The NBA Supermax Contract Isn't Doing What it Was Supposed to Do

[wildbill2u]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/7/17/20696975/nba-supermax-chris-paul-russell-westbrook

Seems like a pretty good analysis of the status of contractual problems in the NBA right now. Talks briefly about the Kwahi problem and small team markets. Even a super max offer may not be enough if a player wants to change teams---partly because the biggest money is in shoe contracts. Ironically Chris Paul negotiated the contract with the NBA and now is never going to have the chance to play for a championship because he has too big a contract unless OKC can unload him.

[Mr. Body]

It was supposed to get Chris Paul and maybe a few others tons of money. It worked just fine.

[lmbebo]

Maybe add non garunteed money to end of it? Make a certain contract amount untradeable for 2? years. Whatever it is, I think there will be a lock out at next CBA.

[sasaint]

A simple hard cap.

[ZeusWillJudge]

It's doing exactly what it was supposed to do. The league loves it. Small market fans hate it. They're fine with that.

[baseline bum]

Maybe add non garunteed money to end of it? Make a certain contract amount untradeable for 2? years. Whatever it is, I think there will be a lock out at next CBA.

I still think the owners are going to push hard for non-guaranteed contracts, and for once I'll be on their side this time around. If Kawhi Leonard, Anthony Davis, and Paul George refuse to abide by their contracts why the hell should owners be stuck paying John Wall's and Chris Paul's contracts?

[cd98]

I don't think the league loves it. I think it sees the problems that it created and the problems that it did not fix. I don't even know if the players love it because the superstars aren't accepting the supermax and the guys making the 3rd team all NBA aren't getting it, they are getting traded instead.

It's not working, but it's hard to take away the money that you have committed. I think the players association will fight hand over foot to keep it.

[cd98]

I still think the owners are going to push hard for non-guaranteed contracts, and for once I'll be on their side this time around. If Kawhi Leonard, Anthony Davis, and Paul George refuse to abide by their contracts why the hell should owners be stuck paying John Wall's and Chris Paul's contracts?

No way will the players give up guaranteed contracts. NBA players have more power than NFL players because the NBA has more stars given the smaller roster sizes and the recognition of the best players. The NFL has a lot of unknown stars and the rosters are so big and players are so replaceable (except quarterbacks to some extent) that they do not have the power to negotiate guaranteed deals, though they have made some progress in that effort.

[baseline bum]

No way will the players give up guaranteed contracts. NBA players have more power than NFL players because the NBA has more stars given the smaller roster sizes and the recognition of the best players. The NFL has a lot of unknown stars and the rosters are so big and players are so replaceable (except quarterbacks to some extent) that they do not have the power to negotiate guaranteed deals, though they have made some progress in that effort.

I expect the 2023-24 season to be lost over it.

[Mr. Body]

Who the hell thought giving a single player 35% of the cap was a good idea?

[Dex]

Who the hell thought giving a single player 35% of the cap was a good idea?

Chris Paul.

[baseline bum]

Who the hell thought giving a single player 35% of the cap was a good idea?

Jordan used to get 125% of the cap. Ewing 75%. 35% of the cap is way below a true star player's market value.

[Russ]

I'll ask it again in case anybody knows (or claims to know):

Did the Spurs ever offer Kawhi the Supermax (or tell Kawhi they'd offer him the Supermax if he'd take it)?

[DAF86]

Like some poster said on the NBA forum, they should allow teams to offer money, to star players (who are already playing for your team), that doesn't count against the cap.

You offer something like 80 millions per year but on the cap it only counts for 40 millions like max contracts do now.

And you can only offer these type of contracts to players you have drafted. If a player gets a contract like this and then demands a trade, he goes from making 80 millions per year to 40 the moment he gets traded.

That should help small market teams retain their stars and would prevent this whole trade demands frenzy to slow down.

[Seventyniner]

I still think the owners are going to push hard for non-guaranteed contracts, and for once I'll be on their side this time around. If Kawhi Leonard, Anthony Davis, and Paul George refuse to abide by their contracts why the hell should owners be stuck paying John Wall's and Chris Paul's contracts?

