Grades: Spurs @ Heat - Oct. 8, 2019

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-miami-heat-october-18-2019/

tl;dr: Underwhelming all around. The Spurs have work to do after their second straight preseason blowout.

[Fireball]

just watched the replay ... this does look like an uninspiring Spurs team ... I had hopes with Murrays return but he looked awful in my opinion ... still cannot finish at the rim, iffy jumpshot and jumping passing lanes too hard without bing able to recover

[TDMVPDPOY]

ib bonafide scrub

[Texas_Ranger]

if they will be this shitty during the season i am all for tanking. No need to be 10th or 11th and get a shitty pick.

[monty4329]

Preseason doesn't usually give any real indication on the Spurs real status. Still, they played like shit.
I was mostly worried by the startes defensive mistakes, they kept compounding. Murray looks in great physical conditions though.

Also, I guess White is thinking: "what more do I have to do to start? I carried the team -after rushing back from an injury- for the best part of last season, and what I get is a boot?" Not sure is a good idea to snub him for Murray, at this stage.

[ceperez]

Ugly. But it is preseason. Expected the scrubs to play better though.

[BillMc]

Thanks for the grades OP.:bobo

Not sure what to think of this team so far. Just preseason, but they look awful.

[Dejounte]

The uninspiring play has to do with leadership. Hopefully thats what Tim is here for.

Second, Mills and Beli contribute literally nothing. Maybe theyre showcasing them to be traded?

[ZeusWillJudge]

The uninspiring play has to do with leadership. Hopefully thats what Tim is here for.

Second, Mills and Beli contribute literally nothing. Maybe theyre showcasing them to be traded?


:pop: "They're professionals. They shouldn't have to be inspired."

[r0drig0lac]

Mills and Marco should NEVER be on court when you have Murray, Walker and White on the team.

[BatManu20]

Just preseason so not going to overreact but yea, they’ve looked like shit so far. My biggest concern is D-White so far. Looks lost out there. But again, 2 meaningless games so not gonna flip.

[Chomag]

Mills and Marco should NEVER be on court when you have Murray, Walker and White on the team.

No kidding! So much for putting your better players out on the court, they still lack the culture I guess.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'm hoping this horrible play is just the young guys trying to figure it out and the old guys not caring too much about preseason games. This is basically the same core of guys that was either losing games by 30 or winning games by 30 last year, so I think the motivation factor is huge with this group.

[Keepin' it real]

Team too distracted.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcTIUlgMooXSOkS_QKBQy4I4c_Mts8B I5N7eE6BvJ2KvSNfXOMRh

[look_at_g_shred]

Worrying about what club they are going to afterwards imho . After all, it is south beach.

[Maddog]

I'm hoping this horrible play is just the young guys trying to figure it out and the old guys not caring too much about preseason games. This is basically the same core of guys that was either losing games by 30 or winning games by 30 last year, so I think the motivation factor is huge with this group.

I hope so
I'm trying not to get concerned about the second preseason game. I know Pop doesn't push too hard early on, looking to peak later in the season. That said they do look bad. In particular DWhite looks terrible.

[TDomination]

Best thing to do is to get all the garbage out of the way. Get it all out of your system. But come game 1 you better come ready to play.

Like others have said, not concerned...yet. Its way too early for that.

[TheGreatYacht]

Folks here were excited about Lonnie in the summer like Marco and Bryn stopped existing :lmao Poop will always stick with his scrubs who can’t defend. Period.

[SAGirl]

I didn’t watch it thanks for the review. Frankly doesn’t seem like a better team than last season right now. It’s preseason only so not overreacting but it doesn’t look better right now. I wonder if Lyles/Carroll are really an upgrade over Davis...

[look_at_g_shred]

Best thing to do is to get all the garbage out of the way. Get it all out of your system. But come game 1 you better come ready to play.

Like others have said, not concerned...yet. Its way too early for that.
Are we sure my niggah? Welcome to Spurs Talk.

