Summer went TOTALLY to plan.

[T Park Num 9]

Hear me out peeps.

I think lots of people had there own Idea for how this summer shoulda gone.

But I think according to senor CIA, it went TOTALLY to plan.

Hear me out.


Pop IMO I dont think, believes in the TWO star system.
His past coaching proves it. David when Duncan came took a lesser role, but pop lessened it more and more every year, till he became a tall block Bruce Bowen.

SO he goes into this summer to get, heres the key word childwen, COMP players (short for complimentary).

You may say whoa whoa whoa. Kidd is a second star.

IS HE?? THink about it, whats he do, doesnt shoot, he PASSES, runs the BREAK, sets up other players.
His a big ass comp player.
PJ Brown, comp playa.
Nesterovic, big ass comp playa.
Turk and Ronny, comp and comp.


Pop is believeing IMO in the Bulls system.

One big ass star, 11 complimentary players that fit and comoplimetn that one big star PERFECTLY, and thats how you win.

Lakers won BY, Shaq being the star and Kobe complimenting him.

We won last year by, Duncan dominating, and Jack, Parker, speedy, and others COMPLIMENTING Duncan.

THis summer was all about upgrading the team and popdamn sure they did.

But it wasnt all about a SECOND star. It was about upgrading the system meaning, upgrading the comp players.


Its not that we failed this summer, but if your lookin through Pop's CIA brain? This summer was a blockbusta.

If they sign Kenny Anderson??? The pop vision continues.

Bash away......

[MannyIsGod]

Kenny Anderson sucks, I'd much rather have a young player with talent sit on the IR. If worse comes to worse we can always go out and get a FA pg in the season if parker should choke on his own foot. Thats his biggest risk for an injury right now.

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs have added more skilled offensive players to this team. I'm glad to see that for Duncan's sake. We'll have to see if Parker or Turkoglu can develop into that second scorer.

The Spurs can field a team of Parker/Manu/Turkoglu/TD/Nesterovic with all 4 of TD's teammates on the floor being guys who can shoot, drive, and pass. That is going to help this team put points on the board.

I do think the Spurs certainly wanted to improve the offense long term. This Euro-style offense should help free things up for TD.

[Admiral]

I think you're onto something here, T Park. It makes a lot of sense given Pop's history. He certainly seemed to dismiss the idea of David and Tim being co-stars, and that was when David was an All-Star and 20/10 guy. I am interested to hear what others here think as well.

I totally disagree with you about Kenny Anderson, Manny. The dude can play. I take it you didn't see him play much when he was at Georgia Tech and with New Jersey early in his career. He is arguably as good as Parker is now, if you ask me. That would be a huge coup if we could sign him as our backup point guard.

The fact that you would rather have a scrub on the IR instead speaks volumes about your basketball knowledge.

[Shaq H8ter]

Did I ever mention I hate phrases "star" and "super star". :rolleyes

I think this crap started in Hollywood with Shaq's lame music and movies and it's infected all forms of media.
The phrases are so closely related to the media and everything that's bad with the game. :cuss


"Oh the Lakers are unbeatable because they have two SUPER STARS !"
"GRAAAAAH...Fv<k OFF!!" :flipoff

"Tony's not a Super Star get Kidd!"
"GRAAAAAH...Fv<k OFF!!" :flipoff

"Oh the Lakers are unbeatable because they have four SUPER STARS !"
"GRAAAAAH...Fv<k OFF!!" :flipoff

"Lebron James is a rising Super Star!"
"GRAAAAAH...Fv<k OFF!!" :flipoff

"Super Star" is a dumb and ignorant phrase to define players!
It's like all dumb and ignorant phrases such as Cracker, Chink and Nig.. well you know.
It's usually used to hide a lack of knowledge or effort to characterize a person.
Used and thrown away like so much tissue and why not it's cheap!

:pc2 :gun

I'm sorry ...
I'll calm down now... :drunk
This isn't a dig on anyone here ...

go back to talking about the summer plan


So how about Hedo he has a lot of potential! :rollin

[timvp]

I like the way the summer ended, but I don't think this is what they planned on going into it.

Kidd
O'Neal
Brand
Brown
Malone

You can make a case for each of those players being higher on the wish list than the players the Spurs ended up with.

