:lmao Obamacare :lmao

[Spurtacular]

https://khn.org/news/to-save-money-american-patients-and-surgeons-meet-in-cancun/

[Pavlov]

What's the Republican health care plan?

[Spurtacular]

What's the Republican health care plan?

Solid sperm shielding. Deflect right off.

[Pavlov]

Solid sperm shielding. Deflect right off.derp folds

[Spurtacular]

derp folds

Is this thread about Republicans having the answers?

Yes or no.

[Pavlov]

Is this thread about Republicans having the answers?

Yes or no.Since you admit they have no answers, how could it be about their having the answers?

lol derp

[Spurtacular]

Since you admit they have no answers, how could it be about their having the answers?

lol derp

Way to admit you're sperm shielding.

[Pavlov]

Way to admit you're sperm shielding.I've said before that Obamacare doesn't do anything to control costs.

Now what?

What do you want your government to do about it?

[Spurtacular]

I've said before that Obamacare doesn't do anything to control costs.


Yet you still needed to sperm shield for it. :lol

[Pavlov]

Yet you still needed to sperm shield for it. :lolNope.

I just repeated what I think about Obamacare.

Now what do you want your Trump to do about it?

[Spurtacular]

Yet you still needed to sperm shield for it. :lol


Nope.


No, you just want to?

[Spurtacular]

I just repeated what I think about Obamacare.

You stated a point on Obamacare; nothing has been repeated in this thread.

[ElNono]

I read about it a few days ago. This is what the lack of cost control looks like. Medical tourism has been a thing for a long time now and it’s just a symptom of a larger problem. Obamacare was certainly a missed opportunity to address it, tbh.

[Spurtacular]

I read about it a few days ago. This is what the lack of cost control looks like. Medical tourism has been a thing for a long time now and it’s just a symptom of a larger problem. Obamacare was certainly a missed opportunity to address it, tbh.

That wording almost gives it the appearance of a good-faith effort. Everyone knows it was a scam.

[Pavlov]

You stated a point on Obamacare; nothing has been repeated in this thread.Derp folds.

Forever.

lol derp

[Pavlov]

That wording almost gives it the appearance of a good-faith effort. Everyone knows it was a scam.What's the scam, derp?

Tell everyone everything you know about the scam!

[Pelicans78]

I read about it a few days ago. This is what the lack of cost control looks like. Medical tourism has been a thing for a long time now and it’s just a symptom of a larger problem. Obamacare was certainly a missed opportunity to address it, tbh.

Medicare for all isn’t the answer. It will just make things less efficient than what it is now.

[TheGreatYacht]

Mitt Romney Finally Takes Credit For Obamacare

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/10/23/451200436/mitt-romney-finally-takes-credit-for-obamacare

[Spurtacular]

What's the scam, derp?

Tell everyone everything you know about the scam!

Compulsory funneling of everyone's money based on vague promises. This isn't hard, sperm shield chump.

[Spurtacular]

Mitt Romney Finally Takes Credit For Obamacare

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/10/23/451200436/mitt-romney-finally-takes-credit-for-obamacare


After a backlash Thursday, Romney tried to walk that line again, posting on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/mittromney/posts/10153121019326121) that he still opposes Obamacare because "it has failed," "drove up premiums" and "took insurance away from people":

[ElNono]

That wording almost gives it the appearance of a good-faith effort. Everyone knows it was a scam.

It was a bad law that improved over the previous system, but nowhere far enough.

That said, it’s difficult enough to pass health legislation, tbh, that’s why I said missed opportunity...

[Spurtacular]

It was a bad law that improved over the previous system, but nowhere far enough.

That said, it’s difficult enough to pass health legislation, tbh, that’s why I said missed opportunity...

Absolutely not.

[Winehole23]

That wording almost gives it the appearance of a good-faith effort. Everyone knows it was a scam.If you go back ten years in this forum, you'll find El Nono and others were saying exactly the same thing: the ACA wasn't designed to control costs and wouldn't deliver affordable health care.

El Nono said it was shitty at the time; so did I.

[Winehole23]

Absolutely not.It contributed to a decreased rate of growth of healthcare costs and got more people insured.

By those two metrics it was a modest improvement over the status quo ante.

[TheGreatYacht]

Absolutely not.

It was good for those that had preexisting conditions and would otherwise be denied coverage but for the not so sick or the ones who didn't want insurance they got screwed with higher costs

[ElNono]

Absolutely not.

Of course it was an improvement vis a vis the previous system: mandatory coverage for pre-existing conditions, much wider access through government subsidies, etc.

