Should The Spurs Give Jakob Poeltl A Contract Extension?

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/jakob-poeltl-contract-extension-market-value/

Unfortunately for Poeltl, bigs with his skill-set aren't as rich as they used to be...

[KobesAchilles]

3 years 24 million take it or leave it. If they counter for a bigger offer, take him 8 feet away from the basket on the baseline and say if you make this 5 times in a row then we can start negotiating.

[Ninja Roach]

He has set more quality picks, given more effort in mixing it up on the boards, and defended with more heart for this team than Pau ever has and he's currently the only player that even attempts the previously mentioned tasks.

Yes, he deserves an extension.

[Dennis the Menace]

https://www.spurstalk.com/jakob-poeltl-contract-extension-market-value/

Unfortunately for Poeltl, bigs with his skill-set aren't as rich as they used to be...

He was a Top #10 draft pick a few years ago. Only 23 years old, and this is only his first real offseason with the Spurs development team. Moves very well, plays good defense, finishes well around the rim. Just needs to add some bulk and develop a routine face up jumper around the free throw line.

A few years with Spurs development and you’ve got something really good here. Yeah you extend him

[Mr. Body]

Yeah. And I think the Spurs do. They've always valued good post players highly.

[Mr. Body]

Also, he doesn't seem to be a player with problem with playing in San Antonio. That's increasingly a problem in this NBA.

[DAF86]

I would be more than happy to secure him for 25 millions over 5 years, tbh. He's the center of our future, imho.

I mean, we gotta get something long term from that Kawhi trade, right?

[mookie2001]

Crucial season for him. I would say no, for all his effort he shoots 3 times per game and averaged 5 rebounds so we’ll see.

[Dennis the Menace]

He sets the best screens since mid age Tim Duncan. That’s not a stat sheet item but immensely valuable

He needs to work on his shooting stroke. Chip & the development team will get him going. He’s only 23

[Mugen]

I'd be happy with anything from 5mil to 7mil per tbh. Even 8 mil. Poetl was great once they got rid of that gigantic Spanish sack of shit tbh.

[Robz4000]

I'd even go as high as $10 mil tbh, especially since it seems like he's trying to add a 3 point shot to his game. He does that he's easily worth double on the open market.

[mo7888]

If you can get him for $8 on 3 or longer it's a real good deal for us.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Poeltl sets good screens, and shows promise of being a good roll man. He's only had one year with the team, and considering how many first year players we've seen get limited opportunity with the team, he didnt do badly with his learning year in SA.

That being said, restricted free agency is a pretty handy tool. The team always has the option of matching, and if another team values him that much more highly than the Spurs, they have the option of letting him go. So the only reason I can see for extending him is if he shows a willingness to sign for a reasonable amount, in exchange for a sure thing now. The risk of not extending him early is if he does have that breakout year, and some other team decides to grossly overpay him - like Detroit did with Boban in '16.

You made that $5M figure look reasonable. If he would agree to sign for that for 3 or 4 years, I think they should jump on it. He's not untradeable at that level. And he's good enough at C, especially considering that a traditional C doesn't seem likely to be as big a part of the picture for now. Maybe throw in a few unlikely performance bonuses (shooting and rebounding) to encourage him to put in the work on those areas.

I wouldn't scream at $7M per, if it was for no more than 3 years. Let the market decide after that.

[timtonymanu]

I'd be happy with anything from 5mil to 7mil per tbh. Even 8 mil. Poetl was great once they got rid of that gigantic Spanish sack of shit tbh.

[Play Boban]

I would sign him for 5 years, $150 mil tbh.

[slick'81]

7-9 mil per would suffice

[Dennis the Menace]

Also from his interviews he seems like a great culture fit and team guy. Seems very fond of the Spurs organization and its reputation for improving guys. Strikes me as a guy that’s more driven on improving his skills and wants to have a long term home with the Spurs, rather than a bounce for more money guy like J Simmons.

[MultiTroll]

Article:

If he doesn’t carve out a notable niche or regresses, he could be re-signed for even less.Even if Poeltl is lost in free agency, the going rate for playable big men is very reasonable. Bigs who were signed to deals that were worth $5 million per season or less.


In the worst case scenario that Poeltl plays so well that he prices his way out of San Antonio, the Spurs are unlikely to need to put aside much money in order to find a comparable replacement.

[MultiTroll]

^ so why the need to extend him now?

I thought he was average vs Denver.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Yes.

[cjw]

Article:

If he doesn’t carve out a notable niche or regresses, he could be re-signed for even less.Even if Poeltl is lost in free agency, the going rate for playable big men is very reasonable. Bigs who were signed to deals that were worth $5 million per season or less.


In the worst case scenario that Poeltl plays so well that he prices his way out of San Antonio, the Spurs are unlikely to need to put aside much money in order to find a comparable replacement.



Yes, and if he prices himself out the Spurs will have to use the MLE to fill his spot. A developmental center in the draft doesn’t work. Or sign and trade him.

Two years left under team control.

[timvp]

Tbh, I'd do $5 million a year. $6 million if I'm feeling charitable. Give Poeltl more than that now and you'd have to be pricing in him making a monumental leap this upcoming season, IMO.

[slick'81]

If the spurs get him for 5 mil per its a fckn steal for ​poodle power

[Chinook]

I think the Spurs have to give him something like $24-28M/4 if they want to extend him. Otherwise, he should just play the field. You look at his "fair market value" at $5 Million APY. I see that as a reasonable floor. Like maybe he falls off, but he should get enough of a backup role, he's young and he has great advanced stats. Add in the Spurs' seal of approval, and he probably has a decent market. The plan should be to give him a bit more than his ceiling now and how he can develop into the future starting center. If they don't believe he's going to be good enough for that, then they should have traded him, because if I'm him, I'm diving on that QO as soon as it's extended if my market is really that bad.

And if he is good enough to be a good $5 Million APY player, the slight overpay won't hurt the club. Having solid dependable guys with years ahead of them is worth a $2-Million premium.

[lmbebo]

I'd say 3/15-18 is fair.

[Chinook]

Tbh, I'd do $5 million a year. $6 million if I'm feeling charitable. Give Poeltl more than that now and you'd have to be pricing in him making a monumental leap this upcoming season, IMO.

As I just mentioned, his QO is quite large. Even if he fails to reach the starter criteria, the QO would still be almost $10 Million. He'd be crazy not to sign it.

[lmbebo]

I think WCS is also another comparison?

[timvp]

As I just mentioned, his QO is quite large. Even if he fails to reach the starter criteria, the QO would still be almost $10 Million. He'd be crazy not to sign it.

IIRC, his QO is ~$5 million. You might be thinking of his cap hold, tbh.

[Trill Clinton]

2Yr/$10M is all I'd offer him.

[Fusternino]

Still think Zubac set the market, tbh.

[Chinook]

IIRC, his QO is ~$5 million. You might be thinking of his cap hold, tbh.

They did change that, didn't they? Well considering that, I'd still consider $5 Million to be a reasonable floor for him rather than his honest market value. Maybe it's his worth, but in terms of hype and interest, a former strong Spurs role-player probably has more value than a guy like Looney who was often an afterthought on the Warriors. If he had been their starting center for their title years, that would be one thing. But they had Bogut and McGee to overshadow him.

[Scottstarbuck785]

The question you have to ask is if hes in the 7-10 a year for 3-4 years on a ex. 21 to 40 mil. Range. What else is out there at that price?
Quick search is zeller olynyk not a deep class at least URFA Ayton B amba and Hayes will be picked up on club options. JP shows promise and should be a show or go year for him anyways. 3-4 23-30 ish I vote yes

[Play Boban]

I would sign him for 5 years, $150 mil tbh.
538 Carmelo values him at 5 years/$105.7 million tbh so I’m not far off fwiw...

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/jakob-poeltl/

[DAF86]

Tbh, I'd do $5 million a year. $6 million if I'm feeling charitable. Give Poeltl more than that now and you'd have to be pricing in him making a monumental leap this upcoming season, IMO.

You don't think Poeltl can be the center of the future? I think he's good enough to be that. Locking your future starting center for 7/8 millions per year isn't all that bad, imho.

[Keepin' it real]

Offer him $1 million for every time he lays out Kenwi Leanord this upcoming season.

[poopbox]

if you can extend him now at a reasonable rate you do it...he already sets great screens, dives well, and is going to be a MUCH better fit with Luka than he is with LMA...for the type of team the spurs are building his screening will be invaluable...as will his ability to impact the game without scoring...

I'd be fine with something that is 4 years and up to 11 a year... 8 or 9 would be perfect though...

[ducks]

5 years 30 million player option after year 3

[timvp]

I'd be fine with something that is 4 years and up to 11 a year

https://i.imgur.com/Lwk3Blz.gif

[Mugen]

I cant believe Nick Nurse has a fucking title tbh.

[timvp]

You don't think Poeltl can be the center of the future?

Maybe. I'm a little gun-shy after living through the Radoslav Nesterovic Era when Spurs fans justified overpaying him because he "set great screens," "was a good teammates," and "protected the paint." In reality, Nesterovic was limited and his true role was as a quality backup center -- not a shoehorned starting center.

Poeltl is a similar type prospect, if you do some talent inflation adjustment. Good, solid player. Strong backup. A starter? It's not something to be excited about, tbh. Maybe if he's your fifth best starter and not playing more than half the game, otherwise the team's ceiling is pretty low, IMO.

That's why I think the Spurs need to be vigilant regarding Poeltl's salary. Considering his relatively limited upside, it'd be unwise to jump the gun and extend him for an amount that could turn him into an albatross down the line.

I'd do a deal at $5 million. Even $6 million, just to cover yourself in case he can suddenly shoot threes or something. More than that? I'd probably force him to go get an offersheet as a restricted free agent. Teams just aren't spending on his skill-set anymore.

Worst case if Poeltl erupts next season and he leaves because he's overpaid like Slomo, CoJo, Boban, etc. ... you sign Milutinov, elevate Eubanks if he pans out or go out there and sign one of those $5 million bigs who are now readily available every summer.

[BillMc]

Good stuff as always OP.

[DAF86]

Maybe. I'm a little gun-shy after living through the Radoslav Nesterovic Era when Spurs fans justified overpaying him because he "set great screens," "was a good teammates," and "protected the paint." In reality, Nesterovic was limited and his true role was as a quality backup center -- not a shoehorned starting center.

Poeltl is a similar type prospect, if you do some talent inflation adjustment. Good, solid player. Strong backup. A starter? It's not something to be excited about, tbh. Maybe if he's your fifth best starter and not playing more than half the game, otherwise the team's ceiling is pretty low, IMO.

