An Objective Look at Our Offseason

[Ghost Writer]

Take this offseason out of the context of clearing cap space for two years to bring in a star replacement for David Robinson.

No Holt-ing Pattern to refer to.

No Lakers, Wolves, Kings improvements to compare to.

Just what the Spurs have lost and added. That's it.

Examine it purely as an ordinary offseason in a vacuum. (This way I won't go into my conclusion that this summer has fallen way short of expectations and we have not kept up with the Jonses.)

Do you think the front office has done well and why?

Subtractions:

David Robinson
Stephen Jackson
Speedy Claxton
Danny Ferry
Steve Smith
Menge Bateer

Additions:

Rasho Nesterovic
Hedo Turkoglu
Robert Horry
Ron Mercer
Devean Brown

If I am forgetting anyone, please add on.

I am not so sure the additions make up for the subtractions yet.

Are you?

Why?

Question.

:cooldevil

[Nikos]

If you factor in Ginobili and Parker's chances of improving in the upcoming year(s) -- then I say we are all right.

[ducks]

have not lost jackson yet

and ferry might not be traded either.

[adidas11]

Spurs should be OK, they have a solid nucleus.

But I don't want to hear the moaning and bitching 3 or 4 years from now, when Spurs fans complain about not having another superstar in the lineup (similar to David Robinson in the 1990s), and that being the main reason why the Spurs can't win more championships.

[ducks]

and I do no twant to hear you bitching about why the lakers lose next year with no bench

[Ghost Writer]

Um, no. Nikos, those two are not additions or subtractions.

Lokk purely at who we lost and added and tell me why we should be rejoicing.

I'd like to know what everyone is so excited about.

I want to be happy, too.

:cooldevil

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not sure it adds up either, but the new guys aren't total scrubs and the guys leaving weren't all stars either (with the obvious exception of the irreplaceable DRob).

Sure we all wanted a second franchise player, turns out none wanted to be here and/or the Spurs didn't want them. I simply can't write off these players and Pop's ability to put a team together every year just yet.

[KoriEllis]

Ghost, the only thing I worry about A LOT is Rasho's D.

David anchored this team and will be sorely missed, especailly on the defensive end. I am extremely wary of Rasho -- so for that reason, I'm not sure the additions outweigh the subtractions either.

It's still a "maybe" for me.

[Ghost Writer]

That's fair, Chump.

I just don't see where people all going bananas like the Spurs won another draft lottery or something.

I know we're not done yet, but we've lsot more talent than we've gained.

:cooldevil

[gospurs21]

GW,
you probably don't think it matters but you left Devin Brown off the additions list.

I think:
Rasho is better value than Kandi or Miller for the price we got him. While I have no delusions that he will replace D Robs defensive presense, I came to realize that we didn't use Dave that much this season.

Turkoglu should be servicable and may turn out to be a surprise with more minutes.

Horry is bench fodder like Ferry

Mercer is the wild card. Maybe he turns into a great bench player behind Manu (if Jax agents screws us) or maybe he will be traded for quality back up PG.

Jax isn't gone....yet

I would like to have kept/keep
Speedy, but for nothing more than 10M for 3yrs, 3rd year team option
Jax, but for nothing more than 12M for 3yrs, 3rd year team option
Kerr, for vet min 2 yrs, 2nd yrs team option
Willis, for vet min 2 yrs, 2nd yrs team option

GW is only happy when the players we get are "ballas" wear headbands.

Go Spurs...

[DeSPURado]

I think we added alot of talent and depth. We will miss Daivd's presense on D and in the locker room, We will Miss Jackson's explosiveness, We will miss Ferry's Camby provoking antics. But such is the nature of the sport.


Honestly I thought Jackson was a big question mark on this team. He was frustrating to watch because he played with a lot of heart and hustle, but he made so many stupid mistakes too. Honestly Turkoglu is going to be an upgrade.


Rasho will be an offensive monster with Duncan playing the High Low game with him. Honestly there wasn't a better center out there with better hands than Rasho.


Parker and Manu must get better this year and be far more consistent with increased minutes. It boils down to how well the two of them mesh and grow together. There were times last year when Parker looked afraid to pass to Manu and that has to end. Their improvement will be the ultimate test of this off season's faith in them.

[Nikos]

Um Ghost, NO. Drob was RETIRING. What did you want us to replace him with a great center and also get ODOM? Kandi is not MUCH better than Rasho and might even be a worse fit.

Also Ginobili and Parker's potential improvement are in a sense additions because they will get the opportunity to flourish with an extra year of experience. I guess that doesn't matter to you anyway cause Ginobili is just an energy player anyway right?