That doesn't mean it's a good law. It's a bad law because despite the good intentions, it doesn't address the main problem with healthcare in America: spiraling, out of control costs for services and drugs.

[boutons_deux]

it doesn't address the main problem with healthcare in America: spiraling, out of control costs for services and drugs.

That was, and still is, IMPOSSIBLE, due to the $Bs for-profit health care has to defend its profits.

Dems had to write ACA, which written by a healthcare exec, so that for-profit health would not "Harry and Louise" ACA to death

iow, just another example of how the oligarchy always gets what it wants as it owns and operates the country for profit.

[ElNono]

That's the point boutons... it was a missed opportunity to pass comprehensive reform that does address that issue.

It's not impossible, it's just going to happen once the pressure on the population is unbearable, which is probably the worst part.

[boutons_deux]

It's not impossible

it's impossible. BigInsuance/healthcare OWNS too many Congress people, and The Squad plus crumbs isn't enough.

the only solution is to follow the example of the French and the Russians

[ElNono]

it's impossible. BigInsuance/healthcare OWNS too many Congress people, and The Squad plus crumbs isn't enough.

the only solution is to follow the example of the French and the Russians

Have a salad dressing named after the US?

[boutons_deux]

Have a salad dressing named after the US?

no, violent revolution, because the extreme power the oligarchy has now will not be yielded voluntarily, never has been.

The American Revolution against England was also a violent revolution against an oppressive, exploitative, corrupt power.

[Winehole23]

no, violent revolution, because the extreme power the oligarchy has now will not be yielded voluntarily, never has been.

The American Revolution against England was also a violent revolution against an oppressive, exploitative, corrupt power.So, which revolutionary cadre so you belong to?

[Spurtacular]

It contributed to a decreased rate of growth of healthcare costs and got more people insured.

By those two metrics it was a modest improvement over the status quo ante.

:lol "Decreased rate growth" as rates went up.

Also, :lol that you believe that, anyways.

[Spurtacular]

It was good for those that had preexisting conditions and would otherwise be denied coverage but for the not so sick or the ones who didn't want insurance they got screwed with higher costs

Sure, but it's a great lie that healthcare needed to be co-opted further to add that "more fair" option to the law. That was the propaganda point they needed; so, that anyone that argues against the scam can be demonized.

[Spurtacular]

It was good for those that had preexisting conditions and would otherwise be denied coverage but for the not so sick or the ones who didn't want insurance they got screwed with higher costs

Charging people exorbitant prices for services they don't need and use is much worse than the problems they purported to be solving. Scam is not strong language; scam is the technically correct language.

[Spurtacular]

Of course it was an improvement vis a vis the previous system: mandatory coverage for pre-existing conditions, much wider access through government subsidies, etc.

That doesn't mean it's a good law. It's a bad law because despite the good intentions, it doesn't address the main problem with healthcare in America: spiraling, out of control costs for services and drugs.

You can cherry pick stuff all you want; but it's overall a net negative while driving up prices. This was always its design. It didn't fail; it did what it set out to do, to make its benefactors much richer. The American people failed in allowing scammers to control them.

[Winehole23]

:lol "Decreased rate growth" as rates went up.

Also, :lol that you believe that, anyways.We went over this in another thread, I can link the support for the claim, which, translated into plain English, is that health care costs grew at a modestly lower rate after the passage of the ACA.

[Spurtacular]

We went over this in another thread, I can link the support for the claim, which, translated into plain English, is that health care costs grew at a modestly lower rate after the passage of the ACA.

I'm sure you got a bull shit source to post. You are clueless though.

[Winehole23]

I'm sure you got a bull shit source to post.You're standing on a bare assertion.

I'm no fan of the ACA, have spoken against it as an ineffective POS from the beginning, but it would be willful blindness to assert it wasn't a marginal improvement over what we had before.

[boutons_deux]

You're standing on a bare assertion.

I'm no fan of the ACA, have spoken against it as an ineffective POS from the beginning, but it would be willful blindness to assert it wasn't a marginal improvement over what we had before.

ACA had LOTS of positive effects.

Ms got health care saving 1000s? of lives,

hospitals required to publish prices,

junk plans were junked, etc, etc.

and yes, the rate of increase of health care did moderate somewhat.

[Millennial_Messiah]

US healthcare sucks.

Republican idea is just to privatize everything, get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare mktplace plans, etc

Why not just ditch federal healthcare and get a group plan? Almost every adult job has them; those that don't are like retail and restaurant jobs, and those are jobs for kids under 26 anyway who can be on their parents' plans.

