If Jesus Were President Where Would He Stand On The Issues?

[jochhejaam]

(Spinoff on gtownspur's post about Jesus in the White House).
Let's see, what would Jesus's position be on today's issues?

1. For voluntary prayer and Bible classes in the Schools ("suffer the little ones to come to me and forbid them not")

2. Against abortion in almost all cases (bye-bye Roe v Wade "beautifully you were created in you mothers womb" )

3. Against hoarding great wealth (Corporate and individual greed is out "the love of money is the root of all evil) Acts 20:35

4. Against discrimination (bye-bye cronyism, racism. nepotism, political favors, etc.)

5. Against gay marriage (but has an powerful and intense spiritual love for them)

6. For a balanced budget (pork barreling is out, line item veto is used)

7. For posting the Ten Commandments everywhere (being its Author need I say more?)

8. Against taxation without represention (he encouraged those that have more to give to those that had less and what was given was accounted for in a responsible manner by those in charge of dispensing it)


Feel free to add to the list or expound it but don't even think about taking away from the list. :nope :jack :lol

[SA210]

First of all, Jesus would NOT be president.

But if Jesus were, as much as he wouln't allow abortions, neither would he go to war or have the death penalty.

Other than that, I believe Jesus would be assassinated, even again this time around because he would always help the poor. And, that's just sad.

[RandomGuy]

Jesus would be in favor of progressive income taxes.

“And he sat down over against the treasury, and beheld how the multitude cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a poor widow, and she cast in two mites, which make a farthing[1/4 penny]. And he called unto him his disciples, and said unto them, 'Verily I say unto you, This poor widow cast in more than all they that are casting into the treasury: for they all did cast in of their superfluity[abundance, excess--RG]; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living'” (Mk. 12:41-44; cf. Lk. 21:1-4).


(progessive income taxes mean that as you make more money your tax rate goes UP)

[jochhejaam]

First of all, Jesus would NOT be president.
Agreed, thread title should have been entered as "where would he stand on the issues.

[Mr. Peabody]

(Spinoff on gtownspur's post about Jesus in the White House).

4. Against discrimination (bye-bye cronyism, racism. nepotism, political favors, etc.)

5. Against gay marriage (but has an powerful and intense spiritual love for them)



These seem to contradict one another.
________
Kids nexium (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/nexium/)

[boutons]

This entire bumper-sticker bullshit of "What would Jesus do" is degrading of Jesus, His life, and teachings, and simplistically childish in the extreme.

Worst, it's a sin of pride to pretend to "know" the Mind of God. Adam got his butt kicked out for his sin of "knowledge". Serious, mature Christians have the humility and respect not to play such silly parlor games.

[gtownspur]

Jesus would be in favor of progressive income taxes.

“And he sat down over against the treasury, and beheld how the multitude cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a poor widow, and she cast in two mites, which make a farthing[1/4 penny]. And he called unto him his disciples, and said unto them, 'Verily I say unto you, This poor widow cast in more than all they that are casting into the treasury: for they all did cast in of their superfluity[abundance, excess--RG]; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living'” (Mk. 12:41-44; cf. Lk. 21:1-4).


(progessive income taxes mean that as you make more money your tax rate goes UP)
^^^^ :lol :lol :lol
in that case since the woman gave her all, then jesus approving progressive taxes, would want everything from the rich and then more. The rich guy would then have to find a loan somehow. :lol Good luck with that. I can see the bank loan officer say "No job, NO income, no collateral mr Zaccheus, sorry but Bank of Herod will have to deny your loan request." :smokin

[jochhejaam]

[QUOTE=boutons]This entire bumper-sticker bullshit of "What would Jesus do" is degrading of Jesus, His life, and teachings, and simplistically childish in the extreme.
There's nothing childish or simplistic about bringing attention to the righteousness of Christ which is what the "What would Jesus do" question does.
However your thought about it is oversimplistic and totally lacking in spiritual insight and degrading in that you pretend to have enough knowledge of Christ and his nature to qualify you as a legitimate analyizer of spiritual do's and don't's. Any talk of Christ that urges us to reflect upon his perfection in making decisions is a form of worship of Him, I'm quite sure He doesn't consider that degrading.
Go back to you profane laced infantile tirades against the President, that's where you excel.





Worst, it's a sin of pride to pretend to "know" the Mind of God. Adam got his butt kicked out for his sin of "knowledge".
You're in dire need of an education in the difference between knowing and speculating. Maybe Mr. Dictionary is in the office today.

[RandomGuy]

^^^^ :lol :lol :lol
in that case since the woman gave her all, then jesus approving progressive taxes, would want everything from the rich and then more. The rich guy would then have to find a loan somehow. :lol Good luck with that. I can see the bank loan officer say "No job, NO income, no collateral mr Zaccheus, sorry but Bank of Herod will have to deny your loan request." :smokin

This is not as laughable as you seem to think.

Jesus understood the truth in that material things are transitory and meaningless in the end. You can't take it with you, and God doesn't give a rat's ass how much you are worth at the end of your life, merely that you were good and decent while living.

That said:

You have sadly, once again, missed the underlying concept. Not only that you have tried to set up a straw man. Sorry, I ain't gonna let you get away with that logical fallacy.

Jesus understood intuitively what you do not: "marginal income".

What the rich gave meant little to them. They had what they needed to live and thrive and then some. They gave of this excess.

There is an income level for any country at any time at which you have all the food, shelter, clothing that you need to physically survive. Beyond this point, you are going to add things that are not 100% necessary for sustaining life. Any income earned over that is "marginal", that is you will not be buying shoes , or enough food, you will be buying better shoes, better food, better shelter.

This is what progressive income taxes are based on. People making substantially more than they need to survive are taxed based on this concept.

[gtownspur]

These seem to contradict one another.
What gay marriage and discrimination? Just like sex offender and discrimation, :rolleyes. Gay marriage is a sin of action and not of pigmentation or eye color. If all discrimination is un ethical,.. you then slip into relativity.

Discrimination is wrong when it is used to deny some ones basic freedom. Gays wanting marraige cannot argue the same. Marriage has always been in a hetero religous context. Had it been practiced by society as non gender then you'd have a reason to boot.

[gtownspur]

This is not as laughable as you seem to think.

Jesus understood the truth in that material things are transitory and meaningless in the end. You can't take it with you, and God doesn't give a rat's ass how much you are worth at the end of your life, merely that you were good and decent while living.

That said:

You have sadly, once again, missed the underlying concept. Not only that you have tried to set up a straw man. Sorry, I ain't gonna let you get away with that logical fallacy.

Jesus understood intuitively what you do not: "marginal income".

What the rich gave meant little to them. They had what they needed to live and thrive and then some. They gave of this excess.

There is an income level for any country at any time at which you have all the food, shelter, clothing that you need to physically survive. Beyond this point, you are going to add things that are not 100% necessary for sustaining life. Any income earned over that is "marginal", that is you will not be buying shoes , or enough food, you will be buying better shoes, better food, better shelter.

This is what progressive income taxes are based on. People making substantially more than they need to survive are taxed based on this concept.

Sorry Random, i respect you alot. But the message of Christ in that verse was simple. It was that sacrificing and giving out of your heart was worth more than any gold, not that the more gold you give becuase your rich, meant that your were more honorable. This message was intended to be understandable to a young child. A young child would of not come out reading this verse wanting to vote for progressive taxes.

