Marcus Morris Fires Rich Paul, Klutch Sports

[D WHITE]

1150173393754501120

So was Rich Paul the good guy all along? I don't get it..

[Hyperhypo]

not sure we'll know anytime soon

[monty4329]

1150173393754501120

So was Rich Paul the good guy all along? I don't get it..

He costed Noel a 73 mil contract by Dallas.

Morris probably realized he was taken for a ride and now looks like an ass.

Klutch doesn't care anyway, LBJ brings in stars and that's where they make money, not the 4% on Morris or Noel...

[Chris]

Obviously taking him on a ride, 15 is more than 10 when you work on commission.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Should have done it a couple of weeks ago.

[BWS-1994]

He costed Noel a 73 mil contract by Dallas.

Morris probably realized he was taken for a ride and now looks like an ass.

Klutch doesn't care anyway, LBJ brings in stars and that's where they make money, not the 4% on Morris or Noel...

I think Noel’s previous agent wanted him to take said guaranteed money, but he refused.

[monty4329]

I think Noel’s previous agent wanted him to take said guaranteed money, but he refused.

Right, Noel refused and changed agent -another agent told him he would get him a better deal. Smart move...

[venitian navigator]

Right, Noel refused and changed agent -another agent told him he would get him a better deal. Smart move...

...was Ricj Paul that agent...?

[Murray2k]

1150250159600799744

[monty4329]

...was Ricj Paul that agent...?

Not sure. Nate Duncan mentioned it tangentially to the Morris blunder, but the hint seemed quite obvious to me.

I remember when Noel didn't sign with the Mavs as I quite liked his potential so I was sort of keeping an eye on him, and I thought he was crazy to decline.

[RC_Drunkford]

Morris, according to a source, turned down a $41 million offer from the Clippers before pivoting to the Spurs and, eventually, the Knicks (https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-marcus-morris-fires-agent-rich-paul-20190714-ukiwxagbkvdbrayopyqgs6m2ye-story.html). Paul has emerged as an NBA lightning rod with his Sports Illustrated cover story and high-profile clients such as LeBron James, Anthony Davis, John Wall and Ben Simmons. He pushed for Davis’ trade from New Orleans to the Lakers — a saga that essentially sabotaged last season for both teams — and recently secured a max offer for Simmons in Philly. Still, he has never had a player in New York, and it will remain that way after the separation from Morris

I guess Rich Paul didn't want him on the Flippers. That's probably what this is about

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

So Marcus didn’t know about the Clippers offer...is that the suggestion? Granted, agents all have petty agendas. But if true, this strengthens the appearance of Rich Paul acting as Lebron’s stooge, so to speak.

[Twisted_Dawg]

I'm guessing the Clips offer was a 3/$41 million? That would have been before the Kawhi/George signing. Even so, he could have signed with a stable ascending team in LA, with a good coach and owner, instead of signing with the worst team in the league buried behind three other PFs.
What a horrific stupid mistake. He had a chance to ring next year.

[Twisted_Dawg]

So Marcus didn’t know about the Clippers offer...is that the suggestion? Granted, agents all have petty agendas. But if true, this strengthens the appearance of Rich Paul acting as Lebron’s stooge, so to speak.

If Rich Paul never conveyed that offer, Morris can sue him. My guess is Paul vaguely mentioned the offer, dumbed it down, told Morris it was a bad offer and he could get him a better offer, and then the Clips moved on and the SA offer was the best on the table. Paul scrambled and got the NY offer. Paul then could say he got him more money NEXT year than either the Clip or Spur offer.

[CGD]

The nba pundits pegged him at 80m/4yr range. I can see him being pissy about a 4 year offer at half that from the clippers. And then when he got a dose of reality, he pivoted to a shorter deal at the biggest number he could get and allow him to get back out next summer. And then, well, 15>10

[HarlemHeat37]

The nba pundits pegged him at 80m/4yr range. I can see him being pissy about a 4 year offer at half that from the clippers. And then when he got a dose of reality, he pivoted to a shorter deal at the biggest number he could get and allow him to get back out next summer. And then, well, 15>10

4/80 for Marcus Morris? Who would have been dumb enough to give him that?:lol

[Mr. Body]

Not the first time Paul cost a client a ton of money by misdiagnosing his market. Also may have tried to steer him to NYK.

[Seventyniner]

4/80 for Marcus Morris? Who would have been dumb enough to give him that?:lol

Nobody in this case, but that's the shocker here. You know as well as anyone how stupid GMs with cap space can be when it comes to giving out contracts.

[Clipper Nation]

I guess Rich Paul didn't want him on the Flippers. That's probably what this is about
Tbh, I don't think that's the issue. Montrezl Harrell was a Klutch client his first year here without any big drama, though he did end up switching to Drew Rosenhaus.

The issue is that Paul uses absurd hardball negotiation tactics with role players that teams don't really need all that badly. Morris isn't the first Rich Paul client to turn down big money only to have to settle for less. Hell, Norris Cole is stuck in the Chinese league because teams realized he wasn't anywhere near good enough to be worth dealing with Paul's negotiation tactics. At least Morris is still in the NBA.

[SAGirl]

I think Noel’s previous agent wanted him to take said guaranteed money, but he refused.
And I suspect that Rich Paul told him he was right in thinking he deserved more but then didn’t deliver. Though apparently he still represents Noel?

[ducks]

He knows he needs a new agent next year when he is fa

[ducks]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-marcus-morris-agent-rich-140310781.html

[SAGirl]

Tbh, I don't think that's the issue. Montrezl Harrell was a Klutch client his first year here without any big drama, though he did end up switching to Drew Rosenhaus.

The issue is that Paul uses absurd hardball negotiation tactics with role players that teams don't really need all that badly. Morris isn't the first Rich Paul client to turn down big money only to have to settle for less. Hell, Norris Cole is stuck in the Chinese league because teams realized he wasn't anywhere near good enough to be worth dealing with Paul's negotiation tactics. At least Morris is still in the NBA.

That makes sense.

[monty4329]

I'm guessing the Clips offer was a 3/$41 million? That would have been before the Kawhi/George signing. Even so, he could have signed with a stable ascending team in LA, with a good coach and owner, instead of signing with the worst team in the league buried behind three other PFs.
What a horrific stupid mistake. He had a chance to ring next year.

I don't believe this offer. It doesn't make any sense for the Clippers. All points to them knowing exactly what Kawhi was doing and wanted. Hence offering money to Morris before acquiring the ''second star'' required by KL didn't make any sense both moneywise and rosterwise.

This probably is totally made up and comes from some agent not liking very much Rich Paul...

[RC_Drunkford]

Tbh, I don't think that's the issue. Montrezl Harrell was a Klutch client his first year here without any big drama, though he did end up switching to Drew Rosenhaus.

The issue is that Paul uses absurd hardball negotiation tactics with role players that teams don't really need all that badly. Morris isn't the first Rich Paul client to turn down big money only to have to settle for less. Hell, Norris Cole is stuck in the Chinese league because teams realized he wasn't anywhere near good enough to be worth dealing with Paul's negotiation tactics. At least Morris is still in the NBA.