Ghost what signing would make you happy? DROB WAS RETIRING ANYWAY and Speedy has a big head and wants to start elsewhere, let him. Sjax agent probably screwed him over -- but oh well.

I guess the only thing that would have made you happy is Kandi-Odom seeing that Kidd and O Neal didnt want to come anyway.

But as I look at the additions and subtratctions I would say that our team is NOT worse.

Drob was going anyway and he is tough to replace.

[kohai]

Manu will almost be like a new player if he's healthy. We only saw flashes of him in limited minutes.

Claxton and Jack both pretty much left over money issues. There is only so much that you want to pay a backup PG when your new starting SG is going to be a FA next year, and the Arenas situation may rear it's head. That essentially makes the choice Speedy in a backup role, or Manu.

Jack is another issue altogether. I thought that he may slide into Bowen's starting role in a year or so, but his reported contract demands are absurd. He's exciting, but WILDLY inconsistant, and needs to consolidate his game for a year or two before he asks for that kind of money.

I think they replaced David as best they could with the pool of players actually interested in playing in SA to draw from. They got outside shooting and shotblocking, which mesh well with our current offensive and defensive sets.

They also have flexability down the line for next summer to re-sign Manu and Hedo, and possibly sign others.

[Temple Of The Dog]

the additions more than make up for the subtractions so far (except for one) speedy.

rasho is healthy and david wasn't. no matter what david used to be, he was always there at 7 feet to look intimidating next to duncan. rasho will do that... and could probably play more mins than dave doing it.

hedo might not be sjax, but thats a good thing. hedo has handles and is not as streaky a shooter... good hands. hedo is a finished player waiting to be polished... sjax's game is/was still raw for his age. getting him also means you start manu and not really worry about a 2/3 guy to bring in off the bench anymore. (hedo is perfect for that role)

horry is ferry and s smith rolled into one... and your guess is as good as mine as to why they got him... but ferry came in handy for one game during the phoenix series... so might horry come playoff time.

mercer might not stay for long, but if he does, he more than makes up for any depth issues we might have if either hedo or manu get injured... someone more than solid to come in and save the day.

speedy... ah... speedy... he's gonna be missed. but if it kicks parker's ass into gear, then it was worth losing him. parker has more talent than speedy, period, end of story. he just has to get used to getting over that hill when things go bad.

so, if they bring in some scrub to be his backup, pop won't yell at him or sit him down now... he'll leave him in... it could be what he needs, or it could be bad... who knows... but after the way he's played the last two years... i'd bet on him.

[NCaliSpurs]

BTW, you have to throw in the hometown hero, Devin Brown.

I say with exception of Speedy Claxton, our additions more than make up for our subtractions.

However, Speedy Claxton was out for most of last season, and we did fine without him. We can never know what would have happened in the playoffs without Speedy, but I agree that we were fortunate to have him.

Signing Rod Strickland or any decent vet PG would be fine to replace Tony Parker for 10-15 mpg. We have a lot of other ball-handlers and smart basketball players to help out.

David Robinson was a better defender than Rasho. David Robinson also had a Tim Duncan to help him out, and a good defensive team all around. It makes a difference. However, I feel Rasho's youth is a big bonus over Robinson's unpredictable back.

I think that if Ron Mercer or Hedo Turkoglu got Jackson's minutes with the Spurs, they would do as good or better.

Mercer is a guy that averaged 19.7 ppg on 45% shooting when actually got to play and take shots. That ain't too shabby, a sight better than Sprewell last year. BTW, he is only 27.

Hedo is a guy that can drive, shoot, and pass. He has a better head for basketball than Stephen Jackson and won't be prone to the same kinds of mistakes.

Horry? What can you say? He busted his ass to help the lakers get to the playoffs and he had no juice left. I want to save the legs of perhaps the greatest clutch shooter ever. Again, he is a smart basketball player that can defend and shoot the open shot and sneak to the basket every once in a while.

Overall, we added a lot of talent.

[NCaliSpurs]

Temple, we certainly agree in a lot of areas.

[Ghost Writer]

Nikos, part of any offseason is dealing with retiring players.

You cna't discount Robinson retiring unless you're going to discount a draft pick.

That's like just paying attention to the free agents we signed and ignoring the ones we lost.

Robinson retiring is a loss that must be dealt with.

Looking at the offseason at face value, so far we've lost more talent than we've gained.

I hope to see that balanced out as we fill out the rest of our bench and address the backup PG spot.

Right now, this offseason doesn't overwhelm me even by typical standards.

You factor in what the rest of the West has done and what we had the potential to do... oh wait. I said I would not go there.

We need to look at backup PGs and maybe make another trade for talent.

