A modern look at our roster construction and team needs heading into free agency

[Dejounte]

I like how pad300 classified positions in another thread. Credit to him. He broke it down and i would like to take it further:

pg = runs plays
sg = shooter/ secondary playmaker
sf = offball movement scorer
pf = post play/ guards weakside
c= defensive anchor/ rim protector



combo guards (pg/sg...runs plays + shooter/secondary playmaker):
--Dejounte
--Derrick White
--Lonnie

Combined offense rating = 7/10
Combined defense rating = 9/10

strict sg...shooter/ secondary playmaker:
--Mills
--Forbes
--Quinndary

Combined offense rating = 5/10
Combined defense rating = 2/10

wings (sg/sf...shooter/ secondary playmaker + offball movement scorer):
--DeMar
--Johnson
--Beli

Combined offense rating = 7/10
Combined defense rating = 5/10

strict sf (offball movement scorer):
--Bertans

Offense rating = 7/10
Defense rating = 3/10

big forward (sf/pf...offball movement scorer + post play/ guards weakside)
--Gay
--Samanic
--Moore

Combined offense rating = 7/10
Combined defense rating = 7/10

combo big (pf/c...post play/ guards weakside + defensive anchor/rim protector)
--Aldridge
--Metu

Combined offense rating = 7/10
Combined defense rating = 7/10
*Aldridge is shouldering the rating here

strict center (defensive anchor/ rim protector)
--Poetl
--Eubanks

Combined offense rating = 5/10
Combined defense rating = 8/10
*Poetl is shouldering the defense rating




Notes:

-It makes sense that the Spurs value combo guards. If we lose one to injury or free agency, its hard to replace players who know the Spurs playbook and also has the talent to run the plays
-wings (sg/sf) were our weakest link so its good they addressed that through the draft
-strict sf (Bertans) is probably our least valuable need. Bertans needs to be traded as he has proven he can't do anything beyond shooting.
-if i were to guess what free agent they would go for next, it would be either wing (sg/sf) or big forward (sf/pf). Wings is a weak part of our roster since we cant give DeMar much rest because Beli stinks and Johnson probably wont get minutes.
-Same can be said about big forward (sf/pf), we need someone to spell Gay when he needs rest and Samanic may not be ready (unless he takes the Kawhi route and just gets it) and Moore isnt that talented (though per Jabari the Spurs are still high on him)
-strict sg is our other weakest link. Though I guess theres still room for improvement between Forbes and Quinndary. Mills needs to GO

I made this thread because I'm tired of the "omg! We didnt address our biggest need! Who is going to guard Kawhi, LeBron, Durant in the long run!?!". The Spurs' answer is Samanic.

[Dejounte]

Would also like to add what my opinion would be, possible line-up configurations heading into next season:

Starters:
Combo guard (pg/ sg),
wing (sg/ sf),
big forward (sf/pf),
combo big (pf/ c),
strict center (c)

In my opinion, this is the best line-up configuration we can put out in the beginning of the game to set the tone with our defense, and simply because this line-up may have the best synergy.

Optimal players used for this line-up configuration:
Combo guard: Dejounte Murray
Wing: DeMar
Big forward: Gay (eventually Samanic)
Combo big: Aldridge
Strict Center: Poetl

The next line-up I would call "beautiful game" which I think would be the best line-up for ball movement and shooting. This would be our ideal bench.

This line-up consists of:
Combo guard (pg/sg),
strict sg (sg) OR combo guard (pg/sg),
wing (sg/sf),
strict sf OR big forward (sf/pf),
combo big (pf/c)

Optimal players for this line-up configuration:
Combo guard: Derrick White
Strict SG: Forbes OR Combo guard: Lonnie Walker
Wing: Belinelli (then eventually Keldon Johnson)
Strict SF: Bertans OR Big forward: Samanic (eventually Gay)
Combo big: Aldridge (then eventually Metu)

Third line-up configuration I would suggest is small ball, since that is popular these days

This line-up consists of:
Combo guard (pg/sg),
Combo guard (pg/sg),
Combo guard (pg/sg),
Wing (sg/sf),
big forward (sf/pf)

Optimal line-up with this configuration:
Combo guard: Dejounte
Combo guard: White
Combo guard: Lonnie
Wing: DeMar (then eventually Keldon)
Big forward: Gay (then eventually Samanic)

[mudyez]

"modern"

Someone didn't get the memo about positionless basketball being the future of this sport.

