San Antonio's First Domino: Should The Spurs Give DeMar DeRozan A Contract Extension?

[timvp]

With the opening bell of free agency a week away, it appears as if the Spurs are destined for one of the NBA's quieter offseasons. After selecting three players in the draft -- two of which, Luka Samanic and Keldon Johnson, are sure to make the final roster -- and what appears to be the inevitable re-signing of Rudy Gay, San Antonio's roster is at or near capacity.

However, despite the apparent calm waters, there are a few major question marks bubbling beneath the surface. The first question that needs answered involves DeMar DeRozan and the possibility of the Spurs extending his contract.

Currently, DeRozan is on the books for $27.7 million next season. The following season, he holds a player option for another $27.7 million. If DeRozan doesn't pick up his option, he would become an unrestricted free agent next summer.

The Argument For Extending DeRozan's Contract

While it's clear DeRozan isn't a superstar who can carry his team to a championship single-handedly, he's still a borderline All-Star who can conceivably make an All-NBA team for a third time before his career comes to an end. He's not Kawhi Leonard, as Spurs fans know all too well, but he's a player who holds quite a bit of value.

The maximum the Spurs can offer DeRozan this summer is $149.1 million in a four-year extension that would run through the 2023-24 season. While a sizeable chunk of change, it actually represents a discount compared to the $174.6 million he could command next summer if he opts out and signs a max contract with a new team.

If the Spurs offer DeRozan that extension, he'd be hard-pressed to pass it up. The soon to be 30-year-old could lock in another gargantuan payday, while San Antonio could point to a potential savings of more than $25 million -- the difference between the extension and matching a max offer next summer.

The Spurs could also point to DeRozan's organizational fit as another motivating factor for extending his contract. While the four-time All-Star disappointed on the court at times last season, he was a seamless fit off the court and was regarded as a good influence on the team's youngsters.

An additional motivating factor for San Antonio would be the saving of face. The Leonard trade will go down as one of the most lopsided in the history of the sport; the annals of history won't clearly recall the countless mitigating factors that were working against the Spurs last summer. Having a player who can put up 20 points, six assists and six rebounds to show for Toronto's heist is more consoling than pointing at Jakob Poeltl as the eventual return.

Should The Spurs Do It?

DeRozan is a good player. He's a good guy, too, by all accounts.

That said, I think it'd be absolutely the wrong move to extend his contract. As productive as DeRozan can be (and was last season), there's never been proof that he helps a team win basketball games. His on-off numbers suggested the Raptors were always better when he was on the bench, even when he was racking up All-Star and All-NBA awards. In his first season in San Antonio, the phenomenon repeated itself, as the Spurs were five points better per 100 possessions with DeRozan on the bench than with DeRozan on the court. (That number spiked in the postseason to an unholy 25.8 points better with DeRozan on the bench.)

Additionally, with the wrong side of 30 quickly approaching, the Spurs would be purchasing the post-prime portion of DeRozan's career with the extension. Statistically, I look at two areas when estimating whether a player is losing athleticism: field goal percentage on shots at the rim and free throw rate.

While DeRozan's finishing percentage at the rim was very good in his first season with the Spurs, there was a concerning crash in his free throw rate. He averaged only 5.9 free throw attempts per 100 possessions, his lowest number in six seasons. That rate represents a 20% drop from his previous season and a 34% drop from his peak season. Considering DeRozan doesn't have a perimeter game to fall back on, any sign of diminished ability to successfully attack the rim is cause for concern.

What Will The Spurs Do?

I believe they will swallow their pride and not offer DeRozan a contract extension. I trust they know he isn't enough of a difference-maker to justify the extension.

In theory, the Spurs could offer DeRozan less than a max extension. But I don't see a middle ground that could be reached that would make sense for both sides. Even if, for example, the Spurs offer him $100 million over four years -- that is unlikely to work for either side.

For DeRozan, that would be a pay cut and he could reasonably conclude he can fetch more than that in the open market. For the Spurs, that's still too much to invest in a player who is annually a net negative from the perspective of on-off numbers.

For those who paid attention last season, I think there were some subtle hints that the Spurs don't necessarily see DeRozan as a long-term fit. First of all and most clearly, Pop wasn't bashful about stating on record that Derrick White was the team's second most important player behind LaMarcus Aldridge. That wasn't a purposeful shot at DeRozan, I don't think ... but it was the cold, unadulterated truth.

Secondly, Pop never seemed to push DeRozan too hard or react negatively when DeRozan picked up any of his team-high 11 technical fouls (or when he got ejected from a playoff game for tossing the ball at a ref, for that matter). Kid gloves for his first season or indifference for a temporary piece? Time will tell.

And, let's remember, there is precedence. Once upon a time, Derek Anderson was a similar player to DeRozan with similar standing in the league. Instead of overpaying a player who didn't do much to impact winning but could certainly produce numbers, the Spurs artfully dodged the bullet that was his eventual payday.

So, What Should The Spurs Do About DeRozan's Extension?

Nothing. I don't even think it's necessary to offer him an extension. Let DeRozan play out this season and see how it goes. If he suddenly figures out how to positively impact play, then the Spurs can consider doing something contractually next summer.

Between now and then, the picture will get a lot clearer. Not only will the Spurs have a better read on DeRozan, they will also -- more importantly -- have a better read on their up-and-coming perimeter players, namely Derrick White, Dejounte Murray and Lonnie Walker IV.

Can White be a long-term point guard? Can he be relied upon to space the floor as a shooter? Is Murray a point guard or shooting guard? Can he coexist with White? Can Murray and Walker stay healthy? Just how high is Walker's ceiling? These answers and more will be a lot closer to answered a year from now.

In the meantime, DeRozan remains a useful piece to the puzzle. With him around, White, Murray and Walker won't have to bite off more than they're ready to chew next season. And there remains a chance that DeRozan improves during his second season in San Antonio, as has become custom around these parts.

Should The Trade DeRozan?

If the Spurs aren't going to extend DeRozan, they have to at least consider trading him. What kind of player could they get in return? If they trade him to a team that is willing to absorb him into cap space, how does that impact what the Spurs can do in free agency this summer? What teams could be interested in him? Up next, I will investigate the possibilities.

[EricB]

No extension, but don’t salary dump. Try and get a Bradley Beal or see if Boston wants him since they’re desperate for guards now as well, guards who run offenses.

[paperboy77]

Don’t extend. Try to negotiate a rate both can live with or trade. Realistically what are his options? (I hadn’t thought of the Boston situation. That might work.). Front Office please don’t ruin the future by going with this guy as your top paid player.

[slick'81]

Please dear god trade his ass

[childishbambi]

Salary dump him; but whoever takes him has to take Mills and Belinelli too. Would rather have Brogdon (a 50 40 90 guy) for 25MM for the next 4 years.

[slick'81]

One of the most lopsided trades in the history of sports:wow

[Robz4000]

Please dear god trade his ass

[james evans]

It’s amazing how Demar went from being better than Kawhi to trading him lol

[vavvi]

I don't see a good trade tbh.
Probably we just roll with DeMar for a year and not offer him an extension.

[monty4329]

If he plays like last season, he will opt in and we are fucked for two years (three, actually). he will be untradeable.
if he plays well, he still opts in because nobody will offer him that kind of money anyway, but at least we might find somebody willing to trade for him next summer.

If we find a trade for him by some sort of miracle, or some reincarnation of SAC previous front office somewhere else, please dear god make PATFO go for it.

What a pity, the guy has a couple moves absolutely deadly, could still be a real force in the NBA. Obviously he is not mentally equipped for it, and absurdly stubborn -if Lopez could turn around his game at his age in such a positive way....

[RVSTX]

IF THE SPURS DONT EXTEND HIM FOR 150 MILLION THIS SUMMER, THEY PROBABLY DONT GIVE HIM THE 175 MILLION...AND HE PROBABLY WALKS FOR NOTHING...I THINK A TRADE IS THE ONLY OPTION, PAYING HIM 40 MILLION AT AGE 33 AND 34....TRADE HIM!

[Dejounte]

Wasnt there an "insider" here that said we wont extend him and that "dont be surprised if hes traded"?

[venitian navigator]

would you trade him for Wiggins and a first Minny pick next year? I know Minny already refused that trade some time ago, but now looks like they are hardly shopping Wiggins...and probably that's the only trade that could guarantee us some chance at lottery talent going forward...

[exstatic]

would you trade him for Wiggins and a first Minny pick next year? I know Minny already refused that trade some time ago, but now looks like they are hardly shopping Wiggins...and probably that's the only trade that could guarantee us some chance at lottery talent going forward...
Wiggins’ ass is more worthless than DD.

[acoelho1]

I would be shocked if the Spurs extend DeRozan this summer. Especially for someone with a below average defensive abilities and no 3pt shot. Further, the Spurs already have a pretty good idea on what they have in Murray, White & Walker so next season we'll see why they are so high on the trio. Also, they asked Walker to put on significant amount of weight this summer probably so he can spend time at the 3 spot.

Lastly, another question is will the Spurs trade DeRozan this summer or during next season? I think we will be contending next year with the rise of Murray and Walker so it's something they will need to carefully navigate. It probably makes more sense to trade him this summer and try to get another borderline all-star that fits the team better like the rumored interest in Bojan Bogdanović.

Either way, I'm really high on all our young guys and RC has done a masterful job infusing the team with young talent.

[tbdog]

LMA gave spurs a big discount despite asking for a trade. I can see Spurs giving DD that type of money.

