LeBron taking shots at Morey / Analytics?

[AlexJones]

1127698270833086464
1127706932272218113
1127699303755993089

[AlexJones]

I don't recall this cocksucker winning game 7 thanks to mid range shots down the stretch. pretty sure it was step back 3, fouled on a step-back 3, Kyrie iso fadeaway 3 (when the game was tied, even)..

[dbreiden83080]

I don't recall this cocksucker winning game 7 thanks to mid range shots down the stretch. pretty sure it was step back 3, fouled on a step-back 3, Kyrie iso fadeaway 3 (when the game was tied, even)..

But the Rockets are trying to win a championship by chucking 75 3's a game.. Not working..

[LkrFan]

I don't recall this cocksucker winning game 7 thanks to mid range shots down the stretch. pretty sure it was step back 3, fouled on a step-back 3, Kyrie iso fadeaway 3 (when the game was tied, even)..

LBJ 3
Mavs 1

:lol

[Othyus Lalanne]

1127698270833086464
1127706932272218113
1127699303755993089

Okay, out in the West the playoffs start at Game 1 of regular season Mr. I Know what i got myself into.

[lefty]

Harlem/Apa in shambles

[HarlemHeat37]

^^A man who missed the playoffs talking about analytics:lol

[ducks]

Proven fact game 6 and game 7
Three point shooting sucks

[sammy]

The Rockets will never win the Championship! Harden dribble dribble instead of letting Paul run the PG position! If ballhog would let Chris Paul run the point, he draws the defense in and then can shoot out the ball to his 3 point shooters or pass to Capela at the basket instead Harden holds onto the ball, chucks a shot which is a miss and/or rushes the shot since the shot clock is down to zero! Crappy coach is part of the problem too! They play no defense, rely on too much on Harden and live by the 3 point shot! Too much ISO play so they're done! Fire the coach and the GM! Morons the lot of them!

[Othyus Lalanne]

Proven fact game 6 and game 7
Three point shooting sucks

It's awesome in the right doses executed mostly by specialists...

[140]

Harlem/Apa in shambles
:lol

[lefty]

^^A man who missed the playoffs talking about analytics:lol
A man who has more rings than Houston :lol

[midnightpulp]

Lebron is absolutely correct. I said this in another thread about a shot Klay Thompson took in game 4. GS was down 1 with like 5 minutes to play. At this point of the game, PPS efficiency is less important than simply scoring. You'd rather attempt a shot with a 45% success rate than a shot with a 35% success rate, even if the latter is worth 50 percent more. Irishoc will understand this analogy. We know analytics has shown sacrifice bunting to be a -EV play with good hitters, but if it's the bottom of the 8th, tie game, man on 1st and 2nd with no outs, I'm calling bunt with any player who's ever lived, since scoring a run at this point is more important than playing long term percentages. Manufacturing points any way you can get them becomes more important in late-game post-season sports. At this point in the game/season, the long term analytical view should be ignored.

[Killakobe81]

A man who has more rings than Houston :lol

This.
not that bron is blameless but Lakers situation was a dumpster fire ...
why does Lebron who is almost universally known as one of teh smartest players of thsi or any era not have his views taking seriously even if you dont agree?
what doe the Lakers (and him) missing plaoffs have to dod with his basketbal intellect?

Its not like he was Magic (another high hoops IQ guy but lacks bron's overall hoops intellect) praising jimmer and random scrubs on Twitter

CP3 CJ mcCollum Kawhi and KD all have been killing it from mid range all playoffs

[R. DeMurre]

Taking the best shot is what analytics are all about. I think some people are mixing up long term and short term analytics. If you're down one with five seconds on the clock, then of course you're not going to turn down a a higher percentage midrange shot over a lower percentage three. Taking a midrange in the right situation isn't anti-analytics.

[midnightpulp]

This.
not that bron is blameless but Lakers situation was a dumpster fire ...
why does Lebron who is almost universally known as one of teh smartest players of thsi or any era not have his views taking seriously even if you dont agree?
what doe the Lakers (and him) missing plaoffs have to dod with his basketbal intellect?

Its not like he was Magic (another high hoops IQ guy but lacks bron's overall hoops intellect) praising jimmer and random scrubs on Twitter

CP3 CJ mcCollum Kawhi and KD all have been killing it from mid range all playoffs

Midrange is still a poor general strategy and will lose long term, but in late game situations, it should be used if other options are bottled up.

[HarlemHeat37]

Midrange is still a poor general strategy and will lose long term, but in late game situations, it should be used if other options are bottled up.

The analytics community isn't against taking the best shot available in those scenarios, though..

Anti-analytics people always generalize everything involving the usage of analytics:lol

I don't know why all these players are coming out against the Rockets..Houston's a good example of analytics working well today, they've overachieved with the talent on their roster..

The Warriors are a far better example of using analytics the correct way in basketball, though..

[midnightpulp]

Taking the best shot is what analytics are all about. I think some people are mixing up long term and short term analytics. If you're down one with five seconds on the clock, then of course you're not going to turn down a a higher percentage midrange shot over a lower percentage three. Taking a midrange in the right situation isn't anti-analytics.

