What's a reasonable contract for Jack?

[picnroll]

No doubt if Jack walks their will be some (Ghost) who will B&M. What is a reasonable offer to Jack that if another team tops and Jack choses to take over the Spurs, the Spurs should let him walk?

I say genghis proposal of three years, last year player option would be perfect. Max $12 million. That should keep Jack's head on straight and him working hard and limit damage to the Spurs if he doesn't. If he blows up he could opt out at age 27 and get his big, big, long-term payday.

At what point, if the contract goes above that level, would you say "thanks for the memories Jack".

Ghost weigh in now or forever hold your bitching.

[CosmicCowboyXXX]

Stephen Jackson should take a good look at the contracts that Ira Newble and Kevin Ollie justr signed with Cleveland...

they basically split the MLE on 4 year deals...

despite out homer perception of SJax's talent that is about the class of player that he is...

[Jimcs50]

CC, you are daft if you put Jax in that category. He is a starter on a championhip team, he has won games for us in reg season and in two important games in playoffs(Dallas and NJ) He is our best clutch scorer when the game is on the line(besides Tim)He has icewater in his veins and is our best dribble penetrator, and will get better in his passing when he has time to work with the starters in camp.Also he is a top FT shooter(rare commodity on this team)

[kohai]

If he wants more than $3M as a starting salary, Hasta la Vista, baby. That works out to 3 years, ~$10.2M

[picnroll]

Numbers? Amount and length? Let's see where people are relative to the final outcome. Rationalization is fine too, but give the numbers.

[Solid D]

Unless there is a trade picnroll, the Spurs can really only offer the $4.9M Early Bird Exception - which is for players with the same team for at least the 2 prior years. It's calculated at 175% of the previous year's salary or the Average Player Salary (around $4.9M next year), whichever is greater.

The Spurs still hold those rights for Jack and it can be used as a Salary Cap Exception.

[CosmicCowboyXXX]

If he wants more than $3M as a starting salary, Hasta la Vista, baby. That works out to 3 years, ~$10.2M

exactly what I was saying...Newble just signed a 4 yr 12 million deal...that is about where Jax is gonna end up...no way anyone gives him long term MLE kind of money...he is still just too inconsistent...

[picnroll]

Solid D I was referring to $12 over the length of the contract not per year. $11-12 is acceptable to me. I like the prospects ultimately, when Mercer and Bowen are gone, of a three man rotation at the 2/3 of Manu, Jax, and Hedo and would overpay a bit to keep him around. I think his defense is getting really solid, particularly when he's totally focused.

[SAmikeyp]

3yrs 12mil.

[KoriEllis]

up to 3 year/$13M would be okay with me ...

If he wants a 6-year contract (which has been reported but sketchy), would anyone here give him 4-years?

[ducks]

I would not

rumors are they want him as a backup

backups should only get 3 year deals. He is not going to see as many minutes this year. if hedo or mercer pans out you might trade jack done the road for someone. you strap him with a 4 year deal it will be harder to move. bowen would be the one people would want(because of his contract)

spurs have all the cards. and now houston only has a little money. if he wants years let him go to utah or denver.

[ducks]

He is a starter on a championhip team,

rumors are caoches think he is a backup now though

[Marcus Bryant]

3 years $14 mil. If necessary offer 4 years $20 mil.

Yes he'll be a backup but I forsee Bowen's minutes declining over the next couple of years and also it is not set in stone that Manu and Hedo will be returning next summer.

[Shaq H8ter]

Unless Mercer just starts killing people from the 3 line real quick.
He will be sucking on the hind teet, behind Jax and Bowen.

If we get Jax....

[scott]

I don't see any teams pounding on his door with any offers- it seems that his agent has grossly overestimated Jack's market value.

3 year 12-13 mil.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs will have to make a good offer. If they don't, Denver can easily outbid them.

[ducks]

so you overpay him so he does not go to denver? to cold country?
not a contender?

he said he would play for less and can only play for pop.

if he migh to wolves, lakers or kings I might overpay a little. but not denver

he is not worth having at a bad contract period

spurs do not have a bad contract and they do not need on with jack.

[picnroll]

So ducks what would you pay him? I doubt he'll sign for vet minimum for seven years with last six team option.

Ghost are you going to give us a number or just reserve the right to bitch eternally no matter what?

[Marcus Bryant]

ducks where did I say to overpay him? I said that you cannot get him for cheap. You guys act like he just has to take a shit contract now. F that. You have to make him a decent offer.

[ducks]

start his deal at 4 million for three years.
maybe a player option after 2 years

if he proves he can improve he can opt out and get a long deal.....



spurs need t have flexiablity they need to be able to make trades.

right now the spurs 2 tradeable contracts. spurs need to have all options open. that is why at this stage in sj's career I think a long deal would be BAD.

