Who gets the 10th man spot, Beli or LW4

[C-Dub]

We know Forbes will be in the starting lineup because of his shooting, familiarity and comradery. So the starting lineup looks like:

DJM, Forbes, DDR, DC, LMA

We know Patty is going to get minutes because of his salary, familiarity and comrades. So the 2nd unit looks like:

White, Patty, ???, Gay, Poeltl

Who gets the (??? - SF - 10th man) minutes between Beli and LW4?

I believe if LW4 is playing good basketball by the trading deadline and shows that he is ready to contribute then either 2 of Forbes, Mills or Beli will be traded for a 3 and D Small Forward. Let's say Patty stay because of his contract and other obvious reasons then the lineups would look like this:

DJM, DDR, 3 and D, DC, LMA

White, Patty, LW4, Gay, Poeltl

KJ, Lyles, Luka, Metu, buyout vet

What do y'all think?

[Spurtacular]

Trade Mills and Forbes.

[cd021]

We know Forbes will be in the starting lineup because of his shooting, familiarity and comradery. So the starting lineup looks like:

DJM, Forbes, DDR, DC, LMA

We know Patty is going to get minutes because of his salary, familiarity and comrades. So the 2nd unit looks like:

White, Patty, ???, Gay, Poeltl

Who gets the (??? - SF - 10th man) minutes between Beli and LW4?

I believe if LW4 is playing good basketball by the trading deadline and shows that he is ready to contribute then either 2 of Forbes, Mills or Beli will be traded for a 3 and D Small Forward. Let's say Patty stay because of his contract and other obvious reasons then the lineups would look like this:

DJM, DDR, 3 and D, DC, LMA

White, Patty, LW4, Gay, Poeltl

n, Lyles, Luka, Metu, buyout vet

What do y'all think?


I think this is the likely rotation but Walker is probably going to fill in the backup 3 minutes and Beli will get spot minutes until he is either traded or released.

Beli is better for the second unit but Walker has the possibility of contributing too this season. If he can play decent defense, knock down open 3's and attack close-outs then he can be effective.

[spurs10]

They'll share minutes in the second unit and duke it out which is a good thing. If the question is who will get the most minutes, I think it will be 50/50 until the RRT................................. and then either Lonnie has broken through (which I think he will) or he hasn't.

[phxspurfan]

Maybe they're keeping Beli as injury insurance. Or extra shooting. Or maybe Pop trots out two different lineups to use on alternating days, like he did when we had the Turd Towers (tm). aka regular season minutes eaters.

[monty4329]

Having lost Bertans, I can't see how we can get by without Beli's shooting. The first unit's only shooting threat is Forbes -and this season he won't be anymore a "surprise"-, the second unit has maybe Mills and maybe Gay on a good day.

Let's not forget that last season the second unit kept the boat afloat for months, and that was in large part due to Beli.

Regular season is not the PO.

[spurspl]

imo white will be in s5 instead of djm whose coming back from an injury. Mills and forbes should be traded

[4lifecowboy]

DJ and White reminds me of the Manu and Parker situation. One of them are going to have to come off the bench to lead the second unit, of the two White is most likely humble enough to except that role. IMO Mills and Beli will be the two fighting for floor time.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Like some have already stated I think Marco and Lonnie will split minutes early in the season until Lonnie proves he is unequivocally a better option.

Marco, Mills, and Forbes are needed on this roster for consistent 3 point shooting

[Dverde]

The hope is Patty Mills gets hurt and Pop finally sees how useless he is with White, Dejounte, Forbes, DDR on the roster. Kinda of like the Pau situation last year.

[james evans]

Whomever is the worst on defense gets the minutes

[Poolboy5623]

The Spurs are going to put White on the bench? That makes sense..

[cjw]

I’m less concerned with who the starters and bench are, and more about what minutes distribution will look like. We know with the depth they have, they’ll be able to limit most guys ... either minuteswise or by holding them to 70 games. Last year was a grind for Demar and think he needs more off nights this year to be fresher at the end.