[look_at_g_shred]

Folks here were excited about Lonnie in the summer like Marco and Bryn stopped existing :lmao Poop will always stick with his scrubs who can’t defend. Period.
TGY always with the truth bombs. The likes of Bryn, Marco, and Patty would be cut if they were on another team tbh. I swear pop loves his underwhelming pets. It's such a detriment to this team. Dude should hang it up. He can't evaluate talent for shit. I'm actually surprised a guy like lonnie is even on this roster, though, pop himself doesn't even know.

[RD2191]

This team is full of scrubs tbh.

[TheGreatYacht]

TGY always with the truth bombs. The likes of Bryn, Marco, and Patty would be cut if they were on another team tbh. I swear pop loves his underwhelming pets. It's such a detriment to this team. Dude should hang it up. He can't evaluate talent for shit. I'm actually surprised a guy like lonnie is even on this roster, though, pop himself doesn't even know.
You can tell he was an RC pick tbh. Pop doesn’t care about basketball anymore so he just goes with whatever RC thinks is best. Most of the roster doesn’t even fit with the beautiful game. Aldridge and DDR are the antithesis of Spurs basketball but Pop just doesn’t have a shit to give anymore, it’s evident. He’s just collecting paychecks at this point. His 8th place finish with Team USA despite having more talent 95% of the tournament is just another example of it. Imagine what he would do if his best players were 40yr old Scola and 5’9 Campazzo :lol

He’s the Arsene Wenger of basketball, except Arsenal fans are passionate. Spurs fans are just pleased to make the playoffs.

[TimDunkem]

I don't understand how one cannot be concerned when this team looks exactly the same as last year except a year older.

Yeah, yeah, Murray and all that, but he doesn't fit with our best players and still can't shoot. An incremental improvement means nothing when the rest of the league, for the most part, actually got better.

[beachwood]

Two games and in both the team looks uninspired. Their offense feels so predictable and bland. Too many guys driving with nowhere to go. Rudy seems to be the only catch and shoot guy out there. Marco is a complete waste of space. For the love of god, play Lonnie over this guy.

[TimDunkem]

Folks here were excited about Lonnie in the summer like Marco and Bryn stopped existing :lmao Poop will always stick with his scrubs who can’t defend. Period.

Don't forget that faggot Mills. He's still clearly the backup PG....sigh.

[SAGirl]

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[TimDunkem]

Well, you're the one that put this team together, jackass...

[Dennis the Menace]

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Haha. This front office is finally realizing what a horrible roster they’ve built and their archaic system’s ineptitude. It’s too late buddy. You should’ve retired 4 years ago.

[ZeusWillJudge]

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World Cup II

[acoelho1]

If they struggle out of the gate, there may be some positives in that an extension from DeRozan is not likely to happen and Pop may give the younger guys some more run during the season. However, it's still super early so not ready to draw any conclusions.

[SAGirl]

World Cup II
yea... Not a fan of The Great Yatch but somewhere he made a comment of imagine what Pop would do with a team whose best players were the 40 year old Scola and the 5'9" Campazzo and how far he would go with that team.

It's preseason but already hearing that it's going to be a "a long ass year" from Pop was not inspiring.

Again, it's preseason so we'll see... but wow.

[Darius Bieber]

Yeah, unfortunately with this roster and the way the West has gotten better, I seriously expect us to miss the playoffs. This team has mid to low-Western conference written all over it.

[FkLA]

Preseason doesn't usually give any real indication on the Spurs real status. Still, they played like shit.
I was mostly worried by the startes defensive mistakes, they kept compounding. Murray looks in great physical conditions though.

Also, I guess White is thinking: "what more do I have to do to start? I carried the team -after rushing back from an injury- for the best part of last season, and what I get is a boot?" Not sure is a good idea to snub him for Murray, at this stage.

Or start them together. Stagger their minutes throughout the game. Close with both of them.

Not everyone is Manu. White's doesn't have an ego, so in that regard he can handle being a 6th man but confidence wise it'll affect him.

[TDomination]

Or start them together. Stagger their minutes throughout the game. Close with both of them.

Not everyone is Manu. White's doesn't have an ego, so in that regard he can handle being a 6th man but confidence wise it'll affect him.

Honestly that is what I want to see. Murray and White start together, see what happens.