[Dejounte]

"modern"

Someone didn't get the memo about positionless basketball being the future of this sport.

So you're saying future...and i'm saying modern. We're not there yet.

Here's a popular line-up config. many posters here suggest for a starting line-up:

Combo guard (pg/sg)
Combo guard (pg/sg)
Wing (sg/sf)
Big forward (sf/pf)
Combo big (pf/c)

Optimal line-up:
Combo guard: Murray
Combo guard: White
Wing: DeMar
Big forward: Gay
Combo big: Aldridge

My problem with this is there are way too many ball handlers that focused on the first 8 minutes of the game. Also i'm just not sure if Aldridge's body can effectively bang with the strict centers of the league anymore.

With those starters, the bench would then look like this:

Combo guard (pg/sg)
Strict sg
Wing (sg/sf)
Strict sf (since i'm sure neither Samanic or Metu are ready to be the first off the bench yet)
Strict center

So the optimal players coming off the bench would be:

Combo guard: Lonnie Walker
Strict SG: Either Mills or Forbes
Wing: Belinelli
Strict SF: Bertans
Strict C: Poetl

The balance between the starters and the bench doesnt seem to fit. The bench would have to rely on Lonnie to guide the second team and run the plays, but im not sure hes there yet. The other option would be to have a strict sg, or a player that clearly has no business running plays, in Forbes or Mills to run the second group. Then you have terrible defense between Bertans and Beli, which you would hope to address by having our rooks replace their minutes or signing a free agent that would take theirs.

[nyspurguy]

The Spurs could've gotten Little, Bol Bol and Luka

[nyspurguy]

Is there any way we can get Tobias Harris?......
(How the mighty has fallen)

[lmbebo]

Is there any way we can get Tobias Harris?......
(How the mighty has fallen)

will get max from philly, at least double the mle. no real way without creating space

[Bonner]

Look all you want, PATFO will sign a combo guard and an ancient forward and call it an offseason as always :lol

[bluebellmaniac]

The Spurs could've gotten Little, Bol Bol and Luka

A cokehead and a guy who will have a really short NBA career? Why?

[rogcl1]

The Spurs could've gotten Little, Bol Bol and Luka

Sure, a cokehead and a 7 footer with foot problems . A sure recipe for success.

[John B]

Lakers don’t worry me because 5 guys can get tired easily, until they figure to sign their 3rd Star and build a deep bench with 23 mil. Still Spurs need to address how to defend Davis, Jokic, Town, Porzingis, Capela. Poeltl needs help. Are they bringing Milutinov?

[pad300]

Lakers don’t worry me because 5 guys can get tired easily, until they figure to sign their 3rd Star and build a deep bench with 23 mil. Still Spurs need to address how to defend Davis, Jokic, Town, Porzingis, Capela. Poeltl needs help. Are they bringing Milutinov?

It's a good question. It's highly influenced by available money (currently the full MLE + vet min contracts) and roster spots (currently 1, would have to trade to make more) (assuming Gay is resigned). Assuming we can make a trade or cut Metu to add a roster spot, the tradeoff looks like this.
a) Milutinov (at at least $4M/year) + maybe another low-level vet (with the remainder of the MLE)
vs.
b)A full MLE Wing + vet min big
or
c) a full MLE Big + vet min wing

Hard to call without strong knowledge of how the FO asses Milutinov and the various markets. What I'd try, is use Milutinov's rights + a player to make a roster spot, pushing us to B or C. As I think there are going to be some pretty decent bigs for the vet min (Noah, Boban, ???) as they are undervalued right now, I would go with B to produce the strongest team next year...

[spurraider21]

Modern = OP’s made up standards

also Bert isn’t a SF and yet you have him as our only “strict SF”

[rogcl1]

It's a good question. It's highly influenced by available money (currently the full MLE + vet min contracts) and roster spots (currently 1, would have to trade to make more) (assuming Gay is resigned). Assuming we can make a trade or cut Metu to add a roster spot, the tradeoff looks like this.
a) Milutinov (at at least $4M/year) + maybe another low-level vet (with the remainder of the MLE)
vs.
b)A full MLE Wing + vet min big
or
c) a full MLE Big + vet min wing

Hard to call without strong knowledge of how the FO asses Milutinov and the various markets. What I'd try, is use Milutinov's rights + a player to make a roster spot, pushing us to B or C. As I think there are going to be some pretty decent bigs for the vet min (Noah, Boban, ???) as they are undervalued right now, I would go with B to produce the strongest team next year...