[ceperez]

Like every Spurs star before him, he should take a discount!

[Dverde]

Trading him or letting him go would mean PATFO made a mistake in the trade. They won’t do it, maybe Demar leaves in FA next year. I’ve been bracing myself for the extensions. I can see them extending two of Demar, LMA, Dejounte this summer. They like Demar and about to double down on this squad.

[MaNu4Tres]

LMA gave spurs a big discount despite asking for a trade. I can see Spurs giving DD that type of money.

Not true.

The complexion of the market for LA was murky at best after coming off two down years, and a bad playoff series. Not only that, but him being on the other side of 30 didn't help.

His archiac style & skillset also lessened his value.

I would have imagined his agent did his job and sought out his market when giving him advice on the situation.

At the end of the day, LMA didnt necessarily take less considering the reality of his situation. He took the safe & fair route to secure great money.

Spurs only did it bc they saw what other teams could not that summer. That is the commitment he finally showed and the weight he finally lost.

[CGD]

Good write up. This is the decision to watch this summer, and I do think if they don’t reach an agreement the Spurs should move him to recoup some value.

[lmbebo]

Might be worth waiting on the ext. Only reason to extend, it may allow for a better trade? But not sure who would want him?

Trade him to land a different piece? DDR to Pacers? To Miami ?

[Genovaswitness]

where’s the kawhi write up

[Dejounte]

Extend him but only for a discount and if he agrees to take more of a mentorship role + come off the bench for the latter years of his contract.

[cd021]

Let him play out this year and let him walk when he opts out

[MaNu4Tres]

Great objective write up, Timvp.

I'll be shocked if DeMar is extended.

[sananspursfan21]

As much as I actually like the guy, for the right deal it has to be done. My only knock on him is his turning 30. For his type of player, I don’t know if that bodes well

[CGD]

I’m liking the Nets for him, if their Irving/Durant dream crumbles. They can go the Tobias Harris and DeRozen route.

[Ocotillo]

Maybe one of those complicated three way trades where Indiana is involved signing and trading Bodganovic (or however you spell his name). That way we can get BB, Indiana can pick up some assets and the third team gets Derozan.

[mo7888]

Great write up. I look forward to your 'investigating the possibilities' piece..

[Wu36]

Sacrificial lamb. Maybe H-E-B will take him.

[Drom John]

1) People want to salary dump players like Belinelli and Bertans for $17.8M, but letting DeRozan walk would "be for nothing"? Wrong, letting DeRozan walk would give the Spurs two more more years of DeRozan followed by $27M in capspace. (I was in the keep Leonard camp last summer.)

2) DeRozan is a good player, but not a $27M player. Looking at ESPN Real Plus Minus Wins, DeRozan was a $14.72M player last year, less valuable than Rudy Gay, more valuable than Derrick White. I would offer a "continuity" extension to DeRozan of 110% of his value ($16M), spread out Richard Jefferson style (extend a year to $27M/$21.5M/$21.5M.)

[SpurSpike]

Statistically, I look at two areas when estimating whether a player is losing athleticism: field goal percentage on shots at the rim and free throw rate.

While DeRozan's finishing percentage at the rim was very good in his first season with the Spurs, there was a concerning crash in his free throw rate. He averaged only 5.9 free throw attempts per 100 possessions, his lowest number in six seasons. That rate represents a 20% drop from his previous season and a 34% drop from his peak season. Considering DeRozan doesn't have a perimeter game to fall back on, any sign of diminished ability to successfully attack the rim is cause for concern.

While that is fair, it seemed the refs had a strange tendency to swallow the whistle on DDR almost the whole season. This is probably also part of the reason he got so many technical fouls. That kind of stuff will make you really frustrated! Still it seemed like he wanted to rely on the refs too much and it wasn't working out for him... i hope he learns from last season and keeps his cool a bit better.

I remember reading an article about Damian Lillard having a mental coach to help keep his cool under pressure, i think DDR could really benefit from some similar mental coaching tbh.

[tbdog]

Not true.

The complexion of the market for LA was murky at best after coming off two down years, and a bad playoff series. Not only that, but him being on the other side of 30 didn't help.

His archiac style & skillset also lessened his value.

I would have imagined his agent did his job and sought out his market when giving him advice on the situation.

At the end of the day, LMA didnt necessarily take less considering the reality of his situation. He took the safe & fair route to secure great money.

Spurs only did it bc they saw what other teams could not that summer. That is the commitment he finally showed and the weight he finally lost.

I disagree. Players like Ibaka 3 years 65 mil, Griffin 5 years 173mil, milsap 3 year 90mil. LMA extension was 3 years 72mil, which he signed in October, only a few months after those names.

Even if we agree on your analysis, you don't think DD extension of a similar number to lma's would be fair, safe money due to his style and skillset which has lessened his value and being on the other side of 30?

[Dverde]

PATFO don’t have the balls to trade DDR. It would hurt his feelings. Maybe if he requested a trade, but I don’t see that happening.

[BatManu20]

Wiggins’ ass is more worthless than DD.


Amd he’s got 4 more years of guaranteed Max money... big no thank you.

[Strategic]

Concerned of extending DD now because of a cold feet reaction to the KL saga. Screw that! Spurs are in a good spot with DD considering his age and per par learning curve to the Spurs system, and he’s not really breaking the bank yet. Stay the course and give the youth another year to improve, thus finding out if one or more of the kids looks like a future borderline all star. I think he was damn fortunate to get traded to the Spurs. The youth core is good enough for him to succeed if he’s able to lead. One more year will tell the tale.

[acoelho1]

Isn't the wise thing to do is see how Keldon Johnson Developes?

They are playing the same position so lets see how he responds to "the program". I'd imagine that after a year in Austin and on the regular team you'd know if what his ceiling and floor is.

If his limit is DDR with better 3 and D isn't a no brainer what the spurs should do? (RC and Pop take DDR "fishing" on a deep lake) Can't all this wait till next summer?

The problem with waiting is DDR can opt out after next year and if it's already been decided that we don't plan to extend him, he could walk for nothing next summer. Also, there will be teams losing out on the big free agents so perhaps we can get some quality return if traded this summer.

[RD2191]

DD and LMA are both career losers and chokers. Idgaf what they bring to the table if they can't get it done when it matters. Both can gtfo.

[Rummpd]

agree 100% this team needs a youth movement and unless DDR takes a huge pay cut has not proven worth near max money

[Dex]

Personally, I don't want to see DeMar extended. Not this summer, anyways.

After a year of watching him, I think we all can acknowledge the knocks on his game. Yes, he is very talented...he is an All-Star and All-NBA player, after all. But his stats seem mostly empty, and the team as a whole seems to perform better without him. He also has a tendency to shy away or get overwhelmed when the pressure comes on (aside from his couple of game-winners early in the season).

It would be a bad move for this team to hamstring their future solely for the fact of saving face in the shadow of the Kawhi trade. He hasn't done enough for the Spurs to earn anything close to a max extension. Give him one more season, see how he performs...and then we can talk extension, or let him walk and take the cap space.

That said...I do worry about "culture" being a double-edged sword here. I have a sinking feeling that the Spurs are going to offer him some type of extension due to his chemistry with the team, the circumstances he was brought in, and PATFO wanting to do "the right thing". I really hope I am wrong.

[look_at_g_shred]

Just trade him for whatever you can get. A future 1st and i'm happy.

[Big P]

I pray they don't extend him, but knowing the fo, I'm afraid they will.

[tenbeersbold]

While that is fair, it seemed the refs had a strange tendency to swallow the whistle on DDR almost the whole season. This is probably also part of the reason he got so many technical fouls. That kind of stuff will make you really frustrated! Still it seemed like he wanted to rely on the refs too much and it wasn't working out for him... i hope he learns from last season and keeps his cool a bit better.

I remember reading an article about Damian Lillard having a mental coach to help keep his cool under pressure, i think DDR could really benefit from some similar mental coaching tbh.

Yup DDR got the Spurs treatment from the refs for sure last season
He was getting mauled out there

[DPG21920]

Don’t think he’s extended but trading him just to trade him is not the best option. I won’t be super pissed if SA just dumps him, but I dont see any reason to do that and it’s not likely.

This season can still be a successful playoff season and unless you get something appealing (vs ONLY cap space next year) then just keep him and go as far as you can.

But as many have mentioned, trades absolutely need to be on the table if you know you aren’t extending him since this is the only time you can likely get + value (to what degree, unknown)

[pgardn]

Really nice write up.

[Mugen]

Personally, I don't want to see DeMar extended. Not this summer, anyways.

After a year of watching him, I think we all can acknowledge the knocks on his game. Yes, he is very talented...he is an All-Star and All-NBA player, after all. But his stats seem mostly empty, and the team as a whole seems to perform better without him. He also has a tendency to shy away or get overwhelmed when the pressure comes on (aside from his couple of game-winners early in the season).

It would be a bad move for this team to hamstring their future solely for the fact of saving face in the shadow of the Kawhi trade. He hasn't done enough for the Spurs to earn anything close to a max extension. Give him one more season, see how he performs...and then we can talk extension, or let him walk and take the cap space.

That said...I do worry about "culture" being a double-edged sword here. I have a sinking feeling that the Spurs are going to offer him some type of extension due to his chemistry with the team, the circumstances he was brought in, and PATFO wanting to do "the right thing". I really hope I am wrong.