That's why I think the Spurs need to be vigilant regarding Poeltl's salary. Considering his relatively limited upside, it'd be unwise to jump the gun and extend him for an amount that could turn him into an albatross down the line.

I'd do a deal at $5 million. Even $6 million, just to cover yourself in case he can suddenly shoot threes or something. More than that? I'd probably force him to go get an offersheet as a restricted free agent. Teams just aren't spending on his skill-set anymore.

Worst case if Poeltl erupts next season and he leaves because he's overpaid like Slomo, CoJo, Boban, etc. ... you sign Milutinov, elevate Eubanks if he pans out or go out there and sign one of those $5 million bigs who are now readily available every summer.

Looney, Tristan Thompson, Capella, MgGee, Adams, Bogut.

If you look around, most of the centers in recent championship/contending teams really haven't been anything special, tbh. They all just set screens, finish pick and rolls and aren't defensive liabilites. That's it.

Poeltl checks all those boxes. Sure, it would be better if he could hit the open Jumper but it's not a do or die requisite for centers, imho.

P/S: On a related note, that's why I was such a hardcore Dedmon fan and was very vocal about keeping him when he had him. It was clear he was developing into a perfect modern day center.

[apalisoc_9]

21/3

Fair deal

[TimDunkem]

Looney, Tristan Thompson, Capella, MgGee, Adams, Bogut.

If you look around, most of the centers in recent championship/contending teams really haven't been anything special, tbh. They all just set screens, finish pick and rolls and aren't defensive liabilites. That's it.

Poeltl checks all those boxes. Sure, it would be better if he could hit the open Jumper but it's not a do or die requisite for centers, imho.

P/S: On a related note, that's why I was such a hardcore Dedmon fan and was very vocal about keeping him when he had him. It was clear he was developing into a perfect modern day center.
Yeah, Poeltl's type is a dime a dozen. Unless he's guarding multiple positions, and shooting jumpers or develops other skills, he can be easily replaced. He's fine as a backup center but you can find that value on the market pretty consistently. You don't extend that guy to a big contract.

[ZeusWillJudge]

IIRC, his QO is ~$5 million. You might be thinking of his cap hold, tbh.

Yep.



21/3

Fair deal

That's exactly the number Boban got from Detroit when he left. I think the case TIMVP was making is that the value of C's that can't space on offense has gone down in recent years - and from those examples, it looks to be true. But 3/$21M is probably enough to keep him, and I'd hate to lose him for that.

Even though "old school" C's aren't in big demand right now, the PnR has been pretty devastating for the teams that have the players to run it well. I like Poeltl for that. And a second year of familiarity is going to help a lot, IMO. Yeah, 3/21 or even 4/24 and get him locked down would be just fine.

[slick'81]

If he stays at his current role and mpg we wont have to worry about spurs overpaying tbh

[DAF86]

Yeah, Poeltl's type is a dime a dozen. Unless he's guarding multiple positions, and shooting jumpers or develops other skills, he can be easily replaced. He's fine as a backup center but you can find that value on the market pretty consistently. You don't extend that guy to a big contract.

Poeltl's skillset might be a dime a dozen, but the level at which he performs those skills aren't. He's not your regular Zaza Pachulia type, tbh. Jakob has some legit skill in him.

Sure, don't overpay him. He won't ever be more than a 5th or 6th best player on a contending team. The thing is, I don't think 6/7 millions per year for him is overpaying him, tbh.

[venitian navigator]

4/24 or 5/30 would be ok...he seems the kind of guy willing to learn and improve...and that needs commitment from the team and stability. Once he's set he could just focus on playing and become a rotation piece for years to come and possibly the starting center if he develops some outside shooting (that could be possible with our coaching staff already focused on that with bigs like Eubanks and a young big like Samanic that already has that weapon but needs to develop consistency).

[RC_Drunkford]

what this team really needs is a lot of long term good value deals so yeah lock him up for under 10 million per year. 5-7 would be great value

[timvp]

Looney, Tristan Thompson, Capella, MgGee, Adams, Bogut.

If you look around, most of the centers in recent championship/contending teams really haven't been anything special, tbh. They all just set screens, finish pick and rolls and aren't defensive liabilites. That's it.

Poeltl checks all those boxes. Sure, it would be better if he could hit the open Jumper but it's not a do or die requisite for centers, imho.

Your list makes good arguments why it's a bad idea to overpay that skill-set:

1. If recent great teams have had interchangeable centers with similar skills, is there really a need to lock up a specific one? Doesn't it make more sense to save resources for elsewhere?

2. Of the players you mentioned, Thompson, Capela and Adams are now on the trade market after signing long-term deals. Their teams would gladly salary dump their contracts if they could. Overpaying those players worked out poorly in each case. Looney and McGee fit the $5 million range I'm advocating for Poeltl. Bogut is a mix -- was overpaid so the Warriors dumped him and now he's entered the dime a dozen category.

If one were to learn a lesson for these teams, it's avoid overpaying your center because the going rate for centers continues to drop. What sounded like a reasonable deal one year can turn into an albatross the next.

TL;DR: I think the Spurs need to proceed with caution regarding Poeltl and operate with the knowledge that if he were a free agent this summer, he would have commanded less than $5 million per season. Base any offers off of that, IMO.

[kobyz]

It just sucks we missed out on Bitadze by one spot, wouldn't have to deal with this shit now

[MannyIsGod]

There's zero reason to lock up money long term with Poetl when he can easily be replaced and isn't integral to the team. I like him, but even at 5 million per I'm not sure why you'd do it.

[r0drig0lac]

28/4 imo

[Big Empty]

28/4 imo this would be good. We do need a 7ft center everyone thinks its just a 3 point game now. All the contenders have a solid center that we need a tool in the box for. If we can keep him for cheap great but if we can upgrade him for a more defensive longer center even better so Denver can’t have thier way with us in the future.

[JuneJive]

With 5M per yr. that would be about 5% of the cap.

How can you say no to that.

Continuity shouldn't be underestimated, especially in the Spurs system and him being a role player.

[Ulysses]

5 mill a year or no

[mo7888]

538 Carmelo values him at 5 years/$105.7 million tbh so I’m not far off fwiw...

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/jakob-poeltl/

That's alot....but I notice all the people who like to look to 538 for bolstering their argument don't want to touch this one lol

[vavvi]

Your list makes good arguments why it's a bad idea to overpay that skill-set:

1. If recent great teams have had interchangeable centers with similar skills, is there really a need to lock up a specific one? Doesn't it make more sense to save resources for elsewhere?

2. Of the players you mentioned, Thompson, Capela and Adams are now on the trade market after signing long-term deals. Their teams would gladly salary dump their contracts if they could. Overpaying those players worked out poorly in each case. Looney and McGee fit the $5 million range I'm advocating for Poeltl. Bogut is a mix -- was overpaid so the Warriors dumped him and now he's entered the dime a dozen category.

If one were to learn a lesson for these teams, it's avoid overpaying your center because the going rate for centers continues to drop. What sounded like a reasonable deal one year can turn into an albatross the next.

TL;DR: I think the Spurs need to proceed with caution regarding Poeltl and operate with the knowledge that if he were a free agent this summer, he would have commanded less than $5 million per season. Base any offers off of that, IMO.

As well as I like Poeltl's personality I completely agree with this.
I would only go for a very cheap long-term deal.

[vavvi]

Mozgov was a 3rd best player in Lebron-Blatt finals run (after Love and Kyrie went down).
And literally the next season he became garbage.

[ragas]

Conclusion: Pay the non-shooting PG 20-25 mil. per year and give the non-shooting C 5 mil. Sounds reasonable!?

[ZeusWillJudge]

1. If recent great teams have had interchangeable centers with similar skills, is there really a need to lock up a specific one? Doesn't it make more sense to save resources for elsewhere?



Locking up a specific center makes a lot of sense. One that knows the system, is familiar with teammates, and most importantly wants to be here. There's value in that, even if everything else is held equal. Not an extra $5M a year worth, but definitely value.

Rasho was a eunuch. He was passive almost to the point of being timid, and as a result he didn't finish well around the rim at all. Poeltl's FG% is already 100 points higher than Rasho's best season. (.650 for Poeltl vs .550 for Rasho) His rebounding rate is also better than Rasho's. And Rasho was playing in an era when big, bruising C's were more of a necessity for more minutes of every game. I understand the comparison, but this ain't that.

The PnR is all about timing, and familiarity is always a part of that. Poeltl stands to be an increasing asset in that department. Locking him up at a reasonable price would be a definite plus for future success. I don't think $7M per is a bad price for that, but $6M would be better.

[GusT15]

Conclusion: Pay the non-shooting PG 20-25 mil. per year and give the non-shooting C 5 mil. Sounds reasonable!?

Why do you care? You're just a Poeltl fan ,not a Spurs fan.

If Poeltl can get 10+ Mil$ per from another team he can just go to that team.The Spurs salary cap is not of your concern.

[John B]

Poeltl’s skill set right now doesn’t command a 10mil/year. I wouldn’t really say the traditional Big Man is a dying breed especially since the Splash duo is down. And even when Thompson gets back, teams have already learned to closeout, defend them on PNR by putting a long defensive big. With the rise of an athletic big with handles, Greek Freak, Davis, teams need a defensive big to defend and slow down. That’s where Poeltl would earn his money, if he could learn to hold his ground.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

No reason to break the bank for him, but he fits in extremely well, so unless another team overpays him, seems dumb to let him walk and expect another player with similar skills, on paper, to fit in as well.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

I think he fits really well next to Luka, tbh. Could be an interesting pnr tandem down the road.

[Down Under]

Those stats are way out of context. How does he compare to Steven Adams offensively, paid $25mil/yr currently - pretty well according to the metrics in the article. What is his offensive ceiling? Gobert? Drummond? Prime Bogut? I think he's going to get paid pretty well IMO. He's a starting calibre Centre, an elite defender, decent finisher & improving passer. LMA is only guaranteed 7 mil after next season, so there's a fair chance Poeltl is our starting Centre.

[XDT76]

Poeltl is Spurs starter C or main backup C. Lyles role on the Spurs is unknown. Could even be the 3rd big man. So Poeltl should be paid less than Lyles?

[ZeusWillJudge]

Those stats are way out of context. How does he compare to Steven Adams offensively, paid $25mil/yr currently - pretty well according to the metrics in the article. What is his offensive ceiling? Gobert? Drummond? Prime Bogut? I think he's going to get paid pretty well IMO. He's a starting calibre Centre, an elite defender, decent finisher & improving passer. LMA is only guaranteed 7 mil after next season, so there's a fair chance Poeltl is our starting Centre.


