$22 Trillion in Debt.

[Big Empty]

What are the possible implications if it keeps rising? Where can we cut spending? Do we raise taxes?

[boutons_deux]

what's the problem you think you have?

Repugs' "deficits don't matter"

[ducks]

Stop investigations
Stop giving illegals money
Stop tv cable service in jails
Stop serving more the 75 years for crime just shoot them instead with bullets(cheaper then drugs)
If USA helps foreign country say ok wipe our debt we owe then we will help your country
USA first

[ducks]

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/52902851_10156109389309849_1060140328293498880_o.j pg?_nc_cat=1&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=24884376dae20359360370309da42287&oe=5D6A75B4

[CosmicCowboy]

What are the possible implications if it keeps rising? Where can we cut spending? Do we raise taxes?

There is no solution. Neither party actually gives a shit about debt anymore because we are hooked on that spending crack. We will keep doing it as long as we can still borrow money.

[boutons_deux]

Trash promised the scam tax cut would increase tax revenue but it has remained flat even as economy grows, thanks to the scam tax cut.

The government set a record with a $234 billion deficit in February

The $544 billion deficit is up 39 percent from the corresponding period one year ago. For February, the government spent $401 billion and brought in $167 billion in revenue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-government-ran-a-544-billion-deficit-over-the-first-5-months-of-the-fiscal-year/2019/03/22/932d3438-4cc8-11e9-9663-00ac73f49662_story.html?utm_term=.59d2fc260d87 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-government-ran-a-544-billion-deficit-over-the-first-5-months-of-the-fiscal-year/2019/03/22/932d3438-4cc8-11e9-9663-00ac73f49662_story.html?utm_term=.59d2fc260d87)

the oligarchy's scam tax cut is $1.5T over 10 years

[Millennial_Messiah]

What are the possible implications if it keeps rising? Where can we cut spending? Do we raise taxes?

Default on social security
Cut VA benefits. Maintain strong military/defense system, but slash benefits. Those are warriors out there, not mercenaries. Benefits/salaries etc. account for over 70% of the military budget, rather than the actual practical part of the military.
Eliminate Medicaid. Medicare stays.
Eliminate frivolous expenditures and foreign aid that is not closely vested in US interests. Commit to stop policing the world.

[Pavlov]

Default on social securityWhat does that even mean?

[Millennial_Messiah]

What does that even mean?

No more SS benefits. And from 1/1/2020 onwards, no more SS taxes because no more SS benefits. Everyone who previously paid SS taxes will just consider that as courtesy money paid to the gov't.

[Pavlov]

No more SS benefits. And from 1/1/2020 onwards, no more SS taxes because no more SS benefits. Everyone who previously paid SS taxes will just consider that as courtesy money paid to the gov't.And who enacts this law?

[Millennial_Messiah]

And who enacts this law?

Congress, and Trump signs it. Bipartisanship.

Also, place strict regulations on colleges/universities such that there is a salary cap on lecturers, execs, deans, and other staff in the schools and set a maximum price on an undergraduate education. So little to no student loans are required for a degree. But also, eliminating the Federal Pell Grant system and the FAFSA.

[Pavlov]

Congress, and Trump signs it. Bipartisanship.I'm sure they'll get right on that.

[Nbadan]

What are the possible implications if it keeps rising? Where can we cut spending? Do we raise taxes?

Social security would remain solvent for the foreseeable future by using means testing to determine the level of benefits and removing the $250K cap on income

[UnWantedTheory]

Stop investigations
Stop giving illegals money
Stop tv cable service in jails
Stop serving more the 75 years for crime just shoot them instead with bullets(cheaper then drugs)
If USA helps foreign country say ok wipe our debt we owe then we will help your country
USA first
You just knocked the debt down by about 0.3%. Keep going dicks.

[Isitjustme?]

Stop investigations
Stop giving illegals money
Stop tv cable service in jails
Stop serving more the 75 years for crime just shoot them instead with bullets(cheaper then drugs)
If USA helps foreign country say ok wipe our debt we owe then we will help your country

ducks thinks these 5 things make up 90% of the U.S. budget. true story

[AaronY]

Stop investigations
Stop giving illegals money
Stop tv cable service in jails
Stop serving more the 75 years for crime just shoot them instead with bullets(cheaper then drugs)
If USA helps foreign country say ok wipe our debt we owe then we will help your country

How can I post not post votingrepublican.jpeg every time I see him with posts like this :lol Guy thinks convicts getting cable tv is why we are $22 trillion in debt. Posts two lines blaming illegals/foreigners, talks about capital punishment, then blames the Mueller Investigation which cost less than the money it brought in :lol

It's like a random culling of Daily Wire clickbait headlines swirling around in his head at any one time and then they just spill out onto the computer in the form of a post

[Will Hunting]

You just knocked the debt down by about 0.3%. Keep going dicks.
I doubt that even makes up 0.3% :lol, I’ll bet it’s below 0.1%.

[Will Hunting]

Default on social security
Cut VA benefits. Maintain strong military/defense system, but slash benefits. Those are warriors out there, not mercenaries. Benefits/salaries etc. account for over 70% of the military budget, rather than the actual practical part of the military.
Eliminate Medicaid. Medicare stays.
Eliminate frivolous expenditures and foreign aid that is not closely vested in US interests. Commit to stop policing the world.
:lol right wing politics in a nut shell. Rather than just tax rich people the way other modern countries do, we should eliminate Medicaid and force poor people to go into bankruptcy paying for healthcare.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lol right wing politics in a nut shell. Rather than just tax rich people the way other modern countries do, we should eliminate Medicaid and force poor people to go into bankruptcy paying for healthcare.

Taxing rich people at 100% wouldn't do it. The two sides may have different priorities but neither side will ever balance the budget fo one year, much less reduce the deficit.

[Millennial_Messiah]

:lol right wing politics in a nut shell. Rather than just tax rich people the way other modern countries do, we should eliminate Medicaid and force poor people to go into bankruptcy paying for healthcare.

Bankruptcy isn't all that bad. It just means you won't be able to get a loan for 7 years.

[Spurminator]

Default on social security
Cut VA benefits. Maintain strong military/defense system, but slash benefits. Those are warriors out there, not mercenaries. Benefits/salaries etc. account for over 70% of the military budget, rather than the actual practical part of the military.
Eliminate Medicaid. Medicare stays.
Eliminate frivolous expenditures and foreign aid that is not closely vested in US interests. Commit to stop policing the world.

My favorite part of this is cutting veteran benefits but not our precious weapons, many of which we never use.

We have to make sure Raytheon still gets paid, but fuck the soldiers.

[Millennial_Messiah]

ducks thinks these 5 things make up 90% of the U.S. budget. true story

Read MY list then

[Millennial_Messiah]

My favorite part of this is cutting veteran benefits but not our precious weapons, many of which we never use.

We have to make sure Raytheon still gets paid, but fuck the soldiers.

We must maintain the #1 military force (by a large shot) in the world if we are to remain the #1 economy and #1 superpower. That is a must. Though lowering Raytheon, Martin Marietta, Lockheed Martin subsidies is an option too, if they are at all public sector. But a lot of that is private sector.

Soldiers fight for the good of their country and the intrinsic rewards that come with that, not the extrinsic stuff. Sure, free education is a good thing too, that's part of why I recommended placing an iron fist over the fucked-up university education industry.

[Isitjustme?]

Taxing rich people at 100% wouldn't do it. The two sides may have different priorities but neither side will ever balance the budget fo one year, much less reduce the deficit.

Hi. clinton and gingrich did it for like 5 years in the 1990s.

[CosmicCowboy]

And they are so old now they cant pop wood with 100mg of viagra.

Neither side will ever do it now. No matter which side they are on there are political third rails driving the deficits that are basically untouchable.