The message was that the rich guy gave less because it was no sacrifice. THe woman on the other hand gave less than the rich but more in heart because it was done in a pure heart.

[gtownspur]

Random, please show me with exegis (dont just tell me,) how this verse is about marginal income.

[FromWayDowntown]

1. For voluntary prayer and Bible classes in the Schools ("suffer the little ones to come to me and forbid them not")

So then you're saying He'd have no problem with the Supreme Court's decisions concerning school prayer, since those decisions have never struck down the right of individual students to engage in voluntary prayer or Bible study in public schools? Those decisions only forbid the school from endorsing the activity or officially devoting school time to it (neutrality).

[Spurminator]

If Jesus had wanted to be President,. or hold any other office, He would have. He didn't, so your premise favoring Theocratic government based on how He might govern is flawed.

[FromWayDowntown]

Discrimination is wrong when it is used to deny some ones basic freedom. Gays wanting marraige cannot argue the same. Marriage has always been in a hetero religous context. Had it been practiced by society as non gender then you'd have a reason to boot.

You're talking about two different things, gtown.

Marriage is an institution of both the State and the Church. I don't think anyone would seriously argue that the Church could prohibit same-sex marriages -- the Constitution doesn't apply in churches, which allows churches to be as inclusive or discriminatory as they wish in terms of the dogma they preach. Certainly, it is clear that marriage in the religious context can (and maybe even should) be left exclusively for the union of a man and a woman.

The question, I think, is whether the State can act the same way. The 14th Amendment guarantees the Equal Protection of the laws to every citizen of every state. The provision can't mean literally what it says, because otherwise, a state couldn't prohibit felons from voting or put age limits on certain activities. There are obviously limits and certain different standards that apply to different contexts. But as a general principle, the Equal Protection Clause is understood to prohibit a State from denying a fundamental right to any citizen (again, there are minor exceptions, such as denying felons the franchise).

The right to marry one person has been understood to be a fundamental right. So, if the State can't deny a fundamental right to a person and marriage is a fundamental right, what is the legal basis (not the religious basis -- that whole separation of church and state thing) for denying someone the right to marry an individual of the same sex?

There has to be some sort of important governmental interest in prohibiting that activity and whatever limitation exists must be substantially related to achieving that interest.

If the State can articulate an important interest in limiting same-sex marriage, the second question is easily answered. But I have yet to hear any argument as to what important governmental interest is served by prohibiting same-sex marriages.

And, by the way, the law doesn't prohibit homosexual marriages and doesn't allow all heterosexual marriages -- there is no doubt that the law permits a homosexual man can marry a homosexual woman; the law would prohibit a heterosexual man from marrying a heterosexual man.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Jesus would be a half Puerto Rican (with that name what else could you expect), half Palestinian long-haired hippie. He'd spend most of his time drinking wine, and living from welfare since he was forced to close his craftsman carpenter job due to unfair competition from multinational corporations.

[mookie2001]

he would be for war without end
for sure

[danyel]

7. For posting the Ten Commandments everywhere (being its Author need I say more?)

Just wanted to clearify this point, Jesus did not write the Ten Commandments, according to the bible they were given to Moses in Mount Sinai after the jews left Egypt.

[jochhejaam]

So then you're saying He'd have no problem with the Supreme Court's decisions concerning school prayer, since those decisions have never struck down the right of individual students to engage in voluntary prayer or Bible study in public schools? Those decisions only forbid the school from endorsing the activity or officially devoting school time to it (neutrality).
Oh, I think he'd have a problem with that fwd.
I'll say that He would want teaching of Himself and His Word to be given to all children who want it during prime school time, why wouldn't he?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

That can be defined as so "separation of Church and State" only in the context of not establishing a State run Religion. It was meant to keep governments meddling, controlling hand from infringing on our religious freedom, not to keep Christian influences out of the lives of our children who spend a large portion of their lifetimes in public education. It was never intended to keep the children in public schools from practicing their religion openly in schools during school hours.
It's called electives, allow the children / parents to decide if they'd like to participate or not.

[FromWayDowntown]

It was never intended to keep the children in public schools from practicing their religion openly in schools during school hours.
It's called electives, allow the children / parents to decide if they'd like to participate or not.

Yeah, well the United States Supreme Court has never disagreed with that premise. Constitutionally, students are permitted to practice their religion during school hours. If a school administrator stops a child from praying or reading the Bible or talking about religion with his or her friends, then the administrator is violating the child's rights. The Supreme Court's decisions make that very, very clear.

What the Supreme Court has also said, though, is that the school cannot provide a platform for the conveyance of religious messages and it cannot organize or offer religious activities for students. If students wish to convey messages on their own, their Free Exercise rights permit them to do so and again, a refusal to allow that conveyance is a constitutional violation (as long as the student isn't violating other school rules). If the students wish to organize a religious group and use school facilities to meet, that is constitutionally permissible, too (though the school can limit the meeting times to before or after school hours).

What more do you want? I mean, do you want public schools to offer whole courses on religion? If so, how do you account for the diversity of religious viewpoints? Do you have a class that caters to Christian beliefs, but no similar class for Jewish or Muslim or Hindu students? If so, why? Do you have similar classes for atheists and agnostics? I mean, if the idea is to allow religious instruction during school hours (which I would argue is constitutionally infirm) how do you facilitate all viewpoints? Or do you just not worry about those who don't share your Christian views?

[SA210]

Alot of people in the Bush administration who supoosedly praise Jesus, would actually hate Jesus' beliefs if Jesus were alive today.....hypocrites.

[jochhejaam]

[QUOTE]What more do you want? I mean, do you want public schools to offer whole courses on religion?
I'm sure I stated as much. There's a serious morality problem in our Country and at last look it was because of the actions of real-live human beings who have gone through a Public Education system that has attempted to remove every vestige of morality from within its confines for a generation or two.
They've done us a real favor, ay?




If so, how do you account for the diversity of religious viewpoints? Do you have a class that caters to Christian beliefs, but no similar class for Jewish or Muslim or Hindu students?
School vouchers that allow parents to send their children to the schools of their choice including private religiously affiliated schools. After all, religious poeple pay the bulk of the taxes. (most people declare a religious preference)




Do you have similar classes for atheists and agnostics?
Electives, not going to the classes should satisfy the athiests and agnostics.

[jochhejaam]

Alot of people in the Bush administration who supoosedly praise Jesus, would actually hate Jesus' beliefs if Jesus were alive today.....hypocrites.
There probably are, would you care to provide some of the "lot" by name and explain why they would hate his beliefs?

[scott]

If Jesus ran for office, he'd be accused of being a liberal socialist and wouldn't even win his party's nomination.

[SA210]

There probably are, would you care to provide some of the "lot" by name and explain why they would hate his beliefs?

Well, Bush is a liar, and Jesus wouldn't lie,

Bush and his pals don't like helping the poor, Jesus does.

Both of those reasons alone;

all of a sudden they would say Jesus is worse than Clinton and alot of nonsense like that. But since Jesus is not here, they will lie and say they worship him.

Baloney.

[SA210]

If Jesus ran for office, he'd be accused of being a liberal socialist and wouldn't even win his party's nomination.

and I'd go further and say Jesus would probably be assassinated. No joke.