Did the Clippers even have 13 million in open cap space after signing Kawhi and trading for PG13?

[Nobull]

I don't believe this offer. It doesn't make any sense for the Clippers. All points to them knowing exactly what Kawhi was doing and wanted. Hence offering money to Morris before acquiring the ''second star'' required by KL didn't make any sense both moneywise and rosterwise.

This probably is totally made up and comes from some agent not liking very much Rich Paul...
Mo Harkless filled it in a trade. He is making almost 12 million.

[ZeusWillJudge]

If Rich Paul screwed him, that's his problem for hiring him as his agent. Morris made a commitment and then reneged - that was his choice.

Negotiate all you want to, with whoever you want to. But when you make a commitment so firm that the team deals a player to make room? Keep your word. Morris and Rich Paul deserve each other.

[Chinook]

Supposedly, Paul decided to not keep Morris after Morris reneged on the NYK deal. This makes some sense given that Paul had potentially bigger client in DJM to consider. The last thing he'd probably want is for PATFO to not come to the table on a Murray extension just to get back a bit more commission for Morris. Getting Lyles to come to the Spurs seems like an attempt to smooth things over, and the Spurs agreeing to that deal seems to signal their acquiescence. Both sides (PATFO and Klutch) have a lot more to gain from working together than Morris will provide to either side.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

Supposedly, Paul decided to not keep Morris after Morris reneged on the NYK deal. This makes some sense given that Paul had potentially bigger client in DJM to consider. The last thing he'd probably want is for PATFO to not come to the table on a Murray extension just to get back a bit more commission for Morris. Getting Lyles to come to the Spurs seems like an attempt to smooth things over, and the Spurs agreeing to that deal seems to signal their acquiescence. Both sides (PATFO and Klutch) have a lot more to gain from working together than Morris will provide to either side.

This sounds logical, and hopefully is the truth.

[Mr. Body]

Repeat of Boozer's agent dropping him, if this is true. But then why is it reported as Morris firing Paul?

[baseline bum]

He costed Noel a 73 mil contract by Dallas.

Morris probably realized he was taken for a ride and now looks like an ass.

Klutch doesn't care anyway, LBJ brings in stars and that's where they make money, not the 4% on Morris or Noel...

IDK man, the way the salary cap is structured there is a ton of money for midlevel players. Easier to find a couple of Marcus Morris than it is one Kawhi or Anthony Davis.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

However, you would think he would drop him before the NY contract went through if he was feeling so ethical.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Supposedly, Paul decided to not keep Morris after Morris reneged on the NYK deal. This makes some sense given that Paul had potentially bigger client in DJM to consider. The last thing he'd probably want is for PATFO to not come to the table on a Murray extension just to get back a bit more commission for Morris. Getting Lyles to come to the Spurs seems like an attempt to smooth things over, and the Spurs agreeing to that deal seems to signal their acquiescence. Both sides (PATFO and Klutch) have a lot more to gain from working together than Morris will provide to either side.


That sounds good and all. The problem is, I don't see any way Morris could have made that deal with the Knicks without Paul's help. And nothing about Paul's history makes me think he suddenly grew a conscience. So it's not like he can come to the Spurs and wash his hands by blaming it on Morris.

Maybe the Spurs and Paul have agreed to both pretend like it never happened because they both have to keep doing business in the league - and with each other if DJM stays with Klutch. That's probably the wise course. But I still think Paul is a slimy bastard, and I'm still hoping for some good old fashioned karma going his way.

[picnroll]

Supposedly, Paul decided to not keep Morris after Morris reneged on the NYK deal. This makes some sense given that Paul had potentially bigger client in DJM to consider. The last thing he'd probably want is for PATFO to not come to the table on a Murray extension just to get back a bit more commission for Morris. Getting Lyles to come to the Spurs seems like an attempt to smooth things over, and the Spurs agreeing to that deal seems to signal their acquiescence. Both sides (PATFO and Klutch) have a lot more to gain from working together than Morris will provide to either side.

As i said since the beginning this probably goes beyond DJ and has to do with Paul’s reputation and ability to negotiate with GMs. Morris did damage to that by reneging im sure Paul wasn't happy with. This us all on Morris im pretty sure.

[picnroll]

That sounds good and all. The problem is, I don't see any way Morris could have made that deal with the Knicks without Paul's help. And nothing about Paul's history makes me think he suddenly grew a conscience. So it's not like he can come to the Spurs and wash his hands by blaming it on Morris.

Maybe the Spurs and Paul have agreed to both pretend like it never happened because they both have to keep doing business in the league - and with each other if DJM stays with Klutch. That's probably the wise course. But I still think Paul is a slimy bastard, and I'm still hoping for some good old fashioned karma going his way.

Willing to bet Dolan and the Knicks’ front office bypassed Paul and went straight to Morris.

[Chinook]

Repeat of Boozer's agent dropping him, if this is true. But then why is it reported as Morris firing Paul?

Same reason it was reported that Fegan was fired by DAJ after that Dallas fiasco. It's better for both sides if a player gets the credit for firing an agent when something happens that is believed to be (clearly) on the player. Like the people "in the know" will know how it really went down, but it'd hurt the player more than it would help the agent if the agent fires clients. And if you're the type of agent that is fine with hurting a player's image, even if they are just an ex-client, it'll hurt you more down the line.

[Chinook]

That sounds good and all. The problem is, I don't see any way Morris could have made that deal with the Knicks without Paul's help. And nothing about Paul's history makes me think he suddenly grew a conscience. So it's not like he can come to the Spurs and wash his hands by blaming it on Morris.

Maybe the Spurs and Paul have agreed to both pretend like it never happened because they both have to keep doing business in the league - and with each other if DJM stays with Klutch. That's probably the wise course. But I still think Paul is a slimy bastard, and I'm still hoping for some good old fashioned karma going his way.

If the Knicks called Paul and offered Morris a contract, it's Paul's duty to tell that to Morris. The situation would be much worse if he didn't. It's not like Bullock is a Klutch client and Paul would know exactly how the physical was going. He likely told Morris about it and Morris wanted to go there instead. To Paul, the increase in his commission isn't worth the loss of face, so he probably didn't want Morris to take the deal. When Morris took it anyway, Paul offered up another client on a silver platter. Maybe that does earn him more money this year (he should get the commission on both deals for about $20 Million, and he'd've gotten the commission on only like $13 Million had Morris signed with SA and Lyles taken a min somewhere), but getting a sweet five-year deal for Murray would earn him even more, and I don't see any way another team would pay DJM more than PATFO would.

[ZeusWillJudge]

If the Knicks called Paul and offered Morris a contract, it's Paul's duty to tell that to Morris. The situation would be much worse if he didn't. It's not like Bullock is a Klutch client and Paul would know exactly how the physical was going. He likely told Morris about it and Morris wanted to go there instead. To Paul, the increase in his commission isn't worth the loss of face, so he probably didn't want Morris to take the deal. When Morris took it anyway, Paul offered up another client on a silver platter. Maybe that does earn him more money this year (he should get the commission on both deals for about $20 Million, and he'd've gotten the commission on only like $13 Million had Morris signed with SA and Lyles taken a min somewhere), but getting a sweet five-year deal for Murray would earn him even more, and I don't see any way another team would pay DJM more than PATFO would.


