Spurs part of THREE WAY TRADE! Hedo and Mercer to SA.

[WriterNum934]

Pacers set to sign Miller, trade him to Kings

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Marc Stein
ESPN.com


Indiana, Sacramento and San Antonio are on the verge of a three-team trade that will send Brad Miller to the Kings, ESPN.com has learned. The deal would foil attempts by Utah and Denver to sign the free-agent center.

HERE'S THE DEAL (SO FAR)
Kings get: C Brad Miller
Pacers get: F/C Scot Pollard
Spurs get: G/F Hedo Turkoglu and G Ron Mercer

The deal calls for Indiana to sign Miller to a multiyear deal and ship him to the Kings, who consider him the ideal long-term replacement for Vlade Divac, the 35-year-old center entering the final year of his contract.

As part of the exchange, Indiana receive Scot Pollard as a replacement for Miller, after the Pacers determined that they couldn't absorb the luxury-tax implications of meeting Miller's money demands.

The trade will also send swingmen Hedo Turkoglu and Ron Mercer to the Spurs as potential replacements for free agent Stephen Jackson. Turkoglu and Mercer are both in the final year of their contracts, preserving San Antonio's salary-cap flexibility for next summer when it must re-sign Manu Ginobili. Jackson is seeking a long-term deal.

It's expected that at least one more player will be involved in the deal, likely going to Indiana, to satisfy salary-cap requirements

espn.go.com/nba/columns/s...84734.html (http://espn.go.com/nba/columns/stein_marc/1584734.html)

[Marcus Bryant]

Pull the trigger.

[Mark in Austin]

**** yes.

Then dump Mercer.

[Gridmed]

I LOVE IT!! Finally a ray of hope...I hope it works out.

I especially like Turk. He had limited minutes and often made the most of them.

Position: F
Born: 03/19/79
Height: 6-10 / 2,08
Weight: 220 lbs. / 99,8 kg.
From: Turkey
2002-03 Statistics
REBOUNDS PER GAME
TEAM G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
SAC 67 11 17.5 165-391 .422 29-78 .372 88-110 .800 .50 2.30 2.80 1.3 .37 .18 .75 1.90 6.7

GO SPURS!

-G

[adonis50]

Sad to part ways with SJax. Turkoglu though at 6'10'' can play 2-3 and 4, he's more versatile (even though softer).
Pull the trigger.

[Admiral]

We could've traded dead weight for Mercer and Artest over a year ago, but the Fantasy Summer of 2003 plan got in the way of that.

Mercer + Artest >= Mercer + Turkoglu

I like the idea of not being committed to Mercer and Turkoglu past next summer. We know we will have them for a year regardless. This is yet another example of how trades put you in control, and free agency doesn't.

Does that mean SJax is out if we do this?

[Marcus Bryant]

This trade doesn't happen unless the Spurs have the cap room, Ghost Jr. Now crawl back in your hole.

[Spurminator]

We could've traded dead weight for Mercer and Artest over a year ago, but the Fantasy Summer of 2003 plan got in the way of that.


Yeah,... if only we'd done that we might have won the Championship last year.

Oh wait.

http://www.ooze.com/finger/assets/images/jcash.jpg

[Marcus Bryant]

Also, I'd take Turkoglu anytime over Ron "Mental" Artest.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Turkoglu>Artest

No question about it!!

[F7]

Artest will never be a Spur.

[Admiral]

My point is that this is a very similar deal to the one we turned down a year ago - because we thought we would do better this summer. We were wrong.

Oh yeah, this summer wasn't about signing max free agents. It was about "flexibility." :rolleyes

[Marcus Bryant]

You have no point. Anyways that Mercer & Artest deal was a figment of Sam Smith's imagination, Ghost Jr.

So let's see...the Spurs have a young core and they can add Turkoglu to that....as well as preserve cap room to re-sign Ginobili. Damn that sucks.

[adonis50]

Admiral,
Why trade for Artest when you have Bowen to your team?

[F7]

Artest is emotionally unstable.. Spurs didn't accept that deal because Artest is a walking attitude.. he doesn't fit in with the team character.. it's a deal the Spurs would have never accepted even if they weren't conserving capspace.

[Spurminator]

My point is that this is a very similar deal to the one we turned down a year ago - because we thought we would do better this summer. We were wrong.

Thanks to our flexibility this summer, we were still able to pull this off. We could have pulled the trigger last year, Artest could have blown up as a Spur, we would have lost the Championship, and we never would have known what this summer could have brought.

I don't understand the gripe.


http://www.ooze.com/finger/assets/images/jcash.jpg

[T Park Num 9]

Turoglu >>>>>>>>>>>>> Artest

MUCH better.

Plus hes ateam player, not a nut job like Artest.

[Admiral]

You have no point. Anyways that Mercer & Artest deal was a figment of Sam Smith's imagination, Ghost Jr. -Marcus Bryant

You really are going to this excuse too often. First you said the Payton deal was not real, and then you said the same about Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Now Smitty for Mercer and Artest was false as well? And you know this how?


So let's see...the Spurs have a young core and they can add Turkoglu to that....as well as preserve cap room to re-sign Ginobili. Damn that sucks. -Marcus Bryant

I wasn't complaining about this deal, but noting that it is eerily similar to the one we refused a year ago. That is, unless your "sources" were right and it wasn't really discussed.

I understand what this move does for us, and I like it. I think it's a great move. I'm sorry if that means SJax is gone, but that's the way it goes sometimes.

[Marcus Bryant]

How is this a similiar deal other than Mercer? Also, if you had Mercer on the team now how could you make a "similiar deal"?

Give it up Admiral.

[Marcus Bryant]

You really are going to this excuse too often. First you said the Payton deal was not real, and then you said the same about Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Now Smitty for Mercer and Artest was false as well? And you know this how?

Because all those were friggin' rumors reported by well known speculators. How the F do you think the Spurs were going to get Abdur-Rahim? Steve Smith and a smile? Get Fing real.

[Bounce580]

Turkoglu AND Tony on the same team?!? Is it possible to have two of the 50 most beautiful people on the same team?

[ShoogarBear]

You guys are letting baises get in the way of objectivity.

On the basis of pure basketball ability, Artest >> Turkeyglu or Bowen.

I don't want Artest, but the fact remains IF he ever gets his head on straight, he a DPOY and probable third-team All-NBA.

The question for the Spurs is, can Hedo play some credible minutes at the 4? And this probably means no Piatkowski, right?

[Marcus Bryant]

Artest isn't that good. 3rd team all-nba??

[Admiral]

That's funny, Bounce. :lol

[SpursFanInAustin]

Who is SA gonna give up in salary? Sign n trade Jackson?

[ShoogarBear]

And does anyone else find funny the idea that we're "foiling" Utah and Denver by sending Miller to the Kings.

"Drat!"
*twiddle mustache*
"To the lottery we go!"l

[Marcus Bryant]

If they could rework Horry's deal to give him more guaranteed years then they might be able to lower his salary for next season.

[ShoogarBear]

MB: Artest averaged 15-16 pts, 5-6 boards, 3 assists last year.

If he improved those number a little and won DPOY, I could see him sneaking into third-team.

[Marcus Bryant]

He needs more than that.

[T Park Num 9]

he needs a therapist first of all.


Dudes literally nuts.


He needs to spend some time with jack Nicholson at the nut house.

[Shaq H8ter]

It's expected that at least one more player will be involved in the deal, likely going to Indiana, to satisfy salary-cap requirements

I do have to say Hedo Turkoglu would be real intersting as a pickup but, Mercer is expensive.