32 Demar
32 Aldridge (both guys down 1-2 minutes from last year)
28 Murray
28 White
24 Gay
22 Carroll
20 Forbes
18 Poeltl
36 combined of White / Patty / Beli

Will obviously be tweaked during regular season with guys getting off nights and rotating guys like Lyles and the rookies into the lineup on occasion.

[cd021]

I’m less concerned with who the starters and bench are, and more about what minutes distribution will look like. We know with the depth they have, they’ll be able to limit most guys ... either minuteswise or by holding them to 70 games. Last year was a grind for Demar and think he needs more off nights this year to be fresher at the end.

32 Demar
32 Aldridge (both guys down 1-2 minutes from last year)
28 Murray
28 White
24 Gay
22 Carroll
20 Forbes
18 Poeltl
36 combined of White / Patty / Beli

Will obviously be tweaked during regular season with guys getting off nights and rotating guys like Lyles and the rookies into the lineup on occasion.


That looks about right. I figure it'll be like this;

Murray-Mills (28/20)
Forbes-White (20-22/ 26-28)
DDR-Walker (32/16)
Carroll-Gay (22/26)
LMA- Poeltl (30/18)

Think a deeper team and a better backup 5 means rest games for LMA and fewer minutes when he does play, otherwise Lyles will probably be the 3rd center unless he impresses with the minutes he is likely to get earlier in the season when Pop tinkers.

[cd021]

The Spurs are going to put White on the bench? That makes sense..

Doesn't make sense to have 3 ball handlers in the SL (Murray, White and DDR), especially when the best shooter of the 3 was a below average 3pt shooter last season. Forbes makes a lot more sense as a starter due to his floor spacing.

Having White play 28 mpg off the bench and be the primary ball handler for 10 minutes a game makes a lot more sense. With White, Mills, Walker, Gay, and Poeltl as a second unit, that is probably the bench 2nd unit in the league.

[FkLA]

White >>> Instagram Baller

lol at spurs fans still sleeping on the next great Spur

[DPG21920]

White >>> Instagram Baller

lol at spurs fans still sleeping on the next great Spur

Why can’t they both be great? It’s like saying TP>>>>>Manu when they are both stars.

[FkLA]

Doesn't make sense to have 3 ball handlers in the SL (Murray, White and DDR), especially when the best shooter of the 3 was a below average 3pt shooter last season. Forbes makes a lot more sense as a starter due to his floor spacing.

Having White play 28 mpg off the bench and be the primary ball handler for 10 minutes a game makes a lot more sense. With White, Mills, Walker, Gay, and Poeltl as a second unit, that is probably the bench 2nd unit in the league.

For 10 minutes a game? Yeah, let's take the ball out of the hands of our most crafty player that has natural PG skills to put it in the hands of a low IQ guy with a high dribble. :lol

White needs to have the ball in his hands a lot more than Murray. Even DeRozan should.

[FkLA]

Why can’t they both be great? It’s like saying TP>>>>>Manu when they are both stars.

But have you noticed that most of ST still inexplicably rates IB higher? I mean why would anyone, after what White did last season and how he's showing out with Team USA, not think White is easily the best PG on the team?

[koriwhat]

White >>> Instagram Baller

lol at spurs fans still sleeping on the next great Spur

10 fold. :tu

[DPG21920]

But have you noticed that most of ST still inexplicably rates IB higher? I mean why would anyone, after what White did last season and how he's showing out with Team USA, not think White is easily the best PG on the team?

Because Murray, in his rookie year, made an actual all nba-defensive team. It’s not like he was some scrub. You may like White better, especially due to offense, but there are legit reasons to think Murray can be very impactful too with some improvements.

[Genovaswitness]

American black player in pop’s system = no PT, made into a pariah, screamed at constantly etc

[DAF86]

Why is everybody putting Murray as the starting PG? Dude is just coming off an ACL injury, Pop will be limiting his minutes. Best way to do that is by having him come off the bench.

