What I'm Actually Worried About After the Bad Start to Preseason

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/what-to-worry-about-after-spurs-bad-preseason-start/

I want to think it's just meaningless preseason play but I think there are some legit worries to have right now.

[RD2191]

This may finally be the year...

[GusT15]

This may finally be the year...

Yep,unfortunately it's starting to look like the year.

[timtonymanu]

Seems to me more of a coaching issue than anything else. The roster is already constructed poorly so Mr. “It’s only basketball” needs to stick to a gameplan. Either give your team the best shot at succeeding or be stubborn and stick to a lineup that doesn’t work so you can try proving to the league that the antiquated system still works.

[SAGirl]

I was surprised how bad they looked at times last season as well. They had a sort of Jekyll and Hyde vibe going on... which IMO was impacted by White sometimes being out of the rotation (injuries) and their defense plummeting, but also having had Cunningham in the team early in the season. Too soon to tell if Pop will insist with the LMA/Jakob duo bc I think bench play has also been affected (as you point out, White/Jakob could be a good way to return the bench to what it was last season). It's possibly the reason White has struggled so much to adapt to the new role and it's nothing to do with a mental block bc of #the demotion but chemistry is not all there/thus impacting confidence, + the lack of a rolling big man. The bench shooters are also not shooting as much. Mills and Belli were taking midrange jumpers from what I saw in highlights and there is no one to cover up the bench defensively.

Perhaps Pop simply wants to see how some players performs in some situations, but it clearly needs some adjusting on his part too. Perhaps he played the soft card too soon as well, which may result in players tuning him out when he really means it.

If things go south quickly, Walker will definitely enter into the rotation bc you have to stir the pot and see what comes out.

Thanks for the comment particularly your observation of lack of rolling big impacting White's play and the general bench play is interesting.

I wonder if Lyles or Carrol at some point will enter consideration for a starting gig too.

[Genovaswitness]

damn I wish the spurs worked harder to keep kawhi

[TD 21]

I get that they want manage Gay's minutes (trade for Marvin Williams or Bjelica midseason to alleviate this) and have him be more of a featured scorer off the bench, but as I've been saying since the infamous trade, this team doesn't need a designated go-to scorer on the 2nd unit.

Not only do the pieces fit (presuming they go Belinelli over Walker to start, White and Poeltl running PnR with 2.5 shooters orbiting them), but the collective IQ of that unit will make for the whole being greater than the sum of its parts.

Instead, he's determined to attempt to recreate the past (by starting Aldridge at "PF" and having Gay be the Horry/Diaw to Poeltl's Oberto/Splitter) and destroy both units.

[Ondrej]

I was surprised how bad they looked at times last season as well. They had a sort of Jekyll and Hyde vibe going on
Pop is just not as strict and ambitious as he once was. So the team full of loyalty contracts and leaders like De Rozan and Aldridge just lacks motivation and competitiveness each and every game, especially comparing with young teams. Remember that year after Ray Allen's 3 and the next year's first-round loss. Same players, different team

[baseline bum]

Point #4 is what I'm most worried about. I don't see how DeRozan and Murray can coexist together, and giving DeRozan a max extension would be unbelievably stupid. If they want DeRozan back they need to trade Murray. A starting lineup with four complete trash three point shooters is suicide in 2019.

[JuneJive]

Will DeMar even start taking threes is the question, let alone making them.


I really don't think he gets extended. Would be a premature move.

[dabom6]

Its preseason faggot. :lmao

[Russ]

One thing you didn't mention Timvp -- the slowness, lack of athleticism.

Many of the current problems can be fixed, but I worry about this team getting run off the floor.

Murray can help a lot on this front.

Also, letting Bertans go doesn't seem so bad given this team's lack of quickness.

In short, I trust this organization a lot to remedy this, or any other, deficiency. At least for now.

[tbdog]

Interesting take. Haven't watch enough pre season to comment on what the issues are. But spacing is obvious in that first unit. Murray is getting to the paint pretty easily atm.

[acoelho1]

I don't get signing DeRozan to a max at this point. He's on a different timeline than Murray, Walker, White and the rookies. Another problem with DeRozan is his iso ball and thinking he's Kobe out there which especially hurts the team at the end of games. It would never happen but you could make an argument that starting White over DeRozan would make us a better team on both ends.

[weebo]

the preseason doesn't mean shit FOH :lol

[poopbox]

Signing Derozan to any type of extension is so asinine that I just assumed its stuff they put out there because it was only a matter of time before the media started focusing on it...

Derozan is not on this teams timeline and really every rep he gets is a rep that lonnie, keldon, luka, don't...which means he is really just in the way...