Interesting to see the possible paths to filling out the teams needs. First of all I just don't think that Mills will be traded. or if there is a market for him. I do think some form of a true small forward and a big or combo c/pf with emphasis on the c, are the teams most glaring needs. How to get there, that is the question.
I just don't think breaking up the mle will do the trick. A given I believe is that Gay will be resigned with Bird rights.
Next.

1.Sign sf with full mle.
2. Package rights to Milutinov and some asset like Belinelli for a big that could be used in situational matchups.
3. Not sure if spurs will be able to secure a decent player through the trade route so option B might be the most viable path. I do believe Marco should be the odd man out. no D, old, injury prone. A trade involving him and Milutinov might net a usable player.

[JeffDuncan]

Modern = OP’s made up standards

also Bert isn’t a SF and yet you have him as our only “strict SF”

He's invented a modern lineup for Modern Times.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Chaplin_-_Modern_Times.jpg/220px-Chaplin_-_Modern_Times.jpg

And yes, Bertans is a Power Forward.

[Dejounte]

Modern = OP’s made up standards

also Bert isn’t a SF and yet you have him as our only “strict SF”

I was reluctant to label him as a SF, dude is a major liability as a PF and he doesnt have the game as a PF...either offensively or defensively. Bertans is a specialist in every definition of the word. This is why I think he either needs to become more well-rounded or needs to be used as a trade chip so he can go. Otherwise, unless hes satisfied with his minutes... I dont foresee him getting much more next year

These reasons are especially why he didnt get minutes in the playoffs.

[Dejounte]

To further elaborate...Bertans is a unique case. Has the height of a power forward, offensive skills of a small forward, defensive quickness of a center, strength of a point guard. Bertans only role on this team should be one where we are trying to build on a lead when we're already up and trying to bury the other team by 20 points. He simply cannot be relied on to get stops. And for this fact, he will not be getting many minutes ever because of his lack of versatility.

[Dejounte]

He's invented a modern lineup for Modern Times.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Chaplin_-_Modern_Times.jpg/220px-Chaplin_-_Modern_Times.jpg

And yes, Bertans is a Power Forward.

Talk basketball with me. Explain more why he is. Discussions like this are what i love about forums.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

The Spurs could've gotten Little, Bol Bol and Luka I don't ever see Bol Bol ever being able to play more 60 games a season and more than 20 minutes a game.

[K...]

Bertans is a tweener who sucks at both his natural positions. Might as well call him a tall small guard since that's what his skills correspondence to. The dude had talent, but he's hard to give minutes to. Good reason to trade him to a team that night figure him out.

It's funny because when Kyle left we assumed pafto had an idea about using bertans, but I guess he got poetled out of his role lol

[GreekSpursfan]

Bertans showed promise the previous season and Pop thought he could take the D.Green role, thats why he let Danny go imo but he let him and all of us down this season. Yes he's a tweener but if he could hit the 3 in a consistant basis he would be a plus but somehow he lost it.

[JeffDuncan]

Talk basketball with me. Explain more why he is. Discussions like this are what i love about forums.


To further elaborate...Bertans is a unique case. Has the height of a power forward, offensive skills of a small forward, defensive quickness of a center, strength of a point guard. Bertans only role on this team should be one where we are trying to build on a lead when we're already up and trying to bury the other team by 20 points. He simply cannot be relied on to get stops. And for this fact, he will not be getting many minutes ever because of his lack of versatility.

Your post is a pretty good summary of him. Defensively, he lacks muscle mass. NBA officiating still permits heavy contact in some cases, and Bertans can't handle that. Players like Milsap and Jockitch will simply push him aside.

Bertans' major skill is his 3pt shooting. Unless the Spurs intend to shoot a higher volume of 3s next season, he should be traded. I think. He shouldn't be so difficult to trade. According to average attempts, every other team in the league values 3pt shooting more than the Spurs do.

[Fusternino]

Just here to remind everyone that KA was that elusive guy who could legit defend both forward positions.

Thanks.

[Dejounte]

Just here to remind everyone that KA was that elusive guy who could legit defend both forward positions.

Thanks.

No doubt about it. But his ceiling was low and he probably saw his best year with us. Samanic has a chance to be a lot better.

[Dejounte]

Could we be looking at another Richard Jefferson / Kawhi Leonard scenario where Samanic takes the reins from Gay halfway through the season?

[JeffDuncan]

Just here to remind everyone that KA was that elusive guy who could legit defend both forward positions.

Thanks.