[NASpurs]

Honestly that is what I want to see. Murray and White start together, see what happens.

It’ll mean that any combination of Mills, Forbes and Beli will play together off the bench so any good that Murray/White did as starters will be squandered almost immediately.

[spurspl]

every roster combination will be shitty, i said that before and repeat once again spurs are not contender, management did a lot of mistakes (kawhi trade, this ofseason etc) and pop isnt that pop like we used to know. Time for a changes, i hope ddr, mills will be traded and spurs out of PO and get finally a top pick + timmy as a head coach after this season.

[KDKSpurs24]

Or start them together. Stagger their minutes throughout the game. Close with both of them.

Not everyone is Manu. White's doesn't have an ego, so in that regard he can handle being a 6th man but confidence wise it'll affect him.
You want Mills, Forbes and Bellinelli to share minutes together? Just to benefit White? That sounds selfish if you want that nightmare to happen just so he can start.
The whole purpose of him coming off the bench is to avoid that. People on here were killing Pop when he was playing all those guys together and he adjusted so they didn’t have to play together and now you want it to return?

[KDKSpurs24]

every roster combination will be shitty, i said that before and repeat once again spurs are not contender, management did a lot of mistakes (kawhi trade, this ofseason etc) and pop isnt that pop like we used to know. Time for a changes, i hope ddr, mills will be traded and spurs out of PO and get finally a top pick + timmy as a head coach after this season.
Morris really screwed ya badly. We were gonna have some competent roster combinations before he backed out..

[spurspl]

Morris really screwed ya badly. We were gonna have some competent roster combinations before he backed out..

even with morris this team wouldnt be significantly better. First of all we should have taken LAs deal for kawhi, second of all be more active on FAs market. These are fundamentla mistakes. Now we dont have an allstar caliber player nor young talented guys. Almost every nba team made a step forward by upgrading their squad in short or long term. Spurs? nothing.

[TheGoatishere]

Starting lineup needs to be

Murray
forbes
DDR
carrol
LMA

Bench rotation should be

Mills
white
Walker\Beli
Gay
poeltl

[r0drig0lac]

Starting lineup needs to be

Murray
forbes
DDR
carrol
LMA

Bench rotation should be

Mills
white
Walker\Beli
Gay
poeltl


Murray/Walker
White/Forbes
Demar/Keldon
Carroll/Gay
Aldridge/Poetl


Mills and Belli in limited minutes and never together on court can work, but as long as they are in the main rotation our perimeter defense will suck.

[John B]

Defense should get better come regular season, at least that’s what Pop promised to improve on from last year. And with our personnel, it should be. I pray they play less of Patty and Beli. Their defense is atrocious. It’s contagious if you see your teammate getting blown by. I mean that lets the air out. Defense should create transition offense, rebound, pushing the ball and dishing to open 3 if necessary. Murray needs to finish also and not just look to pass. Soon defense will relax on him and create double team on LA/?. He needs to aggressively take open shots if there. I don’t see any of the young rookies making it, so send them to Austin and start tightening the roster. Spurs cannot afford to lose winnable games. The West is so loaded, each win/loss could mean 2nd seed or 7th. GSG!

[FkLA]

You want Mills, Forbes and Bellinelli to share minutes together? Just to benefit White? That sounds selfish if you want that nightmare to happen just so he can start.
The whole purpose of him coming off the bench is to avoid that. People on here were killing Pop when he was playing all those guys together and he adjusted so they didn’t have to play together and now you want it to return?

Do you know what staggering their minutes means?

And in case you didn't notice, Mills-Forbes-Belli still shared the court at times yesterday. Having White come off the bench hasn't gotten rid of that.

[poopbox]

How long is the Derrick White confidence thing...going to be a thing? Dude basically won a playoff game by himself...was no worst than the second best player on the spurs overall that series...played for team USA...like what is he not confident about? Cause Pop is jerking his minutes? He did the same thing with Tony, with Manu, with Hill, with Kawhi...so I mean is this dude going to go into the tank because he doesn't start or one game he plays 13 minutes and one game he plays 22 minutes? I think he can be great but he needs to figure out how to keep his balls from contracting up into his butthole. Lonnie has played with WAY more confidence and when you listen to him talk in interviews you can tell he KNOWS its going to be an uphill battle for him to get any minutes at all this year over mills and belli...