I wish this front office wasn't so wrapped up and making the playoffs and saving face over the kawhi trade and just did what was right and logical in the first place and just tried to trade him for young players and picks instead of "another allstar"...

If what boston offered was true and the spurs didn't take that then man...

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

The biggest problem is Gay, Carroll and Lyles. None of them are going to be able to give minutes at SF when DeRozan goes out and if they do we will get blown out in those games. Gay is to slow and will only be able to play PF the Achilles injury will catch up to him this season. I'll be surprised if he plays more than 40 games. Carroll is also to slow, has never been that great of a player to begin with and at 35 years old he's on the decline. Lyles is Austin Daye 2.0 We need a consistent 3rd scorer to play with Aldridge and DeRozan.

[DMC]

I bet Kawhi is regretting his decision to leave now.

[TimDunkem]

^ :lmao

[Fireball]

just listened to a german podcast and the expert is always backing the Spurs and the system, but he also does not expect them to make the playoffs

[EasyMoney]

Jakob has more than earned his right to start. But honestly pop needs to bench him and see what the starting lineup can do with rudy starting.

Murray
Forbes
Derozan
Gay
Aldridge

White
Mills
Belinelli
Carroll
Poeltl

With lonnie on standby if you need to yank someone quick. Or swap caroll and gay if you want to keep that offensive punch when the bench unit comes in. You can spare the first 2-3 games to experiment since it's the Knicks and the wizards.

[Fireball]

Lonnie instead of Mills/Belli ... then at least I would look forward to watch games

[SAGirl]

just listened to a german podcast and the expert is always backing the Spurs and the system, but he also does not expect them to make the playoffs
If they look like they will miss the playoffs they need to do what Memphis did. Trade out your vets and try to get assets back (traded Gasol and Conley when it looked like their playoff runs around them as a tandem were over). No point keeping Lamarcus and Derozan if they will miss the playoffs. Get what you can and move on. It wouldn't be the worst thing. The team needs a fresh start and it may happen regardless of their efforts to "stay competitive". Keeping in purgatory only delays a rebuild that they need to do.

[SAGirl]

Jakob has more than earned his right to start. But honestly pop needs to bench him and see what the starting lineup can do with rudy starting.

Murray
Forbes
Derozan
Gay
Aldridge

White
Mills
Belinelli
Carroll
Poeltl

With lonnie on standby if you need to yank someone quick. Or swap caroll and gay if you want to keep that offensive punch when the bench unit comes in. You can spare the first 2-3 games to experiment since it's the Knicks and the wizards.
I have thought about Jakob and I think that Pop starting him, specially early in the season is necessary to ascertain his value $ to the team. If he proves to be unplayable with the other starters even in the regular season bc of fit issues, the team then they can't offer him a starting level contract in free agency. For example, even when Tiago had to come off the bench in the playoffs bc of spacing issues, he still started a lot of games next to Timmy Duncan and spared his body in his twilight, probably allowing Tim to be fresher for the playoffs. Perhaps Pop is hoping Jakob can do that for LMA in the regular season and that has some value. Also even if they were to rebuild, Jakob's youth indicates he's worth keeping but they really have to know for sure what he's got as a regular starter.

[Dennis the Menace]

I’m afraid that Pop’s legacy is what’s holding up the rebuild. The irony is that without Tim and Kawhi carrying him, his castle is crashing down and exposing him. These years post Kawhi are going to do some damage to his legacy

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Signing DeRozan to a max extension when this team has to scrape to make the post season and isn't even a favorite to make it out of the first round anytime soon is a dumb move. I'd rather take my chances with keeping my core young players and signing skilled role players around them than I would maxing DeRozan, just so I can play 5 or six post season games.

Dumb.

Pop's going to squash his legacy going that route, because I'm not sure this group even can make the playoffs. He'd be better off taking a young group through a minor rebuild, and making some noise with a group of fresh faces.

[RC_Drunkford]

if Pop starts Poeltl throughout the season there is no hope. We all know what the line ups should be, but it will take a losing streak or Tim Duncan convincing him to make some changes before we see him adjust

[DAF86]

Pop is done, tbh.

[Brazil]

Pop is done, tbh.

the classical pop is done, same song every year during the last 10 years... one day the song will turn out to be true

[Larry O]

What I can see is that at the start of the season, the Starting lineup will be: Murray, Forbes, DeRozan, LMA & JP25. But as this team will struggle with scoring & even with defense, I can see Pop's Mad Scientist mind at work to experiment with different line-ups to see what works best. I agree with most that RG22 needs to start at the 4 & LMA at the 5, & I'm sure that with some team matchups, we will see this starting lineup. Gay will give this team, a scoring punch, either from the perimeter or in the paint mismatches. I'm concerned about him staying healthy, though. I guess that's why Lyles & Carroll are there, but this team will monitor RG22's minutes. We'll see... GSG!!!