It's coming, Dex. We both know it. The only way out is if Derozan signs off on a trade and FO finds a trade partner that he can live with. That way, the org offloads him without looking like the bad guy again.

They're obviously shook. They've been shook since the Nephew debacle. I don't think Pop/RC can take another reputation hit if they trade Derozan and he starts mouthing off at them like he did towards Masai.

[JeffDuncan]

The main problem with DDR is that he is only worth about half his contract price, as Drom John pointed out, above.

Extend him? Certainly not this summer. Preferably, never. He is not worth the money.

The Spurs really, seriously, need to stop overpaying for players. That profligate spending is hurting the team, badly.

[phxspurfan]

And, let's remember, there is precedence. Once upon a time, Derek Anderson was a similar player to DeRozan with similar standing in the league. Instead of overpaying a player who didn't do much to impact winning but could certainly produce numbers, the Spurs artfully dodged the bullet that was his eventual payday

Derek Anderson was exactly what we needed during the time he was here, before Juwan Howard took him out (still hate Juwan Howard for that). Also, the NBA was in a vastly different era back then, when volume scoring wings (cough MJ cough) were super important, regardless of if they could shoot 3s or defend. Now it seems the NBA will move back toward mobile bigs and passing, and less reliant on chucking endless 3s. It may be a nice middle ground from the past few years of endless chucking and Harden-esque ref gaming.

I digress, please offer DeRozan an extension as I still need 4 more years out of my new Spurs jersey. Thanks

[Genovaswitness]

Derek Anderson was exactly what we needed during the time he was here, before Juwan Howard took him out (still hate Juwan Howard for that). Also, the NBA was in a vastly different era back then, when volume scoring wings (cough MJ cough) were super important, regardless of if they could shoot 3s or defend. Now it seems the NBA will move back toward mobile bigs and passing, and less reliant on chucking endless 3s. It may be a nice middle ground from the past few years of endless chucking and Harden-esque ref gaming.

I digress, please offer DeRozan an extension as I still need 4 more years out of my new Spurs jersey. Thanks

what on earth possessed you to spend money on a derozan jersey

[illusioNtEk]

we should just trade off lma and DeRozan while there value is high... we ain't doing shit with these 2 anyways..
. Let's just rebuild and get high picks for 1 or 2 years.. then we go for a max player later along with solid role players

[phxspurfan]

Should The Trade DeRozan?

If the Spurs aren't going to extend DeRozan, they have to at least consider trading him. What kind of player could they get in return? If they trade him to a team that is willing to absorb him into cap space, how does that impact what the Spurs can do in free agency this summer? What teams could be interested in him? Up next, I will investigate the possibilities.

If we get picks and go full youth movement, LMA will most certainly be gone unless our young guys turn into world beaters a la Denver. We can basically say goodbye to LMA when his contract is up and let him go back to Portland off into the sunset.


But it might not be a bad move if we can get a few picks for DeRozan from some fools like the Knicks, or Wizards.

[phxspurfan]

what on earth possessed you to spend money on a derozan jersey

I was excited for the possibilities okay! And happy that I got to return my Kawhi jersey

[gambit1990]

don’t be surprised if the spurs extend him.

the people on ST who want him moved are likely the people who didn’t want him in the first place. spurs wanted demar for some reason :rolleyes even though he hasn’t had a great track record. PATFO like him cause he’s loyal, etc. pop wants to win on his terms...

[GreekSpursfan]

This is probably Pop's last year imo and that means that DDR will not be traded because i don't see a trade that can bring us more value back. Pop will try one more year to succeed with what we have but deep down he knows this team has a ceiling with DDR and LMA and that is WCF at the very best. I can see us trading him next summer when Becky takes over.

[DAF86]

There's no scenario where an extension makes sense. None. I hope PATFO do something sensible in terms of free agency for once in a long ass time.

[DPG21920]

Semi-related; LMA is probably in the same boat no?

[DAF86]

This is probably Pop's last year imo and that means that DDR will not be traded because i don't see a trade that can bring us more value back. Pop will try one more year to succeed with what we have but deep down he knows this team has a ceiling with DDR and LMA and that is WCF at the very best. I can see us trading him next summer when Becky takes over.

Pop just signed a three year deal.

[SpurSpike]

I don't think they extend him this year, DDR will be shopped (half heartedly) but the Spurs will only take a GREAT offer for him which they will not find... Maybe the fact that they couldn't find any serious takers in a trade will help give the Spurs a little leverage in negotiations next year if they want to keep him around?

[duncan2k5]

Trade

[look_at_g_shred]

we should just trade off lma and DeRozan while there value is high... we ain't doing shit with these 2 anyways..
. Let's just rebuild and get high picks for 1 or 2 years.. then we go for a max player later along with solid role players

[spurs10]

I don't see the Spurs extending him. If a great trade came along they'd have to consider it. However I don't see much happening this summer. We do have room for someone at the MLE I believe.

[NASpurs]

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBASpurs/comments/c4qcbt/san_antonios_first_domino_should_the_spurs_give/

I like how this thread was posted on reddit and some dude was downvoted to oblivion for dropping truth nukes with stats. The users there are such a joke.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBASpurs/comments/c4qcbt/san_antonios_first_domino_should_the_spurs_give/erxup66?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

[LaMarcus Bryant]

I think we either re-sign him and the bad FA moves continue, and slight chance we just let him walk.

The era of spurs unloading shit contracts for anything other than DeJuan Blair's powdered 30 year old knees type are over. No one wants to trade with SA unless the trade is absurdly in their favor.

[Mugen]

I think we either re-sign him and the bad FA moves continue, and slight chance we just let him walk.

The era of spurs unloading shit contracts for anything other than DeJuan Blair's powdered 30 year old knees type are over. No one wants to trade with SA unless the trade is absurdly in their favor.

:lol My dude, everybody should be lining up to trade with the Spurs after last summer.

[cool cat]

With LMA wanting to resign with Portland after this contract I wouldn't mind trading out DeMar this offseason, even if you don't get equal player value at least try to get a pick or 2. Then next off season trade off LMA while there is still a bit of value.

[JeffDuncan]

I think we either re-sign him and the bad FA moves continue, and slight chance we just let him walk.
...

The smart thing to do, financially, would be to let DDR walk when his contract expires. The way that contract is, there's no gain to be found in a trade. The Spurs would just dig themselves deeper. At some point the team has got to free up some serious money.

[Genovaswitness]

I was excited for the possibilities okay! And happy that I got to return my Kawhi jersey

Fair enough. Better than being an idiot like me and getting two kawhi jerseys the year he left

[MaNu4Tres]

Pop just signed a three year deal.

Doesn't mean anything. He has an option to retire after each year on his terms.

[baseline bum]

If DeRozan could develop a three point shot he'd be a max player easy. But I don't see how you could go from 15% to 40% in a year even with Chip Engelland who fixed Leonard's shot and Parker's shot to make them strong outside shooters. So I'd prefer see him traded this summer and would be mad AF if they extended him. I don't see how he can play with Murray next season even with Dejounte's improved jumper.

[baseline bum]

That said, I think it'd be absolutely the wrong move to extend his contract. As productive as DeRozan can be (and was last season), there's never been proof that he helps a team win basketball games. His on-off numbers suggested the Raptors were always better when he was on the bench, even when he was racking up All-Star and All-NBA awards. In his first season in San Antonio, the phenomenon repeated itself, as the Spurs were five points better per 100 possessions with DeRozan on the bench than with DeRozan on the court. (That number spiked in the postseason to an unholy 25.8 points better with DeRozan on the bench.)

Do you know what his off/on numbers were like early season vs late? It seemed like he was winning the Spurs games the first 20 or 30 games or so when the offense was red hot. By the time the games started mattering though he was pure frustration to watch. I wonder if that horrible playoffs on/off was just the culmination of a year long slide from good to terrible.

[KDKSpurs24]

If DeRozan could develop a three point shot he'd be a max player easy. But I don't see how you could go from 15% to 40% in a year even with Chip Engelland who fixed Leonard's shot and Parker's shot to make them strong outside shooters. So I'd prefer see him traded this summer and would be mad AF if they extended him. I don't see how he can play with Murray next season even with Dejounte's improved jumper.
He doesn’t even have to shoot 40% for us. I just want him to at least take them! He needs to work on it all summer and I’d be happy with 35% on about 3.5 attempts per game. That would drastically improve the team as a whole solely for the increased spacing

[Play Boban]

We need to run this incel out of town tbh.....

[Spurs Brazil]

Spurs should not extend his contract. But I'd keep him until see what White/Murray/Walker can do.

[K...]

Probably easyt to say " pop is retiring, we don't want to hamstring the next coach, let's play it out"... It's not certain pop will retire, but I assume pop will decide how much talent to defer vs the win now stuff. Also don't forget the value of a name player in selling tickets.

Getting value from DeRozan is fine, but letting pop go out in style is probably more a factor. Pop is a name too.

[slick'81]

What a shit situation to be in

[Mugen]

I just don't understand how you trade away arguably the best player in the league and still end up in this dilemma, just so you can sell more regular season tickets and a 7th seed to a fanbase that wouldn't have questioned your moves regardless.....

And as far as Demar goes, I like how the narrative around him was he was always adding something new to his game every summer....that is everything except a 3 pointer and average defense.....:lol

[baseline bum]

He doesn’t even have to shoot 40% for us. I just want him to at least take them! He needs to work on it all summer and I’d be happy with 35% on about 3.5 attempts per game. That would drastically improve the team as a whole solely for the increased spacing

At 15.6% last year I'm glad he didn't take many tbh. Engelland needs to completely remake his shot and if they're not doing that this summer DeRozan has to go.