Dejounte needs to take some of his swag and rub it on Whites 2nd or 3rd forehead or something...

[Chomag]

Yes it's a preseason game but that doesn't take away the fact that the Spurs overall are just plain bad looking. Hopefully they will get a wake up call sooner then later.

The fact that it seems DDR still hasn't worked on a 3pt shot should voice out any talks about extensions.

[UZER]

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When you are bombarded with “it’s just basketball, theres more important things” all the time from the head coach, what do you expect.

[TimDunkem]

There is no amount of staggering minutes that will save you from the shittiness that is Fatty, Belli, and Forbes (who can't defend well enough at any position especially the 2, and isn't good enough at handling the ball or running an offense to be a true PG).

[KDKSpurs24]

even with morris this team wouldnt be significantly better. First of all we should have taken LAs deal for kawhi, second of all be more active on FAs market. These are fundamentla mistakes. Now we dont have an allstar caliber player nor young talented guys. Almost every nba team made a step forward by upgrading their squad in short or long term. Spurs? nothing.
What LA deal? The one that doesn’t have any proof? The one that would have included Tobias Harris? So then we would just be maxing out Harris instead? Or wait... Harris leaves as a free agent? “Oh now we have a lot of cap space!” CAP SPACE FOR WHAT? Nobody of note would want to come to San Antonio so that cap space would have been used on overpaying current players and signing a few mediocre ones. We weren’t in really any good positions anyways.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

Can't lose Duncan, Leonard, Ginobili and Parker in a 3 year period and expect them to continue to be a title contender. Surprised they have been as good as they have been. Most teams sink to the bottom after losing their best players.

[KDKSpurs24]

Do you know what staggering their minutes means?

And in case you didn't notice, Mills-Forbes-Belli still shared the court at times yesterday. Having White come off the bench hasn't gotten rid of that.
Those were preseason rotations in the second half when DeMar, LA and DJ were done playing. Of course they would share the court in that case. In the regular season when those guys play 4 quarters that wouldn’t be the case.

[KDKSpurs24]

Can't lose Duncan, Leonard, Ginobili and Parker in a 3 year period and expect them to continue to be a title contender. Surprised they have been as good as they have been. Most teams sink to the bottom after losing their best players.
Exactly. Some people don’t understand how lucky we are. Sure we have been spoiled with titles. But we haven’t sinked to Charlotte level bad. Even the high and mighty Lakers were a bad team for years. But at least we have kept being competitive. If we attempted a hard rebuild and started losing a lot that would be torture and these “fans” wouldn’t be able to handle it.

[spurspl]

What LA deal? The one that doesn’t have any proof? The one that would have included Tobias Harris? So then we would just be maxing out Harris instead? Or wait... Harris leaves as a free agent? “Oh now we have a lot of cap space!” CAP SPACE FOR WHAT? Nobody of note would want to come to San Antonio so that cap space would have been used on overpaying current players and signing a few mediocre ones. We weren’t in really any good positions anyways.

nobody wants to come to play in spurs bc we dont have anything to offer. NO all star caliber player for at least couple pf years, NONE young prospects to build future around = no real chance to win a chip. Ofc there are still players who dont care about chip and yeah sure they will never come to play in san antonio. If we had tobias harris im more than sure that we could bring someone else and had a great duo. The only thing spurs could compete with other teams in signing new players is a real chances to win and great coaches - nothing else. Take a look what brought LMA to spurs- real chances to be at least in conference finals. Spus have to make some big moves if not, they will be still an average team.

[SpurPadre]

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This is pretty much the team we will have all year with no trades likely so hopefully they can get it together and play to the potential we think they have.

[timtonymanu]

A mediocre talent, poorly constructed roster is struggling? Shocking. The fact that we’re putting so much stock into 3 young guys carrying the team just tells you how much work the team needs. Just an antiquated system from a stubborn coach.

[BackHome]

:pop: "They're professionals. They shouldn't have to be inspired."