[Spurminator]

Soldiers fight for the good of their country and the intrinsic rewards that come with that, not the extrinsic stuff.

We'll see about that when you tell them to go fight without the benefits.

[Isitjustme?]

Read MY list then

I did. It was fucking stupid. Basically you said get rid of social security and medicaid which dont help nobody. Then keep a huge military and air and naval force even though a) we havent been invaded on american soil since the war of 1812, b) our main foe rides camels and hides in caves and c) we're separated from anyone who would actually harm us by another hemisphere and the atlantic and pacific oceans.

You strike me as a retarded teenager who finds old people boring and subscribes to the digital web version of whatever guns & ammo magazine is tbh

[Will Hunting]

We must maintain the #1 military force (by a large shot) in the world if we are to remain the #1 economy and #1 superpower. That is a must. Though lowering Raytheon, Martin Marietta, Lockheed Martin subsidies is an option too, if they are at all public sector. But a lot of that is private sector.

Soldiers fight for the good of their country and the intrinsic rewards that come with that, not the extrinsic stuff. Sure, free education is a good thing too, that's part of why I recommended placing an iron fist over the fucked-up university education industry.
Continuing to spend billions of dollars on tanks that literally sit in the desert for years before being decommissioned and haven’t had any notable impact in combat since WWII don’t do anything to make us the most powerful force in the world, the only reason we still buy tanks is because of the stranglehold companies like Lockheed have on Washington. The Pentagon tells Congress every year to stop spending billions on obsolete technology and they still do it.

Im also not sure what you mean by public/private sector. Over 80% of Lockheed’s revenue comes from government contracts. The company would go tits up without the retarded military spending.

Im also not sure how you can justify the morality of sending soldiers into fucked up 3rd world countries where they develop mental and physical ailments without VA benefits. The best way to cut VA spending is having less wars so you have less veterans who need to be treated for shit that happens in active combat.

[Will Hunting]

We'll see about that when you tell them to go fight without the benefits.
Or when you have a friend or family member who gets killed in a shooting because the shooter is a soldier who got back from Afghanistan and never got treated for PTSD.

I don’t think people realize how serious and common PTSD is with people who have seen active combat. Of the 3 veterans I know who served in Afghanistan or Iraq, all of them had PTSD and it’s taken years for them to get treated. Seeing your best friend’s head get blown off when he’s standing 2 feet away from you isn’t something humans are equipped to process from a mental standpoint.

[Will Hunting]

Congress, and Trump signs it. Bipartisanship.

Also, place strict regulations on colleges/universities such that there is a salary cap on lecturers, execs, deans, and other staff in the schools and set a maximum price on an undergraduate education. So little to no student loans are required for a degree. But also, eliminating the Federal Pell Grant system and the FAFSA.
Yeah great idea. Cap the salary someone with a PHD in chemical engineering can make at a university as a professor since it's not like he can go to the private sector and make more.

That definitely wouldn't lead to a massive public university brain drain and destroy the quality of education they offer.

[Pavlov]

lol fatcat professors are solely responsible for the cost of college

[Chucho]

LOL, Millennial Mesiah getting destroyed for flat out not knowing how the world works. And he claims he makes 6 figures...

[Millennial_Messiah]

lol fatcat professors are solely responsible for the cost of college


Yeah great idea. Cap the salary someone with a PHD in chemical engineering can make at a university as a professor since it's not like he can go to the private sector and make more.

That definitely wouldn't lead to a massive public university brain drain and destroy the quality of education they offer.
And the deans that make 8 figures.

How else to lower the cost of education back to reasonable levels... even say 1990s levels?

[Millennial_Messiah]

Continuing to spend billions of dollars on tanks that literally sit in the desert for years before being decommissioned and haven’t had any notable impact in combat since WWII don’t do anything to make us the most powerful force in the world, the only reason we still buy tanks is because of the stranglehold companies like Lockheed have on Washington. The Pentagon tells Congress every year to stop spending billions on obsolete technology and they still do it.

Im also not sure what you mean by public/private sector. Over 80% of Lockheed’s revenue comes from government contracts. The company would go tits up without the retarded military spending.

Im also not sure how you can justify the morality of sending soldiers into fucked up 3rd world countries where they develop mental and physical ailments without VA benefits. The best way to cut VA spending is having less wars so you have less veterans who need to be treated for shit that happens in active combat.

yes, isolationism is good, but you have to be prepared for the Pearl Harbors and 9/11s and offer nothing but swift and merciless retribution.

[Chucho]

:lol right wing politics in a nut shell. Rather than just tax rich people the way other modern countries do, we should eliminate Medicaid and force poor people to go into bankruptcy paying for healthcare.

Yeah, but no other 1st world country is within 200 Million of us in population and as we know, the rich tire of paying the bulk of taxes and find ways out of not paying their fair share. That's what most of us would do, it's human nature to want to protect and keep what you've worked for and earned. Hard to fault people for being human.

The easiest way would be to make lobbying illegal and regulate healthcare costs. Wont work in politics as no one gets to Washington without being backed by some interest. It wont change. American politics need to change, not who's in charge, for some real forward progress to ever be made.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I did. It was fucking stupid. Basically you said get rid of social security and medicaid which dont help nobody. Then keep a huge military and air and naval force even though a) we havent been invaded on american soil since the war of 1812, b) our main foe rides camels and hides in caves and c) we're separated from anyone who would actually harm us by another hemisphere and the atlantic and pacific oceans.

You strike me as a retarded teenager who finds old people boring and subscribes to the digital web version of whatever guns & ammo magazine is tbh
Absolutely stupid post. You say we haven't been invaded on US soil since 1812, but you forgot 1941 and 2001 existed, neither of which happened when the US were actively involved in an overseas war??

[Millennial_Messiah]

The easiest way would be to make lobbying illegal and regulate healthcare costs.

I do fully agree with these 2.

[CosmicCowboy]

Our reaction to 9/11 was totally fucked up and there will never be another Pearl Harbor.

[Will Hunting]

Absolutely stupid post. You say we haven't been invaded on US soil since 1812, but you forgot 1941 and 2001 existed, neither of which happened when the US were actively involved in an overseas war??
I wouldn’t call either 9/11 or Pearl Harbor an invasion. One was a suicide attack and the other was basically a hit and run. Neither could reasonably be considered an attempt to occupy American land.

[Pavlov]

And the deans that make 8 figures.Which deans makes $10,000,000+/year?

Post your list.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I wouldn’t call either 9/11 or Pearl Harbor an invasion. One was a suicide attack and the other was basically a hit and run. Neither could reasonably be considered an attempt to occupy American land.

It's still an attack on US soil that cost innocent American lives, each of which is worth ten million foreign lives. Their endgame goal (both the 1940s Hitler and today's Jihadi Muslims) was/is indeed to conquer the world, including the West, with their ideology and governance so therefore they do qualify as precipitants to an invasion.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Which deans makes $10,000,000+?

Post your list.
hell, the new UNT one makes half of that

Well, Brian Moynihan makes 17 Million, I know that for a fact because it was posted on the company's intranet

[Pavlov]

It's still an attack on US soil that cost innocent American lives, each of which is worth ten million foreign lives. Their endgame goal (both the 1940s Hitler and today's Jihadi Muslims) was/is indeed to conquer the world, including the West, with their ideology and governance so therefore they do qualify as precipitants to an invasion.https://media.giphy.com/media/p9RwE6iEwXU64/giphy.gif

[CosmicCowboy]

I wouldn’t call either 9/11 or Pearl Harbor an invasion. One was a suicide attack and the other was basically a hit and run. Neither could reasonably be considered an attempt to occupy American land.

Technically Japan did occupy the Aleutians which are part of Alaska, but your point is still valid as to a military invasion of the lower 48. We are basically being invaded by Central America, however...they just don't wear uniforms.

