Comapring Modern day Basketball players is to 00s and 90s players is an insult tonthe modern player.

[apalisoc_9]

Aids was just talking about how KD reminds him of AI vs Kobe

Imagine comparing guys who shoot 50% at 30ppg

I still remeber those AI vs Kobe matchups where both would go for 10/30 :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Players like Lou Williams (Boobie Gibson level 12 years ago) are having career playoff performances in today's YMCAball. If you can't see how the game has been easier for perimeter chuckers, I can't help you.

[Neo.]

Players like Lou Williams (Boobie Gibson level 12 years ago)

exaggerate much?

[R. DeMurre]

Comapring tonthe indeed

[Arcadian]

Keep in mind that hand checking was allowed prior to 2004, which made everything harder for perimeter players.

[Killakobe81]

Players like Lou Williams (Boobie Gibson level 12 years ago) are having career playoff performances in today's YMCAball. If you can't see how the game has been easier for perimeter chuckers, I can't help you.

I'm not even a big AI fan but give him harden level of Ft's and he would be more efficient ...
and before analytics even if If AI could hit 30 foot 3's his coach would have told him not to ...

its a dumb comparison

[phxspurfan]

AI was the GOAT at getting his shot off, the fastest and strongest pound for pound player, the Curry of his generation. He also moved off the ball just as well. Not an insult to compare anyone to him. He changed the game with sets played today like the Iverson cut.

[lefty]

Prime Abdul Rauf would routinely light up MJ, Stockton, Payton

Fuck Stern tbh

Abdul Rauf > Curry

[Dirks_Finale]

Yup, when scores go from 78-76 to 125-120 in not that long of a period of time, relatively speaking, it has more to do with just the evolution of athletes.


Keep in mind that hand checking was allowed prior to 2004, which made everything harder for perimeter players.

[phxspurfan]

People forget about the offensive rebound shot clock reset rule. It means teams can't just hold the ball, and encourages more chucking. And Moreyball...

[313]

I'm not even a big AI fan but give him harden level of Ft's and he would be more efficient ...
and before analytics even if If AI could hit 30 foot 3's his coach would have told him not to ...

its a dumb comparison
Tired of this revisionist history. AI averaged 9+ FTAs for his career and over 11 twice.

[Spurtacular]

We all saw KD's limitations in the Paul Pierce Era.

[Killakobe81]

Tired of this revisionist history. AI averaged 9+ FTAs for his career and over 11 twice.

thats with old rules ... how many does he get now?
what about flopping era Manu?

[313]

thats with old rules ... how many does he get now?
what about flopping era Manu?
I dont understand what your point is? because if youre saying he would have got even more FTA now it doesn't help your argument. Harden averages 8.5 FTAs for his career, and this season is his first averaging 11. So before he even hits his decline, AI averages more FTAs for his career.

This myth that 90s and 2000s players didn't live at the FT line is pure nostalgia.

[HarlemHeat37]

I dont understand what you're point is? because if youre saying he would have got even more FTA now it doesn't help your argument. Harden averages 8.5 FTAs for his career, and this season is his first averaging 11. So before he even hits his decline, AI averages more FTAs for his career.

This myth that 90s and 2000s players didn't live at the FT line is pure nostalgia.

There are even people today that don't realize how much Jordan benefited from superstar calls:lol ask any Knicks or Pacers fan from that time..

[apalisoc_9]

I dont understand what your point is? because if youre saying he would have got even more FTA now it doesn't help your argument. Harden averages 8.5 FTAs for his career, and this season is his first averaging 11. So before he even hits his decline, AI averages more FTAs for his career.

This myth that 90s and 2000s players didn't live at the FT line is pure nostalgia.

Shame. Most casuals still rate AI over Harden.

Harden will forever be underrated. That one season turned him into a meme..

[Spurtacular]

There are even people today that don't realize how much Jordan benefited from superstar calls:lol ask any Knicks or Pacers fan from that time..

Don't forget the Heat (or the Suns, Sonics or Jazz).

[lefty]

Jordan is the most ref protected player in the history of the NBA and it’s not even close

[Spurtacular]

Jordan is the most ref protected player in the history of the NBA and it’s not even close

Kobe somewhat close, tbh.