[DAF86]

the classical pop is done, same song every year during the last 10 years... one day the song will turn out to be true

I've never said it 'till now, tbh.

[Russ]

Another thing not mentioned up to now is lack of leadership.

Aldridge and Derozan are not natural leaders.

Of the young guns, only Murray and maybe Forbes show leadership potential (Walker and White look dubious at best).

Lack of leadership on the squad was one of the main reasons TD was brought in as a coach (my take, at least).

Murray and Forbes may continue in the starting lineup, in part, because of the leadership factor.

[spurspl]

im glad that finally some of u has opened eyes and see in how bad situation spurs are. #rebuild

[Dex]

im glad that finally some of u has opened eyes and see in how bad situation spurs are. #rebuild

What do you think we have been doing since Kawhi left? We were lucky to have a year of contention after Tim left...then Kawhi decided to bitch out.

Spurs aren't the type of team to tank for the lottery (barring a season of catastrophic injuries). They will rebuild on the fly and hope for the best, and the formula has proven itself over the last 30-years or so.

Granted, I don't agree with maxing DeRozan at this point...but so far, this is what a Spurs rebuild looks like.

[gambit1990]

pop is done... but will also be a contender for CotY due catching the media's attention by keeping this roster afloat. they can overachieve in the RS but flame out in the POs.

and unfortunately, that baseline of success will keep pop set in his ways... it's exactly what has transpired since last season.

[gambit1990]

it was reported the spurs had interest in porzingis last season... they should've found a way to pull the trigger.

should've moved demar and la last year, acquire KP, miss POs/acquire a better draft pick.

spurs could've come into this season with a healthy murray, KP, and whatever they could've gotten for demar and la / their better draft pick.

too much risk aversion by this team.

demar and la aren't getting any younger...

[Collins21]

it was reported the spurs had interest in porzingis last season... they should've found a way to pull the trigger.

should've moved demar and la last year, acquire KP, miss POs/acquire a better draft pick.

spurs could've come into this season with a healthy murray, KP, and whatever they could've gotten for demar and la / their better draft pick.

I agree with that trade but let some posters on here tell Murray is pure garbage.

too much risk aversion by this team.

demar and la aren't getting any younger...

[Ibleedslvrnblk]

So if we look at the playoff teams from last year...OKC out and LAL in...

Does GSW make it? If so then is it between Spurs and Sacramento for 8th? If GSW cannot make it which I don't believe they will, Spurs are fine. I still think they are fine

[Ninja Roach]

This may finally be the year...


:depressed

That we miss the playoffs?

[keithington1]

Samanic needs to start at sf or pf or get a lot of minutes

[itzsoweezee]

Pop is just not as strict and ambitious as he once was. So the team full of loyalty contracts and leaders like De Rozan and Aldridge just lacks motivation and competitiveness each and every game, especially comparing with young teams. Remember that year after Ray Allen's 3 and the next year's first-round loss. Same players, different team

No better example if this than game 7 last year. I don't know how any Spurs fan that watched that uninspired play could get excited about bringing back, essentially, the same group of players.

[tim_duncan_fan]

This season is about seeing the young guys and finding out what we have in them.

DeRozan is only good enough to keep a team with a second B-level all-star at .500. He's not worth big money. We can't extend him.

If we have a bunch of nothings in the young guys, so be it, but we know DeRozan isnt much of a difference maker in terms of post-season winning potential.

[tmtcsc]

No better example if this than game 7 last year. I don't know how any Spurs fan that watched that uninspired play could get excited about bringing back, essentially, the same group of players.

But Dejounte Murray! He's going to have a breakout year! He's an All NBA Defensive player...blah blah blah This team lacks character and cohesiveness. They are a bunch of individuals linked together by fading connections of seasons' past. They're all gone. Fucking sad. No Tim, Manu, Kawhi, Parker, Bowen, Horry, Diaw..

[spurspl]

What do you think we have been doing since Kawhi left? We were lucky to have a year of contention after Tim left...then Kawhi decided to bitch out.

Spurs aren't the type of team to tank for the lottery (barring a season of catastrophic injuries). They will rebuild on the fly and hope for the best, and the formula has proven itself over the last 30-years or so.

