Bring back Parker for his last season

[SASdynasty!]

If it wasn’t overly clear by this series, we need someone out there that knows what the hell they’re doing. Someone who can dribble in crunch time and who can get you a bucket or 2 when you can’t score. Also a far better defender than Patty.

[HarlemHeat37]

I love TP, but he got benched by an East lottery team..if that doesn't convince him to retire, then I don't know what will..

[John B]

I love TP and he’s retiring a Spur with a sign and retire, however they do that. But no reason he encroach on White, DJ, Lonnie minutes.

[sananspursfan21]

Yeah I get the veteran resolve thing and all. It’s what ultimately kept him on the team and really in the starting lineup for so long. But, no thanks. That’s a step backwards. DJ and DWhite are gonna be a blast to watch. If we can cut ties with Patty (don’t know how), maybe grab Shaun Livingston or something. Without Googling, pretty sure he’s a free agent this offseason

[JeffDuncan]

I'd go for it as a trade of Parker for the wombat.

[John B]

I'd go for it as a trade of Parker for the wombat.
That wombat name still cracks me up :lmao He does look like a chubby wombat with his hair :lmao

[timvp]

It's pretty amazing that Parker is still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mills. :lol @ anyone who thought that was ever an argument.

Parker actually had a really good season, tbh.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol bringing back the pos who ruin everything?

[slick'81]

It's pretty amazing that Parker is still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mills. :lol @ anyone who thought that was ever an argument.

Parker actually had a really good season, tbh.

i was just gonna say id probably take him over mills:rollin

[spursistan]

It's pretty amazing that Parker is still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mills. :lol @ anyone who thought that was ever an argument.

Parker actually had a really good season, tbh.

How sad is this, man? How 'effin sad! :(

[Clipper Nation]

How did Porker do in the playoffs this year? Oh wait...

[ceperez]

I agree with this. If he comes cheap, then this team needs guidance big time!!!!

[HarlemHeat37]

Mills is as bad as it gets, but it's an unfair comparison..

One guy was playing 20 MPG in the playoffs(and in clutch time) and an essential piece for a West 7 seed that took the 2 seed to 7 games, while the other got benched by an East lottery team..

[FkLA]

Mills is as bad as it gets, but it's an unfair comparison..

One guy was playing 20 MPG in the playoffs(and in clutch time) and an essential piece for a West 7 seed that took the 2 seed to 7 games, while the other got benched by an East lottery team..

:lmao

[DAF86]

It's pretty amazing that Parker is still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mills. :lol @ anyone who thought that was ever an argument.

Parker actually had a really good season, tbh.

As tired as I have grown of Mills, to say Parker has been better than Mills, this season, is just not true. Patty at least had some value on offense during the regular season. Tony has been a negative impact player all across the board. That's why he ended in the doghouse of a non-playoffs team in the East, tbh.

With that said, I would bring him as a 3rd string guard for the vet minimum to end his career in San Antonio.

[spursistan]

Fact that this even a debate shows you how disgusting that Mills has managed to worm his way to a 50-millions contract when his last non-catastrophic showing in the playoffs was the '15 Clippers series..

[Stabula]

That wombat name still cracks me up :lmao He does look like a chubby wombat with his hair :lmao

More of a raccoon tbh.

[SASdynasty!]

Mills is as bad as it gets, but it's an unfair comparison..

One guy was playing 20 MPG in the playoffs(and in clutch time) and an essential piece for a West 7 seed that took the 2 seed to 7 games, while the other got benched by an East lottery team..
An East lottery team who had a significantly better record when Parker played. Not his fault the organization wanted to be a lottery team. Just like it’s not the Spurs fault the Spurs wanted to be a first round exit.

[BackHome]

Ouch :lmao

[HarlemHeat37]

An East lottery team who had a significantly better record when Parker played. Not his fault the organization wanted to be a lottery team. Just like it’s not the Spurs fault the Spurs wanted to be a first round exit.

They tried their hardest to get the 8th seed at the end of the season:lol

But anyways, you're right that the Spurs were a first round exit mostly due to TP..considering he ran Kawhi out of town, sadly..

[tmtcsc]

FUCK NO

[Mikeanaro]

No, Porker sucks leave him alone.

[gambit1990]

he got benched by an East lottery team..if that doesn't convince him to retire, then I don't know what will..
/thread

[Cryptic Parable]

I hate no one from the big 3 was here to pass on the torch or bring on court leadership. This team is really leaderless to me. Mills can't be the leader, sorry but Parker could. That's how important having good players on your bench is. Spurs need leadership on the court and toughness.

[K...]

