing-rumors-about-joe-bidens-health?ref=scroll) about Biden’s health,

Biden “does look very tired,” Kennedy said last week.

“Joe Biden’s tired,” Hannity said the same night.

“He does not have the energy for this.

He’s not up for this challenge.

They’re already hiding him like they hid Hillary.

They don’t want him out there.”

(https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/6/10/1863892/-Fox-News-is-laying-the-groundwork-for-conspiracy-theories-about-Joe-Biden-s-health)https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/6/10/1863892/-Fox-News-is-laying-the-groundwork-for-conspiracy-theories-about-Joe-Biden-s-health

[Chris]

https://twitter.com/ChuckCallesto/status/1138285926394843136

[boutons_deux]

What? :lol

Joe Biden: Republicans ‘Know Better,’ Will Change After Trump

“With Trump gone you’re going to begin to see things change.

Because these folks know better. :lol

They know this isn’t what they’re supposed to be doing.” :lol

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-republicans-trump-2020_n_5cff47b6e4b06d839dc4150e?ncid=newsltushpmgn ews__TheMorningEmail__061119&guccounter=1

Biden is so out of touch. The Repugs are 100% behind Trash, and will not "reform" when Trash is gone. Repugs will only get worse and worse, more extreme, continuing to enfeeble, preferably destroy the "administrative state" so the oligarchy can continue rampaging and pillaging America and the planet.

Trash is a symptom, not the cause of Repug degradation in service of the oligarchy.

[Will Hunting]

Biden’s concerted effort to avoid events where all of the other candidates are making appearances is getting more and more ridiculous. Progressives hate him even more than they didn’t like Hillary.

If he manages to win the primary by not making public appearances and spending most of his time meeting with contributors he’s going to get trounced by Trump in the general.

[Pavlov]

Biden’s concerted effort to avoid events where all of the other candidates are making appearances is getting more and more ridiculous. Progressives hate him even more than they didn’t like Hillary.

If he manages to win the primary by not making public appearances and spending most of his time meeting with contributors he’s going to get trounced by Trump in the general.Those progressives would rather have more Trump than Biden?

OK. That's their fault then.

[Will Hunting]

Those progressives would rather have more Trump than Biden?

OK. That's their fault then.
I think they don’t give enough of a shit to vote just because Biden is a little to the left of Trump.

[Pavlov]

I think they don’t give enough of a shit to vote just because Biden is a little to the left of Trump.OK, it's their fault then.

Thanks for letting me know whom to blame.

[Will Hunting]

OK, it's their fault then.

Thanks for letting me know whom to blame.
You have me confused with someone who gives a shit about who you blame.

[Pavlov]

You have me confused with someone who gives a shit about who you blame.No problem. I just wanted to thank you for letting me know who will be directly responsible for Trump's second term.

"Progressives."

[Will Hunting]

No problem. I just wanted to thank you for letting me know who will be directly responsible for Trump's second term.

"Progressives."
Your welcome then, all I would change is “directly” to “indirectly”. The people “directly” responsible would be the people voting for Trump.

Other than that, be my guest as to who you blame.

[Pavlov]

Your welcome then, all I would change is “directly” to “indirectly”. The people “directly” responsible would be the people voting for Trump.

Other than that, be my guest as to who you blame.Great.

"Progressives" are to blame.

[Will Hunting]

Great.

"Progressives" are to blame.
I think you've gotten to used to arguing with Derp the way you expect this to result in me going off on a tirade :lol

[Pavlov]

I think you've gotten to used to arguing with Derp the way you expect this to result in me going off on a tirade :lolI'm not expecting a tirade from you or anything else really.

"Progressives" will be to blame and that's cool to know.

[Will Hunting]

I'm not expecting a tirade from you or anything else really.

"Progressives" will be to blame and that's cool to know.
So you just feel like letting me know "Progressives" are to blame just for the sake of it? That seems pretty pointless :lol

[Pavlov]

So you just feel like letting me know "Progressives" are to blame just for the sake of it? That seems pretty pointless :lolNo, you let me know that and I thanked you.

[Spurminator]

It would be absolutely insane not to vote for Biden if he's the nominee just because he doesn't meet a progressive litmus.