Yeah Turkoglu!! :rollin
Ick, Mercer can't even shoot the 3! :vomit

Hidayet Turkoglu - $1,300,920 - 2004-05
Ron Mercer - $6,750,000 - 2003-04(old?)
jazzhoops.net/salary.htm (http://jazzhoops.net/salary.htm)

I wonder who the other mystery person is?

Boy they must really have something planned in a year or two.

I could see T Mac as a target but, isn't he two years out?

[adonis50]

Glenn Robinson averaged 20 points, 6.5 rebounds and 3 assists, like Artest he's not even close to 3rd NBA-team nomination. It takes more than stats:smokin

[NCaliSpurs]

Those numbers were close to Parker's if you switch the rebounds and the assists.

Parker was not third team all-nba. Artest was not either.

To be considered in the top 15 in the NBA is a real honor.

I hope that Parker will be there while Timmy is less than 30 years old.

Being good is different than being great.

[Marcus Bryant]

Again, if Horry's deal is reworked to where he gets more guaranteed years at a lower starting salary then the Spurs can do this deal without sending out anyone 'cept picks.

[SanAntonioBard]

If they could rework Horry's deal to give him more guaranteed years then they might be able to lower his salary for next season.

How many 6'10" shooters do we need, anyway?:wink

This also lets Pop shove it RIGHT UP DAN FEGAN'S ASS. Gives you a nice combination of O and D in your swing rotation with Turk, Manu, and Bowen, with Mercer as a spare. Just going by the friggin ratios on realgm :cuss , it looks like the Spurs only take on about $9M in salary, leaving enough for a backup PG.

[goliath]

Plus we would get Turk's Bird rights as well. Renounce Horry and Mercer and resign Turk and Manu next summer

[T Park Num 9]

Agree 100%

This gives them barganing power over Jack now.


LOVE this trade.

ESPNEWS said it looks like the Spurs only give up draft picks.

AWESOME DEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Marcus Bryant]

No they'll keep Horry. Just rework the deal to make this trade happen. No way do they back out on him.

It would in theory make Jack expendable though I would hate to see that.

They have enough room on the active roster to take on Mercer and Turkoglu as well as keep Jack. Kerr and Manu could handle the backup point duties.

I believe the Spurs would have 48 hours in which to find a home for Mercer in another trade.

[T Park Num 9]

Horry more than likely will have to be garunteed a second year thats why they prob havent announced this signing yet.

[ShoogarBear]

Obviously, you're ignoring the part where I say "he wins DPOY".

That's the same reason why Ben Wallace makes All-NBA.

That's also how Alvin Robertson and Rodman made a couple of teams.

You're right it's not about stats. Which is my whole point.

[SanAntonioBard]

Ben Wallace makes it because there aredamn few centers in the league, and he leads it in rebounds


That's also how Alvin Robertson and Rodman made a couple of teams.

Both made all DEFENSIVE teams, but no all NBA teams 1 2 or 3.

[KoriEllis]

If this trade goes through, then there will be no Piatkowski and most likely no Jack. I just hope it goes though without the Spurs giving up a current player (Bowen/Malik). To do that, they have to renegotiate Horry's deal.

[SpursFanInAustin]

Who were those people in here just bashing the Spurs Front Office saying they're letting other teams get better without capspace while the Spurs were just settling for Rasho and Horry? I thought Pop and RC were just gonna sit on their ass with their fingers scratching their butts all summer.

[ShoogarBear]

Both made all DEFENSIVE teams, but no all NBA teams 1 2 or 3.

BZZZT!

Wrong.

Robertson: All-NBA 2nd team 1985-1986 (SA)
Rodman: All-NBA 3rd team 1991-1992 (Det), 1994-1995 (SA)

[Marcus Bryant]

Mercer will be gone next summer if not this summer. Yes, if they have to keep Mercer the roster would be a little crowded now but I don't see a reason to run Jack away.

If they do this deal with only sending out draft picks then that means that they won't sign a backup PG if they re-sign Jack. They can use Kerr and Ginobili to do that.

Of course, if Kerr was willing to spend the season on IR then they could sign a backup PG but I kinda doubt that.

[scott]

I agree that Artest has All-NBA talent if he can keep his head on straight. But that is like saying Dennis Rodman could be a good addition to our team tomorrow if he could keep his on straight.

THe fact is Artest can't keep his head on straight, and he'll never be a Spur- so lets not worry about it.

I like this deal.

Now for some questions.

I'd assume this deal would make the chances of resigning Jackson slimmer (please correct me if I'm wrong, which I hope I am). So in the event Jack goes elsewhere:

Mercer is listed as a forward, but can he start at the two? Or is Manu our starting 2? If Mercer can start, I think he can return to the form he had in Chicago, putting up some Derek Anderson like number (15ppg). If Manu is our 2, does Mercer split time between the 2 and 3?

Well shit, I forgot about Hedo.

Can someone hook me up with a minutes breakdown of how this works- without entering the fantasy world idea that Pop is suddenly going to stop starting Bowen.

[Marcus Bryant]

Mercer would be the odd man out, IMO. I don't think the Spurs want to lose Jack even if this deal goes down. I would not be surprised to see the Spurs turn around and deal Mercer within the 48 hour 'grace period'.

[TwoHandJam]

MB: Artest averaged 15-16 pts, 5-6 boards, 3 assists last year.

He also averaged about 34 mpg. Why do people make this mistake so often? There is no way that Artest is >> Turkoglu. The last time Turk averaged significant minutes in '01-'02 he put up 10 ppg, 4.5 rpg and 2 apg in only 25mpg. Very comparable to Artest's stats if we extrapolate the extra minutes.

I want Turk. Sign him up.

[SanAntonioBard]

Alright, 'bear, ya got me. I think AR squeeked on once because of the QUAD/DOUBLE and leading the league in steals, and Rodman was CONSISTANTLY an NBA rebounding champ. What outstanding single trait does Artest have, other than being suspended? He's regarded as a pest on defense, and a FUCKING PSYCHO league-wide, and don't forget that these teams are voted on. Artest had less than a zero chance to ever get voted to one, snice his bona fides would be questionable/borderline anyway, and his antics would turn the tide against him.

BTW, ARTEST ISN'T COMING, OR PART OF THE DEAL. The major reason is probably, besides being a fucking psycho, his deal runs past next year.

[ShoogarBear]

Hedo is nowhere near the defender that Artest is, and nowhere near as valuable. The point of the stats is that Artest is a GREAT defender who also brings reasonable offense to the game.

I don't want Artest, but statements like Hedo > Artest would get laughed out of any serious basketball discussion.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well I'll be one happy mofo if they land Turkoglu for just picks. You guys can go Ghostal all you want and worry about deals that never were.

[2Cleva]

Interesting that the Spurs and Kings would pull off a deal that would help each other.

Can't see how this deal works without SA dealing a player to Indy, most likely Rose.

[Marcus Bryant]

Assuming, of course, that Horry signs for one year guaranteed at $5 mil. Spurs can guarantee more years at a lower salary and all the Spurs have to send out is picks.

Rose is not going to be dealt.

[Spursman]

There has to be more to this trade than we know. There is no way that the Kings get Miller, Pacers get Pollard and we get Turkoglu and Mercer. We will have to package somebody and my guess is that it would be Jackson.

Kings send Pollard to the Pacers
The Pacers send Miller to the Kings
The Spurs get Turkoglu and Mercer

Anybody see a gap there?

[timvp]

WGAF about Artest?