[Millennial_Messiah]

https://media.giphy.com/media/p9RwE6iEwXU64/giphy.gif

Don't be stupid. The japs were Hitler's proxy just like Israel is for us today, or Hezbollah for Iran.

[Pavlov]

Hell, the new UNT one makes half of thatWhich UNT deal makes $5 million+?


Well, Brian Moynihan makes 17 Million, I know that for a fact because it was posted on the company's intranetWho does he work for?

[Pavlov]

Don't be stupid. The japs were Hitler's proxy just like Israel is for us today, or Hezbollah for Iran.lol no

That's probably the stupidest thing I've read today.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Bank of America isn't a university.

On the contrary. I got paid to learn 100x more about java and computer science at Bank of America than I did in 3 years of PAYING to study computer science at UNT. So, Bank of America was the far better educator.

College professors are mostly lazy old liberal white men who get TAs who make $10 an hour to do their dirty, boring work and get paid $250k to show up to what amounts to a part-time, easy job. I think the max salary for a university professor should be in the range of $80k + cost of living adjustment. It's hard to learn shit from a shitty college course but you need that degree to get jobs so you've got to be real here.

[Millennial_Messiah]

lol no

That's probably the stupidest thing I've read today.

:lol calling a truth-bomb stupid.

[Pavlov]

On the contrary. I got paid to learn 100x more about java and computer science at Bank of America than I did in 3 years of PAYING to study computer science at UNT. So, Bank of America was the far better educator.

College professors are mostly lazy old liberal white men who get TAs who make $10 an hour to do their dirty, boring work and get paid $250k to show up to what amounts to a part-time, easy job. I think the max salary for a university professor should be in the range of $80k + cost of living adjustment. It's hard to learn shit from a shitty college course but you need that degree to get jobs so you've got to be real here.When did you learn a bank is a university?

Which UNT dean makes $5 million+?

Which deans makes $10 million+?

[Will Hunting]

On the contrary. I got paid to learn 100x more about java and computer science at Bank of America than I did in 3 years of PAYING to study computer science at UNT. So, Bank of America was the far better educator.

College professors are mostly lazy old liberal white men who get TAs who make $10 an hour to do their dirty, boring work and get paid $250k to show up to what amounts to a part-time, easy job. I think the max salary for a university professor should be in the range of $80k + cost of living adjustment. It's hard to learn shit from a shitty college course but you need that degree to get jobs so you've got to be real here.

No one with a PHD in anything business or STEM related is taking a job for $80k a year. They can go into the private sector and make several times that much. There's a reason they make $250k and it's not because the university just feels like being generous. The university is competing with the private sector for highly educated, intelligent people and needs to pay accordingly.

I'm all for changing the system that makes it impossible to get rid of a professor with tenure, but capping the salary of professors at $80k is moronic.

[Millennial_Messiah]

No one with a PHD in anything business or STEM related is taking a job for $80k a year. They can go into the private sector and make several times that much. There's a reason they make $250k and it's not because the university just feels like being generous. The university is competing with the private sector for highly educated, intelligent people and needs to pay accordingly.

I'm all for changing the system that makes it impossible to get rid of a professor with tenure, but capping the salary of professors at $80k is moronic.
First of all, you're talking about ~15% of university professors with the "business and STEM related" talk. You think the average PhD in English, History, or Art is making anything close to $80k in the private sector? You've got to be kidding.

Second of all, there isn't a huge market in the private sector for PhDs that aren't professional degrees (doctors, pharmacists, lawyers, dentists etc). A person with a PhD even in software engineering or data science makes about $10k/year more on average than someone with the same years of experience and just a bachelor's degree in the same subject. Master's degree, only around $5k/year more than a bachelor's in the tech industry and same years of experience. Keep in mind, you're also wasting precious years in your youth getting advanced degrees when you could be working collecting years of work experience which is far more valuable to recruiters.

:lmao No tech firm is paying an extra $50k or $100k to a skilled job candidate for having a PhD instead of a bachelor's or master's degree. That's ridiculous.

[Will Hunting]

First of all, you're talking about ~15% of university professors with the "business and STEM related" talk. You think the average PhD in English, History, or Art is making anything close to $80k in the private sector? You've got to be kidding.

Second of all, there isn't a huge market in the private sector for PhDs that aren't professional degrees (doctors, pharmacists, lawyers, dentists etc). A person with a PhD even in software engineering or data science makes about $10k/year more on average than someone with the same years of experience and just a bachelor's degree in the same subject. Master's degree, only around $5k/year more than a bachelor's in the tech industry and same years of experience. Keep in mind, you're also wasting precious years in your youth getting advanced degrees when you could be working collecting years of work experience which is far more valuable to recruiters.

:lmao No tech firm is paying an extra $50k or $100k to a skilled job candidate for having a PhD instead of a bachelor's or master's degree. That's ridiculous.
The History professors aren’t making $250k a year, they make a lot closer to $80k because that’s their market value. There aren’t history or art professors making $250k a year.

I also never said there’s a need for people with a PHD just because of the PHD either, I’m saying people with PHDs are more often than not intelligent and capable of performing at a high level in the private sector, which is why companies are interested in hiring them.

[Millennial_Messiah]

The History professors aren’t making $250k a year, they make a lot closer to $80k because that’s their market value. There aren’t history or art professors making $250k a year.

I also never said there’s a need for people with a PHD just because of the PHD either, I’m saying people with PHDs are more often than not intelligent and capable of performing at a high level in the private sector, which is why companies are interested in hiring them.

See that's the thing, the vast majority of big name public and private universities have a flat (huge) salary for professors across all subjects in the university, tiered only based on tenure/years of experience and title ("Senior Professor" > "Professor" > "Lecturer" > "Adjunct", etc, each tier up gets a substantial raise) but the reason it costs $30K a year to go to a basic in-state state public school is because the salaries usually aren't determined by subject and department, and they all get healthy double-inflationary raises every year, so as an in-state public university student you pay $30K/year (and rising; including room and board) regardless if you're an art major, history major, humanities major, African studies major, hospitality major, English-Spanish dual major, business major, math major, or CS/software engineering major.

If your first paragraph was true, tuition and fees would be much cheaper for arts and humanities majors, but they aren't so it isn't.

[Pavlov]

See that's the thing, the vast majority of big name public and private universities have a flat (huge) salary for professors across all subjects in the university, tiered only based on tenure/years of experience and title ("Senior Professor" > "Professor" > "Lecturer" > "Adjunct", etc, each tier up gets a substantial raise) but the reason it costs $30K a year to go to a basic in-state state public school is because the salaries usually aren't determined by subject and department, and they all get healthy double-inflationary raises every year, so as an in-state public university student you pay $30K/year (and rising; including room and board) regardless if you're an art major, history major, humanities major, African studies major, hospitality major, English-Spanish dual major, business major, math major, or CS/software engineering major.

If your first paragraph was true, tuition and fees would be much cheaper for arts and humanities majors, but they aren't so it isn't.Where are the $10,000,000+ deans and the $5,000,000+ UNT dean again?

[Will Hunting]

See that's the thing, the vast majority of big name public and private universities have a flat (huge) salary for professors across all subjects in the university, tiered only based on tenure/years of experience and title ("Senior Professor" > "Professor" > "Lecturer" > "Adjunct", etc, each tier up gets a substantial raise) but the reason it costs $30K a year to go to a basic in-state state public school is because the salaries usually aren't determined by subject and department, and they all get healthy double-inflationary raises every year, so as an in-state public university student you pay $30K/year (and rising; including room and board) regardless if you're an art major, history major, humanities major, African studies major, hospitality major, English-Spanish dual major, business major, math major, or CS/software engineering major.

