If we don't get another defensive G off the bench, White can't start

[SpurPadre]

Regardless what side you're on in the Murray vs. White debate, we can all agree that Pop will start Murray as that was his plan last year before he went down. That's just not going to change now that he's on track to be 100% by the pre-season. So where does that leave White? Sure, you can play him at the 2 and DeRozan at the 3 but that's not their natural positions. In that scenario, that also leaves no guard who can reliably defend off the bench. Sure, Keldon Johnson can play the two off the bench and defend but Pop simply won't play him meaningful minutes for quite awhile. And Walker? He has undeniable skills on offense but his defense needs alot of work and he may not quite be ready to be a consistent contributor on both ends yet. What does that mean? It means a lot of Forbes and Mills on the floor together, which is a recipe for disaster. Playing White off the bench should be something Pop has to at least think about for better defensive balance and not leave off the table.

Poetl-Bertans
LMA-Luka-Metu
Carroll-Gay-Walker-Johnson
DeMar-Forbes-Walker
Murray-White-Mills

[FkLA]

White > IB

[SpurPadre]

White > IB

White=Benched in a Game 7

Murray starting next season is a lock if he stays healthy.

[Dejounte]

Exactly. No sense to start both. Actually doesnt matter to me which one starts.

[timtonymanu]

White=Benched in a Game 7

Murray starting next season is a lock if he stays healthy.

Wake me up when Murray scores 30 in a playoff game.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

White has to start cause he's the only one who can space the floor and run a pick and roll. Murray hasn't shown he can. even in preseason before going down he stunk. It would crush murrays ego though to go to the bench (he thinks he's a star). Which is great, I hope he proves me wrong.

[TheRemix]

Would rather start white. Unless DJ developed a jumpshot.

[SpurPadre]

Wake me up when Murray scores 30 in a playoff game.

Why do you think Pop picked Murray to start over him last season before he went down, then?

[timtonymanu]

Why do you think Pop picked Murray to start over him last season before he went down, then?

My dude you’re a good guy but a really dense person sometimes. Pop went with Murray over White because of his experience. Yet the Spurs did just fine with White starting and basically got the same amount of wins that the Murray led Spurs did the year before.

[Degoat]

I prefer white over Murray but I also preferred Manu over Tony... there’s no shame coming off the bench if it’s for the betterment of the team

[SpurPadre]

My dude you’re a good guy but a really dense person sometimes. Pop went with Murray over White because of his experience. Yet the Spurs did just fine with White starting and basically got the same amount of wins that the Murray led Spurs did the year before.

Same amount of wins lol. And you say I'm dense...smh. Murray had to deal with Load Management's bullshit and no shows while White had the addition of DeMar and they still weren't demonstrably better than last year.

[timtonymanu]

Same amount of wins lol. And you say I'm dense...smh. Murray had to deal with Load Management's bullshit and no shows while White had the addition of DeMar and they still weren't demonstrably better than last year.

You’re dense cause you talk out of your ass but keep pretending you don’t. Especially when people rightfully call you out on your bullshit.

[Fusternino]

0/10, false dilemma.

[SpurPadre]

You’re dense cause you talk out of your ass but keep pretending you don’t. Especially when people rightfully call you out on your bullshit.

You're basically calling out yourself but projecting it on to me. And of course, you attack the person instead of the argument. I'm calling you out on your bullshit.

[timtonymanu]

You're basically calling out yourself but projecting it on to me. And of course, you attack the person instead of the argument. I'm calling you out on your bullshit.

Only when it comes to you cause apparently you can’t talk basketball

[Kurgan]

Same amount of wins lol. And you say I'm dense...smh. Murray had to deal with Load Management's bullshit and no shows while White had the addition of DeMar and they still weren't demonstrably better than last year.

Demar is not an addition. He's a cancer. On-Off numbers have always said any team Demar was on was better when he was off the court. His playoff On-Off numbers were horrendous and the worst on the team by far.

[timtonymanu]

White has a solid season and Padre hates on him all year. So yeah I like to think he’s dense.

[SpurPadre]

Only when it comes to you cause apparently you can’t talk basketball

Whether you like it or not, Murray will be starting next season. The issue is, will White too? But you're just content to talk shit.

[Dejounte]

Demar is not an addition. He's a cancer. On-Off numbers have always said any team Demar was on was better when he was off the court. His playoff On-Off numbers were horrendous and the worst on the team by far.

Youre on a roll tonight

[picnroll]

So who’s goig to finish tight games? That’s what matters. Remember a guy called Manu?

[timtonymanu]

Whether you like it or not, Murray will be starting next season. The issue is, will White too? But you're just content to talk shit.