If he's President, he nominates judges and won't go by a list of pre-approved Heritage judges. His VP (who would likely be someone to his left) is the tie-breaking vote in the Senate, reducing McConnell's power to block all progressive legislation. He would re-reverse Obama orders that Trump has made a point to revoke.

And best of all, Donald Trump goes back to being a blowhard social media troll instead of being the President of the United States, and he takes his retarded family with him. Any concern about Biden's legislative history from 25-50 years ago is easily countered by the fact that Trump has, and will, do much worse if he remains in power.

I fully understand the desire to challenge Biden and make him work for the nomination, and I don't think liberals should avoid doing so. But to go Bernie-tard and skip voting just because he's not your preferred Dem nominee, after learning in 2016 that Donald Trump can win and what that means for the country, would be mind-bogglingly stupid.

[boutons_deux]

"If he's President, he nominates judges and won't go by a list of pre-approved Heritage judges"

any Biden nominess won't have a chance in the Repug Senate.

Most of Trash's judges comes from Catholic shitbag Leonard Leo's extreme right wing Federalist Society

[Pavlov]

A popular frontrunner that can be bullied further to the left with some angry tweets and pundit bitching?


Don't fuck this up, "progressives."


lol who am I kidding? They'll fuck it up.

[boutons_deux]

A popular frontrunner that can be bullied further to the left with some angry tweets and pundit bitching?


Don't fuck this up, "progressives."


lol who am I kidding? They'll fuck it up.

"Democrat" can be translated to "fuck it up"

[Will Hunting]

It would be absolutely insane not to vote for Biden if he's the nominee just because he doesn't meet a progressive litmus.

If he's President, he nominates judges and won't go by a list of pre-approved Heritage judges. His VP (who would likely be someone to his left) is the tie-breaking vote in the Senate, reducing McConnell's power to block all progressive legislation. He would re-reverse Obama orders that Trump has made a point to revoke.

And best of all, Donald Trump goes back to being a blowhard social media troll instead of being the President of the United States, and he takes his retarded family with him. Any concern about Biden's legislative history from 25-50 years ago is easily countered by the fact that Trump has, and will, do much worse if he remains in power.

I fully understand the desire to challenge Biden and make him work for the nomination, and I don't think liberals should avoid doing so. But to go Bernie-tard and skip voting just because he's not your preferred Dem nominee, after learning in 2016 that Donald Trump can win and what that means for the country, would be mind-bogglingly stupid.
Biden would block or at least weaken progressive legislation even if McConnell wasn't able to, no different than how Obama took the public option healthcare plan that got through the house, chopped it up to make it Romneycare.

I'm also not convinced his VP would be to his left. As centrist as Hillary was, she managed to find a VP candidate even more centrist and less appealing to progressives than she was, and I don't see why Biden would be any different. As bad as Hillary was at appealing to progressives, she actually made an effort (albeit a superficial one). Biden has done everything he can to avoid major events and seems completely disinterested in addressing concerns progressives have about him (i.e. refusing to put forth a specific healthcare plan).

It also baffles me why the Bidens/Hillarys of the world don't receive one iota of blame for the fact they can't inspire enough turnout in a general election, especially when the opposing candidate is Donald fucking Trump. Losing voters from your own party in the general election because they're butthurt over their primary candidate not winning is something presidential candidates have always had to face. Obama beat McCain in spite of the fact 25% of Hillary's primary voters in 2008 not only didn't vote for Obama but voted for McCain, a much larger number than the ~12% of Bernie voters who either stayed at home or voted for Trump in 2016 that Hillary supporters still won't stop bitching about.

[Spurminator]

"If he's President, he nominates judges and won't go by a list of pre-approved Heritage judges"

any Biden nominess won't have a chance in the Repug Senate.


That's a worst case scenario I'm not convinced of, but still, better that than Trump nominees getting automatic approval.

[Spurminator]

Biden would block or at least weaken progressive legislation even if McConnell wasn't able to, no different than how Obama took the public option healthcare plan that got through the house, chopped it up to make it Romneycare.

Unless I'm misremembering, Obama's hand was forced on the public option. It wasn't going to pass. The resulting legislation was still much better than the status quo, and better than what we would have gotten from a Republican President.