[scott]

3 years, $13 million is not a shit contract.

Denver could easily outbid us for Jack now. But guess what- they aren't. We shouldn't base our contract decisions based on what a team with an abundance of salary cap space and no one to pay might be willing to give him.

[Marcus Bryant]

Don't be surprised if they do, scott. If the Spurs want him back they have to make a fair offer or he will seek out that team with the cap room. You can't ignore the presence of Denver in the market.

[scott]

If the team with the cap room wanted him so bad, they'd make him an offer.

If Jack is so upset with the kind of contract that players like him typically get that he is willing to go to Denver for slightly more (which is what Denver would offer- a marginally better deal that SA's- not the utopian 6 year 38 mil), then he should just go. Apparently he wasn't serious when he said he wanted to play for the Spurs.

[ducks]

has anyone heard he is actaully intersted in denver or utah?(two teams with most cap space)

or is this just specualtion?



You can not ignore denver. and he could use denver for his advantage like kidd used the spurs. but to me if Sj tries to use Denver to help him get paid I am not sure pop will just let him walk.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well maybe things will begin to get serious with Jack and Denver. According to reports I've seen talks are progressing. If the Spurs aren't a little flexible then Denver can easily steal him. No, Denver won't offer him 6 years/$40 mil or whatever but they can still make a strong offer for him.

[CosmicCowboyXXX]

and SJax would automatically be backing up Carmelo @ Denver...

they might pay up big time for a one year deal just to fill the roster but they aren't gonna overpay SJax on a long term deal..

[picnroll]

Kiki is being pretty cautious with his money. He didn't match Utah when they jacked up the price on Miller or Maggette. I don't know that he's inclined to roll the dice on Jackson just because he's got coin to spend. After all everybody can see the poster children of salary cap indescretion Indianna and New York and what happens when you begin overpaying for one year wonders.

[ducks]

good he might get a gut chack of reality....


I hope he resigns with the spurs. I just do not want to overpay. I think the spurs are being flexable.

talks have bad bad since day one but they have not given up

[o0drpill0o]

I think Jackson deserves a contract similar to what Bowen got. I think the numbers being thrown around here are very realistic; I hope Stephen feels the same way.

Question, though: My understanding is that Pop and Rc have worked things out in this Turkoglu-Mercer deal so that they will have around 9 mil of cap space available next summer when it is time to resign Manu and Turk. How will resigning Jackson affect those plans? Turk will count a few million against the cap before we sign him using bird rights, correct? And Manu I think will see a contract in the 7-8 million range? My numbers and/or understanding of cap issues may be way off; I'm hoping someone can clarify this stuff for me...

[Marcus Bryant]

Mercer-Horry will remove about $11.75 mil. Hedo will count at $2.8 mil because of his qualifying offer. So basically the net effect of losing Mercer & Horry and then extending the qual offer is $11 million. The Spurs will have Turkoglu's full Bird Rights so then they could use whatever cap room they have to re-sign Manu, re-up Horry at a lower rate if they want to keep him, sign other free agents, and then after they do that they can sign Turkoglu.

The Spurs won't have that full $11 mil as cap room due to increases in the salaries of players under contract (the cap probably won't increase enough to offset that).

The real question is if the Spurs did keep SJackson. They will have to find a balance between retaining him and not hurting themselves with respect to retaining Manu.

[ducks]

heard rumors that he said he will not be back in TEXAS.:shock

[Marcus Bryant]

Well that sucks but isn't a surprise. I guess his agent found a sucker. If not then man, you can thank your agent for you not coming back, Jack.

[o0drpill0o]

Thanks for giving me the lowdown, MB.

It is starting to look to me like Jax is just going to be the odd man out. If signing him to a three million dollar contract for more than one year is going to compromise the Spurs' ability to resign Manu, I don't think he's going to be back. With Mercer on the team to play spot minutes at the backup two, Jax is pretty obviously expendable. I think that as much as Pop loves Stephen, he is ready to let him go now that Hedo is here as the Spurs' franchise three. That's really too bad for both parties, but unless Jax is willing to sign a short term deal with maybe a player option for smaller money than he is currently demanding, I don't see him coming back.

I think Pop is probably glad that Fegan is making such unreasonable demands, as it makes it all the more easy to justify letting Jax go (a la Derek Anderson, although the comparison doesn't really do Jax much justice). I think Jax really means it when he says he wants to be here, bt who can blame him if he can get a much bigger payday elsewhere? In any event, I suspect he will be a Spur again one day, maybe when he is a little older and a little wiser...