Granted, I don't agree with maxing DeRozan at this point...but so far, this is what a Spurs rebuild looks like.

u should put pressure on PATFO to make a better moves. First they should have been criticized after a terrible kawhi trade and an absence during the offseason. Second of all it worked over the last 30yrs only because we had two first round picks in timmy and david + a great “cheap” support in tony, manu, bowen, horry etc. Now we have nothing and i guarantee u that it is not going to work.

[Pavlov]

:lol "pressure"

[spurspl]

:lol "pressure"

u really dont think that fans dont have any impact on organization? its enough to f.e not buying tickets, shirts and start posting on social media about bad situation. The more fans do that the better chances are. Just stop supporting and stop saying that everything is great bc 2months ago most of u were saying that spurs are contender or pop should stay XD u r funny guys

[Pavlov]

u really dont think that fans dont have any impact on organization? its enough to f.e not buying tickets, shirts and start posting on social media about bad situation. The more fans do that the better chances are. Just stop supporting and stop saying that everything is great bc 2months ago most of u were saying that spurs are contender or pop should stay XD u r funny guysWho said the Spurs are contenders?

You said most of us. Give examples.

[Dverde]

It could be worse. Imagine extending LMA, Murray, and DeRozan then being a middle of the pack lottery team. I still have hope for the season.

[Zohan2139]

We will find out what kind of season it will be by mid December. If after 26 regular season games the Spurs are 10-16. Start looking to trade the vets and go younger. These team doesn't seem to be motivated. And obviously popovich doesn't care enough anymore about winning games. Time to step down and give the keys to Becky and stay president. Go young and see what happens with. Team might lose more games but they will be fun to watch.

[mookie2001]

Our head coach might be done but he’ll be back in the NBA finals again. Guaranteed

[Prime BEEF]

Think pop’s pride is getting in the way here and not wanting to admit failure WRT the kawhitter situation by trading away DeRozan.

[spurspl]

Who said the Spurs are contenders?

You said most of us. Give examples.

probably u werent following all posts about pop, trades etc on this forum. Read and u will see. Over 70% readers was against to fire pop. Lots of posts about how great murray and white will be. Ofc maybe they will but
not in this season. Spurs roster looks fucking poor compering to another teams - no present no future. The best time to rebuild was when kawhi wanted to leave and PATFO should take young players to maximize chances of having an all star player(s) in a near future. Now we aint even have any assets to make a good trade with anyone. The only way i see is tanking for top picks.

[R. DeMurre]

Advanced stats show that DeRozan and Forbes both had very average On Court numbers (+0.2 and -0.2) and the worst Off Court numbers among players with significant minutes (+4.9 and +4.30). Basketball Reference's #s are slightly different than 82games.com's, but both agree that DeRozan and Forbes have issues with regard to on floor impact. They should both, in theory, be bench players. For both players over the course of the entire season, the offense and defense were slightly better when they were off the floor. It's a pretty damning statement/statistic that a 48 win team consistently played slightly better when their #1 and #3 leaders in minutes per game were off the floor. In the playoffs, DeRozan's negative impact was dramatically amplified, with an astounding -25.8 on/off court number, by far the worst on the team, and one of the worst among all starters in the entire playoffs. For the Spurs to come withing one minute of beating the Nuggets in a seven game series with their minutes leader having numbers that bad really says a lot...



http://www.82games.com/1819/1819SAS.HTM
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/2019.html

[spurspl]

u dont need this stats to see how bad ddr is

[Collins21]

u dont need this stats to see how bad ddr is

Ok this dude takes his team to the playoffs every year. He's not Kawhi but who else is. Most of y'all would rather have Bradley Beal but he can't even get his team to the playoffs.

[RC_Drunkford]

Ok this dude takes his team to the playoffs every year. He's not Kawhi but who else is. Most of y'all would rather have Bradley Beal but he can't even get his team to the playoffs.

WTF are you Smoking? Aldridge got this Team into the Playoffs by himself, not DeFrozan. And on the Raptors he had Lowry. Put him with Wall on the Wizards and he's lottery bound

[Collins21]

WTF are you Smoking? Aldridge got this Team into the Playoffs by himself, not DeFrozan. And on the Raptors he had Lowry. Put him with Wall on the Wizards and he's lottery bound

Yeah ok Derozan was always the best player on those Raptors teams let's see if Lowry takes that team the 2nd round. Yeah Aldridge is the best player on the team by far yet y'all send the whole season calling that man a bum/scrub but want to praise him to to downplay Derozan.

[illusioNtEk]

it’s preseason and people already bitching.... omfg you guys will never learn.... bump this thread midway after all star game then we can see where we are at.