This is a very good trade for the Spurs. Hedo is a player they've wanted since he was available in that year's draft. At 6'10, he can shoot and penetrate. He'll help out rebounding and is also a good passer.

I don't really like Mercer but he can score. He probably won't play much and hopefully the Spurs can ship him out for someone else. At worst, he's a solid sparkplug as a 11th or 12th man.

[Marcus Bryant]

Again, if Horry agrees to a longer guaranteed deal at a lower rate then the Spurs can do this deal with just picks. No gap whatsoever.

[IcemanCometh]

DO THIS FUCKING TRADE

[SpursWoman]

Iceman? Would this make you happy? :shock







:makeout :wink

[Spursman]

If they get Hedo is there any real reason to go after Horry? After all they are both 6'10" and would essentially play the same position.

[SanAntonioBard]

Can't see how this deal works without SA dealing a player to Indy, most likely Rose.

"Capspace is a commodity..." Spurs Fan

We have 12.4M of it, and the contracts we would receive are only about 9M. Easy peasy. I would fell safe to say the neither team WANTS any contracts in return, Sacto being in DEEP luxtax land, and Indy teetering on the border.

[ShoogarBear]

Horry is a better defender and can guard big men.

Hedo isn't really a 4.

Hedo should get more minutes, but if Horry's willing to accept a Danny Ferry role, it works.

[Spursman]

Marc Stein was just now saying on ESPN that the Spurs most likely will not be re-signing Jackson.

[IcemanCometh]

Now they say the Spurs are surrendering future draft picks

[SanAntonioBard]

So? Our fucking picks usually get traded away, anyways. The only decent pick we have anytime soon is that second rounder from the Grizz. Personally, I think turning THAT pick into Turkoglu is a triumph, and that may not even be what they are asking for.

[adidas11]

I just got in from playing soccer, and I read about this trade on ESPN.

Needless to say, I'm not thrilled.

Hedo > SJax. Mercer might not be too bad either.

Crap.

[SanAntonioBard]

Hedo > SJax

In fairness, Jax is probably a much better defender, but Hedo shoots better from downtown (.37 to .32), in spite of Jax hot streaks, and handles the ball MUCH better (.7 TO to 2.2 TO). You also have Bowen and Manu still here, and Mercer for situational defense. In this offense, Turk might shoot 44-45%. Large increases in 3G% are NOT unheard of coming to SA...see DA, JJ, Manu, Tony.

[Jimcs50]

Kings send Pollard to the Pacers
The Pacers send Miller to the Kings
The Spurs get Turkoglu and Mercer


What are the Spurs giving up to get these players? This looks too good to be true.

[Jimcs50]

Has anyone thought of the repercussions here in Sacto? This might get Sacto into the Finals. The addition of Miller will make that team almost unstopable. The West is loaded even moreso this year. The poor stepchildren in the East are in for another ass whipping by all WC teams in reg season again, not to mention the Finals.

[blackbucket]

Bounce:

Turkoglu AND Tony on the same team?!? Is it possible to have two of the 50 most beautiful people on the same team?

Maybe TurkeyGlue can refer Manu to his plastic surgeon and trim some of that beak.

This deal is a no brainer and a "steal" for the Spurs. Get it done.

[TwoHandJam]

Hedo is nowhere near the defender that Artest is, and nowhere near as valuable. The point of the stats is that Artest is a GREAT defender who also brings reasonable offense to the game.

I don't want Artest, but statements like Hedo > Artest would get laughed out of any serious basketball discussion.
What kind of ridiculous statement is this? It's statements like this that get people laughed out of "serious basketball discussions."

I for one say that Hedo is >= Artest. Just because you think Artest is a great player doesn't make it so. Show stats to back up your point. I already pointed out that if you extrapolate Hedo's stats to match Artest's playing time they are virtually identical. Not to mention that we live in the real world where you have to deal with Artest being mentally unstable and the consequences thereof. I would never want Artest on my team over Hedo.

[RBodenburg2150]

The addition of Miller will make that team almost unstoppable.

I'll assume this line was meant to be funny. I sure got a laugh out of it. Miller would be a solid addition, but he hardly makes them "unstoppable." Let's remember he's spent his entire career in the East so far.

[Jimcs50]

Only statedwith a slight over exaggeration, Sacto will be much better and they were the favs to win it all, all year last year, so I am looking for them to be in top 2 again next year.

[WriterNum934]

Hedo:
MPG: 18 - FG%: .42 - 3P%: .37 - FT% .80 - PPG: 7

Artest:
MPG: 34 - FG%: .43 - 3P%: .34 - FT%: .74 - PPG: 16

You jump Hedo's minutes to 34-36 a game and he's avg. what Artest is. Maybe more.

[ShoogarBear]

Evidently the word "defense" hits a blind spot on your retina.

Artest is on the All-Defense team, and people who WATCH THE GAME generally agree that he and Bowen are 1/2 or 2/1 when it comes to on-the-ball defense. There are no stats which measure that, no matter how hard your little fingers may type.

Hedo is below-average on defense at best, and was getting reamed out by Kings fans for his poor defensive efforts last year. Hopefully Pop will fix at least the effort part.

And all you've done is show that offensively, they're about equal.

I rest my case.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's not for certain that Jack won't be back. It's his agent who is fucking everything up. There is room for Jack in SA. **** Fegan. I will hunt you down and force you to read Ghost and Admiral's posts you nutsucker. Go Spurs Go.

[WriterNum934]

Ok, since we have Bowen, why not have a really good offensive player now.

Bowen is going to contain Kobe, now lets put someone our there who can hit some shots.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Gotta love this trade if it goes down.

Like to retain Jax and jettison Mercer though, if possible. I feel very sorry for Jax if he's the odd one out, but I guess this is a business...

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh come on this sux RuffNHeadyDoggyStyle. You told me. Be sad, man. :(

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

**** you Marcus, I never said anything like that. My beef was that the Holting Pattern didn't bring us a star, and it didn't (although I thought all along that it would).

I also stated that my disappointment was in the FAs and not our front office (I know they can't force players to sign), and my faith in the front office has been rewarded. They worked a bad situation into one that is reasonably good, kudos and thanks go out to them.

Really, I knew you'd take a shot at me in this thread, but why? Dude, you don't need to make everything so "us v them", especially not by mis-representing people's views.

This trade, while not bringing us a star, would salvage the off-season. It gives us by far the strongest one star team in the league - in fact, should it go down I think we become the NBA depth leader.

With TD, TP, MG, etc, we were always going to contend, but this makes us a strong contender again.

[picnroll]

Ferry is the player we're sending to the Pacers.link to article (http://www.indystar.com/print/articles/8/060189-3718-092.html)

Pacers trading Brad Miller to Sacramento
Center Pollard coming here; Indiana also trades Mercer to San Antonio in three-team deal, signs point guard Anthony Johnson.

Related Content

PRINCIPAL PLAYERS

BRAD MILLER
• Position: Center
• Birthdate: April 4, 1976
• Height/Weight: 7-0, 261
• College: Purdue '98
• Old team/new team: Pacers/Sacramento

RON MERCER
• Position: Forward
• Birthdate: May 18, 1976
• Height/Weight: 6-7, 210
• College: Kentucky '99
• Old team/new team: Pacers/San Antonio

SCOT POLLARD
• Position: Forward-Center
• Birthdate: Feb. 12, 1975
• Height/Weight: 6-11, 265
• College: Kansas '97
• Old team/new team: Sacramento/Pacers

HIDAYET TURKOGLU
• Position: Forward
• Birthdate: March 19, 1979
• Height/Weight: 6-10, 220
• From: Turkey
• Old team/new team: Sacramento/San Antonio

ANTHONY JOHNSON
• Position: Point guard
• Birthdate: Oct. 2, 1974
• Height/Weight: 6-3, 190
• College: Charleston (SC) '97
• Old team/new team: New Jersey/Pacers

DANNY FERRY
• Position: Forward
• Birthdate: Oct. 17, 1966
• Height/Weight: 6-10, 235
• College: Duke '89
• Old team/new team: San Antonio/Pacers

By Mark Montieth
[email protected]
July 23, 2003


Brad Miller gets a mega-contract and an opportunity to play for a championship contender.