I'm also not convinced his VP would be to his left. As centrist as Hillary was, she managed to find a VP candidate even more centrist and less appealing to progressives than she was, and I don't see why Biden would be any different.

This is another situation where the perceived far-leftness of Hillary played a role. I know you disagree about that perception, but I believe it was a strategic (and obviously incorrect) move to persuade conservative voters that a Clinton administration might not be the socialist nightmare that they believed it would be. Unfortunately Hillary was such a toxic candidate to conservatives that it really didn't matter who her VP choice was, and Kaine did nothing to inspire progressives. I don't think they'll try that approach again in 2020.


As bad as Hillary was at appealing to progressives, she actually made an effort (albeit a superficial one). Biden has done everything he can to avoid major events and seems completely disinterested in addressing concerns progressives have about him (i.e. refusing to put forth a specific healthcare plan)

It also baffles me why the Bidens/Hillarys of the world don't receive one iota of blame for the fact they can't inspire enough turnout in a general election, especially when the opposing candidate is Donald fucking Trump. Losing voters from your own party in the general election because they're butthurt over their primary candidate not winning is something presidential candidates have always had to face. Obama beat McCain in spite of the fact 25% of Hillary's primary voters in 2008 not only didn't vote for Obama but voted for McCain, a much larger number than the ~12% of Bernie voters who either stayed at home or voted for Trump in 2016 that Hillary supporters still won't stop bitching about.

I don't put a lot of stock in primary vs. general votes. Anyone can vote in a primary regardless of where their actual loyalties lie. The Democrat race was much more hotly contested than the Republican one, and Hillary was much closer to McCain in ideology than Bernie/Trump or Biden/Trump. I can sort of justify Hillary voters switching to McCain. I can't justify Bernie voters pulling the lever for Trump in 2016, and it's even harder to make that case in 2020.

And I think they do receive blame. Hillary is largely ignored by liberals now, and her approval rating is terrible - 36%, worse than it was in 2016... and while Biden may be leading with a plurality in the polls he is, by far, getting the most criticism of any candidate from the left. It seems like Biden is trying to avoid putting a target on his back while it's still early in the primary cycle. Hopefully we start to hear more specifics from him soon.

All of these criticisms are fair but they still wouldn't justify a Trump vote or non-vote in 2020.

[Pavlov]

Biden would block or at least weaken progressive legislation even if McConnell wasn't able to, no different than how Obama took the public option healthcare plan that got through the house, chopped it up to make it Romneycare.

I'm also not convinced his VP would be to his left. As centrist as Hillary was, she managed to find a VP candidate even more centrist and less appealing to progressives than she was, and I don't see why Biden would be any different. As bad as Hillary was at appealing to progressives, she actually made an effort (albeit a superficial one). Biden has done everything he can to avoid major events and seems completely disinterested in addressing concerns progressives have about him (i.e. refusing to put forth a specific healthcare plan).

It also baffles me why the Bidens/Hillarys of the world don't receive one iota of blame for the fact they can't inspire enough turnout in a general election, especially when the opposing candidate is Donald fucking Trump. Losing voters from your own party in the general election because they're butthurt over their primary candidate not winning is something presidential candidates have always had to face. Obama beat McCain in spite of the fact 25% of Hillary's primary voters in 2008 not only didn't vote for Obama but voted for McCain, a much larger number than the ~12% of Bernie voters who either stayed at home or voted for Trump in 2016 that Hillary supporters still won't stop bitching about.Since Obama, you know, didn't lose and Trump won by ~100,000 votes in a few states in 2016 -- why wouldn't the failure of Bernie bros' be highlighted?

[Pavlov]

I'd also like to know how Obama personally scuttled the public option or whatever during the writing of the ACA.

[Will Hunting]

Since Obama, you know, didn't lose and Trump won by ~100,000 votes in a few states in 2016 -- why wouldn't the failure of Bernie bros' be highlighted?
Because Obama was able to win despite what you would call the "failure" of 25% of Clinton's primary voters.

It was Hillary's failure to get their voters. You keep acting like the Bernie Bros had some inherent duty to vote for Clinton.

[Spurminator]

Bernie did endorse her and campaign for her after she made certain concessions.

