Who should Get to Vote in Federal Elections?

[a777pilot]

1. Must be US citizen and able to prove it.

2. Must be a real, living person and able to prove it.

3. Must be mentally and physically independent and able to prove it.

4. Must not be in prison as a result of a felony conviction.

Additionally, must not vote in more than one precinct, county, or state per election.

[rmt]

1. Must be US citizen and able to prove it.

2. Must be a real, living person and able to prove it.

3. Must be mentally and physically independent and able to prove it.

4. Must not be in prison as a result of a felony conviction.

Additionally, must not vote in more than one precinct, county, or state per election.

I don't agree with the bolded. People with physical disabilities should be able to vote.

[a777pilot]

I don't agree with the bolded. People with physical disabilities should be able to vote.

I could not agree more, but those that are kept virtual prisons in their home or nursing homes ought not be able to vote because they are not free to do so.

[Pavlov]

I could not agree more, but those that are kept virtual prisons in their home or nursing homes ought not be able to vote because they are not free to do so.You could not agree more, but you actually disagree.

[RandomGuy]

1. Must be US citizen and able to prove it.

2. Must be a real, living person and able to prove it.

3. Must be mentally and physically independent and able to prove it.

4. Must not be in prison as a result of a felony conviction.

Additionally, must not vote in more than one precinct, county, or state per election.

So who gets to decide who is "mentally independent".

I'll volunteer to set the criteria for evaluating you.

[a777pilot]

You could not agree more, but you actually disagree.

Fuck you asshole! How dare you tell ME what I think. I want everyone who is capable and legal to vote, to vote if they chose to vote.

I will await your apology but I won't expect it. I rarely see liberals do the correct thing.

[Pavlov]

Fuck you asshole! How dare you tell ME what I think.YOU just told me what YOU think.

[a777pilot]

So who gets to decide who is "mentally independent".

I'll volunteer to set the criteria for evaluating you.

There ya go! Liberals will assess you bases solely on wether you agree with them or not.

I await your criteria for evaluating ME! Really, ask your questions to see if I am mentally independent.

I know people in nursing homes with dementia or Alzheimers, do you think they ought to vote? Being a Liberal, I'm sure you would steal their ballot and vote for them, proving once again how criminal liberals/Democrats are.

[a777pilot]

YOU just told me what YOU think.

Well I tried, but you thought you knew more of what I think than I do.

Please give me an example of what I think. I wait.......

[Pavlov]

I know people not in nursing homes with dementia. Should they be allowed to vote?

[a777pilot]

YOU just told me what YOU think.

No, what I told you is that I don't agree with you. To a Liberal, and agreeing with them, is a mortal sin.

[Pavlov]

Well I tried, but you thought you knew more of what I think than I do.

Please give me an example of what I think. I wait.......


People with physical disabilities should be able to vote.


I could not agree more, but those that are kept virtual prisons in their home or nursing homes ought not be able to vote because they are not free to do so.

You should put "think" in quotes like that tbh.

[Pavlov]

No, what I told you is that I don't agree with you. And that's what you think.

[a777pilot]

And that's what you think.

Yes.

[spurraider21]

Yes.
Man, he just told YOU what YOU think. And you agreed.

[a777pilot]

I know people not in nursing homes with dementia. Should they be allowed to vote?

I would think that would be a function of their care takers, not to agree with their vote, but to determine if they have the mental capabilities to make that decision....erring on the side of letting them vote.

[a777pilot]

This is my position on voting:
1. Must be US citizen and able to prove it.

2. Must be a real, living person and able to prove it.

3. Must be mentally and physically independent and able to prove it.

4. Must not be in prison as a result of a felony conviction.

Additionally, must not vote in more than one precinct, county, or state per election.

[a777pilot]

If there is a portion that you disagree, make your case. If you are confused of what my position is, ask me to clarify.

[Pavlov]

I would think that would be a function of their care takers, not to agree with their vote, but to determine if they have the mental capabilities to make that decision....erring on the side of letting them vote.So you want to give nurses and aides veto power over 1.4 million voters.

I disagree.

My case is lol you.

[ElNono]

:lol whose troll is this?... just when everyone pretty much agreed Othyus Lalanne (sp?) was the worst poster in recent memory, we get somebody to take the crown...

[a777pilot]

:lol whose troll is this?... just when everyone pretty much agreed Othyus Lalanne (sp?) was the worst poster in recent memory, we get somebody to take the crown...

...and you think a championship in a child's game is something to be proud of and what makes your world worth living.

[spurraider21]

:lol whose troll is this?... just when everyone pretty much agreed Othyus Lalanne (sp?) was the worst poster in recent memory, we get somebody to take the crown...
Othyus is so bizarre... derp level intelligence with goldfish level attention span and ability to hold a discussion on a single subject

[a777pilot]

So you want to give nurses and aides veto power over 1.4 million voters.

I disagree.

My case is lol you.

I was thinking family, but I tend to agree with you on NOT allowing the non-family have control those votes.

As to your LOL me, at least I have a position and am not afraid to state it.

[Chucho]

:lol whose troll is this?... just when everyone pretty much agreed Othyus Lalanne (sp?) was the worst poster in recent memory, we get somebody to take the crown...