:cooldevil

[Nikos]

I understand this Ghost. But there wasn't much we could do with the loss of Drob. O Neal or Brand was the best choice to fill in underneath with Duncan -- but we could not get them. The next tier would be Kandi and Rasho and those two are pretty close overall in terms of fitting into the Spurs.

What else could we really do Ghost?

If we sign a backup PG our team will be considerably deeper than last season.

Even with the loss of Drob and Speedy I still say our subtractions do not outweigh our additions and if Manu and Parker improve I think our team is better than last seasons.

You can look at it from your +'s and -'s standpoint but the bottom line is we added more depth at the same time leaving it so Parker and Ginobili have a chance to grow into twice the players they were last season. That to me means more than meets the eye.

Sure from a +/- standpoint we do not have a HUGE edge -- but you have to take a look at this team and what it has and could be. And it is still a contender to win the title and it still has potential to keep improving.

Sometimes there is such a thing as addition by subtraction.

[Temple Of The Dog]

Temple, we certainly agree in a lot of areas.

yeah ncali... we brought up the same points. i think even though david was a better defender, rasho's height is what duncan will use... rasho has the potential to grow under duncan, unlike his situation with the wolves and kg. (where rasho was forced to play under the basket)

parker's backup though... i think "whoever" will do. i mean with speedy it would have been nice because he knew the system towards the end... but thats about it.

[bigzak25]

as stated above, by kori and others---

DRob's D hasn't and i'd venture to say, will not be replaced.
Although it was good to see TD step up into the role of 'This is my neighborhood' even more last year.

If Rasho gets in the gym, he will lessen the blow, but this was expected, short of O'neill or Brand coming aboard.

Their is a major dropoff from speedy at the PG, on paper.
We'll see what happens there.

Anyone seen DBrown play that can comment on him?

[Ghost Writer]

Nikos, don't whine. I hate whining.

It's not about:

"What else could we have done?"

There's been about 13,745,687 posts over the past two years dedicated to that.

Do you really think we are an improved team on paper given who's gone and who we've added?

Question.


:cooldevil

[Nikos]

WHINE????

Did i complain that we didnt get KIDD, BRAND? Sure Im upset. But seeing we got Turk and Mercer for NOTHING I like our roster.

I don't LOVE it. But our team is not worse off.

What the **** you talking about whining? Your the one whos been whinning all fuckin summer.

Did you see me bitch away 500 posts about Holting Pattern or whatever the **** else you talk about.

What the hell are you talking about?

[Ghost Writer]

:rollin

I guess Nikos can't stay within the boundaries of this conversation. We're not talking Holt-ing Pattern or about the moves the competition made. If we did, there would be no question this summer is a disaster.

You can honestly look at who we're losing and who we're getting and say we haven't missed a beat?

Please explain.

I am not convinced yet.

:cooldevil

[NCaliSpurs]

Nikos, don't whine. I hate whining.

:rollin

Ghost - You didn't bother to even read any posts that addressed your concerns, did you?

Oh well. Pissing in the wind I suppose.

[Temple Of The Dog]

Do you really think we are an improved team on paper given who's gone and who we've added?

i don't know about him... but i do...

if improving "on paper" won championships, i'd trade the spurs for dallas straight up and consider it a steal... but it doesn't. the guys we've picked up more than make up for what we lost, and with the "big guy" (not god) duncan... everything else always seems to work out.

[Nikos]

I am saying you have been bitching about everything.

I dont even care what it is, but you have been bitching.

If anyone has been whining its you.

Subtractions:
Drob: we lose D, alot of it
Speedy: we lose a great backup
Others: I dont care about

Additions:
Horry: we add a guy who still can hit clutch shots, he will always be a threat because of his BIG shot REP
Turkoglu: This guy isn't worse than SJax talent wise and eventually might even be a better fit for this team. Hes waiting to break out. Even several die hard KINGS fans are concerned that he might come back and BITE HIS OLD TEAM in the but. Even despite the fact that you say HEDO sucked behind Jim Jackson -- yet die hard fans who know this fact still are concerned. Now why is that? Could it be that Turk actually has talent?
Rasho: solid pickup, worse on D than Drob obviously but is more reliable on O and is one of the better center fits for this team.
Mercer: maybe we use him as trade bait for backup PG? Either way the guy has talent as well -- he was once a 19ppg scorer and hes not exactly chopped liver.


Also we havent lost Sjax yet -- and if we did than oh well. He was a clutch shooter but his agent screwed things up for him. Turkoglu is still a very good replacement and might even be a better fit for this team. His upside could be higher than you think.

Lastly, Ghost don't change the subject and start laughing that I mentioned the HOLTING PATTERN -- I merely said that to make a point that most of your posts are whining and sound ridiculous which is why I mentioned it -- not because of its relavance (or lack of in this case) to the additions to our team this year.