Meh. I guess that's true. There's a path there where Paul wouldn't be responsible. Good point.

If it's true, Morris really screwed over Klutch as well. Paul would have some major fence mending to do.

[SpursDynasty85]

I'm guessing the Clips offer was a 3/$41 million? That would have been before the Kawhi/George signing. Even so, he could have signed with a stable ascending team in LA, with a good coach and owner, instead of signing with the worst team in the league buried behind three other PFs.
What a horrific stupid mistake. He had a chance to ring next year.

No where does it say he never heard about the offer. He is also more worried about a paycheck. Next offseason will be ripe with teams willing to pay vs this year.

[SpursDynasty85]

1150250159600799744

Makes no sense even if it was mutual. The conversation was probably: Marcus Morris - "Bro this offseason you really screwed me", Rich Paul "True, I'm no good for you, you should probably leave, Marcus Morris - "bye!". Marcus Morris probably can't badmouth him because he has a lot of clout with players.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

From the little I know of Marcus Morris, he isn’t someone known to keep his mouth shut. His version will probably come out at some point.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

On a tangent, did Bullock ever get a contract? Or is he still in ICU with plantar fasciitis?

[tonight...you]

If the Knicks called Paul and offered Morris a contract, it's Paul's duty to tell that to Morris. The situation would be much worse if he didn't. It's not like Bullock is a Klutch client and Paul would know exactly how the physical was going. He likely told Morris about it and Morris wanted to go there instead. To Paul, the increase in his commission isn't worth the loss of face, so he probably didn't want Morris to take the deal. When Morris took it anyway, Paul offered up another client on a silver platter. Maybe that does earn him more money this year (he should get the commission on both deals for about $20 Million, and he'd've gotten the commission on only like $13 Million had Morris signed with SA and Lyles taken a min somewhere), but getting a sweet five-year deal for Murray would earn him even more, and I don't see any way another team would pay DJM more than PATFO would.
Mmm... this is some good candy.
Propers.

[monty4329]

IDK man, the way the salary cap is structured there is a ton of money for midlevel players. Easier to find a couple of Marcus Morris than it is one Kawhi or Anthony Davis.

Not for LBJ agency, apparently.
In any case, agents make 3-4% of the salary, but 20-30% of endorsements and other deals they broker. Not much to broker for a Morris or a Noel, but hundreds of millions for an AD or even Simmons, potentially.

(That's what people seem to not understand, that for stars the NBA contracts are just a vehicle to more lucrative businesses. Many say Uncle "lost" 80mil to Kawhi, which is peanusts comparing to what he can broker for him through Ballmer. Just an example.)

[Hyperhypo]

I wonder if the NBA has the authority to not do business with Rich Paul and now's he trying to play nice. Imagine an agency gathering more or all the good players and only letting then sign with certain teams to create super teams loaded with said agency's clients. I know it's unlikely but it could happen. The NBA would have a serious problem.

[monty4329]

I wonder if the NBA has the authority to not do business with Rich Paul and now's he trying to play nice. Imagine an agency gathering more or all the good players and only letting then sign with certain teams to create super teams loaded with said agency's clients. I know it's unlikely but it could happen. The NBA would have a serious problem.

Didn't you get the memo? NBA teams don't even have "owners" anymore...

Whatever makes the new gambling app work, Silver will go for it, that's the only "problem" the league is interested in.

[Legacy]

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/07/marcus-morris-turned-down-41-million-from-clippers-before-spurs-knicks-mess-firing-agent-rich-paul-report.html

[duncan2k5]

I know we hate Paul... But let's not underestimate Morris' ability to be a dick

[XDT76]

That sounds good and all. The problem is, I don't see any way Morris could have made that deal with the Knicks without Paul's help. And nothing about Paul's history makes me think he suddenly grew a conscience. So it's not like he can come to the Spurs and wash his hands by blaming it on Morris.

Maybe the Spurs and Paul have agreed to both pretend like it never happened because they both have to keep doing business in the league - and with each other if DJM stays with Klutch. That's probably the wise course. But I still think Paul is a slimy bastard, and I'm still hoping for some good old fashioned karma going his way.

How abt DJM drop him before extension?

[SAGirl]

Problem I have is that NBA deals haven't been enforceable until signed tbh. It's a league problem. There is a lot of going back and forth and contingencies built in. And just bc an agreement is announced doesn't mean there's an agreement tbh. It's too much to ask a guy to leave $5 million on the table when he had already let it be known to his agent that he wanted to get paid and an offer for more sprung up while he wasn't signed. The NBA allows offers to be made to players that are not under contract. All sorts of problems can pop up. Spurs wouldn't have been in a position to even offer the money to Morris until they dealt Bertans into another teams capspace anyways. The NYK offer popped up almost concurrently when that happened bc it was reported that the Spurs knew before hand and there were rumors about it kept under wraps. Heck Spurs were looking to deal Belinelli to get a shooting forward b4 this became public. Paul jumped the gun on that announcement while there were still other possibilities and Morris wanted more $ all along which he knew. Something similar happened with Noel this season. After his agreement was announced another subsequently dropped that he was holding off to consider other offers.

[exstatic]

Problem I have is that NBA deals haven't been enforceable until signed tbh. It's a league problem. There is a lot of going back and forth and contingencies built in. And just bc an agreement is announced doesn't mean there's an agreement tbh. It's too much to ask a guy to leave $5 million on the table when he had already let it be known to his agent that he wanted to get paid and an offer for more sprung up while he wasn't signed. The NBA allows offers to be made to players that are not under contract. All sorts of problems can pop up. Spurs wouldn't have been in a position to even offer the money to Morris until they dealt Bertans into another teams capspace anyways. The NYK offer popped up almost concurrently when that happened bc it was reported that the Spurs knew before hand and there were rumors about it kept under wraps. Heck Spurs were looking to deal Belinelli to get a shooting forward b4 this became public. Paul jumped the gun on that announcement while there were still other possibilities and Morris wanted more $ all along which he knew. Something similar happened with Noel this season. After his agreement was announced another subsequently dropped that he was holding off to consider other offers.

Not true. Morris was offered the MLE, and didn't use a dime of the space created by the Bertans trade. The problem was that SA had already offered part of the MLE to Demarre Carroll, and rather than appear to revoke that offer, they created the space for Carroll with the trade, so that he wasn't left hanging. In today's NBA, they absolutely could have left Carroll hanging, and waited out Morris. When he reneged, they could have then circled back around and re-offered part of the MLE to Carroll and kept Bertans.

[spurraider21]

The anti-Klutch narrative was more fun than Morris just being a dick :lol

[SAGirl]

Not true. Morris was offered the MLE, and didn't use a dime of the space created by the Bertans trade. The problem was that SA had already offered part of the MLE to Demarre Carroll, and rather than appear to revoke that offer, they created the space for Carroll with the trade, so that he wasn't left hanging. In today's NBA, they absolutely could have left Carroll hanging, and waited out Morris. When he reneged, they could have then circled back around and re-offered part of the MLE to Carroll and kept Bertans.
technicality. You know what I meant. There wasn't money to be offered until that trade. If they didn't want Carroll they wouldn't have pursued him. They wanted Carroll regardless.