LOL. This word "ceiling"? I do not think it means what you think it means. :lol

This is Poeltl's 4th season. Allowing for the fact that big men usually need a few years to adjust, this season should still tell whether Poeltl is going to step up to being more than he has been. And for the record, Adams is a big bruising sonofabitch who played 30 minutes a game in his fourth year, and close to 35 the two years after that. If Poeltl matches all of that then maybe he's worth more than $6-7M. But he'd have to start by putting on 30 lbs. of muscle in the offseason. You can put that on his list of "unlikely" performance goals.

[peacemaker885]

Excellent read as usual. Thanks timvp!

[JeffDuncan]

If he stays at his current role and mpg we wont have to worry about spurs overpaying tbh

As long as Pop is in charge we'll damn sure have to worry about that.

[JeffDuncan]

Poeltl should be given a one year extension, for 5 million, so that his contract will expire at the same time as LMA and DDR, and the entire situation can be reviewed. Giving him a longer extension would be unwise because there are too many unknowns about the summer of '21 and years following.

[look_at_g_shred]

It just sucks we missed out on Bitadze by one spot, wouldn't have to deal with this shit now
gross

[timvp]

Locking up a specific center makes a lot of sense. One that knows the system, is familiar with teammates, and most importantly wants to be here. There's value in that, even if everything else is held equal. Not an extra $5M a year worth, but definitely value.

The PnR is all about timing, and familiarity is always a part of that. Poeltl stands to be an increasing asset in that department. Locking him up at a reasonable price would be a definite plus for future success. I don't think $7M per is a bad price for that, but $6M would be better.

If the Spurs think he has room to improve, $7 million is okay, while $6 million is close enough to his actual value that I couldn't be too upset.


Rasho was a eunuch. He was passive almost to the point of being timid, and as a result he didn't finish well around the rim at all. Poeltl's FG% is already 100 points higher than Rasho's best season. (.650 for Poeltl vs .550 for Rasho) His rebounding rate is also better than Rasho's. And Rasho was playing in an era when big, bruising C's were more of a necessity for more minutes of every game. I understand the comparison, but this ain't that.

Eh, to be fair to my guy Rasho, he was pretty darn comparable to Poeltl. My only issue with him was his contract, tbh. I looked at the stats yesterday but IIRC, Rasho's rebounding stats per possession while on the Spurs were only slightly worse than Poeltl. And FG% was a wash if you factor in that Rasho took jumpers. On shots close to the rim, they both hover around 70%, IIRC.

[ragas]

Why do you care? You're just a Poeltl fan ,not a Spurs fan.

If Poeltl can get 10+ Mil$ per from another team he can just go to that team.The Spurs salary cap is not of your concern.

No, it‘s not of my concern. But I don‘t get why Spurs fans think that Dejounte Murray has proven to be worth so much more than Poeltl. He‘s a PG that didn‘t shoot or pass.

[Spurs da champs]

What has Jakob done or shown to be labeled "center of the future"? Bigs like him are a dime a dozen tbh.

[timvp]

Poeltl is Spurs starter C or main backup C. Lyles role on the Spurs is unknown. Could even be the 3rd big man. So Poeltl should be paid less than Lyles?


No, it‘s not of my concern. But I don‘t get why Spurs fans think that Dejounte Murray has proven to be worth so much more than Poeltl. He‘s a PG that didn‘t shoot or pass.

Lyles is a floor spacing big. That might be the most overpaid type of player in the league right now. Murray is a young guard who has shown a lot of potential -- another archetype that is being overpaid right now.

Traditional centers who don't shoot, don't score at an elite level and/or are unlikely to ever justify 30+ minutes is the exact type of player who no longer commands big money -- unfortunately for Poeltl, tbh.

[Seventyniner]

Kind of funny that Rasho also made $7M per year on his 6/42 deal. Of course it's apples and oranges because of how much the cap has spiked, but I still found the coincidence amusing.

[timvp]

Kind of funny that Rasho also made $7M per year on his 6/42 deal. Of course it's apples and oranges because of how much the cap has spiked, but I still found the coincidence amusing.

:lol Let's do the math...

Rasho made $5.6 million in 2003-04 in the first year of that deal. The salary cap that year was $43.84 million. Today the salary cap is $109.14 million. That means Rasho was making the equivalent of $13.9 million in today's NBA :wow

It was always a bad idea, hence my DO NOT SIGN RASHO (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2880) thread from 16 years ago, tbh.

[Blackhaus]

Excited to see what Jacob can do this year. I hope they start him next to LA and Pop doesn’t play head games with him. Just let him play, make mistakes so they can truely see what they have.

[ragas]

Lyles is a floor spacing big. That might be the most overpaid type of player in the league right now. Murray is a young guard who has shown a lot of potential -- another archetype that is being overpaid right now.

Traditional centers who don't shoot, don't score at an elite level and/or are unlikely to ever justify 30+ minutes is the exact type of player who no longer commands big money -- unfortunately for Poeltl, tbh.

I have no problem with 5 mil. for Poeltl. I‘m just wondering where the 20+ mil. for Murray are coming from. Has he proven anything that would justify that?

[ZeusWillJudge]

On shots close to the rim, they both hover around 70%, IIRC.

Well damn, that's a layer deeper. Really? Rasho was just so damn frustrating to me. He was so close to being so much more. It's hard to eliminate personal bias like that. My gut would say that Poeltl was a better finisher from close.

Of course Rasho played when big bigs were a necessity and commanded a premium price. Rasho may have been worth his salary at that time, but he sure as hell wouldn't be today. I think Poeltl will be more useful in the PnR this year, so I think he's more than an interchangeable drone for the Spurs. But that's still betting on him improving.

[BD24]

On a team friend deal you absolutely extend him.

[DAF86]

Your list makes good arguments why it's a bad idea to overpay that skill-set:

1. If recent great teams have had interchangeable centers with similar skills, is there really a need to lock up a specific one? Doesn't it make more sense to save resources for elsewhere?

2. Of the players you mentioned, Thompson, Capela and Adams are now on the trade market after signing long-term deals. Their teams would gladly salary dump their contracts if they could. Overpaying those players worked out poorly in each case. Looney and McGee fit the $5 million range I'm advocating for Poeltl. Bogut is a mix -- was overpaid so the Warriors dumped him and now he's entered the dime a dozen category.

If one were to learn a lesson for these teams, it's avoid overpaying your center because the going rate for centers continues to drop. What sounded like a reasonable deal one year can turn into an albatross the next.

TL;DR: I think the Spurs need to proceed with caution regarding Poeltl and operate with the knowledge that if he were a free agent this summer, he would have commanded less than $5 million per season. Base any offers off of that, IMO.

Sure, the question here is determining if 6, 7 or even 8 millions per year is overpaying for Poeltl.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Eh, to be fair to my guy Rasho, he was pretty darn comparable to Poeltl. My only issue with him was his contract, tbh. I looked at the stats yesterday but IIRC, Rasho's rebounding stats per possession while on the Spurs were only slightly worse than Poeltl. And FG% was a wash if you factor in that Rasho took jumpers. On shots close to the rim, they both hover around 70%, IIRC.


So I went back and looked at the shooting statistics, and you're right. Rasho made a high percentage of his 0-3 foot shots. I remember him going up soft and missing so many of them, but overall he made a good percentage. The difference I saw was that Poeltl takes 70% of his shots from 0-3 feet. Rasho took about 32% of his shots from 0-3 feet when he was in SA. That was another thing about him - he often settled for a jumper when he could have gotten to the rim with just a little bit of effort/aggression. What kind of surprised me was that Rasho took about 30% of his shots from 10 feet out to the 3P line. At his FG%, that's not providing spacing - it's just a lot of dry possessions.

I'd rather that Poeltl could provide some spacing with an outside shot, but I kind of like the fact that he manages to get inside the restricted circle with 70% of his shots - especially since he makes 70% of them. That's a pretty potent weapon, as often as you can get it. He didn't take quite as many attempts Per36 as Rasho did in his first two seasons here, but more than in Rasho's third year. If they start calling Poeltl's number a few more times a game, out of the PnR, that evens out too.

At the same price, I'd rather see him here than most of the second-tier bigs in the league.

[BatManu20]

Absolutely. 3-yrs/$16M or $17M is fair. Poeltl showed promise down the stretch of the season after we bagged Gasold and I think he’s going to get considerably better tbh. Still only 23.

[DAF86]

Absolutely. 3-yrs/$16M or $17M is fair. Poeltl showed promise down the stretch of the season after we bagged Gasold and I think he’s going to get considerably better tbh. Still only 23.

If Poeltl can be had for 5/6 millions per year, I would rather lock him up for as much as possible, tbh.

[TD 21]

28/4 imo

Sounds about right. I wouldn't even be surprised to see 4/32. Neither is some outlandish number in a league where the average salary is nearing 10.

This talk of 5 is unrealistic. He's clearly better than Looney and the latter is a pseudo center (because of his skillset, he has to play it in today's game, but he's really a power forward masquerading), which limits him to a about a 20 mpg backup role.

Though different players, Bryant and Zubac are more comparable both in terms of caliber and because they're legit centers.

[Seventyniner]

:lol Let's do the math...

Rasho made $5.6 million in 2003-04 in the first year of that deal. The salary cap that year was $43.84 million. Today the salary cap is $109.14 million. That means Rasho was making the equivalent of $13.9 million in today's NBA :wow

It was always a bad idea, hence my DO NOT SIGN RASHO (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2880) thread from 16 years ago, tbh.

You were a guest in 2003?

[Smithie]

They have a full season to assess his fit with Murray, White, and Walker. No reason to overthink any of this now. If they see something there they can confidently say will grow over the next few seasons, like good pick and roll chemistry, they will make him part of their long-term plans. No organization values continuity, as a means to achieve a sum that is greater than its parts, more than the Spurs.

[duncan2150]

Something like 21/3 Will be ok, i think he Will have several 5 millions offers, That's a little bit low

[cd021]

Makes sense to lock him up now, for 4 years, even if it means a slight overpay from the $5 million price tag. 4 Yrs, 28 million is d fine.

Cap is supposed to be $116 million in 20-21, him at around $7 million would only be 6% of the cap. By year 2 of that deal, he could be the starting center and making less than 5 percent of the cap.

[Jsmythe]

Obviously, the Spurs should avoid overpaying, but I think they could go as high as 7 million per year in order to lock up Jakob for the long term. Personally, I think he will prove to be worth more than that, but as Timvp points out, the market for such players is pretty low right now so it would be prudent to stick to the market rate.

As far as Dejounte Murray, the whole "4 yr / 100 million" thing is just speculation. I'm thinking 15-18 million a year is more in the range of what the Spurs should be paying, depending on how well he plays next year. Then again, I never understood the reasoning for overpaying Patty Mills and Pau Gasol, so it's entirely possible that Dejounte will get some huge contract also. I mean, if Jamal Murray can get $34 million a year (a huge mistake in my mind), anything is possible.