Lineup will be:

White, Forbes, DeRozan, Carroll/Gay, Aldridge

or

White, Forbes, DeRozan, Aldridge, Poeltl

You know Pop is all about continuity.

[Genovaswitness]

Why is everybody putting Murray as the starting PG? Dude is just coming off an achilles injury, Pop will be limiting his minutes. Best way to do that is by having him come off the bench.

Lineup will be:

White, Forbes, DeRozan, Carroll/Gay, Aldridge

or

White, Forbes, DeRozan, Aldridge, Poeltl

You know Pop is all about continuity.

he tore his ACL, much shorter recovery time. he should start because he’s a better player than white in nearly every way and is two years younger.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

White will probably take over the Manu role, and be the glue-guy. I'd see him perhaps as the first guy off the bench, and always in the game the second half of 4th quarters.

[Genovaswitness]

White will probably take over the Manu role, and be the glue-guy. I'd see him perhaps as the first guy off the bench, and always in the game the second half of 4th quarters.

this tbh

[Dex]

White will probably take over the Manu role, and be the glue-guy. I'd see him perhaps as the first guy off the bench, and always in the game the second half of 4th quarters.

White will also be able to shine against the 2nd units of other teams, and will save us from having to leave Mills as the primary ballhandler off the bench.

DW probably deserves to start, but his talents will be underutilized with Murray, DeRozan, Aldridge, and Carroll surrounding him, and I don't see Murray fitting well will the bench mob.

[FkLA]

Because Murray, in his rookie year, made an actual all nba-defensive team. It’s not like he was some scrub. You may like White better, especially due to offense, but there are legit reasons to think Murray can be very impactful too with some improvements.

I do think IB can be a solid contributor it just irritates me when posters think he should get more minutes than White. Or that the ball should be in his hands more than White. That's such a slight to White, imo.

Also, I don't really care if IB is the one with the actual All-Defense selection. White is still the better defender, he's just slept on by not just our own fanbase but the media as well.

[Genovaswitness]

whites got a big ass head full of marbles

[spurraider21]

But have you noticed that most of ST still inexplicably rates IB higher? I mean why would anyone, after what White did last season and how he's showing out with Team USA, not think White is easily the best PG on the team?
by most of ST do you just mean padre?

[ginobilized]

My guess is that Beli gets the 10th man spot initially.
LW is going to have to beat him. Hope he does.
Regardless of how it shakes out, I am damn excited about the possibilities.
We have a better team than last year, no doubt.

[Arcadian]

Walker

[cd021]

For 10 minutes a game? Yeah, let's take the ball out of the hands of our most crafty player that has natural PG skills to put it in the hands of a low IQ guy with a high dribble. :lol

White needs to have the ball in his hands a lot more than Murray. Even DeRozan should.

I think you misunderstood my post. DDR would be the primary playmaker of the starting unit, Murray would be the secondary playmaker.


White would be the primary playmaker of the second unit with Gay as the secondary. That makes far more sense a starting Murray, White and DDR together.


I do think IB can be a solid contributor it just irritates me when posters think he should get more minutes than White. Or that the ball should be in his hands more than White. That's such a slight to White, imo.

Also, I don't really care if IB is the one with the actual All-Defense selection. White is still the better defender, he's just slept on by not just our own fanbase but the media as well.


Murray still has the higher upside, PATFO thought so before he got injured and they apparently still think so. They'd play about the same amount of minutes as each other but Murray would retain his starting gig and White would be the 6th man.

Really don't think White is a better defender than Murray tbh. You're acting like Murray was just randomly plucked to be the youngest All-Defensive selection ever, he earned it because he was that damn good. White being comparable to him ,defensively, is obviously a positive but its he's not better than Murray at 100%

[FkLA]

by most of ST do you just mean padre?