But sometimes things turn out for the better. I think the Spurs are happy with Rasho, Hedo and Horry. Those are three solid players who they've wanted at varying degrees. Now added potential role players in Mercer and whoever they get for a backup PG and this could be a success.

:cooldevil

[T Park Num 9]

So no one believes that pop DOESNT believe in the two star system.


Him not adding a star with a trade and not adding a star this summer, proves to me he believes in the one star system.


How do you guys think he doesnt???











Question

[Marcus Bryant]

First off I disagree with the assumption that this summer "went as planned" or it "did not go as planned." Sure the Spurs had a strategy when they entered this summer to pursue selected free agents. But to imply that they expected to sign a Kidd, JO'Neal, or Brand is incorrect. The front office is not run by messageboard bullshitters who are jonesing for "ballas", they know that there are no guarantees in reality. If a star free agent had decided to sign with them then they would've taken that and then made moves based on that player joining the team. I'm not going to believe some crack induced conspiracy theory that had the Spurs pursuing Kidd just to provide cover for other moves or keep the Spurs on the down low this summer.

The expectation this summer was that they would be able to shape this team around Duncan in light of DRob's retirement. That is what is happening. They went after the best talent available. When that didn't materialize they adjusted accordingly. So far I haven't seen they make a mistake in what they have signed the players they have for nor in the trade of friggin' cap space (aka Danny Ferry) for Turkoglu. I think the major problem is that fans expected them to sign a second franchise player. That isn't easy but at least they had the ability and the nuts to make a run. Now we see that they were able to add talent and retain the flexibility to keep this team intact next year. What happens with Jack remains to be seen but I would expect him back unless someone (ie Denver) gives him a ridiculous offer.

They didn't even have to give up draft picks (especially the Suns & Grizz picks) in that trade for Turkoglu. Good stuff.

If Spurs fans want to bitch about a NBA front office go unload on the Knicks, Warriors, or Pacers.

[Temple Of The Dog]

the summer went according to plan, huh? you're out of your mind... first of all, the number of quality "second stars" that were out there to be had numbered 2. just 2. we courted one and the other chose to not even visit...

any trades that did or didn't happen to acquire a "second star" (if you can call spree or etc a star?) were hampered by the fact that we had so few people under contract in the first place... and out of that bunch... no one with enormous trade value or that we could afford to part with...

in the end i think we made the deals that were left to us... and they didn't come out so bad. but when you go after pj brown before rasho... and you get rasho. or when you go after kidd... and get a kick in the pants and alonzo waving his kidney at you... it didn't go "as planned"

but we ended up with a deep team. i think they did a good job of that... the only thing that will hurt is that we still dont have a quality second scorer. parker will never be allowed to truly grow as a point guard if he's just seen as a "scoring point" etc... and he's going to have to (again)

[Ghost Writer]

Yeah, T Park... Holt-ing out for Rasho and Hedo was all a part of Pop's two-year master plan.

I guess if you post anything favoring the Spurs, it will be applauded by dopes around here.

:cooldevil

[scott]

While I think we had a relatively successful offeason, I think its just delusional to think that it went according to plan.

Get TPark some meds.

[CoachTF]

Some really good points fellas. What people have to understand is that San Antonio has a proven "blueprint" in place. That's not to say they would not or could not change some things if they add different pieces. Pop came in with a certain philosophy on how he wanted to run the "entire" organization. It took a while to implement it but over time you see very clear that he believes in hard work and team attitude. He's also proven that anyone who deviates from this path wil not be tolerated. Now, every organization or GM would tell you they believe the same thing but do they? Actions speak louder than words.

Some examples would be Pop's emphasis on character in each player and guys who have proven worthy of a second chance. Guys like Bowen and Jack were battle tested all over the world. They suffered in different leagues and were hungry to prove the world wrong. Now, Jack has always concerned me because he shows some real concerning traits in his behavior. He also shows a willingness to work and get better too though. This for any coach is tough to judge. It's okay to have one guy like this on a team but two or three and it can be serious. I like Jack and think he can develop even more. But to give him a long-term contract with big money would be a mistake in my opinion.

So this leads me to my point. Much like having a defensive or offensive strategy you must have the same in the front office. Add to that they have won two world titles and it validates this philosophy. Jermaine O'neal (my first choice) Elton Brand and J-Kidd would have been awesome additions to the organization. Kidd had the episode with his wife but I think he was the third best player available for this team behind O'neal and Brand. To give one of these guys "max" money would have been appropriate but to over pay anyone else outside these three would have been catastrophic.