It's funny how this simple point is even lost on the calculator heads who run front offices. Rockets continue to chuck from 3 until the buzzer. Baseball teams that are homerun centric will continue swinging big (yeah, maybe trying the sac fly, but you can tell the difference between a controlled swing and trying to mash the ball to the moon) with a man on 3rd and nobody out down a run in the 8th inning.

[midnightpulp]

The analytics community isn't against taking the best shot available in those scenarios, though..

Anti-analytics people always generalize everything involving the usage of analytics:lol

I don't know why all these players are coming out against the Rockets..Houston's a good example of analytics working well today, they've overachieved with the talent on their roster..

I actually think Morey's philosophy just isn't that great..

I agree, but the issue with that team is that they are so rigidly attached to percentage plays, they don't seem to adapt well to unique situations where the "intuitive/non-percentage" play will probably work better. The Dodgers have kind of become the Houston Rockets of baseball, with Roberts religiously adhering to his notebook (handed down to him by the front office) for any and all situations. Then when the Rockets and Dodgers get outclassed in situational play, the calculator heads blame "variance," when everyone with a pair of eyeballs knows that shot shouldn't have been taken or that reliever shouldn't have been brought in.

[HarlemHeat37]

I agree, but the issue with that team is that they are so rigidly attached to percentage plays, they don't seem to adapt well to unique situations where the "intuitive/non-percentage" play will probably work better. The Dodgers have kind of become the Houston Rockets of baseball, with Roberts religiously adhering to his notebook (handed down to him by the front office) for any and all situations. Then when the Rockets and Dodgers get outclassed in situational play, the calculator heads blame "variance," when everyone with a pair of eyeballs knows that shot shouldn't have been taken or that reliever shouldn't have been brought in.

I agree..despite being about the analytics, I've been very anti-Morey..

He's done really well with the Rockets, but he has reached his ceiling IMO..you have to be flexible when the situation calls for it .

[Killakobe81]

Lebron is absolutely correct. I said this in another thread about a shot Klay Thompson took in game 4. GS was down 1 with like 5 minutes to play. At this point of the game, PPS efficiency is less important than simply scoring. You'd rather attempt a shot with a 45% success rate than a shot with a 35% success rate, even if the latter is worth 50 percent more. Irishoc will understand this analogy. We know analytics has shown sacrifice bunting to be a -EV play with good hitters, but if it's the bottom of the 8th, tie game, man on 1st and 2nd with no outs, I'm calling bunt with any player who's ever lived, since scoring a run at this point is more important than playing long term percentages. Manufacturing points any way you can get them becomes more important in late-game post-season sports. At this point in the game/season, the long term analytical view should be ignored.

Agree 100%
KAwhi did not even shoot all that well yesterday ...
and despite Kawhi blowing past simmons (bad defense by him gotta force KL Left) he took that over the late Embiid contest.
No one on the raptors had shown awillingness to take big shots much less hit them.

A wide open danny green 3 is a higher % shot by the data but give me a KL fade away any day especially tied. Even if he had missed you just go OT anyways.

[Killakobe81]

Midrange is still a poor general strategy and will lose long term, but in late game situations, it should be used if other options are bottled up.

I get that.
But what Im saying is basketball is a game about "flow" as well as numbers.
if guys are chasing your best shooters off the 3 point line Id rather great players like KAwhi Steph Harden take the mid-range rather than have a wasted possession with a MO Harkless/Shaun Livingston (just picking a random decent starter and bench guy) ...

some anayltics guyswould rather the 30% shooter take the 3still rather than mid range especially Morey.

[midnightpulp]

I agree..despite being about the analytics, I've been very anti-Morey..

He's done really well with the Rockets, but he has reached his ceiling IMO..you have to be flexible when the situation calls for it .

I honestly think some these guys are on "the spectrum," (autism) and deviation away from supposed statistical certainty frightens them.

:lol https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-with-Autism-hate-uncertainty

And the coaches are hamstrung, because if they attempt an intuitive solution that backfires, it's probably their job.

[Clipper Nation]

I don't know why all these players are coming out against the Rockets..

They play an atrocious, unwatchable style of basketball. If it ever becomes the norm, casuals will tune out, ratings will flatline, and these players' earning potential will plummet, they might not get the big-money broadcasting jobs they want in retirement, etc.

[R. DeMurre]

"Analytics" is just a fancy sounding word for "figuring things out" using stats. Steve Nash should have been taking 10 threes a game, but he didn't because Conventional Wisdom at the time thought of the three as a novelty, which it clearly isn't. Over the long term, it just makes sense to take good threes. But even a very good three has a 40% success rate, so if you're down one or two at the end of a game, it still makes sense to look for a closer, more high percentage shot.

[midnightpulp]

They play an atrocious, unwatchable style of basketball. If it ever becomes the norm, casuals will tune out, ratings will flatline, and these players' earning potential will plummet, they might not get the big-money broadcasting jobs they want in retirement, etc.