Read this thread. Read any young core related thread. I've even seen it on the Twitters and YouTube comments too. I know you rate White higher but there are a lot of retards out there that dont.

[FkLA]

I think you misunderstood my post. DDR would be the primary playmaker of the starting unit, Murray would be the secondary playmaker.


White would be the primary playmaker of the second unit with Gay as the secondary. That makes far more sense a starting Murray, White and DDR together.

Or you can start them all and then stagger White and DD afterwards. IB is irrelevant.


Murray still has the higher upside, PATFO thought so before he got injured and they apparently still think so. They'd play about the same amount of minutes as each other but Murray would retain his starting gig and White would be the 6th man.

Says who? They've never done or said anything to suggest they rate IB higher. I think they think highly of both, but they know what they're doing so I'm pretty sure by this point they've figured out White is on the cusp of being special. IB isnt as big of certainty.


Really don't think White is a better defender than Murray tbh. You're acting like Murray was just randomly plucked to be the youngest All-Defensive selection ever, he earned it because he was that damn good. White being comparable to him ,defensively, is obviously a positive but its he's not better than Murray at 100%
[/FONT]

:lol comparable

White is the better defender, period. Better, more versatile man to man defender. Better help defender. Smarter. Frankly, IB's defense is overrated and his reputation is inflated by his rebounding.

[sasaint]

Or you can start them all and then stagger White and DD afterwards. IB is irrelevant.



Says who? They've never done or said anything to suggest they rate IB higher. I think they think highly of both, but they know what they're doing so I'm pretty sure by this point they've figured out White is on the cusp of being special. IB isnt as big of certainty.



:lol comparable

White is the better defender, period. Better, more versatile man to man defender. Better help defender. Smarter. Frankly, IB's defense is overrated and his reputation is inflated by his rebounding.

While I completely share your sentiments, you are beating your head against the wall. Folks will have to be shown the truth this season. And then the trolls will persist. This is ST after all.

[ismael-robert]

Two pages discussing 10th spot lol

[cjw]

As mentioned before and as others have alluded to, Murray and White will likely get roughly similar minutes - 28ish a game. Whether they start or come off the bench depends more on fit than who’s better. White probably works better attacking bench guards, while Murray’s elite defense is great against starting PGs (White’s D is very good too). And closing lineups could include both of them...

[FkLA]

White probably works better attacking bench guards, while Murray’s elite defense is great against starting PGs (White’s D is very good too).

:lol

[TimDunkem]

I don't know what's more sad...LW possibly being a lock for even the 10th spot being a question, or the fact that Marco Belinelli still gets minutes at all.

[timtonymanu]

I don't know what's more sad...LW possibly being a lock for even the 10th spot being a question, or the fact that Marco Belinelli is still on the team at all.

Fixed

[DAF86]

he tore his ACL, much shorter recovery time. he should start because he’s a better player than white in nearly every way and is two years younger.

Yeah, I don't know why I said achilles. I meant ACL.

[DAF86]

he should start because he’s a better player than white in nearly every way and is two years younger.

Also :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

There's literally almost nothing Murray is better at than White. :lol maybe at stealing rebounds from bigmen, that's about it.

[DAF86]

by most of ST do you just mean padre?

And Genovaswitness apparently.

Murray being better than White in nearly every way. :lmao

That has to be one of the dumbest takes of recent times, tbh. :lol

[Genovaswitness]

And Genovaswitness (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49911) apparently.

Murray being better than White in nearly every way. :lmao

That has to be one of the dumbest takes of recent times, tbh. :lol

better defender. younger. better pure scorer. yeah it’s easy to run sets and score when nobody knows who the fuck you are. Murray never had a chance as the sole starting PG for a whole season. he’s gonna shock the world. it’s a good problem to have

[DAF86]

better defender. younger. better pure scorer. yeah it’s easy to run sets and score when nobody knows who the fuck you are. Murray never had a chance as the sole starting PG for a whole season. he’s gonna shock the world. it’s a good problem to have

:lmao:lmao:lmao

Ballhandling=White
Shooting=White
finishing=White
Instincts=White

Please tell me in which aspect of scoring is Murray better than White. :lol

P/S: Murray isn't better than White at defending either, but I'm not gonna argue it because you can at least provide th fact that Murray made all-defensive second team (even though White deserved at least that this season).