[RandomGuy]

Sorry Random, i respect you alot. But the message of Christ in that verse was simple. It was that sacrificing and giving out of your heart was worth more than any gold, not that the more gold you give becuase your rich, meant that your were more honorable. This message was intended to be understandable to a young child. A young child would of not come out reading this verse wanting to vote for progressive taxes.

The message was that the rich guy gave less because it was no sacrifice. THe woman on the other hand gave less than the rich but more in heart because it was done in a pure heart.


Yup. I agree 100%.

Young children don't have to formulate tax policy though.

Adults take that understanding a step further and realize that asking someone with a lot of income to pay back into society isn't that much to ask because they aren't giving of the stuff they need to survive. That is the heart of the moral reasoning underlying progressive income taxes.

[RandomGuy]

Well, Bush is a liar, and Jesus wouldn't lie,

Bush and his pals don't like helping the poor, Jesus does.

Both of those reasons alone;

all of a sudden they would say Jesus is worse than Clinton and alot of nonsense like that. But since Jesus is not here, they will lie and say they worship him.

Baloney.

I agree. I find the conservative war on the poor to be the height of hypocrisy.

At every turn "the poor" are demonised for one thing or another. I have met no few people who would call themselves "christians" and then turn around and almost literally spit on people who have little or no wealth. Such attitudes are the worst sort of spirtual stuntedness.

[smeagol]

Jesus would have to change so many things. We humans have fucked this World up like nobody's business.

[SA210]

I agree. I find the conservative war on the poor to be the height of hypocrisy.

At every turn "the poor" are demonised for one thing or another. I have met no few people who would call themselves "christians" and then turn around and almost literally spit on people who have little or no wealth. Such attitudes are the worst sort of spirtual stuntedness.

Very true, and when you say this, they get very upset and deny it or just ignore the issue altogether.

[gtownspur]

I agree. I find the conservative war on the poor to be the height of hypocrisy.

At every turn "the poor" are demonised for one thing or another. I have met no few people who would call themselves "christians" and then turn around and almost literally spit on people who have little or no wealth. Such attitudes are the worst sort of spirtual stuntedness.

Rich people would pay most of the tax burden in either a flat tax or progressive tax shceme, so your whole premise is flawed. You still didnt prove that Jesus would prefer a progressive tax code.

[SA210]

I'm not commenting on a progressive tax code, because it is obvious that Jesus would help the poor, so whatever programs or codes that may intail, the poor are definitely on Jesus' agenda, even though he would never be president.

And again, I say,

for that reason, he would be assassinated. Very sad...

[RandomGuy]

Rich people would pay most of the tax burden in either a flat tax or progressive tax shceme, so your whole premise is flawed. You still didnt prove that Jesus would prefer a progressive tax code.


:lol

Heh, unless I can ask the man himself about it, that won't happen.

BUT

I can infer from his statements in the Bible, that progressive income taxes would definitely be What Jesus Would Do.

I can find other bits that support this thesis...

[to the Rich young man]
Mark 10: 21-25
"One thing you lack: go and selll all you possess, and give it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow ME."
But at these words his face fell, and he went away much grieved, for he was one who owned much property.

Is there any doubt to anyone that Jesus put little value on wealth or earthly possessions?

Flat taxes would end up having the same progressive nature as our current system anyways, so this may be a bit of a pointless exercise.

[Extra Stout]

A government based upon the teachings of Jesus is self-contradictory, given that he stated repeatedly that his kingdom was not of this world.

But if humans were to set up a government based upon his teachings, it would most closely resemble a cross between theocracy and communism. Of course, in order for that to work in a practical sense, humans would need to be perfectly virtuous. And in a case where humans are perfectly virtuous, there is no need for government in the first place, and in the event there were government, any kind you pick would work. Anarchy/monarchy/democracy/whatever would all work the same because all people would have the mind of God in their decisions. It would all work the same.

All people would live in community with one another. There would be no walls between us. We would not draw distinctions based upon anything. Each person would be our neighbor. We would take only what we needed to survive, and share all other possessions in common. We would live simply. All of our striving would be based upon the glory of God and the good of our neighbors. There would be no injustice. There would be no crime. Any problems that emerged would be handled with unanimous cooperation from the community.

And we would need no human authority to tell us to live this way.

Of course, this is not the reality of humanity. It is not the reality of this world.

[SWC Bonfire]

A government based upon the teachings of Jesus is self-contradictory, given that he stated repeatedly that his kingdom was not of this world.



Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s


He pretty much took himself out of the government business.

[batman2883]

if jesus was president his last name would be BUsh for Bush =the man

[bigzak25]

Alot of people in the Bush administration who supoosedly praise Jesus, would actually hate Jesus' beliefs if Jesus were alive today.....hypocrites.

who are you SA210? that would call others hypocrites.

have you ever said one thing, done another?



Well, Bush is a liar, and Jesus wouldn't lie,

Bush and his pals don't like helping the poor, Jesus does.

Both of those reasons alone;


who are you SA210? that you can call others liars.

have you ever told a lie?

and when was the last time YOU helped the poor?


and I'd go further and say Jesus would probably be assassinated. No joke.


at least you know your history. Jesus was murdered when he was here as a man. When he comes back again? Man will bow down.

Many are correct that Jesus would not be President, as he is KING, and His Kingdom is not of the earth, but the earth, of His Kingdom.

But for the point of this thread, what would be Jesus viewpoint on the issues mentioned? I believe that it is a very Good thread for discussion. :tu

[RandomGuy]

Who am I to say all these things? I may not be SA210, but I am but a flawed man who can see injustice and know it for what it is.

I am not stoning anyone to death, I am calling out those who would perpetrate evil in the world with impunity. Anything less would be less than worthy of the life and intellect I have been given.

There is a balance between giving back to the society that you live in and striving for individual accomplishment.

If I am work hard, am lucky, and or smart, I should do well in this life. That is individual accomplishment.

On the same token, I am not an island. I owe a debt/duty to the society that I live in. Part of that duty is to pay a share of taxes. If I am blessed with an "abundance" it is only fair that my share be larger in real and proportionate terms than those who are less well off.

Progressive taxes are simply an outgrowth of this philosophy, and I agree with the underlying premise, so I agree with the policy.

(edited content slightly and fixed a typo)

[bigzak25]

I agree. I find the conservative war on the poor to be the height of hypocrisy.

At every turn "the poor" are demonised for one thing or another. I have met no few people who would call themselves "christians" and then turn around and almost literally spit on people who have little or no wealth. Such attitudes are the worst sort of spirtual stuntedness.


the people you speak of are representatives of Man.

they are NOT representatives of Jesus.

going to Church is like going to school.

it does not necessarily mean that you have passed all the tests.

Man is sinful by nature. We are ALL GUILTY.

Such is the nature of the beast.

but even so, Judge others only as you would Judge yourself.

if one follows the above rule,
they will find themselves not wanting to Judge others at all.

[RandomGuy]

My point exactly.

[SA210]

.

[SA210]

who are you SA210? that would call others hypocrites.

have you ever said one thing, done another?




who are you SA210? that you can call others liars.

have you ever told a lie?

and when was the last time YOU helped the poor?




at least you know your history. Jesus was murdered when he was here as a man. When he comes back again? Man will bow down.

Many are correct that Jesus would not be President, as he is KING, and His Kingdom is not of the earth, but the earth, of His Kingdom.