[baseline bum]

I just don't understand how you trade away arguably the best player in the league and still end up in this dilemma, just so you can sell more regular season tickets and a 7th seed to a fanbase that wouldn't have questioned your moves regardless.....

And as far as Demar goes, I like how the narrative around him was he was always adding something new to his game every summer....that is everything except a 3 pointer and average defense.....:lol

The faggot bent us over. I still wish the Spurs would have just suspended him and made him sit out the season if he wanted out, especially after he went AWOL last year.

[DAF86]

Do you know what his off/on numbers were like early season vs late? It seemed like he was winning the Spurs games the first 20 or 30 games or so when the offense was red hot. By the time the games started mattering though he was pure frustration to watch. I wonder if that horrible playoffs on/off was just the culmination of a year long slide from good to terrible.

His off/on numbers actually improved as the season progressed.

[baseline bum]

His off/on numbers actually improved as the season progressed.

Wow, never would have guessed that. Wonder if it was just from getting a lot of minutes with White later in the season when the Spurs went from laughingstock to mediocre defensively.

[slick'81]

I just don't understand how you trade away arguably the best player in the league and still end up in this dilemma, just so you can sell more regular season tickets and a 7th seed to a fanbase that wouldn't have questioned your moves regardless.....

And as far as Demar goes, I like how the narrative around him was he was always adding something new to his game every summer....that is everything except a 3 pointer and average defense.....:lol


Atleast we got keldon johnson

[timvp]

Do you know what his off/on numbers were like early season vs late? It seemed like he was winning the Spurs games the first 20 or 30 games or so when the offense was red hot. By the time the games started mattering though he was pure frustration to watch. I wonder if that horrible playoffs on/off was just the culmination of a year long slide from good to terrible.

Good question...

Via NBA.com, here are DeRozan's on/off numbers by month:

October +8.5
November -6.0
December -15.4
January -11.3
February +7.5
March -9.5
April +25.7 (5 regular season games)
Playoffs -18.7

Pre and Post All-Star Game:

Pre All-Star -5.9
Post All-Star +0.4



Thinking back, DeRozan was really good to start the season. He slowed down in the winter and stayed pretty bad until the All-Star break. He was solid to good after the All-Star break. These numbers don't perfectly align with those observations but his December and January slump lines up with what we observed.

[spurs1990]

I wasn't born or raised a Spurs fan and admittedly only became one during Duncan's peak MVP seasons, but that's a good 17 years.
Extending a max offer to DeRozan would be the most deflating move for me in those 17 years. It'd really be hard to follow the team.

Even if it's just a four year deal, it means he's on the roster for 2020 (final current contract), 2021, 2022, 2023 and 2024.
Think about that Spurs fans... DeRozan being your anchor through the year 2024.

[GreekSpursfan]

Pop just signed a three year deal.

Pop can sign whatever deal he wants and still retire, the number of years means nothing and we all know it imo specifically in this case

[slick'81]

I wasn't born or raised a Spurs fan and admittedly only became one during Duncan's peak MVP seasons, but that's a good 17 years.
Extending a max offer to DeRozan would be the most deflating move for me in those 17 years. It'd really be hard to follow the team.

Even if it's just a four year deal, it means he's on the roster for 2020 (final current contract), 2021, 2022, 2023 and 2024.
Think about that Spurs fans... DeRozan being your anchor through the year 2024.

Rc and co cant b that stoopid

[DAF86]

Pop can sign whatever deal he wants and still retire, the number of years means nothing and we all know it imo specifically in this case

If he really had plans of retiring after next year he wouldn't have signed a three year deal this off season. I'm interested on hearing what signs have you seen that make you think Pop will retire after this upcoming season.

[slick'81]

If he really had plans of retiring after next year he wouldn't have signed a three year deal this off season. I'm interested on hearing what signs have you seen that make you think Pop will retire after this upcoming season.

exactly and with all the assistant coaching departures pop will likely play out those 3 seasons

[DPG21920]

It is surprising that one of your team’s best players doesn’t have positive trade value in most every situation. If that is true now, after DeRozan having a solid year, I don’t understand what the Spurs saw.

I don’t believe that to be true; I think he has value to plenty of teams and most teams aren’t lining up to give their best players away; even flawed ones.

[GreekSpursfan]

If he really had plans of retiring after next year he wouldn't have signed a three year deal this off season. I'm interested on hearing what signs have you seen that make you think Pop will retire after this upcoming season.

I hope he stays for all three years but i don't see it. If our season has the same ending as the one that just ended i don't see him coming back and that possibility is big imo.

[duncan2k5]

DD and LMA are both career losers and chokers. Idgaf what they bring to the table if they can't get it done when it matters. Both can gtfo.

This... The combination of LMA, DDR, Bryn Forbes and Patty Mills make this the only spurs team where I have disliked more than one person at a time (Richard Jefferson, Hedo, David West)

[duncan2k5]

we should just trade off lma and DeRozan while there value is high... we ain't doing shit with these 2 anyways..
. Let's just rebuild and get high picks for 1 or 2 years.. then we go for a max player later along with solid role players

This one gets it

[DPG21920]

Not totally related, but pretty funny :lol

1142131632599699456

And now you can cross Portland off of that list

But maybe 2 of the 5 on this list (SA and CHA) get one done together :wow

[phxspurfan]

Do you know what his off/on numbers were like early season vs late? It seemed like he was winning the Spurs games the first 20 or 30 games or so when the offense was red hot. By the time the games started mattering though he was pure frustration to watch. I wonder if that horrible playoffs on/off was just the culmination of a year long slide from good to terrible.

I think it was injury and usage too. He fell off a cliff when he got injured. He’s breaking down in his age

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I’m not a Derozan hater like some in here, but I agree with not extending him. If you can get value for him in trade, that would be great, but I’m not in favor of picking up a long-term contract for someone who merely would keep the Spurs in the middle of the pack. I’d rather see his deal expire and then use those dollars to retain the young guys as they develop.

[buujness]

I’m not a Derozan hater like some in here, but I agree with not extending him. If you can get value for him in trade, that would be great, but I’m not in favor of picking up a long-term contract for someone who merely would keep the Spurs in the middle of the pack. I’d rather see his deal expire and then use those dollars to retain the young guys as they develop.
Pretty much.

Spurs feel like bringing their young guys along at a deliberate pace while in a winning environment is the best way to develop talent. Given their track record, I'd say that that theory of theirs has a lot of merit to it.

I'd be shocked if they extended him this summer. If they don't offer one next summer, I'd say that that's a really good sign that the young guards are developing nicely to the point where they can just take over.

[ZeusWillJudge]

And as far as Demar goes, I like how the narrative around him was he was always adding something new to his game every summer....that is everything except a 3 pointer and average defense.....:lol

:lol Classic. And true.


All the Kawhi stuff is water under the bridge. It doesn't matter how the Spurs got here. At this point, I hate the thought of just letting him walk away, or paying someone with picks/players to take his contract. He's not walking away from that player option, so maybe the combination of his scoring and an expiring contract will give him some positive value. The problem is, if you don't extend him it's pretty much telling him that you're going to deal him the next year. A year of Demar DePression doesn't exactly sing to me either.

Spurs are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

[Chinook]

Why would you extend DeRozan, especially at the max? If DeMar wants to lock himself into a good, moveable deal like LMA did, you take that. But you don't just give him money because you're afraid he'll walk. I mean, yeah, you trade him if he wants to go. Otherwise, he should stay. It seems like talking to him about his future plans makes the most sense. After last off-season, I'm sure he'd appreciate the candor. If staying is something he wants, working with him on a deal with a lower APY (like $46M-$50M/2) should be good value for a guy who is still a starting level wing who can fill it up. If he wants to go, then you find a team that fits and you send him there for the best package. It's not hard unless you try to do the opposite of what he wants or if you cave and try to max him.

I do think the idea that teams are better without DeRozan is not right, to the point that it hurts the credibility of on/offs. I mean, yeah, going from him to a superstar is a clear upgrade. But thinking he can be measured by the same criterion as Beli or Green or even Beal just doesn't make sense. LMA barely has a positive on-off over his four seasons with the Spurs. But he's been either the best or second-best player that entire time, and the team wouldn't've made the playoffs without him. No, Bertans or Poeltl aren't better than Aldridge. They didn't help the team win more when they were on the court, or any of that other shit. You just gotta use some common sense here. DeRozan has been the best or second-best player on teams that have made the playoffs six straight seasons. Yes, he contributes to winning. A bunch of those scrubs that had higher numbers with him over the years have gone on to other teams and proceeded to not do jack to get their teams into the post-season.

[Seventyniner]

If +/- or on/off was all that mattered, the Spurs should have maxed out Bonner at some point.

DDR is decent value right now. He isn't anywhere close to bad enough to warrant just straight up dumping his salary.

[venitian navigator]

Why would you extend DeRozan, especially at the max? If DeMar wants to lock himself into a good, moveable deal like LMA did, you take that. But you don't just give him money because you're afraid he'll walk. I mean, yeah, you trade him if he wants to go. Otherwise, he should stay. It seems like talking to him about his future plans makes the most sense. After last off-season, I'm sure he'd appreciate the candor. If staying is something he wants, working with him on a deal with a lower APY (like $46M-$50M/2) should be good value for a guy who is still a starting level wing who can fill it up. If he wants to go, then you find a team that fits and you send him there for the best package. It's not hard unless you try to do the opposite of what he wants or if you cave and try to max him.