[phxspurfan]

Haven’t been watching, but soft card in the preseason and Lonnie not getting minutes is indeed worrisome. And Purrtl should be with a guy who can run PnR like White, for sure. Totally agreed on swapping Purrtl and Gay. So many pieces to fit together in lineups with this team.

[Capt Bringdown]

Rudy Gay sucks.
Who knew?

[duncan2k5]

Another thing not mentioned up to now is lack of leadership.

Aldridge and Derozan are not natural leaders.

Of the young guns, only Murray and maybe Forbes show leadership potential (Walker and White look dubious at best).

Lack of leadership on the squad was one of the main reasons TD was brought in as a coach (my take, at least).

Murray and Forbes may continue in the starting lineup, in part, because of the leadership factor.

Forbes a leader? He hangs his head after every missed shot... GTFOH

[RC_Drunkford]

Yeah ok Derozan was always the best player on those Raptors teams let's see if Lowry takes that team the 2nd round. Yeah Aldridge is the best player on the team by far yet y'all send the whole season calling that man a bum/scrub but want to praise him to to downplay Derozan.

I never said that about Aldridge. Spurs won 47 games with him, added DeRozan and won 48. LA is clearly still the best player on the team and this is the West not the East. Making the Playoffs in the East is a cakewalk

[tbdog]

To be fair, Spurs got the injury bug after the trade happen. Had some roster imbalance and injuries.

[Russ]

Forbes a leader? He hangs his head after every missed shot... GTFOH

You're right, he'll get plenty of chances to hang his head.

(He's a starter, you know.)

:lol

[TD 21]

Yeah ok Derozan was always the best player on those Raptors teams let's see if Lowry takes that team the 2nd round. Yeah Aldridge is the best player on the team by far yet y'all send the whole season calling that man a bum/scrub but want to praise him to to downplay Derozan.

:lmao No, Lowry was always the best player on those Raptors teams and they were generally at their best with him + their 2nd unit.

DeRozan is the most overrated player in the league to casuals because he looks/stylistically plays the part of a stereotypical star, replete with the counting stats to fool them.

[TimDunkem]

it’s preseason and people already bitching.... omfg you guys will never learn.... bump this thread midway after all star game then we can see where we are at.

You seriously think this team is taking a leap when just about every western conference team got better? We added back one young guy (Murray) who still can't shoot into a lineup that can't shoot. Whoop-dee-fuckin'-doo.

[TimDunkem]

:lmao No, Lowry was always the best player on those Raptors teams and they were generally at their best with him + their 2nd unit.

DeRozan is the most overrated player in the league to casuals because he looks/stylistically plays the part of a stereotypical star, replete with the counting stats to fool them.

Don't bother. These guys will eat any shit sandwich PATFO serves up. I guarantee though that if you go back to when Gay and DD were Raptors and LMA was Portland's best player that their tune about these guys was very different.

[NASpurs]

Don't bother. These guys will eat any shit sandwich PATFO serves up. I guarantee though that if you go back to when Gay and DD were Raptors and LMA was Portland's best player that their tune about these guys was very different.

All I remember about LMA in Portland is Splitter doing a number on him defensively back in the 2014 playoffs. Good times.

[TD 21]

All I remember about LMA in Portland is Splitter doing a number on him defensively back in the 2014 playoffs. Good times.

You don't remember him/them repeatedly killing the Spurs while the genius regularly tried to have big wings defend him (as if he were Nowitzki)? It took him a while to figure out that Splitter was the obvious match-up.

[3&D_TBH]

Too early to know what the real deal is. We won’t have a solid snapshot to really analyze until 15-20 games into the regular season. Pour a drink and chill until we have more information. That said, I’m in the camp that wants to see Lonnie get minutes. It’s fun to root for potential.

[TimDunkem]

Too early to know what the real deal is. We won’t have a solid snapshot to really analyze until 15-20 games into the regular season. Pour a drink and chill until we have more information. That said, I’m in the camp that wants to see Lonnie get minutes. It’s fun to root for potential.

No doubt, but when you just know that Mills and Belinelli are going to steal his minutes then it's hard to get excited for Lonnie too.

[Collins21]

Don't bother. These guys will eat any shit sandwich PATFO serves up. I guarantee though that if you go back to when Gay and DD were Raptors and LMA was Portland's best player that their tune about these guys was very different.

you continuously call Aldridge a bum but that dude shitted on the Spurs plenty of times he got shut down by Splitter after killing Dwight a 3x defensive player of the year. I won't argue to hard on DeRozan because he is what he is. If the Spurs had 2011 Gay on that 2010-2011 Spurs I guarantee they make the finals that year. Rudy Gay would have been a way better player if drafted by the Spurs. To sit here and say he is talentless is far from he truth.