[TheGreatYacht]

Javale McGee and Nerlens Noel are out here earning the vet minimum, Dwight Howard is unemployed, and Cousins is playing for $10/hr.

Poeltl averaged 5 points, 5 rebounds, and hardly a block a game. People are truly smoking something if they think he’s worthy of anything more than 6M/yr. Look, I get it. We got fleeced in the Kawhi trade and the majority of you want to act like we didn’t get some second hand garbage in return. That’s fine. You just cut your losses and don’t double down on your mistakes by extending DeRozan and Poeltl on ludicrous deals.

The other half of posters saying he should get paid don’t know a crap player when they see one. Happened with Splitter and his elite screens (lol), Fathead and his high bball IQ (:lol), Bertans and his floor spreading (until March hits)

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Aron Baynes expiring deal was traded away by the Celtics to clear cap space and he's only getting $5.5M and was highly regarding by the Celtics and their fanbase. I agree that offering Poetl something in the neighborhood of 3yrs/$17M is fair. If I were him I'd take it.

[poopbox]

Maybe. I'm a little gun-shy after living through the Radoslav Nesterovic Era when Spurs fans justified overpaying him because he "set great screens," "was a good teammates," and "protected the paint." In reality, Nesterovic was limited and his true role was as a quality backup center -- not a shoehorned starting center.

Poeltl is a similar type prospect, if you do some talent inflation adjustment. Good, solid player. Strong backup. A starter? It's not something to be excited about, tbh. Maybe if he's your fifth best starter and not playing more than half the game, otherwise the team's ceiling is pretty low, IMO.

That's why I think the Spurs need to be vigilant regarding Poeltl's salary. Considering his relatively limited upside, it'd be unwise to jump the gun and extend him for an amount that could turn him into an albatross down the line.

I'd do a deal at $5 million. Even $6 million, just to cover yourself in case he can suddenly shoot threes or something. More than that? I'd probably force him to go get an offersheet as a restricted free agent. Teams just aren't spending on his skill-set anymore.

Worst case if Poeltl erupts next season and he leaves because he's overpaid like Slomo, CoJo, Boban, etc. ... you sign Milutinov, elevate Eubanks if he pans out or go out there and sign one of those $5 million bigs who are now readily available every summer.

Is Milutinov every going to come over here?
I am fine with Eubanks as the 3rd big but I think he is substantially worse than Poeltl...I saw to many no name summer league guys finish over him like he wasn't even there to think he could ever be a good rim protector...
What would Poeltl have to do to "erupt"? I don't ever see that happening because he is never going to get enough touches on offense to put up any type of numbers...

You said if he is your fifth best starter...that is exactly what i think he will be...

Now think of all the players on recent championship teams...who was the 5th best player...was their salary more than 5 million dollars...regardless of position? I would say yes...and then I would ask...why would Poeltl settle for 5 million dollar if he could be the 5th best player on a championship team......

I also expect Poeltl scoring numbers to jump once LMA leaves...since he won't be playing with one of the 10 worst passing bigs I have ever seen in my life...

I also expect him to be a perfect fit with Luka...and stuff like that matters right...how you fit with your current team...

11 million would be steep but I'd put my hiking boots on for it...

Now if he asked for 11 million and one free number 5 dry from whataburger i'd have to tell him it was great but i think he needs to looks elsewhere...that one burger a week is just further than i am willing to go...

[TrainOfThought5]

4/24 or 5/30 would be ok...he seems the kind of guy willing to learn and improve...and that needs commitment from the team and stability. Once he's set he could just focus on playing and become a rotation piece for years to come and possibly the starting center if he develops some outside shooting (that could be possible with our coaching staff already focused on that with bigs like Eubanks and a young big like Samanic that already has that weapon but needs to develop consistency).

5/30 would be perfect.

[TrainOfThought5]

Javale McGee and Nerlens Noel are out here earning the vet minimum, Dwight Howard is unemployed, and Cousins is playing for $10/hr.

Poeltl averaged 5 points, 5 rebounds, and hardly a block a game. People are truly smoking something if they think he’s worthy of anything more than 6M/yr. Look, I get it. We got fleeced in the Kawhi trade and the majority of you want to act like we didn’t get some second hand garbage in return. That’s fine. You just cut your losses and don’t double down on your mistakes by extending DeRozan and Poeltl on ludicrous deals.

The other half of posters saying he should get paid don’t know a crap player when they see one. Happened with Splitter and his elite screens (lol), Fathead and his high bball IQ (:lol), Bertans and his floor spreading (until March hits)

We won a title with Splitter.

[TimDunkem]

We won a title with Splitter.

And Poeltl isn't even half the player he was.

[Shakril]

^ so why the need to extend him now?

I thought he was average vs Denver.

He was the best Defender the entire Series. Without him the series would not have even lasted for 7 games. No he was above average.

[MultiTroll]

He was the best Defender the entire Series. Without him the series would not have even lasted for 7 games. No he was above average.
I did not watch all the games.
The parts I saw The Joker was roasting him.

[offset formation]

There's zero reason to lock up money long term with Poetl when he can easily be replaced and isn't integral to the team. I like him, but even at 5 million per I'm not sure why you'd do it.

I keep seeing this repeated...If he's so easily replaced why couldn't we replace Splitter for 5 years?

Seriously, most everyone on here has been hoping for a Splitter-esque center since he left, and now we seemingly have a more athletic, younger, healthier version of him and you guys keep saying he's readily replaceable.

I dont get it.

[GreekSpursfan]

Yeah. And I think the Spurs do. They've always valued good post players highly.

He has zero post game whatsoever. I like his energy and the will to be positive on the court, i don't like his bball IQ especially on defense were he makes unnecessary fouls and gets caught out of position some times. This is the year he needs to show a few more things if he wants to get paid. It depends on the price.

[timvp]

I keep seeing this repeated...If he's so easily replaced why couldn't we replace Splitter for 5 years?

Seriously, most everyone on here has been hoping for a Splitter-esque center since he left, and now we seemingly have a more athletic, younger, healthier version of him and you guys keep saying he's readily replaceable.

I dont get it.

Splitter was essentially replaced by Aldridge, tbh. Or if you're talking about the starting center position, Splitter was replaced by Duncan. Add in Old Gasol and Dedmon in the meantime and I don't think Splitter was missed too much, if at all.

But, yeah, Splitter is a pretty good comparison for Poeltl. Peak Splitter was better than current Poeltl ... but even he wouldn't be worth a ton in today's game. He was one of the best pick-and-roll bigs on the planet but he couldn't do much once removed from Ginobili and Parker.

[Spurs da champs]

Prime Splitter while short lived was a great one on one defender as well. His defense against Dirk & LMA was awesome in 2014. Poeltl regularly gets abused against skilled big centers.

[Mr. Body]

Poeltl is much stiffer than Splitter, but a better shotblocker, I think?

[ZeusWillJudge]

He was one of the best pick-and-roll bigs on the planet but he couldn't do much once removed from Ginobili and Parker.


Not trying to be argumentative... but isn't that the nature of the PnR? Plus the fact that Tiago got injured the next season and only played 40-something games, and then about 10 the next season? I don't disagree so much with the comparison, but Poeltl is going to be 23 this season. By the time Tiago came to SA, he was almost 28 and had a lot more experience than Poeltl.

I still haven't fallen out of love with a well-run pick and roll, especially against so many teams that don't pay that much attention to defense. This fourth pro season is pretty much make or break, and I think Poeltl will be better than he was last season. I think the Spurs will extend him, at a price that can be swallowed. But I've been wrong before trying to predict what PATFO will do.

[Mugen]

Splitter was essentially replaced by Aldridge, tbh. Or if you're talking about the starting center position, Splitter was replaced by Duncan. Add in Old Gasol and Dedmon in the meantime and I don't think Splitter was missed too much, if at all.

But, yeah, Splitter is a pretty good comparison for Poeltl. Peak Splitter was better than current Poeltl ... but even he wouldn't be worth a ton in today's game. He was one of the best pick-and-roll bigs on the planet but he couldn't do much once removed from Ginobili and Parker.

Disagree. Tbh.

[SAGirl]

I don’t see them extending him. They have no incentive to do so when the RFA system is so favorable to incumbent teams. They have lately chosen to let the market set the price on their roleplayers RFA and go from there. I like Poltl but don’t see how they treat him any different unless he signs a very very cheap deal.

[timvp]

I don’t see them extending him. They have no incentive to do so when the RFA system is so favorable to incumbent teams. They have lately chosen to let the market set the price on their roleplayers RFA and go from there. I like Poltl but don’t see how they treat him any different unless he signs a very very cheap deal.

:tu, tbh.

That's how I see it and how I expect (hope?) how the Spurs see it. I like Poeltl. Good player. But not someone you go too far out of your way to lock up, IMHO.

[DPG21920]

We sure with the Patty Mills contract that SA won’t rush to this and bid against no one?

[look_at_g_shred]

I keep seeing this repeated...If he's so easily replaced why couldn't we replace Splitter for 5 years?

Seriously, most everyone on here has been hoping for a Splitter-esque center since he left, and now we seemingly have a more athletic, younger, healthier version of him and you guys keep saying he's readily replaceable.

I dont get it.

[cutewizard]

:elephant

[Shakril]

I did not watch all the games.
The parts I saw The Joker was roasting him.

That was the gameplan. Let the Joker go crazy but take everyone else out. It was no coincidence, that when Poeltl was on the Floor the Team was much better defensivly. Joker is a great player, he will make his points against everybody. I watched every game. Poeltl was the most consistent of all the spurs. His impact you could see on the Floor.

[TKOK]

Splitter was essentially replaced by Aldridge, tbh. Or if you're talking about the starting center position, Splitter was replaced by Duncan. Add in Old Gasol and Dedmon in the meantime and I don't think Splitter was missed too much, if at all.

But, yeah, Splitter is a pretty good comparison for Poeltl. Peak Splitter was better than current Poeltl ... but even he wouldn't be worth a ton in today's game. He was one of the best pick-and-roll bigs on the planet but he couldn't do much once removed from Ginobili and Parker.

Jakob has neither of them to PnR with.

Right now i think 3/20 would be ok. (That's about 30th place in Center-Salary in the league where i see him right now)
But it depends if he is allowed to get more attempts per possession. If he is unable to convince his team he is a good way to score (more) baskets he will stay pretty cheap or go even cheaper.

[Sanjohnny2018]

I sure hope not. The guy is average at best. His one or two dunks against low tier teams is not impressive. Having said that, the spurs will give 4 years 80 million.