[Millennial_Messiah]

We went over this in another thread, I can link the support for the claim, which, translated into plain English, is that health care costs grew at a modestly lower rate after the passage of the ACA.

no, they grew dramatically after the ACA implementation in 2013... doubled and even tripled and now quadrupled. Mainly because of the "pre existing conditions" clause meaning that EVERYONE, including young people with no health issues, had to foot the bill of already-sick people looking for new health insurance (which should be and used to be, fraud). I.e., socialism.

[Winehole23]

It's not contested that health care costs continued to grow after the passage of the ACA, but the rate of growth moderated.

[Thread]

It's not contested that health care costs continued to grow after the passage of the ACA, but the rate of growth moderated.

Please. The profession just fanned the increases further throughout their system. "Here's what we'll do..."

[spurraider21]

:lol "Decreased rate growth" as rates went up.

Also, :lol that you believe that, anyways.
why is that so unbelievable to you?

rates increased. the rate at which they increased was lower than the it was pre ACA

[Winehole23]

Please. The profession just fanned the increases further throughout their system. "Here's what we'll do..."Pure handwaving.

Me and El Nono are critics of the ACA, but that doesn't mean we just get to make stuff up, like one does to suit one's political indoctrination.

[Spurtacular]

You're standing on a bare assertion.

I'm no fan of the ACA, have spoken against it as an ineffective POS from the beginning, but it would be willful blindness to assert it wasn't a marginal improvement over what we had before.

My rates shot way up. I know whatever info you think you have is bull shit.

[Spurtacular]

why is that so unbelievable to you?

rates increased. the rate at which they increased was lower than the it was pre ACA

Because my rates astronomically shot up; and I know propaganda when I see it.

[spurraider21]

Because my rates astronomically shot up; and I know propaganda when I see it.
a) and your rates were perfectly constant in the years before ACA?

b) even if your post is taken at face value, you need to learn what statistics are

[Spurtacular]

a) and your rates were perfectly constant in the years before ACA?

b) even if your post is taken at face value, you need to learn what statistics are

I know what statistics are. And that's why I highly doubt that my situation was some grand anomaly. I called newspapers at the time, but none of your Democrat rags had any interest in reporting on the great scam.

[Winehole23]

My rates shot way up. I know whatever info you think you have is bull shit.What I said ian't inconsistent with your case.

Surely you're aware of the difference between a statistical aggregate and an individual, no?

[spurraider21]

Surely you're aware of the difference between a statistical aggregate and an individual, no?

evidently not


I know what statistics are. And that's why I highly doubt that my situation was some grand anomaly. I called newspapers at the time, but none of your Democrat rags had any interest in reporting on the great scam.
"if it happened to me, it must have been the norm"

[Spurtacular]

evidently not


Nice one, philo.

Did I ever say my argument was based upon statistical analysis?

The numbers are bull shit. It was always gonna jump. Obama went from routinely calling healthcare one-sixth of the national economy to twenty percent (one-fifth) right in in the middle of his campaign. His handlers got in his ear and told him straight-up, we're jacking this shit up, don't undersell it.

[Spurtacular]

"if it happened to me, it must have been the norm"

It was clear to me that there was a concerted effort to not rock the boat. The newspapers didn't care. My insurance commissioner straight up lied about the matter when I contacted him. I don't want to hear bull shit about rate increases decreasing (which isn't a stat to brag about in the first place).

[spurraider21]

Nice one, philo.

Did I ever say my argument was based upon statistical analysis?

The numbers are bull shit. It was always gonna jump. Obama went from routinely calling healthcare one-sixth of the national economy to twenty percent (one-fifth) right in in the middle of his campaign. His handlers got in his ear and told him straight-up, we're jacking this shit up, don't undersell it.
if wasn't based on stats. that's why it's not taken seriously. you can either sit there and consider the anecdotes of each of the 300 million people in the US, or you can use statistics to make better decisions


It was clear to me that there was a concerted effort to not rock the boat. The newspapers didn't care. My insurance commissioner straight up lied about the matter when I contacted him. I don't want to hear bull shit about rate increases decreasing (which isn't a stat to brag about in the first place).
of course it is. its represents an objective improvement to what was the status quo

[Spurtacular]

if wasn't based on stats. that's why it's not taken seriously.

You think I didn't look at other plans when my rates skyrocketed? They were all jumping. That's how I know that whatever data that blakehole is hanging his hat on is complete and utter bull shit. You don't think entities aren't paid to sell bull shit narratives? It's not like there aren't plenty of stories out there about rates doubling and tripling. Give me a break, philo. You believe what you want to believe.