It will, which is why I write until I'm figuratively blue in the face on here about how overpowered the 3 point shot is. There's really no counter to it. It's too statistically effective and too hard to defend. Sure, we'll get some occasional post-play and midrange shots when the situation warrants it, but the game will be dominated by 3s, even when they're not taken, since the spacing created by defending the 3 is what opens up the lane for the next most effective shot in the game: layups/dunks.

Charting the trend, the league took an average of 29 threes last season. This season, it rose to 32 per game. 10 percent increase in a season. No signs of it slowing down. As Harlem said, more and more teams will model themselves after the Rockets since it's the best way to maximize value when you don't have two or three superstar level players on the same team. Curry is the most influential player (in terms of playstyle) of the past decade, maybe since Jordan, meaning kids all over the country are emulating him, translating into more chuckers entering the game in the coming years.

I honestly think casuals love it. The NBA completely dominates social media, which is casual grand central station.

[Killakobe81]

"Analytics" is just a fancy sounding word for "figuring things out" using stats. Steve Nash should have been taking 10 threes a game, but he didn't because Conventional Wisdom at the time thought of the three as a novelty, which it clearly isn't. Over the long term, it just makes sense to take good threes. But even a very good three has a 40% success rate, so if you're down one or two at the end of a game, it still makes sense to look for a closer, more high percentage shot.

agree 100%
problem is some that are slave to the modern 2k era of hoops, that will take a transition 3 over a layup or dunk which has to have an extremely high success rate even 3 on 2 at very least you are getting Ft's which mots good players can hit at over 75%.

[Killakobe81]

For meyou drive in transition to get a layup or dunk if they stop the break then you kick out for the trailer three ...

[Killakobe81]

It will, which is why I write until I'm figuratively blue in the face on here about how overpowered the 3 point shot is. There's really no counter to it. It's too statistically effective and too hard to defend. Sure, we'll get some occasional post-play and midrange shots when the situation warrants it, but the game will be dominated by 3s, even when they're not taken, since the spacing created by defending the 3 is what opens up the lane for the next most effective shot in the game: layups/dunks.

Charting the trend, the league took an average of 29 threes last season. This season, it rose to 32 per game. 10 percent increase in a season. No signs of it slowing down. As Harlem said, more and more teams will model themselves after the Rockets since it's the best way to maximize value when you don't have two or three superstar level players on the same team. Curry is the most influential player (in terms of playstyle) of the past decade, maybe since Jordan, meaning kids all over the country are emulating him, translating into more chuckers entering the game in the coming years.

I honestly think casuals love it. The NBA completely dominates social media, which is casual grand central station.

I have seen this trend already from middle to HS level players ...

[phxspurfan]

Career loser / overrated, self-proclaimed Chosen 1 on the Twitter machine talking feats of better teams/players

[AlexJones]

Tbh though, Harden should bring this move back, it's unstoppable in crunch time as long as they don't call the push off.

1096948312832380928

[AlexJones]

But the Rockets are trying to win a championship by chucking 75 3's a game.. Not working..
Their 2nd and 3rd best players are PJ Tucker and Eric Gordon.

Chucking 75 3's a game (while GSW/KD took a lot of mid range) is the only reason they didn't get swept.

[R. DeMurre]

The word "unstoppable" is so overused. The Malone/Stockton and Nash/Amare pick & rolls were "unstoppable," and now Harden gets that label put on him all the time. Zero rings between the five of them. Defenses adjust in the playoffs and find ways to cope.

[AlexJones]

The word "unstoppable" is so overused. The Malone/Stockton and Nash/Amare pick & rolls were "unstoppable," and now Harden gets that label put on him all the time. Zero rings between the five of them. Defenses adjust in the playoffs and find ways to cope.

Yes, that is why I used the example as a COUNTER to said playoff adjustments. Since defenses are camping at 3pt line and at the rim for Harden.

[Spurtacular]

Lebron didnt even hit .500 this season, right?

[Spurtacular]

The word "unstoppable" is so overused. The Malone/Stockton and Nash/Amare pick & rolls were "unstoppable," and now Harden gets that label put on him all the time. Zero rings between the five of them. Defenses adjust in the playoffs and find ways to cope.

Probably at least four championships robbed from the people you mention, tbh.

[Killakobe81]

Probably at least four championships robbed from the people you mention, tbh.

when was Malone/Stockton "robbed"?!
Nash/Amare had a bad call go against them but no sure thing that they win vs near prime Timmy ...
I think they had a good shot but after seeing Mike D flail in multiple playoffs since then, I doubt they win ,,,

[ambchang]

when was Malone/Stockton "robbed"?!
Nash/Amare had a bad call go against them but no sure thing that they win vs near prime Timmy ...
I think they had a good shot but after seeing Mike D flail in multiple playoffs since then, I doubt they win ,,,

What he meant to say was Stockton and Nash were robbed. Like how Jimmer was robbed

[Spurtacular]

when was Malone/Stockton "robbed"?!
Nash/Amare had a bad call go against them but no sure thing that they win vs near prime Timmy ...
I think they had a good shot but after seeing Mike D flail in multiple playoffs since then, I doubt they win ,,,

Jazz put on stern's altar for magic and dad killer.

Suns robbed themselves or stern did depending on your outlook.

Dude you only have to go back to last year for the rockets. Warriors required help.