I do think the idea that teams are better without DeRozan is not right, to the point that it hurts the credibility of on/offs. I mean, yeah, going from him to a superstar is a clear upgrade. But thinking he can be measured by the same criterion as Beli or Green or even Beal just doesn't make sense. LMA barely has a positive on-off over his four seasons with the Spurs. But he's been either the best or second-best player that entire time, and the team wouldn't've made the playoffs without him. No, Bertans or Poeltl aren't better than Aldridge. They didn't help the team win more when they were on the court, or any of that other shit. You just gotta use some common sense here. DeRozan has been the best or second-best player on teams that have made the playoffs six straight seasons. Yes, he contributes to winning. A bunch of those scrubs that had higher numbers with him over the years have gone on to other teams and proceeded to not do jack to get their teams into the post-season.

totally agree...that said, in the light of staying with DDR long time, the point is just what you said and express what was the way things were handled by patfo before the Mills/Pau deals...aka you don't overpay for players. And in the perspective of a win it all team, DDR has enough skills to be a player worth the same or maybe just something more than Manu, but not for sure at Tim level. Its true that his best fit could be, in the next years, in a role a la Manu (from the bench so mantaining the team energy and talent level during all the game a high bar level)...the point is if he could be open to that and the consequences of that...in the perspective, that would mean limiting his minutes with positives being prolonging his career at a high level, so could be worth a 4 deal extension at a good price (15 to 20 millions x year?)...the bad for him would be that such deal (as undeservedly happened with Manu) could limit his chances at all stars games and could lower his general wiew as an all star player (but that's very debatable, considering that doing so he could become an important part of a team with better chances to compete again at elite level).

[Ice009]

Extend him but only for a discount and if he agrees to take more of a mentorship role + come off the bench for the latter years of his contract.

Why would you pay him huge money to come off the bench? I'd rather he be gone and pay a younger guy that money. Mentorship shouldn't cost that much.

[venitian navigator]

Why would you pay him huge money to come off the bench? I'd rather he be gone and pay a younger guy that money. Mentorship shouldn't cost that much.

bacause going forward he could be more valuable with less minutes and starting from the bench than as a starter...does the word Manu reminds you something?

[John B]

He needs to prove he’s a franchise player by closing the game, playing the best defense, staying in the court by not getting T’d. He needs to hoisting 500 3 pointers a day. Let’s see how he comes out this year

[JeffDuncan]

Extending DDR beyond his current contract would be insane. It would be the act of a lunatic.

Just saying.

When DDR's current contract expires, buy him some Jack-in-the-Box to go, hand him the bag, and wave goodbye.

Then spend that entire $27.7 million on SOMEBODY ELSE. Who can shoot 3s, and play defense. And who actually fits on the team.

The sooner the Spurs return to fiscal sanity, the sooner they will be contenders again. It is not smart, or even sane, to try to run the Spurs as if the team were a Venezuelan oil company.

[TimDunkem]

He is what he is and doesn't fit the team. Trade him.

[Chinook]

People talk too much about guys fitting the team. The team only has one piece around which guys have to fit: LMA. No one should care about how guys fit around Murray, White, Walker, Samanic or Jackson until/unless they become good enough to warrant that talk. Obviously in the ideal situation where the Spurs have three young, productive and dynamic guards, a small-wing who can't shoot or play strong D makes little sense. But a world where the Spurs have the option of adding an elite three-and-D wing (or two), DeRozan is just better than any of the guards. Hell, DeMar even fits fine if Walker develops to where he and White (or Murray if DJM proves able to shoot) can start with DeRozan and the Spurs sign someone like Aminu. Hell, in those scenarios I posted where the Spurs trade for Bogdanovic and sign a PF, DeRozan fits just fine. Let the young guys learn to play off other guys, because it'll help them play off each other in the future.

I get trading DeRozan because you're okay the risk of taking a step back and missing the playoffs. I don't get folks not acknowledging that real risk. None of those guys is better than DeRozan. Might they be in the future? Sure. But not yet. Two of them have injuries to worry about. The Spurs would have missed the playoffs without DMDR, and they could do so this year if he's traded just to get him off the team.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Why would you extend DeRozan, especially at the max? If DeMar wants to lock himself into a good, moveable deal like LMA did, you take that. But you don't just give him money because you're afraid he'll walk. I mean, yeah, you trade him if he wants to go. Otherwise, he should stay. It seems like talking to him about his future plans makes the most sense. After last off-season, I'm sure he'd appreciate the candor. If staying is something he wants, working with him on a deal with a lower APY (like $46M-$50M/2) should be good value for a guy who is still a starting level wing who can fill it up. If he wants to go, then you find a team that fits and you send him there for the best package. It's not hard unless you try to do the opposite of what he wants or if you cave and try to max him.

I do think the idea that teams are better without DeRozan is not right, to the point that it hurts the credibility of on/offs. I mean, yeah, going from him to a superstar is a clear upgrade. But thinking he can be measured by the same criterion as Beli or Green or even Beal just doesn't make sense. LMA barely has a positive on-off over his four seasons with the Spurs. But he's been either the best or second-best player that entire time, and the team wouldn't've made the playoffs without him. No, Bertans or Poeltl aren't better than Aldridge. They didn't help the team win more when they were on the court, or any of that other shit. You just gotta use some common sense here. DeRozan has been the best or second-best player on teams that have made the playoffs six straight seasons. Yes, he contributes to winning. A bunch of those scrubs that had higher numbers with him over the years have gone on to other teams and proceeded to not do jack to get their teams into the post-season.

:tu

Great post. Perfectly stated.

[XDT76]

totally agree...that said, in the light of staying with DDR long time, the point is just what you said and express what was the way things were handled by patfo before the Mills/Pau deals...aka you don't overpay for players. And in the perspective of a win it all team, DDR has enough skills to be a player worth the same or maybe just something more than Manu, but not for sure at Tim level. Its true that his best fit could be, in the next years, in a role a la Manu (from the bench so mantaining the team energy and talent level during all the game a high bar level)...the point is if he could be open to that and the consequences of that...in the perspective, that would mean limiting his minutes with positives being prolonging his career at a high level, so could be worth a 4 deal extension at a good price (15 to 20 millions x year?)...the bad for him would be that such deal (as undeservedly happened with Manu) could limit his chances at all stars games and could lower his general wiew as an all star player (but that's very debatable, considering that doing so he could become an important part of a team with better chances to compete again at elite level).

If Derozan is agreeable to 15-20 mil per year, I am okay to extend him for a few more years. He is still effective in getting points and we should not start to overpay the young players before they had show that they deserved it. LMA probably would be gone after this contract. If Derozan demands too much then we would have to hope that a combination of Murray and Walker will be able to fill his offence.

[John B]

If Derozan is agreeable to 15-20 mil per year, I am okay to extend him for a few more years. He is still effective in getting points and we should not start to overpay the young players before they had show that they deserved it. LMA probably would be gone after this contract. If Derozan demands too much then we would have to hope that a combination of Murray and Walker will be able to fill his offence.
:lmao Demar agreeing to 15-20 mil a year. He’s turning 30 and could be his last big contract. I just hope he’s busting his ass shooting 3’s and working in better defense. Because I’m sure he’s not leaving any money. Should Spurs pay him? Let him prove himself first.

[XDT76]

If he cannot really shoot the 3, I struggle to see any team offering him a contract above 20 mil, maybe a desperate team will offer him 25mil

[Dejounte]

Why would you pay him huge money to come off the bench? I'd rather he be gone and pay a younger guy that money. Mentorship shouldn't cost that much.

Thats why i said discount. Also he would start for the first two years until one of the young players take over. No young guy is going to get paid big money until possibly two years anyway. Paying DeMar big money now doesnt affect anything.

[tbdog]

If he cannot really shoot the 3, I struggle to see any team offering him a contract above 20 mil, maybe a desperate team will offer him 25mil

I've been saying this all along, I think he gets 72mil over 3 years. Bonus points if the spurs get him to agree that the extension starts a year early.

[duncan2k5]

Thank GOD we never traded for Melo... Because some of u would be arguing to the death to keep him because of his talent and numbers...

[duncan2k5]

I don't get it... If he wasn't on our team, there's NO WAY we would want him... We see how useless and empty his stats are... We have seen the chokes... He is the type of player we used to laugh at... Now we are like "maybe next year will be the year he finally gets it."
Well Toronto has been saying that for YEARS and immediately won when he left

[Genovaswitness]

I’d rather have melo than derozan today. neither play any D but at least melo can shoot

[BillMc]

People talk too much about guys fitting the team. The team only has one piece around which guys have to fit: LMA. No one should care about how guys fit around Murray, White, Walker, Samanic or Jackson until/unless they become good enough to warrant that talk. Obviously in the ideal situation where the Spurs have three young, productive and dynamic guards, a small-wing who can't shoot or play strong D makes little sense. But a world where the Spurs have the option of adding an elite three-and-D wing (or two), DeRozan is just better than any of the guards. Hell, DeMar even fits fine if Walker develops to where he and White (or Murray if DJM proves able to shoot) can start with DeRozan and the Spurs sign someone like Aminu. Hell, in those scenarios I posted where the Spurs trade for Bogdanovic and sign a PF, DeRozan fits just fine. Let the young guys learn to play off other guys, because it'll help them play off each other in the future.