Parker would be like White, with lesser shooting. Same amount of weakness and injury. I do think Parker and derozan might have bonded better than patty, but that's not really worth it

[timvp]

As tired as I have grown of Mills, to say Parker has been better than Mills, this season, is just not true.

Yes it is. Parker had arguably his best season since 2014. Mills is on the steady decline ... and he was never really in Parker's league to begin with. Only fans who never liked Parker to begin with would argue otherwise, tbh.


Mills is as bad as it gets, but it's an unfair comparison..

One guy was playing 20 MPG in the playoffs(and in clutch time) and an essential piece for a West 7 seed that took the 2 seed to 7 games, while the other got benched by an East lottery team..

:lol essential piece

When Parker played, the Hornets won at a clip that would have put them in the running for homecourt advantage in the East. Hornets tried to tank, then Blake Griffin hurt his knee and they almost accidentally made the playoffs. Besides, not all bench guards get to play behind multiple Hall of Famers their entire career, tbh.

[ShutUp SayItAgain!]

Hire him to the coaching staff, tbh

[ElNono]

Some people need to let go, tbh... especially Poop

[BillMc]

Regardless, does Tony have a team option or player option for his second year at the Hornets?

[TheGreatYacht]

Russ<3 fan calling out Parker for running a franchise player out :lol

Then the Bertans fan tags in to point out how bad Tony was because he got benched at the end of the season :lmao

You gotta love the irony. Anyways, enough entertaining shit schticks... Parker scored 20 off the bench this year against Denver. He would've easily had his way against a crap interior defense like that and wouldn't had shot 30% from the floor like the wombat did. HOTS wins games. Spurs had an insanely better record last season when starting as opposed to Murray starting. The Hornets also had a superior record when he played vs when he DNP-d. Carlos Arroyo with a bald spot player fans can't spin that shit. Period.

[Texas_Ranger]

Bring back Tony and make him and Patty retire after the season so they can have the jeresey retired at the same time. :cry

[TXstbobcat]

Regardless, does Tony have a team option or player option for his second year at the Hornets?

team option for the 2nd year of the contract.

[DAF86]

Yes it is. Parker had arguably his best season since 2014. Mills is on the steady decline ... and he was never really in Parker's league to begin with. Only fans who never liked Parker to begin with would argue otherwise, tbh.

Mills: 9.9 ppg, 3 apg, TS% .572, OBPM: 1.5, DBPM: -2.0, VORP: 0.7, on/off: +5.6

Parker: 9.5 ppg, 3.7 apg, TS% .512, OBPM: -1.5, DBPM: -3.7, VORP: -0.8, on/off: +0.5

Like I said: not a single objective thing to suggest Tony was better than Patty this season. Only fans whose judgement is being clouded by emotions would argue otherwise, tbh.

[Kurgan]

Let's sign a guy that couldn't even get minutes on a Eastern Conference lottery team. Why are Spurs fans so obsessed with collecting other team's garbage?

[R. DeMurre]

The Spurs have a logjam of guards and have to figure out how to use White, Murray, and Walker, who are all young and inexpensive options. How would Parker help? I'd rather see all three get minutes/experience next year. Parker wouldn't move the needle at all.

[TheGreatYacht]

Only fans whose judgement is being clouded by emotions would argue otherwise, tbh.
The audacity of Bertans' biggest fluffer to type this with a straight face :lmao

Bertans in 2018 playoffs:
3.4ppg, 2.2rpg, TS% .372, OBPM: -4.2, DBPM: 1.7, VORP: 0.0

Bertans in 2019 playoffs:
3.2ppg, 1.6rpg, TS% .465, OBPM: -3.4, DBPM: 0.6, VORP: 0.0

Facts don't care about your feelings bruh

[DAF86]

The audacity of Bertans' biggest fluffer to type this with a straight face :lmao

Bertans in 2018 playoffs:
3.4ppg, 2.2rpg, TS% .372, OBPM: -4.2, DBPM: 1.7, VORP: 0.0

Bertans in 2019 playoffs:
3.2ppg, 1.6rpg, TS% .465, OBPM: -3.4, DBPM: 0.6, VORP: 0.0

Facts don't care about your feelings bruh

I never said Bertans played well on these playoffs, tbh.

BTW, intelligent of you to leave on/off stats out, tbh.

[superbigtime]

Would love to see Mills go. I hope they have the opportunity and sense to do it. But for Parker? That would just seem weird now.

[Brazil]

Bring back Tony tbh.. 10 mn off the bench, mentor the kids, retire.. everybody happy

[BillMc]

team option for the 2nd year of the contract.

Thanks!!