If your first paragraph was true, tuition and fees would be much cheaper for arts and humanities majors, but they aren't so it isn't.
You're simply wrong. This is easily verifiable:

https://facultysenate.unt.edu/sites/default/files/copy_of_unt_faculty_salary_data_as_of_4-1-2018.xlsx

Here is the average pay for all professors (associate, assistant, etc.) by department:





Accounting
$179,387.12


Fin, Insur, Real Estate & Law
$159,720.82


Mktng, Logistics, & Operations
$145,439.71


Info Tech & Decision Sci
$144,153.04


Management
$139,215.40


Materials Science & Engineer
$134,177.71


Chemistry
$130,052.25


Electrical Engineering
$123,990.06


Computer Science & Engineering
$123,709.25


Biological Sciences
$121,777.73


Economics
$117,593.08


Engineering Technology
$113,144.45


International Studies
$112,735.68


Mechanical & Energy Engineer
$107,080.65


Physics
$105,305.24


Political Science
$105,184.26


Psychology
$98,174.08


Conducting & Ensembles
$97,058.69


Information Science
$95,979.37


Audiology & Speech - Lang Path
$93,851.19


Learning Technologies
$93,746.60


Kinesiolgy, Hlth Promo, & Rec
$91,525.32


Mathematics
$90,250.93


Merch & Digital Retailing
$88,492.40


Criminal Justice
$88,492.32


Media Arts
$88,433.13


Instrumental Studies
$87,895.34


History
$87,004.53


Public Admin
$86,684.08


Keyboard Studies
$86,241.32


Philosophy & Religion
$84,700.88


Technical Communication
$84,273.76


Sociology
$83,865.76


Geography
$83,845.11


Hospitality & Tourism
$83,204.99


Educational Psychology
$82,858.69


Anthropology
$82,434.14


World Lang, Lit, & Cultures
$82,179.51


Rehabilitation and Health Serv
$81,420.38


Teacher Education & Admin
$81,335.15


Dance & Theatre
$81,129.65


Vocal Studies
$80,707.86


Mayborn Sch of Journal-Gen
$80,244.83


Linguistics
$80,190.31


Counseling & Higher Education
$79,696.30


English
$79,167.00


Composition Studies
$78,163.61


Jazz Studies
$78,061.19


Design
$77,363.86


Spanish
$77,055.69


Music Hist, Thry, & Ethnomusic
$74,899.14


Studio Art
$74,022.13


Art Education & Art History
$72,758.61


Music Education
$71,741.11








You're basically wrong in every respect. The average accounting professor making more than 2x the average music education professor isn't solely due tenure and years of experience.

None of them average even close to $250k either, but we knew that was bullshit.

[Millennial_Messiah]

You're simply wrong. This is easily verifiable:

https://facultysenate.unt.edu/sites/default/files/copy_of_unt_faculty_salary_data_as_of_4-1-2018.xlsx

Here is the average pay for all professors (associate, assistant, etc.) by department:





Accounting
$179,387.12


Fin, Insur, Real Estate & Law
$159,720.82


Mktng, Logistics, & Operations
$145,439.71


Info Tech & Decision Sci
$144,153.04


Management
$139,215.40


Materials Science & Engineer
$134,177.71


Chemistry
$130,052.25


Electrical Engineering
$123,990.06


Computer Science & Engineering
$123,709.25


Biological Sciences
$121,777.73


Economics
$117,593.08


Engineering Technology
$113,144.45


International Studies
$112,735.68


Mechanical & Energy Engineer
$107,080.65


Physics
$105,305.24


Political Science
$105,184.26


Psychology
$98,174.08


Conducting & Ensembles
$97,058.69


Information Science
$95,979.37


Audiology & Speech - Lang Path
$93,851.19


Learning Technologies
$93,746.60


Kinesiolgy, Hlth Promo, & Rec
$91,525.32


Mathematics
$90,250.93


Merch & Digital Retailing
$88,492.40


Criminal Justice
$88,492.32


Media Arts
$88,433.13


Instrumental Studies
$87,895.34


History
$87,004.53


Public Admin
$86,684.08


Keyboard Studies
$86,241.32


Philosophy & Religion
$84,700.88


Technical Communication
$84,273.76


Sociology
$83,865.76


Geography
$83,845.11


Hospitality & Tourism
$83,204.99


Educational Psychology
$82,858.69


Anthropology
$82,434.14


World Lang, Lit, & Cultures
$82,179.51


Rehabilitation and Health Serv
$81,420.38


Teacher Education & Admin
$81,335.15


Dance & Theatre
$81,129.65


Vocal Studies
$80,707.86


Mayborn Sch of Journal-Gen
$80,244.83


Linguistics
$80,190.31


Counseling & Higher Education
$79,696.30


English
$79,167.00


Composition Studies
$78,163.61


Jazz Studies
$78,061.19


Design
$77,363.86


Spanish
$77,055.69


Music Hist, Thry, & Ethnomusic
$74,899.14


Studio Art
$74,022.13


Art Education & Art History
$72,758.61


Music Education
$71,741.11







You're basically wrong in every respect. The average accounting professor making more than 2x the average music education professor isn't solely due tenure and years of experience.

None of them average even close to $250k either, but we knew that was bullshit.

then tell me why tuition and fees are the same for every major?

[Pavlov]

then tell me why tuition and fees are the same for every major?In part because it's all subsidized by the state.

You ever get those eight figure deans' salaries?

[Will Hunting]

then tell me why tuition and fees are the same for every major?
That doesn't address anything I said.

Are you telling me that the numbers I just quoted from UNT itself are wrong :lmao

[Millennial_Messiah]

That doesn't address anything I said.

Are you telling me that the numbers I just quoted from UNT itself are wrong :lmao

tell me why tuition, fees, and room and board goes up by damn near 10% every year?

[Will Hunting]

tell me why tuition, fees, and room and board goes up by damn near 10% every year?
Answer my question first, you do this all the time where you talk out of your ass and then change the subject. Are you saying the numbers I quoted are wrong?

[Pavlov]

tell me why tuition, fees, and room and board goes up by damn near 10% every year?It's certainly not because of your made up salary numbers.

Why did you lie so hard about those?

[Millennial_Messiah]

Answer my question first, you do this all the time where you talk out of your ass and then change the subject. Are you saying the numbers I quoted are wrong?

no, I just guesstimated and went by what I overheard when I was there, but I guess they were wrong

but answer my new question now

[spurraider21]

I just guesstimated and went by what I overheard when I was there
:lmao

[Will Hunting]

no, I just guesstimated and went by what I overheard when I was there, but I guess they were wrong

but answer my new question now
So you overheard something and assumed it was true which led to you talking out of your ass. Glad we agree.

Tuition goes up because when state funding is cut tuition is what's needed to bridge the gap. It's not like there's a slush fund where your tuition dollars get used by the faculty to throw parties with hookers and cocaine.

[Pavlov]

no, I just guesstimated and went by what I overheard when I was there, but I guess they were wrong

but answer my new question nowIf you guesstimated that means you're wrong, not your fantasy eavesdropping subjects.

Which is it?

[Millennial_Messiah]

So you overheard something and assumed it was true which led to you talking out of your ass. Glad we agree.

Tuition goes up because when state funding is cut tuition is what's needed to bridge the gap. It's not like there's a slush fund where your tuition dollars get used by the faculty to throw parties with hookers and cocaine.
well yeah, state funding is why UNT is $25K and Baylor is $55K a year. But what explains why UT Austin is $32K and UH-Galveston is $20K? How about Prairie View A&M's $17K?

[Will Hunting]

Also, I know schools like Alabama make money on football, but UNT is a great example of a school that burned through tens of millions of dollars on a new stadium even though they have a football program that's never going to be a reliable source of revenue.

[Will Hunting]

well yeah, state funding is why UNT is $25K and Baylor is $55K a year. But what explains why UT Austin is $32K and UH-Galveston is $20K? How about Prairie View A&M's $17K?
Now you're just bouncing all over the place. First it was why does tuition not differ by major within the same school, then it was why do tuition prices keep going up, now you're asking why tuition differs so much between schools.