I agree that the owners will really want this, and naturally the players will push back just as hard if not harder. I also agree with your opinion that the 2023-2024 season will likely be lost over this.

I expect the compromise to be another year shaved off a deal's max length: 4 years with current team or 3 years with another. Maybe 3 and 2 if the owners get really stubborn; once it gets to 2 and 1 then the owners have basically won.

I also wonder how much the owners will push for an extra year to be added on to rookie contracts, giving a team more cost control over a player they drafted and developed.

[Millennial_Messiah]

A simple hard cap.

Agree. This should happen. The cap and contracts should be just like the NFL.


Sacramento should trade for CP3. They have a ton of money and need to rejuvenate that franchise big time. They barely averted relocation but they haven't sniffed a playoff berth since the Bibby, Peja, Vlade era. I think Artest was on their last playoff team, too, just for part of a year IIRC. (Artest, Coach Adelman and Bonzi Wells then went to the Rockets.)

[Millennial_Messiah]

I agree that the owners will really want this, and naturally the players will push back just as hard if not harder. I also agree with your opinion that the 2023-2024 season will likely be lost over this.

I expect the compromise to be another year shaved off a deal's max length: 4 years with current team or 3 years with another. Maybe 3 and 2 if the owners get really stubborn; once it gets to 2 and 1 then the owners have basically won.

I also wonder how much the owners will push for an extra year to be added on to rookie contracts, giving a team more cost control over a player they drafted and developed.

I think the US federal government should take a hand and put an iron fist out against the players, who have become greedy and unreasonable. The owners are right and I've always been on the owners' side tbh. Without them the players would be playing pickup games at LA Fitness.

[Russ]

Like some poster said on the NBA forum, they should allow teams to offer money, to star players (who are already playing for your team), that doesn't count against the cap.

You offer something like 80 millions per year but on the cap it only counts for 40 millions like max contracts do now.

And you can only offer these type of contracts to players you have drafted. If a player gets a contract like this and then demands a trade, he goes from making 80 millions per year to 40 the moment he gets traded.

That should help small market teams retain their stars and would prevent this whole trade demands frenzy to slow down.

I thought one of the problems small market teams had was they don't have as much money coming in (available to spend) as bigger market teams.

I'm not sure allowing a team to double the salary of a player will help small market teams (if I understand the proposal correctly).

[baseline bum]

I agree that the owners will really want this, and naturally the players will push back just as hard if not harder. I also agree with your opinion that the 2023-2024 season will likely be lost over this.

I expect the compromise to be another year shaved off a deal's max length: 4 years with current team or 3 years with another. Maybe 3 and 2 if the owners get really stubborn; once it gets to 2 and 1 then the owners have basically won.

I also wonder how much the owners will push for an extra year to be added on to rookie contracts, giving a team more cost control over a player they drafted and developed.

I think it's going to be even nastier than 99. Owners have to feel like suckers when stars can have both perpetual free agency and the security of long term money. As bad as Kawhi and AD were, the Paul George trade demand was supremely perverse with three years remaining. How pissed must OKC be paying repeaters luxury tax on a full rebuild?

[ducks]

Thinking deals for max players must be 3 years or more
Give owners more control

[Russ]

Sacramento should trade for CP3. They have a ton of money and need to rejuvenate that franchise big time.

I never thought I'd see CP3 and rejuvenate within ten words of each other.

[Dex]

Thinking deals for max players must be 3 years or more
Give owners more control

Still doesn't stop them from demanding a trade one year in.

[Mugen]

Guaranteed contracts will never, ever go away tbh.

The players, led by the stars, will quickly cry "modern day slavery" if it's taken from them ....which is of course ridiculous but with the way current social thinking is trending, they'll get enough sympathy to put heat on the rich, old white owners to back down pretty quickly from playing that card.

Agreed though, guys reneging on their contracts with several years remaining is a huge problem that needs to be addressed.

[lmbebo]

Guaranteed contracts will never, ever go away tbh.

The players, led by the stars, will quickly cry "modern day slavery" if it's taken from them ....which is of course ridiculous but with the way current social thinking is trending, they'll get enough sympathy to put heat on the rich, old white owners to back down pretty quickly from playing that card.

Agreed though, guys reneging on their contracts with several years remaining is a huge problem that needs to be addressed.