I think a lot of that falls on Pop they know he could care less if they win its more about conditioning and getting to jell as a team. Is that the right way not sure but I see no sense of urgency from players or coaches.

[TD 21]

All the usual caveats, but it's undeniable that every swing issue for this team doesn't look good . . .

- Starting Poeltl is insane. The last thing the starting lineup can afford is another non shooter, plus by starting their only 2 credible bigs, early foul trouble to one would put them in a bad spot.

- Predictably, shooting more 3s is clearly not being emphasized, as none of the players who need to are even making a token attempt to pretend. They're shooting so few right now that they'd basically need to play a near perfect game in every other area to have a chance in most games.

- Because of this, they're constantly having to rob Peter to pay Paul, with the end result being zero 2-way lineups.

- The youth looks overrated (not to be confused with bad). Walker is the only one who flashes go-to potential, but even he looks to be more in the vein of an empty calories type.

- Virtually everyone wants to see Walker over Belinelli (I'm no different), but can they really afford to excise one of their 3 legit threats from 3? They're already shooting them at dangerously low levels.

[RC_Drunkford]

Why the fuck is Pop starting Poeltl

[TheGreatYacht]

Makes zero sense having 4 dudes that can’t shoot 3’s in the same starting lineup. Fucking Pop and his system from the 90’s.

Starters:
Murray, White, DeRozan, Carroll, Aldridge

Bench:
Forbes, Walker, Johnson, Gay, Poeltl

Towel waiving crew:
Mills, Belinelli, Quinndary, Lyles, Luka

[kobyz]

We need a trade!

[Dejounte]

Poetl isnt the issue, and 3s arent either. Defense is and has been. Poetl is a plus on defense. DeMar being at the 3 and Forbes at the 2 is the real issue here. As well as playing terrible defensive players in Beli and Mills. Thinking making 3s was going to help us the last two games and moving forward is lack of basketball knowledge...

[Dejounte]

Starters:

Dejounte
DeMar
Trade Mills, Forbes, Beli for another 3 and D player
Aldridge
Poetl

Bench
White/ Quinndary
Walker
Carroll/ Johnson
Gay/ Luka
Metu/ Eubanks

[tbdog]

Poetl isnt the issue, and 3s arent either. Defense is and has been. Poetl is a plus on defense. DeMar being at the 3 and Forbes at the 2 is the real issue here. As well as playing terrible defensive players in Beli and Mills. Thinking making 3s was going to help us the last two games and moving forward is lack of basketball knowledge...

I think Carroll in for Poeltl and White in for Forbes would be my ideal go to here to solve this issue.

[SAGirl]

Poetl isnt the issue, and 3s arent either. Defense is and has been. Poetl is a plus on defense. DeMar being at the 3 and Forbes at the 2 is the real issue here. As well as playing terrible defensive players in Beli and Mills. Thinking making 3s was going to help us the last two games and moving forward is lack of basketball knowledge...
They only shot 13 3s last game and that’s not going to cut it but as they have to improve on so many things beginning with the coach and his rotations... From there on some players are underperforming, so one can’t draw conclusions.

If anything they have a lot to work on, and Pop needs to also look in the mirror and see what he’s having them run and such.

[monty4329]

Or start them together. Stagger their minutes throughout the game. Close with both of them.

Not everyone is Manu. White's doesn't have an ego, so in that regard he can handle being a 6th man but confidence wise it'll affect him.

I don't see anything that makes me thinking Murray should start, at least at the beginning of the season. White not only earned his spot, he can also shoot when needed.

You can't play in the NBA without an ego. Manu had his, accepted reclutantly to be the 6th man because the team was winning, and there were actual superstars in the team. White is being demoted to make room for a player I like, but who hasn't played for a year. You can bet White's ego is beaten up.

the coaching staff know more than we do, obviously.
Hope they are getting it right, but I have my doubts. What I do know is that it is extremely difficult to play both Murray and White together for significant minutes, the offensive limitations are evident. It might work for specific situations of small ball 5-out when the other three are killing it from 3 (probably never, with this roster).