State funding was my answer with respect to why tuition at the same school keeps going up every year, which is a completely different question than why is tuition different at each school.

Do you really think state funding means that every public university should have the same tuition price?

[Pavlov]

Also, I know schools like Alabama make money on football, but UNT is a great example of a school that burned through tens of millions of dollars on a new stadium even though they have a football program that's never going to be a reliable source of revenue.

You'll get no argument from me on athletics, but you're changing the subject yet again.

[Will Hunting]

You'll get no argument from me on athletics, but you're changing the subject yet again.
I'm answer his question as to why tuition prices keep going up. 50 years ago schools like UNT weren't blowing millions of dollars trying become a football powerhouse.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Also, I know schools like Alabama make money on football, but UNT is a great example of a school that burned through tens of millions of dollars on a new stadium even though they have a football program that's never going to be a reliable source of revenue.

Especially since Fouts Field was actually on-campus and it was just perfectly fine.

Also the new UNT Union project was equally as bad, if not worse, than the Apogee project. At least the old UNT Union looked like a union. The new UNT Union, established in late 2015, resembles a small shopping mall. No fun, no home-campus feeling, no central gathering space like the old UNT union had.

(Then again, I was in Columbus last August for work and went in OSU's union and it was actually very similar to UNT's new shopping-mall union, almost identical except with red colors instead of green and difference in restaurants.)

[Pavlov]

I'm answer his question as to why tuition prices keep going up. 50 years ago schools like UNT weren't blowing millions of dollars trying become a football powerhouse.Yeah, I'm totally onboard with that. I thought he was posting that for some reason, but I see it was too logical and reasonable to be him.

[Pavlov]

Especially since Fouts Field was actually on-campus and it was just perfectly fine.

Also the new UNT Union project was equally as bad, if not worse, than the Apogee project. At least the old UNT Union looked like a union. The new UNT Union, established in late 2015, resembles a small shopping mall. No fun, no home-campus feeling, no central gathering space like the old UNT union had.

(Then again, I was in Columbus last August for work and went in OSU's union and it was actually very similar to UNT's new shopping-mall union, almost identical except with red colors instead of green and difference in restaurants.)The union actually benefits and attracts students of all kinds, so aesthetics aside....

[Spurminator]

If we had a Democrat President, the Tea Party and Freedom Caucus would be all over this instead of rallying to protect the President from having bad things said about him.

[Millennial_Messiah]

I'm answer his question as to why tuition prices keep going up. 50 years ago schools like UNT weren't blowing millions of dollars trying become a football powerhouse.

Yeah, even when UNT starts dominating shitty C-USA (maybe this year? Mason Fine's senior year so I expect us to win double figs and a bowl at minimum) but it's still a group of five football program, you don't waste 20 million and overhaul everything for that

[Millennial_Messiah]

The union actually benefits and attracts students of all kinds, so aesthetics aside....

The Union is a waste of space. Doesn't matter whether it's in Denton, Columbus Ohio or otherwise. It's not a library, it's not a computer lab, it serves no purpose except to charge kids overpriced food at shitty chains (just like in airports) on top of their overpriced tuition and overpriced books and overpriced rent at the dorms.

UNT operated without a union from 2013-2015 and everything was just fine, except for the stupid sounds of construction and blue Beck fences. They should have just made that space into a green park or a casual football field or something.

[UnWantedTheory]

I doubt that even makes up 0.3% :lol, I’ll bet it’s below 0.1%.

Most likely. I was trying to be kind to someone so obviously handicapped. :p:

[Pavlov]

The Union is a waste of space. Doesn't matter whether it's in Denton, Columbus Ohio or otherwise. It's not a library, it's not a computer lab, it serves no purpose except to charge kids overpriced food at shitty chains (just like in airports) on top of their overpriced tuition and overpriced books and overpriced rent at the dorms.

UNT operated without a union from 2013-2015 and everything was just fine, except for the stupid sounds of construction and blue Beck fences. They should have just made that space into a green park or a casual football field or something.Students buy that stuff. That's the market. I wouldn't doubt it's overpriced.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Students buy that stuff. That's the market. I wouldn't doubt it's overpriced.

whereas I would just eat sparingly that last semester, take advantage of the $5 dilapidated cafeteria hall on the west end of campus, on endless fried chicken wednesday nights, get a bulk value meal plan and pay attention to the menu's posted online at each dorm hall on each specific day. I stayed the hell away from Krispy Krunchy's, Taco Bueno, Chick Fil-A and the rest of that surcharge-overpriced fast food crap on campus. On Mondays I got fried chicken from Chicken Express (now closed) because they had the Monday $5 large combo special. On weekends I barely ate at all. Etc.

[RandomGuy]

No more SS benefits. And from 1/1/2020 onwards, no more SS taxes because no more SS benefits. Everyone who previously paid SS taxes will just consider that as courtesy money paid to the gov't.

So how many old people will literally starve to death?

[Millennial_Messiah]

So how many old people will literally starve to death?
They can take advantage of the low UE% market and go get a job, maybe a work from home job? It's 2019, after all.

Or, you know, overpopulation control. Less people = less pollution, deforestation, AGW? Right?

[RandomGuy]

No more SS benefits. And from 1/1/2020 onwards, no more SS taxes because no more SS benefits. Everyone who previously paid SS taxes will just consider that as courtesy money paid to the gov't.

It is worth noting:

SS turns a profit yearly. Drop SS taxes... Congress can't borrow funds from it, and the deficit goes UP. SS taxes are a separate fund.

[Millennial_Messiah]

It is worth noting:

SS turns a profit yearly. Drop SS taxes... Congress can't borrow funds from it, and the deficit goes UP. SS taxes are a separate fund.

okay then- fair point- Gov't can perform OMOs with banks with SS cash flow and collect interest. So leave SS alone. But there's no excuse for Medicaid except for bailing out idiot moronic over-breeders, as I've reiterated over and over again it's mostly the browns that overbreed (yes, a FEW whites too, but not many) and are the main culprits of pollution, deforestation, higher CO2 output, and AGW if you're into that.

[RandomGuy]

They can take advantage of the low UE% market and go get a job, maybe a work from home job? It's 2019, after all.

Or, you know, overpopulation control. Less people = less pollution, deforestation, AGW? Right?

"Get a job". The totally serious cure all for everything. Unless of course you are too old to see, or have enough money or physical stamina for hour long commutes. I'll be sure to pass your wisdom on to my father who was fired after he had his first heart attack, because they didn't want him on their liability policy. Maybe you can explain how he should get a job sufficient to pay for his and my mother's health care. My computer illiterate mother who can't walk across a room without being winded and panting for 4 minutes, will get a job too, I guess.

Otherwise you seem to be suggesting elderly people starving to death is your solution to some vague "overpopulation". Fuck you, I think we'll pass on that non-serious, evil solution.

[Millennial_Messiah]

"Get a job". The totally serious cure all for everything. Unless of course you are too old to see, or have enough money or physical stamina for hour long commutes. I'll be sure to pass your wisdom on to my father who was fired after he had his first heart attack, because they didn't want him on their liability policy. Maybe you can explain how he should get a job sufficient to pay for his and my mother's health care. My computer illiterate mother who can't walk across a room without being winded and panting for 4 minutes, will get a job too, I guess.

Otherwise you seem to be suggesting elderly people starving to death is your solution to some vague "overpopulation". Fuck you, I think we'll pass on that non-serious, evil solution.

I changed my mind. Leave SS alone, but change Medicare to 50% coinsurance instead of the current 80%. So when they get a supplemental commercial plan they'll be paying about the same as what a 62, 63, 64 year old would.