[Collins21]

I never said that about Aldridge. Spurs won 47 games with him, added DeRozan and won 48. LA is clearly still the best player on the team and this is the West not the East. Making the Playoffs in the East is a cakewalk

Fair point but all you hear on this forum from a lot of people is shit like "Oh dedmon is better than Aldridge" Like I said I could take or leave Derozan but Aldridge is a great player and the amount of disrespect he gets on here is crazy.

[TimDunkem]

you continuously call Aldridge a bum but that dude shitted on the Spurs plenty of times he got shut down by Splitter after killing Dwight a 3x defensive player of the year. I won't argue to hard on DeRozan because he is what he is. If the Spurs had 2011 Gay on that 2010-2011 Spurs I guarantee they make the finals that year. Rudy Gay would have been a way better player if drafted by the Spurs. To sit here and say he is talentless is far from he truth.

I don't call Aldridge a bum. His game is ugly as fuck though, and is a shitty fit next to DD.

[TimDunkem]

Fair point but all you hear on this forum from a lot of people is shit like "Oh dedmon is better than Aldridge" Like I said I could take or leave Derozan but Aldridge is a great player and the amount of disrespect he gets on here is crazy.

Literally no one has ever said Dedmon is better than Aldridge. Please gtfoh with that.

[Collins21]

Literally no one has ever said Dedmon is better than Aldridge. Please gtfoh with that.

bullshit!!

[timtonymanu]

Don't bother. These guys will eat any shit sandwich PATFO serves up. I guarantee though that if you go back to when Gay and DD were Raptors and LMA was Portland's best player that their tune about these guys was very different.

I think it was funny when some said Demar was an upgrade over kawhi :lol

[TimDunkem]

bullshit!!

Quote someone. I'll wait.

[Collins21]

Quote someone. I'll wait.

It maybe wasn't said but it was definitely implied.

[TimDunkem]

It maybe wasn't said but it was definitely implied.

No it wasn't. Wishing Dedmon was kept over the corpse of Gasol is not the same as claiming he's better than LMA.

[timtonymanu]

No it wasn't. Wishing Dedmon was kept over the corpse of Gasol is not the same as claiming he's better than LMA.

Essentially what was said. No one said keep Dedmon over LMA but some on here gotta stretch things for their agenda.

[Collins21]

Essentially what was said. No one said keep Dedmon over LMA but some on here gotta stretch things for their agenda.

So y'all don't say LMA is a scrub who's so bad he ran off Kawhi?

[r0drig0lac]

So y'all don't say LMA is a scrub who's so bad he ran off Kawhi?

wtf

[spurs10]

Yeah I think the starting unit is going to need someone who can shoot from the outside and fight for boards. Gay in SL is great idea.

[LittleCriminal]

When do they hand out the NBA Preseason Championship Trophy?

[3&D_TBH]

Yup. It’s frustrating for sure.

[Barfunk]

Are we that bad? I rarely watch preason games, tbh....

[TheChillFactor]

I'm not worried about any of it except the possible DeRozan extension.

He is fucking garbage and doesn't fit next to White/Murray who should be the focal points for the next few years.

I haven't disliked a Spur this much since RJ.

[Genovaswitness]

I'm not worried about any of it except the possible DeRozan extension.

He is fucking garbage and doesn't fit next to White/Murray who should be the focal points for the next few years.

I haven't disliked a Spur this much since RJ.

B-but 20/6/6 :lmao

[Prime BEEF]

Without any injuries, will be tough to make the playoffs. If the team really starts to gel then a 7th seed finish becomes a real possibility. The west has more parody this year. Will be a tough season.

[8FOR!3]

I think the starting unit needs Aldridge playing center and Poeltl coming off the bench. Doesn't matter who you start at the 4, Gay or Carroll.

[BackHome]

I'm not worried about any of it except the possible DeRozan extension.

He is fucking garbage and doesn't fit next to White/Murray who should be the focal points for the next few years.

I haven't disliked a Spur this much since RJ.

+ 1

[rjv]

one can never tell with preseason games but there are some bad signs in regards to what appears to be any consistent offensive punch. that and the west is brutal.

[TimD]

I remember us playing straight Garbo in the preseason of 2014. I recall thinking we were done then, having attended the game against Phoenix (which was relatively competitive). As a precursor to the next year where we did lose to a Euro-League team, we barely beat CSKA Moscow. Basically, preseasons indicate nothing.

[cd021]

Yeah I think the starting unit is going to need someone who can shoot from the outside and fight for boards. Gay in SL is great idea.

Prefer Carroll tbh, higher volume 3pt shooter that doesn't need the ball as much, better defender. Keeps Gay off the bench as a 6th or 7th man.