The Indiana Pacers at least get compensation for losing their starting center, picking up an experienced center while also gaining financial flexibility.



Brad Miller
That is the essence of a three-team trade that, while unofficial, will soon become reality, according to various league sources.

The Pacers will sign Miller to a seven-year deal reportedly worth about $68 million, then send him to Sacramento for Scot Pollard and Hedo Turkoglu. They in turn will ship Turkoglu along with Ron Mercer to San Antonio in a salary dump that will enable them to re-sign Reggie Miller and add another free agent or two.

They also obtained Danny Ferry's non-guaranteed contract from the Spurs, potentially worth $4.5 million next season. They can release the 36-year-old forward without penalty, pick up his option and include him in another deal, or keep him.

The Pacers also agreed to terms Wednesday with point guard Anthony Johnson, a six-year veteran who played the past two seasons in New Jersey.

Johnson signed a two-year deal, with a player option for the second year, at a salary starting at the minimum of $813,679.

Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh declined to comment on the transactions until they become official. The news of Miller's trade, however, was met with great disappointment by team officials from Utah and Denver.

The Jazz and Nuggets had offered Miller lucrative six-year contracts, only to come away empty-handed. Miller will get an additional year on his contract and can receive greater increases because he's technically signing with the Pacers, who own his Larry Bird rights.

"Brad Miller would have been good for us, but I understand why he's going to Sacramento," Denver general manager Kiki Vandeweghe told the Denver Post on Wednesday.

"He had choices," said Kevin O'Connor, Utah's vice president of basketball operations. "When you make the All-Star team, you have the options he had."

Indiana had hoped to re-sign Miller, who averaged 13.1 points and 8.3 rebounds last season, but were unwilling to exceed the salary cap. Instead, he'll join a Kings team that could be a contender in the Western Conference for the foreseeable future.

The Pacers now have about $50 million in salary committed for next season, with about $7 million available to spend without exceeding the luxury tax threshold. They'll continue to look for opportunities to improve a roster that took a major hit by losing Miller.

Jermaine O'Neal, who re-signed with the Pacers on July 16, was disappointed over the departure of the center who complemented him well, but remained hopeful.

"It makes you anxious," O'Neal said. "Teams are getting better every day. Look at what the (Minnesota) Timberwolves have done (trading for Latrell Sprewell). They've become a contender. We have to do that. If the organization has any will to get to the next level, we'll make some moves. I don't think we need gigantic moves. We just need added pieces. Time is running out. Guys are signing and finding homes.

"I'm pretty positive that things will get done. I have a lot of confidence in what Donnie does. Come Oct. 1 (the start of training camp), I think we'll be happy with the team we have on the court."

Pollard, 28, who is 6-11 and 265 pounds, averaged 4.5 points and 4.6 rebounds last season, when he was limited to 23 games by a broken right hand and a stress fracture in his lower back.

Pollard, 28, averaged 6.4 points and 7.1 rebounds two seasons ago, when he was healthy.

Johnson, 28, averaged 7.5 points as a rookie in Sacramento. He has since played for four teams.

He averaged 4.1 points and 1.3 assists while playing 12.8 minutes per game for the Nets last season. He became expendable after the Nets drafted another point guard, Zoran Planinic.

Johnson's agent, Richard Howell, said his client had offers from four other teams.

"He respects the guards (the Pacers) have but he's hopeful if he plays well he'll earn some quality playing time," Howell said.

.

[timvp]

They also obtained Danny Ferry's non-guaranteed contract from the Spurs, potentially worth $4.5 million next season. They can release the 36-year-old forward without penalty, pick up his option and include him in another deal, or keep him.

:wtf

How can the Spurs give them a player that isn't under contract?

[Marcus Bryant]

Sweet. Ferry's salary going out means that the Spurs can take back 115% of it. That's what helped to make this deal work.

:)

[Marcus Bryant]

**** you Marcus, I never said anything like that. My beef was that the Holting Pattern didn't bring us a star, and it didn't (although I thought all along that it would).

The same to you, kiddo. You ran your mouth and now we see the result.

:next3

[SanAntonioBard]

"It makes you anxious," O'Neal said. "Teams are getting better every day. Look at what the (Minnesota) Timberwolves have done (trading for Latrell Sprewell). They've become a contender. We have to do that. If the organization has any will to get to the next level, we'll make some moves. I don't think we need gigantic moves. We just need added pieces. Time is running out. Guys are signing and finding homes.

Crying like a little bitch already Jermaine? You hadja chance to be on a contender. Now your bodyguard is gone, and everyone is going to beat you up and take your lunch money. You sound like a fucking Spurs fan. Wahhhh!!!!

Oh, and Isaiah Thomas will be fired by Larry "if he were black he'd be just another player" Bird within a year. Bird has hated him ever since he said that. Have a nice day.

[Coolidge]

Oh well the Spurs ended up with some fabulous consolation prizes.

:)

[mattyc2422]

Jackson has been in SA for two years, and under Pop's guidance he has improved immensely. He was a scrub, next he's hitting shots in the NBA championship.

He's not a complete player by any means, but his ability to hit a shot and get players on their toes if they slack off.

I'm a huge Jackson fan. His energy will be missed.

Hedo is a great addition to the Spurs depth.

Mercer, I'm not sure about. We shall see.

[mattyc2422]

Jackson has been in SA for two years, and under Pop's guidance he has improved immensely. He was a scrub, next he's hitting shots in the NBA championship.

He's not a complete player by any means, but his ability to hit a shot and get players on their toes if they slack off.

I'm a huge Jackson fan. His energy will be missed.

Hedo is a great addition to the Spurs depth.

Mercer, I'm not sure about. We shall see.

What is it with Spurs going after guys that wear #5. Kidd, Horry, Mercer and Hedo?

[TwoHandJam]

Evidently the word "defense" hits a blind spot on your retina.

Artest is on the All-Defense team, and people who WATCH THE GAME generally agree that he and Bowen are 1/2 or 2/1 when it comes to on-the-ball defense. There are no stats which measure that, no matter how hard your little fingers may type.

Hedo is below-average on defense at best, and was getting reamed out by Kings fans for his poor defensive efforts last year. Hopefully Pop will fix at least the effort part.

And all you've done is show that offensively, they're about equal.

I rest my case.
Evidently the word "headcase" hits a blind spot on your retina. People who WATCH THE GAME know that Artest has some very real problems which got him suspended on more than one occasion and were very detrimental to his team.

Maybe you want a guy who provokes and chest bumps opposing team's coaches when he's not ripping cameras from TV crews and smashing them in the lockerroom? Perhaps his all NBA defense will come in handy when he's on the sideline after a suspension? Other than that I could really see him working out on the Spurs.

[Ghost Writer]

:cuss


This is sh1t.

We turned down a deal from Chicago for Artest and Mercer in exchange for Steve Smith in 2001.