[BackHome]

He is good people people still compare centers to David and Timmy. Almost every Center has problems the first year for what ever reason they have a hard time adjusting to Poops scheme. But I except him to get better and if Poop starts calling back door loop plays his offense numbers will be much better.

[mo7888]

When asked what a Jacob Poeltl extension would look like, Steve Kyler of basketball insiders said "No idea... typically agents look at what comparable guys got... 12pts and 11 rebs in San Antonio, and a 17 PER... Myles Turner got 4-year, $72 million on similar numbers - 12pts 7 rebounds. 16.6 PER"

[Spurs da champs]

When asked what a Jacob Poeltl extension would look like, Steve Kyler of basketball insiders said "No idea... typically agents look at what comparable guys got... 12pts and 11 rebs in San Antonio, and a 17 PER... Myles Turner got 4-year, $72 million on similar numbers - 12pts 7 rebounds. 16.6 PER"

Myles Turner is an elite shot blocker and can knock down 3's. Theyre not really similar.

[timvp]

When asked what a Jacob Poeltl extension would look like, Steve Kyler of basketball insiders said "No idea... typically agents look at what comparable guys got... 12pts and 11 rebs in San Antonio, and a 17 PER... Myles Turner got 4-year, $72 million on similar numbers - 12pts 7 rebounds. 16.6 PER"

Steve Kyler of Hoopsworld infamy just makes stuff up, tbh. But this is even bad on Hoopsworld levels. Those numbers aren't based in any sort of reality. As far as I can tell, he is trying to compare Poeltl's per 36 minutes stats to Turner's regular stats :lol

[mo7888]

Steve Kyler of Hoopsworld infamy just makes stuff up, tbh. But this is even bad on Hoopsworld levels. Those numbers aren't based in any sort of reality. As far as I can tell, he is trying to compare Poeltl's per 36 minutes stats to Turner's regular stats :lol

It does seem like a gross overpay to me and this is coming from a guy that thinks he'll get a good bit more than the numbers we are talking about on ST if he hits the open market.

[ZeusWillJudge]

:tu, tbh.

That's how I see it and how I expect (hope?) how the Spurs see it. I like Poeltl. Good player. But not someone you go too far out of your way to lock up, IMHO.


I've been trying to figure out what you were getting at with this. It sounds like you don't think Poeltl will sign at a price that you think is justified - so you're saying, "Don't do it," like you did with Tiago? And you think anything above about $6M per would be more than replacement cost. Is that about right?

I think there's a good chance that some team will offer him more than that, partly because that's where the league is now, and partly because there's always a market for Spurs' players. And I agree that chasing a bad deal is a mistake. Boban reportedly tried to talk to Pop about taking less money to stay in SA. I think Poeltl likes it here, and sees more opportunity than he would have on some crap team with cap space. He might take a more reasonable offer to lock down a job here. If not, let him go. He's worth having, I think, but not worth chasing.




When asked what a Jacob Poeltl extension would look like, Steve Kyler of basketball insiders said "No idea... typically agents look at what comparable guys got... 12pts and 11 rebs in San Antonio, and a 17 PER... Myles Turner got 4-year, $72 million on similar numbers - 12pts 7 rebounds. 16.6 PER"


And that's just stupid. Like Jabari young suggesting the Spurs might trade Aldridge for Evan Turner's expiring and some other random ballast. These guys get paid to write this crap.

[Rummpd]

Whatever makes him tradeable down the line if needed

[slick'81]

Fck per:rollinpoodle is what he is 5/5 but saying he gets anythng more then 10 mil per is beyond retarded

[EricB]

Also, he doesn't seem to be a player with problem with playing in San Antonio. That's increasingly a problem in this NBA.

Based on absolutely nothing what so ever.

[Mr. Body]

Based on absolutely nothing what so ever.

Dude, for serious? Brain damaged or what?

[Kawhitstorm]

I think the Spurs have to give him something like $24-28M/4 if they want to extend him. Otherwise, he should just play the field. You look at his "fair market value" at $5 Million APY. I see that as a reasonable floor. Like maybe he falls off, but he should get enough of a backup role, he's young and he has great advanced stats. Add in the Spurs' seal of approval, and he probably has a decent market. The plan should be to give him a bit more than his ceiling now and how he can develop into the future starting center. If they don't believe he's going to be good enough for that, then they should have traded him, because if I'm him, I'm diving on that QO as soon as it's extended if my market is really that bad.

And if he is good enough to be a good $5 Million APY player, the slight overpay won't hurt the club. Having solid dependable guys with years ahead of them is worth a $2-Million premium.

Zubac: 4yrs/28mill

[venitian navigator]

Zubac: 4yrs/28mill

Zubac's contract is a more than adequate comparison...potential starting center in the same conference for a team with the ambitions to compete for the title.
But
a) a first element to consider is that you have to put that salary in the light that taxes in California are terrible compared to the Texas's ones...
b) in an offensive minded league like nba has become since the "beautiful game" and the coming of the Warriors, a center like Zubac (better offense, less defense than Poeltl) is actually more valuable and definitively has an higher market value...

That said, an offer of a 5/30 is actual a little above of market value for a player of Jacob skills but worth giving considering that looks like he likes the place and environment...and could have a decent to good place on the team for the years to come...

[talkspurs]

I think we can only have two players on a 5 year contract. So if we give Potel a 5yr contract that means noone more 5yr for murray/white/walker.

[Kawhitstorm]

Zubac's contract is a more than adequate comparison...potential starting center in the same conference for a team with the ambitions to compete for the title..

-Zubac/Beasley: traded for Muscala

-Poodle/DeFrozen: traded for the best player in the league

RC Drunkford:lmao

[ducks]

Yes before Duncan gets him to good

[phxspurfan]

As good as the signs were from Purrtl, he isn't worth an extension at this point. If we can get a guy like Boban for 3.5M, no way we should keep a backup C like Purrtl for 5-7M. Not a big difference between what the two provide (backup C spot minutes) in our offense now. And playing 2 non-shooting bigs is suicide in :lol Today's NBA :lol now anyway.

Now if we did our job and got Anunoby or Siakam instead, we would have had to pay.

[Shakril]

As good as the signs were from Purrtl, he isn't worth an extension at this point. If we can get a guy like Boban for 3.5M, no way we should keep a backup C like Purrtl for 5-7M. Not a big difference between what the two provide (backup C spot minutes) in our offense now. And playing 2 non-shooting bigs is suicide in :lol Today's NBA :lol now anyway.

Now if we did our job and got Anunoby or Siakam instead, we would have had to pay.

Poeltl is a solid starting Center which Boban is not. Second Anunoby and Siakam were never really in play, also this story gets old. You can get an Allstar and a good Young Player or nothing.
As the Season progressed, Aldridge and Poeltl played better and better together. What Poeltl lacks is a decent midrange Shot, which can be worked on. Not every player needs to be a 3-Point Shooter.
Everything Else Poeltl is already what you need: Able to defend the Perimenter decent enough, shot blocking/altering shot, rim protection, efficent finishing around the rim, great offensive rebounder (defensiv could be better), one of the best screen setters of the league, high Basketball IQ, good lockerroom guy, the defense of the team is much better with him on the court. Can defend one on one against better bigs. There are not many non All-Star Center who can provide that at the age of 23 and he only is getting better.

[spurraider21]

Splitter was essentially replaced by Aldridge, tbh. Or if you're talking about the starting center position, Splitter was replaced by Duncan. Add in Old Gasol and Dedmon in the meantime and I don't think Splitter was missed too much, if at all.

But, yeah, Splitter is a pretty good comparison for Poeltl. Peak Splitter was better than current Poeltl ... but even he wouldn't be worth a ton in today's game. He was one of the best pick-and-roll bigs on the planet but he couldn't do much once removed from Ginobili and Parker.
but can poeltl post up fisher, tbh?

[Mugen]

but can poeltl post up fisher, tbh?

https://i.gifer.com/AYQV.gif

[Cklbmk]

I wouldn't give him more than 8mil probably.

I like him, but he's pretty replaceable and I'd like the cap for 2021

[RC_Drunkford]

Poeltl is a solid starting Center which Boban is not. Second Anunoby and Siakam were never really in play, also this story gets old. You can get an Allstar and a good Young Player or nothing.
As the Season progressed, Aldridge and Poeltl played better and better together. What Poeltl lacks is a decent midrange Shot, which can be worked on. Not every player needs to be a 3-Point Shooter.
Everything Else Poeltl is already what you need: Able to defend the Perimenter decent enough, shot blocking/altering shot, rim protection, efficent finishing around the rim, great offensive rebounder (defensiv could be better), one of the best screen setters of the league, high Basketball IQ, good lockerroom guy, the defense of the team is much better with him on the court. Can defend one on one against better bigs. There are not many non All-Star Center who can provide that at the age of 23 and he only is getting better.

No post moves at all, not even a great hook shot, not a great passer, not good enough of a defensive rebounder, bad free throw shooter, no jump shot. There are a lot of things he can work on, he's far from elite just a natural good fit for this team and the kind of offense we like to run with the bench.

[benefactor]

https://i.gifer.com/AYQV.gif
:cry golden god :cry

[mo7888]

I wouldn't give him more than 8mil probably.

I like him, but he's pretty replaceable and I'd like the cap for 2021

That's the most I'd give too on an extension. I think we probably lose him next summer because he'll be to expensive on the open market. Yes, we could match but I don't think we will when he gets offers around 12M.

[BackHome]

Only decent thing is we have Nikola we can bring over but yeah he will get 10 to 14 a mill contract from someone- New York?

[cd021]

No post moves at all, not even a great hook shot, not a great passer, not good enough of a defensive rebounder, bad free throw shooter, no jump shot. There are a lot of things he can work on, he's far from elite just a natural good fit for this team and the kind of offense we like to run with the bench.

Really the only issue that matters, that you listed, are FT shooting and defensive rebounding and both are fixable. I also don't think he's a bad passer, just hasn't been asked to facilitate much.

Centers don't necessarily need to have a jumper or post moves. He could easily average a double-double by being a rim roller who can hit 70% from the line and get buckets off tip ins.

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't see him commanding much given the landscape of the market for centers these days -- now that there's a surplus of bigs since bigger wings have flooded one of the "big" positions, or the 4 spot.

I'd say 6-8 mil per is about right.

[look_at_g_shred]

I swear the “easily replaceable” idea is idiotic.

[Shakril]

No post moves at all, not even a great hook shot, not a great passer, not good enough of a defensive rebounder, bad free throw shooter, no jump shot. There are a lot of things he can work on, he's far from elite just a natural good fit for this team and the kind of offense we like to run with the bench.