But for the point of this thread, what would be Jesus viewpoint on the issues mentioned? I believe that it is a very Good thread for discussion. :tu

Have I said one thing and done another?

Saying you believe in Jesus and what he stands for and doing another; especially when you hold a position in high government is alot more than saying one thing and doing another.


BigSac, Have you ever told a lie? How about a lie to the american people that would send thousands to their death? ( very un-Jesus like)

BigSac, when was the last time I helped the poor?

In fact, I do so much work and help for the poor that it would surprise you, that you would even question this with the confidence you had. As if i don't help the poor.

If you look into another thread, "A. business leaders plan to check into finance options to keep Saints" you would find how I am invloved and have been involved in the Victoria Courts Civil battle in making sure our nations homeless, working poor, and disadvantaged have a home to live.

My resume in some of my non profit involvement:

Board Member 2 years, Bexar County Legal Aid (legal representation for low income Texans)

San Antonio Food Bank
San Antonio Fair Housing Council
Vice President, Victoria Courts Residents Council
Donated to area schools from a Restaurant I managed
Assist "TLIHIS" "Texas Low Income Housing Information Services"
annual MLK march
annually help organize the "Cesar Chavez March for Justice"
Feed the homeless downtown and anywhere possible whenever possible.
Civil litigation against HUD for mismanagement of funds for public housing, Section 8 and mixed income housing for low income people.

Have forced the San Antonio Housing Authority to change policy in it's practice of segregated housing practices, to promote integrated housing developments within it's low income properties.

And I'm still in my mid 20's.

BigSac, does that even scratch the surface for you?

Who are YOU BigSac? and when was the last time YOU helped the poor?

[RandomGuy]

I will be doing Volunteer Income Tax Preparation this spring... :)

Gawd, I can't wait to get a job, so I can take time from the stupid extra-curricular clubs that look good on resumes and start doing some good like, Habitat for Humanity.

I hear USAA is going to get into that, so I am hoping my interview with them panned out.

[SA210]

I'm currently trying to help a non profit group who helps people pay their bills as well, to help from getting their utilities from being disconnected or help paying rent, so they won't get evicted.

[bigzak25]

BigSac, Have you ever told a lie? How about a lie to the american people that would send thousands to their death? ( very un-Jesus like)

you know, I understand what you are saying. and I did in fact, help vote Bush back into office. but i have heard new viewpoints recently, and i can tell you today that I question Bush more now than i ever have before. I see the Good in his actions. I see the bad that also results. I would like to know what he feels HIS justifications are, but I think that is on a need to know basis. I am at ease that he is a follower of Jesus. President Bush is not perfect, NONE OF US ARE, but I pray for him and his decisions. And I admire his steadfastness (others will call it stubborness) in the face of adversity.



BigSac, when was the last time I helped the poor?

In fact, I do so much work and help for the poor that it would surprise you, that you would even question this with the confidence you had. As if i don't help the poor.

If you look into another thread, ".A. business leaders plan to check into finance options to keep Saints" you would find how I am invloved and have been involved in the Victoria Courts Civil battle in making sure our nations homeless, working poor, and disadvantaged have a home to live.

My resume in non profit involvement:

Board Member 2 years, Bexar County Legal Aid (legal representation for low income Texans)

San Antonio Food Bank
San Antonio Fair Housing Council
Vice President, Victoria Courts Residents Council
Donated to area schools from a Restaurant I managed
Assist "TLIHIS" "Texas Low Income Housing Information Services"
annual MLK march
annually help organize the "Cesar Chavez March for Justice"
Feed the homeless downtown and anywhere possible whenever possible.
Civil litigation against HUD for mismagaement of funds for public housing, Section 8 and mixed income housing for low income people.

Have forced the San Antonio Housing Authority to change policy in it's practice of segregated housing practices, to promote integrated housing developments within it's low income properties.

And I'm still in my mid 20's.

BigSac, does that even scratch the surface for you?



very impressive. your accomplishments and good deeds and continued fight for the less fortunate serve as a light for me. I want to do as you do and will be a proud follower of the examples you have laid before me, before the whole forum. I say these things with admiration and respect for you, my friend. i sense that we are on the same team, the same path, even though you are obviously much further ahead than I.



Who are YOU BigSac? and when was the last time YOU helped the poor?

that is a good question, and deserves a good answer.

I am currently an unemployed man of 31 years of age living in a small room in the upstairs of my wife's mother's cousin's house in Pomona, CA.

I am/was a liar, a cheater, a luster, a drunkard, a stoner, a worshipper of false idols, a blasphemer, and overall just a low down dirty piece of nothing.

Today? I am still dirty. But many of my evil ways have changed because I have willed them to change. Today? I am a piece of something.

when wast the last time I helped the poor?

today. right now. I helped myself when I read your post. I was poor and now I am enlightened. I am still poor, but you have helped me. I thankyou for that. Thanks.

[Marcus Bryant]

If Jesus stood for office then he'd get very little support. The left, though supportive of his admonishment to 'love all' would be troubled by the restrictions he advocated in one's life. The right would go for his teachings that emphasize personal responsibility but would be troubled by the notion of forgiveness as a matter of offical policy.

And I think everyone would have a hard time turning their focus away from the material.

-MB

[SA210]

you know, I understand what you are saying. and I did in fact, help vote Bush back into office. but i have heard new viewpoints recently, and i can tell you today that I question Bush more now than i ever have before. I see the Good in his actions. I see the bad that also results. I would like to know what he feels HIS justifications are, but I think that is on a need to know basis. I am at ease that he is a follower of Jesus. President Bush is not perfect, NONE OF US ARE, but I pray for him and his decisions. And I admire his steadfastness (others will call it stubborness) in the face of adversity.



very impressive. your accomplishments and good deeds and continued fight for the less fortunate serve as a light for me. I want to do as you do and will be a proud follower of the examples you have laid before me, before the whole forum. I say these things with admiration and respect for you, my friend. i sense that we are on the same team, the same path, even though you are obviously much further ahead than I.



that is a good question, and deserves a good answer.

I am currently an unemployed man of 31 years of age living in a small room in the upstairs of my wife's mother's cousin's house in Pomona, CA.

I am/was a liar, a cheater, a luster, a drunkard, a stoner, a worshipper of false idols, a blasphemer, and overall just a low down dirty piece of nothing.

Today? I am still dirty. But many of my evil ways have changed because I have willed them to change. Today? I am a piece of something.

when wast the last time I helped the poor?

today. right now. I helped myself when I read your post. I was poor and now I am enlightened. I am still poor, but you have helped me. I thankyou for that. Thanks.

Well, we completely disagree on Bush,
but I thank you for the compliments. Helping the poor is a passion I've had since childhood.
However I don't see Bush as a help in that quest or a "real" follower of Jesus. But thank you very much.

[Duff McCartney]

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a494/a494.gif

[SWC Bonfire]

Render unto Jimcs50 the things which are Jimcs50's...

[Ocotillo]

http://webpages.charter.net/micah/repjesus86.png

[jochhejaam]

Gawd, I can't wait to get a job, so I can take time from the stupid extra-curricular clubs that look good on resumes and start doing some good like, Habitat for Humanity.
I hear USAA is going to get into that, so I am hoping my interview with them panned out.