[monty4329]

Starters:

Dejounte
DeMar
Trade Mills, Forbes, Beli for another 3 and D player
Aldridge
Poetl

Bench
White/ Quinndary
Walker
Carroll/ Johnson
Gay/ Luka
Metu/ Eubanks

How to try to win games scoring 64 points per game....

[Larry O]

I'm glad that I'm not the only one that has noticed for some time now that either the Spurs system or its players on this roster, or both, is not fitting in to compete for a championship. It makes me wonder if the players and coaches on this team, has also realized this possibility, and thus the "no-fire attitude" we have been noticing lately. In this past game, the team started out doing well, and then suddenly, Miami seemed to catch on and catch up. And that 3rd quarter start with Mills at the SG, perhaps as a scoring punch, seemed to backfire because Butler quickly saw the mismatch and took advantage of it and caught fire. Like some on this forum, I'm not trying my best to not to read too much into this because it's preseason, but if this current trend continues into the regular season, then yeah, it's going to be a looong, tough year. Let's cross our fingers, light up the candles, pray or whatever it takes, that this is just the preseason phase, but that tweet about Pop's concerns for the team's lack of competitiveness, does draw concern from us, the fanbase. Hmmm...

[Chinook]

Trading Forbes is beyond dumb right now. He needs to stay and keep starting. Only Walker has a chance to take his spot. Not Murray or White. Those guys have a lot of work to do on the offensive end before they can make up for the poor spacing they provide.

The Spurs would have been better off adding a second and cash to Beli to hold onto Bertans. Maybe with three rotation-caliber PFs on the roster, Pop wouldn't think to start Poeltl. Though I hope he's only doing that yo spare LMA's body until the regular season.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

TGY always with the truth bombs. The likes of Bryn, Marco, and Patty would be cut if they were on another team tbh. I swear pop loves his underwhelming pets. It's such a detriment to this team. Dude should hang it up. He can't evaluate talent for shit. I'm actually surprised a guy like lonnie is even on this roster, though, pop himself doesn't even know.

If Lonnie, Murray and White can step up this year, I'd say the Bryn, Marco and Patty crew will be relegated to the bench. I just think the young guns aren't good enough...yet. I hope they get there. There's a chance all six of those guys wouldn't sniff the court on some other teams. I would be Pop wants Walker, Murray and White out there.

[Dex]

Trading Forbes is beyond dumb right now. He needs to stay and keep starting. Only Walker has a chance to take his spot. Not Murray or White. Those guys have a lot of work to do on the offensive end before they can make up for the poor spacing they provide.

The Spurs would have been better off adding a second and cash to Beli to hold onto Bertans. Maybe with three rotation-caliber PFs on the roster, Pop wouldn't think to start Poeltl. Though I hope he's only doing that yo spare LMA's body until the regular season.

Anyone who thinks trading Forbes (the best shooter on a team severely lacking for shooters) is a good idea is obviously just a player fan.

Forbes BAD. Walker GOOD!

DeMar BAD! White GOOD!

[KobesAchilles]

Makes zero sense having 4 dudes that can’t shoot 3’s in the same starting lineup. Fucking Pop and his system from the 90’s.

Starters:
Murray, White, DeRozan, Carroll, Aldridge

Bench:
Forbes, Walker, Johnson, Gay, Poeltl

Towel waiving crew:
Mills, Belinelli, Quinndary, Lyles, Luka

Exactly this. It isn’t even debatable that these are the needed rotations.

[RC_Drunkford]

Makes zero sense having 4 dudes that can’t shoot 3’s in the same starting lineup. Fucking Pop and his system from the 90’s.

Starters:
Murray, White, DeRozan, Carroll, Aldridge

Bench:
Forbes, Walker, Johnson, Gay, Poeltl

Towel waiving crew:
Mills, Belinelli, Quinndary, Lyles, Luka

Flopovich gon need at least 20 games before he figures this out

[r0drig0lac]

Flopovich gon need at least 20 games before he figures this out

and yet he will not use this rotation

[TimDunkem]

Yeah, I don't see Pop giving up on the 2 big lineup anytime soon and, if he does, I'm sure he'll find his way back to it. He can't let it go.