Unfortunately its true. Never mind they are playing a game for millions and millions of dollars with generational wealth. Yet its still about "slavery" because they can't get it all...... cry me a fucking river. No parallels.

But league has renamed team owners as "governors" to step away from this "master-slave dynamic".

How about employer and employee?

Power has shifted too much to the players and I blame Lebron.

League needs a reboot.

[DAF86]

I thought one of the problems small market teams had was they don't have as much money coming in (available to spend) as bigger market teams.

I'm not sure allowing a team to double the salary of a player will help small market teams (if I understand the proposal correctly).

It would help since, legally, they would be the only team allowed to offer this kind of contract to the players they draft. They would have no competition if they would be willing to offer such contracts.

[Seventyniner]

I think it's going to be even nastier than 99. Owners have to feel like suckers when stars can have both perpetual free agency and the security of long term money. As bad as Kawhi and AD were, the Paul George trade demand was supremely perverse with three years remaining. How pissed must OKC be paying repeaters luxury tax on a full rebuild?

I wish I could disagree with you. It's very hard to see the owners and players coming to an agreement ahead of time over such a contentious issue.

[exstatic]

No way will the players give up guaranteed contracts. NBA players have more power than NFL players because the NBA has more stars given the smaller roster sizes and the recognition of the best players. The NFL has a lot of unknown stars and the rosters are so big and players are so replaceable (except quarterbacks to some extent) that they do not have the power to negotiate guaranteed deals, though they have made some progress in that effort.

The NBAPA is comprised of roughly 450 players. 15 of them are ALL NBA. A few more than that are All stars. The rest want to be able to pay their bills, and usually have some non-guaranteed money on their deals anyway.

[sasaint]

The NBAPA is comprised of roughly 450 players. 15 of them are ALL NBA. A few more than that are All stars. The rest want to be able to pay their bills, and usually have some non-guaranteed money on their deals anyway.

Yet the “rank and file” of the NBAPA only stood to be potentially hurt by the provisions of the last agreement.

[Mr. Body]

If the players elect self-serving assholes like Derek Fisher and Chris Paul, this next round will go badly.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

Player empowerment means that now the fans are getting screwed by the owners and the players… Great.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

If the players elect self-serving assholes like Derek Fisher and Chris Paul, this next round will go badly.

It sounds like Vice President Matt Bonner didn’t have much say in the matter. Ha.

[cd021]

I still think the owners are going to push hard for non-guaranteed contracts, and for once I'll be on their side this time around. If Kawhi Leonard, Anthony Davis, and Paul George refuse to abide by their contracts why the hell should owners be stuck paying John Wall's and Chris Paul's contracts?
That's a recipe for another lockout.

[lmbebo]

Player empowerment means that now the fans are getting screwed by the owners and the players… Great.

And we the idiots that keep spending our money and attention on them ...

[Harry Callahan]

Unfortunately its true. Never mind they are playing a game for millions and millions of dollars with generational wealth. Yet its still about "slavery" because they can't get it all...... cry me a fucking river. No parallels.

But league has renamed team owners as "governors" to step away from this "master-slave dynamic".

How about employer and employee?

Power has shifted too much to the players and I blame Lebron.

League needs a reboot.

I like my T-Shirt that states I am "Property of the San Antonio Spurs". I ought to wear it to a start of the season press conference next year and have Pop yell at me for being behind the times.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I don't think the league loves it. I think it sees the problems that it created and the problems that it did not fix.


I don't know how you define "the league", but Dick-With-Ears Silver recently talked about how it's creating a lot of excitement, and bringing a lot of offseason attention to the league. If that bastard thinks it translates into revenues, he likes it. If he can convince enough team owners that it will translate into greater overall revenues for them, and higher team values, "the league" loves it too.

The networks love superstars and superteams, because that drives revenues, and the shoe companies love them for the same reason. They don't give a shit if they leave small markets for big markets - in fact, they like it better. The lower-level players are still getting more money than they used to, so they aren't going to bitch even if the super-max will never have anything to do with them. A lot of fans in a lot of cities like these supermax players being able to play musical chairs, because they can crow like cocks on a dungheap when it's their team who buys the super-max guys.