I like to use the word "saturate" when people ask me how I try to build teams. I try to saturate all of my teams with leadership, toughness, and competitors who show a willingness to sacrifice for the team. I also try to saturate each position with talented yet intelligent inidividuals who can adapt. Character, is the primary component in this and in my opinion you do not stray from this path especially in the pros when you are talking about a city which is dependent on you being winners.

The big three were not possible so the Spurs added a seven footer with length who improves every year. He is humble (to a fault at times) yet he will work and strive to get better while staying in the "team concept" and never stray from the path. Kandi was a risk not worth taking and Miller does not have the length. Seven footers don't come cheap however Rasho was a bargain at his price. I realize Kandi settled for much less in Minny but he is a cancer that at some point won't even justify the money they will be paying him.

Horry is a "champion" who was a luxury addition in my mind. Did not have to have him but sure is nice now that we do. This guy was the "glue" in LA and for every Shaq dunk and Kobe three this guy was worth even more for the psyche of that team.

Hedo and Ron will be reborn in SA and as excited as I am about Hedo I really think Ron can become a steal for this team. They will work and will benefit from this staff, Timmy and the city of San Antonio. Mercer may require some extra attention but we shall see what happens. Willis and Kerr will be vital to this team even more than last season.

So in the end, maybe we set out for one of the big three but I don't think we settled on what we got. There was alot of thought and hard work put into this with the long term goals of the organization put at the front. Dave cannot be replaced so you don't even try but this team is legit in more ways than one. The Spurs have not even arrived yet. Champs or not things are going to get better and this team has options for the future unlike any other team out there.

[Marcus Bryant]

People on both sides do not seem able to understand that there was more than one "plan." The first part of their strategy was to make a run at a franchise level talent, hence the play for Kidd, JO'Neal, and Brand. While they did that they laid the groundwork for lesser tier free agents such as Nesterovic, Horry, PJBrown, etc...If Plan A didn't work then they switch to Plan B, and so on. I'm sure they wanted for Plan A to happen...that doesn't mean they didn't have a Plan B if that didn't materialize. Saying that things "didn't go according to plan" doesn't recognize this.

[Ghost Writer]

Right.

The first plan failed.

Now we're left with Plan B, despite sacrificing two years of clearing cap space.

We could've done moves like this each of the past two years if we abandoned the Holting Pattern.


:cooldevil

[scott]

Depends on how general your idea of a plan B is. If plan B was "sign a couple players and trade for some others" - then yah, we nailed it.

Signing Rasho and Horry while trading for Hedo and Mercer was not the plan. But that's the way it worked out and I call it a sucess. It certainly satisfies the broad scope of plan B.

[Marcus Bryant]

And another thing, Ghost. Instead of pursuing a Blow It All Now strategy like you wanted them to they made an obvious conscious effort to develop the younger players under their rebuilding strategy.

And, again, they set themselves up with cap flexibility to handle life without David Robinson. It's more than just "the Spurs cleared cap space to make a run at a star". That's overly simplistic and frankly, a moronic view.

Given the trouble they had signing a free agent bigman where would they have been if they didn't have the cap flexibility this summer when DRob retired? Think.

[Ghost Writer]

scott, we had a successful Plan B, but failed at Plan A.

You do realize that we haven't done anything spectacular this offseason given how much cap space we have, right?


:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

Well Ghost they could've done something "spectacular" such as giving up Ginobili for Sprewell. Instead they made some shrewd moves to build their team and retain the flexibility to keep it together.

Getting Turkoglu for the Ghost of Danny Ferry was pretty fucking smooth. I'd take that over giving up a Manu for Spree anytime.

[T Park Num 9]

Geez offer an opinion and your called a morn.


Intelligent conversation??? Doubt it.....

[MannyIsGod]

Ghost,

I honestly don't understand how you still critizce front office manuvering when they gave us a title.

They won dude, you know, mission accomplished?

So, in other words, we didn't sacrafice shit.

[scott]

scott, we had a successful Plan B, but failed at Plan A.

You do realize that we haven't done anything spectacular this offseason given how much cap space we have, right?