No duty, but I'm not sure why the Bros would side with Trump over their preferred candidate except for butthurt.

[Pavlov]

Because Obama was able to win despite what you would call the "failure" of 25% of Clinton's primary voters.

It was Hillary's failure to get their voters. You keep acting like the Bernie Bros had some inherent duty to vote for Clinton.They don't have a duty to vote for Clinton. They preferred Trump.

Good for them.


It's been great for them, hasn't it?

[Will Hunting]

Unless I'm misremembering, Obama's hand was forced on the public option. It wasn't going to pass. The resulting legislation was still much better than the status quo, and better than what we would have gotten from a Republican President.
It passed in the house and it got killed by Obama/Reid before passing in the senate. Would it have died anyway? Maybe. Did Obama make much of an effort to keep the public option in? Not really. He seemed perfectly content letting McConnell bully the Democrats, despite having ways around the filibuster.


This is another situation where the perceived far-leftness of Hillary played a role. I know you disagree about that perception, but I believe it was a strategic (and obviously incorrect) move to persuade conservative voters that a Clinton administration might not be the socialist nightmare that they believed it would be. Unfortunately Hillary was such a toxic candidate to conservatives that it really didn't matter who her VP choice was, and Kaine did nothing to inspire progressives. I don't think they'll try that approach again in 2020.
So we're in agreement that trying to flip conservative voters instead of inspire progressives is a shitty strategy. Great, just not sure what you're arguing with me about then.

If you're saying you think Biden can flip the same conservative voters who thought Hillary would be a socialist nightmare, that's delusional.


I don't put a lot of stock in primary vs. general votes. Anyone can vote in a primary regardless of where their actual loyalties lie. The Democrat race was much more hotly contested than the Republican one, and Hillary was much closer to McCain in ideology than Bernie/Trump or Biden/Trump.
Agreed, and we also don't know where the true political allegiance of the Bernie Bros who didn't vote for Clinton was. There's polling that suggests a lot of them were conservatives (Nathan89 types). Either way, losing only 12% of your primary opponent's voters in the general is actually a low number. The Bernie Bros supported Hillary in the general at a better rate than what's typically seen.


I can sort of justify Hillary voters switching to McCain. I can't justify Bernie voters pulling the lever for Trump in 2016, and it's even harder to make that case in 2020.
I'd argue it's an easier case this time. I voted for Hillary in 2016 after voting for Bernie in the primary but I'm not going to automatically do it again. The establishment Democrats had their shot in 2016 and couldn't even win despite more or less rigging the primary process for their preferred candidate, it's time they step aside and stop exerting so much control over who gets nominated. If Biden wins a fair and square primary then I'd vote for him over Trump but if the primary process turns into another mangled abortion coat hanger via superdelegates who ignore voters in their state and/or the DNC interfering to help their preferred candidate I'll either stay home or even vote for Trump.

The 2018 midterms are also plenty of justification imo. The 2022 midterm senate map is potentially very favorable for the Democrats, but Biden will inspire the same shitty midterm turnout that other moderate Democratic presidents have and it will lead to the Dems losing seats in both houses (one thing no one realizes is how bad the 2018 midterms would have been with Hillary as president. The Republicans could have easily reached a supermajority in the Senate with all of the races in states like Wisconsin and Ohio the Democrats managed to skate by on).


And I think they do receive blame. Hillary is largely ignored by liberals now, and her approval rating is terrible - 36%, worse than it was in 2016... and while Biden may be leading with a plurality in the polls he is, by far, getting the most criticism of any candidate from the left. It seems like Biden is trying to avoid putting a target on his back while it's still early in the primary cycle. Hopefully we start to hear more specifics from him soon.
I'm not talking about blame they receive from the far left, I'm talking about blame they receive from the mainstream. CNN/MSNBC have spent a lot more time blaming Bernie Bros than they spent blaming Hillary for inspiring such shitty voter turnout.

You also just explained why so many people hate Biden. He doesn't want to be specific about what his views/plans are because he wants to avoid putting a target on his back. He's more concerned with playing politics than he is with being transparent with voters. Why does anyone think that's someone who'd make a good president?

[Will Hunting]

Bernie did endorse her and campaign for her after she made certain concessions.