Surprised that pop hasn't started Carroll from jump, he makes more sense than Jakob in the SL.

[RC_Drunkford]

Prefer Carroll tbh, higher volume 3pt shooter that doesn't need the ball as much, better defender. Keeps Gay off the bench as a 6th or 7th man.

Surprised that pop hasn't started Carroll from jump, he makes more sense than Jakob in the SL.

Both Gay and Carroll make more sense than starting Poeltl. Poeltl just messes the spacing up. This comes down to the senile headcoach still insisting on starting 2 bigs when he's supposed to go small. I guess he thinks it doesn't matter much cause at the 6 min mark he gon sub in Gay and the team plays small from then on for the rest of the half. Maybe he just wants to establish LA early and give him the missmatch for the first 6 min of every half. I still think the Spurs should play with 1 big all the time, but Pop seems to think otherwise

[rjv]

i think i'll wait until the first game of the season to make comments on our starting lineups and rotations because that's when we'll know for certain.

[TD 21]

We've been over this ad nauseam, but no matter how you slice it, the roster doesn't make sense. Instead of beating their heads against the wall and trying to slog their way to another uninspiring, high 40s win, 1 and done in the playoffs, season, they need to grow a pair of balls and change it in a significant way.

It doesn't even have to be re-building, it could be three-way trades where DeRozan goes to a team like the Pistons or Thunder and they end up with Hayward or Paul. Whatever, just do something to make sense of the roster.



Both Gay and Carroll make more sense than starting Poeltl. Poeltl just messes the spacing up. This comes down to the senile headcoach still insisting on starting 2 bigs when he's supposed to go small. I guess he thinks it doesn't matter much cause at the 6 min mark he gon sub in Gay and the team plays small from then on for the rest of the half. Maybe he just wants to establish LA early and give him the missmatch for the first 6 min of every half. I still think the Spurs should play with 1 big all the time, but Pop seems to think otherwise

Not to shoot the messenger, but for a team with as little margin for error as this one, throwing roughly 12 mpg in the garbage does matter.

That doesn't make any sense. Whether Aldridge starts as the nominal "PF" or not, the opposition is going to defend him with their best post defender.

[baseline bum]

I'm not worried about any of it except the possible DeRozan extension.

He is fucking garbage and doesn't fit next to White/Murray who should be the focal points for the next few years.

I haven't disliked a Spur this much since RJ.

DeRozan isn't a total piece of shit like Jefferson was. He's just a really really really bad fit who could probably be an above average starter on a lot of other teams.

[RC_Drunkford]

Not to shoot the messenger, but for a team with as little margin for error as this one, throwing roughly 12 mpg in the garbage does matter.

That doesn't make any sense. Whether Aldridge starts as the nominal "PF" or not, the opposition is going to defend him with their best post defender.

Sure, I was just trying to wrap my head around why this senile grandpa thinks Poeltl has to start

[cd021]

Both Gay and Carroll make more sense than starting Poeltl. Poeltl just messes the spacing up. This comes down to the senile headcoach still insisting on starting 2 bigs when he's supposed to go small. I guess he thinks it doesn't matter much cause at the 6 min mark he gon sub in Gay and the team plays small from then on for the rest of the half. Maybe he just wants to establish LA early and give him the missmatch for the first 6 min of every half. I still think the Spurs should play with 1 big all the time, but Pop seems to think otherwise

Starting Poeltl is mostly an issue because of what it does to the bench.

As Is:
Murray, Forbes, DDR, LMA, Jakob
Mills, White, Carroll, Gay

Should Be:
Murray, Forbes, DDR, Carroll, LMA
Mills, White, Belinelli , Gay, Jakob

Starting Poeltl means one wing gets squeezed out of the rotation, probably Beli, who's shooting is desperately needed. Without him in the rotation, I doubt they even attempt 23 3pt per game which is even worse than their attempts per game last season- where they ranked last.

Carroll playing behind DDR means he'll play only around 16 mpg, as opposed to starting or playing behind Gay which would be around 22 mpg. That limits his value to the team. Starting him means the Spurs could space with Murray, Forbes and Carroll and have LMA come out and screen for DDR.

DDR is an excellent setting up Aldridge in pick and pop situations and Aldridge could get wide open 3's or DDR could have an advantage with Aldridge's man being the only line of defense between him and the rim. That could be a lethal attack with 3 other shooters around him.

[Joseph Kony]

Poeltl, as much as i like him, needs to go back to the bench, especially if White is in the Manu role. Gay or Carroll should be starting next to LA w/ DD at the 3. Idk why Pop insists on trying to use a two big lineup in 2020 when the SL has no space already

[sasaint]

Starting Poeltl is mostly an issue because of what it does to the bench.