Hope you get it. :tu

[bigzak25]

Well, we completely disagree on Bush,
but I thank you for the compliments. Helping the poor is a passion I've had since childhood.
However I don't see Bush as a help in that quest or a "real" follower of Jesus. But thank you very much.



you see, this is the question I pose to you, as I have asked myself.

what about the poor in Iraq?

do you not believe that they will be better off and have a brighter future

with Saddam Hussien removed from power?

do you value American life over Iraqi life?

I value all life. and I agree with the fact that people that do evil deeds should face judgement.

IF it comes to light that Bush led our Country to War for many more Evil Reasons than for Good ones? I won't fear the truth. IF this war was motivated by 100% Oil, Military, Corporate Greed, then I will mourn, but not for long...as, the Iraqi people will still be FREE!

Does the END justify the MEANS?

Everyone will have their own opinion.

If the Iraqi children have a brighter future, a chance at a real life?

I know what my opinion will be.

would you pick Saddam over Bush?

who would you rather live under the authority of?

Thanks in advance, man. :tu

Anyone else, please give your answer to that question as well if you so choose. Thanks!

[bigzak25]

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a494/a494.gif


it's not too late for you Duffman.

why don't you LOVE YOURSELF!!!

what is your pain?

who mind fucked you?

forgive them. forgive yourself.
I love you too man.
Now put the gun down and wake the fuck up brother.

[Ocotillo]

you see, this is the question I pose to you, as I have asked myself.

what about the poor in Iraq?

do you not believe that they will be better off and have a brighter future

with Saddam Hussien removed from power? No, not really.

do you value American life over Iraqi life?

I value all life. and I agree with the fact that people that do evil deeds should face judgement. Have you seen the Iraqi casualties? Didn't Abu Graib smack of meet the old boss, same as the old boss?

IF it comes to light that Bush led our Country to War for many more Evil Reasons than for Good ones? I won't fear the truth. IF this war was motivated by 100% Oil, Military, Corporate Greed, then I will mourn, but not for long...as, the Iraqi people will still be FREE!Curious sort of freedom.

Does the END justify the MEANS?

Everyone will have their own opinion.Indeed.

If the Iraqi children have a brighter future, a chance at a real life?

I know what my opinion will be.

would you pick Saddam over Bush?

who would you rather live under the authority of? Neither, how about Kerry?

Thanks in advance, man. :tu No problem bro.

Anyone else, please give your answer to that question as well if you so choose. Thanks!

[Triumph]

kerry has no spine. no wonder you like him, you didn't take a stand and answer the question posed...you are just like Kerry.

but Godbless you bro. :tu

[Ocotillo]

Bush has no brain Is that why you like him? We would be better off with Kerry in the White House.

I am blessed thank you very much, cleansed by the blood of the Lamb.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

25,000 Iraqis have died in the last 2 years, that's a lot more than saddam ever killed, ( so no I dont think they'll be better off)

[RobinsontoDuncan]

http://search.csmonitor.com/2005/1026/p07s01-woiq.html


What the US death toll in Iraq reveals

A new poll shows that 53 percent of Americans say the war wasn't worth it.

By Dan Murphy | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

BAGHDAD – Sometime in the coming days, the United States military will probably report the 2,000th American military death of the Iraq war.
While in some ways an arbitrary milestone, the tragic figure only tells part of the story when it comes to the human costs and human successes - both foreign and local - of the war.


E-mail this story


Write a letter to the Editor


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Permission to reprint/republish




Perhaps the most striking statistic from this war, compared with any other conflict in US history, shows troops today have a much better chance of surviving if wounded. This is because of vast improvements in body armor and strides in battlefield medicine.

For instance, the ratio of deaths to serious injuries in Iraq is less than half what it was in World War II. As recently as Vietnam, 28 percent of Americans hurt in action died. In Iraq, the ratio is 11 percent. In all, about 15,000 Americans have been wounded in combat here, about half of them seriously enough to go home.

What may be most telling about the number of deaths is whether it creates a major shift in American public opinion, which has largely been tolerant of the loss of life in Iraq.

"By any historical standards the casualties are incredibly low,'' says Anthony Cordesman, a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington and a former US Defense Department official. "But America has changed. On the one hand, Americans don't have the stakes where their sons and daughters were subject to the draft. On the other, we have a media and a people that have been educated to believe in a precision, almost bloodless form of war."

This milestone will be visited by both antiwar protesters and war supporters who say that the dead should be honored by finishing the job. Who wins that debate will hinge on how Americans answer the following questions: Has the cost been worth it? Is America willing to pay much more?

Mr. Cordesman says at this time, the next few months will determine whether the military deaths will eventually become a rallying point for those who want America out of Iraq.

"There's nothing magic about any given number of casualties, but what virtually any serious study of this shows is that Americans will tolerate casualties if they believe the conflict is needed, well managed, and there's a real purpose in continuing it,'' he says. "It seems obvious from public opinion polls that fewer and fewer Americans believe that."

Improved rates of survival also mean that there are more amputees coming home. On a US base in Baquba, Iraq, recently, an Iraqi interpreter said he really missed his best friend in the army, a young woman lieutenant he served with. Asked what happened to her, he pulls from his wallet a snapshot of a young woman posing defiantly with the prosthesis for her right arm.

While hard data aren't available on the number of amputees, the issue has led to a boom in research and development of advanced prosthetics in the US, most funded by the US Army. Amputees are now being fitted with artificial legs, that have computer chips that ease movement and develop a sort of artificial "muscle-memory."

Also frequently neglected is looking at the war's cost to Iraqis. Roughly 25,000 Iraqi civilians have died in the course of the war, and this year has been particularly deadly for Iraqi police and soldiers, who patrol the streets of Iraq without the armored vehicles, medical expertise, and heavy weaponry that US forces rely on.
Since the war began, about 3,300 Iraqi soldiers and police have been killed, 2,100 this year alone, according to a report from the Center for Strategic and International Studies released this week. The Iraqi Interior Ministry refuses to say how many police have been wounded.

Three police interviewed in Baghdad Tuesday have lost 12 coworkers since the war began. "Of course I'm afraid - working as a policeman makes me an enormous target,'' says Amar Hasan, young cop guarding an interior ministry building. "But I'm not going to quit. We have to do this."

Cordesman's data show that the US death rate is very low for a war of this size. But US support continues to slide. A Harris Interactive poll published in Tuesday's Wall Street Journal found that 53 percent of Americans now think invading Iraq was the "wrong thing to do." That's the first time that number has risen above 50 percent in the poll. The same poll in September found 49 percent of Americans opposed.

[SA210]

you see, this is the question I pose to you, as I have asked myself.

what about the poor in Iraq?

do you not believe that they will be better off and have a brighter future

with Saddam Hussien removed from power?

do you value American life over Iraqi life?

I value all life. and I agree with the fact that people that do evil deeds should face judgement.

IF it comes to light that Bush led our Country to War for many more Evil Reasons than for Good ones? I won't fear the truth. IF this war was motivated by 100% Oil, Military, Corporate Greed, then I will mourn, but not for long...as, the Iraqi people will still be FREE!

Does the END justify the MEANS?

Everyone will have their own opinion.

If the Iraqi children have a brighter future, a chance at a real life?

I know what my opinion will be.

would you pick Saddam over Bush?

who would you rather live under the authority of?