[phxspurfan]

I'm guessing the Clips offer was a 3/$41 million? That would have been before the Kawhi/George signing. Even so, he could have signed with a stable ascending team in LA, with a good coach and owner, instead of signing with the worst team in the league buried behind three other PFs.
What a horrific stupid mistake. He had a chance to ring next year.


Glad he got owned. Karma is a bitch

[exstatic]

I'm guessing the Clips offer was a 3/$41 million? That would have been before the Kawhi/George signing. Even so, he could have signed with a stable ascending team in LA, with a good coach and owner, instead of signing with the worst team in the league buried behind three other PFs.
What a horrific stupid mistake. He had a chance to ring next year.

I'm pretty sure it was 4/$41M

[Twisted_Dawg]

I'm pretty sure it was 4/$41M

The more I think about, you're probably right. Probably a 4 year with the 4th year player option. So about $10 million per. He declines that offer for the Spurs 2 year $21 million with one year player option. He must have initially thought he could put up good numbers with the Spurs and cash in next year. Instead he went for the Knick $15 million one year. Total idiot.

[ducks]

The anti-Klutch narrative was more fun than Morris just being a dick :lol

That is racist
You said dick instead of pussy

[spurraider21]

That is racist
You said dick instead of pussy
that would be sexist, not racist. and i've already done time, was banned a week for misogyny on some weak shit tbh :lol

[K...]

that would be sexist, not racist. and i've already done time, was banned a week for misogyny on some weak shit tbh :lol

lmao so victim

[ace3g]

Morris’ super-agent, Rich Paul, was not involved directly in Morris breaking his verbal agreement with the Spurs, according to a source, and the Knicks and Morris worked on a new deal together. The source reports Paul preferred Morris stick to his original agreement and the two are headed toward a breakup over the incident.

https://nypost.com/2019/07/16/marcus-morris-addition-gives-knicks-underwhelming-top-duo/


The New York Knicks forward reneged on an agreement (https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2019/07/13/sunhoop/oNaHghl0y6KVj3vrJSwyBN/story.html) he made to join the San Antonio Spurs earlier this month because he felt he “felt he was not informed properly of the Spurs deal,” The Boston Globe’s Gary Washburn reported Sunday, citing an NBA source. Morris reportedly accepted the Spurs’ two-year, $20 million (https://nesn.com/2019/07/former-celtic-marcus-morris-reportedly-agrees-to-deal-with-spurs/) contract offer July 6, but he backed out of the agreement with San Antonio five days later and picked the Knicks’ one-year, $15 million deal (https://nesn.com/2019/07/nba-rumors-ex-celtics-pf-marcus-morris-plans-to-sign-with-knicks/) instead.

We don’t know exactly what information about the Spurs contract Morris felt he lacked, but whatever was missing was serious enough to warrant him reportedly firing Rich Paul (https://nesn.com/2019/07/nba-rumors-marcus-morris-fires-agent-rich-paul-after-signing-with-knicks/) as his agent over the weekend. Morris reportedly rejected a three-year, $41 million (https://nesn.com/2019/07/nba-rumors-marcus-morris-turned-down-big-offer-from-clippers-heading-to-knicks/) contract offer from the Los Angeles Clippers before choosing the Spurs.
Perhaps something took place during that sequence of events that triggered his flip-flop.





https://nesn.com/2019/07/nba-rumors-why-marcus-morris-reneged-on-spurs-contract-joined-knicks/

[RC_Drunkford]

seems like Rich Paul was the good guy here

[SpursDynasty85]

https://nypost.com/2019/07/16/marcus-morris-addition-gives-knicks-underwhelming-top-duo/



https://nesn.com/2019/07/nba-rumors-why-marcus-morris-reneged-on-spurs-contract-joined-knicks/


Sounds like good PR to blame both sides. Just move on and be more vigilante and cautious with this stuff.

[Mr. Body]

Looks like Morris straight up backed out and lied about it. The Knicks should be put to blame. Going after a player with a verbal agreement is bush league.

[Hyperhypo]

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/report-agent-rich-paul-wanted-marcus-morris-to-sign-with-spurs

[Hyperhypo]

Maybe he's trying to save face? Now this
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/powerful-agent-rich-paul-strikes-161738702.html

[JuneJive]

1151583054063972357

Looks like it is not only plantar fasciitis he's struggling with.

[K...]

Yeah, a back injury is quasi career threatening, but the Knicks still did him dirty if he can return and play. His medical bill will not be in the millions to the Knicks

[cd98]

Yeah, a back injury is quasi career threatening, but the Knicks still did him dirty if he can return and play. His medical bill will not be in the millions to the Knicks

Not really. Not if the offer NY gave and conditioned on him passing a physical, a fairly common requirement, then pulling the contract when it is clear he could miss a big part of the season would be a typical move by a team. Morris is going where the most money is...NY is paying the player the least amount they can. That's how the market works.

[K...]

Not really. Not if the offer NY gave and conditioned on him passing a physical, a fairly common requirement, then pulling the contract when it is clear he could miss a big part of the season would be a typical move by a team. Morris is going where the most money is...NY is paying the player the least amount they can. That's how the market works.

This is a Union issue so it's not that simple. You're correct that the Knicks could walk away, but they could've offered an amount that represented his post init value. They didn't, they gave him a scrap offer after using his offer on Morris.

The union should require teams to honor contracts for small injuries. Teams should not be assholes to players.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

Can I blame Morris and Paul AND the Knicks? Just trying to be fair.

[Phenomanul]

https://nypost.com/2019/07/16/marcus-morris-addition-gives-knicks-underwhelming-top-duo/



https://nesn.com/2019/07/nba-rumors-why-marcus-morris-reneged-on-spurs-contract-joined-knicks/


Factoring state State taxes the Spurs' offer was still the best...

[Nobull]

This is a Union issue so it's not that simple. You're correct that the Knicks could walk away, but they could've offered an amount that represented his post init value. They didn't, they gave him a scrap offer after using his offer on Morris.

The union should require teams to honor contracts for small injuries. Teams should not be assholes to players.

BS

Bullock has a back issue. He has never done a damn thing for the Knicks. These players are independent contracts. The Knicks did not owe him anything. They were fair to him. He is 27 and will have a paycheck and surgery paid for by them.

That is a great deal.

[BatManu20]

1152190246001553414

[exstatic]

Rivalry with the Knicks. :lol

[John B]

Rivalry with the Knicks. :lol
I wonder who’s winning there :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

Rivalry with the Knicks. :lol

:lmao let's let DRob and Patrick Ewing settle it in an MMA grudge match.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Can I blame Morris and Paul AND the Knicks? Just trying to be fair.