No, not even close. You've got at least 4 guys EASILY ahead of that dude. At his very worst, he really just wants you to like his cute little GIF avatars.

He's got nothing on Alt Boy, Old Pedo, Andrew the Invisible Man or Faggs.

[a777pilot]

Othyus is so bizarre... derp level intelligence with goldfish level attention span and ability to hold a discussion on a single subject

Interesting, what is the attention span of a goldfish?

p.s., I know.

[Trainwreck2100]

If stupid people can vote, people with medical conditions should be able to vote.

[Pavlov]

I was thinking family, but I tend to agree with you on NOT allowing the non-family have control those votes.

As to your LOL me, at least I have a position and am not afraid to state it.My position is lol you and hopefully your family takes away all your privileges.

[spurraider21]

How does one prove to be mentally able when registering to vote?

[Phenomanul]

1. Must be US citizen and able to prove it.

2. Must be a real, living person and able to prove it.

3. Must be 18 years or older and able to prove it.

4. Must not be in prison as a result of a felony conviction.

Additionally, must not vote in more than one precinct, county, or state per election.

Fixed it for you.

[Pavlov]

I don't know what Trump supporters are complaining about. Pretty much all the vote and ballot fraud in the past two federal elections has been done for Republicans.

[a777pilot]

How does one prove to be mentally able when registering to vote?

...by registering to vote?

[spurraider21]

1. Must be US citizen and able to prove it.

2. Must be a real, living person and able to prove it.

3. Must be mentally and physically independent and able to prove it.

4. Must not be in prison as a result of a felony conviction.

Additionally, must not vote in more than one precinct, county, or state per election.


How does one prove to be mentally able when registering to vote?


...by registering to vote?
Then the first half of number 3 is unnecessary

[a777pilot]

I don't know what Trump supporters are complaining about. Pretty much all the vote and ballot fraud in the past two federal elections has been done for Republicans.

LOL! Not even close. I give you the over three million votes by non-citizens, or more. Then all the Democrat votes by the dead and the made up. Let's not forget the multiple voters. Then there is the Democrat invention, the totally non-voting votes. (For an example of this, check out LBJ's first win as a US Senator.)

[a777pilot]

Then the first half of number 3 is unnecessary

Good point.

I agree, my number 3 is poorly worded.

[Pavlov]

LOL! Not even close. I give you the over three million votes by non-citizens, or more. Then all the Democrat votes by the dead and the made up. Let's not forget the multiple voters. Then there is the Democrat invention, the totally non-voting votes. (For an example of this, check out LBJ's first win as a US Senator.)
Where is your proof of vote and ballot fraud the past two federal elections?

Back up your claim.

[mrsmaalox]

:lol whose troll is this?... just when everyone pretty much agreed Othyus Lalanne (sp?) was the worst poster in recent memory, we get somebody to take the crown...

Avante’s senile brother :lol

[Spurminator]

LOL! Not even close. I give you the over three million votes by non-citizens, or more. Then all the Democrat votes by the dead and the made up. Let's not forget the multiple voters. Then there is the Democrat invention, the totally non-voting votes.

I see your three billion Democrat votes and counter (just as credibly) with the 250 bajillion fraudulent Republican votes from the last election.

Check mate, asswipe.

[Will Hunting]

I see your three billion Democrat votes and counter (just as credibly) with the 250 bajillion fraudulent Republican votes from the last election.

Check mate, asswipe.
He said 3 million OR MORE though :lol

[baseline bum]

Op was military and thinks there shouldn't be taxes. Don't know why anyone responds.

[RandomGuy]

LOL! Not even close. I give you the over three million votes by non-citizens, or more. Then all the Democrat votes by the dead and the made up. Let's not forget the multiple voters. Then there is the Democrat invention, the totally non-voting votes. (For an example of this, check out LBJ's first win as a US Senator.)

The only voting fraud we found in the last election was Republicans literally stealing votes from mail in voters by going door to door claiming to be election officials.
https://www.gq.com/story/north-carolina-election-fraud-harris

Since you are new here, you have missed out on the thorough debunking of hte "3 million votes by non-citizens" claim. I strongly urge you to try to find actual evidence of this. You won't.

But try. I call bullshit on the claim. Your claim, your burden of proof.

[Phenomanul]

I don't know what Trump supporters are complaining about. Pretty much all the vote and ballot fraud in the past two federal elections has been done for Republicans.

You don't see a problem with the fact that the U.S. Census gives heavily democratic areas of the country more seats in Congress because undocumented immigrants are ALSO being counted for representation?

I'm sure some of the effect cancels itself out (seats appropriated to California vs. seats appropriated to Texas). But the practice of misappropriating Congressional seats, on account of misrepresenting the population citizens must end.

[RandomGuy]

LOL! Not even close. I give you the over three million votes by non-citizens, or more.


I will though, give you the starter kit for debunking this conspiracy theory. It may shock you to know, but the main snake oil salesman for this, the guy pushing this ridiculous theory actually got his day in court. It was comically bad.