[Spurtacular]

of course it is. its represents an objective improvement to what was the status quo

I got fucked over a little less is objective improvement? I honestly don't care either way, cos I know it's bull shit. Rates skyrocketed. I experienced it firsthand. I don't need to hear some corporate bull shit that you're clinging to for the sake of your own political expediency.

[spurraider21]

I got fucked over a little less is objective improvement? I honestly don't care either way, cos I know it's bull shit. Rates skyrocketed. I experienced it firsthand. I don't need to hear some corporate bull shit that you're clinging to for the sake of your own political expediency.
that would be one anecdote

thats not how data works, and not how decisions are to be made

[Spurtacular]

that would be one anecdote

thats not how data works, and not how decisions are to be made

Data gets manipulated (or outright ignored) all the time, Chump Lite. IIRC, blakehole's source was someone with a vested interest to sell a narrative. I was where the rubber hit the road; I know it's a bull shit narrative. It just doesn't suit your political narrative is all.

[spurraider21]

Data gets manipulated (or outright ignored) all the time, Chump Lite. IIRC, blakehole's source was someone with a vested interest to sell a narrative. I was where the rubber hit the road; I know it's a bull shit narrative. It just doesn't suit your political narrative is all.
what source are you referring to?

[Spurtacular]

what source are you referring to?

He can post it; I don't save his propaganda.

[ElNono]

You can cherry pick stuff all you want; but it's overall a net negative while driving up prices. This was always its design. It didn't fail; it did what it set out to do, to make its benefactors much richer. The American people failed in allowing scammers to control them.

It was a measurable net positive compared to the previous system, anecdotes notwithstanding. Which is the main reason politicos have a hard time replacing it (as much as conservatives hate Barrycare, it turned out to be fairly popular, considering the sign up numbers).

We’re still talking about a shit sandwich because due to unchecked escalating costs, it’s just as expensive as the previous system, is still largely tied to employment, etc etc etc

[spurraider21]

He can post it; I don't save his propaganda.
You dont even know what the source is, but you know it's progaganda and somebody with a vested interest to sell a narrative... because it's not favorable to your worldview. Got it.

[Spurtacular]

You dont even know what the source is, but you know it's progaganda and somebody with a vested interest to sell a narrative... because it's not favorable to your worldview. Got it.

He posted it a while back in another thread; I made the determination of it being BS at that time.

[Spurtacular]

It was a measurable net positive compared to the previous system, anecdotes notwithstanding. Which is the main reason politicos have a hard time replacing it (as much as conservatives hate Barrycare, it turned out to be fairly popular, considering the sign up numbers).

We’re still talking about a shit sandwich because due to unchecked escalating costs, it’s just as expensive as the previous system, is still largely tied to employment, etc etc etc

It was propaganda; cherry-picked #'s if even that. If the numbers were what Blakehole claims, I would've switched plans; they weren't.

[spurraider21]

He posted it a while back in another thread; I made the determination of it being BS at that time.
its BS because you don't like it

[ElNono]

It was propaganda; cherry-picked #'s if even that. If the numbers were what Blakehole claims, I would've switched plans; they weren't.

You have no basis to say that. Again, coverage of pre-existing conditions is not arguable. Signup numbers are not arguable either. They’re measurable facts.

Whether your particular premium went up or not is immaterial to the overall argument. We’re not discussing feelings.

[Pavlov]

derp accuses other of cherry picking while his only "evidence" is his single, lonely cherry.

[ElNono]

And saying Barrycare was an upgrade in the overall, doesn’t mean it was good. It wasn’t.

[Spurtacular]

its BS because you don't like it

It's BS cos I paid a lot of money, and I know that it's BS.

[Spurtacular]

You have no basis to say that. Again, coverage of pre-existing conditions is not arguable. Signup numbers are not arguable either. They’re measurable facts.

Whether your particular premium went up or not is immaterial to the overall argument. We’re not discussing feelings.

Of course I do. I checked out the market and saw the skyrocketing rates across the board.

[Spurtacular]

And saying Barrycare was an upgrade in the overall, doesn’t mean it was good. It wasn’t.

I understand that distinction; but it wasn't an upgrade overall. It was a monumental scam; of course it wasn't an upgrade.

[ElNono]

Of course I do. I checked out the market and saw the skyrocketing rates across the board.