Maybe not. This story says it's all on Marcus Morris. If it's true, it pretty well clears things up:

https://sports.yahoo.com/rumor-marcus-morris-left-agent-125528754.html

"The buzz at Summer League was Morris was disappointed with the market for his services, which he thought would be more robust. He took the Spurs offer that Paul set up, but when the Knicks came with $5 million more per year on a one-year deal — which makes Morris a free agent again in a much weaker class next summer — he wanted it. Paul, however, was not part of those talks and urged him to stick with the original Spurs deal, according to Marc Berman of New York Post."

"Morris’ super-agent, Rich Paul, was not involved directly in Morris breaking his verbal agreement with the Spurs, according to a source, and the Knicks and Morris worked on a new deal together. The source reports Paul preferred Morris stick to his original agreement and the two are headed toward a breakup over the incident."

[ZeusWillJudge]

And here's the story by Berman, about the fact that the Knicks "Big Two" is going to be Julius Randle and Marcus Morris. :lol

https://nypost.com/2019/07/16/marcus-morris-addition-gives-knicks-underwhelming-top-duo/
"There’s a bunch of starry tandems in the NBA this season: the Lakers’ LeBron James and Anthony Davis, the Nets’ Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant, the Clippers’ Kawhi Leonard and Paul George, the Rockets’ James Harden and Russell Westbrook, the Warriors’ Stephen Curry and Draymond Green. The Knicks? They now have Julius Randle and Marcus Morris."

Morris would have been a good addition in SA, because of the role he would have been taking on. But as half of a lead duo, not so much. Between pissing on the Spurs, and how bad he's likely to look in NY, this whole deal may be a money loser for him when free agency comes around next year.

I'm glad the sonofabitch didn't come here, TBH.

[picnroll]

And here's the story by Berman, about the fact that the Knicks "Big Two" is going to be Julius Randle and Marcus Morris. :lol

https://nypost.com/2019/07/16/marcus-morris-addition-gives-knicks-underwhelming-top-duo/
"There’s a bunch of starry tandems in the NBA this season: the Lakers’ LeBron James and Anthony Davis, the Nets’ Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant, the Clippers’ Kawhi Leonard and Paul George, the Rockets’ James Harden and Russell Westbrook, the Warriors’ Stephen Curry and Draymond Green. The Knicks? They now have Julius Randle and Marcus Morris."

Morris would have been a good addition in SA, because of the role he would have been taking on. But as half of a lead duo, not so much. Between pissing on the Spurs, and how bad he's likely to look in NY, this whole deal may be a money loser for him when free agency comes around next year.

I'm glad the sonofabitch didn't come here, TBH.
Like Forrest said, “Stupid is as stupid does”.

[Dex]

1152241868572418049

[JR3]

1152241868572418049
Knicks still salty over 99 nba finals...
also - not surprised the best organization is sports doesn’t get along with the worst organization in sports.

[John B]

1152241868572418049
I doubt that Spurs was colluding or whatever NY meant “operating outside of NBA norm” acquiring Porzingis. I wish PATFO would do something bold like that for once. But that’s a 10 yr old Dolan getting back :lol:lol:lol

[manufan10]

What did the Spurs do in regards to Porzingis?

[picnroll]

Knicks making up some BS to justify their sleaziness.

[ZeusWillJudge]

What did the Spurs do in regards to Porzingis?

They aren't saying... exactly. Just that they think the Spurs did something ethically wrong. I think the key is that nobody heard about this supposed ethical violation until the Morris deal.

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-zone/report-knicks-suspect-spurs-may-have-crossed-the-ethical-lines-when-porzingis-was-in-ny

[Degoat]

So do we think us signing trey Lyles was a desperation move by us?? I mean Morris is much better but I think lyles could be really good in are system

[DMC]

Has nothing to do with the Knicks. Morris makes a deal, it's up to him to keep it. Teams have the right to make counter offers.

Rich Paul is like a high end contractor, he will overbid the fuck out of a contract because he can. If they hit he scores big, if they don't he has a lot of fall back room. The role players get fucked but most of them are dumb as stumps anyhow. It's like doing business with fucking Lenny from Mice and Men.

[Drom John]

Reading a bunch of Google articles around 8 January 2019, and picking pieces it seems:

1) The Spurs were reported to have "significant interest" in pursuing Porzingas this off-season.
2) The Spurs didn't have the roster and salary structure to compete in a mid-season trade.
3) Porzingas listed San Antonio as a team Kristaps would like to play for.

What's missing is a "smoking gun" linking the Spurs to the reported interest.

Put that together, I could imagine that the Knicks thought the Spurs leaked off-season interest sabotaging offered January trade packages.

[Dex]

So do we think us signing trey Lyles was a desperation move by us?? I mean Morris is much better but I think lyles could be really good in are system

Desperation is a harsh word...but it was definitely trying to make lemonade out of lemons.

Morris is the much better, more immediate fit and could have lifted the Spurs into near-contender status. He is a proven vet and a gritty defender.

Lyles is more of a win-later move...he has underperformed so far in his career and is basically a coin-flip to pan out. If he does, he could end up being a good pickup for the Spurs eventually...if not, the Spurs can cut him loose pretty easily.

Either way, the Spurs had to move on once they realized that Morris was a lost cause, so they went after the next best option available at the time. The only other option would have been saving the MLE for a player on the buyout market, but that comes with a lot of question marks...who is going to get released, will they want to come to the Spurs, etc?

Lyles will hopefully be as good as any of the realistic buyout options, and at least the Spurs won't get stuck with their pants around their ankles.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Has nothing to do with the Knicks. Morris makes a deal, it's up to him to keep it. Teams have the right to make counter offers.


I disagree with that. If the Spurs poached a guy who had already made a verbal commitment, and the team had gotten rid of an asset to make room? I would call that a chickenshit move.

I don't think many teams would have gone that far, just because they all have to live within this weird moratorium framework. There have to be some unwritten rules, or teams can't make moves freely. It's bad enough when a player reneges, but it happens once in a while. But when a team has made other roster moves, it's just not done. Read that article I linked - it sounds like there are other execs who aren't impressed with it.

But you have to see that when Marcus Morris would be one of the two best players on your team, you're desperate. Fucking Knicks blew $70M in cap space, and the best they could do was Marcus Morris. Not surprising that a team with that kind of shitty leadership would be the one to pull something like poaching Morris.

[ZeusWillJudge]

So do we think us signing trey Lyles was a desperation move by us?? I mean Morris is much better but I think lyles could be really good in are system


The FA market was picked over. Teams draft raw players with potential - it's risk/reward. Lyles is an aftermarket version of that. He was a lottery pick. If the Spurs can develop him, it was a good pickup. If he's a lot cause, they only owe him something like $1.35M next year, and they can cut him loose. I'm sure the Spurs saw something in him, and thought he was worth the effort. And there wasn't anyone else available that was going to change this season.

I thought they might have waited until mid-season to see what was available, and used the roster spot to give one of their young guys a shot. But I can see that Lyles could have a future if he can reclaim some of his potential.

[John B]

Desperation is a harsh word...but it was definitely trying to make lemonade out of lemons.

Morris is the much better, more immediate fit and could have lifted the Spurs into near-contender status. He is a proven vet and a gritty defender.