[spurraider21]

I’m just salivating at the potential starting backcourt we’re gonna have if Murray fixes his broken J and white becomes a more aggressive and punishing 3 point shooter. Best defensive backcourt since bad boy pistons tbh

[cd021]

Or you can start them all and then stagger White and DD afterwards. IB is irrelevant.



Says who? They've never done or said anything to suggest they rate IB higher. I think they think highly of both, but they know what they're doing so I'm pretty sure by this point they've figured out White is on the cusp of being special. IB isnt as big of certainty.



:lol comparable

White is the better defender, period. Better, more versatile man to man defender. Better help defender. Smarter. Frankly, IB's defense is overrated and his reputation is inflated by his rebounding.


Murray's DRPM was number 1 by a mile during the 17-18 season

Murray-3.60
Tyus Jones-2.40
Lonzo Ball-2.31
Jrue Holiday-2.10
Ricky Rubio-1.98


Last season-

Chris Paul-2.27
George Hill-1.89
Kyle Lowry-1.82
Cory Joseph-1.53
Derrick White-1.45


Murray's DRPM his the highest among PGs in the last six seasons with Eric Bledsoe's 3.97.

DRPM isn't the end all be all but Murray's 17-18 season was the second best among PGs since that stat was created.


Pretty clearly, Dejounte Murray is a better defender but go-ahead and say its because he grabbed a couple of extra defensive rebounds a game :rolleyes


-Zach Lowe, Kevin Arnovizt, Nate Duncan and Danny Leroix all mentioned that they heard that from team officials about how high they are on Murray. Lowe actually said it on a recent podcast that the Spurs are normally tight lipped but were openly gushing about Murray before he got injured last season.

-Whats the point in staggering all three when starting Forbes makes the most sense? The starting lineup needs a sharp shooter and none of Murray, White and DDR currently fill that role.

[TD 21]

They'll share minutes in the second unit and duke it out which is a good thing. If the question is who will get the most minutes, I think it will be 50/50 until the RRT................................. and then either Lonnie has broken through (which I think he will) or he hasn't.

Probably.




For 10 minutes a game? Yeah, let's take the ball out of the hands of our most crafty player that has natural PG skills to put it in the hands of a low IQ guy with a high dribble. :lol


White needs to have the ball in his hands a lot more than Murray. Even DeRozan should.

Unless at least one of Murray or White has made a quantum leap from 3, they'll probably mostly split the PG minutes, with White probably generally closing.

The reason they'd bring White off the bench in that scenario, is the fact that he'd obviously have a more featured role with the bench, where his superior play making is more needed.

But if White is ready for a Siakam like breakout, then what? They're not good enough to play politics, so it's either start him at SG, sub at the under 6 in the 1st and 3rd, then alternate him and Murray ala Aldridge and Gasol (this likely requires running a 9 man rotation) . . . or trade DeRozan.

[FkLA]

Murray's DRPM was number 1 by a mile during the 17-18 season

Murray-3.60
Tyus Jones-2.40
Lonzo Ball-2.31
Jrue Holiday-2.10
Ricky Rubio-1.98


Last season-

Chris Paul-2.27
George Hill-1.89
Kyle Lowry-1.82
Cory Joseph-1.53
Derrick White-1.45


Murray's DRPM his the highest among PGs in the last six seasons with Eric Bledsoe's 3.97.

DRPM isn't the end all be all but Murray's 17-18 season was the second best among PGs since that stat was created.