But rates going up the first year doesn’t mean it was worse than previous. It was actually expected, considering you were getting better coverage. Rates alone, however, are not a measure. You got a lot of people that couldn’t enlist before now getting coverage with subsidies, both due to cost and pre-existing conditions.

The idea was that once the pools grew, year to year increases would come down, which is what Winehole correctly mentions that happened (it did). The problem is that the overall costs are too high, and the law did nothing about that.

[ElNono]

double post

[spurraider21]

It's BS cos I paid a lot of money, and I know that it's BS.
right. the statistics are BS because of your anecdotal evidence

which is not how the world operates

[Spurtacular]

right. the statistics are BS because of your anecdotal evidence

which is not how the world operates

You can hang your hat on fake stats. I wouldn't expect you to not do so in this instance, tbh.

[Spurtacular]

But rates going up the first year doesn’t mean it was worse than previous.

They skyrocketed in the wake of Obamacare getting passed and in the months leading to the implementation. They weren't skyrocketing before that. I know what I saw and experienced.

[spurraider21]

You can hang your hat on fake stats. I wouldn't expect you to not do so in this instance, tbh.
and your belief that the stats are fake comes from your personal anecdotal evidence

[ElNono]

They skyrocketed in the wake of Obamacare getting passed and in the months leading to the implementation. They weren't skyrocketing before that. I know what I saw and experienced.

Again, the argument isn’t about feels or anecdotes. And, again also, the healthcare equation isn’t just about premiums. People that didn’t have insurance would end up in a hospital, which would in turn bill the government for it. So you were still paying for that even if it wasn’t reflected in your premium.

This isn’t a defense of Obamacare, but what was before was simply much worse. Not only it segregated a good chunk of people that needed care the most, it didn’t control costs either, pricing out most people or straight up bankrupting them.

Perhaps even worse, it perpetrated that ‘choice’ was a codeword for substandard care.

[Spurtacular]

and your belief that the stats are fake comes from your personal anecdotal evidence

And my survey of the market at that time. Your belief comes from you'll take whatever fake stats the establishment puts piping hot on your plate.

[Spurtacular]

Again, the argument isn’t about feels or anecdotes. And, again also, the healthcare equation isn’t just about premiums. People that didn’t have insurance would end up in a hospital, which would in turn bill the government for it. So you were still paying for that even if it wasn’t reflected in your premium.

This isn’t a defense of Obamacare, but what was before was simply much worse. Not only it segregated a good chunk of people that needed care the most, it didn’t control costs either, pricing out most people or straight up bankrupting them.

Perhaps even worse, it perpetrated that ‘choice’ was a codeword for substandard care.

It's not feels or anecdotes. I took the temperature of the market. It's not at all what blakehole purports. And the bought and paid for media had no interest in doing their jobs. This is why Trump won. It wasn't because Obamacare "was actually an improvement". :lmao

[Blake]

It's not feels or anecdotes.

That is literally the textbook definition of what you have here, anecderp

[Spurtacular]

That is literally the textbook definition of what you have here, anecderp

Not at all. I studied prices; they were all skyrocketing. The only thing I didn't do was document it for future ST discussion; sorry but that was never a priority, cuck.

[ElNono]

It's not feels or anecdotes. I took the temperature of the market.

This is an oxymoron.

[ElNono]

What you ‘studied’ wholly involves you, thus it’s an anecdote. Present your study so it can be peer reviewed and compared to other peer reviewed studies. You don’t get to say it’s right coz you did it.

[Spurtacular]

This is an oxymoron.

Astronomic rate increases everywhere I looked. You and Lite are good examples of why fake news works.

[Blake]

Astronomic rate increases everywhere I looked. You and Lite are good examples of why fake news works.

Yeah where "you" looked. That's an anecdote. You're an idiot.

[Spurtacular]

Yeah where "you" looked. That's an anecdote. You're an idiot.

Did you miss the astronomic part? Did you miss the part that there are articles on this happening to others?

Sorry, but your shit is FAKE NEWS.

[Blake]

Did you miss the astronomic part? Did you miss the part that there are articles on this happening to others?

Sorry, but your shit is FAKE NEWS.

Oh "astronomic"! That means it's not an anecdote now!

Seriously, nobody can have a discussion with you because you don't understand simple terms and simple logic.

Get back to work on researching me.

[Spurtacular]

Oh "astronomic"! That means it's not an anecdote now!

Seriously, nobody can have a discussion with you because you don't understand simple terms and simple logic.

Get back to work on researching me.

Plenty of stuff out there about people's rates more than tripling.

:lmao Cuck's FAKE NEWS.