I get trading DeRozan because you're okay the risk of taking a step back and missing the playoffs. I don't get folks not acknowledging that real risk. None of those guys is better than DeRozan. Might they be in the future? Sure. But not yet. Two of them have injuries to worry about. The Spurs would have missed the playoffs without DMDR, and they could do so this year if he's traded just to get him off the team.

THIS

[Keepin' it real]

Just trade him for whatever you can get. A future 1st and i'm happy.

Exactly, I mean, that's what this whole enterprise is about ... your​ happiness.

[GreekSpursfan]

DDR is not getting traded this summer, we need to get this out of our heads. There are three scenarios for next summer or a little earlier.
1) He plays like he did this season , he realises that he won't find a better contract for the following season and opts in. In this scenario we need to trade him. Most probable.
2) He plays lights out, we somehow go to the WCF and he opts out of his contract. In this case we say bye felicia. Less probable
3) He plays like the first scenario or worse, Pop can't stand him any more and we attempt to trade him at the trade deadline in february. This scenario has a 50/50 chance imo.

[weebo]

I said it in the other thread. With GS and Houston in disarray, the West is as wide open as it has been in years...hold on to Demar and at best he's improved over last year and at worst you let him walk and free up cap space...besides you won't be getting fair trade value because no one is going to give you much for him anyway...also you have to factor in what he means to the team.... he seems like a good guy and having a guy like that around to mentor the rooks and the younger guys on the team is always a good thing..

[look_at_g_shred]

If he's not traded next month, I believe going into the season both sides would be on the same page that next summer will be the end of him in a spurs uni..

[look_at_g_shred]

Exactly, I mean, that's what this whole enterprise is about ... your​ happiness.
Keepin' it real

[Big Empty]

If Aldridge turns into a 3 point shooter like Gasol over in Toronto, does DeMar fit better or is it better for DeMar to be the one to take more 3’s? The thing is, last year there were times we’d put up 120 points and STILL get beat. The scoring is there although he can improve on 3’s. I think its our defense that needs help. We need one goto defender that can score and we’ll be alright.

[DPG21920]

People talk too much about guys fitting the team. The team only has one piece around which guys have to fit: LMA. No one should care about how guys fit around Murray, White, Walker, Samanic or Jackson until/unless they become good enough to warrant that talk. Obviously in the ideal situation where the Spurs have three young, productive and dynamic guards, a small-wing who can't shoot or play strong D makes little sense. But a world where the Spurs have the option of adding an elite three-and-D wing (or two), DeRozan is just better than any of the guards. Hell, DeMar even fits fine if Walker develops to where he and White (or Murray if DJM proves able to shoot) can start with DeRozan and the Spurs sign someone like Aminu. Hell, in those scenarios I posted where the Spurs trade for Bogdanovic and sign a PF, DeRozan fits just fine. Let the young guys learn to play off other guys, because it'll help them play off each other in the future.

I get trading DeRozan because you're okay the risk of taking a step back and missing the playoffs. I don't get folks not acknowledging that real risk. None of those guys is better than DeRozan. Might they be in the future? Sure. But not yet. Two of them have injuries to worry about. The Spurs would have missed the playoffs without DMDR, and they could do so this year if he's traded just to get him off the team.

Agree mostly but SA without Kawhi/DeRozan made the playoffs. They are deeper than that team unless you think so many others in the West improved enough to knock SA out?

[Chinook]

Agree mostly but SA without Kawhi/DeRozan made the playoffs. They are deeper than that team unless you think so many others in the West improved enough to knock SA out?

They aren't deeper than that team, especially with LMA being older. Yes, though, the West did improve. Both Denver and LAL missed the playoffs that year.

[DPG21920]

They aren't deeper than that team, especially with LMA being older. Yes, though, the West did improve. Both Denver and LAL missed the playoffs that year.

Dejounte should be at that level if not more. White wasn’t even in the rotation and he’s now a legit rotation player. Poeltl helps out across the board. Lonnie is going to be in the mix and Forbes is improved. Not to mention Rudy and/or a free agent addition?

I don’t see, unless LMA takes a big step back, how this team is not better/deeper than that one.

[Big P]

If he cannot really shoot the 3, I struggle to see any team offering him a contract above 20 mil, maybe a desperate team will offer him 25mil

It's ok...the Spurs will outbid themselves like they did with pau and give him a 3 year $65 mil extension.

[DeadlyDynasty]

max extension

[SAGirl]

I think first the ball is on Derozan court as he has a player option. Then it depends on if the Spurs are ready for "the Process" or not. Some of us argue they should have gone the Process way as soon as they knew Leonard was on his way out and couldn't be persuaded. Unfortunately that's not what they did. They chose to want to remain competitive and I don't think they are about to switch gears. Meaning, should somebody want to trade an Anthony Davis for Derozan they would do it but short of that they were standing put. As to the extension I suspect they wait until the last moment to make up their minds (like they did with Aldridge) to take into account the development of their young prospects and their potential contracts into effect as well as any possible FA they think they can land.

[JeffDuncan]

I don't get it...


They are the ones who don't get it. You've got it, perfectly.



If he wasn't on our team, there's NO WAY we would want him...


Absolutely right, of course.

DDR is not going anyplace until his contract expires. The reasons are simple.

1) He wants the $27.7 million/year we stupidly agreed to pay him.

2) No other team is stupid enough to give us that much value for him, in a trade. Because he is not worth it.

We are stuck with DDR, for the duration of his contract. And that's the good outcome.

The bad outcome would be if PATFO does trade him, because they would have to go further underwater to do it. Which would mean even more of a financial loss.

Does anybody, at this point, trust PATFO to make a financially sensible trade, where the Spurs come out ahead on the money? I sure don't.

Add together the money being paid to Mills and to DDR next season. It is 12.5 + 27.7, which is over FORTY MILLION DOLLARS, tied up in just those two marginal characters.

That's why we can't have anything good.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I just don't understand how you trade away arguably the best player in the league and still end up in this dilemma, just so you can sell more regular season tickets and a 7th seed to a fanbase that wouldn't have questioned your moves regardless.....

And as far as Demar goes, I like how the narrative around him was he was always adding something new to his game every summer....that is everything except a 3 pointer and average defense.....:lol

The team was built around Kawhi's skill set. It is going to take more than one season to adjust. As far as the fan base not questioning, I am a season ticket holder and there were more empty seats last year than I have ever seen and it wasn't close. That was with a team that was still a playoff team. It was somewhat depressing going to some of the games. If they decided to just tank it would have hit them hard in the pocket which is something I don't believe a small market team like the Spurs can take.

[Mugen]

The team was built around Kawhi's skill set. It is going to take more than one season to adjust. As far as the fan base not questioning, I am a season ticket holder and there were more empty seats last year than I have ever seen and it wasn't close. That was with a team that was still a playoff team. It was somewhat depressing going to some of the games. If they decided to just tank it would have hit them hard in the pocket which is something I don't believe a small market team like the Spurs can take.

Fair points tbh but, man, that trade was rough. Regardless of what Nephew did, deciding on the Raps haul was just a huge misstep by the FO that will probably set them back at least 5-10 years.

[duncan2k5]

I hate to hear the narrative that the team was built around Kawhi... How??? The FO would have put that team together even if Kawhi wasn't as good as he was... Kawhi was just so good that he makes any shit roster a contender

[Chinook]

Fair points tbh but, man, that trade was rough. Regardless of what Nephew did, deciding on the Raps haul was just a huge misstep by the FO that will probably set them back at least 5-10 years.

Eh, that's not really justifiable. The packages were shit. The best path forward I can think of would have been Harris and 13 for Leonard then flipping Harris for the same package Philly gave LAC for him. I'm not sure that there's any piece there that is a bona fide core piece. Sure, there are fantasy scenarios like Harris, Beverly, 12 and 13 for Leonard and Mills that could have set the team up for a quick turnaround. In that same vein, we talked about deals similar to the NOP package but without the picks and them rerouting some of that LAL junk for a decent haul. But the reports suggest that everyone held back. I can totally understand why PATFO read DeRozan, Poeltl and a pick as being the best deal at the time.

Whether they should have even made the trade is a different matter. Maybe they should have played hardball with the league and kept Kawhi until someone upped their offer. Maybe they should have done whatever it took to keep Leonard, including firing staff and moving on from players. Maybe they should have just decided to run it back anyway, made the rumored trade for that third star and made a serious run at a sixth title before risking Kawhi walking. Without being in the locker room, I think there are good arguments for all of those ideas. But I think that's different than saying the Spurs chose the wrong trade out of the ones offered.

[Mugen]

Eh, that's not really justifiable. The packages were shit. The best path forward I can think of would have been Harris and 13 for Leonard then flipping Harris for the same package Philly gave LAC for him. I'm not sure that there's any piece there that is a bona fide core piece. Sure, there are fantasy scenarios like Harris, Beverly, 12 and 13 for Leonard and Mills that could have set the team up for a quick turnaround. In that same vein, we talked about deals similar to the NOP package but without the picks and them rerouting some of that LAL junk for a decent haul. But the reports suggest that everyone held back. I can totally understand why PATFO read DeRozan, Poeltl and a pick as being the best deal at the time.