[Marcus Bryant]

DA made it so easy for himself to be run out of town. As for Jack, man...it's hard to see the Spurs turn down a deal like the one they just pulled even if talks were going great with Jack. Denver can pretty much guarantee Jack a starting job and that he would be paid like he had one.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

3 years, 12 million.

But it looks like he's gonna walk, and the Spurs M.O. will be to never sign or trade for another Dan Faggotan client again.

I feel bad for him, because all that "I love Pop, Dave made me a man, I'll take whatever they offer me" stuff has been trumped by a money-hungry commission-based agent. **** that, and Fegan, and (this hurts to say) Jax for letting this schmuck take over his life and run him out of SA.

AHF

[CosmicCowboyXXX]

Denver can pretty much guarantee Jack a starting job and that he would be paid like he had one.

uhhhhh Matt...

Denver has a young guy named Carmelo Anthony that should pretty well have that job sewed up...

[Marcus Bryant]

Well yeah, that's because Melo is a 3.

[CosmicCowboyXXX]

Jack is more of a 3 than a 2 also...

[Spurminator]

Jack would start at 2, unless they'd rather start Ryan Bowen, Sani Becirovic, Predrag Savovic, Jeff Trepagnier, or Vincent Yarbrough.

[Marcus Bryant]

What did Jack play in SA?

[CosmicCowboyXXX]

2 / 3

[Solid D]

3 years and 12-14 meg, I suppose.

Starting 2 guard for most of the season for the NBA Champions stinks out loud, doesn't it? You know what? Jack deserved it, too!

I don't think Jack is being greedy...he's been from here to Antarctica and back dodging coins and batteries so I don't think he forgets where he came from. I think his agent is trying to get over and it has strained a very nice relationship.

[KoriEllis]

Well even if the Spurs offer and the agent's demands are a world apart, I hope they can figure out a way to meet in the middle.

I really like Jack a lot and wish he would stay a Spur.

[Melmart1]

on foxsports.net, there is a tiny little blurb about the hawks being interested in him, though there were no figures... the gm says he can still sign players, even though the sale of the team is pending... i dont keep up with atlanta, and dont know what kind of figures they can throw his way... so maybe there is more interest than previously thought...
at least we know for sure he wont be going to jersey after byron scott's comments... ouch!

mel.

[Spursman]

From Pop:
"It would be very difficult to bring Jack back into the mix now," Popovich said. "We had conversations (with Jackson). I told him we wanted him back and he said he wanted to be back. But apparently he got some different advice somewhere else.

"But we made it very clear to him and his agent (Dan Fegan) that we would go in another direction if we couldn't get some negotiations started.

"We couldn't let this go to September or October and be held hostage then if there were no other opportunities out there. Overpaying a player never works."

Link (http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlb=211&xlc=1031033)
Jackson is a freaking idiot. He is going to be one of the ones that learn the hardway that there is a time to play tough guy and a time not to. As best I can tell he really has had no serious contact with any teams. If so I am certain it would have made the news.

He isn't that good, he is okay and probably worth a three year $10-$12 mil contract, but thats all until he proves himself more.

He was too inconsistent and wild at times, not to mention butter fingers. Just like the series against the Nets. Instead of playing his role he was always trying to drive it in and he always lost the ball. He single handedly kept giving the Nets the lead.

Message to Jackson: LEARN YOUR ROLE AND UNDERSTAND YOUR ROLE. THEN MAYBE YOU WILL LEARN TO ASK FOR WHAT YOU ARE WORTH, NOT WHAT YOU WANT.

You know what the old saying is, don't you Jack?
Quote:


Want in one hand, and sheet in the other, and see what you get

Idiot!

[Marcus Bryant]

Jack did hit some big shots...and he had the nuts to take those shots. A baseball analogy is that you may have a closer who isn't the greatest starting pitcher, but he can still come in and get the job done. It wasn't just the 4th quarter in the last game of the Finals. He was there with Ginobili in game 6 of the Phoenix series to close it out with some big shots. And in game 6 @ Dallas it was him who was a huge part of that 2nd half run that brought the Spurs from down 15 to down 3 before Kerr took over and of course everyone remembers Kerr's stellar performance in that game, not Jack's 24 points, 3 assists, 3 steals, and going 5 for 7 from downtown. Actually, the WCF was Jack's best series in the playoffs with him averaging 16.3 points, 3.2 rebs, 2.5 assts, 2 steals, and shot 49% on FGs and 35% on 3s in 35 minutes per contest. People jump on Jack for his turnovers but they need to realize that last season was Jack's first real season in a structured environment. He's still a work in progress. He's shown the ability to work hard and accept the responsibility that comes with playing on a championship team.