Lyles is more of a win-later move...he has underperformed so far in his career and is basically a coin-flip to pan out. If he does, he could end up being a good pickup for the Spurs eventually...if not, the Spurs can cut him loose pretty easily.

Either way, the Spurs had to move on once they realized that Morris was a lost cause, so they went after the next best option available at the time. The only other option would have been saving the MLE for a player on the buyout market, but that comes with a lot of question marks...who is going to get released, will they want to come to the Spurs, etc?

Lyles will hopefully be as good as any of the realistic buyout options, and at least the Spurs won't get stuck with their pants around their ankles.
I’m excited with Lyles signing. It’s not a long term. And if he pans out as a lottery pick that a lot of teams expected him to be, we got a mobile big with passing and outside shot.

[sasaint]

I’m excited with Lyles signing. It’s not a long term. And if he pans out as a lottery pick that a lot of teams expected him to be, we got a mobile big with passing and outside shot.

I am not necessarily excited, it I am very hopeful. He is the definition of low risk high reward.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

This is total bullshit coming from New York. They were salary dumping because they thought they were going to get Kevin Durant.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

If anything, the Knicks were tampering with Durant.

[John B]

The FA market was picked over. Teams draft raw players with potential - it's risk/reward. Lyles is an aftermarket version of that. He was a lottery pick. If the Spurs can develop him, it was a good pickup. If he's a lot cause, they only owe him something like $1.35M next year, and they can cut him loose. I'm sure the Spurs saw something in him, and thought he was worth the effort. And there wasn't anyone else available that was going to change this season.

I thought they might have waited until mid-season to see what was available, and used the roster spot to give one of their young guys a shot. But I can see that Lyles could have a future if he can reclaim some of his potential.
Spurs could’ve waited on the buyout, but pretty much everybody knows how 1st year players grab Spurs system - you need a year. So Lyles have a benefit of the Summer to train and the coaches to integrate his game. Pop don’t really do “on the fly.” Any buyout signings had been insurance players, not really seeing significant contribution. So Spurs has the intention to use Lyles not just an insurance. He could sub either PF/C. Or he could clean-up, depending on how hard he works. I’m rooting for the kid. 2 very good teams already gave up on him. He needs to hang on to his last opportunity with the best organization, or his career in the NBA could be very short and he’s only 23.

[John B]

I am not necessarily excited, it I am very hopeful. He is the definition of low risk high reward.
Best case, poor man Boris Diaw. The kid got passing skills.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Spurs could’ve waited on the buyout, but pretty much everybody knows how 1st year players grab Spurs system - you need a year. So Lyles have a benefit of the Summer to train and the coaches to integrate his game. Pop don’t really do “on the fly.” Any buyout signings had been insurance players, not really seeing significant contribution. So Spurs has the intention to use Lyles not just an insurance. He could sub either PF/C. Or he could clean-up, depending on how hard he works. I’m rooting for the kid. 2 very good teams already gave up on him. He needs to hang on to his last opportunity with the best organization, or his career in the NBA could be very short and he’s only 23.



Lyles has been with two teams. Something went wrong in his second year both places. It shows up most in his shooting percentages, but also the fact that both teams got rid of him after the second years. Maybe it's attitude or immaturity, and he gets crossways with his coaches, I don't know. But his Per36 numbers show steady improvement in most things, except for FG%. If his shooting percentages were consistent, his stats would actually tell a pretty different story.

He's a weak rebounder for his size, but not to the point of being useless. And he's shot .380 from 3P in two different seasons. I think the whole thing comes down to whether he's willing to work and accept coaching. The Spurs are likely to ask more of him than anyone else has, just to see what he's made of. If he's smart enough to see it as an opportunity, he'll be a good pickup. If he doesn't, he'll be the first cut of the next offseason.

[BWS-1994]

The Latvian Connection?

[GreekSpursfan]

Just the fact that we are talking about the Knicks lowers us to their shitty lvl tbh.

[Mr. Body]

Has nothing to do with the Knicks. Morris makes a deal, it's up to him to keep it. Teams have the right to make counter offers.

Rich Paul is like a high end contractor, he will overbid the fuck out of a contract because he can. If they hit he scores big, if they don't he has a lot of fall back room. The role players get fucked but most of them are dumb as stumps anyhow. It's like doing business with fucking Lenny from Mice and Men.

Of course it has to do with the Knicks. You don't go after a player after they publicly committed. That's extremely bad precedent for the league.

[RD2191]

Hopefully we blow the fuck out of the Knicks this season. Embarrass them like usual.

[Prime BEEF]

At this point the NBA should probably look at contracting the Knicks lol

Also good candidates...
Twolves
Grizzlies
Kings
Wizards
Hornets

[timtonymanu]

Hopefully we blow the fuck out of the Knicks this season. Embarrass them like usual.

Not in New York last season :lol

[sasaint]

Hopefully we blow the fuck out of the Knicks this season. Embarrass them like usual.

Actually 2 years in a row the Knicks have really rained on our parade.

[RD2191]

Why y'all bringing up old stuff?

[GreekSpursfan]

Why y'all bringing up old stuff?

:lol

[DMC]

Of course it has to do with the Knicks. You don't go after a player after they publicly committed. That's extremely bad precedent for the league.

He would have done it for any other team though, not just the Knicks. The problem is the CBA needs to be rethought. When there's no good faith, things have to be more comprehensive, teams need to be protected. It's all teams, they all have the ability to do it and they will start doing it because players are deciding they have zero team loyalty now. They've basically said "fuck the fans" because they know bandwagon fans far outnumber loyal fans.

[Mr. Body]

He would have done it for any other team though, not just the Knicks. The problem is the CBA needs to be rethought. When there's no good faith, things have to be more comprehensive, teams need to be protected. It's all teams, they all have the ability to do it and they will start doing it because players are deciding they have zero team loyalty now. They've basically said "fuck the fans" because they know bandwagon fans far outnumber loyal fans.

I don't understand why you think the Knicks have no agency in this.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I don't understand why you think the Knicks have no agency in this.


Doesn't matter. It was clearly a shit thing for the Knicks to do. Their punishment is that they have to keep being the Knicks. :D
They'll be a lot worse with Morris than the Spurs will be without him.

[Mr. Body]

Doesn't matter. It was clearly a shit thing for the Knicks to do. Their punishment is that they have to keep being the Knicks. :D
They'll be a lot worse with Morris than the Spurs will be without him.

Sure, but the league office definitely noticed. They can't let franchises making a habit of poaching players after verbal agreements. Maybe they don't do anything -- likely -- but the antennae are up.

[DMC]

I don't understand why you think the Knicks have no agency in this.

Because it's in their best interest to acquire the best talent they can. If the player can be coaxed into rethinking his decision, as long as it's legal, it's prudent to do so. If I was a Knicks fan I wouldn't think less of my team for going after a player to the detriment of a competitor. However once the player has agreed to something, if he reneges that basically labels him as untrustworthy in negotiations.

Knicks made no deals with SA.

[EricB]

Because it's in their best interest to acquire the best talent they can. If the player can be coaxed into rethinking his decision, as long as it's legal, it's prudent to do so. If I was a Knicks fan I wouldn't think less of my team for going after a player to the detriment of a competitor. However once the player has agreed to something, if he reneges that basically labels him as untrustworthy in negotiations.