How the Case for Voter Fraud Was Tested — and Utterly Failed
....when the top proponent was challenged in a Kansas courtroom to prove that such fraud is rampant, the claims went up in smoke.


For Kobach, the trial should’ve been a moment of glory. He’s been arguing for a decade that voter fraud is a national calamity. Much of his career has been built on this issue, along with his fervent opposition to illegal immigration. (His claim is that unlawful immigrants are precisely the ones voting illegally.) Kobach, who also co-chaired the Trump administration’s short-lived commission on voter fraud, is perhaps the individual most identified with the cause of sniffing out and eradicating phony voter registration. He’s got a gilded resume, with degrees from Harvard University, Yale Law School and the University of Oxford, and is seen as both the intellect behind the cause and its prime advocate. Kobach has written voter laws in other jurisdictions and defended them in court. If anybody ever had time to marshal facts and arguments before a trial, it was Kobach.

But things didn’t go well for him in the Kansas City courtroom, as Robinson’s opinion made clear. Kobach’s strongest evidence of non-citizen registration was anemic at best: Over a 20-year period, fewer than 40 non-citizens had attempted to register in one Kansas county that had 130,000 voters. Most of those 40 improper registrations were the result of mistakes or confusion rather than intentional attempts to mislead, and only five of the 40 managed to cast a vote.

One of Kobach’s own experts even rebutted arguments made by both Kobach and President Donald Trump. The expert testified that a handful of improper registrations could not be extrapolated to conclude that 2.8 million fraudulent votes — roughly, the gap between Hillary Clinton and Trump in the popular vote tally — had been cast in the 2016 presidential election. Testimony from a second key expert for Kobach also fizzled.

As the judge’s opinion noted, Kobach insisted the meager instances of cheating revealed at trial are just “the tip of the iceberg.” As she explained, “This trial was his opportunity to produce credible evidence of that iceberg, but he failed to do so.” Dismissing the testimony by Kobach’s witnesses as unpersuasive, Robinson drew what she called “the more obvious conclusion that there is no iceberg; only an icicle largely created by confusion and administrative error.”
https://www.propublica.org/article/kris-kobach-voter-fraud-kansas-trial

Read the article, read the accounts of the trial. This guy was THE top guy for this conspiracy theory. He gave it his best shot.

[RandomGuy]

You don't see a problem with the fact that the U.S. Census gives heavily democratic areas of the country more seats in Congress because undocumented immigrants are ALSO being counted for representation?

I'm sure some of the effect cancels itself out (seats appropriated to California vs. seats appropriated to Texas). But the practice of misappropriating Congressional seats, on account of misrepresenting the population citizens must end.

Quantify the effect. If memory serves the studies I have seen say the opposite. I could be wrong, but if you want to claim either way, the burden of proof is on you for that.

[RandomGuy]

Avante’s senile brother :lol

Googley boogely. Long time no see.

[mrsmaalox]

Googley boogely. Long time no see.

Hey! I pop in a couple times a week to read the forums. I gotta keep those ol’ eyeroll muscles in shape you know ;)

[Phenomanul]

Quantify the effect. If memory serves the studies I have seen say the opposite. I could be wrong, but if you want to claim either way, the burden of proof is on you for that.

I'm saying undocumented immigrants shouldn't be counted at all until they become legal residents or citizens - hence the need for a "Citizenship Question" on the U.S. Census Survey. The question is trying to be added back on the U.S. Census Survey, but that effort is now being challenged by the courts (surprise, surprise) even though it had been on every U.S. Census prior to the last one. So the question begs, why are Democrats so keen on keeping that particular question out?

[a777pilot]

Fixed it for you.

OK, I'll buy that.

[a777pilot]

Hey piece of shit, do you have links to this?

So, let me get this straight, if it is on the internet it is true. No link, then not true.

[Phenomanul]

Hey, piece of shit, do you have a link to all of this?

this guy... :rolleyes

https://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/2020-census-litigation

You'll notice that the judicial districts challenging the legality of the "Citizenship" question are mostly heavily Democratic districts. They're protecting their wild card.

[a777pilot]

Holy fuck you’re a mongoloid piece of shit

Ain't it the truth.

Who do you think ought to be able to vote in federal elections?

[TheGreatYacht]

The old voter suppression by Republicans...

[Phenomanul]

I would also point out that Democratic Party leaders KNOW that undocumented immigrants are being counted. Otherwise they wouldn't complain about potential "loss of representation".

https://twitter.com/EricHolder/status/978506294314270720

[spurraider21]

no, they're saying it's going to lower the response rate of people who arent in legal jeopardy

[Phenomanul]

no, they're saying it's going to lower the response rate of people who arent in legal jeopardy

Based on an irrational fear? You either are a citizen or you aren't.

If you aren't a Citizen then don't take the survey, don't be counted. I would think that anonymity is the best self-preservation tactic for remaining in the shadows.

Allowing yourself to be counted in the census (counted as a citizen), however, is as bad as entering the country illicitly.

But Democrats know that the Census-based redistricting process can boost their Congressional representation if ALL people are counted (including those who legally shouldn't have a voice in our elections). Which parts of the country have the highest density of undocumented immigrants? Those which have lax deportation enforcement - which coincidently happen to also be Democratic controlled districts.