[Spurminator]

You can honestly look at who we're losing and who we're getting and say we haven't missed a beat?

I wouldn't say we've missed a beat. We haven't made some huge leap as far as adding talent, but it's not like we've digressed.

Rasho's offense will likely make up for what we lose defensively without DRob. Dave, Pop bless him, was an offensive liability the last two years. With Rasho, we no longer have two starters on the floor who can't score.
And since most of David's shots were 12-footers from the top or dunks, why not get the best shooting center available?

Hedo will surprise a lot of people. He may not be your prototypical "balla" but he's fearless, aggressive, and can score from anywhere. Though a bit slower, he's got all of the skills Jackson had and then some.

Horry gives us a player who can strip the ball and draw offensive fouls with the best of them, while playing any of the three low positions if needed. Perfect 8-10 mpg player for this team.

Mercer is gravy. In a perfect world, I'd like to see him shipped out for a backup PG. But we could always give Kerr 5-7 minutes a game and try Manu at the point for the remaining 5-7 minutes that Parker is out.

Mengke and Smitty... considering their contributions last year, I see their loss as marginal at worst.

[Temple Of The Dog]

you know... i still don't really understand signing horry. i suppose it gives us great depth and an easy contract situation. (especially for next season) -- he may come in handy (just in time for the playoffs)

[Spurminator]

I'd be willing to give Horry 1.5 million of his contract just to keep him out of LA.

http://www.ooze.com/finger/assets/images/jcash.jpg

[Ghost Writer]

NCali, your posts were interesting and I took no objection to them.

Nikos needs a little course correcting, but eventually she came around with a solid, if not unbiased, breakdown of the additions and subtractions this offseason.

Temple, while we grossly overpaid for Horry, he gives us what Ferry did, plus stronger interior defense.

I need to see who we sign for backup point before I make my final judgment, but so far, we're not improved dramatically over last season.

I see a bunch of slight upgrades that could equal a composite overall improvement.

Mercer > Smith
Horry > Ferry
Turkoglu = Jackson
Backup Point Guard < Claxton
Nesterovic = Robinson


:cooldevil

[Temple Of The Dog]

Temple, while we grossly overpaid for Horry, he gives us what Ferry did, plus stronger interior defense.

well i said a combination of ferry and s.smith... but thats not the point... the point is, we're not really going to use him. i see the playing time pecking order by position like this:

5 nesterovic/duncan/willis
4 duncan/malik/horry
3 bowen/hedo/horry
2 manu/hedo/mercer/kerr
1 parker/backup?/kerr

thats deep... very deep...

[Spurminator]

Well, some of us never use our car insurance, but we don't go buying it out of the Thrifty Nickel.

:music

[Temple Of The Dog]

Well, some of us never use our car insurance, but we don't go buying it out of the Thrifty Nickel.

yeah well where do you think you're gonna get your backup point guard from... walmart? we gave the dude too much... but screw it. its a deep roster.

[Marcus Bryant]

I like how all of a sudden Hedo is crap. Obviously if you think that is the case you have to start a thread like this.

[Uncle Donnie]

We probably got slightly better but at this point it's certainly nothing to jump up and down about.

Don't underestimate what David brought defensively. Rasho won't match what David contributed as far as the team defense and he sure won't match DRob's defense man-to-man. Don't expect us to play Rasho vs. Shaq one on one anytime soon. I'll give Rasho an edge offensively over Dave of last year, but that's not the improvement it's been made out to be. David still shot a high % last year, he just wasn't a major part of the offense. How much will things change with Rasho?

Hedo vs. Jax is a wash at best. Hedo is more dependable but Jax is more clutch and plays better defense. I think I'd go with Jax though if given a choice. Really the only sure positive I see in losing Jackson is that it pretty much guarantees that Manu will start next season.

Horry will give us more than Ferry. Mercer is a wildcard but I'm definitely not expecting much there, in fact he'll probably be traded. Brown will probably spend most of his time on the bench or IR.

[Marcus Bryant]

I think some here are underestimating Hedo's game. It's not like he was playing behind anyone besides an All-Star in Sacto. He did a good job in relief of Webber even. He's all of 24. Given the minutes he has the ability to produce and improve the Spurs' rebounding and scoring at the 3.

[T Park Num 9]

How do Ron Mercer and Hedo Turkoglu go from good players to crap or bad players????


I dont understand how them getting these players make them crap.

Makes no sense.

[NCaliSpurs]

In Ghost's defense, the credible David Aldridge thinks the Spurs are worse than they were last year as of right now. However, he thinks that as the new players are integrated they will be better than they were last year.

More talent, less chemistry.