Whether they should have even made the trade is a different matter. Maybe they should have played hardball with the league and kept Kawhi until someone upped their offer. Maybe they should have done whatever it took to keep Leonard, including firing staff and moving on from players. Maybe they should have just decided to run it back anyway, made the rumored trade for that third star and made a serious run at a sixth title before risking Kawhi walking. Without being in the locker room, I think there are good arguments for all of those ideas. But I think that's different than saying the Spurs chose the wrong trade out of the ones offered.

Yeah, my argument isn't that the Spurs decided on the wrong trade (though the Clippers offer would have been much better in hindsight) but that they decided to trade him at all like you said. Couldn't have predicted the Warriors falling apart at the end of the playoffs but you could have probably predicted that there was a pretty good chance they'd be stuck in a Derozan dilemma like they are now tbh.

[$pursDynasty]

I wouldn't just give him away, he has talent it would either have to be for a good up and coming but cost effective talent, OR if we could package that albatross of the Patty Mills deal with it. Otherwise as stated before let him play it out and see. I don't see him as a max guy and giving max contracts to non max guys is bad business.

[TheCerebral1]

NO. This isn't the face of the franchise. We don't need ball hogging, no defense, needs 30 shots to get 30 points, bums.

[MaNu4Tres]

I think first the ball is on Derozan court as he has a player option. Then it depends on if the Spurs are ready for "the Process" or not. Some of us argue they should have gone the Process way as soon as they knew Leonard was on his way out and couldn't be persuaded. Unfortunately that's not what they did. They chose to want to remain competitive and I don't think they are about to switch gears. Meaning, should somebody want to trade an Anthony Davis for Derozan they would do it but short of that they were standing put. As to the extension I suspect they wait until the last moment to make up their minds (like they did with Aldridge) to take into account the development of their young prospects and their potential contracts into effect as well as any possible FA they think they can land.

Help me out here. What makes you think losing DeMar would send the Spurs into the deep lottery, or on a downward spiral in the direction of " The Process"?

What makes him such a dynamic game changer?

I see him as an empty stats Milwaukee Richard Jefferson. A taller Lou Williams w out the 3 ball. A prime Jamal Crawford without a 3 ball.

Why do Spurs fans think so highly.of him?

I. Dont. Get. It.

You can point to his high usage 20/6 like when RJ got 20/5 all you want. I. Dont. See. It.

The guy is only effective with the ball I'm his hands, and in the half-court ( against any team w a brain) he resorts to twirling/spinning back downs into the post for a 15 ft fade-away after the D goes under the PnR.

He is a bad fit with many players offensively bc of his inability to play off the ball. And hes a bad team defender, with minimal intangibles that are conducive to winning basketball.

Due to the heaps of young talent the Spurs have at his position, I don't think the Spurs would miss a beat without him.

[Dennis the Menace]

Help me out here. What makes you think losing DeMar would send the Spurs into the deep lottery, or on a downward spiral in the direction of " The Process"?

What makes him such a dynamic game changer?

I see him as an empty stats Milwaulee Richard Jefferson...a taller Lou William's w out the 3 ball.

A prime Jamal Crawford without a 3 ball.

Why do Spurs fans think so highly.of him?

I. Dont. Get. It.

1) He will go full depressed mode and be even more worthless if the overwhelming Spurs fans turned on him
2) Majority of people actually know he’s an empty stats, net negative player not worth a max contract. Fans say good things about him so that other teams don’t realize his lack of talent. Hence, it’s all a ploy to keep his trade value up while internally knowing he has major flaws

[Legacy]

His heart is still broken from having to leave Toronto. :(

[cutewizard]

In Pop we trust

[cutewizard]

I want a wet pussy rt now

[Legacy]

#2 would never deserve anything like this from the city of SA...

Klx7CwXt504

that's for sure....

[Legacy]

I want a wet pussy rt now

You're a girl, though... right...? :nerd

[Legacy]

... for sure SURE!!

Ra4BQn1YSt4

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

You're a girl, though... right...? :nerd

I’m pretty sure it’s a random word generating spam bot.

[duncan2k5]

Help me out here. What makes you think losing DeMar would send the Spurs into the deep lottery, or on a downward spiral in the direction of " The Process"?

What makes him such a dynamic game changer?

I see him as an empty stats Milwaukee Richard Jefferson. A taller Lou Williams w out the 3 ball. A prime Jamal Crawford without a 3 ball.

Why do Spurs fans think so highly.of him?

I. Dont. Get. It.

You can point to his high usage 20/6 like when RJ got 20/5 all you want. I. Dont. See. It.

The guy is only effective with the ball I'm his hands, and in the half-court ( against any team w a brain) he resorts to twirling/spinning back downs into the post for a 15 ft fade-away after the D goes under the PnR.

He is a bad fit with many players offensively bc of his inability to play off the ball. And hes a bad team defender, with minimal intangibles that are conducive to winning basketball.

Due to the heaps of young talent the Spurs have at his position, I don't think the Spurs would miss a beat without him.

Finally someone with common sense

[EasyMoney]

Demar deserves the 5 year max.


Marco Belinelli also deserves one max deal for his loyalty to the spurs. #loyaltycontract

[look_at_g_shred]

Finally someone with common sense
Demar does suck, and he's a proven net negative player, but what's the sense in bitching about it 24/7? PATFO are going to do what they want. Get used to it because he's here for the short term.

[DPG21920]

1144242898243862528

Looks like CHA is losing Kemba. No idea what CHA is doing here. They are going to suck. Probably means they wouldn’t want DeRozan possibly now either?

[GreekSpursfan]

1144242898243862528

Looks like CHA is losing Kemba. No idea what CHA is doing here. They are going to suck. Probably means they wouldn’t want DeRozan possibly now either?

MJ finally realising that this treadmill shit went too long and goes hinkie mode or he still remains dumb as fuck and we can take advantage of him and somehow dump DDR there. I would try it tbh.

[SAGirl]

Help me out here. What makes you think losing DeMar would send the Spurs into the deep lottery, or on a downward spiral in the direction of " The Process"?

What makes him such a dynamic game changer?

I see him as an empty stats Milwaukee Richard Jefferson. A taller Lou Williams w out the 3 ball. A prime Jamal Crawford without a 3 ball.

Why do Spurs fans think so highly.of him?

I. Dont. Get. It.

You can point to his high usage 20/6 like when RJ got 20/5 all you want. I. Dont. See. It.

The guy is only effective with the ball I'm his hands, and in the half-court ( against any team w a brain) he resorts to twirling/spinning back downs into the post for a 15 ft fade-away after the D goes under the PnR.

He is a bad fit with many players offensively bc of his inability to play off the ball. And hes a bad team defender, with minimal intangibles that are conducive to winning basketball.

Due to the heaps of young talent the Spurs have at his position, I don't think the Spurs would miss a beat without him.
I am not disputing any of that but rather projecting what the Spurs will do based on their past actions and past preference, read again. They were the ones who chose a package centered on Derozan bc they valued him highly. For me the process is defined as more than tanking. It’s actually prioritizing the acquisition and development of young talent with the intention of finding one or two sufficiently spectacular talents to build around. They have some young talent through luck and smart drafting but it remains to be seen if they are transcendent yet, which I don’t mind. But if you have some young talent you think it’s transcendent you don’t bury them behind 50, Derozan. Belli, etc.

[Big Empty]

If Kawhi joins the Lakers its rebuilding mode. Even with a scrub bench noone is beating the Lakers so we might as well get that lottery pic next hear and develop our youngsters while obtaining a future first rounder to go with our lotter pic next summer. If Kawhi doesnt join the Lakers the league will still be up for grabs next year so we keep DeMar

[Leetonidas]

If Kawhi joins the Lakers its rebuilding mode. Even with a scrub bench noone is beating the Lakers so we might as well get that lottery pic next hear and develop our youngsters while obtaining a future first rounder to go with our lotter pic next summer. If Kawhi doesnt join the Lakers the league will still be up for grabs next year so we keep DeMar

Idk man. Kawhi and Davis are injury prone as fuck. If they sign Kawhi they won't be able to fill the roster and that load management shit isn't getting them a top seed when Leonard sits 20 games, Davis misses his annual 15 games, and LeBron is also getting older.

When Durant went to GS everyone was saying they're going to win 10 chips in a row. Same with LBJ and Miami. Things can change very quickly in the nba

[daslicer]

If Kawhi joins the Lakers its rebuilding mode. Even with a scrub bench noone is beating the Lakers so we might as well get that lottery pic next hear and develop our youngsters while obtaining a future first rounder to go with our lotter pic next summer. If Kawhi doesnt join the Lakers the league will still be up for grabs next year so we keep DeMar

Tanking is not a viable solution anymore due to the NBA now decreasing the odds of teams with the worst records of getting the top picks.

[Big Empty]

Tanking is not a viable solution anymore due to the NBA now decreasing the odds of teams with the worst records of getting the top picks.
It wouldnt be tanking we simply would miss the playoffs developing our young prospects without LA/DD, even with them there isnt a guarantee we make it.

[MaNu4Tres]

I am not disputing any of that but rather projecting what the Spurs will do based on their past actions and past preference, read again. They were the ones who chose a package centered on Derozan bc they valued him highly. For me the process is defined as more than tanking. It’s actually prioritizing the acquisition and development of young talent with the intention of finding one or two sufficiently spectacular talents to build around. They have some young talent through luck and smart drafting but it remains to be seen if they are transcendent yet, which I don’t mind. But if you have some young talent you think it’s transcendent you don’t bury them behind 50, Derozan. Belli, etc.