An increase in population between two censuses means that a Congressional district can potentially be split into two and so now instead of being assigned one seat in congress that area now receives two. They're playing the system and they know it.

[spurraider21]

Based on an irrational fear? You either are a citizen or you aren't.

If you aren't a Citizen then don't take the survey, don't be counted. I would think that anonymity is the best self-preservation tactic for remaining in the shadows.

Allowing yourself to be counted in the census (counted as a citizen), however, is as bad as entering the country illicitly.

But Democrats know it can boost their Congressional representation if ALL people are counted (including those who legally shouldn't have a voice in our elections). Which parts of the country have the highest density of undocumented immigrants? Those which have lax deportation enforcement - which coincidently happen to be Democratic controlled districts. Increased population means that those Congressional districts potentially split into two and so now instead of being assigned one seat in congress that area now receives two. They're playing the system and they know it.
if so they why are you worried that illegals are rampantly tilting the scales through the census?

[TheGreatYacht]

Based on an irrational fear? You either are a citizen or you aren't.

If you aren't a Citizen then don't take the survey, don't be counted. I would think that anonymity is the best self-preservation tactic for remaining in the shadows.

Allowing yourself to be counted in the census (counted as a citizen), however, is as bad as entering the country illicitly.

But Democrats know that the Census-based redistricting process can boost their Congressional representation if ALL people are counted (including those who legally shouldn't have a voice in our elections). Which parts of the country have the highest density of undocumented immigrants? Those which have lax deportation enforcement - which coincidently happen to also be Democratic controlled districts.

An increase in population between two censuses means that a Congressional district can potentially be split into two and so now instead of being assigned one seat in congress that area now receives two. They're playing the system and they know it.

Let's get rid of gerrymandering. Fixed.

[Phenomanul]

if so they why are you worried that illegals are rampantly tilting the scales through the census?

I don't know if you are being disingenuously naïve or simply playing coy. Because undocumented immigrants are being encouraged to participate, encouraged to be counted.

[spurraider21]

I don't know if you are being disingenuously naïve or simply playing coy. Because undocumented immigrants are being encouraged to participate, encouraged to be counted.
so they prefer anonymity for self preservation but are going out and responding to the census in droves

[Phenomanul]

Eric Holder is on a personal crusade to let "EVERYONE" know that their voice matters "whether you are an undocumented immigrant or not".

His tweets masquerade a purposeful agenda under the guise of civic equality. The process undermines our nation's sovereignty. Undocumented immigrants are being given a voice in our elections process even if they don't ever cast a ballot directly.

[spurraider21]

Eric Holder is on a personal crusade to let "EVERYONE" know that their voice matters "whether you are an undocumented immigrant or not".

His tweets masquerade a purposeful agenda under the guise of civic equality. The process undermines our nation's sovereignty. Undocumented immigrants are being given a voice in our elections process even if they don't ever cast a ballot directly.
where are you getting those Holder quotes from?

[ducks]

Atleast one patent a legal USA citizen when baby is born on USA citizen should be able to vote

[Phenomanul]

so they prefer anonymity for self preservation but are going out and responding to the census in droves

You completely misread that.

I'm suggesting that anonymity should be their play. Instead they are being led to be defiant and actually participate in the census process - totally the opposite of anonymity.

[ducks]

where are you getting those Holder quotes from?


He sucked him off last night

[spurraider21]

He sucked him off last night
gay fantasies brought to you by ducks

[Phenomanul]

He sucked him off last night

Are you this stupid?

I'm arguing against the practice that gives undocumented immigrants an indirect voice in our elections. NOT for it. SMDH.

[Phenomanul]

where are you getting those Holder quotes from?

LOL his tweets are full of such 'Freudian slip' nuggets.

[spurraider21]

You completely misread that.

I'm suggesting that anonymity should be their play. Instead they are being led to be defiant and actually participate in the census process - totally the opposite of anonymity.
gotcha.

the argument is that you're going to drive down participation from otherwise legal participants because they may have family of questionable status that they dont want looked into. so they avoid answering any questions about it. you might argue the rationale is then solid... effectively "smoking out" illegal immigrants. but then you're still faced with the consequence of not having an accurate representation count. the studies have shown that the decrease in valid census responses would outweigh whatever extent of census fraud you believe such measure would prevent.

if you're really worried about representation issues... a more effective means would be to revisit the way senate seats are distributed and the electoral college.

[spurraider21]

LOL his tweets are full of such 'Freudian slip' nuggets.
oh so you made them up

[spurraider21]

Are you this stupid?
i mean you're talking to ducks...

[Pavlov]

You don't see a problem with the fact that the U.S. Census gives heavily democratic areas of the country more seats in Congress because undocumented immigrants are ALSO being counted for representation?

I'm sure some of the effect cancels itself out (seats appropriated to California vs. seats appropriated to Texas). But the practice of misappropriating Congressional seats, on account of misrepresenting the population citizens must end.
The census counts people, not citizens.

Slaves and women counted when they couldn't vote either.

[a777pilot]

Holy shit you’re a fucking ignorant racist.

LOL!