[MI21]

Ghost, the only thing I worry about A LOT is Rasho's D.

David anchored this team and will be sorely missed, especailly on the defensive end. I am extremely wary of Rasho -- so for that reason, I'm not sure the additions outweigh the subtractions either.

It's still a "maybe" for me.

Basically my thoughts :)

Also, I dont like losing Jackson at all.

[travis2]

You can honestly look at who we're losing and who we're getting and say we haven't missed a beat?


I see a bunch of slight upgrades that could equal a composite overall improvement.

Let us know when you've made up your mind...

[Ghost Writer]

travis, you dope. What don't you understand?

When I look at the team, I see mostly slight upgrades with a couple dropoffs on paper. That doesn't overwhelmingly convince me that we're better yet. Read the entire posts before trying to come off as a smart @ss, stunod.


"In Ghost's defense, the credible David Aldridge thinks the Spurs are worse than they were last year as of right now. However, he thinks that as the new players are integrated they will be better than they were last year.

More talent, less chemistry." — NCali
Exactly.

Alderige also mentioned that losing Robinson's D will hurt us, something that a lot of people sweep under the carpet. Shaq said that he's happy there's no more TWin Towers. Having two 7-foot shot blocking defenders defined SPURS BASKETBALL over the past five-plus years more than people want to let on.

I think that the moderate upgrades poisition for position will eventually equate to a better overall product.

I think that Popovich is going to tinker for the first 4 months of the season to see what players separate themselves from the rest and whittle it down to a 9-man regular rotation.

Who we get at backup PG will make all the difference.

:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

Turkoglu is more than a slight upgrade. I saw that interview with Aldridge and he said once the summer is over and the Spurs are done he thinks they will have improved. But go ahead and underestimate Turkoglu all you want. Eventually you'll change your mind and then you will be telling us you were the only one who thought he would be any good.

[Ghost Writer]

Um, you have a whole thread to satisfy your Turkoglu fetish. Until Sacramento's 10th man proves he can perform at our former starting SG's level (Jackson), I consider him a minor upgrade based on unrealized potential alone.

Please feel free to comment on the additions and subtractions for the Spurs so far.

:cooldevil

[travis2]

As usual, when you are called on an inconsistency, you have to resort to name-calling and other ad hominem attacks instead of debating.

"Missed a beat" = regressed

"slight upgrades" != regressed

It's as simple as that.

Next time try it without the name calling.

[Ghost Writer]

Read the thread, dipsh1t. You're a real piece of work.

Your perception of my words are offbase, per usual.

I explained my POV thoroughly in several posts.

I even broke it down for you again.

Third time (slowly):

Robinson's departure will hurt us defensively. We still need to see who replaces Claxton.

All the other acquisitions are either equal to or better than the departures.

Add that up and it is not clear yet that we are a definitely better team.,

Try thinking a little, travis. Bury the hate and post a take.

You still haven't taken a stand, pissant. Oh wait — you think the Spurs are super-duper now. Nevermind.







:cooldevil

[travis2]

Bury the hate and post a take.

Take a good look in the mirror, cocksucker...

I've done nothing but kick your ass since you showed up, lightweight. And all you've ever done is toss insults without any substance.

Your POV changes with the winds...and the whipsaw effects of your obvious drug addiction.

You don't know a damn thing about my POV because you've never bothered to read anything. Merely spout.

Crawl back into your hole with the rest of the slime.

[Ghost Writer]

:sleep

Still waiting for you to take a stand on the offseason.

travis, you are a nobody as far as I am concerned. At least Marcus backs his counterpoints with substance. You're just an annoyance.

Please go back and read what I wrote and tell me what you take issue with.

I can take two separate thoughts from anyone's posts and make them look contracdictory. Try reading and responding to the thoughts in context.

For the fourth time:

On paper most of the Spurs addtions are upgrades. Losing David's defense will hurt and I want to see who we get as a backup PG. So far, looking at this season for what it is and not what it could've been — we are on the right track.

B1tch.


:cooldevil

[CosmicCowboyXXX]

http://rabbit.newspress.com/cognito.gif

hehe hehehe hehe Travis said cocksucker!!!!!

[Ghost Writer]

Way to stunt a thread, travis.

Right now, Hedo Turkoglu does not compensate for the loss of Jackson, Robinson's defense and Speedy Claxton.

Time will tell.

:cooldevil

[travis2]

Oh boy...you think I'm a nobody. Frankly, I put that just below my dog giving me his opinion on my choice of clothes for the day. :sleep

Fine, I'll humor you...again. I'm not saying anything I haven't said elsewhere anyway...