I never disagreed with Murray starting. And I only talk shit when I see shit takes

[weebo]

White and Murray will be getting plenty of minutes so who cares who starts...

[SpurPadre]

So who’s goig to finish tight games? That’s what matters. Remember a guy called Manu?

I can see White thriving in that role.

[spurraider21]

White > IB
IB - all defensive team
White -

[cjw]

Both guys can start and you can stagger minutes and have one or the other on floor nearly the entire game. Why are you inventing a controversy that doesn’t exist?

[SpurPadre]

White and Murray will be getting plenty of minutes so who cares who starts...

As I've mentioned before: White is a point guard not a two guard, Murray is a point guard not a two guard, and DeMar is a two guard not a small forward. That's the controversy.

[buujness]

They're going to play together more often than not (White and Murray are both working hard on their jumpshot).

More to the point: you don't really need to have a defensive stalwart coming off of your bench, as the minutes get staggered. This isn't hockey, with full on line shifts. Start them both, presumably finish with both, and have at least one on the court at all times. That's likely what the playoff rotation is going to look like. As for the regular season, you can get by with starting them both: one guy goes out at the 7 minute mark, the other stays in. That guy leaves at about the 2 minute mark. When the second quarter starts, bring in the first guy you subbed out.

[SpurPadre]

They're going to play together more often than not (White and Murray are both working hard on their jumpshot).

More to the point: you don't really need to have a defensive stalwart coming off of your bench, as the minutes get staggered. This isn't hockey, with full on line shifts. Start them both, presumably finish with both, and have at least one on the court at all times. That's likely what the playoff rotation is going to look like. As for the regular season, you can get by with starting them both: one guy goes out at the 7 minute mark, the other stays in. That guy leaves at about the 2 minute mark. When the second quarter starts, bring in the first guy you subbed out.

Ok, that's a good argument. I'm still wary of players playing out of position but at least you're talking basketball.

[JeffDuncan]

White=Benched in a Game 7

Murray starting next season is a lock if he stays healthy.

Murray has the start at PG unless White takes it away from him in the preseason. Maybe White will do that, and maybe not. We shall see.

Lol at all the goofs who think they can give White the start by talking about him on Spurstalk. Buncha maroons. It will be decided on the court.

Game 7 against the Nugs is already about a million years ago, btw.

Forbes probably starts at the 2. Backed up by Mills.

I'd like to move out both Forbes and Beli and bring in Harris from the Nets, and start him, but I never get what I want.

In the latter half of the season, Walker will lurk, available for either guard spot.

Keldon..... not this season, not yet.

DDR at the 3 (where he will play a whole season out of position, not that it matters with him.) Backed up by committee, whatever works. Carroll, Bertans, Beli (if he's still around.)

At the 4, Gay, Carroll, occasionally Bertans, sometimes LMA, someday Luka.

At the 5, Poeltl, sometimes LMA, backed up by committee, again. Metu, Eubanks, Mr X.

[TDMVPDPOY]

op is a known faggot trying to push his views on posters
ig faggot is a faggot

[DAF86]

Why do you think Pop picked Murray to start over him last season before he went down, then?

Easy, Murray was entering his 3rd season, White his 2nd. Murray had started the previous season, White was entering the new one basically as a rookie. Now the tables have turned. White started most of last year and played significantly better than Murray the previous one, while Dejounte is coming off a major injury.

I don't know who Pop will start (maybe both, tbh), but what I do know is that White will play the most minutes and will have the bigger role by virtue of just being the better player of the two right now.

[cutewizard]

The future line up seems stable:

Poetl at center

Samanic and KJ at forwards

White and Murray at guards

[itzsoweezee]

Regardless what side you're on in the Murray vs. White debate, we can all agree that Pop will start Murray as that was his plan last year before he went down. That's just not going to change now that he's on track to be 100% by the pre-season. So where does that leave White? Sure, you can play him at the 2 and DeRozan at the 3 but that's not their natural positions. In that scenario, that also leaves no guard who can reliably defend off the bench. Sure, Keldon Johnson can play the two off the bench and defend but Pop simply won't play him meaningful minutes for quite awhile. And Walker? He has undeniable skills on offense but his defense needs alot of work and he may not quite be ready to be a consistent contributor on both ends yet. What does that mean? It means a lot of Forbes and Mills on the floor together, which is a recipe for disaster. Playing White off the bench should be something Pop has to at least think about for better defensive balance and not leave off the table.