No duty, but I'm not sure why the Bros would side with Trump over their preferred candidate except for butthurt.
88% of them did support Clinton which is a higher number than what's typically seen, the idea that Bernie Bros didn't support Clinton is a narrative that's not backed up by the numbers. Getting 88% support from your primary opponent's voters in the general election is better than what most candidates typically get.

[Spurminator]

So we're in agreement that trying to flip conservative voters instead of inspire progressives is a shitty strategy. Great, just not sure what you're arguing with me about then.

If you're saying you think Biden can flip the same conservative voters who thought Hillary would be a socialist nightmare, that's delusional.

I don't think my argument has ever been that the strategy should be to flip conservative voters. My argument has been that progressives who wouldn't vote for Biden over Trump because they're not "inspired" are selfish, privileged assholes.


The 2018 midterms are also plenty of justification imo. The 2022 midterm senate map is potentially very favorable for the Democrats, but Biden will inspire the same shitty midterm turnout that other moderate Democratic presidents have and it will lead to the Dems losing seats in both houses (one thing no one realizes is how bad the 2018 midterms would have been with Hillary as president. The Republicans could have easily reached a supermajority in the Senate with all of the races in states like Wisconsin and Ohio the Democrats managed to skate by on).

I agree about 2018, but I don't know if Hillary being a "moderate" Democrat President is what would have caused that. A widely disliked Democrat, maybe.

Are there any examples of a non-moderate Democrat President in recent history who was successful in the midterms following his election? I would think an unpopular or polarizing Democrat would usually be worse for midterms than a moderate one, especially when most of the seats up for grabs would be help (or challenged) by moderate Democrats.

What would help matters is that in 2022, Biden would (hopefully) have a better economy than Obama had in 2010. Assuming the current POTUS doesn't find a way to fuck that up by imposing tariffs or threatening nuclear war with Mexico on Twitter.


You also just explained why so many people hate Biden. He doesn't want to be specific about what his views/plans are because he wants to avoid putting a target on his back. He's more concerned with playing politics than he is with being transparent with voters. Why does anyone think that's someone who'd make a good president?

I wouldn't try to defend Biden or his approach, besides just knowing he's good enough to get my vote over Trump if it comes to that.

[Spurminator]

88% of them did support Clinton which is a higher number than what's typically seen, the idea that Bernie Bros didn't support Clinton is a narrative that's not backed up by the numbers. Getting 88% support from your primary opponent's voters in the general election is better than what most candidates typically get.

Then I guess I would be hesitant to call that a failure on Clinton's part. She got an unprecedented amount of support from those who had voted for her opponent, even after a contentious primary that favored her.

[AaronY]

It would be absolutely insane not to vote for Biden if he's the nominee just because he doesn't meet a progressive litmus.


Exactly. The premise among many far left retards was that if the progressives stayed home in 2016 and we lost the general people would have no choice but to vote for Bernie in 2020 and its beginning to seem like that was like many Bernie Bro theories quite retarded.

[Will Hunting]

I don't think my argument has ever been that the strategy should be to flip conservative voters. My argument has been that progressives who wouldn't vote for Biden over Trump because they're not "inspired" are selfish, privileged assholes.
At least speaking for myself, me not voting for Biden isn't because I'm not "inspired" by him, it's because I'm sick of how the Democratic party has stacked the deck against progressive candidates who actually want common sense legislation like Medicare-for-all in the name of "electability". People might disagree over whether or not it's good politics but it's bad public policy and it's definitely not Democracy.


I agree about 2018, but I don't know if Hillary being a "moderate" Democrat President is what would have caused that. A widely disliked Democrat, maybe.
Obama had the midterm problem too and I wouldn't characterize him as "widely disliked".


Are there any examples of a non-moderate Democrat President in recent history who was successful in the midterms following his election?
There haven't been examples of any non-moderate Democrat Presidents in recent history, period. Oddly enough, the Democrats' inability to keep control of congress in midterm elections when they're in power began in the 90s, the same time as when Democrats started nominating corporatists for president because of their "electability". The last Democratic president who picked up seats in either house during the midterms following his presidency was JFK.