Now we're gonna do Mercer and Turkeyglue two years later.

Awful.

And I won't let you homers forget how you called Mercer a cancer.

We should've thrown money at Speedy and given Jackson the contract he wanted.

I hate our team for next year.

:cooldevil

[travis2]

:rolleyes

*sigh*

[Marcus Bryant]

:lol

Now that wasn't expected.

[Ghost Writer]

Great comeback.

Please tell me the logic.

Mercer and Artest in 2001 > Mercer and Turkyglu in 2003


Jackson and Claxton gave this team attitude and athleticism.

Nesterovic is not a star.

This is sh1t.

:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh shut up and grow up. Mercer is nothing but filler and could be gone soon.

[MannyIsGod]

lmao

some things never change

Shit I'll say it Hideo + Mercer > Artest + Mercer

[Ghost Writer]

Are the two of you Siamese Idiots?

Manny thinks Turkeyglu is better than Artest.

This is the homer bullsh1t I have to put up with day in and day out here.

Some blockbuster summer, Marcus. The Holt-ing Pattern you now claim to have supported all along is a joke.


:cooldevil

[MannyIsGod]

You know, if Artest was a normal person who didn't remind me of rodman, I'd LOVE him on a team.

But well, everyone here can see through that act and see him for the time bomb he is, with the exception of you ghost.

Some of us know the value of chemistry, you do not.

Fine.

[Ghost Writer]

Manny, do you really think Pop would let Artest go crazy like that idiot Thomas did and encouraged?




Question.



:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

Go **** yourself Ghost. If you think this summer is awful you should go join your friends over at the old forum.

I'm sure you'd be welcomed there. It's well suited for your intellectual abilities.

[Ghost Writer]

For what you said this summer was supposed to be, Marcus, it is certainly awful. All your Spurs homer spin can't hide that. Sacramento, Minnesota and LA have all had better offseasons than us.

I can't say that I am surprised, but I am definitely disappointed.

:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

:lol

I never made any promises. Children like you do those things. I guess the Spurs should've blown up their roster to add some old ass former all-star talent in short term moves like LA and Minnesota.

Get fucking real, man.

[MannyIsGod]

Artest is uncontrollable.

The only way Pop would have been able to prevent him acting like that would be to not play him, so wtf good would he do us then?

[kohai]

Artest is a fool, and as in Rodman's case, once they go "wild" even the Spurs can't be enough of a good influence on them.

Mercer is nothing but a capspace holder, a la Steve Smith.

Even Adidas recognizes the value of this trade, GW. He was NOT happy that it went down.

[Ghost Writer]

Marcus, does all your Spurs homer spinning make you Dizzy?

You used to be respectable. Now you're a caricature of yourself.

If I told you two years ago that we were going to clear cap space for two years and pass on free agent signings and trades for talent to bring in the likes of Nesterovic and Horry, you would've said hell no.



Okay, fellas. Artest is a maniac that can't be controlled. They said the same thing about Kenyon Martin, too. How come Artest didn't have these issues until he started playing for Thomas?



Question.


:cooldevil

[T Park Num 9]

heres my question.


How come you sucha grumpy asshole?


Bring something to the table ghost instead of bitching.

How is Artest better than Turkoglu.

HOW IS GETTING THESE TWO GUYS FOR NOTHING!!

NOTHING!!!

WORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ghost Writer]

(ignoring Tard Num 9)

Marcus, does all your Spurs homer spinning make you Dizzy?

You used to be respectable. Now you're a caricature of yourself.

If I told you two years ago that we were going to clear cap space for two years and pass on free agent signings and trades for talent to bring in the likes of Nesterovic and Horry, you would've said hell no.



Okay, fellas. Artest is a maniac that can't be controlled. They said the same thing about Kenyon Martin, too. How come Artest didn't have these issues until he started playing for Thomas?



Question.


:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

Ghost, I've been laughing at your Chicken Little act all morning long. Get yourself together, man.

[T Park Num 9]

ANSWER THE POPDAMN questions GHOSTWHINER


ANSWER THE POPFUCKING QUESTION!!!


HOW, is getting two VERY talented swingmen FOR NOTHING!!!

FOR NOTHING!!!! IS BAD?!?!??!?!!?!?!?



QUESTION!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[T Park Num 9]

waiting on the answer.

Come on Ghostbitch.


Answer the popdamn question!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Mercer and Artest in 2001 > Mercer and Turkyglu in 2003

Ghost, are you trying to tell me that two cancers are better than one?

Question.

AHF

[T Park Num 9]

We are waiting Ghost,

come on biatch, be a man, get a plan, and answer the damn question.

[Ghost Writer]

I've answered your stupid Questions already. Read.

You and the other Johnny Come Lately, AHF, always come in late with the same driven I've already addressed.

T Park, we are losing your new favorite Spurs, Stephen Jackson and you are cool with that. You are the ultimate homer.

If you think Hedo is better than Artest, I can't have an intelligent conversation with you anyway.

PLease tell me this summer is a nightmare that I will wake up from.

:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

:lol

Ghost, you don't know this league. Go away. Go worry about the Jets.

[Ghost Writer]

Sure, Marcus.

Hedo > Artest... only in Spurs Homer Land.


:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

:lol

And the Spurs just didn't win a championship and Artest doesn't isn't afflicted by a mental illness.

Once Turkoglu gets the minutes he will get in SA then talk to me about how great Artest is, numbnuts.

[Ghost Writer]

I think you are confusing Turkoglu with Stojakovic.


Thomas encourages Artest to be crazy. He never had these problem in Chicago or at St. John's.


:cooldevil

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You and the other Johnny Come Lately, AHF, always come in late with the same driven I've already addressed.


Sorry, I've got better things to do in the morning than wait around for you to make a stupid post. It happens every day, I know whenever I make it around to the site they'll still be there.

We got our future 3man (Hedo) out of this deal and gave ourselves enough room to re-sign Manu next summer and you're bitching.

Whatever.

AHF

[ChumpDumper]

http://www.mouseplanet.com/destiny/link.jpg
"I heartily endorse this trade."

[Shaq H8ter]

Why the hell are we still talking about Artest!
We're signing Hedo and Mercer not Artest!

Go start a Artest vs Hedo Thread if you want argue about greener grass and how A>B or A<B.

[Ghost Writer]

Aggie, don't step up if you're nmot willing to get beat down.

It's not about what the Spurs are doing, it's about what they didn't do or could've done.

Two years of cap clearing isn't worth Horry, Hedo and Rasho, pal.


:cooldevil

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's called the big Picture Ghost...

In Rasho we've got our 5 man for the years of Tims' prime.

Hedo will take over from Bowen the 3 spot and be the man there for Tim's prime.

And to top it all off we'll have enough cap room to take care of Manu next summer.

In the span of two weeks we have taken care of the three starting spots that were in need of shoring up for the rest of Tim's prime - center, SF, and 2G.

Damn, life sucks.

And as for Horry, we'll see what you're saying when he puts LA out of the playoffs next year with a three from the corner off a kickout from Tim.

AHF

[Ghost Writer]

We could've done moves like this each of the past three summers, Aggie.

:cooldevil

[bigzak25]

It's not about what the Spurs are doing, it's about what they didn't do or could've done.



actually, I think it is about what they are doing.
all else is water under the bridge, epecially coming off a championship. Unless the Spurs overlooked a DRob replacement that wanted to be a Spur, it's all arguments over nothing.