Nesterovic...To compare him with Robinson in even his near prime is absurd. However, in comparison with the Robinson of the last 2 years is reasonable. Rasho's numbers, while less than what David posted, also are something of a product of the system he was in at Minnesota. I fully expect his rebounds and blocks to go up in the Spurs defense. Whatever his faults, Pop does know how to teach defense. I'm willing to go on record as saying Rasho will thrive as a Spur.

Turkoglu...I liked him his rookie year and frankly was surprised he couldn't see more playing time last year. Again, that is a product of the Sacramento system...Stojakovic was ahead of him. Again, any defensive inconsistencies can be overcome with the proper teaching...and the proper system, which is already in place. I see Turkoglu having a very good first year with the Spurs and being resigned to a mid-length contract next year.

Horry...In my eyes, he's Mario Elie without the external roughness. Won't back down from anyone, and will shove the dagger in your heart on command. His legs are the only weak point in his game right now. As has been reported by others, with proper minutes management during the regular season, he will be in top form come playoff time. I see Horry playing well enough to warrant the team picking up his option, but cap considerations may not allow that.

Mercer...Throwaway, as far as I'm concerned. Anything he brings this year is gravy. Steve Smith with better defense and better moves. Regardless, $6+ million is too steep for more than a one-year deal. Gone next year.

Jackson...needs to fire his agent. Or at least to tell him to STFU and get out of the way. If he allows Fegan to ship him off to another team, he will fold up like an origami crane. As a Spur, however, he is already on the way to being a big game player.


Overall...I think we are a better team this year than last. Yes, the Spurs really could use a backup PG...but if they don't get one, they can survive. Speedy was gone for half the year and they did fine without him...there is enough ball-handling talent on the current roster to take up the slack. Defensively...while on paper one might make the argument that the Spurs have taken a step back, I disagree. I see the Spurs as standing pat. As I said, defense can be taught, and this staff has already proven it can do the teaching. Offensively...I see the Spurs as improved. I see the pieces the Spurs picked up this offseason as much more reliable than what we lost. Plus, another year of experience for Parker and Manu...that must be included in the equation. "Standing pat" in personnel doesn't equate to standing pat in talent. Even in the fast break, the Spurs are a disciplined team as a rule, and time together is necessary to make everything work. Manu this season does not equal Manu last season.

Would I have liked to see O'Neal in the post? Sure...who wouldn't. But it wasn't to be, and pistols aren't issued to GMs to force FAs to sign. You work with who is available.

Multiple superstars are not necessary to build championship teams. For proof...see Portland, Utah, and last year's Spurs. What is as (if not more) important is having a viable system on both offense and defense...and bringing in the talent that will work within that system.

These new pieces fit.


I'm not willing to concede the O'Brien trophy next year.

[Ghost Writer]

That's better, travis.

When you quit trying to manipulate my thoughts and concentrate on presenting your own, you come acroos much more intelligently.

I concur with most of what you're saying.

"Standing pat" and maintaining is pretty good, assumming your challengers have not improved.

I noticed you disregard the backup PG spot.

Interesting.


:cooldevil

[travis2]

And when you aren't calling people names you aren't so bad...

As far as disregarding the backup PG...I'm not discounting the job that Speedy did last year. But let's keep things in perspective. Exactly what did we see from Speedy? A few playoff games, really. The regular season (what little he played) showed that he definitely had some talent, but he wasn't going to be taking TP's job anytime soon. Speedy is too young a player to start depending on him performing every playoff as he did against the Nets...at least, not yet.

Also, his performance was a product of what the Nets threw at him. Kittles was able to shut down TP with his length...but they didn't keep that up with Speedy. When Parker left...the Nets switched defensive schemes. So a head-to-head playoff comparison between TP and Speedy is not entirely relevant...the conditions of the test aren't the same.

During the regular season, Speedy didn't play at all for quite a while...and the Spurs proved they could survive without him. I'm not saying I would turn down a decent backup...I'm merely saying it's not a season-ender if the Spurs don't pick one up.

[bigzak25]

GW-

Robinson's departure will hurt us defensively. We still need to see who replaces Claxton.



Nail on the head their man. Our championship hopes hinge on those 2 factors. Having to go against TD everyday in practice will hopefully help Rash improve on D. Maybe I missed it, but anyone have the stats on DBrown, anyone see his play....

[tlongII]

When I objectively look at the moves during the off-season I have to admit that it appears the Spurs are decidedly better. Nesterovic does not have the natural talent of Robinson, but he is younger and Robinson was worn down by injuries last year. Nesterovic will not have as much pressure on him inside as he did at Minnesota since Duncan is a more imposing inside player than Garnett.