Thanks in advance, man. :tu

Anyone else, please give your answer to that question as well if you so choose. Thanks!

I value all life. But who are you to make people face judment in war and killing?

Iraqi's will not be free, and Bush is in this for evil and greed.
So what punishment should he face?

Will I pick Saddam over Bush? You've got to be kidding.
I'd rather have someone who doesn't say "internetsss" as my President, someone who can be a president and not send us to war with lies.

The poor in Iraq? Yea, I'm sure Bush is doing this for the poor in Iraq. He doesn't even care about the poor here at home. :rolleyes

How many of the poor in Iraq have we bombed? Did they face their judgement?

Do I feel they will be better off with Saddam removed from power? NO.

I feel we will be better off when Bush is removed from power.

[gameFACE]

Jesus would be a half Puerto Rican (with that name what else could you expect)
Well his first name could be Murray.

[gtownspur]

Jesus is for virtous charity. Being forced to be charitous has no virtue. Jesus supporting a proggressive tax code seems a little too much wishful thinking on your part. Giving to charity and establishing a tax code that punishes pursuit of happiness is totally all different. Another thing to consider is that the poor dont pay taxes.

[SA210]

^^^ The poor don't pay taxes?
:rolleyes

[Marcus Bryant]

One wonders if the president who decided to invade Iraq was pro-choice and pro-gay marriage if anyone on the left would give two flips about the poor of Iraq.

[Oh, Gee!!]

These seem to contradict one another.


trouble maker

[Oh, Gee!!]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but a Mexican will never be president.

[xrayzebra]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but a Mexican will never be president.


You are right, he will be an American of Mexican Heritage. Just like the rest of our Presidents came from some foreign background. The only requirement is to be born in the U.S. of A.

[Oh, Gee!!]

You are right, he will be an American of Mexican Heritage. Just like the rest of our Presidents came from some foreign background. The only requirement is to be born in the U.S. of A.


It will never happen. And the "foreign backgrounds" of all of our former presidents have been european.

[Mr. Peabody]

It will never happen. And the "foreign backgrounds" of all of our former presidents have been european.

Of course it will happen. Haven't you been watching the West Wing?
________
SICK FROM WELLBUTRIN (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/wellbutrin/)

[Oh, Gee!!]

Of course it will happen. Haven't you been watching the West Wing?


yeah, your dad is like totally gonna win

[Mr. Peabody]

Of course it will happen. Con. Santos has all the momentum. Havent you been watching the West Wing?

Or did you mean a Mexican will never be president in real life? If that's your argument, then I agree with you.
________
Prilosec side effect (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/prilosec/)

[Extra Stout]

It will never happen. And the "foreign backgrounds" of all of our former presidents have been european.Yes, eventually there will be a President of Latino heritage, and eventually there will be one whose Latino background is Mexican.

Eventually nobody will find the notion any stranger than the notion of an Irish or Italian President.

Here's dirty little secret: According to the U.S. Government, most Hispanics are white people.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Of course it will happen. Con. Santos has all the momentum. Havent you been watching the West Wing?

Or did you mean a Mexican will never be president in real life? If that's your argument, then I agree with you.


I speak only in terms of "real life." What is this "West Wing" of which you speak?

[Mr. Peabody]

Here's dirty little secret: According to the U.S. Government, most Hispanics are white people.

I wish the parents of the girls I dated in high school felt the same way....
________
Herbal Vaporizers (http://johan-luis.tumblr.com/)

[Oh, Gee!!]

Yes, eventually there will be a President of Latino heritage, and eventually there will be one whose Latino background is Mexican.

Eventually nobody will find the notion any stranger than the notion of an Irish or Italian President.

Here's dirty little secret: According to the U.S. Government, most Hispanics are white people.


OMG!!! He'll like totally steal all the furniture.

and

WOO-HOO, I'm white. Where's my money?

[Mr. Peabody]

OMG!!! He'll like totally steal all the furniture.

and

WOO-HOO, I'm white. Where's my money?

Either that or he'd have half his family crashing with him at the White House.
________
Volcano Vaporizer (http://volcanovaporizer.net/)

[Mr. Peabody]

And Air Force 1 would have an Aztec Warrior carrying a dead maiden painted on the side of it.
________
WEB SHOWS (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

[Mr. Peabody]

And the Secretary of State would be called the "Esecretary of State"
________
Extreme vaporizer price (http://www.vaporizers.net/)

[Mr. Peabody]

What else?
________
Hyde Park Residence 2 Condo Pattaya (http://pattayaluxurycondos.com)

[Oh, Gee!!]

Cars and roosters in the front lawn

[Oh, Gee!!]

He'd paint the house light blue with white trim

[Oh, Gee!!]

His first lady would be his "main ruka" (sp?)

[Mr. Peabody]

There would be paintings of the Virgin Mary all over the White House.

White House staffers would have to drive around looking for Barbacoa on Sunday mornings.

The President's uncle Chuey would get drunk and embarrass everyone that the White House Christmas Party.
________
California dispensaries (http://california.dispensaries.org/)

[Oh, Gee!!]

He'd stab eveyone with his "filero."

[Oh, Gee!!]

Weed would be leaglized, but only "schwag." The logic being that if you can afford hydro, you're probably stuck-up.

[Mr. Peabody]

He couldn't work on weekends because he'd always have a wedding, baptism or quinceanera to go to.
________
Magic Flight Launch Box Review (http://vaporizer.org/reviews/)

[Extra Stout]

Sangria at every state dinner, with Abuelita as White House chef.

The Presidential limo would have the President's last name spelled on the back window.

Pigs' feet would get a federal subsidy.

Every year, the lighting of the White House luminarias would be highly anticipated.

The President's 50 closest relatives all would live in the White House.

The First Lady would hang up laundry in the backyard.

"Lowrider" would be the new National Anthem.

The President would wear a big-ass red, white, and blue sash in public.

Republicans would come out against global warming with the rallying cry, "The white people are melting!"

[Oh, Gee!!]

Republicans would come out against global warming with the rallying cry, "The white people are melting!"


HA! We'd feel comfortable though

[Oh, Gee!!]

He'd ban car insurance.

[Mr. Peabody]

The Presidential limo would have the President's last name spelled on the back window.



Damn, that was a good one. I can't believe I missed it.
________
Web Shows (http://livesexwebshows.com/)

[Oh, Gee!!]

He'd replace the stars and stripes with a big-ass Cowboys flag

[Extra Stout]

The next national park would be a driveway in Las Cruces with an oil stain that looks like the Virgin Mary.

[bigzak25]

Big Props to ohGee, Peabody, and Stout for bringing laffs to this thread...:lmao

that's good shit guys...

i don't know if i missed any, hope i don't plagarize...

not only does the limo have the name on the back, but don't forget the dingleballs, twice pipes, and hydraulics...also, He would be the driver...window all the way down, but head barely visible...very very small steering wheel.

another limo would be on the lawn, on blocks of course.

there would be many many dogs running around the lawn...and many more strays...

of course, the whitehouse would be tagged, and have murals...you guys got that already...

did you get the Secret Service peeps being dressed in Zoot Suits as per Blood in, Blood Out?

death penalty out...knife up the ass american me style in.