Pretty clearly, Dejounte Murray is a better defender but go-ahead and say its because he grabbed a couple of extra defensive rebounds a game :rolleyes

lol pretty clearly

Again, White is the better defender. IB's DRPM two seasons ago is outdated thanks to the rule changes that continue to favor offensive players, evidenced by the fact that DRPM numbers dropped across the board. He also had better defenders around him (Green, Fathead) and in general the Spurs were a better defensive team in 17-18 than they were in 18-19. All the other perimeter defenders White shared the court with ranged from below average defenders to flat out turnstyles.

You can put White on bigger guys like Nephew, Harden, Simmons, Doncic, etc. Or smaller guys like Irving, Trae Young, Kemba, J. Murray, etc. And he holds his own against all of them. Flat out bullies some. The team's defense was bottom of the barrel last year until he returned from injury and he single handedly turned it into a middle of the pack defense. No fucking way would IB have done as well if he had been tasked with such a wide range of tough assignments and no way would he have had that kind of impact on a bad defense.

Opposing coaches like Brad Stevens and Lloyd Pierce marveled at White's defense, made it a point to let the media know how good it was in postgame interviews. The national media and dumb fans don't realize how great his defense is but people who know what the fuck they are doing know what's up.


-Zach Lowe, Kevin Arnovizt, Nate Duncan and Danny Leroix all mentioned that they heard that from team officials about how high they are on Murray. Lowe actually said it on a recent podcast that the Spurs are normally tight lipped but were openly gushing about Murray before he got injured last season.

Yeah, nobody is claiming that the Spurs aren't high on him. That doesn't mean they're higher on him than they are White. Especially after what White did last season and after he's played his way onto the Senior USA team.


-Whats the point in staggering all three when starting Forbes makes the most sense? The starting lineup needs a sharp shooter and none of Murray, White and DDR currently fill that role.

So let's see, the starting line-up needs more shooting...so your solution is to plug in a guy who can't shoot at PG, alongside DeRozan who also can't shoot? If you're worried about shooting White-Forbes-DD makes the most sense.

[FkLA]

Unless at least one of Murray or White has made a quantum leap from 3, they'll probably mostly split the PG minutes, with White probably generally closing.

The reason they'd bring White off the bench in that scenario, is the fact that he'd obviously have a more featured role with the bench, where his superior play making is more needed.

But if White is ready for a Siakam like breakout, then what? They're not good enough to play politics, so it's either start him at SG, sub at the under 6 in the 1st and 3rd, then alternate him and Murray ala Aldridge and Gasol (this likely requires running a 9 man rotation) . . . or trade DeRozan.


That's the thing, all signs point to White having that type of breakout year. Yeah, he's had his stumbles along the way but that's normal despite the IB fans trying to paint it out like White falters in big moments. Before Nephew became who he is today he got bodied by Matt Barnes and Roberson. It's the natural course of things.

Pop should try to limit Murray playing PG in the halfcourt offense, imo. Both White and DeRozan are much better playmakers. The best way to utilize him would be to have him play off ball (especially if his shot is as improved as his Instagram timeline would lead you to believe). I'd also allow him to run and push the pace after defensive rebounds.

[TD 21]

That's the thing, all signs point to White having that type of breakout year. Yeah, he's had his stumbles along the way but that's normal despite the IB fans trying to paint it out like White falters in big moments. Before Nephew became who he is today he got bodied by Matt Barnes and Roberson. It's the natural course of things.

Pop should try to limit Murray playing PG in the halfcourt offense, imo. Both White and DeRozan are much better playmakers. The best way to utilize him would be to have him play off ball (especially if his shot is as improved as his Instagram timeline would lead you to believe). I'd also allow him to run and push the pace after defensive rebounds.

I'm not doubting it, just saying it more than likely has to actually happen first for them to change course.

Since Murray isn't a natural on ball or off, his path to success offensively is probably similar to Smart last season. He shot the 3 frequently and well enough that he could get by primarily off ball without destroying their offense, while still providing a source of secondary play making.