Knicks made no deals with SA.


The Knicks knew he was commuted and still went after him anyways. That’s scumbag territory. Indefensible.

[Seventyniner]

Perhaps what the Knicks did, contacting a FA who had verbally agreed to a deal with another team and making an offer, violates unwritten rules of free agency. While not against the letter of the law, the Knicks have likely done some damage to their (probably negligible) reputation.

Marcus Morris is the one who will end up suffering the most. Who is going to pursue him in free agency knowing that he might renege? He will get leftover cap space, not the juicy contracts agreed to on July 1.

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLNXnXIVSLM

[picnroll]

Half way through the season Knicks will be in full tank mode wanting to lose games and Morris will want to be playing, making an impact to prove he deserves a contract in 2020. That should be fun. :downspin:

[DMC]

The Knicks knew he was commuted and still went after him anyways. That’s scumbag territory. Indefensible.

Nobody cares. It's a business move. Franchises that can't play at that level shouldn't be in the NBA.

[DMC]

Perhaps what the Knicks did, contacting a FA who had verbally agreed to a deal with another team and making an offer, violates unwritten rules of free agency. While not against the letter of the law, the Knicks have likely done some damage to their (probably negligible) reputation.

Marcus Morris is the one who will end up suffering the most. Who is going to pursue him in free agency knowing that he might renege? He will get leftover cap space, not the juicy contracts agreed to on July 1.

Not true. Franchises don't care about any of that. They just want the talent on their team for a chance to win. Has DeAndre Jordan had any problems finding a team? Teams fell all over themselves trying to get Kawhi Leonard after he basically sat out for a year and refused to play in San Antonio while collecting a damn near 20 million dollar salary. Kawhi Leonard and Paul George colluded to screw the Lakers over and basically the Raptors as well even though they won a ring with Kawhi. Kawhi misled them into thinking they had a shot at him. Still teams wanted Kawhi and would kill their first born for him. This isn't a player up issue this is an ownership down issue. Players are just now getting wise to what power they have.

[tonight...you]

I don't understand why you think the Knicks have no agency in this.
Let's be honest:
The Knicks do everything wrong under Dolan.
Just look at how they tried to push the Lakers to Inglewood and Ballmer took advantage so they went all petty on him and them.

The Knicks are a true, true joke.
While Dolan has a Blues gig tonight!
Must see music!

[BackHome]

Half way through the season Knicks will be in full tank mode wanting to lose games and Morris will want to be playing, making an impact to prove he deserves a contract in 2020. That should be fun. :downspin:

I totally agree the Knicks will be in full tank mode they have to try and get the number one draft pick cause No Good player wants to play with that shitty franchise. Morris is going to be kicking himself when they start doing that it’s going to be fun to watch get your popcorn ready. :hungry:

[playblair]

marcus morris basically called us a pity signing.........spurs will never sign marquee free agents or even middle of the road players in their prime until they relocate to austin


“I was under the impression that I didn’t have anything left. I thought at the time that the Spurs deal was all that I had. The process wasn’t what I expected and it didn’t go the right way.”

[monty4329]

Because it's in their best interest to acquire the best talent they can. If the player can be coaxed into rethinking his decision, as long as it's legal, it's prudent to do so. If I was a Knicks fan I wouldn't think less of my team for going after a player to the detriment of a competitor. However once the player has agreed to something, if he reneges that basically labels him as untrustworthy in negotiations.

Knicks made no deals with SA.

DeAndre Jordan royally fucked the Mavs, and still they signed him after a few years. And that was way worse than what Morris did.

[BackHome]

And the Mavs are idiots for doing that

[exstatic]

And the Mavs are idiots for doing that

Mark Cuckban.

[DMC]

DeAndre Jordan royally fucked the Mavs, and still they signed him after a few years. And that was way worse than what Morris did.


And the Mavs are idiots for doing that


Mark Cuckban.

It's all business. These feelings belong to fans, businessmen have priorities and they don't care too much to make a point.

[DPG21920]

DeAndre Jordan royally fucked the Mavs, and still they signed him after a few years. And that was way worse than what Morris did.

The Mavs traded a player on Jordan’s word? I didn’t know that.

[cd98]

The Mavs traded a player on Jordan’s word? I didn’t know that.

I would say that the Jordan move didn't cost the Mavs in terms of trading a player, but it was a public rejection that really damaged their reputation. I mean, Mark Cuban, Billionaire, driving the streets of Houston trying to find Jordan while he's huddled up in a house and the Clippers are standing guard. And then Mark tries to come see him and they won't let him in. It's comical.

Morris just got a call with $5 million more on the table. He went with the money and the contract that could allow him to get more money in the future. I don't think him rejecting the Spurs was about anything other than the money.

[DPG21920]

I would say that the Jordan move didn't cost the Mavs in terms of trading a player, but it was a public rejection that really damaged their reputation. I mean, Mark Cuban, Billionaire, driving the streets of Houston trying to find Jordan while he's huddled up in a house and the Clippers are standing guard. And then Mark tries to come see him and they won't let him in. It's comical.

Morris just got a call with $5 million more on the table. He went with the money and the contract that could allow him to get more money in the future. I don't think him rejecting the Spurs was about anything other than the money.

Sure, but the reason it’s way worse for sa is because the lost a positive asset based on this. It’s literally unprecedented.

Whether it was about the money or not is not the relevant part here; it’s that SA traded a player based on his word. So intent aside, it’s a horrific thing to do.

[GreekSpursfan]

Sure, but the reason it’s way worse for sa is because the lost a positive asset based on this. It’s literally unprecedented.

Whether it was about the money or not is not the relevant part here; it’s that SA traded a player based on his word. So intent aside, it’s a horrific thing to do.

I usually defend Spurs FO about most of their decisions but i can't do it in this case. They messed up period. Someones word means nothing in the business world, they should've had Morris's signature and then proceed to do what they did. Unless they had already decided that they were done with the Latvian laser and i'm leaning towards that tbh.

[DPG21920]

I usually defend Spurs FO about most of their decisions but i can't do it in this case. They messed up period. A word means nothing in the business world, they should've had Morris's signature and then proceed to do what they did. Unless they had already decided that they were done with the Latvian laser.

That is defensible for sure; but since that had literally never happened in the NBA that I can ever remember I find it hard for them to be at fault. But at the end of the day the result falls on them.

[GreekSpursfan]

That is defensible for sure; but since that had literally never happened in the NBA that I can ever remember I find it hard for them to be at fault. But at the end of the day the result falls on them.

Something tells me that they would part ways with Davis anyway and i'm leaning towards that.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I usually defend Spurs FO about most of their decisions but i can't do it in this case. They messed up period. A word means nothing in the business world, they should've had Morris's signature and then proceed to do what they did. Unless they had already decided that they were done with the Latvian laser and i'm leaning towards that tbh.


LMAO. How can one guy so consistently have such bad takes?