It's mostly fans of small market teams who hate it, and "the league" doesn't give a shit because small markets don't drive revenues, and fans will keep watching anyway.
That's just the way it works, and the way it's going to work.

[exstatic]

I don't know how you define "the league", but Dick-With-Ears Silver recently talked about how it's creating a lot of excitement, and bringing a lot of offseason attention to the league. If that bastard thinks it translates into revenues, he likes it. If he can convince enough team owners that it will translate into greater overall revenues for them, and higher team values, "the league" loves it too.

The networks love superstars and superteams, because that drives revenues, and the shoe companies love them for the same reason. They don't give a shit if they leave small markets for big markets - in fact, they like it better. The lower-level players are still getting more money than they used to, so they aren't going to bitch even if the super-max will never have anything to do with them. A lot of fans in a lot of cities like these supermax players being able to play musical chairs, because they can crow like cocks on a dungheap when it's their team who buys the super-max guys.

It's mostly fans of small market teams who hate it, and "the league" doesn't give a shit because small markets don't drive revenues, and fans will keep watching anyway.
That's just the way it works, and the way it's going to work.

It's not just the fans of the small markets that hate it. The owners of the small markets hate it, too, and there are more of them. It's not large markets, per se, that benefit from it. Chicago is a VERY large market, and can't make any more inroads on top FAs than San Antonio. I would categorize it as 2NY teams/2 LA teams, plus a couple of opportunists in Miami and GS, who happened to have HUGE amounts of cap room at the right time. I'd say the rest of the owners are fed up with it. They don't answer to Silver, he answers to them, and if enough of them want a lockout, they'll get it.

[sasaint]

That's a recipe for another lockout.

No problem. The product is verging on impossible to watch anyway. Besides if LeBron and Number 2 both lose a year of their careers, all the better.

[exstatic]

No problem. The product is verging on impossible to watch anyway. Besides if LeBron and Number 2 both lose a year of their careers, all the better.

And if CP3 loses a year of that stupid salary, that's just the cherry on top. :)

[sasaint]

And if CP3 loses a year of that stupid salary, that's just the cherry on top. :)

Perfect! :tu

[ZeusWillJudge]

It's not just the fans of the small markets that hate it. The owners of the small markets hate it, too, and there are more of them. It's not large markets, per se, that benefit from it. Chicago is a VERY large market, and can't make any more inroads on top FAs than San Antonio. I would categorize it as 2NY teams/2 LA teams, plus a couple of opportunists in Miami and GS, who happened to have HUGE amounts of cap room at the right time. I'd say the rest of the owners are fed up with it. They don't answer to Silver, he answers to them, and if enough of them want a lockout, they'll get it.


I understand what you're thinking. But the revenue sharing scheme is there to try and make sure that small market teams still come out in the black at the end of the season. Some of them used to cheap out on team salary, but the league put in a minimum salary by assuring them that they would get it back and not lose money. But the big thing is that team valuations keep going up. Tell a guy that Forbes is going to be reporting his net worth as plus another $100M, and he'll go along with having super-max players migrate, and settle for his team just getting into the playoffs.

I think small market owners don't like it. But I'm also pretty sure that enough of them go along because there's better money in it for them. It's a spectacle - a very, very profitable spectacle. And they've figured out that they make more money this way than they ever thought about by running it as a sport. They may make some token, cosmetic changes. But they aren't going to take any kind of drastic action as long as the revenue curve is pointing upward. Maybe the Spurs and a few others object, but there aren't enough of them to swing the big picture changes.
Put your idealism aside, and take a critical look at what you see, and you'll know it's true.

[BillMc]

No problem. The product is verging on impossible to watch anyway. Besides if LeBron and Number 2 both lose a year of their careers, all the better.


And if CP3 loses a year of that stupid salary, that's just the cherry on top. :)

Amen brothers

[timtonymanu]

I wouldn’t mind a lockout. That’s how little I give a shit about this league, commissioner and its players.

[picnroll]

Contracts where the total salary amount doesn’t fully vest until the player has fulfilled the terms of his contract, like stock options. Player doesn’t fulfill his contract he loses a sizable amount of the total value of the contract.