[Blake]

Plenty of stuff out there about people's rates more than tripling.

:lmao Cuck's FAKE NEWS.

It's your fake news, anecderp. You're literally retarded.

[Spurtacular]

It's your fake news. You're literally retarded.

Simple math; if plenty of people are having there rates double and triple, then the idea that rate increases are decreasing is preposterous.

Cucks like their very fake news, though. I don't blame you for being who you are, dude.

[ElNono]

Astronomic rate increases everywhere I looked. You and Lite are good examples of why fake news works.

It's not personal, it's just that "I saw this" is not a representative sample of anything. Come on son, this isn't too difficult.

You can hate Barrycare all you want, and you can opine that it's worse than what was there before, both valid opinions, but what amounts to "trust me" is not a counter argument, especially since outside of the claim that "I've studied it", there's really no authority in that claim.

And, again, there's a number of measuring sticks for how 'good' a given healthcare system is: affordability, access, coverage, quality of care, etc. Drawing conclusions from just one prong is misleading at best, IMO.

When you say premiums for those already covered went up, ok, that's very likely, but we also added up a lot of people that were deemed uninsurable before (access), families subsidized who could now get insurance (affordability), a more robust baseline coverage that didn't require extra expensive riders (coverage), all the while quality of care remaining just about the same.

Your position is actually a great example of why Fake News work. If you're legitimately interested in the topic, you would take the time to inform yourself, come up with facts when having this discussion, and backup material. It's both intellectually honest, and a great way to reflect on our own prejudices by actively challenging them. Fake News festers on ignorance and ideologues.

I've posted extensively about my dislike for ACA, even all the way back when it was voted, not going to rehash that here, posts are available for those that want to look.

[Spurtacular]

It's not personal, it's just that "I saw this" is not a representative sample of anything. Come on son, this isn't too difficult.


Lite mentioned statistics. If there's stories out there of people's rates tripling, then what do you think the odds are of rate increases decreasing? Come on now.

[Spurtacular]

You can hate Barrycare all you want

I do hate that scam. It tripled my rates while giving no additional value. You seem to shrug it off and pretend I'm crazy cos it doesn't fit the propaganda you're slurping. It's cool by me though; to each his own.

[Pavlov]

Lite mentioned statistics. If there's stories out there of people's rates tripling, then what do you think the odds are of rate increases decreasing? Come on now.representative sample

Jesus, derp. Ask you mom what this means.

[Spurtacular]

representative sample

Jesus, derp. Ask you mom what this means.

:lmao Chump with the lash-out chime-in.
:lmao Par.

[ElNono]

Lite mentioned statistics. If there's stories out there of people's rates tripling, then what do you think the odds are of rate increases decreasing? Come on now.

SR21 is correct in pointing out that, statistically, anecdotes are irrelevant. You're also stuck in rates, and you keep saying "double-triple!" but continue to provide zero foundation for it. "I heard it on Fox N Friends" is not evidence of anything. Let's look at some of the numbers, where they come from, what they measure, etc. IIRC, at least Winehole provided the study with source and everything.


I do hate that scam. It tripled my rates while giving no additional value. You seem to shrug it off and pretend I'm crazy cos it doesn't fit the propaganda you're slurping. It's cool by me though; to each his own.

I hate it with a passion too, but for different reasons. The real risk is pretending that what was before it was any better, because then we fall back into the same trap. It wasn't. Services and drugs were just as expensive, it excluded or priced out a ton of people, it bankrupted families, it allowed policies with substandard care. Talk about a scam.

FWIW, Medical tourism, the topic in the OP, predates Barrycare by a good amount of years. Bloated healthcare prices in the US are nothing new, and nothing that the ACA really addressed. It's unsurprising to see it continue. Potentially even grow, because we're still not addressing costs.

[Spurtacular]

SR21 is correct in pointing out that, statistically, anecdotes are irrelevant.

Not really. I'm not a statistician; but there were advanced problems based upon sort of a reverse-engineering where you'd be given the variations or "anomalies" and you'd have to calculate the probability of a mean being in a certain range. Sorry, but the odds of having a situation where rates are tripling and the overall rates still decreasing on the average is pretty much unheard of. You're subscribing to FAKE NEWS.

[Pavlov]

Not really. I'm not a statistician; but there were advanced problems based upon sort of a reverse-engineering where you'd be given the variations or "anomalies" and you'd have to calculate the probability of a mean being in a certain range. Sorry, but the odds of having a situation where rates are tripling and the overall rates still decreasing on the average is pretty much unheard of. You're subscribing to FAKE NEWS.:lmao

[Spurtacular]

I hate it with a passion too, but for different reasons. The real risk is pretending that what was before it was any better, because then we fall back into the same trap. It wasn't. Services and drugs were just as expensive, it excluded or priced out a ton of people, it bankrupted families, it allowed policies with substandard care. Talk about a scam.