[midnightpulp]

okay then- fair point- Gov't can perform OMOs with banks with SS cash flow and collect interest. So leave SS alone. But there's no excuse for Medicaid except for bailing out idiot moronic over-breeders, as I've reiterated over and over again it's mostly the browns that overbreed (yes, a FEW whites too, but not many) and are the main culprits of pollution, deforestation, higher CO2 output, and AGW if you're into that.

Birth rate has flatlined in the US since the 70s, and the "brown" fertility rates are trending downward and should be at the white averages in probably a decade. I take it you guys are discussing on how to cut down the deficit? Here's a quick idea: Gut the fuckin' military. Biggest "welfare program" in human history.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Birth rate has flatlined in the US since the 70s, and the "brown" fertility rates are trending downward and should be at the white averages in probably a decade. I take it you guys are discussing on how to cut down the deficit? Here's a quick idea: Gut the fuckin' military. Biggest "welfare program" in human history.
"trending" downward doesn't mean equal to, and plus we must stop immigration, especially from countries with high/historically high birth rates. Skilled Europeans can come because they won't come in droves, etc. East Asians can come IF they are skilled because they don't breed too much. But please, diversify the tech industry, we don't need a 95% India-Indian H1B skilled tech workforce anymore. Revoke their visas and hire only US Citizens and Permanent Green Card holders. Anyone who comes and applies for any welfare program is auto-deported.

We can't "gut" the military, we need to maintain the most high tech weapons and intel in the world to remain the #1 nation in the world, or we could face unfriendly consequences from other, rival, enemy countries who *do* also have big militaries as well. We can cut VA benefits, though, just like Medicaid and lowering co-insurance pay percentages for Medicare.

[RandomGuy]

I changed my mind. Leave SS alone, but change Medicare to 50% coinsurance instead of the current 80%. So when they get a supplemental commercial plan they'll be paying about the same as what a 62, 63, 64 year old would.

People on medicare/-aid are already there because they can't afford other health insurance. All you will be doing by making health care less affordable for this population is forcing them to consume less health care, get sicker and visit the emergency room more, if not die for lack of preventive care. Emergency rooms and hospitals that are legally bound to treat people regardless of ability to pay, so those hospitals will turn around and charge health insurers more, who will, in turn, turn around and increase premiums.

Squeeze the balloon in one place, it bulges in another. Your solution ultimately would simply increase an already bloated inefficient system of risk transfer where 1/4 of all dollars spent are on administrative overhead.

Sorry, health care is where libertarian fantasies go to die. Free markets do not work for health care. The underlying things that make free markets efficient breakdown, i.e. substitution of goods, price elasticity. Universal health care, paid for by a broad tax offers the least expensive and most effective way, to provide health care.

Every other industrialized country does this. We know it is cheaper because our health care spending per capita is roughly twice that of the average.

[CosmicCowboy]

It is worth noting:

SS turns a profit yearly. Drop SS taxes... Congress can't borrow funds from it, and the deficit goes UP. SS taxes are a separate fund.

Hmmm. As I understand it there is no separate SS fund except as an accounting ledger transaction. The money goes into the general revenue fund and the funds "borrowed" from SS taxes does count against the deficit as an accounts payable. Not trying to argue with you, just sharing my understanding of how it works.

[midnightpulp]

"trending" downward doesn't mean equal to, and plus we must stop immigration, especially from countries with high/historically high birth rates. Skilled Europeans can come because they won't come in droves, etc. East Asians can come IF they are skilled because they don't breed too much. But please, diversify the tech industry, we don't need a 95% India-Indian H1B skilled tech workforce anymore. Revoke their visas and hire only US Citizens and Permanent Green Card holders. Anyone who comes and applies for any welfare program is auto-deported.

We can't "gut" the military, we need to maintain the most high tech weapons and intel in the world to remain the #1 nation in the world, or we could face unfriendly consequences from other, rival, enemy countries who *do* also have big militaries as well. We can cut VA benefits, though, just like Medicaid and lowering co-insurance pay percentages for Medicare.

VA benefits are an inconsequential percentage of military spending. No, military spending is obscene. The Soviet Union was a far bigger "threat" than China could ever hope to be (I also find China being a legitimate military threat puzzling since why would they want war(s) with their biggest trading partners?) and we're spending 200 billion more year (adjusted for inflation) than we were at the height of the Cold War. We have some 800 bases around in the world, many in countries with perfectly capable defenses. Those are simply World War and Cold War holdovers we keep active for some reason. I've said before Eisenhower clearly warned about this. An example of where the money is going, and it's not to keep us "safe" from Chinese and Muslim boogeymen.

http://fortune.com/2019/05/14/transdigm-pentagon-costs/

[CosmicCowboy]

"Get a job". The totally serious cure all for everything. Unless of course you are too old to see, or have enough money or physical stamina for hour long commutes. I'll be sure to pass your wisdom on to my father who was fired after he had his first heart attack, because they didn't want him on their liability policy. Maybe you can explain how he should get a job sufficient to pay for his and my mother's health care. My computer illiterate mother who can't walk across a room without being winded and panting for 4 minutes, will get a job too, I guess.

Otherwise you seem to be suggesting elderly people starving to death is your solution to some vague "overpopulation". Fuck you, I think we'll pass on that non-serious, evil solution.

I think he is just trolling you. BTW, sorry about your parents.

[RandomGuy]

"trending" downward doesn't mean equal to, and plus we must stop immigration, especially from countries with high/historically high birth rates. Skilled Europeans can come because they won't come in droves, etc. East Asians can come IF they are skilled because they don't breed too much. But please, diversify the tech industry, we don't need a 95% India-Indian H1B skilled tech workforce anymore. Revoke their visas and hire only US Citizens and Permanent Green Card holders. Anyone who comes and applies for any welfare program is auto-deported.

We can't "gut" the military, we need to maintain the most high tech weapons and intel in the world to remain the #1 nation in the world, or we could face unfriendly consequences from other, rival, enemy countries who *do* also have big militaries as well. We can cut VA benefits, though, just like Medicaid and lowering co-insurance pay percentages for Medicare.

Cut VA benefits and you further increase manpower shortages for the military that is already having problems recruiting. VA benefits are also very politically popular on both sides of the political spectrum.

Neither feasible, nor overly desirable.

A bit of background on recruiting foibles:
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/11/07/to-draw-more-soldiers-the-army-wants-more-recruiters-bigger-budgets-and-a-better-slogan/

[Will Hunting]

VA benefits are an inconsequential percentage of military spending. No, military spending is obscene. The Soviet Union was a far bigger "threat" than China could ever hope to be (I also find China being a legitimate military threat puzzling since why would they want war(s) with their biggest trading partners?) and we're spending 200 billion more year (adjusted for inflation) than we were at the height of the Cold War. We have some 800 bases around in the world, many in countries with perfectly capable defenses. Those are simply World War and Cold War holdovers we keep active for some reason. I've said before Eisenhower clearly warned about this. An example of where the money is going, and it's not to keep us "safe" from Chinese and Muslim boogeymen.

http://fortune.com/2019/05/14/transdigm-pentagon-costs/
What's retarded is that China and Russia pose an exponentially bigger cyber threat than they do with sheer military might. The one area of the military I would be fine with pouring tens of billions of dollars into is cyber protection but we're fucking archaic on that stuff. We still have missile systems run by computers that use floppy discs :lol

[Will Hunting]

Cutting VA benefits for current veterans/cutting SS for retirees or people a few years away from retirement is a non-starter. You can't screw people who signed up for the military expecting to get certain benefits afterwards, and you can't screw people who planned retirement around having a certain level of SS.

The idea that an 85 year old who's been retired for 20+ years can just re-enter the work force to earn any SS benefits he's losing is one of the most laughable arguments I've ever heard.