[Clipper Nation]

There are even people today that don't realize how much Jordan benefited from superstar calls:lol ask any Knicks or Pacers fan from that time..
Don't forget how the league repeatedly changed the rules to pad DK's stats and make it easier for him to win. They even shortened the three-point line to inflate his career 3PT% :lol

You can always tell when someone's a casual fan from how they buy into the myths about how "tough" the '90s were.

[Neo.]

Kobe somewhat close, tbh.

not really tbh

kobe and lebron are two guys that definitely didnt get near the benefit mike got, they arguably didnt even get protected as much as kd, harden, steph and wade (prime)

[FrostKing]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/EqualScholarlyDeermouse-small.gif

[lefty]

not really tbh

kobe and lebron are two guys that definitely didnt get near the benefit mike got, they arguably didnt even get protected as much as kd, harden, steph and wade (prime)

Agreed but not sure about Steph

Sure his team gets away with a lot of illegal screens but Steph is constantly getting pushed around with no calls

[Killakobe81]

I dont understand what your point is? because if youre saying he would have got even more FTA now it doesn't help your argument. Harden averages 8.5 FTAs for his career, and this season is his first averaging 11. So before he even hits his decline, AI averages more FTAs for his career.

This myth that 90s and 2000s players didn't live at the FT line is pure nostalgia.

Apparently, you are arguing something completely different.
I never said AI didnt get Ft's he earned them by driving to the paint.He never had to flop for them.
Harlem is right MJ, AI etc ALL got superstar calls. been that way since teh 80's and is that way today.

All i am saying is that if AI drove like he did in his prime and fouls were called like today (this is not even about Harden giannis went 17 times the other night)
AI would get even more FT's but because the rules/officiating is different, we shouldn't compare them.

Based on his history i dont think AI would have adapted to modern NBA from a 3 ball/analytics perspective tbh
But ... again he would benefit huge from the spacing, lack of bigs and lack of handchecking and the even more Ft's

and I dont even like Bubba chuck all that much ...

[Killakobe81]

Kobe somewhat close, tbh.

comically bad take ... I didnt even have to refute it NEO did ...

But he was a star so of course he got calls. they all do

[ambchang]

Most ref protected players in NBA history

#1 (and not even close) Jordan

The following group:
Durant
Dirk (love him, but look at the types of shots he took and how many whistles he got)
Wade
Malone
Draymond
Harden

[UZER]

thats with old rules ... how many does he get now?
what about flopping era Manu?

Funny. I call it the Fisher flopping era.

[KobesAchilles]

Tbh I’m not seeing this great improvement that people are talking about. Y’all keep mentioning Steph and Durant. But I don’t see you mentioning Wall or Westbrook. They can’t shoot worth shit. Rubio plays in today’s NBA and he sucks too. Somehow Jokic is the most talented big man in the game. Could you imagine him guarding Shaq, Drob, Barkley, Malone or Hakeem. I will agree that the top players today can shoot better than the top players of the 90s. But everybody is so bad at defense today that I don’t think it really matters.

[Neo.]

Agreed but not sure about Steph

Sure his team gets away with a lot of illegal screens but Steph is constantly getting pushed around with no calls

he gets pushed around off ball, but you cant breathe on him any time he drives

[Neo.]

Most ref protected players in NBA history

#1 (and not even close) Jordan

The following group:
Durant
Dirk (love him, but look at the types of shots he took and how many whistles he got :cry 2006 :cry :cry)
Wade
Malone
Draymond
Harden

plz stop with revisionist history

dude got fouled plenty, people just werent used to his style of play

[Spurtacular]

not really tbh

kobe and lebron are two guys that definitely didnt get near the benefit mike got, they arguably didnt even get protected as much as kd, harden, steph and wade (prime)

Bruh, I live in the Lakers market. I know exactly how much BS Kobe got away with. He could even elbow Mike Bibby in a Game 7 and not get called. There were countless games that he had about nine fouls called on him and he ended up with three b/c the other Lakers were allowed to donate their fouls. And offense, he got all the same ghost fouls Jordan got.

:lol at you trying to proactively sperm shield for Lebron too. There's never been a player who got more fouls by virtue of just taking the ball into the paint.