You realize you aren't telling me anything I don't already know, right?

:Q

[Ghost Writer]

Oh. Oaky, scott. My bad.

I thought you were one of the homers who thinks we struck oil this offseason, whereas we actually are falling below our highest expectations and right about what we better be doing given all this cap space.

:cooldevil

[El Harbinger]

The fact that we didn't get a second star does NOT mean that Pop doesnt believe in a two star system.

It only means that we were unable to get a second star here this summer.

Pop and company made the best out of a bad situation and should be praised for that....but there is no way in hell that this was there plan from the beginning.

[Marcus Bryant]

Bullshit Ghost. Your "expectations" = damn near impossible. They were never "high" to you. If this team doesn't go 82-0 you bitch like a motherfucker. If the Spurs don't land that second franchise player then my God why do you have to put up with the "pain" of being a Spurs fan. Snap yourself together and shut the **** up.

[Ghost Writer]

:lol


Relax, Marcus. Please direct all your hostilities at the Spurs front office or the NBA free agents who spurned us as predicted.

It ain't my fault.


:cooldevil

[CoachTF]

Exactly MB. I say O'neal or Brand because I believe they are "franchise" guys you can build a team around and put them out as the face of the organization. Kidd is proving in Jersey he can be built around too. Adding any of these three is a no brainer and then you add pieces to compliment.

When it became obvious it was not possible Pop and RC went down the other fork in the road. I understand the frustration of GW and others. I would love to have had O'neal and I was dissapointed it did not work out. I respect opinions and keep an open mind but I disagree with any of the ideas of "maxing" out Odom or Maggette. You can't build a team around guys like Odom, Kandi, or Arenas and "max" players are in my opinion those who can carry an organization.

I see why GW likes Odom or Arenas and I would think of adding at the right price. Odom is just one of those guys who always has an issue. He has had issues everywhere he's been and he's never healthy. I think Arenas is making a huge mistake because Golden State is very solid and that organization is building with character and hard workers. Speedy is going to be real solid for them if he can remain on the court.

With the expansion draft and contracts currently in house next summer could be even more exciting!

[MannyIsGod]

Look, to me this is the BOTTOM LINE.

We made the moves over the past 2 years to make an attempt at landing a star this offseason when david retired.

We didn't do it. DUH.

They made damn good use of the capspace, because we have a very largely talented young core of players which have already won a championship.

You know, not one big name in there, but you can make an arguement that setting up a championship team to win for the next 10 years or so, IS a spectacular accomplishment.

The Lakers are NOT in that type of position, the Kings aren't getting much better, and neither is Dallas.

Our biggest loss of the offseason so far is speedy, but to be honest, the backup pg last year wasn't speedy through the season, it was KERR. Speedy came on at the end and had some great games and was great in the playoffs, but Kerr wasn't doing badly at all.

To me the spurs avoided what happend to the rockets in the mid 90s. They traded their young guys that had helped them get 2 rings for old guys to try to get another one or 2 rings. They have yet to fully recover from that.

Some of this has no doubt involved getting lucky, but alot of it was also front office savy.

It doesn't look extraordinary right now, but if Manu has a breakout year as well as Hedo, you will look back and thank god we didn't land the 2nd star.

[CoachTF]

Nice take Manny!

[Marcus Bryant]

Let's see...

The Spurs kept Parker and Rose (someone here wanted them gone).

Manu and SJackson were given the time to develop, as was Parker (since when does Pop start 19 year old point guards?)

Then the Spurs win a championship.

Tim Duncan re-ups for 7 years without any hesitation.

After that the Spurs have the ability and the nuts to make a play for a second franchise star in free agency. Complain all you want at least they had the friggin' nuts to do it. I know if they pulled it off there wouldn't be all this 20/20 Hindsight BS from you Monday morning QBs.

And then the Spurs proceed to add a replacement for DRob, pick up Turkoglu for nothing, and bolster the bench.

So now the Spurs have a young and talented team that won a title in June, they've addressed the retirement of David Robinson, and they now have a full starting lineup, probably the best ever seen in SA, aged 27 and younger (ie Parker/Manu/Hedo/TD/Rasho).

The Spurs rebuilding strategy was a success.