[RandomGuy]

I think he is just trolling you. BTW, sorry about your parents.

Thank you for your kind words. I do appreciate them. I think he is mildly serious, as a young person first exploring these topics are.

Dad has the whole social safety net being discussed here. SS, medicaid and VA to help. After raising 3 kids without a college degree, he has next to nothing saved up. Absent those programs, myself and my siblings, who have our own kids, could not afford their health care costs. Mom never worked at all, and has no SS.

This is where the rubber meets the road, and my parents are not alone. Not saying any of this for any reason other than to illustrate what happens to real people.

[midnightpulp]

What's retarded is that China and Russia pose an exponentially bigger cyber threat than they do with sheer military might. The one area of the military I would be fine with pouring tens of billions of dollars into is cyber protection but we're fucking archaic on that stuff. We still have missile systems run by computers that use floppy discs :lol

Yeah, as we've said before, no need for conventional weapons anymore since nukes exists. No country will attack another country that even has a single nuke. It's the ultimate equalizer, MAD and all that. Yet here we are spending 1.5 trillion on jets. Europe also has a advanced military, and last I checked, they're our allies. China/Russia isn't winning a potential conflict against the USA/Europe/Japan, even against a USA that cuts its defense spending in half, which is a waste of time to even think about because it's not going to happen.

[Millennial_Messiah]

People on medicare/-aid are already there because they can't afford other health insurance. All you will be doing by making health care less affordable for this population is forcing them to consume less health care, get sicker and visit the emergency room more, if not die for lack of preventive care. Emergency rooms and hospitals that are legally bound to treat people regardless of ability to pay, so those hospitals will turn around and charge health insurers more, who will, in turn, turn around and increase premiums.

Squeeze the balloon in one place, it bulges in another. Your solution ultimately would simply increase an already bloated inefficient system of risk transfer where 1/4 of all dollars spent are on administrative overhead.

Sorry, health care is where libertarian fantasies go to die. Free markets do not work for health care. The underlying things that make free markets efficient breakdown, i.e. substitution of goods, price elasticity. Universal health care, paid for by a broad tax offers the least expensive and most effective way, to provide health care.

Every other industrialized country does this. We know it is cheaper because our health care spending per capita is roughly twice that of the average.
But how much do you raise taxes to provide socialized healthcare?

[midnightpulp]

Cutting VA benefits for current veterans/cutting SS for retirees or people a few years away from retirement is a non-starter. You can't screw people who signed up for the military expecting to get certain benefits afterwards, and you can't screw people who planned retirement around having a certain level of SS.

The idea that an 85 year old who's been retired for 20+ years can just re-enter the work force to earn any SS benefits he's losing is one of the most laughable arguments I've ever heard.

He's in some kind of Social Darwinist phase. It's going to happen to "you," too, no matter how spry and healthy you feel right now. Old age, sickness, calamity, etc. And no, unless you're a loon (or maybe terminal), you're not going to selflessly off yourself for the "greater good." I've heard people who when challenged on this position say they'll kill themselves at 65 or something when they can no longer economically contribute. Yeah, okay :lol.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Yeah, as we've said before, no need for conventional weapons anymore since nukes exists. No country will attack another country that even has a single nuke. It's the ultimate equalizer, MAD and all that. Yet here we are spending 1.5 trillion on jets. Europe also has a advanced military, and last I checked, they're our allies. China/Russia isn't winning a potential conflict against the USA/Europe/Japan, even against a USA that cuts its defense spending in half, which is a waste of time to even think about because it's not going to happen.

China, Russia, NK, and the Ummah all gang up against the US, Canada, Australia, UK, NZ and the EU/NATO for WW3... it's a pretty even fight honestly and both sides would take serious blows, major nukes and 1-2 billion lives would be lost.

You also have wild cards like some Slavic states in East Europe who could defect to Russia based on heritage and Turkey which is part of NATO but would be more culturally drawn to the Ummah, especially with Erdogan in charge.

[midnightpulp]

But how much do you raise taxes to provide socialized healthcare?

The money is already there. We spend more in tax dollars per capita than countries with socialized healthcare. Where's the money going? To pharmaceutical companies, insurers, medical equipment manufacturers, and hospitals. Didn't you not too long ago complain at the absurd costs your mom's doctor charges for surgery? That's where the money is going. The healthcare industry has an open tap, and like defense contractors, can raise margins to whatever, making ten thousand percent markup on drugs and such. Solution? Government enacted price controls and/or nationalizing of the healthcare industry. And I'm all for people still being able to seek a privately owned solutions, just like you can buy a gun to protect yourself even though the police and military are the "public" option.

[Millennial_Messiah]

The money is already there. We spend more in tax dollars per capita than countries with socialized healthcare. Where's the money going? To pharmaceutical companies, insurers, medical equipment manufacturers, and hospitals. Didn't you not too long ago complain at the absurd costs your mom's doctor charges for surgery? That's where the money is going. The healthcare industry has an open tap, and like defense contractors, can raise margins to whatever, making ten thousand percent markup on drugs and such. Solution? Government enacted price controls and/or nationalizing of the healthcare industry. And I'm all for people still being able to seek a privately owned solutions, just like you can buy a gun to protect yourself even though the police and military are the "public" option.

So, bipartisan constitutional amendment to federally criminalize lobbying in the healthcare industry? Let's do it.

[midnightpulp]

China, Russia, NK, and the Ummah all gang up against the US, Canada, Australia, UK, NZ and the EU/NATO for WW3... it's a pretty even fight honestly and both sides would take serious blows, major nukes and 1-2 billion lives would be lost.

You also have wild cards like some Slavic states in East Europe who could defect to Russia based on heritage and Turkey which is part of NATO but would be more culturally drawn to the Ummah, especially with Erdogan in charge.

Why would anyone want to start that war? The world is linked by trade more than any other time in human history. In doesn't make sense for a Russia/China to wage a conventional war. What's the purpose? Conquest? :lol. We couldn't even conquer Afghanistan with the most powerful military in human history. China/Russia isn't conquering the US. Nuke us to oblivion? Superpowers will not use nukes because using nukes means the end of humanity. If China and Russia were to somehow hit NY and LA with nukes, we are going Sampson option.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Why would anyone want to start that war? The world is linked by trade more than any other time in human history. In doesn't make sense for a Russia/China to wage a conventional war. What's the purpose? Conquest? :lol. We couldn't even conquer Afghanistan with the most powerful military in human history. China/Russia isn't conquering the US. Nuke us to oblivion? Superpowers will not use nukes because using nukes means the end of humanity. If China and Russia were to somehow hit NY and LA with nukes, we are going Sampson option.

If China/Russia/NK were to aim for NYC and LA and instead hit, say, north Connecticut and Porterville, California... do we still nuke Moscow and Beijing even if we're 100% sure of 100% accuracy? Or do we take the losses and concede to avoid further damage.

Also, if the Ummah ever gets a hold of a serious amount of nukes..... watch the fuck out, because they WANT the "end of humanity" to happen. They value martyrship and sacrifice through suicide to slay anyone who they consider their enemies.

[midnightpulp]

If China/Russia/NK were to aim for NYC and LA and instead hit, say, north Connecticut and Porterville, California... do we still nuke Moscow and Beijing even if we're 100% sure of 100% accuracy? Or do we take the losses and concede to avoid further damage.

Nukes are game over. That's kind of the meta game with them that assures no country will ever use them against each other. Now, we can of course fear that a madman leader might use them just to "see the world burn," but it's highly unlikely a madman assumes control in a superpower country. Madmen dictators typically enjoy their luxurious lifestyles and act accordingly. Their world burns too if they use nukes.