Poetl-Bertans
LMA-Luka-Metu
Carroll-Gay-Walker-Johnson
DeMar-Forbes-Walker
Murray-White-Mills

Lol at the complete lack of shooting in that lineup. Not like it's the most important skill in the modem NBA or anything

[Immortal Spur]

IMO the lineups will be

Murray/Forbes/Patty
White/Walker/Johnson
DeMar/Beli
Caroll/Gay/Bertans/Luka/Metu
LMA/Poetl

I think Metu gets cut for a 5 like Eubanks or Kaminsky

[spurraider21]

i would imagine the hope is that keldon becomes the reserve 3 in that chart above

[SpurPadre]

Lol at the complete lack of shooting in that lineup. Not like it's the most important skill in the modem NBA or anything

Lol, White's selling point isn't being a shooter so what you suggest, then? Starting Forbes again?

[Immortal Spur]

he's a 2/3 just was lazy

[phxspurfan]

lol at the idea White can't start when Pop is practically married to him now

[EricB]

As I've mentioned before: White is a point guard not a two guard, Murray is a point guard not a two guard, and DeMar is a two guard not a small forward. That's the controversy.

There is no controversy. Just because you’re too dense to figure it out doesn’t mean there is one.

[SpursRussia]

Oh shit, this is Tony vs Manu all over again, why can’t you dumbasses just support both of the guys and root for Spurs to win, instead of this stupid troll wars.

[cd021]

I've accepted that White will probably start with Murray, but have said that Forbes starting makes more sense as an off the ball threat.

It also breaks up having to play Mills and Forbes together, gives the bench 3 plus defenders and 4 shooters.

Murray, Forbes, DDR, Gay, LMA
Mills, White, Walker, Carroll, Poeltl

White would still play around 26-28 mpg behind Forbes and be able to run the second unit for long stretches.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I've accepted that White will probably start with Murray but have said that Forbes starting makes more sense as an off the ball threat and also breaks up having to play Mills and Forbes together.

Murray, Forbes, DDR, Gay, LMA
Mills, White, Walker, Carroll, Poeltl

White would still play around 26-28 mpg behind Forbes and be able to run the second unit for long stretches.

Yep, this looks optimal. White would still finish games over Forbes and with Gay/Poeltl depending on match-ups.

This leaves Bertans and Belli out of the rotation though and I can definitely see a two for one trade sometime down the line, probably for someone on a two year contract who’d be an upgrade. I like Bertans but he doesn’t seem to be in the long term plans, especially for after 2021.

[vander]

0/10, false dilemma.

yeah, White off the bench will work great. he'll run the show, won't have to defer to Demar or LA. he'll feast on opposing teams' bench unit like some other guy we used to have

[Chinook]

I've accepted that White will probably start with Murray, but have said that Forbes starting makes more sense as an off the ball threat.

It also breaks up having to play Mills and Forbes together, gives the bench 3 plus defenders and 4 shooters.

Murray, Forbes, DDR, Gay, LMA
Mills, White, Walker, Carroll, Poeltl

White would still play around 26-28 mpg behind Forbes and be able to run the second unit for long stretches.

I'd prefer:

White, Forbes, DMDR, Carroll, Aldridge
Murray, Walker, Bertans, Gay, Poeltl

If Murray can shoot, go ahead and start him and White and just run the second unit through Gay and Forbes/Poeltl or Walker/Poeltl PnRs.

It'll probably be:

Murray, White, DeRozan, Aldridge, Poetl
Mills, Forbes, Beli, Carroll, Gay, Bertans (Yeah, Pop will run 11 guys for some reason)

God they need a trade.

[XDT76]

I've accepted that White will probably start with Murray, but have said that Forbes starting makes more sense as an off the ball threat.

It also breaks up having to play Mills and Forbes together, gives the bench 3 plus defenders and 4 shooters.

Murray, Forbes, DDR, Gay, LMA
Mills, White, Walker, Carroll, Poeltl

White would still play around 26-28 mpg behind Forbes and be able to run the second unit for long stretches.

I like this lineup and I think it will be more beneficial for white to run an offense, Murray is a better suit off ball slasher than white.

[jjktkk]

This.

[exstatic]

Start Murray/White
Sub one out and bring in LW
Keep Walker in when you sub the other one back in

You'll always have a defensive stopper guard on the floor. It's not fucking rocket science. Pop almost always staggers his substitutions, so yes, you can start White/Murray and still defend the whole game.

[r0drig0lac]

I would like to see

Murray/Walker
Demar/White
Carroll/Keldon
Bertans/Gay/Samanic
Aldridge/Poetl

[cd021]

Yep, this looks optimal. White would still finish games over Forbes and with Gay/Poeltl depending on match-ups.

This leaves Bertans and Belli out of the rotation though and I can definitely see a two for one trade sometime down the line, probably for someone on a two year contract who’d be an upgrade. I like Bertans but he doesn’t seem to be in the long term plans, especially for after 2021.