[Shaq H8ter]

I agree Aggie (oh shit I'm agreeing with an Aggie) unless we sign TMac in a year or two.
We will have a hard time getting someone better than Hedo. :spin



.... and no I'm not trying to compare Hedo to TMac so put your flamethrower down.

[ChumpDumper]

It's not about what the Spurs are doing
Silly us. I simply prefer discussing what the Spurs are doing and can do now.

The past is the past.

I could bitch every day about the draft and trades and every other misstep I believe the Spurs have made in the past 15 years, but I consider it a waste of time. Ultimatly none of our wayback scenarios can be proven so any such discussion always ends in an impasse.

I'm pretty excited about the potential of this Spur lineup, and would like to talk about it.

It's so hard to say goodbye to yesterday....

[Marcus Bryant]

You guys don't understand. Ghost has to be miserable about the Spurs in order for him to be happy. Of course he is going to continue to dream about his fantasies. It's the LEast Coast fan way. If the Spurs had a draft party he would be down in front bitching and booing as the Spurs drafted some kid from France back in 2001 and calling for Pop's head. He has to do that. Think dumbass Knick fan whenever you read a post by Ghost and it makes everything clear.

[gospurs21]

GW,
once again you are living in this delusional what if world?
Are you talking about the same Kenyon Martin that dissappeared in the 2 biggest games of his career (Finals game 5 and 6)? Yea, that guy is really good, I would say clutch.

everyone else,
why do you continuously feed this guy's delusional ways by argueing with him?

Let him think what he wants. Just nodd your head and move on.....who would really be harmed by this?

Go Spurs...

[Ghost Writer]

Ahhh... the simpleton biased homer take.

You guys could have testicular cancer and thank Pop you won't have to scratch your b@lls anymore.

Get a grip.

This is not the summer any of us hoped for.

:cooldevil

[T Park Num 9]

ignore him

and maybe the circle jerk will go away.


Only a moron would bitch about getting Mercer and Turoglu for nothing.


NOTHING!!!

Isnt this what you morons were bitching about when Sprewell got traded to the Wolves???

HERE IT IS!!!


Shut the **** up already.

[Ghost Writer]

Can someone please find something coherent is what T Ard Num Nuts just wrote?

His favorite player is gone now in favor of a Bird-Beak who lost his spot in the rotation to Jimmy friggin' Jackson.

Oh yeah... this summer is all it was cracked up to be.


Homers.

:cooldevil

[Nikos]

Ghost,

"Manny, do you really think Pop would let Artest go crazy like that idiot Thomas did and encouraged?"

Um HELLO? Ghost? POP could not control DENNIS RODMAN back in the mid 90s when POP was GM. As a matter of fact Rodman use to always say he didnt have any personal problems with the coach BOB HILL at the time but it was POPOVICH who thought he could tame DENNIS RODMAN at the time.

AND WE ALL KNOW how that turned out. They ended up trading Dennis Rodman for FUCKING Will Purdue. Thinking that Purdue and Rodmans departure made the SPURS a better TEAM.

What a joke. Artest is probably just as much of a psyco as Rodman was -- but Rodman proved he could be a GREAT ROLEPLAYER on a championship team. What the **** has Artest proven?

Sorry but Artest and Mercer in 2001 wouldn't guruntee shit.

Artest is a nice talent and has great intensity but he and POP WOULD NOT MIX.

[Spurminator]

This summer is not the Utopian Dream Superstar Summer some of us were hoping for.

But it hasn't been the Apocalyptic Disaster some of you have been bitching about ad nauseum.

I know moderate opinions aren't very fun to read, but I refuse to get bent out of shape about the fact that this summer did not meet my absolute highest wants. We're better than we were last year. We filled our holes. And we didn't shoot ourselves in the foot with a contract we'll regret in 5 years.

It's a B summer in my book. And that's enough to keep me excited about next year.

http://www.ooze.com/finger/assets/images/jcash.jpg

[Marcus Bryant]

Sure, we wanted to see the Spurs land a star. Yet they still had the flexibility to improve the team when that didn't pan out. At least they had the ability to make a serious play instead of being capped out and in danger of facing the lux tax like some genius here wanted.

[Admiral]

I like this trade, although I'm still failing to see how it's much different for the Smitty for Mercer and Artest deal. Although Marcus said it was made up, the Express-News article found here (http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlb=200&xlc=1029771) seems to contradict that:

The Spurs turned down a trade two seasons ago that would have landed them Mercer and Ron Artest when both were playing in Chicago.

Turkoglu is a solid player, but the homer posts on here about him are sickening. Nobody ever talked about how great he was with the Kings, but in this very thread we have seen people talk about us getting "our three man of the future" and "a rising star." Please, guys. I think he is obviously an upgrade over Ferry, and we did great to get both he and Mercer for nothing. But come on! Take off the black with silver tint sunglasses and be objective.

It's pathetic to defend Turkoglu by saying "but he played fewer minutes than Artest!" There is a reason why he played fewer minutes than Artest, and there is also a reason why the Kings were eager to throw him in a deal for a white center.

This is a nice move considering the circumstances, but it is hardly fulfills the Fantasy Summer of 2003 we were promised two years ago.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, there's a reason why Turkoglu played fewer minutes than Artest:

http://www.nba.com/media/act_predrag_stojakovic.jpg

Next.

[Admiral]

But if Turkoglu is as versatile as some people here claim, couldn't the Kings have fit him in somewhere else? After all, he's 6'10" and can play three, maybe four positions on the court. Right?

[Marcus Bryant]

The Kings were friggin stacked, Admiral. Have you seen him play, yes or no?

[Fizzzar]

but it is hardly fulfills the Fantasy Summer of 2003 we were promised two years ago.

Who promised what? :wtf

[Marcus Bryant]

The voices in his head, Fizzzar. The voices. :cooldevil

[T Park Num 9]

this is easily better than Artest and Mercer then because

A your not TRADING ANYONE

B You get a better player in Turoglu than Artest.

Turk is better just on the fact that hes not a nutcase.


Gotta hate those trades where you get something for nothin eh admiral?


Good post Fizzar, nothing was PROMISED. Lots was HOPED! NOTHING promised.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

But if Turkoglu is as versatile as some people here claim, couldn't the Kings have fit him in somewhere else? After all, he's 6'10" and can play three, maybe four positions on the court. Right?


Yeah, stupid Kings shoulda benched Webber to give this guy the starting job.

AHF

[Admiral]

T Park, I said that I liked this trade and that I thought it was a nice move considering the circumstances. Go back and reread my post above if you forgot.

Also, getting these guys without having to give up anything is essentially like trading Smitty would've been. We essentially traded Smitty for Mercer and Turkoglu, if you think about it.

Fizzzar, the homers are the ones who assured us of free agent signings galore this summer. You know, the same people who now claim that it was about "flexibility" and not superstars. Obviously, we all knew that winning the free agency sweepstakes was not a guarantee. That's why some of the more objective fans said that it was risky at best to hold out for free agent signings. That was the same discussion where we discussed free agency guaranteeing you nothing.

You're kidding yourself if you think that this whole plan was about anything but bringing in at least one superstar.

But back to the thread at hand, this was a great move. I just don't think Turkoglu is a rising superstar.

[Marcus Bryant]

Nobody assured anyone of anything. You are the one who must've told yourself that the Spurs would absolutely land a second superstar in free agency this summer. Blame yourself before anyone else here. Sure, the Spurs made a play for a second superstar in the summer that DRob retired. WTF is wrong with that? In the interim they developed young talent and now we see that they've added more and retained some flexibility to retain that talent. What more do you want?