You mean SloMo? There's been criticism of him here for his aversion to shooting - and I don't know if it's been posted - but Anderson had surgery in April for thoracic outlet syndrome, which affected his use of his arm and hand.

https://www.nba.com/grizzlies/news/grind-city-media/mikecheck-with-shoulder-surgery-behind-him-anderson-still-counts-on-being-right-fit-for-grizz-190424

Just thought I'd mention.

[JeffDuncan]

Could we be looking at another Richard Jefferson / Kawhi Leonard scenario where Samanic takes the reins from Gay halfway through the season?

I don't know about Samanic taking over for Gay, but it would be fabulous if the Spurs could develop Samanic enough (and give him a chance) to rotate some with Gay, in certain matchups. I mean, along about late January, start giving him a run of 5 or 6 minutes, in games here and there, and not just in garbage time. Sure, he'd take some lumps, but that's how we learn.

It's hard to see Pop doing that, tho. As liberal as he is, politically, he's as conservative as they get, while the game clock is running.

[Dejounte]

I don't know about Samanic taking over for Gay, but it would be fabulous if the Spurs could develop Samanic enough (and give him a chance) to rotate some with Gay, in certain matchups. I mean, along about late January, start giving him a run of 5 or 6 minutes, in games here and there, and not just in garbage time. Sure, he'd take some lumps, but that's how we learn.

It's hard to see Pop doing that, tho. As liberal as he is, politically, he's as conservative as they get, while the game clock is running.

If they coveted this guy so much for years and he proves good enough, i dont buy that Pop will just bury him on the bench so he can "get over himself". If a rookie is good enough, he'll play. I think people are just traumatized with all the recent rooks (DJ, KA, Lonnie, White) getting that treatment. I dont think that will always be the case, and i tend to believe theyll play a rook if he proves worthy.

[Degoat]

I think the reason dejounte, Dwhite, and Lonnie didn’t play their rookie years much is because Pop demands a lot from the guard positions, I think with SF/PF he won’t demand as much because the ball wont be in there hands

[SAGirl]

Good thread. Kudos.
I don’t expect much change but this is interesting and informative to read.
:bobo

[John B]

I think the reason dejounte, Dwhite, and Lonnie didn’t play their rookie years much is because Pop demands a lot from the guard positions, I think with SF/PF he won’t demand as much because the ball wont be in there hands
Also Spurs had future HOFer TP and Manu in the lineup. But I think it has changed and rookies should get better opportunities especially if they play hard defense. I suspect Keldon would earn his minutes, but all 3 would burn I-35 for Austin assignments. I like our picks, again not sexy but should be good in the long haul. Vet SF and big man from MLE, and salary dump I suspect Belli

[TD 21]

I made this thread because I'm tired of the "omg! We didnt address our biggest need! Who is going to guard Kawhi, LeBron, Durant in the long run!?!". The Spurs' answer is Samanic.

:lmao Perfect encapsulation of how clueless you really are.

[Dejounte]

:lmao Perfect encapsulation of how clueless you really are.

Lmao do you ever look at yourself in the mirror and see how pompous you are? Like I said, you must be a delight to be around...

[RC_Drunkford]

the things this team needs is:

1. A solid starting SF who's an offball player and at least solid on defense (Bojan Bogdanovic)
2. A defensive minded PF who does the dirty work and shoots at least 33% from 3 (Marcus Morris, Thad Young, Ariza)
3. A C who can shoot 3s (Kaminsky, etc.)

Of course it will be hard to add all of those players and I think we'll add only 1 or 2 cheaper options, but that would give the roster the versatility to adjust to match ups in the playoffs

[Dejounte]

A couple updates from recent interviews from Keldon, Quinndary, and Coach Hammond:

-Quinndary says he and Lonnie "both play the same position" and that they play the 1.... Shows that combo guard (pg/sg) is probably accurate for these two instead of wing (sg/sf)
-Asked what Keldon's position he's been playing in practices, he says theyve been putting him as the 2 & 3. Making him the wing (sg/sf) similar to DeRozan as expected.
-you can see in that one video where Lonnie steals the ball and dunks it, he was matching up with Keldon in that video showing Lonnie guards the 2 guards as well.
-Someone may have already mentioned it, but when asked what upside Keldon has, Becky answers with "we see him as a 3 and D" player
-common word description of Keldon from others (Lonnie, Becky) has been that he brings energy

[John B]

A couple updates from recent interviews from Keldon, Quinndary, and Coach Hammond:

-Quinndary says he and Lonnie "both play the same position" and that they play the 1.... Shows that combo guard (pg/sg) is probably accurate for these two instead of wing (sg/sf)
-Asked what Keldon's position he's been playing in practices, he says theyve been putting him as the 2 & 3. Making him the wing (sg/sf) similar to DeRozan as expected.
-you can see in that one video where Lonnie steals the ball and dunks it, he was matching up with Keldon in that video showing Lonnie guards the 2 guards as well.
-Someone may have already mentioned it, but when asked what upside Keldon has, Becky answers with "we see him as a 3 and D" player
-common word description of Keldon from others (Lonnie, Becky) has been that he brings energy
:bobo

[r0drig0lac]

A couple updates from recent interviews from Keldon, Quinndary, and Coach Hammond:

-Quinndary says he and Lonnie "both play the same position" and that they play the 1.... Shows that combo guard (pg/sg) is probably accurate for these two instead of wing (sg/sf)
-Asked what Keldon's position he's been playing in practices, he says theyve been putting him as the 2 & 3. Making him the wing (sg/sf) similar to DeRozan as expected.
-you can see in that one video where Lonnie steals the ball and dunks it, he was matching up with Keldon in that video showing Lonnie guards the 2 guards as well.
-Someone may have already mentioned it, but when asked what upside Keldon has, Becky answers with "we see him as a 3 and D" player
-common word description of Keldon from others (Lonnie, Becky) has been that he brings energyas it should be, does not make sense Lonnie as a wing (or small forward)

[Dejounte]

as it should be, does not make sense Lonnie as a wing (or small forward)

Agreed. Though I see often some posters place him as a SF coming off the bench.

With a rise in minutes for Lonnie, I think

if DJ and White are both staters (not likely, in my opinion. Though we might experiment with it for the first two games of the season) ... Lonnie is our PG (runs the plays) coming off of the bench with Lonnie finding shooters like Forbes, Mills

OR

Only 1 of DJ and White starts and Lonnie comes off the bench with either of these two. Lonnie then becomes the secondary playmaker, handling the ball probably 50% the time and then looking for spots to spot up when either White or DJ are distributing. This really leaves Mills and Forbes out of the rotation though unless they want to play super small (our defense would suffer)

[Dejounte]

If the Spurs insist on keeping either Forbes or Mills, then I have to be open to the idea that DJ and White could both start to make minutes for those two with Lonnie's rise.

Starters:
Combo guard (pg/ sg)
Combo guard (pg/sg)
wing (sg/ sf),
combo big (pf/ c),
strict center (c)

Optimal players used for this line-up configuration:
Combo guard: Dejounte Murray
Combo guard: Derrick White
Wing: DeMar DeRozan
Combo big: Aldridge
Strict Center: Poetl

Supporting bench:

This line-up consists of:
Combo guard (pg/sg),
strict sg (sg),
wing (sg/sf) or strict SF
big forward (sf/pf),
combo big (pf/c) or strict center

Optimal players for this line-up configuration:
Combo guard: Lonnie Walker
Strict SG: Forbes
Wing: Belinelli (then eventually Keldon Johnson) / strict SF: Bertans
Big forward: Rudy Gay (then eventually Samanic)
Combo big: Metu / Strict Center: Eubanks

[SpursDynasty85]

as it should be, does not make sense Lonnie as a wing (or small forward)

Bryn did a little of both in the G league. I imagine Pop is going for a 3 gaurd 2 forward lineup. He was really the first one to play small with Finley at PF I recall. All 3 gaurds will probably play pg/sg while on the floor.

[venitian navigator]

If the Spurs insist on keeping either Forbes or Mills, then I have to be open to the idea that DJ and White could both start to make minutes for those two with Lonnie's rise.

Starters:
Combo guard (pg/ sg)
Combo guard (pg/sg)
wing (sg/ sf),
combo big (pf/ c),
strict center (c)

Optimal players used for this line-up configuration:
Combo guard: Dejounte Murray
Combo guard: Derrick White
Wing: DeMar DeRozan
Combo big: Aldridge
Strict Center: Poetl

Supporting bench:

This line-up consists of:
Combo guard (pg/sg),
strict sg (sg),
wing (sg/sf) or strict SF
big forward (sf/pf),
combo big (pf/c) or strict center

Optimal players for this line-up configuration:
Combo guard: Lonnie Walker
Strict SG: Forbes
Wing: Belinelli (then eventually Keldon Johnson) / strict SF: Bertans
Big forward: Rudy Gay (then eventually Samanic)
Combo big: Metu / Strict Center: Eubanks

if this perspective is true, than looks that we're playng two bigs lineup the majority of time and than makes sense we are going on the market with the mle or via trade with the main goal being searching for a big...