Anytime one does not agree with a Liberal, that one is stupid and is a racist. Y'all need to get a new shtick. This one is getting old.

[Phenomanul]

The census counts people, not citizens.

Slaves and women counted when they couldn't vote either.

Sleight-of-hand deflection noted.

My point stands, only Citizens should vote. Only Citizens should be counted towards the appropriation of Congressional seats.

Or do you want non-Citizens to also be counted in the tally?

Each Congressional seat represents roughly 600,000 - 700,000 constituents (for a total of 435 Congress members). If there are roughly 11 - 22 million undocumented immigrants in this country (depending on who's counting https://phys.org/news/2018-09-undocumented-immigrant-population-roughly-current.html); you do the math.

So while undocumented immigrants may not be directly casting votes, Democratically controlled areas of the nation gain as much as 33 seats simply by accounting for a larger head-count in their districts.

How many bills have passed or been stalled by a lesser margin?

[spurraider21]

Sleight-of-hand deflection noted.

My point stands, only Citizens should vote. Only Citizens should be counted towards the appropriation of Congressional seats.

Or do you want non-Citizens to also be counted in the tally?

Each Congressional seat represents roughly 600,000 - 700,000 constituents (for a total of 435 Congress members). If there are roughly 11 - 22 million undocumented immigrants in this country (depending on who's counting https://phys.org/news/2018-09-undocumented-immigrant-population-roughly-current.html); you do the math.

So while undocumented immigrants may not be directly casting votes, Democratically controlled areas of the nation gain as much as 33 seats simply by accounting for a larger head-count in their districts.

How many bills have passed or been stalled by a lesser margin?
yes if 100% of them respond to the census and 100% of them live in democrat controlled districts.

[ChumpDumper]

Sleight-of-hand deflection noted.

My point stands, only Citizens should vote. Only Citizens should be counted towards the appropriation of Congressional seats. Then change the Constitution and never call yourself an originalist ever again.

[Phenomanul]

yes if 100% of them respond to the census and 100% of them live in democrat controlled districts.

Apparently you don't know how the Census process works.

The Census isn't a one-to-one tally. They are forced to extrapolate based on statistical algorithms that vary by zone and the use of a population density matrix which may or may not be representative for a particular area (the methods aren't nearly as exact as we would want them to be or as exact as the country needs them to be).

Also way to dodge the crux of the argument; should non-Citizens be counted for Congressional representation, yes or no?

[Phenomanul]

Then change the Constitution and never call yourself an originalist ever again.

More deflection on your part.

Explain how an undocumented immigrant being 'counted' towards the appropriation of Congressional seats is not tantamount to voting/influencing federal elections. Liberals deny both counts. So which is it? Are undocumented immigrants influencing our federal elections yes or no...?

[ChumpDumper]

More deflection on your part.

Explain how an undocumented immigrant being 'counted' towards the appropriation of Congressional seats is not tantamount to voting/influencing federal elections. Liberals deny both counts. So which is it? Are undocumented immigrants influencing our federal elections yes or no...?
It's not tantamount to voting in federal elections because it's not voting in federal elections.

That was easy.:tu

Changing the census requires a constitutional amendment.

Period.

[Phenomanul]

Then change the Constitution and never call yourself an originalist ever again.

The Constitution has been amended several times. Including ratification of the 19th Amendment which granted woman the right to vote (brought upon by the woman's suffrage movement).

Most nations on earth only allow Citizens to vote under universal suffrage. Why is this suddenly an evil for the U.S. to require the same...?

[ChumpDumper]

The Constitution has been amended several times. Including ratification of the 19th Amendment which granted woman the right to vote (brought upon by the woman's suffrage movement).Then do it if you're even a citizen.



Most nations on earth only allow Citizens to vote under universal suffrage. Why is this suddenly an evil for the U.S. to require the same...?Which noncitizens vote in federal elections?

[Phenomanul]

It's not tantamount to voting in federal elections because it's not voting in federal elections.

That was easy.:tu

Changing the census requires a constitutional amendment.

Period.


More deflection... sigh... Your intellectual dishonesty knows no bounds.

Democratic districts have appropriated themselves with more seats in congress because of undocumented immigration to deny this dynamic is just flat out denial on your part.

You aren't that clever. Period.

[ChumpDumper]

More deflection... sigh... Your intellectual dishonesty knows no bounds.

Democratic districts have appropriated themselves with more seats in congress because of undocumented immigration to deny this dynamic is just flat out denial on your part.

You aren't that clever. Period.So what? It's the constitution. Change it if it bugs you that much. You're not changing it by posting here.

Being the in the US isn't voting no matter how much you try to say it is.

You're really quite stupid.

Period.

[Spurtacular]

It's not tantamount to voting in federal elections because it's not voting in federal elections.


Chucho come cry at chump about how he doesn't know what tantamount means.

[Phenomanul]

So what? It's the constitution. Change it if it bugs you that much. You're not changing it by posting here.

Being the in the US isn't voting no matter how much you try to say it is.

You're really quite stupid.

Period.