That's frankly many of my reasons.

[Spurtacular]

:lmao


awww, you want attention?

WHOS A GOOD BOY. WHOS A GOOD BOY

https://media3.giphy.com/media/xT5LMv9pCECkZzx4Tm/giphy.gif

[ElNono]

Not really. I'm not a statistician; but there were advanced problems based upon sort of a reverse-engineering where you'd be given the variations or "anomalies" and you'd have to calculate the probability of a mean being in a certain range. Sorry, but the odds of having a situation where rates are tripling and the overall rates still decreasing on the average is pretty much unheard of. You're subscribing to FAKE NEWS.

You don't need to be a statistician to know that a sample of 1 in ~200 million (I'm being generous here) is largely irrelevant. That sample contributes 0.000000005% to the 'odds' you mention.

Still looking for a source that shows rates 'tripling' nationwide. You can't provide it because it hasn't happened. Again, it might've happened to you in your district, but it's not representative of the nation as a whole.

[ElNono]

That's frankly many of my reasons.

Well, then, let's not shoot ourselves in the foot again and don't go back there.

We're going to need to have a discussion as a nation whether healthcare needs to be something more than great business for a few, tbh. I keep bringing this up every time we discuss healthcare.

Even Trump's threats to import cheaper medicine from overseas is a heavy handed shot at that problem. The realistic solution is through legislation. Unlike boutons, I don't think it's impossible. I do think enough pressure has to mount (and it sucks that pressure means suffering for a lot of people).

[boutons_deux]

" Bloated healthcare prices in the US are nothing new, and nothing that the ACA really addressed. It's unsurprising to see it continue."

not surprising at all.

A huge majority of politicians, both parties, are corrupted by BigHealthCare, so politics will not kill the excess of $1T+ / year that Americans pay for health care.

[Spurtacular]

You don't need to be a statistician to know that a sample of 1 in ~200 million (I'm being generous here) is largely irrelevant.

Did I say it was one? GTFO

Also, it's nowhere 200 million types of plans.

But if we are going with 200 million (based on consumer), then :lol at you believing I am the only one with that type of plan.

[TheGreatYacht]

" Bloated healthcare prices in the US are nothing new, and nothing that the ACA really addressed. It's unsurprising to see it continue."

not surprising at all.

A huge majority of politicians, both parties, are corrupted by BigHealthCare, so politics will not kill the excess of $1T+ / year that Americans pay for health care.



The solution tbh...


https://youtu.be/aJ1ZKryzAgk

[koriwhat]

The solution tbh...


https://youtu.be/aJ1ZKryzAgk

bernie has no real solutions... you've just bought into his madness is all. with that said, you're following a zionist as you hate on zionists here. :lmao

[koriwhat]

ps: i trust no man who can't keep his bottom lip up. fuck 2face bernout!

[TheGreatYacht]

bernie has no real solutions... you've just bought into his madness is all. with that said, you're following a zionist as you hate on zionists here. :lmao

He's a good Jew tbh. He put Bibi in his place the other day

[koriwhat]

He's a good Jew tbh. He put Bibi in his place the other day

lol a good jew who wants to turn our country into a shithole with his communistic outlook. you're def brainwashed like the losers i met in LA.

[ElNono]

Did I say it was one? GTFO

Also, it's nowhere 200 million types of plans.

But if we are going with 200 million (based on consumer), then :lol at you believing I am the only one with that type of plan.

No, there's ~200 million people insured. You and your anecdote is 1 in 200 million, that was what was pointed out.

There's all sorts of plans based on family size, income, and premiums are also all over. In some states premiums went down, not up.

Again, that's why studies like those done by the HHS, Kaiser, etc will always trump "but I saw it with my own eyes"

[Spurtacular]

No, there's ~200 million people insured. You and your anecdote is 1 in 200 million, that was what was pointed out.


Clearly, I wouldn't be the only one in 200 million with my plan.

And I stated that it was more than my plan, anyhow. Rates of plans aren't doubling and tripling and rates on average decreasing. That's fucking asinine. You're proof that fake news works.

[ElNono]

Clearly, I wouldn't be the only one in 200 million with my plan.