[Fusternino]

Glad to see some sanity in this thread regarding posters here actually thinking Lonnie or Marco can guard the 3, lol.

Dedmon would be great stretch 5. As for the combo forward and 3&D wing we needed, hopefully we just drafted them. Someone pointed out to me Keldon actually has a longer standing reach than Danny, his barefoot height of 6'4.75" is deflated due to his tiny neck and head.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

A couple updates from recent interviews from Keldon, Quinndary, and Coach Hammond:

-Quinndary says he and Lonnie "both play the same position" and that they play the 1.... Shows that combo guard (pg/sg) is probably accurate for these two instead of wing (sg/sf)
-Asked what Keldon's position he's been playing in practices, he says theyve been putting him as the 2 & 3. Making him the wing (sg/sf) similar to DeRozan as expected.
-you can see in that one video where Lonnie steals the ball and dunks it, he was matching up with Keldon in that video showing Lonnie guards the 2 guards as well.
-Someone may have already mentioned it, but when asked what upside Keldon has, Becky answers with "we see him as a 3 and D" player
-common word description of Keldon from others (Lonnie, Becky) has been that he brings energy


I think when Quindary said him and Lonnie are playing the same position he was saying offensively they both initiated the offense. Manu initiated the offense a ton with the 2nd unit but he wasn't a point guard, he was just the best play maker for that unit. Watching some of the old summer league games Kawhi, Kyle Anderson, and Bryn all handled the ball a ton and initiated those teams offense but never played the 1 in real NBA games either.

It's just the coaching staff recognizing he is good at creating his own shot and trying to get him to be better at doing so and creating for others. Each summer league they give players specific things to focus on in training and the games.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I think the rotations at the beginning of the season will be as follows barring player movement or injuries

Starters.

1. White
2. Murray
3. DeRozan
4. Aldridge
5. Poeltl

1st Rotation

1. Murray
2. Mills
3. DeRozan
4. Gay
5. Poeltl

2nd rotation

1. White
2. Forbes
3. Walker or Marco
4. Bertans
5. Aldridge

Closing squad

1. White
2. Murray (if his 3 point% and attempts are solid)
3. DeRozan
4. Gay
5. Aldridge

If (which I seriously doubt) Samanic or a free agent pick up proves to be a solid defender and net positive on offense maybe they get minutes at the 4 early in the season. I believe we will be having heavy 3 guard line ups like somebody posted above due to the roster personnel so far. Hopefully Pop is done with the small guard squad of Bryn, Patty and Marco playing together.

[Dejounte]

I think when Quindary said him and Lonnie are playing the same position he was saying offensively they both initiated the offense. Manu initiated the offense a ton with the 2nd unit but he wasn't a point guard, he was just the best play maker for that unit. Watching some of the old summer league games Kawhi, Kyle Anderson, and Bryn all handled the ball a ton and initiated those teams offense but never played the 1 in real NBA games either.

It's just the coaching staff recognizing he is good at creating his own shot and trying to get him to be better at doing so and creating for others. Each summer league they give players specific things to focus on in training and the games.

I think we have to start with how we define "playing the 1 in the real NBA games" means. I dont disagree with anything you said. I think the Spurs playing these two at the 1 shows us insight on what capabilities they have with bringing the ball up and making plays for others while not necessarily playing the 1 like how you mentioned Manu as an example. Its why I list them as combo guards in the original post, as i think the Spurs strategy is to throw different players into roles that will shift play making every couple minutes or so between DJ, White, Lonnie, DeMar creating a mismatch or illusion against the opponent every time they run down.... Seems like a new age type game plan to me and hopefully it pays off. I also believe its a relief theyre finding guards who have the talent to run the team instead of going to Patty Mills who has shown he is terrible when he tries to run plays (literally pulled my hair whenever he was the point guard 2 years ago).

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I think we have to start with how we define "playing the 1 in the real NBA games" means. I dont disagree with anything you said. I think the Spurs playing these two at the 1 shows us insight on what capabilities they have with bringing the ball up and making plays for others while not necessarily playing the 1 like how you mentioned Manu as an example. Its why I list them as combo guards in the original post, as i think the Spurs strategy is to throw different players into roles that will shift play making every couple minutes or so between DJ, White, Lonnie, DeMar creating a mismatch or illusion against the opponent every time they run down.... Seems like a new age type game plan to me and hopefully it pays off. I also believe its a relief theyre finding guards who have the talent to run the team instead of going to Patty Mills who has shown he is terrible when he tries to run plays (literally pulled my hair whenever he was the point guard 2 years ago).