[ambchang]

plz stop with revisionist history

dude got fouled plenty, people just werent used to his style of play

Not really. He got some very questionable calls. He was largely a jump shooter who somehow averaged more fta in the playoffs than the regular season. He got over 8 fta in the playoffs for years. There isn’t another jump shooter who can pull that off. Until Durant came along.

[Neo.]

Not really. He got some very questionable calls. He was largely a jump shooter who somehow averaged more fta in the playoffs than the regular season. He got over 8 fta in the playoffs for years. There isn’t another jump shooter who can pull that off. Until Durant came along.

maybe because he was more than a jumpshooter

dude for years was a beast at dribble drives, especially against other big men. That's why for a couple years, smaller guys with quick hands gave him trouble, forcing him to work on a better post game. In fact the one legged fadeaway wasn't really a consistent part of his game until Carlisle came around. He would shoot it occasionally, but not to the extent he did after Rick started coaching him

[Neo.]

Bruh, I live in the Lakers market. I know exactly how much BS Kobe got away with. He could even elbow Mike Bibby in a Game 7 and not get called. There were countless games that he had about nine fouls called on him and he ended up with three b/c the other Lakers were allowed to donate their fouls. And offense, he got all the same ghost fouls Jordan got.

:lol at you trying to proactively sperm shield for Lebron too. There's never been a player who got more fouls by virtue of just taking the ball into the paint.

Lol elbowed Bibby in game 7, but you know exactly everything about Kobe? :lmao can't even get your first fact right

Kobe got his share of superstar calls, just like any superstar, LeBron too. But neither of them were gifted calls to the extent that mike was, not particularly close either.

[Spurtacular]

Lol elbowed Bibby in game 7, but you know exactly everything about Kobe? :lmao can't even get your first fact right

Kobe got his share of superstar calls, just like any superstar, LeBron too. But neither of them were gifted calls to the extent that mike was, not particularly close either.

Game 6. Don't look for nothing wins, bruh. Not unless you want to just admit you're that desperate.

Bottom line is Kobe and MJ were gifted championships. That's pretty significant.

NBA marketing loved that 6 vs 5 sh**.

[ambchang]

maybe because he was more than a jumpshooter

dude for years was a beast at dribble drives, especially against other big men. That's why for a couple years, smaller guys with quick hands gave him trouble, forcing him to work on a better post game. In fact the one legged fadeaway wasn't really a consistent part of his game until Carlisle came around. He would shoot it occasionally, but not to the extent he did after Rick started coaching him

He’s great at handling the rock. But to say he’s an expert in dribble drive is a little of an exaggeration.

[Neo.]

He’s great at handling the rock. But to say he’s an expert in dribble drive is a little of an exaggeration.

for a 7 footer with mediocre athleticism, he was pretty expert

[ambchang]

for a 7 footer with mediocre athleticism, he was pretty expert

Oh I would say that. But the refs don't look at your mediocre athleticism or your size, the call a foul.

[Neo.]

Oh I would say that. But the refs don't look at your mediocre athleticism or your size, the call a foul.

and that has what, exactly to do with his skills as a dribble driver?

i mean i know that was the original discussion at hand, but you completely changed it by saying it was an exaggeration to say he was a beast dribble driver when attacking opposing big men

[daslicer]

Wow the shtick in this forum used to be about how 90's NBA players could not play in the current NBA. Now we have moved on to throwing '00 players underneath the bus. Can't wait to hear the next shtick 5-6 years from now which will be 2010s NBA players can't play in the modern NBA.

[ambchang]

and that has what, exactly to do with his skills as a dribble driver?

i mean i know that was the original discussion at hand, but you completely changed it by saying it was an exaggeration to say he was a beast dribble driver when attacking opposing big men

He was great for that size. But not great. So why should he get extra fta?

Getting 9 fta for a shooter is unusual. Getting extra fta in the playoffs is even more unusual.

[Joseph Kony]

the latter half of this decade has been the softest era of ball i've ever witnessed. not really impressive tbh

[Killakobe81]

Funny. I call it the Fisher flopping era.

You see you misunderstood...
Fisher didn't have a flopping era he flopped his whole career
Manu flopped a lot less once refs emphasized it imho
Fisher never did change