I would think an unpopular or polarizing Democrat would usually be worse for midterms than a moderate one, especially when most of the seats up for grabs would be help (or challenged) by moderate Democrats.
Goes back to the fact we've already discussed that Republicans are going to view any Democrat president as unpopular/polarizing no matter what, all but assuring their turnout during midterms when a Democrat is in office. The only way the Democrats match that turnout during midterms is with a president who excites the base. Millennials simply don't show up as reliably as rural white trash voters do.


What would help matters is that in 2022, Biden would (hopefully) have a better economy than Obama had in 2010. Assuming the current POTUS doesn't find a way to fuck that up by imposing tariffs or threatening nuclear war with Mexico on Twitter.
The 2010 midterms were exacerbated by the bad economy but the bigger problem was shitty Democrat turnout while Republicans turned out because they viewed Obama as the antichrist (literally in certain circumstances). Less than 20% of all eligible millennials voted in 2010 and 2014 IIRC. 1994, 1998 and 2014 were all shitty for Democrats regardless of economy.

[Will Hunting]

Exactly. The premise among many far left retards was that if the progressives stayed home in 2016 and we lost the general people would have no choice but to vote for Bernie in 2020 and its beginning to seem like that was like many Bernie Bro theories quite retarded.
Almost as retarded as thinking that an "electable centrist" is the best shot at beating Trump after an "electable centrist" lost to him in 2016.

[Chris]

Biden on May 1: "China is going to eat our lunch? Come on, man...They’re not competition for us."

Biden today: "We are in a competition with China.
We need to get tough with China. They are a serious challenge to us, and in some areas a real threat."

[ducks]

Promises to cure cancer if President

[Reck]

Biden on May 1: "China is going to eat our lunch? Come on, man...They’re not competition for us."

Biden today: "We are in a competition with China.
We need to get tough with China. They are a serious challenge to us, and in some areas a real threat."

As a trumpster you really have no room to talk. :lol

Where the wall at?

[Chris]

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgflip.com%2F2kmqeu.jpg&f=1

[boutons_deux]

Almost as retarded as thinking that an "electable centrist" is the best shot at beating Trump after an "electable centrist" lost to him in 2016.

Hillary Biden DNC are center right republicans of some decades ago

[Reck]

Chris doesn't have a good rebuttal so let's go with the one thing that got him banned for bot like behavior.

How many times did you fail 1st grade, Chris? :lol

[boutons_deux]

Trash's crazy Biden shit in Iowa caused Fox to to turn him off :)

[AaronY]

Almost as retarded as thinking that an "electable centrist" is the best shot at beating Trump after an "electable centrist" lost to him in 2016.
Still not as retarded as thinking a leftist who cant even win a primary among a group of people who are literally registered leftists will do better.

[Will Hunting]

Still not as retarded as thinking a leftist who cant even win a primary among a group of people who are literally registered leftists will do better.
:lol he got over 40% of the vote despite having no name recognition going into it and having the DNC doing everything it could to throw the election in Clinton's favor. The fact Clinton turned a 60% lead in the polls into a contested primary should have been a red flag in and of itself.

Biden is already on his way into letting a huge lead evaporate because he's too scared to tell voters what his actual views are so he's making as little appearances as he can.

[Chris]

:cryplease respond to my Trump *ding:cry

[spurraider21]

Still not as retarded as thinking a leftist who cant even win a primary among a group of people who are literally registered leftists will do better.
this is all assuming the premise that you win by attracting centrists... in a country like ours with shitty voter participation (only 58% of eligible citizens voted), there are untapped votes in your own base that can just be "energized" to go out and vote.

if voter participation was closer to 80%, then it stops being viable to try harder and harder to extract more votes out of your base, and appealing to "win over" centrists becomes a legitimate strategy

[Reck]

If the dude gets the nomination I hope he doesn't try to win over republicans like that dumbass Hillary tried doing.

:lol Spent the last 3 months of campaign begging republicans to vote for her for absolutely nothing.

[Chris]

Good enough for your vote.