He was also good at toronto. A totally different play style. He is a good passer, dont know why you think otherwise. His emphasis is on defense, offense can be learned. Nobody said anything about elite. We are talking about stating center, and he clearly is good enough.

[BackHome]

Teams like Golden State and Flakers he’ll even Dallas will throw mad money at him and He will NOT be easily replaced if we loose him.

[offset formation]

That's the most I'd give too on an extension. I think we probably lose him next summer because he'll be to expensive on the open market. Yes, we could match but I don't think we will when he gets offers around 12M.

You might be right but luckily the Spurs will have one more full season to gauge his talents, and moreover, where they think his cieling is and how that will fit in with a youndmg developing core.

So frankly, I'm not too worried about it either way. If he shows out this year, and earns a bigger annual paycheck, then that's a great problem to have. If he underperforms, then either they let him go without an offer or they keep him in house for a club-friendly deal, while he continues to develop.

Ultimately, in PATFO I trust. Especially with a second year of development under his belt.

[offset formation]

That's the most I'd give too on an extension. I think we probably lose him next summer because he'll be to expensive on the open market. Yes, we could match but I don't think we will when he gets offers around 12M.

You might be right but luckily the Spurs will have one more full season to gauge his talents, and moreover, where they think his ceiling is and how that will fit in with a young and developing core.

So frankly, I'm not too worried about it either way. If he shows out this year, and earns a bigger annual paycheck, then that's a great problem to have. If he underperforms, then either they let him go without an offer or they keep him in house for a club-friendly deal, while he continues to develop.

Ultimately, in PATFO I trust. Especially with a second year of development under his belt.

[DPG21920]

If you don’t extend and then lose Poeltl and then dont extend and lose DeRozan you really traded Kawhi for Keldon Johnson?

[sasaint]

You might be right but luckily the Spurs will have one more full season to gauge his talents, and moreover, where they think his ceiling is and how that will fit in with a young and developing core.

So frankly, I'm not too worried about it either way. If he shows out this year, and earns a bigger annual paycheck, then that's a great problem to have. If he underperforms, then either they let him go without an offer or they keep him in house for a club-friendly deal, while he continues to develop.

Ultimately, in PATFO I trust. Especially with a second year of development under his belt.

Not just another year to gauge his development, but a year of working with Tim. Of all the players currently on the roster Poodle stands to benefit most from Tim’s presence as a full-time assistant coach.

[offset formation]

Not just another year to gauge his development, but a year of working with Tim. Of all the players currently on the roster Poodle stands to benefit most from Tim’s presence as a full-time assistant coach.

Indeed. My expectations are that he becomes an integral part of the youth movement coming to the ATT Center. I think he forces a 10-12M year contract after a helluva season.

[CGD]

I don’t see them extending him. They have no incentive to do so when the RFA system is so favorable to incumbent teams. They have lately chosen to let the market set the price on their roleplayers RFA and go from there. I like Poltl but don’t see how they treat him any different unless he signs a very very cheap deal.

This is right. The only counterpoint I can think of is if there is some reason it makes sense to get out from under his summer of 2020 11-12M caphold now. I keep forgetting he was a lotto pick. Kinda the same reasoning but with opposite outcomes (waiting to last moment) for dealing with Murray’s extension.

But I guess that would also mean they’re moving on from LMA/DDR and are planning to open capspace, which I don’t see right now for next summer.

[Big P]

Knowing the fo, they will probably outbid themselves like they did with gasol and mills and give the kid a 4 year $45 mil contract...but now that Wright is the gm, maybe things will change.

[spurraider21]

If you don’t extend and then lose Poeltl and then dont extend and lose DeRozan you really traded Kawhi for Keldon Johnson?
sunk cost fallacy

if poodle is priced out and derozan ends up being a terrible fit, you move on

[DPG21920]

sunk cost fallacy

if poodle is priced out and derozan ends up being a terrible fit, you move on

Nah - you trade them if you know they aren’t in future plans to ensure you optimize your ROI. It’s what good teams do a la Clippers with Harris last year.

[spurraider21]

Nah - you trade them if you know they aren’t in future plans to ensure you optimize your ROI. It’s what good teams do a la Clippers with Harris last year.
im just sayin, ur decision to trade them or not to trade them, sign them or not sign them, shouldn't be based on the fact that you got them for kawhi

its an independent decision.

[DPG21920]

im just sayin, ur decision to trade them or not to trade them, sign them or not sign them, shouldn't be based on the fact that you got them for kawhi

its an independent decision.

In theory but in business and with fans that pay to support you optics does come into play. Fallacy or not, it does.

I agree with what you are saying in a bubble, but this franchise and it’s direction is still being shaped by that very trade and you don’t let the assets you have just walk. It’s really inexcusable actually. If you know you aren’t keeping them, you absolutely are obligated to get something for them.

Having one extra season of them is not an acceptable ROI. The part of what you are saying that’s true for sure is regarding re-signing them. If they aren’t a good fit, you don’t do that just because you traded Kawhi for them.

But the other part? Trading them if that is true? That is not some fallacy and is in fact part of the actual equation.

[spurraider21]

you dont keep them just because you traded for them. you keep them because it is the right decision with respect to the roster, cap, etc., period.

as soon as your decision making factors in that you traded for them and therefore...., you are no longer being rational.

[DPG21920]

you dont keep them just because you traded for them. you keep them because it is the right decision with respect to the roster, cap, etc.

Yeah - that’s what I’m agreeing with. The decision to keep them or re-sign them has nothing to do with Kawhi. But the decision to trade them? It does.

[spurraider21]

Yeah - that’s what I’m agreeing with. The decision to keep them or re-sign them has nothing to do with Kawhi. But the decision to trade them? It does.
thats not being rational

if you're going to be making sub-optimal decisions because "well, the fans will be pissed about that trade we made in 2018" then you should be fired

[DPG21920]

thats not being rational

if you're going to be making sub-optimal decisions because "well, the fans will be pissed about that trade we made in 2018" then you should be fired

I am lost; how is trading someone that you know doesn’t fit and that you don’t want to re-sign “sub optimal”

And forget the fans; a good GM never misses an opportunity to squeeze every drop of value. Letting a guy walk vs getting an asset when you know they are walking is BAD GMing

[spurraider21]

I am lost; how is trading someone that you know doesn’t fit and that you don’t want to re-sign “sub optimal”

And forget the fans; a good GM never misses an opportunity to squeeze every drop of value. Letting a guy walk vs getting an asset when you know they are walking is BAD GMing
im saying if your decision of whether or not to trade ddr/poodle is influenced by the fact that they were part of the kawhi trade, you're thinking backwards instead of forward

you cited fans and optics as reasons why that should be a consideration... i dont see how any of that is rational

[DPG21920]

im saying if your decision of whether or not to trade ddr/poodle is influenced by the fact that they were part of the kawhi trade, you're thinking backwards instead of forward

you cited fans and optics as reasons why that should be a consideration... i dont see how any of that is rational

I cited fans as part of the equation; not the entire equation. I thought I was pretty clear on the fact that letting Poeltl/DeRozan go if you know you don’t want them after next season and being left with Keldon only for Kawhi is bad GM’ing and the trade is still an active part of shaping the franchise as this point.

It’s not some sunk cost with zero control; the trade is still being fleshed out in terms of ROI over the years with the assets accumulated.


Pretty much how every trade is valued/gauged. No different than trading Kawhi for a future pick. DeRozan/Poeltl are the future picks and it would be like just electing not to pick someone with those picks if you don’t trade them and just let them walk.

[spurraider21]

once they're on your team, whether its the right move to trade them, re-sign them, or let them walk, is 100% independent of who you traded to get them.

[DPG21920]

once they're on your team, whether its the right move to trade them, re-sign them, or let them walk, is 100% independent of who you traded to get them.

Let’s just disagree and it does not really matter. Kawhi or no Kawhi, its bad GM’ing to let them walk for nothing instead of trading them IF you know you don’t want them.

[spurraider21]

Let’s just disagree and it does not really matter. Kawhi or no Kawhi, its bad GM’ing to let them walk for nothing instead of trading them IF you know you don’t want them.
i agree with that. thats why im all for trading DDR. im just sayin you dont need to factor in kawhi deal to reach that conclusion

[DPG21920]

i agree with that. thats why im all for trading DDR. im just sayin you dont need to factor in kawhi deal to reach that conclusion

I get what you are saying; I just disagree. But really at the end of the day that aspect is not what is important.

[RC_Drunkford]

Really the only issue that matters, that you listed, are FT shooting and defensive rebounding and both are fixable. I also don't think he's a bad passer, just hasn't been asked to facilitate much.

Centers don't necessarily need to have a jumper or post moves. He could easily average a double-double by being a rim roller who can hit 70% from the line and get buckets off tip ins.

I never said he's a bad passer, I said he's not a great one. How many high-lows did he have with LaMarcus last season? 0. The high-low pass is not a difficult thing. Same with the hammer play. How many times has he passed the ball to the 3-point shooter in the corner?

[Shakril]

I never said he's a bad passer, I said he's not a great one. How many high-lows did he have with LaMarcus last season? 0. The high-low pass is not a difficult thing. Same with the hammer play. How many times has he passed the ball to the 3-point shooter in the corner?

So you are picking specific plays to undermine the Value of Poeltl. Especially the second point with passes to three pointers is even a false one. He has made many passes to 3- Pointers (does not matter if corner or not, they have to be open), there were even some pretty ones.

[DaBears]

General rule of thumb, with NBA players if by Year 3 they generally are who they are.. Not much can be done to improve a player after year 3, most analysts say they have reached their full potential by that point.

[bluebellmaniac]

I think we can only have two players on a 5 year contract. So if we give Potel a 5yr contract that means noone more 5yr for murray/white/walker.

Is that part of the CBA? Interesting.

[bluebellmaniac]

General rule of thumb, with NBA players if by Year 3 they generally are who they are.. Not much can be done to improve a player after year 3, most analysts say they have reached their full potential by that point.

Big men aren't fully developed in 3 years. Maybe guards, not big men.

[talkspurs]

Is that part of the CBA? Interesting.

Yes I believe it is. I thought it was only one player then looked it up and looked like it was two for rookie. Someone with better CBA knowledge can correct me if wrong.

CBA looks like only one which is what I originally thought. Guess the other article I read was wrong. they were saying only one could be traded for but could have 2 on your team. Here is a better link that explains the CBA. Also extensions has to be as much as salary in rookie contract.

https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/243492/CBA-Encyclopedia-Designated-Player-Provision

[XDT76]

If you don’t extend and then lose Poeltl and then dont extend and lose DeRozan you really traded Kawhi for Keldon Johnson?

Compared to losing Kawhi for nothing, that's not a bad deal.