I never said it was. I said it was tantamount to voting because it influences our federal elections. Don't play coy. We can debate the extent to which this effect has affected the federal elections process, but at least be honest with yourself and acknowledge that said effect is real. Even RandomGuy acknowledged as much. You are sitting behind your keyboard trying to suggest it's a non-issue attempting to beat around the bush by playing the semantics game. You do this all the time and it undermines whatever objectivity you pretend to embody.

The fact is that there are democratic Congressional representatives that are in office TODAY simply because a large enough density of undocumented immigrants locally inflated the population of their home districts. Even one seat gained by this dynamic is one seat too many - and that IS my point.

[spurraider21]

Apparently you don't know how the Census process works.

The Census isn't a one-to-one tally. They are forced to extrapolate based on statistical algorithms that vary by zone and the use of a population density matrix which may or may not be representative for a particular area (the methods aren't nearly as exact as we would want them to be or as exact as the country needs them to be).

Also way to dodge the crux of the argument; should non-Citizens be counted for Congressional representation, yes or no?
i think permanent residents should be included. not people on visas or otherwise

[ChumpHumper]

I never said it was. I said it was tantamount to voting because it influences our federal elections. Don't play coy. We can debate the extent to which this effect has affected federal elections process, but at least be honest with yourself and acknowledge that said effect is real. Even RandomGuy acknowledged as much. You are sitting behind your keyboard trying to suggest it's a non-issue attempting to beat around the bush by playing the semantics game. You do this all the time and it undermines whatever objectivity you pretend to embody.

The fact is that there are democratic Congressional representatives that are in office TODAY simply because a large enough density of undocumented immigrants locally inflated the population of their home districts. Even one seat gained by this dynamic is one seat too many - and that IS my point.

My pretend objectivity is as un-compromised as the Constitution that you're too lazy to change.

[Phenomanul]

i think permanent residents should be included. not people on visas or otherwise

Permanent residents are a fair discussion point. They have a SS number. They pay federal income taxes. Most of them are in some 'line' to obtain their Citizenship.

[ChumpHumper]

Permanent residents are a fair discussion point. They have a SS number. They pay federal income taxes. Most of them are in some 'line' to obtain their Citizenship.

The govt. is derelict of duty in not offering these long-term residents social security #'s.

[ChumpDumper]

https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/derp-gif-16.gif

[ChumpDumper]

I never said it was. I said it was tantamount to voting because it influences our federal elections. Don't play coy. We can debate the extent to which this effect has affected the federal elections process, but at least be honest with yourself and acknowledge that said effect is real. Even RandomGuy acknowledged as much. You are sitting behind your keyboard trying to suggest it's a non-issue attempting to beat around the bush by playing the semantics game. You do this all the time and it undermines whatever objectivity you pretend to embody.

The fact is that there are democratic Congressional representatives that are in office TODAY simply because a large enough density of undocumented immigrants locally inflated the population of their home districts. Even one seat gained by this dynamic is one seat too many - and that IS my point.Then quit your bitching and change the constitution.

Are you even a citizen?

[ChumpHumper]

Then quit your bitching and change the constitution.

Are you even a citizen?

He's more un-American than the undocumented migrants he's complaining about.

[ChumpDumper]

derp

[Spurtacular]

Chump dodging.

[Phenomanul]

Then quit your bitching and change the constitution.

Are you even a citizen?

Another dodge on your part. And yes I am a US Citizen you smug twat.

[ChumpHumper]

derp


He's more un-American than the undocumented migrants he's complaining about.

Do you disagree?

Yes or no.

[ChumpHumper]

Another dodge on your part. And yes I am a US Citizen you smug twat.

:lol Proud of your white privilege.

[Pavlov]

Another dodge on your part. And yes I am a US Citizen you smug twat.
You're the one dodging the only solution available to you.

[Phenomanul]

:lol Proud of your white privilege.

Lol... assumptions make an ass out of you. I’m a Mexican-born American Citizen. :rolleyes

[Phenomanul]

You're the one dodging the only solution available to you.

No you are sitting there in smug cynicism trying to pretend that illegal immigration DOESN’T affect our federal elections process. You’ve dodged acknowledgement of that simple fact over and over again and still have the audacity to call me out for your own intellectual dishonesty...

[baseline bum]

i think permanent residents should be included. not people on visas or otherwise

If the south could count 3/5 of their slaves toward congressional and electoral representation I don't see why California shouldn't be able to count 3/5 of their wetbacks.

[Chucho]

Chucho come cry at chump about how he doesn't know what tantamount means.

He used it properly, derp.

Hourly L for derp.

[a777pilot]

If the south could count 3/5 of their slaves toward congressional and electoral representation I don't see why California shouldn't be able to count 3/5 of their wetbacks.

Why? Because it was wrong to count any of the slaves and it is just as wrong to count all the illegals.

[spurraider21]

Why? Because it was wrong to count any of the slaves and it is just as wrong to count all the illegals.
the constitution says you're supposed to count all persons for representation though, not just permanent residents or citizens

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed

[a777pilot]

the constitution says you're supposed to count all persons for representation though, not just permanent residents or citizens

Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed

Who knew there would be tens of millions of illegals? I would think that an AG in say Iowa or Oklahoma would use the Federal government to NOT count any illegals. Tens of millions of illegals steal the proper representations of those states with few illegals. That is just not Constitutional.