[CosmicCowboy]

I think I would like to see some kind of hybrid public/private health care system where the minor emergency / general practitioner/ family doctor / preventive medicine / prenatal etc. was replaced by nationwide free health clinics. They could be staffed drs, nurses. PA's etc that got a free education in exchange for staffing the clinics for a time period (like 10 years) at a decent living wage. They could work on their "specialist" education during this time and go into private practice after that where additional care was insurance based. Obviously at the same time we would need to deal with pharmaceutical pricing to somehow get our prices in line with th e rest of the world using the clout of the clinic base of 300 million plus as pricing leverage.

[RandomGuy]

What's retarded is that China and Russia pose an exponentially bigger cyber threat than they do with sheer military might. The one area of the military I would be fine with pouring tens of billions of dollars into is cyber protection but we're fucking archaic on that stuff. We still have missile systems run by computers that use floppy discs :lol

+1000

Our missile systems are badly in need of retro-fitting, like all of our infrastructure. The country as a whole in on a slow downward spiral in that regard. A long term consequence of the annual under-investment in infrastructure of all kinds. Tea parties have their consequences after all.

[RandomGuy]

I think I would like to see some kind of hybrid public/private health care system where the minor emergency / general practitioner/ family doctor / preventive medicine / prenatal etc. was replaced by nationwide free health clinics. They could be staffed drs, nurses. PA's etc that got a free education in exchange for staffing the clinics for a time period (like 10 years) at a decent living wage. They could work on their "specialist" education during this time and go into private practice after that where additional care was insurance based. Obviously at the same time we would need to deal with pharmaceutical pricing to somehow get our prices in line with th e rest of the world using the clout of the clinic base of 300 million plus as pricing leverage.

agreed. Not going to find Republican politicians willing to vote for such a thing though. Good luck with that.

[RandomGuy]

But how much do you raise taxes to provide socialized healthcare?

By an amount less than we spend in health care premiums currently by all accounts. Which costs more to a family of four, 1800 in health insurance premiums or 1600 in health taxes?

[CosmicCowboy]

agreed. Not going to find Republican politicians willing to vote for such a thing though. Good luck with that.

I don't think the blame falls exclusively on red team but agree that there would be little support there.

[RandomGuy]

I don't think the blame falls exclusively on red team but agree that there would be little support there.

Also agreed. The money interests in the status quo would contribute a lot to Democrats to stop such a thing as well. Which is why the progressives offer the only real alternative to getting the health care system fixed, IMO. Corporate Democrats need to be given the heave ho.

[CosmicCowboy]

So let's touch on the moral position of single payer. How much health care is too much health care? Does the guy living under the bridge doing drugs/alcohol/cigarettes etc to excess deserve to get the "free" half million dollar live transplant at 60 years old?

[Winehole23]

So let's touch on the moral position of single payer. How much health care is too much health care? Does the guy living under the bridge doing drugs/alcohol/cigarettes etc to excess deserve to get the "free" half million dollar live transplant at 60 years old?so long as we're talking hypotheticals, would you rather he rob you under the overpass?

[CosmicCowboy]

so long as we're talking hypotheticals, would you rather he rob you under the overpass?

But what if the strawman stole your hypothetical? :lol

[Winehole23]

But what if the strawman stole your hypothetical? :lolNice dodge, but every social repression has its comeuppance. I guess you're hoping your wealth will make you immune to the cost.

Good luck.

[CosmicCowboy]

nice dodge

I would definitely be pissed if he robbed my liver.

[Winehole23]

I would definitely be pissed if he robbed my liver.That's your job.

[CosmicCowboy]

That's your job.

So lack of personal responsibility becomes public responsibility? It was a serious question.

[CosmicCowboy]

You realize, at some point there would have to be the dreaded "death panel" don't you?. You agree with Fox News that death panels are bad?

[RandomGuy]

So let's touch on the moral position of single payer. How much health care is too much health care? Does the guy living under the bridge doing drugs/alcohol/cigarettes etc to excess deserve to get the "free" half million dollar live transplant at 60 years old?

Such candidates would be low on the priority list for the factors you named. The limit would be on the heart itself, more than the money, mostly making this question, as posed, moot. (edit: per medical ethics guidelines, look them up, don't take my word for it, it is a fascinating topic-RG)

IT does highlight though the fact that we do not really treat addiction as the medical condition it is, and that neglect of people is costly in a lot of ways.

Look up "harm reduction" if you want something that will hopefully open your eyes a bit.

[Winehole23]

CC strawmanning so hard I can feel the updraft

[RandomGuy]

You realize, at some point there would have to be the dreaded "death panel" don't you?. You agree with Fox News that death panels are bad?

We already have death panels, essentially, but do so at the health insurer level where profit motive conflicts with the care of human beings. These things do not tend to mix well.

But yes, someone has to make some calls as to what limits care. This is done in other countries, so this doesn't really have to be done out of whole cloth.

[RandomGuy]

So lack of personal responsibility becomes public responsibility? It was a serious question.

It is a good one.

Who gets to define a "lack of personal responsibility"?

The evidence we have is that poverty causes bad decision making, not the other way around.

(edit)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydKcaIE6O1k

[CosmicCowboy]

I agree they already exist. I wasn't advocating against them. I got the impression winehole was. Since the choice he offered was give the guy a liver or he would go on a robbery spree.

[Winehole23]

^^^ addled

[RandomGuy]

I agree they already exist. I wasn't advocating against them. I got the impression winehole was. Since the choice he offered was give the guy a liver or he would go on a robbery spree.

Would you rob someone for money to have a life-saving operation?

That is where rationing by ability to pay gets us, not exactly an out of the world question either, IMO.

[CosmicCowboy]

Would you rob someone for money to have a life-saving operation?

That is where rationing by ability to pay gets us, not exactly an out of the world question either, IMO.

I honestly don't think I would. Would you?

[baseline bum]

I would definitely be pissed if he robbed my liver.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp-pU8TFsg0

[AaronY]

dont forget guise cancelling cable tv in prisons..maybe that can pay for the healths carings

[Capt Bringdown]

MMT (aka financial literacy) to the rescue:

Just like a household, the government has to finance its spending out of income or through borrowing.
True or False

The role of taxes is to finance government spending.
True or False

The National Government borrows money to the private sector to finance the budget deficit.
True or False

Persistent budget deficits will burden future generations with inflation and higher taxes.
True or False

Intro to MMT -- >>

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXK9JQnvVLo&list=PLZJAgo9FgHWZzhpkjtMxIwZns26A0OdFz)

[AaronY]

MMT (aka financial literacy) to the rescue:

Just like a household, the government has to finance its spending out of income or through borrowing.
True or False

The role of taxes is to finance government spending.
True or False

The National Government borrows money to the private sector to finance the budget deficit.
True or False

Persistent budget deficits will burden future generations with inflation and higher taxes.
True or False

Intro to MMT -- >>

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXK9JQnvVLo&list=PLZJAgo9FgHWZzhpkjtMxIwZns26A0OdFz)
forget that! switch em from cable to directv in cell block three!

instant savings!

[Capt Bringdown]

forget that! switch em from cable to directv in cell block three!

instant savings!

Federal Prisons or State Prisons? Which one of these entities are funded by taxes? Hint: one of them is not.

[Nbadan]

Such candidates would be low on the priority list for the factors you named. The limit would be on the heart itself, more than the money, mostly making this question, as posed, moot. (edit: per medical ethics guidelines, look them up, don't take my word for it, it is a fascinating topic-RG)

IT does highlight though the fact that we do not really treat addiction as the medical condition it is, and that neglect of people is costly in a lot of ways.

Look up "harm reduction" if you want something that will hopefully open your eyes a bit.

Bingo. In CC theoretical, the alcohol addict could get treatment that maybe saves his liver. Preventive medicine is a lot cheaper than emergency rooms

[AaronY]

Federal Prisons or State Prisons? Which one of these entities are funded by taxes? Hint: one of them is not.
Dang man, you got me stumped here tbh