The big piece that many Spurs fans don't realize in my opinion is that Stephen Jackson was WAY OVERRATED. The combination of Turkoglu and Horry will be much better than Jackson. Turkoglu in particular has a chance at being a star in the Spurs system. He has an excellent offensive game and his defenciencies on defense will be covered by the Spurs shot-blockers.

Ron Mercer could also be a surprise for the Spurs. This guy can play and could flourish in a role off the bench if his ego doesn't get in the way.

The key for the Spurs will be Tony Parker's health. He will be playing a lot of minutes this season and if he goes down the Spurs could be in trouble.

[2Cleva]

As a Laker fan, SA did well to attempt to maintain but they still are missing that player that really scares the opposition. It is comical from the outside that SA didn't get the impact player you guys wanted but you still have a championship worthy team.

But to parrot, not having a defensive center and is the biggest weaknesses. Your perimeter players are nice but so is the rest of the league. The bench is strong as well but not having Robinson is going to hurt. No way Rasho's numbers match Robinson's impact. Teams just won't be as scared to take it inside as they were in the past. Plus Nesterovic won't get the calls that Robinson got. SA went from having the best defensive center in the West to 4th (behind LA, Sac, Minny). I wonder if Popovich changes the scheme more.

You guys need a veteran backup for Parker but there are plenty out there still so I don't think you guys should worry about that. Parker is obviously still to young to be reliable every night but SA can compensate in FA.

But even hurt, many here are underestimating the presence Robinson brought to the game.

[2Cleva]

Honestly, as long as SA didn't get O'Neal I was happy. But I think either Kandi or Brad Miller would have been better fits on both ends than Nesterovic.

[tlongII]

I have to disagree with 2Cleva. Robinson was not near to being the best defensive center in the league last year. Tim Duncan was, even though he played power forward. Teams definitely ARE afraid to take it to the rack against Duncan and they still will be.

[travis2]

Having said that I don't see it as a disaster we haven't picked up a backup PG...what is my solution?

Admittedly, my solution would require some definite work...but it's a possibility.

Submitted for your approval...


Split the backup role primarily between the following:

Steve Kerr...Good old Ted Williams reincarnated certainly knows the current Spurs offense well enough to run it. While he doesn't have the penetration that Parker does, he certainly has the range to prevent the opposing PG from sagging off of him. And he's a smart player. What we give up in mobility we get back (at least partially) in reliability with the ball.

Manu Ginobili...That's right, Manu. This kid's got absolutely sick passing skills, plus you don't lose the penetration aspects of Parker's game. In fact, I put him down as a better passer than Parker right now. What he needs is not so much a muzzle as some tempering. He needs to learn how to use those impossible passes within the framework of the current offense. Which also means his teammates will need to learn just how well he can get them the ball.

Also...at 6'6" (or thereabouts) he's tall enough to post up most PGs. Now, you're going to say that he doesn't have a post up game...and I would tell you yet. It would take some work...but with his quickness and his passing, working from the post would just fill out his overall game incredibly.

[genghisrex]

I think either Kandi or Brad Miller would have been better fits on both ends than Nesterovic.You think Kandi would have been a better fit offensively? How? Defensively, I think we would be, but Kandi's offensive game is completely low-post oriented and he would just get in Tim's way.

[2Cleva]

genghis - you're right about Kandi's offense. I was distracted. He would get in the way. Thats another reason why neither O'Neal nor Brand was really interested in SA, they operate just like Duncan does.

tlongl - Duncan never had to hold the fort. Robinson always did that. Tim just had to play free safety and gobble up rebounds and blocks because Robinson always was the presence at the rim.

If he plays the same kind of roaming D, no one of significance will be guarding the basket.

[Ghost Writer]

I agree, Cleve.

I am waiting for the Spurs to get that one player that would make me sit up and pay attention.

I want an "over the top" kind of signing that makes it obvoius that this was a good offseason.

If we let Jackson walk, I'd like to see Mercer get dealt and a really good backup PG be brought in.


:cooldevil

[tlongII]

tlongl - Duncan never had to hold the fort. Robinson always did that. Tim just had to play free safety and gobble up rebounds and blocks because Robinson always was the presence at the rim.

I disagree. Duncan not only held the fort, he WAS the fort! If Robinson always was the presence at the rim why was Duncan at the top of the league in rebounds and blocked shots? You don't pile up those statistics by roaming around the court like a free safety.

[2Cleva]

tlongl - roaming is exactly how you pad those stats. Robinson took care of taking the main presence from the other team either off the boards or guarding him so Tim could help. Robinson was always the backbone of SA's D. The guts to Tim's glory.

ghost writer - I doubt SA will get that player now. Not sure what PGs would be available to trade but Mercer's last year deal would allow you guys to deal for a player under a longer K.