And I stated that it was more than my plan, anyhow. Rates of plans aren't doubling and tripling and rates on average decreasing. That's fucking asinine. You're proof that fake news works.

To make a claim your plan is representative of anything, then you have to back it up. Give us some numbers, how representative is your plan over the ~200 million people insured?

You keep talking and not backing anything you say. Already asked for the evidence of rates tripling nationwide. That's fake news.

If you don't know, just say you don't know, it's a perfectly fine position to have. No need to make shit up because "feelings".

And BTW, nobody claimed the rates were going down on the overall. The claim was that the rates are going up on a lesser percentage year to year than before ACA was established.

There wouldn't be anything asinine about that. Uninsured people were reduced from ~11% to ~4% of the population, that's about 12 million people. On any insurance system, the larger the pool the more spread out the cost.

The issue is that without controlling the actual service/drug costs, and those raising faster than inflation while wages do not, you'll continue to have more and more unaffordable care as time goes by. That's a problem both ACA and it's predecessor have.

[Spurtacular]

To make a claim your plan is representative of anything, then you have to back it up. Give us some numbers, how representative is your plan over the ~200 million people insured?


That's a philo. My plan isn't representative of 200 million. The rates shot up. And if I had found that somehow wasn't against the trend, I would've switched plans. You're proof that fake news works.

[Pavlov]

That's a philo. My plan isn't representative of 200 million. The rates shot up. And if I had found that somehow wasn't against the trend, I would've switched plans. You're proof that fake news works.:lol still not getting it after being spoon fed for days.

[Spurtacular]

:lol still not getting it after being spoon fed for days.

Blake Zero doing chime ins. Par.

[Pavlov]

Blake Zero doing chime ins. Par.I don't know what more needs to be said tbh.

You're completely and undeniably wrong. You have your one anecdote and that's nothing, statistically speaking. You were spoon fed this by one of the smartest and most patient posters on this site, and all you can do is say MUH ANECDOTE.

lol derp

[Spurtacular]

I don't know what more needs to be said tbh.

You're completely and undeniably wrong. You have your one anecdote and that's nothing, statistically speaking. You were spoon fed this by one of the smartest and most patient posters on this site, and all you can do is say MUH ANECDOTE.

lol derp

Lashing out. Par.

[Blake]

Derp mode activated

[Psychopav Chump]

Derp mode activated

Atta boy, lil cuck buddy.

[Blake]

Alt mode activated. Derp is finished here.

[Spurtacular]

Alt mode activated. Derp is finished here.

You're on a roll, cuck.

[Pavlov]

Lashing out. Par.
No, I simply said you are completely wrong.

Look at you lashing out at everyone who knows you're wrong and says so.

You can't handle it.

[Spurtacular]

Chump ranting. Par.

[Pavlov]

Chump ranting. Par.Nope, just saying you're completely wrong.

Sorry.

[Blake]

It's like derp speaks English but he somehow uses a different dictionary than everyone else where words mean completely different things.

[Spurtacular]

It's like derp speaks English but he somehow uses a different dictionary than everyone else where words mean completely different things.

Chucho impressions from the forum cuck.

:rollin

[Pavlov]

Chucho impressions from the forum cuck.

:rollinderp lashing out

[Winehole23]

It's like derp speaks English but he somehow uses a different dictionary than everyone else where words mean completely different things.The propounder of derptionary submissions is irrefutable, self-dubbed.

Contrary to all appearances, the conversation never started, Derp-mind comes to a full stop at the period and does not even reflect on what it just said.

[Spurtacular]

https://www.studyfinds.org/seeing-is-believing-fake-news-may-lead-to-false-memories-voter-study-finds/

[Winehole23]

https://www.studyfinds.org/seeing-is-believing-fake-news-may-lead-to-false-memories-voter-study-finds/You're walking, breathing proof of it.

[Spurtacular]

You're walking, breathing proof of it.

I'm the opposite, blakehole. I saw the rate hikes and didn't make up fake memories to coincide with the fake news.

[Pavlov]

MUH ANECDOTE

[Spurtacular]

**

[Chris]

BREAKING: A federal appeals court has just ruled the Obamacare individual mandate to be unconstitutional.

[Spurtacular]

BREAKING: A federal appeals court has just ruled the Obamacare individual mandate to be unconstitutional.

:tu

[spurraider21]

:lol supreme court already said it was

[boutons_deux]

The kind of destructive rulings politicized Repug judges, eg ABA-unqualified Priscilla Owen of the 5th Circuit, America will be getting for decades.

Thanks, shithole Texas run by shitbag "no Medicaid for you!" Repugs.