[DaBears]

That goes for Big men as well.. By Yr 3 coaching staff know what they have or dont have in a player, and what they can expect.

[tbdog]

There have been plenty of players that become very good much later on.

[cd021]

That goes for Big men as well.. By Yr 3 coaching staff know what they have or dont have in a player, and what they can expect.

I wouldn't agree with that, not for big men. They tend take longer to reach their full potential, he's only 23, still has a way's to go before reaching his full potential.

[Chinook]

I think we can only have two players on a 5 year contract. So if we give Potel a 5yr contract that means noone more 5yr for murray/white/walker.

That's not the rule. The rule is you can have only one rookie-contract DPE at a time (by signing and an additional one by trading) and two vet DPE contracts. Jakob can't get a five-year deal unless it starts at the max, so no point in even discussing that. But if they give him a new five-year deal next summer, it doesn't count against their DPE total in either category.

The Celtics couldn't trade for Davis last year because of Irving also being a DPE rookie. But they were able to trade for Kawhi since Leonard's contract wasn't an extension.

[ZeusWillJudge]

That's not the rule. The rule is you can have only one rookie-contract DPE at a time (by signing and an additional one by trading) and two vet DPE contracts. Jakob can't get a five-year deal unless it starts at the max, so no point in even discussing that. But if they give him a new five-year deal next summer, it doesn't count against their DPE total in either category.

The Celtics couldn't trade for Davis last year because of Irving also being a DPE rookie. But they were able to trade for Kawhi since Leonard's contract wasn't an extension.


That's a damn good synopsis of it. Almost beside the point that short of a Jokic-like season, nobody is going to think about handing Poeltl a 5-year deal.

[ZeusWillJudge]

If you don’t extend and then lose Poeltl and then dont extend and lose DeRozan you really traded Kawhi for Keldon Johnson?


Yeah, but there is such a thing as sunk costs. You can't let past mistakes trap you into making future mistakes. Once you've spent the money and made the trade, all future decisions have to stand on their own.

It happens in business all the time, where bad management will double down rather than admit that a past decision didn't pan out. The good ones bite the bullet and move on.

[Chinook]

If you don’t extend and then lose Poeltl and then dont extend and lose DeRozan you really traded Kawhi for Keldon Johnson?

Huh? They got two years of DMDR and Poeltl plus four years of Johnson for one year of Kawhi. Maybe that's worth it, and maybe it's not, but you don't just get to ignore that players are only on their teams for a fixed amount of time anyway. The Spurs don't keep having to "get something" for Kawhi forever.

[cd021]

Yeah, but there is such a thing as sunk costs. You can't let past mistakes trap you into making future mistakes. Once you've spent the money and made the trade, all future decisions have to stand on their own.

It happens in business all the time, where bad management will double down rather than admit that a past decision didn't pan out. The good ones bite the bullet and move on.

Agreed.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

DPG getting his shit pushed in, per par, tbh

[talkspurs]

That's not the rule. The rule is you can have only one rookie-contract DPE at a time (by signing and an additional one by trading) and two vet DPE contracts. Jakob can't get a five-year deal unless it starts at the max, so no point in even discussing that. But if they give him a new five-year deal next summer, it doesn't count against their DPE total in either category.

The Celtics couldn't trade for Davis last year because of Irving also being a DPE rookie. But they were able to trade for Kawhi since Leonard's contract wasn't an extension.

I dont think you can give him a 5 yr contract unless it is the rookie DPE. Even if it happens after his contract ends it could only be for 4 years not 5.

[Chinook]

I dont think you can give him a 5 yr contract unless it is the rookie DPE. Even if it happens after his contract ends it could only be for 4 years not 5.

Nope. Anyone with Bird rights can get five years. The E is actually short for extension, or it was before this new DPE came recently.

Like Draymond and Crowder to five years.

EDIT: Here is the rule from the CBA FAQ, http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q24

So they have changed the rule since I last looked at it. They laxened the rule on DPE rookies by letting a team sign two rather than just the one they used to have, but they no longer make grant an extra spot for traded DPE contracts. The rest remains true though.

A) Players can only get a five-year extension if it starts at the max: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q58
B) Waiting until the player is a free agent doesn't count as a DPE contract: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q53

Yeah, there's zero point in talking about five-year extensions for Poeltl. I'm of the mind that they should offer him a $26.25M/4 extension now. That would bring his five-year total up to $30 Million. Maybe that's higher than he might make in free agency. But next summer isn't going to be the Max Fest this year was, so teams might be more inclined to spend more on role-players, especially if Jakob puts in another solid year. Plus, the cap is going to keep going up. Unless Poe becomes a much worse player than he is now, his contract should remain pretty moveable.

[DPG21920]

Huh? They got two years of DMDR and Poeltl plus four years of Johnson for one year of Kawhi. Maybe that's worth it, and maybe it's not, but you don't just get to ignore that players are only on their teams for a fixed amount of time anyway. The Spurs don't keep having to "get something" for Kawhi forever.

Sure - but this trade is still live and active in my mind. Again, you may not agree, but if SA knows they don’t want to resign DDR and/or Jakob under any circumstances then the prudent move is to trade them and accumulate as much as they can and then that closes the loop on the Kawhi trade.

Don’t get hung up on the Kawhi part; that is just how trades are viewed and framed in terms of “measuring” the deal. Like with future picks in a deal. A trade isn’t closed until those picks are made then you look back and say “the final return yielded x”.

I know you value having them playing on the team, but that is not the best use of a valuable asset like DDR; letting him walk and saying “well we got 2 years of him so that’s plenty of value” doesn’t seem smart to me and I just can’t agree with that.

[DPG21920]

DPG getting his shit pushed in, per par, tbh


Classic

[DPG21920]

Yeah, but there is such a thing as sunk costs. You can't let past mistakes trap you into making future mistakes. Once you've spent the money and made the trade, all future decisions have to stand on their own.

It happens in business all the time, where bad management will double down rather than admit that a past decision didn't pan out. The good ones bite the bullet and move on.

I don’t understand what people think I’m saying. You think trading DeRozan if you know you don’t want to resign him is part of the sunk cost?

I’m not advocating resigning him when you don’t want him just because you moved Kawhi for him. If I said that i would understand this type of response.

I’m literally advocating the opposite. Like do people read what I post and say “DPG doesn’t understand sunk cost and I can’t believe he wants to keep DeRozan even though he’s not a good fit”.

It’s simple; regardless of Kawhi you don’t let your best assets like DDR just walk for nothing. If you were trying to keep him and he bolts that’s one thing. But they KNOW they don’t want him and if that is the case not moving him is silly and sub optimal.

[spurraider21]

I don’t understand what people think I’m saying. You think trading DeRozan if you know you don’t want to resign him is part of the sunk cost?

I’m not advocating resigning him when you don’t want him just because you moved Kawhi for him. If I said that i would understand this type of response.

I’m literally advocating the opposite.
:lol you seem baffled that seemingly everybody interprets your post in a certain way... maybe you should look back at your posts. you keep bringing up the kawhi deal when discussing how derozan/poodle should be dealt with

that's the source of any "confusion."

when we had this discussion, you just said we'd have to agree to disagree, and thats fine. but thats different from denying that you think the kawhi deal should factor into how we handle those 2

[DPG21920]

:lol you seem baffled that seemingly everybody interprets your post in a certain way... maybe you should look back at your posts. you keep bringing up the kawhi deal when discussing how derozan/poodle should be dealt with

that's the source of any "confusion."

when we had this discussion, you just said we'd have to agree to disagree, and thats fine. but thats different from denying that you think the kawhi deal should factor into how we handle those 2

Well reading comprehension isn’t st strong suit. I have read what I posted multiple times. Whether or not I mentioned Kawhi trade as a taking point I was very clear on explaining the logic after that comment unless you can quote something where I mentioned that BECAUSE they traded Kawhi for DDR that they must keep him.

I even said forget the Kawhi part if that bugs you and focus on the fact SA doesn’t what ddr past this year. The Kawhi trade does matter and again context matters. It matters in context that the trade is still fresh and being evaluated. That’s it.

[spurraider21]

Well reading comprehension isn’t st strong suit. I have read what I posted multiple times. Whether or not I mentioned Kawhi trade as a taking point I was very clear on explaining the logic after that comment unless you can quote something where I mentioned that BECAUSE they traded Kawhi for DDR that they must keep him.

I even said forget the Kawhi part if that bugs you and focus on the fact SA doesn’t what ddr past this year.
see now you're changing your story again. when we discussed this the other day, you mentioned optics and fans as reasons why you have to factor in the kawhi trade, and now you're basically saying nah we dont need to factor the kawhi trade.

its fine if we disagree but you have to pick a lane tbh

[DPG21920]

And like 5 people have said something :lol “literally everyone”

[DPG21920]

see now you're changing your story again. when we discussed this the other day, you mentioned optics and fans as reasons why you have to factor in the kawhi trade, and now you're basically saying nah we dont need to factor the kawhi trade.

its fine if we disagree but you have to pick a lane tbh

What? No. I really don’t understand how you’re struggling with any basic level of context. Optics, fan opinion and all of that matters with how trades are evaluated. This Kawhi trade and the return is still fluid with ddr on the team and what SA is going to do with him

Optics and fans don’t matter however when it comes to thinking you need to keep DDR just because you traded Kawhi for him. That’s where the sunk cost fallacy comes into play.

[Shakril]

What? No. I really don’t understand how you’re struggling with any basic level of context. Optics, fan opinion and all of that matters with how trades are evaluated. This Kawhi trade and the return is still fluid with ddr on the team and what SA is going to do with him

Optics and fans don’t matter however when it comes to thinking you need to keep DDR just because you traded Kawhi for him. That’s where the sunk cost fallacy comes into play.

Dude, let it go, you only make it worse for you.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Damn, just trade DDR, Poe, and KJ for George Hill and call it a wash.

[MultiTroll]

Ppppppssssh

[ragas]

So 5 mio is enough?
Poeltl netrating so far: +5,8
Aldridge: -7,...
Derozan: -7,...
Dejounte: -10,7

[Dhbsr555]

I don’t think the Austin spurs would give poodle an extension

[ragas]

I don’t think the Austin spurs would give poodle an extension

Spurs don‘t have to give him an extension. He‘ll get some good offers.

[TimDunkem]

He sometimes blocks shots and is sometimes even lucky enough to score when he's left wide open. Not worthy of an extension when guys like this are a dime a dozen.

[Shakril]

He sometimes blocks shots and is sometimes even lucky enough to score when he's left wide open. Not worthy of an extension when guys like this are a dime a dozen.