:lol

[Winehole23]

polls this far out amount to spitting in the wind, but the difference according to rough age cohorts is striking:

1138506519933345792

[Nbadan]

Iowa and New Hampshire are going to be important. You could see many candidate drop out after namely, Booker and/or Harris. New Hampshire will be Bernie versus Warren. Other candidate won;t make it that far. Debates in 2 weeks will play big

Side note, the winner in Iowa disproportionately wins the eventual nomination

[Will Hunting]

polls this far out amount to spitting in the wind, but the difference according to rough age cohorts is striking:

1138506519933345792
IMO Sanders and Warren are hurting each other's chances too much and one needs to get out of race early on.

[Winehole23]

IMO Sanders and Warren are hurting each other's chances too much and one needs to get out of race early on.fat chance. another wrinkle pointed out in the tweet thread is that Sanders is the second choice of about 30% of Biden supporters and vice versa. maybe one of the two 70 year old men needs to get out of the way, but that ain't gonna happen voluntarily either.

[Will Hunting]

this is all assuming the premise that you win by attracting centrists... in a country like ours with shitty voter participation (only 58% of eligible citizens voted), there are untapped votes in your own base that can just be "energized" to go out and vote.

if voter participation was closer to 80%, then it stops being viable to try harder and harder to extract more votes out of your base, and appealing to "win over" centrists becomes a legitimate strategy
That 58% number also doesn't even do justice to the fact that only ~50% of millennials voted in 2016 vs. roughly 70% participation from boomers and older.

Just getting millennial participation up to 60% would be enough to make it virtually impossible for Trump to get reelected, but there's not a fucking chance a Delaware relic in his late 70s who openly talks shit about millennials is going to be the one who drives millennial turnout.

[Will Hunting]

fat chance. another wrinkle pointed out in the tweet thread is that Sanders is the second choice of about 30% of Biden supporters and vice versa. maybe one of the two 70 year old men needs to get out of the way, but that ain't gonna happen voluntarily either.
I'm inclined to think that's just a name recognition thing and nothing else and might change once debates get started. Biden and Sanders are about as far apart from each other as it gets in terms of ideology, having Biden/Sanders as your 1st/2nd choice seems like you're just picking the two most recognizable names on the ticket.

[Winehole23]

Plausible.

Exposure is bad for Biden. The more people see, the less they'll like him. I'm hoping he says/does something to sink his own chances before the primaries come around. It wouldn't be the first time.

[Pavlov]

I'd consider voting for Bernie if he was, you know, a Democrat.

He's a socialist who refuses to join a political movement for collective action.:lol

[Will Hunting]

I'd consider voting for Bernie if he was, you know, a Democrat.

I'd say the same thing with respect to Mass Incarceration Joe.

[Pavlov]

I'd say the same thing with respect to Mass Incarceration Joe.Except he is, you know, a Democrat.

[Will Hunting]

Except he is, you know, a Democrat.
In name only, sure.

[Pavlov]

In name only, sure.Bernie isn't even that.

[Will Hunting]

Bernie isn't even that.
Correct, but I care more about the actual issues than I do about whatever label is next to the person's name.

I guess you care more about labels than issues.

[boutons_deux]

Uncle Joe Biden Will Win Lady Vote With A Foot In His Mouth & A Finger In Their Face

(https://wonkette-img.rbl.ms/simage/https%3A%2F%2Fassets.rbl.ms%2F19594092%2F1200x600. gif/300%2C300/JK6IuntE1nT7riV7/img.gif)https://wonkette-img.rbl.ms/simage/https%3A%2F%2Fassets.rbl.ms%2F19594092%2F1200x600. gif/300%2C300/JK6IuntE1nT7riV7/img.gif

what in the ever-loving fuck is that? There's quite a lot wrong here, but the most egregious is the idea that it's the job of a young girl's brothers to make sure she never has sex. They are not nor will ever be in charge of her body.

But this is more than just a tired old joke from a tired (https://www.wonkette.com/fox-news-just-wondering-what-joe-biden-is-dying-from-today)old man.

It's patriarchal thinking that's completely out of step with modern feminist thought.

That's sort of important because the Democratic party is supposedly the feminist one.

https://www.wonkette.com/uncle-joe-will-win-the-lady-vote-with-a-foot-in-his-mouth-a-finger-in-their-face (https://www.wonkette.com/uncle-joe-will-win-the-lady-vote-with-a-foot-in-his-mouth-a-finger-in-their-face)

JB is way past his "Elect By: " date.