Ask not what your pinche country can do for u...Ask what you can do for your pinche country...VIVA LA RAZA!!!

i do believe that unfortunately, there will be haters. I can see Ginofan already in an ivory tower somewhere with a sniper rifle...:cry

don't kill him Ginofan...

You guys hit the nail on the head, I cannot wait for the Presidential Barbacoa and Torts...with Big Red or RC Cola...it is the ONLY way. ohh...shit...and Pandulce on DEMAND...

oh and only white people can mow the lawn and trim the fuckin hedges...

his cabinet will consist of the following...

Tommy Chong,
Tom Hanks,
Charlie Sheen,
Harrison Ford,
Cheech Marin,
Paul Rodriguez,
Dave Chapelle,
Bill Cosby,
that badass mutherfucker with the knives from Desperado...
oh, and cannot forget Condi...:lol


also, forget the formal name...just call him Bucho. :tu


as a footnote, i must say I am really enjoying the freedom that the new screen names have acheived. that humor was there the whole fuckin time and your just now sharing it at full force?

bout time guys. :tu

hey peabody, you and I must play chess as soon as i get these computers over here up and running...or at a gtg in the future...i might be in for christmas, not sure about thanksgiving...so we'll see when K makes a gtg, or if she has the time to make one...it doesn't matter where, i'll bring the board brother...:tu

[Jelly]

don't get me wrong. I love Jesus as the Son of God, but he would make a lousy ass president. First, I'm pretty sure he'd force us to start sharing everything and turn us into a communist country. And all you staunch right-wing Texans entertaining the idea of a President Jesus, keep in mind, He'd probably make you stop executing all those retarded kids. Yeah...doesn't sound so peachy now does it?

(just a joke, people)

(although it's true, President Jesus would not allow executions. Sorry Texas :depressed )

[Mr. Peabody]

hey peabody, you and I must play chess as soon as i get these computers over here up and running...or at a gtg in the future...i might be in for christmas, not sure about thanksgiving...so we'll see when K makes a gtg, or if she has the time to make one...it doesn't matter where, i'll bring the board brother...:tu

You might have me confused with another. However, I am up for a game of chess whenever. It's been awhile since I last played (2 or 3 years), but I always enjoy a good game and good conversation.
________
PAXIL PROBLEMS (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/paxil/)

[bigzak25]

don't get me wrong. I love Jesus as the Son of God, but he would make a lousy ass president. First, I'm pretty sure he'd force us to start sharing everything and turn us into a communist country. And all you staunch right-wing Texans entertaining the idea of a President Jesus, keep in mind, He'd probably make you stop executing all those retarded kids. Yeah...doesn't sound so peachy now does it?

(just a joke, people)

(although it's true, President Jesus would not allow executions. Sorry Texas :depressed )

i know your are joking, as you said, but i must speak on this...

Jesus would not force us to do anything. He would guide us. Show us the way. Then it would be upto us to follow or not. How can you be so sure that Jesus would stop the death penalty? Obviously, Thou Shalt Not Kill.
BUT, he allowed his own execution, did he not? He had the power to stop it at anytime, but he allowed it for a greater purpose. :)

[SA210]

^^^ it was God's will, that's why Jesus didn't stop it. :rolleyes

[Yonivore]

Uh guys...Jesus IS President.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

Uh guys...Jesus IS President.

In that case, we need Judas and Pontius Pilate to show up soon.

Yeah, that was a Pat Robertson remark but opposite, I wonder how some people that defended him feel now.

[gtownspur]

^^nOthing anymore different than advocating the assasination of Milosevic. Chavez is no saint. WHo gives a rats ass.

[bigzak25]

^^^ it was God's will, that's why Jesus didn't stop it. :rolleyes


hey, no shit sherlock. what's with the roll eyes, you thought you were the only one that knew that? :lol

fact is, Jesus had the power. he accepted his fate, as you said, cuz it was the Father's will. :tu

[SA210]

^^^ No, I'm sure you knew that. It's not news.

I'm sure you understand the point, that even though Jesus would never be president, that if he were, he definitely would not support the death penalty. But you search for comprimising Bush's evil doing, by in a way saying that his lies to go to war are justified if Iraq is liberated, even though the war was based on lies and it has killed and injured thousands of Americans and even more abraod.

All evil, all lies ,all deceit.

Governor Bush, a follower of Jesus Christ? I think not.

[bigzak25]

I'm sure you understand the point, that even though Jesus would never be president, that if he were, he definitely would not support the death penalty. But you search for comprimising Bush's evil doing, by in a way saying that his lies to go to war are justified if Iraq is liberated, even though the war was based on lies and it has killed and injured thousands of Americans and even more abraod.

All evil, all lies ,all deceit.

Governor Bush, a follower of Jesus Christ? I think not.


I agree, of course Jesus would not be a supporter of the death penalty. as a matter of fact, my viewpoints on the death penalty have changed as well.

i'm not Jesus though. I still want the worst of the worst sent straight to hell.
the multiple, intentional, no remorse murderers, the rapists and any, and i mean any mother fucker that touches children.

otherwise? yeah, lets just lock other other ones up. fix the security so there is NO chance of escape. throw a bible in their cell and give them 3 squares and a window. no tv, not without earning it as a special priveledge. 1 hour of exercise a day. enough is enough.

and i have now change my viewpoints on abortion as well. just say no.

'oh, but a woman should have a right to choose!'

well, unless she was raped? she chose when she spread'em. i know it sounds crass, but that shit is the troof!

now, if you want to spew your bullshit about Bush's evil doing, show the forum more facts and less biased regurgitated bullshit.

'there were no weapons! where are the weapons!'

people are weapons. money is a weapon, cuz well financed people can facilitate any smuggling and training of terrorists. Sadaam hated the US if you recall. He had much money if you remember. Osama calls up Sadaam, says, hey mon, howabout you spot me some cash so we can blow up the whitehouse...

'how much and when do you need it...'

not to mention the fact, THAT AS MUCH WORK FOR THE POOR AS YOU CLAIM TO DO, the FACT REMAINS...YOU SIMPLY DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE IRAQI PEOPLE, THEIR FREEDOM, THEIR FUTURE.

sad really. no wonder your screenname is sa210. how generic can you get.

oh,and by the way, since i AM a follower of Jesus, let me apologize in advance for my preceding outburst. i'm not perfect, you know...:lmao


I think not.

you really hit the nail on the head with that quote...i'd put it in my sig if i wasn't such a non-conformist...:lol

-----------------------------------
EDIT:

i just thought about it...i'm too harsh with my judgement of abortion.

i hate it and am against it will all my will...

but i ask all the pro-choice peeps this....can we at least LIMIT IT TO ONE per woman, per lifetime...how many times does it take to learn a lesson like that?

i mean, that's what really makes me sick about abortion...the women that do it multiple times as a form of birthcontrol...that's just fuckin sick and fuckin irresponsible...

i have friends and family members that have done it...but i also have a long lost brother out there that was given up for adoption...these women don't have to KEEP the baby. firestations everywhere will take newborns, no questions asked. is 9 months too much of a price to pay? i know it's easy for me to speak on this shit when i don't ever have to make the decision...i know i'm not a woman...i may be way off base here, but i don't think so...

what say ye?