But saying stuff like "know your role" or whatever is ludicrous. This is still a business. I can't fault Jack if he takes more money elsewhere. He's a young guy not some old ass player who can take less money to "compete for championships" or whatever.

I look at last season as Jack's real rookie year. He didn't have a real coach in NJ as everyone has been made aware now. Personally I do think it will be a shame for him basketball-wise to leave the Spurs. He's got a great situation here and he has a coaching staff that is working with him to develop his talent. But I definitely cannot fault him for taking the money elsewhere.

From the Spurs' perspective, they don't want to overpay a role player, sure, that makes sense. But I would think that it's not easy seeing a young guy like him with still plenty of untapped potential slip away...even if the Spurs have other extremely talented perimeter players. There's also something to be said for continuity now. You'd like to keep a young core of players together and let them grow together. This process started in 2001 with the additions of Parker and SJackson and was continued last season with Manu joining the team. Now they've added Turkoglu and Nesterovic. Jack's been through a playoff war already now. He's proven that when series and championships are on the line, he will be there. I think this is a valuable quality. There are plenty of regular season warriors in the NBA but the playoffs are a whole other animal. They may not be able to afford Jack long term. The luxury tax is not just about paying out however much you are over the threshold, it's also about foregoing your cut of what those teams who are over the threshold have to pay (something on the order of $13 mil this season, I believe...and yes the Spurs did receive it).

Having not examined the long term cap implications and not being privy to more than rumors of where the negotiations are at as well as the demands of both sides, I would say that a fair price for both sides would be on the order of 4 years, $18 to 20 million guaranteed. Jack will have his opportunity to defend his starting spot in training camp in a few months.

Some here underestimate what Jack brings to the table. Yes, he's not a polished player. That doesn't mean he won't improve. The Spurs have provided the first real structure in his basketball life and he has started to excel. For his sake and the Spurs I hope it works out. If not, that's life.

-MB

[exstatic]

We're already going to have one disgruntled wing player next year: Ron Mercer. I wish Jack the best, but he needs to sign elsewhere. Your swing rotation next year will be:

Bowen
Manu
Hedo

With 96 minutes available between the 2 and the 3 spots, they can all average over 30, and bring their particular strengths to the table. Mercer will be available as a change up, or in case of injury. If you try to run a 4 man rotation, with either Mercer or a returning Jack, NO ONE will be happy with their minutes.

[spurster]

SJax was important to the team, but so were all the players in the rotation plus Willis and Kerr. Given the payout for TD, Rose, and Rasho, the Spurs can't afford long-term $5M/year contracts for all the role players.

SJax has played well for one year. He was clutch in the playoffs, but so was JJ in 1999.

If the Spurs keep Mercer, then I would say that $11M for 3 years is what is reasonable. The Spurs already have a backlog at swingmen.

[Spursman]

I too do not fault him if he wants to get paid more, but I do not think he is worth what he is asking, and obviously the Spurs feel the same.

We also cannot have a team filled with Max and MLE players. Maybe a couple of Max and a couiple of MLE's, then you have to fill out the rest of the roster. I think that Hedo will give the Spurs more than what Jack could. I would prefer him over Jack.

When I said 'know your role' I mean that has a part of the team. By knowing that you help the team to play better. Jack thought, apparently, a lot of the times that it was time for him to take over, and if it came to shooting then fine, but he was much too turnover prone to be trying to consistently drive it in.

If we managed to get him I would not be unhappy, just get him at the right price and lets keep the cap flexible for next year.

[KoriEllis]

I wish that they could've worked it out. I wish Jack would have listened to his heart instead of his agent.

If he's gone, I wish him the best and hope that he remembers to keep his head straight wherever he goes.

Good Luck, Mr. Jackson.

[Marcus Bryant]

Mercer is not going to be here past next season. I just don't see him here long term. Now yes, for the short term (ie next season) Mercer can fill-in for Jack on the bench. Also, I see Bowen's role as diminishing on the team over the next couple of seasons.

A 4 year $18 million contract would start at $3.8 million in 2003-04. That's very reasonable for Jack. And that's a full $1 million less than the average NBA salary. Sure, that's guaranteed money for 4 years, but on the flip side you are locking in a talented and clutch player to a below average contract for 4 years.

A 4 year/$20 million contract would start at about $4.2 million. Still below the NBA average.

Before I forget, having a 6'8" athletic shooter who can run the floor and swing between the 2 and 3 is a tremendous asset to have on this Spurs team. There's a reason PJackson loves to have big perimeter role players...if an opponent tries to switch their SF onto your defensive SG then they won't gain an advantage (ie post-up or shoot over). It improves a team's perimeter defense significantly. Jack has fit well in the Spurs' defensive scheme.

Bowen can't play forever.