[r0drig0lac]

really? pg-sg is literally the only place we have decent players on the roster (White, Murray, Walker)

[timvp]

Mills: 9.9 ppg, 3 apg, TS% .572, OBPM: 1.5, DBPM: -2.0, VORP: 0.7, on/off: +5.6

Parker: 9.5 ppg, 3.7 apg, TS% .512, OBPM: -1.5, DBPM: -3.7, VORP: -0.8, on/off: +0.5

Conveniently leaving off minutes per game because Mills played 30% more minutes :lol

Parker's per 100 possessions stats (25.7 points and 10.0 assists) blow Patty's per 100 possessions stats (20.8 points and 6.3 assists) out of the water.

OBPM, DBPM and VORP are all useless counting stats (based off the same formula) that penalize Parker for having low blocks and steals rates. PER isn't even that good but it's better. Speaking of which, Parker's PER (15.3) was higher than Patty's (13.2).

And can't compare on/off between teams fairly. The Hornets were as good with Parker on the court as they were with Kemba on the court.

Mills' biggest weakness is his defense. Parker, meanwhile, was the Hornets best defender according to plus/minus stats.

Parker at his very worst was still way better than the level Mills played in the playoffs. Come on now.

[Mugen]

Guys, guys....they both suck.

[timvp]

Russ<3 fan calling out Parker for running a franchise player out :lol

Then the Bertans fan tags in to point out how bad Tony was because he got benched at the end of the season :lmao

https://i.imgur.com/osDP6pc.gif

[DAF86]

Conveniently leaving off minutes per game because Mills played 30% more minutes :lol

Parker's per 100 possessions stats (25.7 points and 10.0 assists) blow Patty's per 100 possessions stats (20.8 points and 6.3 assists) out of the water.

OBPM, DBPM and VORP are all useless counting stats (based off the same formula) that penalize Parker for having low blocks and steals rates. PER isn't even that good but it's better. Speaking of which, Parker's PER (15.3) was higher than Patty's (13.2).

And can't compare on/off between teams fairly. The Hornets were as good with Parker on the court as they were with Kemba on the court.

Mills' biggest weakness is his defense. Parker, meanwhile, was the Hornets best defender according to plus/minus stats.

Parker at his very worst was still way better than the level Mills played in the playoffs. Come on now.

Dude, Parker got wiped out of the rotation of a lottery team in the East. How good could have he really been? :lol

Arguing PER is better than BPM and VORP. :lol

PER rewards high rate chuckers. The more you chuck the better your PER will tend to be. It's basically a box-score summary adjusted to minutes played without punishing misses enough (not to mention that it doesn't even consider defense at all). BPM and VORP have it's flaws but at least take more things into consideration.

No, Parker wasn't better than Mills this season. Not even playoffs' version Mills, because Mills at least got to play them. Tony wouldn't have even if his team made it that far.

[SpurPadre]

Parker would be like White, with lesser shooting. Same amount of weakness and injury. I do think Parker and derozan might have bonded better than patty, but that's not really worth it

TP would never go 0-7 in a Game 7, tbh.

[timvp]

Dude, Parker got wiped out of the rotation of a lottery team in the East. How good could have he really been? :lol

Good enough for the Hornets to be 30-26 when Parker played and 9-17 when Parker didn't play.


BPM and VORP have it's flaws but at least take more things into consideration.No it doesn't. PER uses more statistics in its calculation.

BPM (box plus/minus) is basically attempting to estimate plus/minus using box stats. That might have been useful ten years ago when actual plus/minus numbers weren't widely available. PER at least attempts to put a value on a player rather than estimate something that is now available.


No, Parker wasn't better than Mills this season. Not even playoffs' version Mills, because Mills at least got to play them. Tony wouldn't have even if his team made it that far.
Wow. I've seen some mental gymnastics in my days on SpursTalk but that there might be worthy of a gold medal.

[SpursforSix]

Spurs need someone that can lead on the court. IDK if that's Parker but it's sure not Aldridge or Demar.

[Drom John]

It's pretty amazing that Parker is still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mills. :lol @ anyone who thought that was ever an argument.

Parker actually had a really good season, tbh.

ESPN Real Plus Minus Wins PGS

30) Landry Shamat
31) Patty Mills
32) Ryan Archidiacono

59) Matthew Dellanova
60) Tony Parker, 71st on defense
61) Raymond Felton

That fits the eye test.

[duncan2k5]

Hell no!

[DAF86]

Good enough for the Hornets to be 30-26 when Parker played and 9-17 when Parker didn't play.

That says nothing without context. There are lots of things to consider to explain those récords, tbh, for example: grade of difficulty of the rivals faced.

One thing is for sure: if Tony would have really been the difference between the Hornets winning and losing, he wouldn't have been taken out of the rotation.


No it doesn't. PER uses more statistics in its calculation.