[Temple Of The Dog]

i agree manny... i said this in another thread... but the lakers are trying gimmicks, the wolves are just trying to keep up, dallas is stuck in a losing system and locked into players, and the kings seem to be a little lost... halfway planning for the future and trying to contend.

i think the spurs did a quality job... not really what they wanted, but they were good enough to come up with some gems and still hold on to that capspace for next year.

if hedo turns into something... they'll have the money to sign manu, go out and sign another guy to come in and help, and get hedo back. they're building a talent base (finally)

[Ghost Writer]

Sure, the rebuilding strategy was a success, but bring in a star so Duncan wouldn't have to toil like RObinson was a failure.

:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

they're building a talent base (finally)

At least someone gets it. Instead of following a Blow It All Now strategy the Spurs have played it smart and put themselves in a position to make a run at a superstar teammate for Duncan while still ensuring they had the ability to build their team if they didn't succeed. Now we see that the Spurs have a youthful and talented supporting cast for TD...along with the flexibility to make it even better. Kinda hard to complain about this, but no doubt some geniuses will find a way.

[MannyIsGod]

Ghost, fine, that was a failure.

But honestly, bitching about that is like bitching about a game 2 loss in the finals when you win the series.

[Marcus Bryant]

Sure, the rebuilding strategy was a success, but bring in a star so Duncan wouldn't have to toil like RObinson was a failure.

Yet, you were for Kidd. No, you didn't want Kidd all you wanted was for them to replace DRob and make a few opportunistic moves. No, not really you were for Kidd all along....

[Ghost Writer]

Wake up, Marcus. This is covered ground.

I begrudgingly pushed for Kidd the second I saw Payton and Malone going to the Lakers. At that point, we couldn't afford to maintain as we're doing now.

We had to improve unquestionably.

:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh so now the Spurs had to make a long term move to react to the Lakers' short term move? Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

[Temple Of The Dog]

if it makes you feel better ghost... i'll argue.

i feel like the spurs passed up moves to get to this year that would have probably won them another championship... we'd have 3 instead of 2... and we'd never have seen all those damn espn specials about the laker dynasty.

the s.smith trade... we could have gotten more for DA then... and even something more for s.smith after we had him. (the moves were never made) capspace issues that led us to this year were the main reason.

and the one glaring problem i see is the lack of a solid second scorer. 16+ million dollars and they couldn't find a guy who averages a solid 17pts a game? tony parker is not stevie franchise... and it would be nice to let him develop his own game after seasons when we forced him to start at the age of 19... and take more shots at the age of 20.

----

that being said ghost... i think you're pushing the moves the lakers made. i wouldn't be afraid of a 40 year old who doesn't guard tim duncan well... and i wouldn't be afraid of a 35 year point guard, who has been schooled by tony parker. shaq is also slowing down a bit, and kobe might be in prison getting to know guys with nicknames like "the ass-assin"... and even if they all play their all-star best... they're all gonna be playing for 40mins a night, because the bench looks weaker than last year...

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Nice post T Park.

I think this summer evolved into Plan B, more than it was Pop's plan all along.

I think any coach wants the best player available. . .a team can never have too much talent. The Spurs made their play at these guys, but things didn't work out.

I don't believe for a minute that we couldn't attract top talent because we're a back-woods team in the middle of the two ocean coasts. The cards just didn't go our way with the MAX guys.

But Pop and company still found players who fit well into their system, and salvaged yet another off-season where they can once again roll the dice to try to lure a top-tier free agent, or afford to reward our guys if they continue to excel.

Having two stars creates some ego problems, but coaches would much rather have too much talent, than too little.





BTW, T Park, I'm impressed with how you've kept your composure in this thread. When GW jabbed you I expected to hear "Fu<k you, you fu<king fu<ker, go and fu<king fu<k yourself!" Didn't happen. Oh, well, maybe next time. :)

[Tony Le Parker]

and if it was Ghost, sfw, he insults ev1 at some pt in time. I don't buy into this "perfect execution of a perfect plan". I think if we had gotten J O'neal, our summer would have been pretty much over and ev1 would have been happy ( excluding MB and Ghost ). What Pop and RC pulled off, yet to be determined how successful it is, was damage control. They didn't act reckless and they didn't buy anything they didnt need or that might hamstring the Spurs in the future. They spent their money wisely, which for some reason is a rarity in the NBA ( see examples Layden, Scott and Riley, Pat ).