[SA210]

I agree, of course Jesus would not be a supporter of the death penalty. as a matter of fact, my viewpoints on the death penalty have changed as well.

i'm not Jesus though. I still want the worst of the worst sent straight to hell.
the multiple, intentional, no remorse murderers, the rapists and any, and i mean any mother fucker that touches children.

otherwise? yeah, lets just lock other other ones up. fix the security so there is NO chance of escape. throw a bible in their cell and give them 3 squares and a window. no tv, not without earning it as a special priveledge. 1 hour of exercise a day. enough is enough.

and i have now change my viewpoints on abortion as well. just say no.

'oh, but a woman should have a right to choose!'

well, unless she was raped? she chose when she spread'em. i know it sounds crass, but that shit is the troof!

now, if you want to spew your bullshit about Bush's evil doing, show the forum more facts and less biased regurgitated bullshit.

'there were no weapons! where are the weapons!'

people are weapons. money is a weapon, cuz well financed people can facilitate any smuggling and training of terrorists. Sadaam hated the US if you recall. He had much money if you remember. Osama calls up Sadaam, says, hey mon, howabout you spot me some cash so we can blow up the whitehouse...

'how much and when do you need it...'

not to mention the fact, THAT AS MUCH WORK FOR THE POOR AS YOU CLAIM TO DO, the FACT REMAINS...YOU SIMPLY DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE IRAQI PEOPLE, THEIR FREEDOM, THEIR FUTURE.

sad really. no wonder your screenname is sa210. how generic can you get.

oh,and by the way, since i AM a follower of Jesus, let me apologize in advance for my preceding outburst. i'm not perfect, you know...:lmao



you really hit the nail on the head with that quote...i'd put it in my sig if i wasn't such a non-conformist...:lol

On the death penalty, you say you want "the worst of the worst" people sent straight to hell, meaning you support their death. If we were just talking "politics" straight up, I could see your point. But this thread has brought Jesus Christ into the discussion of politics which is kind of an oxymoron, but we are discussing it.

So since Jesus and his beliefs are being discussed, then how how could you support death to someone when that is up to God to decide? You try to comprimise by saying it helps others in Iraq, which has yet to be proven.

And your previous posts, you seemed to be a loving person with a want for change. But soon after, your posts start having more and more profanities, hostility. Now Jesus does not like this BigSac. :td

Bush is an "evil doer" as he likes to say. Show proof? Give me a break. It's amazing how people continue to spin an obvious failure. Regurgited? Yea, you sure do.

What's wrong BigSac, why are you screaming at me, questioning the good work I do for our poor (work I "claim" to do) just because you get upset? As I said before in a post to you, Gov. Bush ( :rolleyes the humanitarian) is NOT doing this for the poor in Iraq. He doesn't even care about the poor here. And if I didn't care about the less fortunate in Iraq, I wouldn't complain about Bush killing them. Boy, they sure have a future don't they BigSac? you make alot of sense. :rolleyes

And you resort to calling me generic and criticising my screenname SA210? How generic is that? :lol :lmao

I love SA and Sa's area code is 210. :lol
Should I pick something with more "troof" as you say?
Well, since you "claim" to be a Jesus follower; you seem to start with name calling, shouting and using non Jesus type language, but you try to make it seem ok because you apologize and say we all are not perfect. Compromising again I see? That's like when Bush lied about WMD's, got caught lying, thousands dead, then said well Iraq's better off without Saddam. Comprimise. :rolleyes

But then again in this political topic, we are talking about Jesus, the real "troof".
But thank you for your insults, I appreciate it. :tu

[MiNuS]

She would be a moderate / neither Democrat nor Republican.

[cecil collins]

A socialist or anarchist, as I don't think capatilism would be up Jesus' alley.

[RandomGuy]

Honestly, I think Jesus would be about the same on the political spectrum as the Dali Lama.
http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/images/internationalchart.gif

From the political compass website.

[bigzak25]

On the death penalty, you say you want "the worst of the worst" people sent straight to hell, meaning you support their death. If we were just talking "politics" straight up, I could see your point. But this thread has brought Jesus Christ into the discussion of politics which is kind of an oxymoron, but we are discussing it.

So since Jesus and his beliefs are being discussed, then how how could you support death to someone when that is up to God to decide? You try to comprimise by saying it helps others in Iraq, which has yet to be proven.

And your previous posts, you seemed to be a loving person with a want for change. But soon after, your posts start having more and more profanities, hostility. Now Jesus does not like this BigSac. :td

Bush is an "evil doer" as he likes to say. Show proof? Give me a break. It's amazing how people continue to spin an obvious failure. Regurgited? Yea, you sure do.

What's wrong BigSac, why are you screaming at me, questioning the good work I do for our poor (work I "claim" to do) just because you get upset? As I said before in a post to you, Gov. Bush ( :rolleyes the humanitarian) is NOT doing this for the poor in Iraq. He doesn't even care about the poor here. And if I didn't care about the less fortunate in Iraq, I wouldn't complain about Bush killing them. Boy, they sure have a future don't they BigSac? you make alot of sense. :rolleyes

And you resort to calling me generic and criticising my screenname SA210? How generic is that? :lol :lmao

I love SA and Sa's area code is 210. :lol
Should I pick something with more "troof" as you say?
Well, since you "claim" to be a Jesus follower; you seem to start with name calling, shouting and using non Jesus type language, but you try to make it seem ok because you apologize and say we all are not perfect. Compromising again I see? That's like when Bush lied about WMD's, got caught lying, thousands dead, then said well Iraq's better off without Saddam. Comprimise. :rolleyes

But then again in this political topic, we are talking about Jesus, the real "troof".
But thank you for your insults, I appreciate it. :tu


SA210, 1st let me apologize, SINCERELY, for my previous outburst.

uncalled for on my part. i am ashamed of it.

since i am now back from my failed attempt at a sabbatical form Spurstalk, who can keep away, really?

anyhow, now we can discuss the issues further.

let me also say that I am sorry for my cursing. I am sorry, and quite frankly, embarrassed that i made fun of what it actually a Good screenname as I now understand it is representative of your love for the good city of San Antonio, my birthplace, and where i rightfully call my Home on Earth.

so Thanks for showing me the way brother. I especially payed attention to your 'no compromise' points.

I have taken them to heart.

I believe Jesus would be against the Death Penalty in ALL CASES.
I believe Jesus would be against Abortion in ALL CASES.

My beliefs now concur with our Savior.

Thanks again man, I hope there are no hard feelings. :tu

[jochhejaam]

I believe Jesus...
I believe Jesus...
My beliefs now concur with our Savior.
Zak, you have a good heart and you're following the right road, God Bless you my brother.

[bigzak25]

Zak, you have a good heart and you're following the right road, God Bless you my brother.


thanks man. i want to be a servant. God Bless you as well, God Bless all of us. :tu

[cecil collins]

Honestly, I think Jesus would be about the same on the political spectrum as the Dali Lama.
http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/images/internationalchart.gif

From the political compass website.

Perhaps I am Jesus.

[gtownspur]

^it doesnt matter. the dalai lama couldnt run a 7-11

[RandomGuy]

i was right between mandela and the dalai lama
not a bad place to be


My political score on the political compass test came out right on top of the dali lama's dot oddly enough.

(edited for clarity)

[RandomGuy]

^it doesnt matter. the dalai lama couldnt run a 7-11
:rollin

Neither could George Bush...

Maybe he could fire Sammy Sosa again. :lol

[gtownspur]

^How was he? LOL!