BPM (box plus/minus) is basically attempting to estimate plus/minus using box stats. That might have been useful ten years ago when actual plus/minus numbers weren't widely available. PER at least attempts to put a value on a player rather than estimate something that is now available.

Tony -> PER: 15.3 / BPM: -5.2 / VORP: -0.8
Mills -> PER: 13.2 / BPM: -0.5 / VORP: 0.7
Danny Green -> PER: 13.0 / BPM: 2.9 / VORP: 2.7

Which one do you think it's better to determine the true value of a player?


Wow. I've seen some mental gymnastics in my days on SpursTalk but that there might be worthy of a gold medal.

What menatl gymnastics? One played 22 mpg on the playoffs, the other got hooked out of a rotation spot by a lottery team. It really shouldn't even be a debate, tbh.

[gambit1990]

One thing is for sure: if Tony would have really been the difference between the Hornets winning and losing, he wouldn't have been taken out of the rotation.
exactly.

timvp said they shut tony down because the POs were out of reach... then why didn't they play him again once when they were in the thick of it again? :lol

[SASdynasty!]

TP would never go 0-7 in a Game 7, tbh.
Exactly.

[SASdynasty!]

exactly.

timvp said they shut tony down because the POs were out of reach... then why didn't they play him again once when they were in the thick of it again? :lol
Because they’re a dumb organization, which is why they are perpetually terrible.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Still love Tony. And it would have been nice to have an actual PG on the roster this year, even off the bench. But the Spurs offered him the same money, from what we're told, and he didn't like the role he would have had. If he wanted to retire a Spur, he should have taken it and retired here. His choice, move on.

[gambit1990]

Because they’re a dumb organization, which is why they are perpetually terrible.
hornets went 8-5 without tony down the stretch. including a win against the celtics and two wins against the raptors.

[Kurgan]

Still love Tony. And it would have been nice to have an actual PG on the roster this year, even off the bench. But the Spurs offered him the same money, from what we're told, and he didn't like the role he would have had. If he wanted to retire a Spur, he should have taken it and retired here. His choice, move on.

What's ironic is that the Murray injury would have probably resulted in Parker receiving more playing time here than in Charlotte. He chose poorly and ended up getting DNP'd out of the rotation.

[ZeusWillJudge]

What's ironic is that the Murray injury would have probably resulted in Parker receiving more playing time here than in Charlotte. He chose poorly and ended up getting DNP'd out of the rotation.


Yep.

He indicated that the Spurs wanted him for more of a mentor role for the young guys, and he made it clear he didn't want that. At the time, we had a couple of players who really could have used that help.

If he came back and signed for the minimum, the league would pay for half his salary. (At least I don't think that changed in the last CBA.) So he would be pretty cheap. But if he doesn't want to be here to help out the two young guys, I think I'd still pass.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I think he’s probably realized he’s not the player he used to be and would be ok as the team’s 11th player in the rotation. He deserves to retire a Spur, so I’d love to see him have a final season in a Spurs’ uniform...for the vet minimum of course.

[RC_Drunkford]

would like to have him back to teach the new guys some things, but we'd need to trade some of the other guards like Beli or Mills

[Chillen]

It's up to Tony going by everything I read he chose to leave and sign with Hornets when Spurs offered him same salary but a reduced role. No doubt Spurs would love to have him back in silver and black.

[Dverde]

I normally would say sign him up, but with Patty being here it is actually a net negative. Smart move would be to trade Patty knowing you could sign Parker at the vet min to replace him. Patty and Forbes are the same type of player. Parker could help White and DJ Murray in ways Patty cannot. Trading Patty would probably cost a first round pick which means it wont happen.

[MultiTroll]

:cheerPPP:cheer

Pop n Patty n Parker

[hater]

I'd take him for the min

His leadership is needed in this team full of followers

[WallyTiger]

:cheerPPP:cheer

Pop n Patty n Parker


if so, spurstalk fucked

[ZeusWillJudge]

I'd take him for the min

His leadership is needed in this team full of followers


Those two things would be the test, if I were making the decision. Anything more than the vet min would be a travesty. Period. He wasn't willing to be a leader/mentor from the bench last year. But if he's had a change of heart on that, okay.

Taking up a roster spot and spending any money just for a symbolic gesture would really piss me off. The Spurs can still raise his jersey to the rafters, and have a big ceremony, and put him on the jumbotron, even if he technically "retired" in a Hornets jersey. He's the one who chose to do that.

If the Spurs still need him as a PG next season, the team is fucked anyway.

[look_at_g_shred]

No. Everyone wants him just for the leadership? That's on Pop. Instead of "you guys figure it out" how about some sound advice?