[T Park Num 9]

Smitty for Mercer and Turkoglu is a STEAL beyond BELIEF.

Oh wait, guess ya gotta toss in Danny Ferry.

STill a huge steal.

[ShoogarBear]

Evidently the word "headcase" hits a blind spot on your retina. People who WATCH THE GAME know that Artest has some very real problems which got him suspended on more than one occasion and were very detrimental to his team.

Fascinating how when you lose an argument, you switch it to one which was never being made.

-The discussion was about who was the better BASKETBALL PLAYER. You KNEW this, because you tried to use stats to make your case.

-Having lost that, you now want to make it about his behavior. Guess what? IT'S NOT. I already said from jump street and repeatedly I didn't want Artest for those very reasons. Let's make it even easier on your psyche: YOU WIN THIS PART, OKAY?

There are lots of people who are more stable than Ron Artest. It doesn't make them better basketball players.

[Spursman]

Anybody that thinks that a Horrry for Ferry, and a Jackson for Turoglu and Mercer trads is bad, then they have to be freaking nuts.

[T Park Num 9]

prob is Shooga.


him being a mental case affects the TEAM AND his own game.


Hell how many games was he suspended last year?

Hes a Rodman without the gay hair.

Period.

[TwoHandJam]

Fascinating how when you lose an argument, you switch it to one which was never being made.

-The discussion was about who was the better BASKETBALL PLAYER. You KNEW this, because you tried to use stats to make your case.

-Having lost that, you now want to make it about his behavior. Guess what? IT'S NOT. I already said from jump street and repeatedly I didn't want Artest for those very reasons. Let's make it even easier on your psyche: YOU WIN THIS PART, OKAY?

There are lots of people who are more stable than Ron Artest. It doesn't make them better basketball players.
If I'm a good airline pilot but every once in a while I decide to buzz the control tower in a commercial airliner for a laugh, do you think this would make me better than an above average pilot who never does this? How long do you think I'd be employed?

Jesus are you that fucking blind? Last time I checked we were grounded in reality here. You just cannot ignore a player's warts. There is no winning "this part" of the argument. I don't care how great you think Artest is, if you consider the entire package he is not a better basketball player than Hedo, largely because of his mental deficiencies. Who cares if you surmise that he's a better basketball player during the grace period when he isn't insane? The fact is considering all the variables, he isn't the better player overall.
I've watched both Artest and Hedo play and Hedo's got just as much game except he didn't get the minutes on a super stacked Kings team where he had to take a backseat to Peja. Maybe his defense isn't at the level of Artest's yet but he's 6'10" and only 24 years old. I'm quite sure he'll get there.

[Admiral]

Nobody assured anyone of anything. You are the one who must've told yourself that the Spurs would absolutely land a second superstar in free agency this summer. -Marcus Bryant

More of this again? Marcus, how many times do I have to state that I realize that there were no guarantees with free agency? I was one of a handful of people two years ago who said that it was too risky to hold out for a max free agent. You pulled out the NO LIMIT ARMY COMMANDER screenname, put up a bunch of pics of souped-up cars, and told us how everyone would want to flock to San Antonio to play with Tim Duncan in a new arena. I hoped you were right, but logic and my gut told me otherwise.



Blame yourself before anyone else here. -Marcus Bryant

I'm not blaming anyone, Marcus. I just think it's humorous how some of us got blasted two years ago for being "negative" and doubting that the Spurs would sign a max free agent, and are now getting blasted this summer for being upset that nobody listened to us. Go figure.


Sure, the Spurs made a play for a second superstar in the summer that DRob retired. WTF is wrong with that? In the interim they developed young talent and now we see that they've added more and retained some flexibility to retain that talent. What more do you want? -Marcus Bryant

I feel great about our team, but our goals for the summer were not met. It's frustrating, and it should be for all that we invested. I think we did the best we could considering the situation, but in this case, effort did not equal results. The problem is that we weren't in control. How can you ensure your success when your future is left up to a bunch of fickle free agents?

I think we will contend for a title this year. In fact, I was one of few who said we could win the title this past year. So I don't need a lecture on optimism with respect to our team or anything else, but thanks anyway.

[Marcus Bryant]

There are no guarantees in free agency. I never said there were. Of course I am going to keep repeating that when you keep insinuating that I said something to the contrary. Damn.

As we have seen, just because you take a couple of shots at adding a franchise level player in free agency and don't bring in one, you can still improve your team. What the hell is wrong with that? I never expected the Spurs to sign anyone. I thought the chances were good, sure. Some of you calling this offseason a "failure" are a tad bit off the mark.

[Admiral]

There are no guarantees in free agency. I never said there were. Of course I am going to keep repeating that when you keep insinuating that I said something to the contrary. Damn. -Marcus Bryant

Good, so we can all stop telling each other that there were no guarantees this summer. That should decrease the number of posts on this board per day by at least 50. :lol


As we have seen, just because you take a couple of shots at adding a franchise level player in free agency and don't bring in one, you can still improve your team. What the hell is wrong with that? I never expected the Spurs to sign anyone. I thought the chances were good, sure. Some of you calling this offseason a "failure" are a tad bit off the mark. -Marcus Bryant

Nothing is wrong with trying, just don't mistake trying with succeeding. You're attempting to sell us on the effort, which was undoubtedly high. I'm telling you that it's not about effort, but results. I don't think that Nesterovic, Horry, Mercer, and Turkoglu are what anyone had in mind two years ago.

I think we have definitely improved our team in certain areas, but you and I choose to look at it two different ways. You choose to compare our current team to our team going into the summer, which is a very valid comparison. I choose to compare it to the team that we set our sights on achieving two years ago. As far as the plan is concerned, we failed. As far as building a team that can continue to play at a high level, we succeeded. Having Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, and Manu Ginobili as building blocks sure does help, though.

At least we can all look forward to some new faces on the roster, and hopefully to another title in 2003-2004. That is exciting. :fro

[Marcus Bryant]

What I and others here have attempted to explain is that just because they didn't get a second franchise player in free agency that doesn't mean that this team is headed to hell. Some of you don't seem able to understand this. Look, did the Spurs think they were guaranteed to get a star in free agency? No. So what do you think they thought? Well, if we don't get a star then we have the flexibility to still improve our team with other free agent signings and trades. And that's what they've done. Gnashing your teeth and whining like a Ghost because your favorite team just won the title and didn't land a second superstar in free agency is a bit silly and frankly, ignorant. I expect Ghost to have his Road to Damascus moment come next January or so and understand what just went down this week. But you are a wise young man, you should know better now.

[Admiral]

You are totally missing the point, Marcus. You're making way too many assumptions that are incorrect.

1. Winning the title is not related to how we fared in free agency this summer. Please stop acting like some of us are complaining about a title. That's stupid.

2. We're complaining because we failed this summer at bringing in a star to complement Tim Duncan. You were the ring leader in the movement to get Tim a star to play alongside (think Jason Kidd threads all throughout June), and you cited the front office as having the same desire. Too late to back out now.

3. You are in denial if you think that the Spurs didn't have tunnel vision with respect to signing a superstar this summer (namely, Jason Kidd). They weren't thinking about "flexibility" as the goal, although I'm sure they knew that would be the result if every superstar turned us down. Obviously the Spurs thought this through. We know they aren't stupid, but that doesn't mean we can't still disagree with their plan (or at least parts of it).

4. Nobody thinks we are screwed as a team. I have stated numerous times that I think we are in good shape. You seem to almost always overlook those comments.