I feel they are trying to have as many strong offensive initiators and creators on the court as possible. The team seems to be trying to get away from specialists and going for more well rounded offensive players. I mean every team is trying to do this but it's difficult to do because of talent but it seems Lonnie has the athleticism and solid handles to assist with Murray, White, to a lesser extent Rudy and DeRozan. The offense has a chance to be really dynamic this upcoming season

[Dejounte]

I feel they are trying to have as many strong offensive initiators and creators on the court as possible. The team seems to be trying to get away from specialists and going for more well rounded offensive players. I mean every team is trying to do this but it's difficult to do because of talent but it seems Lonnie has the athleticism and solid handles to assist with Murray, White, to a lesser extent now Rudy and DeRozan. The offense has a chance to be really dynamic this upcoming season

This team's specialists:
Mills
Beli
Bertans
To a lesser extent, Forbes, but he has room for improvement and he wasn't bad at taking the ball to the hoop last year.

Poetl and Eubanks could be considered specialists as well, but I believe theres greater value in defensive anchor centers than 3 point specialists.

It's clear that at least one of Beli, Mills, Bertans needs to go.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

This team's specialists:
Mills
Beli
Bertans
To a lesser extent, Forbes, but he has room for improvement and he wasn't bad at taking the ball to the hoop last year.

Poetl and Eubanks could be considered specialists as well, but I believe theres greater value in defensive anchor centers than 3 point specialists.

It's clear that at least one of Beli, Mills, Bertans needs to go.

Forbes, Marco, and Bertans deals are finished after the upcoming season, Mills.........smh. lmao.

Of course the team has specialist but getting Lonnie, Luka, and even Witherspoon kind of looks like they are looking at more well rounded offensive players. Johnson sounds like just a shooter but he is young and could get better at putting the ball on the deck.

I know there isn't any team that is going to turn down a great 3 point shooter who plays defense if he can't put the ball on the deck but I do like the fact that it seems like they are looking more well rounded players.

[C-Dub]

As of now the currently constructed roster pending free agency will maybe look like this:
1. DJM, Forbes, DDR, LMA, Poeltl
2. White, Mills, LW4, Bertans, Luka
3. KJ, Beli, Metu, leftover FA

* Forbes start for floor spacing purposes.
* White will finish games instead of Forbes.
I say let Rudy walk and use that money towards a younger decent PF/C type player that can be a good role player after LMA, Patty and DDR are gone which should be in 2 years. Also grab a veteran SF/PF type player with the MLE. By the trade deadline if LW4 is showing that he can be a dependable backup SG/SF then trade Beli by the trade deadline. I would not move on from Bertans just yet. His 3pt shot is to pure and he knows the system and will only get better, not an allstar but a good role player and we need his 3pt shooting to go along with Forbes and Mills. I do believe that White will be better at 3's this coming season and DDR and LMA will shoot more 3's. With that being said I believe after this coming trade deadline the Spurs roster could look like this:

1. DJM, Forbes, DDR, New PF, LMA
2. White, Mills, New SF, Luka, Poeltl
3. KJ, Metu, leftovers like Cunningham

[Dejounte]

My ideal rotation with Carroll added to the mix

Starters:
Combo guard: Dejounte Murray
Strict SG: Bryn Forbes
Wing: DeMar DeRozan
Combo big: LaMarcus Aldridge
Strict Center: Jakob Poetl

First off the bench:

Combo guard: Derrick White
Combo guard: Lonnie Walker
Big Forward: DeMar Carroll (eventually Keldon Johnson)
Big Forward: Rudy Gay (eventually Luka Samanic)
Strict Center: Eubanks or Combo big: Metu

We are looking really deep

[Dejounte]

pg = runs plays
sg = shooter/ secondary playmaker
sf = offball movement scorer
pf = post play/ guards weakside
c= defensive anchor/ rim protector



combo guards (pg/sg...runs plays + shooter/secondary playmaker):
--Dejounte
--Derrick White
--Lonnie
--Quinndary