No they are not. Show me a Role Player who is able to lift up the defense as he does. It should be clear for everybody now, that he is the most important defender on this Team.
Also he is one of the best Screensetters, at blocking and altering shots, efficent in scoring when he gets the chance and on of the best on the offensiv glass. And he still has room to grow.
Yes he is not an Allstar, but if the Spurs dont pay him, someone else will. You need that kind of guys to win something.

[jermaine]

Pay this man before he ends up somewhere else.

[John B]

Yup. He is a serviceable big with a lot of upsides. Still very young, great defense. Need tonwork on hitting 9 footers and hook shots.

[ragas]

https://twitter.com/assassinatehate/status/1200719667758796800?s=21

Jakob Poeltl led the Spurs in screen assists and points off screen assists against the Clippers and he only played 15mins. This guy was the 9th overall pick in 2016 and has the 3rd highest VORP from that draft behind Simmons and Siakam. 2nd highest BPM, and 6th most win shares.

[Truth4sale$]

What is the value of a backup/sometimes center. He hustles,competes, limited scorer, but still young. Maybe a Entes Kanter type contract, 2 years, 9.5 million.?

[JeffDuncan]

After he has 20 more good games we can talk.

[FkLA]

He sometimes blocks shots and is sometimes even lucky enough to score when he's left wide open. Not worthy of an extension when guys like this are a dime a dozen.

He's an elite rim protector and low post defender. He doesn't just block some shots he alters a bunch and covers for the poor perimeter defenders we have all the time.

Sign him up. Pretty sure he can locked up on a relatively cheap contract.

[Truth4sale$]

But what is his price? Are the spurs simply going to let the market dictate and then lose out on him? That seems to be what happened to Jonathan Simmons and Kyle Anderson, and will likely be Bryn Forbes...wait he will be resigned for 4yrs/40 million.

[tim_duncan_fan]

If he decides to be a rim protector like last night every night, sure.

[exstatic]

But what is his price? Are the spurs simply going to let the market dictate and then lose out on him? That seems to be what happened to Jonathan Simmons and Kyle Anderson, and will likely be Bryn Forbes...wait he will be resigned for 4yrs/40 million.

The market for big men is far softer these days than the market for wing players. Also, hindsight shows that the Spurs were right to let both of those players walk. Simmons is already out of the league.

[jeebus]

He's an elite rim protector and low post defender. He doesn't just block some shots he alters a bunch and covers for the poor perimeter defenders we have all the time.

Sign him up. Pretty sure he can locked up on a relatively cheap contract.
Agreed. Don't wanna lose a decent backup like we did with Baynes and Boban. Fuck, I'd kill for Baynes right now as he's doing great in Phoenix. Can't believe some fucks around here preferred Errors over him.

[Prime BEEF]

Who’s better...Jakob or Christian Wood for the pistons?

[slick'81]

Poodle will be lucky to get 4/5 mill at this rate

[JeffDuncan]

Purrcat should look hard in the direction of China.

[TimDunkem]

Lol Elite rim protector....I'd rather have Christian Wood.

[slick'81]

Thank god spurs pryed this stud away from tor for kawhi

[Kurgan]

He was considered a bust back when he was in Toronto. No idea why PATFO thought this loser would be an enticing building block.

[TheCerebral1]

Honestly at this point the only players that should be on the season next year are Murray, White, Samonic and Johnson. Perhaps tossing in Lyles, however otherwise; burn it down!

[RD2191]

He's an elite rim protector and low post defender. He doesn't just block some shots he alters a bunch and covers for the poor perimeter defenders we have all the time.

Sign him up. Pretty sure he can locked up on a relatively cheap contract.

:lol

[TimDunkem]

:lmao Yukob

[ragas]

Look at the stats, before you write shit. Poeltl played the most minutes and nevertheless had the best (of bad) netrating of the Spurs. So this was on him? Get outta here, you losers.

poeltl -15
murray -32
white -38
Lyles -47
walker -57
eubanks -61

you really blame Poeltl?
btw: Drummond (and Griffin) had the worst netrating of the Pistons.

[TDMVPDPOY]

pau got one for cucking the spurs once in FA, and only 1yr service with the spurms, why not for poodle?

[ragas]

Drummond‘s average stats this season: 17/17
Today: 9/16

Drummond and Griffin had combined 19 points.

[JeffDuncan]

Poeltl is a tall sack of trash. Any player his size will outscore him, and outrebound him.

[timvp]

Update: I think Poeltl's value is actually going down. A big who is weak on the defensive boards, can't shoot and can't really defend out on the perimeter? How do you pay someone like that more than $3 million per year in today's NBA? If you have a non-shooting big, at the very least he has to be a beast on the defensive glass to warrant paying him.

[DPG21920]

Rather have kept Danny Green than gotten Jakob. Guy has regressed instead of developed

[ragas]

Good luck finding someone who outrebounds Drummond and makes up for the guards brain farts. These eye-test grades suck. Poeltl should be happy to leave this shitshow after this season.

[ragas]

Update: I think Poeltl's value is actually going down. A big who is weak on the defensive boards, can't shoot and can't really defend out on the perimeter? How do you pay someone like that more than $3 million per year in today's NBA? If you have a non-shooting big, at the very least he has to be a beast on the defensive glass to warrant paying him.

Omg, all these self pronounced experts are so hillarious.

but you‘re right. They don‘t have to pay the guy with the best netrating. Someone else will.

[ragas]

Poeltl is a tall sack of trash. Any player his size will outscore him, and outrebound him.

Drummond‘s average stats this season: 17/17
Today: 9/16

Drummond and Griffin had combined 19 points.

[UZER]

Pop loves his whitey bigs whether they’re good or not.

[JeffDuncan]

Drummond‘s average stats this season: 17/17
Today: 9/16

Drummond and Griffin had combined 19 points.

I'm looking, and looking, and I have to say, it appears you left something out. How many points did the tall trash bag score? And how many rebounds did he get?

[J_Paco]

Good luck finding someone who outrebounds Drummond and makes up for the guards brain farts. These eye-test grades suck. Poeltl should be happy to leave this shitshow after this season.

I would agree if, if Jakob showed some improvement on offense or continued his improved defensive rebounding from last year.

Other than his little stand still floaters and tricky, Spliiter - esque inside finishes, Poeltl has shown no progression by adding anything on offense. No back to the basket moves (or a hook shot), a mid - range or three-pount shot to make himself more versatile or a bigger threat. I like him but thought he'd have shown something that warrants more optimism like you have.

[ragas]

I would agree if, if Jakob showed some improvement on offense or continued his improved defensive rebounding from last year.

Other than his little stand still floaters and tricky, Spliiter - esque inside finishes, Poeltl has shown no progression by adding anything on offense. No back to the basket moves (or a hook shot), a mid - range or three-pount shot to make himself more versatile or a bigger threat. I like him but thought he'd have shown something that warrants more optimism like you have.

Good post. I agree with many points. He has to improve on the offense. I think he has to set priorities in the next summer. He always tried to get little bit better in many parts of the game. He should pick one or two parts that serve him best. Bulking up without losing speed and his low post game would be my number 1. Working on free throws (- and the three pointer after that)

[J_Paco]

Good post. I agree with many points. He has to improve on the offense. I think he has to set priorities in the next summer. He always tried to get little bit better in many parts of the game. He should pick one or two that serves him best. Bulking up without losing speed would be my number 1. Working on free throws and the three pointer.

When will we actually see what he works on in the summer translate to NBA games? He supposedly worked on adding a perimeter shot or being more confident in attempting them, yet here we are with him living strictly in the paint (while not being able to play above the rim).

[ragas]

I'm looking, and looking, and I have to say, it appears you left something out. How many points did the tall trash bag score? And how many rebounds did he get?

I‘m looking as looking and I‘m seeing nobody other than Embid who did better against Drummonf so far. And Embid had Simmons and Horford beside him.

[timvp]

I mean, Poeltl is still an above average backup center. It's just that you can get an average backup center for around a minimum contract ... so how much can you pay Poeltl? A decade ago, Poeltl is making $50 million. Today, you just can't pay him that much given the market.

Hell, look at the Pistons game. Christian Wood is a minimum player on his fourth team and he just put up 28 and 10 in 22 minutes on the Spurs. A decade ago, there's no way a big with his skill would slip through the cracks. In the league these days, if you're not an elite big man, you just aren't that valuable.

[ragas]

When will we actually see what he works on in the summer translate to NBA games? He supposedly worked on adding a perimeter shot or being more confident in attempting them, yet here we are with him living strictly in the paint (while not being able to play above the rim).

that‘s what I said. He has to concentrate on 1-2 things instead of trying to do too much on everything.

[ragas]

I mean, Poeltl is still an above average backup center. It's just that you can get an average backup center for around a minimum contract ... so how much can you pay Poeltl? A decade ago, Poeltl is making $50 million. Today, you just can't pay him that much given the market.

Hell, look at the Pistons game. Christian Wood is a minimum player on his fourth team and he just put up 28 and 10 in 22 minutes on the Spurs. A decade ago, there's no way a big with his skill would slip through the cracks. In the league these days, if you're not an elite big man, you just aren't that valuable.

And I think he has more in him that he‘s been able to show on offense so far. He doesn‘t get the chance to show more and needs better passing guards. But he has to improve, too. No doubt! Poeltl I s still only 24 and needs a better development plan.

btw: you‘re still ignoring the fact that he has the best netrating.

[ragas]

Pop loves his whitey bigs whether they’re good or not.

Poeltl‘s biggest flaw is that he‘s a team player. If he would play more for himself like most of the other guys, it would be better for his new contract - although being less valuable for the team.

[r0drig0lac]

any other team: 13/3
spurs culture contract: 24/3

[weeks]

any other team: 13/3
spurs culture contract: 24/3

daily reminder that we're still paying pau gasol
good culture aint cheap boys

[Texas_Ranger]

the best thing for the spurs would be to get rid of every single one of this losers on the team, so no.

[GreekSpursfan]

Its too soon to say but the early signs are not positive.

[TimDunkem]

He sometimes blocks shots and is sometimes even lucky enough to score when he's left wide open. Not worthy of an extension when guys like this are a dime a dozen.

[ragas]

He sometimes blocks shots and is sometimes even lucky enough to score when he's left wide open. Not worthy of an extension when guys like this are a dime a dozen.

[TimDunkem]

Plenty of other bigs in the league are capable of doing the same thing he did last night. Capela still killed him (and was playing sick), btw.

[FkLA]

You have to be a miserable fuck to argue so passionately against a guy on your own team, who plays so hard and actually has a positive impact (we're not talking Wombat or Belli here).

[TimDunkem]

I've already said that I don't mind him at a low number, but the Spurs don't give out those contracts anymore.

[RC_Drunkford]

Poeltl is good, he just needs to work on his offense. Great rim protector and roll man