So sue, baby, sue!

[baseline bum]

Lol... assumptions make an ass out of you. I’m a Mexican-born American Citizen. :rolleyes

As long as you have an atheist in your avatar we good :bobo

[spurraider21]

Who knew there would be tens of millions of illegals? I would think that an AG in say Iowa or Oklahoma would use the Federal government to NOT count any illegals. Tens of millions of illegals steal the proper representations of those states with few illegals. That is just not Constitutional.

So sue, baby, sue!
Seems like your advocating for the “living breathing document” model of interpretation of the constitution.

[a777pilot]

Seems like your advocating for the “living breathing document” model of interpretation of the constitution.

not even close

i am advocating the enforcement of our laws

i have no problem with counting everyone so long as all those here illegally are removed

[spurraider21]

not even close

i am advocating the enforcement of our laws

i have no problem with counting everyone so long as all those here illegally are removed
you want to ignore the text of the constitution (which says all persons) because "who knew what things would be like today?" and want to interpret that clause in accordance with modern circumstances

[Pavlov]

No you are sitting there in smug cynicism trying to pretend that illegal immigration DOESN’T affect our federal elections process. You’ve dodged acknowledgement of that simple fact over and over again and still have the audacity to call me out for your own intellectual dishonesty...It doesn't affect the election process at all. It affects proportional representation just as it has from the beginning.

You have to change the Constitution if you don't like it.

Get to it.

[spurraider21]

if equal representation in congress is a really big deal to you, you should probably start with the senate anyway

[ChumpDumper]

Who knew there would be tens of millions of illegals?Who knew people who don't own land and blacks would be able to buy AR-15s?

Do you really want to go down this road?

[Spurtacular]

Who knew people who don't own land and blacks would be able to buy AR-15s?

Do you really want to go down this road?

lol wut?

[Pavlov]

lol wut?Oh, you don't understand?

lol derp

[Spurtacular]

Oh, you don't understand?

lol derp

:lol Let's not talk about 10 mil plus illegals cos blacks with AR-15s.
:lol Let's not go down that road.
:lol Psychopav Chump

[Spurtacular]

***

[a777pilot]

I think that the entire population of Mexico ought be counted towards the total population of the United
States. These population numbers should go towards the representation of the states of NY, IL, WA, OR, MA, and CA.

Then just look at all the great shit that this nation could do. End rich people. End the Second Amendment. Release all people of color from prison. Ban the use of carbon based fuels. Provide all adults with an annual income regardless of work done. Shutdown all religions except for Islam. Pay massive reparations to all African Americans for slavery.

Life would be good! America would be great!

[RandomGuy]

Census gives heavily democratic areas of the country more seats in Congress


Quantify that


I'm saying undocumented immigrants shouldn't be counted at all until they become legal residents or citizens - hence the need for a "Citizenship Question" on the U.S. Census Survey. The question is trying to be added back on the U.S. Census Survey, but that effort is now being challenged by the courts (surprise, surprise) even though it had been on every U.S. Census prior to the last one. So the question begs, why are Democrats so keen on keeping that particular question out?

So, you can't quantify it, and were talking out of your ass. Understood.

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

Then you shift the burden of proof. "why do Democrats"...


Answer me this, why do Republicans want it in the first place? Prove a need or VALID, EVIDENCE based problem.

[RandomGuy]

I think that the entire population of Mexico ought be counted towards the total population of the United
States. These population numbers should go towards the representation of the states of NY, IL, WA, OR, MA, and CA.

Then just look at all the great shit that this nation could do. End rich people. End the Second Amendment. Release all people of color from prison. Ban the use of carbon based fuels. Provide all adults with an annual income regardless of work done. Shutdown all religions except for Islam. Pay massive reparations to all African Americans for slavery.

Life would be good! America would be great!

Don't know why one would want to keep islam out of all the religions. It is just as shitty as all the other myths about magic people in the sky.

[CosmicCowboy]

So, you can't quantify it, and were talking out of your ass. Understood.

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.

Then you shift the burden of proof. "why do Democrats"...


Answer me this, why do Republicans want it in the first place? Prove a need or VALID, EVIDENCE based problem.

Seems like it would be good to have a fairly "hard" number on how many non-citizens are living in the US. Why wouldn't you want that?

[Pavlov]

:lol Let's not talk about 10 mil plus illegals cos blacks with AR-15s.
:lol Let's not go down that road.
:lol Psychopav ChumpToo complex for you. I understand.

Words are hard for you too.

[hater]

all legal american citizens with exception of prisioners serving sentence for murder or child abuse tbqh.

and those prisioners should get their voting right back provided they rejoined society after their release.

very fucking simple. not sure why this is even a topic :lol

[hater]

Seems like it would be good to have a fairly "hard" number on how many non-citizens are living in the US. Why wouldn't you want that?

"hard" number? what is that?

the number they use now is pretty fucking accurate. no need for a "hard" number unless you want it to fuck a hard numberette

[CosmicCowboy]

"hard" number? what is that?

the number they use now is pretty fucking accurate. no need for a "hard" number unless you want it to fuck a hard numberette

what number is that and how do you know it s accurate?