I'd prefer:

White, Forbes, DMDR, Carroll, Aldridge
Murray, Walker, Bertans, Gay, Poeltl

If Murray can shoot, go ahead and start him and White and just run the second unit through Gay and Forbes/Poeltl or Walker/Poeltl PnRs.

It'll probably be:

Murray, White, DeRozan, Aldridge, Poetl
Mills, Forbes, Beli, Carroll, Gay, Bertans (Yeah, Pop will run 11 guys for some reason)

God they need a trade.


I like this lineup and I think it will be more beneficial for white to run an offense, Murray is a better suit off ball slasher than white.


I like Murray starting with that unit, Forbes and Gay would serve primarily as floor spacers while he would share play making responsibilities with DeRozan. Better spacing with Forbes playing beside him and not White should help him and hopefully he can breakout while not taking away from White's ability to contribute.

Bringing White off the bench, in theory, would give him about 10 minutes a game to run the offense without DDR on the floor (assuming DDR plays around 32 mpg)
I think that is the best way to optimize his play making with several players that need the ball in their hands.


I would think one of Beli or Bertans gets moved- probably Beli, which would clear out a roster spot while leaving the other to serve as a depth piece in case of injury.

[John B]

Murray and White are working really hard on their jumpshots. They will both start:
Murray, White, Demar, Aldridge, Poeltl

First off the bench is Gay and will run small ball with Aldridge, build more lead with Walker and either Forbes/Bertans.

Carroll for Aldridge, while keeping either White/Murray. Poeltl subs DDR, Carroll plays 3.

i think this team can go big (i hope we get another big), and small with 3 guards, depends on match ups

one thing for sure, i don’t think we’ll see a combo of Mills/Forbes/Beli/Bertans ever again :toast

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Name of thread should be changed. I think OP meant: If Murray doesn't get a consistent jumper, he won't start.

[GreekSpursfan]

Murray will start, White will start, bench DDR, i'm kidding, sort of.

[SpurPadre]

Murray will start, White will start, bench DDR, i'm kidding, sort of.

Well, tbh, White is more of a SG than DDR is a SF. DeMar has mentioned before that he's more comfortable playing at the 2 than at the 3. My main concern, aside from our bench defense, is having multiple players playing out of position. I don't see how that's a non-issue. Maybe they can work through it but it is a legitimate point to bring up.

[GreekSpursfan]

Well, tbh, White is more of a SG than DDR is a SF. DeMar has mentioned before that he's more comfortable playing at the 2 than at the 3. My main concern, aside from our bench defense, is having multiple players playing out of position. I don't see how that's a non-issue. Maybe they can work through it but it is a legitimate point to bring up.

I think even DDR doesn't know what he is. He wants to play something but is he that, no. I would bench him if we didn't have to play Forbes tbh.

[ginobilized]

If Pop is the Coach next year, and past performance is indicative of future results, there will be about 18 different starting lineups next season. The good news is, there are better options this season than last.

[K...]

The only thing I'd add is is like to chain white and Aldridge together. The old my touches plan. This is why I want to take DeRozan to the bench and let him come in later after LMA gets started. A Murray DeRozan, LMA start just looks ugly from a passing viewpoint. Maybe those three players figure it out, but seems like using the best true pg to get the team a hot start is a good plan

[Millennial_Messiah]

As I've mentioned before: White is a point guard not a two guard, Murray is a point guard not a two guard, and DeMar is a two guard not a small forward. That's the controversy.

Two guards in today's NBA need to be able to shoot the 3. That's a minimum requirement.

[RC_Drunkford]

why do people here still think Poeltl will start? Pop only started him cause he was the only good defender he had left on the bench. He should and likely will come off the bench wich improves the spacing of the starting line up a ton

[313]

Start Murray/White
Sub one out and bring in LW
Keep Walker in when you sub the other one back in

You'll always have a defensive stopper guard on the floor. It's not fucking rocket science. Pop almost always staggers his substitutions, so yes, you can start White/Murray and still defend the whole game.Lonnie Walker's defense is abysmal

[313]

Lonnie Walker is the most overrated player on ST. Hopefully it's just age, but Murray, White, and Fathead all looked much more promising in the g league.

OT: They'll both start in the beginning and then Pop will segue one of the two to the bench when he's playing around with line ups.

[Eras]

No Belinelli on the team? Also, I don't see Metu in the 15.

[vavvi]

I think we should stagger White and Murray minutes as much as possible. Like Houston plays Harden and Paul.
Murray and White can start together but then one should be subbed around 4 minutes mark for Forbes and come back at the end of the quarter.

I’m sure Poeltl won’t start.