They HAD to negotiate with Morris first, because otherwise they would have had to get rid of Bertans blindly, and HOPE they could negotiate someone to replace him. Even you should be able to understand how that approach couldn't work - for the Spurs or anyone else. So they reach a deal with Morris, but then they HAVE to work out a deal to free up the space to pay for him.

So tell us how YOU would have done the deal differently.




That is defensible for sure; but since that had literally never happened in the NBA that I can ever remember I find it hard for them to be at fault. But at the end of the day the result falls on them.

No, no, no. Don't let him off the hook that easy. The Spurs COULDN'T sign a contract with Morris, because they didn't have cap space to make that contract. They can't do something they aren't allowed to do. The only way to do it was to reach a verbal with Morris and then make the Bertans trade. It's the way business has to be done under the current rules.

It's not a contract unless it's binding, and it's not binding unless it's a contract. And they couldn't make a contract without cap space.

[DPG21920]

LMAO. How can one guy so consistently have such bad takes?

They HAD to negotiate with Morris first, because otherwise they would have had to get rid of Bertans blindly, and HOPE they could negotiate someone to replace him. Even you should be able to understand how that approach couldn't work - for the Spurs or anyone else. So they reach a deal with Morris, but then they HAVE to work out a deal to free up the space to pay for him.

So tell us how YOU would have done the deal differently.





No, no, no. Don't let him off the hook that easy. The Spurs COULDN'T sign a contract with Morris, because they didn't have cap space to make that contract. They can't do something they aren't allowed to do. The only way to do it was to reach a verbal with Morris and then make the Bertans trade. It's the way business has to be done under the current rules.

It's not a contract unless it's binding, and it's not binding unless it's a contract. And they couldn't make a contract without cap space.


I mean, you know how I feel about it, but technically, SA could have come to that verbal agreement but said to Morris we are not making that trade until the day of. Still would have worked, would have required Morris to be ok with trusting SA that they could make the move no questions asked as promised, but would have helped Sa avoid this.

[GreekSpursfan]

LMAO. How can one guy so consistently have such bad takes?

They HAD to negotiate with Morris first, because otherwise they would have had to get rid of Bertans blindly, and HOPE they could negotiate someone to replace him. Even you should be able to understand how that approach couldn't work - for the Spurs or anyone else. So they reach a deal with Morris, but then they HAVE to work out a deal to free up the space to pay for him.

So tell us how YOU would have done the deal differently.

ITS THEIR JOB, wake the f.up. All i'm saying is that you dont do business with someones word and then when you get fucked you go out and cry about it. Its pretty obvious that business is not your thing. They have competent people, they should've found a way to not get screwed over and thats on them. Morris hadn't sign anything, if i was Morris i would take the knicks job as well.

[DPG21920]

ITS THEIR JOB, wake the f.up. All i'm saying is that you dont do business with someones word and then when you get fucked you go out and cry about it. Its pretty obvious that business is not your thing. They have competent people, they should've found a way to not get screwed over and thats on them. Morris hadn't sign anything, if i was Morris i would take the knicks job as well.

Well Morris is not just stupid for taking the Knicks job based on etiquette, but the money difference is very little, the basketball and opportunity is way worse and he now damaged his reputation for next off season.

Its’ a very poor decision by Morris honestly considering the money after taxes difference is not that much.

[Seventyniner]

No, no, no. Don't let him off the hook that easy. The Spurs COULDN'T sign a contract with Morris, because they didn't have cap space to make that contract. They can't do something they aren't allowed to do. The only way to do it was to reach a verbal with Morris and then make the Bertans trade. It's the way business has to be done under the current rules.


It's not a contract unless it's binding, and it's not binding unless it's a contract. And they couldn't make a contract without cap space.



I don't think this is correct. The Spurs offered Morris the full non-taxpayer MLE (which doesn't use cap space), and the Spurs knew all along they would have that to work with because they were operating over the cap but under the tax. The Spurs would have been able to use the MLE regardless of if Bertans was traded. The point of the Bertans trade was to get Carroll without having to use the MLE on him so they could give the MLE to Morris.

IIRC the original Carroll deal was to give him his money out of the MLE. The "trade" was an attempt to get Morris instead of Bertans; the Spurs were going to get Carroll no matter what.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I mean, you know how I feel about it, but technically, SA could have come to that verbal agreement but said to Morris we are not making that trade until the day of. Still would have worked, would have required Morris to be ok with trusting SA that they could make the move no questions asked as promised, but would have helped Sa avoid this.


Yeah, but that treats the Wiz like cardboard cutouts. They're also sitting there trying to make deals and get their roster filled out, while the FA pool shrinks. I've probably read a half dozen articles and blogs about how the deals all happened lightning fast this season. The Wiz aren't going to sit on a Davis Bertans deal while all the details and contract details are hammered out.

And remember, the Spurs had announced the Carroll deal a week earlier. That wound up being a three team deal that included the Bertans move. A lot of dominos had to fall in order to get the offseason to work out under the cap and exceptions. Under the current rules, that means verbal commitments. It's nice to talk about not having a deal until all the contracts are signed, but the league can't work that way under the current rules. What you guys are proposing is that a guy like Morris gets told, "We probably have a deal. You sit there and wait, until all the dominos fall. But if we can't work this other out, you don't really have a deal." A player could lose his ass on a deal like that. The verbal commitments benefit the players just as much as the teams.

No... Morris trusted that he would get his $2/20M the minute he had a commitment from the Spurs. He couldn't sit there watching the FA money dry up otherwise.

https://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/Spurs-trade-Davis-Bertans-as-part-of-a-three-team-14076337.php

[ZeusWillJudge]

ITS THEIR JOB, wake the f.up. All i'm saying is that you dont do business with someones word and then when you get fucked you go out and cry about it. Its pretty obvious that business is not your thing. They have competent people, they should've found a way to not get screwed over and thats on them. Morris hadn't sign anything, if i was Morris i would take the knicks job as well.


And what you're not getting is that's the way the rules of the CBA are currently set up. The way to keep from getting screwed is to play under a different set of rules - but that's not really up to them at this point.

Don't you get it? Morris CAN'T sign anything binding at that point. Something binding is a "contract". And the Spurs didn't have cap space to give him one. It's a fucked up system, because teams and player are absolutely forced to make deals based on these verbal agreements. It's the way the whole league runs. But it leaves the ability for things like this to happen. Nearly every year somebody gets screwed by this system. That wouldn't keep happening if there was a way around it. But there is no way around it, because it's baked into the system.

[Ocotillo]

My recollection of the Deandre Jordan standing up the Mavs was not that Dallas traded away an asset like the Spurs did but they were harmed in that other free agents committed to other teams that they missed out on thinking Jordan was coming. They had lost opportunity.

[DPG21920]

My recollection of the Deandre Jordan standing up the Mavs was not that Dallas traded away an asset like the Spurs did but they were harmed in that other free agents committed to other teams that they missed out on thinking Jordan was coming. They had lost opportunity.

Absolutely - what Jordan did was bs too; it’s just that it’s next level what Morris did.

[spurraider21]

Nobody cares. It's a business move. Franchises that can't play at that level shouldn't be in the NBA.
clearly

maybe you don't