[Spurtacular]

Too complex for you. I understand.

Words are hard for you too.

No, you're the only idiot calling for not talking about illegal aliens based on blacks with guns.

[Spurtacular]

Seems like it would be good to have a fairly "hard" number on how many non-citizens are living in the US. Why wouldn't you want that?


It's 11 million year after year.

Signed,

Democrat

:wakeup

[Pavlov]

No, you're the only idiot calling for not talking about illegal aliens based on blacks with guns.:lol no

You're ignorant and angry about it. I get it.

[Spurtacular]

:lol no

You're ignorant and angry about it. I get it.

Generic outcry. Par.

[Th'Pusher]

what number is that and how do you know it s accurate?

The evidence says that including the citizenship question on the census results in undercounting legal and illegal residents. So, including the question is not going to result in a “hard” number. In fact, the evidence suggests including it would lead to a less accurate count. So what reason is there for including the question?

[RandomGuy]

Seems like it would be good to have a fairly "hard" number on how many non-citizens are living in the US. Why wouldn't you want that?

You wouldn't get a complete response in that case. Non-citizens would not return ANY data. The very act of asking for it, would prevent the data from being complete.

This is what the expert that Fox news chooses not to interview are saying.

[RandomGuy]

Ain't it the truth.

Who do you think ought to be able to vote in federal elections?

You still haven't provided a shred of proof for "3 million non-citizens voting". I call bullshit.

Prove that with ANY evidence. At all. Your claim, your burden of proof. I know the right wing is short on truth or facts or evidence, so I don't expect much from you.

[Pavlov]

Generic outcry. Par.
You admitted you didn't understand. Par.

[Spurtacular]

You admitted you didn't understand. Par.

False attribution. Par.

[Pavlov]

False attribution. Par.Did you understand what I said?

Yes or no.

[Spurtacular]

Did you understand what I said?

Yes or no.

I haven't indicated misunderstanding about anything, d-bag.

[Pavlov]

I haven't indicated misunderstanding about anything, d-bag.So you declare yourself present for that question.

OK, what did I mean when I mentioned the groups that can own assault-type weapons?

Show your complete understanding.

[Spurtacular]

So you declare yourself present for that question.

OK, what did I mean when I mentioned the groups that can own assault-type weapons?

Show your complete understanding.

Sorry, not interested in beating around the bush with you.

[Reck]

Sorry, not interested in beating around the bush with you.

Derp coming out post.

[Pavlov]

Sorry, not interested in beating around the bush with you.Derp backs down.

Again.

Par.

[Spurtacular]

Derp coming out post.

:lmao Eunuch trying to use figures of speech as proof of gayness.
:lmao Not the first time.

[Reck]

:lmao Eunuch trying to use figures of speech as proof of gayness.
:lmao Not the first time.

You dont want to beat around the bush. You want to be just behind the bush. :lmao

[RandomGuy]

Fuck you asshole! How dare you tell ME what I think. I want everyone who is capable and legal to vote, to vote if they chose to vote.

I will await your apology but I won't expect it. I rarely see liberals do the correct thing.

You seem perfectly willing with letting others tell you what to think. You can't really get mad a Pavlov about that.

Put up some proof that "millions of non-citizens voted".

[ChumpHumper]

Lol... assumptions make an ass out of you. I’m a Mexican-born American Citizen. :rolleyes

You're a Tio Tomás

[ChumpHumper]

You dont want to beat around the bush. You want to be just behind the bush. :lmao

Rubbish for the W. I do that a lot too.

[Pavlov]

All these grudge posts ain't nothing but tribute.

[ducks]

Russia and no other country should influence it
And unless you legal USA citizen you should not vote in it for sure
Which is worse then another country posting something on Facebook

[Spurtacular]

^^^

Tribute to your ability to vote present and hump legs?

:rollin

[Pavlov]

^^^

Tribute to your ability to vote present and hump legs?

:rollinIt's your quote, derp.

Do you think it applies here?

Yes or no.

[Spurtacular]

It's your quote, derp.

Do you think it applies here?

Yes or no.

Are you still throwing a tantrum?

Yes or no.

[Pavlov]

Are you still throwing a tantrum?

Yes or no.You used an alt to bump a couple of weeks-old threads after you decided to abandon the other one.

That's a tantrum, derp.

[Spurtacular]

You used an alt to bump a couple of weeks-old threads after you decided to abandon the other one.

That's a tantrum, derp.

The "alt" replied to a quote.

:lol Triggered Chump
:lol More narrative

[Pavlov]

The "alt" replied to a quote. When were the last posts in each thread, derp?

[Spurtacular]

When were the last posts in each thread, derp?

When was the "alt's" last login, dipshit?

[Pavlov]

When was the "alt's" last login, dipshit?You tell me, it's your alt.

When did you last use that alt?

[Spurtacular]

You tell me, it's your alt.

When did you last use that alt?

Check the posting history and then you'll realize you failed again.

[Pavlov]

Check the posting history and then you'll realize you failed again.I'm asking you when was the last time you used that alt.

When did you last use that alt?