5. The Spurs did a good job this summer recovering from all the rejection by superstar free agents. We made good deals considering the circumstances. We addressed some needs we had going into the summer. But we still didn't meet our goal of signing a star. And perhaps that's okay. Only time will tell.

[Ghost Writer]

Well put, Admiral. You are one of the few who "get it."

:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

3. You are in denial if you think that the Spurs didn't have tunnel vision with respect to signing a superstar this summer (namely, Jason Kidd). They weren't thinking about "flexibility" as the goal, although I'm sure they knew that would be the result if every superstar turned us down. Obviously the Spurs thought this through. We know they aren't stupid, but that doesn't mean we can't still disagree with their plan (or at least parts of it).


You are in denial if you think the Spurs front office thought that they were guaranteed an acquisition of a second superstar this summer. Think about what you are saying...that those people whose job it is to run this team did not think that there was the possibility that they wouldn't land any of them. I'm sorry, they don't need this spelled out to them as you do. What exactly is the worst thing that came from them making a play for a franchise player in free agency? They still were in a position to pursue the replacement for DRob that they wanted in the free agent market after the top two were unavailable.

Why shouldn't the Spurs take a run at talent like that this summer? Do you want them to play scared and assume that they cannot make a move like that? Don't you want them to do what they can to improve this team the most? I don't get it. As we've seen, they were in a position to make moves to improve the team after they couldn't sign a star in free agency.



They weren't thinking about "flexibility" as the goal, although I'm sure they knew that would be the result if every superstar turned us down.

The goal is to improve the team the best they could. That certainly starts with pursuing star free agents. If they don't get one, then they go from there. The 'flexibility' to improve the damn team was indeed their goal for this summer. They went after a star teammate for Duncan first. You are implying that these guys didn't think that one wouldn't come to SA. That is a dumbass argument on your part. These guys aren't naive people who know nothing about the business as you and Ghost seem to think.

I read these posts by Ghost and you and I wonder if you guys aren't Knicks or Hawks fans who stumbled onto this board by mistake.

[Marcus Bryant]

If the Spurs had "tunnel vision" with respect to signing a star wtf were they contacting lower tier free agents on day 1 of free agency? These guys have been through a NBA offseason before, not just sitting on a messageboard and writing circular love notes to themselves.

You guys are coming up with some rather lame arguments, Ghost and Ghost Jr.

[Ghost Writer]

:sleep

I doubt the Spurs would invest two years of clearing cap space if they were not reasonably confident that they would come away with a max free agent this summer.

:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

Ghost, the Front Office doesn't sit around and talk about "ballas" and needing "credible blacks as coaches" like you do. They knew full well what they were doing.

[Ghost Writer]

So they willing invested two years into clearing cap sapce for Nesterovic and Horry?


Question.


:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

Again, they went through their rebuilding strategy to develop young talent and to use their cap room to make runs at top talent and if they didn't land any stars then they would seek out the best available. That doesn't mean that they expected to land one. This is not hard to understand. I think you do, but then you wouldn't have anything to complain about all the damn time.

You forgot Turkoglu, BTW.

[Ghost Writer]

So they didn't expect to land a star?

Then they must've expected to clear cap space for two years to get what we got.

Brilliant.


:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

God you are so redundant it's pathetic. No they didn't "expect to land a star". They wanted to make a run at one and they thought they had a good chance, but they certainly did not "expect" nor "plan" that they would be signing a free agent star this summer. I'm sure they thought they had a good chance, but that doesn't mean they didn't understand that they might not be able to.

[Ghost Writer]

So they knew going in that they probably wouldn't land a star, but sacrificed two years to clear cap space anyway.

I just want to be crystal clear here.

:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

:rolleyes

They knew they had a shot so they took it. It didn't happen yet they were still able to find a replacement for David Robinson, which was the whole point.

[Ghost Writer]

Okay. I just wanted to understand why we cleared cap space for two seasons.

"THey knew they had a shot."


Harrrumph. Good enough for me.

:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

What exactly is your fucking problem? You rail against the Spurs' front office forever because they never made a play for a star in free agency. Then all of a sudden it becomes a problem when they do?

Also are you really that naive to think that they didn't know what they were doing? In case you haven't noticed the Spurs apparently know how to manage their cap situation fairly well, unlike some other teams.

As of now all you are offering is Monday morning quarterbacking. They had the "balls" to try to pair up Tim Duncan with another franchise player as his teammate during his prime. I'm glad they took that shot and I'm glad they weren't a pussy about it like you suddenly have become.

[Ghost Writer]

The way they went about making a play for a star was flawed. I told you years ago that the Spurs couldn't get a star to come here and play under his free will.

We needed to trade for one.

Or rely on another #1 lottery pick.

:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh so now it was "flawed" because they went through free agency? Right. You didn't seem to have a problem with them talking to Webber a couple of years ago though he was a free agent.

And for years before that you bitched about the Spurs not making plays on free agents daily during the offseason despite them being capped out.

[Ghost Writer]

You know d@mn well taht trading for players has been my preferred method of getting star talent.

Free agency requires too many things to go right, like the player actually wnating to come to SA.


:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah I like how suddenly you've had a conversion. You know damn well what you whined about like a little schoolgirl all those years. Hell yesterday you were still complaining about Webber in 2001.

[Ghost Writer]

Oaky. You got me.

I was a supporter of the Holt-ing Pattern all along.

I love doing nothing for two years in the hopes of landing a star free agent.

D@mn, you're good.


:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

No, you are just an idiot who will bitch about anything.

[Ghost Writer]

B1tch?

Because I don't pretend that we missed the mark this summer doesn't mean I am complaining.

:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

:lol

Um, ok.

[Ghost Writer]

And you're a homer who will ignore basic truths, revise the past, change facts, and revise his opinions to support whatever the company line is.

Kudos for your spinning abilities. Iraq could use a propagandist like you.

Have a solid weekend.

:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah Ghost I'm still waiting for that breakdown of the Spurs' cap #s from you. I'm still waiting to see if you can figure out if the Spurs renounced Jack or not. You bring no value to this board whatsoever. Get out of my sight.

[SPURSX3]

new here. anyway, my opinion of the trade is that it is very solid for the team. we well lose nothing in cap space for next summer - we WILL be able to re-sign Manu. it is a dissapointment to see Jax POSSIBLY leave us, I would like to see him continue to develop here, however i knnow he wants a long term deal, good luck Jax.

the way I see, it, this gives the spurs more "GO" muscle to take down the LA "SHOW" muscle. I mean lets face it, LA has no bench whatsoever, and if one of the four superfriends goes down due to injury or attitude, they will be sunk. PJ couldnt control Shaq and Kobe, no way will he control the four he has now.. the Spurs will have more firepower at every position (save the point guard spot unless we get a decent back up) to take on the lakers and beat them again next playoff season.

we can shop around for other free agents next summer and see what comes of it all. I wold hope that a second title for us would change some minds in the league to give SA a chance and want to play for us and be champs. we'll see.

the spurs may not even look into free agency next summer, we might try to re-sign some of our boys or trade again, we have a solid core, we could alway option to buy out Luis Scola's contract and bring him to the big leagues giving us another superb Argentinian player who has been compared to elton brand. at this point I like what the SPurs have done to keep us on top....

[timvp]

Good points, SpursX3.

Welcome to the forum.

[lefty]

Turkoglu>Artest

No question about it!!
:lol

[Lincoln]

Quit bumping shit

[Banzai]

Bumpy

[turkish spurs fan]

asdhjlkghöçfdsadfghjkjhgfd

[lakerhaterade]

:lol turkoglu

:lol Turkey