They chose DeRozan because that package offered the most value wise.

What people are not aware of is that Spurs passed on the Clips deal draft day bc they 1) Had hope Pop can still get his visit & change Kawhi's mind. 2) They wanted to wait for a better offer after dust cleared in FA.

They whiffed at both of those because most teams were not giving anything up for a year of Kawhi. And Kawhi was as good as gone -- and they knew that but still wanted one last swing.

So Spurs took the best and only real value offer out there in mid July. Had nothing to do with seeing DeMar as a big part of the future. It had to do with getting the value and worrying about the rest later.

I've heard after the fact, Spurs regretted not taking the Clips deal around the draft, but that's the gamble they lost.

I dont think they view DeMar as centerpiece, hell they think higher of Derrick.

And injuries derailed the chances of Pop letting Dejounte & Lonnie loose last year. That's why they didnt play over Marco or Patty. Some I've heard are comparing Lonnie to a Butler and they are a lot higher on him than you think.

[mo7888]

1144242898243862528

Looks like CHA is losing Kemba. No idea what CHA is doing here. They are going to suck. Probably means they wouldn’t want DeRozan possibly now either?

Possibly, but it might mean the opposite. Many believe that Michael doesn't really care about winning he just wants to sell tickets and stay under the tax. If that is true he might see DDR as a way to sell tickets after the loss of their franchise player.

[SAGirl]

They chose DeRozan because that package offered the most value wise.

What people are not aware of is that Spurs passed on the Clips deal draft day bc they 1) Had hope Pop can still get his visit & change Kawhi's mind. 2) They wanted to wait for a better offer after dust cleared in FA.

They whiffed at both of those because most teams were not giving anything up for a year of Kawhi. And Kawhi was as good as gone -- and they knew that but still wanted one last swing.

So Spurs took the best and only real value offer out there in mid July. Had nothing to do with seeing DeMar as a big part of the future. It had to do with getting the value and worrying about the rest later.

I've heard after the fact, Spurs regretted not taking the Clips deal around the draft, but that's the gamble they lost.

I dont think they view DeMar as centerpiece, hell they think higher of Derrick.

And injuries derailed the chances of Pop letting Dejounte & Lonnie loose last year. That's why they didnt play over Marco or Patty. Some I've heard are comparing Lonnie to a Butler and they are a lot higher on him than you think.
Well as you say, there’s a lot of “sauces” there that I don’t have.

It sucks that they gambled and missed so badly on all of their calculations with Kawhi, but that’s not what this thread is about and I don’t want to derail it. Thanks for the “info” though.

[Drom John]

Tanking is not a viable solution anymore due to the NBA now decreasing the odds of teams with the worst records of getting the top picks.

Tanking is more valuable now. The worst team chances decreased while the bad teams increased their lottery chance.

[Legacy]

Demar deserves the 5 year max.


Marco Belinelli also deserves one max deal for his loyalty to the spurs. #loyaltycontract

:tu :tu :tu

[Fusternino]

What sources claim Spurs regret not taking the Clippers' offer?

[duncan2k5]

Possibly, but it might mean the opposite. Many believe that Michael doesn't really care about winning he just wants to sell tickets and stay under the tax. If that is true he might see DDR as a way to sell tickets after the loss of their franchise player.

Sell tickets?? Lmfao! No one likes the guy

[ceperez]

1144242898243862528

Looks like CHA is losing Kemba. No idea what CHA is doing here. They are going to suck. Probably means they wouldn’t want DeRozan possibly now either?

Spurs have opportunity here to pick up some discards from Boston.

[RC_Drunkford]

I wasn't born or raised a Spurs fan and admittedly only became one during Duncan's peak MVP seasons, but that's a good 17 years.
Extending a max offer to DeRozan would be the most deflating move for me in those 17 years. It'd really be hard to follow the team.

Even if it's just a four year deal, it means he's on the roster for 2020 (final current contract), 2021, 2022, 2023 and 2024.
Think about that Spurs fans... DeRozan being your anchor through the year 2024.

We already got a taste of that with the Patty Mills contract. He's on the team for another 2 years

[coachmac87]

Help me out here. What makes you think losing DeMar would send the Spurs into the deep lottery, or on a downward spiral in the direction of " The Process"?

What makes him such a dynamic game changer?

I see him as an empty stats Milwaukee Richard Jefferson. A taller Lou Williams w out the 3 ball. A prime Jamal Crawford without a 3 ball.

Why do Spurs fans think so highly.of him?

I. Dont. Get. It.

You can point to his high usage 20/6 like when RJ got 20/5 all you want. I. Dont. See. It.

The guy is only effective with the ball I'm his hands, and in the half-court ( against any team w a brain) he resorts to twirling/spinning back downs into the post for a 15 ft fade-away after the D goes under the PnR.

He is a bad fit with many players offensively bc of his inability to play off the ball. And hes a bad team defender, with minimal intangibles that are conducive to winning basketball.

Due to the heaps of young talent the Spurs have at his position, I don't think the Spurs would miss a beat without him.



Bruh...you just compared him to Milwaukee RJ? Lmao.

DD has flaws but he was an ALL-NBA player homie coming into a NEW system off an emotional trade.

I’m all for listening to offers etc, but whoever thinks you can just dump him is an idiot tbh

[Genovaswitness]

fuck I can’t wait to see this fucking idiot not even attempt/brick 3s all year and clog the lane

[RC_Drunkford]

I agree we should let him play the year out and not extend him. With the west getting wide open and teams like the Jazz, Lakers, Blazers and maybe Rockets improving the Spurs should keep DeRozan around if they can bring in Bogdanovic through a sign and trade. That way you also have a clearer picture of where the young guys are at next summer.

The one thing why I'm against salary dumping DeMar is that you then lose bird rights on Rudy Gay. I'd move DeMar if you can trade him together with Patty or if you at least get a 1st-rounder back for DeRozan alone. Or move him at the deadline when you got a clearer picture on the young guys and somebody interesting becomes available. Letting him play here for another season makes the most sense I think. Just hope he somehow learns how to hit 3s

[pad300]

IMO, you let Demar play the rest of his contract, unless you can get fair value for him... which is a couple of FRP's and cap relief/space. You don't do an extension with him, unless it is (in modern NBA terms) cheap - which is to say < $75m/3 years. You evaluate at the end of the contract and make your decisions then...

PS. For the tomfools comparing him to RJ's. Demar actually put up a per game 21/6/6 line with us for a season (in 34.9 mpg). RJ peaked at 12.3/4.4/2.0 with us. His best season hit, 5 YEARS of decline before he got us, was 22.2/7.3/4.0 in 41.1 mpg. Demar is just a WAY better player.

[JuneJive]

IMO, you let Demar play the rest of his contract, unless you can get fair value for him...

I agree.

Let's be real, which team would want DeRozan?

And the extension shouldn't be on the table.

[r0drig0lac]

Demar for 45/3? ok
Demar for 75/3? no way

[JeffDuncan]

I agree.

Let's be real, which team would want DeRozan?

And the extension shouldn't be on the table.

Agreed, no extension. The league is not going to change enough in that short a time for an extension to make sense. And as the youngsters develop for another season it will make even less sense.

When DDR's contract ends, pocket the whole $27.7 million and go shopping with it.

[mo7888]

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/1144961950855630848?s=19

[illusioNtEk]

The team was built around Kawhi's skill set.

Really? 50Mills?

[lmbebo]

https://twitter.com/stevekylerNBA/status/1144961950855630848?s=19

One of the podcasts spoke about DDR decision. Next year will be an underwhelming free agent class. DDR may be valued higher because of that.

[mo7888]

One of the podcasts spoke about DDR decision. Next year will be an underwhelming free agent class. DDR may be valued higher because of that.

Agreed

[CGD]

One of the podcasts spoke about DDR decision. Next year will be an underwhelming free agent class. DDR may be valued higher because of that.

Good point. Looking at the list, he and Lowery would be the top names (assuming AD and those who sign 1+1s this summer stay put). Another reason to move him sooner rather than later if they don’t plan on extending him.

[tonight...you]

I want a wet pussy rt now
Duterte making things tough? I understand and feel for you.
Cute wizards need horny Balrogs.

It's true...

[Realdeal1]

I know it’s a pipe dream and would never happen but damn it would be nice if spurs cleared some cap space to pursue Giannis in free agency in 2021

Imagine the roster with this core

Dejounte Murray
Derrick White
Lonnie Walker
Giannis
Keldon Johnson
Luka Samanic

[wildbill2u]

I think the Spurs can get away without extending him.; we all know that Guards are super susceptible to sudden declines after age 30 as the knees and the speed goes.

If he opts to test the market after next year that would be fair to both DDR and the Spurs. Both parties will have two years of experience with each other and can either come to an agreement for another year or not. Unless he has an extraordinary year, no other team is going to offer him long term big money.

[JeffDuncan]

I know it’s a pipe dream and would never happen but damn it would be nice if spurs cleared some cap space to pursue Giannis in free agency in 2021

Imagine the roster with this core

Dejounte Murray
Derrick White
Lonnie Walker
Giannis
Keldon Johnson
Luka Samanic

Right on, brother. The odds may look awfully bad, but the potential gain would be tremendous. The Spurs, of all teams, should know now all about how unpredictable events can be a couple years in the future. Just in case Giannis decides to look around, the Spurs need to be one of the teams with a big wad of cash in hand to wave at him. Because you never know.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Knicks need something, anything.