Combined offense rating = 7/10
Combined defense rating = 9/10

strict sg...shooter/ secondary playmaker:
--Mills
--Forbes

Combined offense rating = 5/10
Combined defense rating = 2/10

wings (sg/sf...shooter/ secondary playmaker + offball movement scorer):
--DeMar
--Johnson
--Beli

Combined offense rating = 7/10
Combined defense rating = 6/10


big forward (sf/pf...offball movement scorer + post play/ guards weakside)
--Gay
--DeMarre Carroll
--Marcus Morris
--Samanic

Combined offense rating = 7/10
Combined defense rating = 9/10

combo big (pf/c...post play/ guards weakside + defensive anchor/rim protector)
--Aldridge
--Metu

Combined offense rating = 7/10
Combined defense rating = 7/10
*Aldridge is shouldering the rating here

strict center (defensive anchor/ rim protector)
--Poetl
--Eubanks

Combined offense rating = 5/10
Combined defense rating = 8/10
*Poetl is shouldering the defense rating


Starters
Combo guard: Dejounte Murray
Wing: DeMar DeRozan
Big forward: Rudy Gay
Combo Big: Aldridge
Strict Center: Poetl

2nd Starters:
Combo guard: Dejounte Murray
Combo guard: Lonnie Walker
Wing: DeMar DeRozan
Big forward: Rudy Gay
Combo big: Aldridge

1st bench
Combo guard: Derrick White
Combo guard: Lonnie Walker or strict SG: Forbes
Big forward: DeMarre Carroll
Big forward: Marcus Morris (eventually Samanic)
Strict Center: Eubanks or Combo big: Metu

2nd bench

Combo guard: Derrick White
Strict SG: Bryn Forbes
Wing: Beli (eventually Johnson) or Big forward: Demarre Carroll
Big forward: Marcus Morris (eventually Samanic)
Strict Center: Poetl


Notes:

-I'm glad Bertans is gone! he just didn't fit my predicted line-ups
-I had to seriously think a while on possible line-ups after the trades. we are seriously deep. to the point where I feel another trade is coming up. there is no room for our guards and Beli. i am guessing one of Forbes, Beli or Mills is traded next. probably for a pick, to be honest. we are deep in every position except strict center position.
-After watching summer league, im more inclined to put Samanic as a future 4 instead of a 3. That's where they've had him so far in line-ups. we really dont need him to be apart of the regular rotation this year.
-i think with the recent additions, we are for sure to see DeMar back to his natural position (SG). we have so many forwards who can play SF that he's practically forced down to SG. im glad the Spurs did this and it agrees with my original point that our defense suffered mightily with the lack of length at the SF position. major improvement
-i can definitely see us as top 10 offense AND top 5 defense next year. which means.... contender status next season.
-based off Lonnie Walker's summer league play, he is ready for prime time. he is for sure going to get minutes this year. that is why it was a struggle to come up with line-ups without realizing one of the guards has to go

[Seventyniner]

^ I think you're underestimating Morris's place in the rotation.

[Marcus Bryant]

A trade involving Mills and/or Bellinelli seems likely. I would keep one, not bad to have an extra shooter on the bench. Depends on the return, of course.

[John B]

We need that insurance defensive big. And it would have to be involving Mills or Belli. Mills falls when he starts to facilitate, and tries a bailout jumping pass out of position. That gets picked 11 out of 10 times. Belli is a streaky shooter, which is exactly it, streaky. It is great when they’re going in, but too much defensive liability negates any positive. He gets beat every time. One has to go. Belli’s contract is the lesser contract to absorb. I really hope it’s for a defensive center, maybe Baynes for his Spurs experience and culture back (if PATFO is so worried about losing culture). I would then say we’re stacked.

[Marcus Bryant]

Forum is assuming that Murray, White, Walker, and Forbes make big improvements next season.

[Dejounte]

Forum is assuming that Murray, White, Walker, and Forbes make big improvements next season.

Not even assuming Forbes and White make big improvements, but great if they do ... If Murray is even 70% of what he was prior to his injury, thats a major improvement. The only one im banking on having a solid improvement is Walker. He knows his spots now and theres no hesitation.

[John B]

Not even assuming Forbes and White make big improvements, but great if they do ... If Murray is even 70% of what he was prior to his injury, thats a major improvement. The only one im banking on having a solid improvement is Walker. He knows his spots now and theres no hesitation.
Seeing Walker handily score 28 points against Magic in 3 quarters was exciting. For now he is a erratic streaky scorer until he learns to slow down his game. He’s like a Lambo in a school zone. It will come with experience and time.