But it does depend on when the deal was made. Mercer can only be traded within 48 hours by SA or they have to wait 3 months.

[Marcus Bryant]

Um, you have a whole thread to satisfy your Turkoglu fetish. Until Sacramento's 10th man proves he can perform at our former starting SG's level (Jackson), I consider him a minor upgrade based on unrealized potential alone.


Oh get real Turkoglu had to play behind friggin Stojakovic. SJack had to beat out Steve Smith for Chrissakes. It's not my fault you cannot evaluate talent. You were so sure that Parker sucked and that we "homers" were overrating him. Turkoglu is more than a minor upgrade for this team should they lose SJackson. If they manage to keep Jack then they are golden.

[Ghost Writer]

If you wnat to continue your love affair with Hedo, please go back to the thread dedicated to that. We're not discussing him specifically here. For someone who seems to be Hedo's #1 fan, you must've missed his entire last season. He failed in spot start and actually spent most of the season as the Kings' 10th man.


:cooldevil

[scott]

Until Sacramento's 10th man proves he can perform at our former starting SG's level (Jackson), I consider him a minor upgrade based on unrealized potential alone.

This appears to be the crux of your analysis of our offseason Ghost. So, please allow me to respectfully rebut.

I see Turkoglu as more than a minor upgrade. As a starter, Stephen Jackson put up respectable numbers- 11.8 ppg in 28 minutes on 43% shooting. While I see these as a first step in what could be a fantastic career for Stephen Jackson- I think his numbers are inflated by being the Starting SG for the San Antonio Basketball Spurs. The previous season, we were able to insert an old, broken Steve Smith at the starting 2 guard spot at get almost identical numbers. Smitty put up 11.6 ppg in 28 minutes a game on 45% shooting (and 47% from 3).

There is a lot of potential in Jack, but I don't think he is as good (at this point) as his numbers indicate. Further proof of The Spurs Effect is seen in Bruce Bowen. He's managed to average 7 points a game as a Spur, and become the league's top 3 point shooter. Any other team in the league, and Bruce is probably back to earth.

Turkoglu, however, managed to put up similar numbers (10.1 ppg in 24 mpg) as a backup in Sac, where he was often times the the 4th option (where as Jack and Smitty were 2nd or 3rd options). Given Starting SG/SF minutes in the Spurs SG/SF system, I think Turkoglu can make the jump from Steve Smith like numbers to at least Derek Anderson (15ppg) numbers.

[Marcus Bryant]

If you wnat to continue your love affair with Hedo, please go back to the thread dedicated to that. We're not discussing him specifically here.

Oh yeah like you have never deviated from the subject at hand in a thread before. In case you didn't notice this thread concerns the Spurs' offseason. Of course it says an "objective look" not a 'mindnumbingly pessimistic screed about the Spurs' so perhaps you shouldn't post in here either.




For someone who seems to be Hedo's #1 fan, you must've missed his entire last season. He failed in spot start and actually spent most of the season as the Kings' 10th man.


There you go again. You come up with these ridiculously negative views on anything the Spurs do and then accuse anyone who dares to disagree with you as being too optimistic. That fact is that you are almost laughingly negative about anything the Spurs do. As for Turkoglu he was the Kings' 10th man or whatever for a reason. He was playing on a fucking loaded team. This is not hard to understand. Hell, Detlef Schrempf was buried on the Mavs bench in the 80s before he blossomed elsewhere. Turkoglu didn't "fail" at starting. Shit, they had him starting at the friggin 4 for Webber once.

It's time you realize that the Scott Layden is not the Spurs' GM and the Spurs are not fucked like the Knicks are.

[Ghost Writer]

My job is to temper your biased enthusiasm with objective pessimism.

Don't call Turkoglu Peja's backup when he was not.

Don't act like Hedo's addition is going to make this summer an obvious success.

I agree in theory that given the opportunity, Hedo will go from a forgotten man to a top performer for the Spurs.

Heck, we gave Jackson an opportunity and he went from a IR player to a starter.

The same fortune will probably be in store for Hedo and the Spurs.

I don't know if that's enough to clearly call this summer a success, but it's a great start.

:cooldevil

[sportcamper1]

I finally found the thread where Travis said a very dirty word…this was worth the price of admission! LMAO!

I was going to give a serious post but now I just can’t I can’t stop laughing….
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[Marcus Bryant]

Your job? Um, ok.

Your takes are exceedingly negative day in and day out. I'm not the only one who has said that.

Yes, Turkoglu is a steal.

[Ghost Writer]

Getting back to the topic at hand, I am not convinced that Hedo makes this summer an unabashed success, although he's a step in the right direction.

It's nice to see the Spurs on the receiving end of an unfair deal.

:cooldevil