As Is:
Murray, Forbes, DDR, LMA, Jakob
Mills, White, Carroll, Gay

Should Be:
Murray, Forbes, DDR, Carroll, LMA
Mills, Belinelli, Carroll, Gay, Jakob

Starting Poeltl means one wing gets squeezed out of the rotation, probably Beli, who's shooting is desperately needed. Without him in the rotation, I doubt they even attempt 23 3pt per game which is even worse than their attempts per game last season- where they ranked last.

Carroll playing behind DDR means he'll play only around 16 mpg, as opposed to starting or playing behind Gay which would be around 22 mpg. That limits his value to the team. Starting him means the Spurs could space with Murray, Forbes and Carroll and have LMA come out and screen for DDR.

DDR is an excellent setting up Aldridge in pick and pop situations and Aldridge could get wide open 3's or DDR could have an advantage with Aldridge's man being the only line of defense between him and the rim. That could be a lethal attack with 3 other shooters around him.

Agree. White has no place on this team.

[SpurSpike]

Poeltl, as much as i like him, needs to go back to the bench, especially if White is in the Manu role. Gay or Carroll should be starting next to LA w/ DD at the 3. Idk why Pop insists on trying to use a two big lineup in 2020 when the SL has no space already

I think he tries 2 bigs to make LMA happy. Iv heard LMA doesnt really like playing center. If it doesn't work i don't think it will stick but he had to try it if only to make LMA content.

[RC_Drunkford]

Starting Poeltl is mostly an issue because of what it does to the bench.

As Is:
Murray, Forbes, DDR, LMA, Jakob
Mills, White, Carroll, Gay

Should Be:
Murray, Forbes, DDR, Carroll, LMA
Mills, Belinelli, Carroll, Gay, Jakob


If you ask me what it should be is:

Murray, Forbes, DeRozan, Carroll, LMA
White, Weatherspoon, Walker, Gay, Poeltl

I'd also prefer to start Carroll since you can have him guard the opposing best wing player, the LeBrons, Nephews, etc. instead of letting DeRozan do it.
But that bench line up would clamp down everybody. I know Weatherspoon is only signed to a 2-way, but if they signed him to a full contract and he'd get 20 games under his belt he would already have a bigger impact than 50 Mills or Belinelli since Weatherspoon is a better defender and playmaker and can basically shoot as good as they can.

The thing with Walker is that it seems like Pop has told him to not be aggressive. He needs the green light that he had in summer league. There's a good chance that he can get those same buckets against opposing bench line ups. White also has to be way more aggressive on offense coming off the bench.

[cd021]

Agree. White has no place on this team.

:lmao, I forgot about White.

[cd021]

If you ask me what it should be is:

Murray, Forbes, DeRozan, Carroll, LMA
White, Weatherspoon, Walker, Gay, Poeltl

I'd also prefer to start Carroll since you can have him guard the opposing best wing player, the LeBrons, Nephews, etc. instead of letting DeRozan do it.
But that bench line up would clamp down everybody. I know Weatherspoon is only signed to a 2-way, but if they signed him to a full contract and he'd get 20 games under his belt he would already have a bigger impact than 50 Mills or Belinelli since Weatherspoon is a better defender and playmaker and can basically shoot as good as they can.

The thing with Walker is that it seems like Pop has told him to not be aggressive. He needs the green light that he had in summer league. There's a good chance that he can get those same buckets against opposing bench line ups. White also has to be way more aggressive on offense coming off the bench.

In my OP, I forgot about White, off the bench. I still prefer the Mills, White, Beli, Gay, and Jakob unit. Mills still holds value, he did lead the team in net rtg last season. He is still needed do to his high volume 3pt shooting, something that Witherspoon doesn't provide. This team needs high volume shooters so Mills and Beli are essential to this team, like it or not.

Witherspoon could eventually have a role on this team but not this season, though it may eventually be as Mills replacement.

[sasaint]

:lmao, I forgot about White.

I prefer White and Forbes in the SL, and Dijon and 50Mills on the second unit. But I flog a dead horse...

[objective]

I am only moderately worried about White, and that's due to his weight and Pop's rotation and role-setting. He looked to heavy in the FIBA also. He just looks slower.

But on the bright side: He was bad last preseason also with turnovers. And even after coming back from injury, I don't think he had a standout game until 25 games into his season, 12-22 in the loss at Houston. He had largely struggled or just been decent until then. He scored single digits 17 times in his first 25 games, including 4 scoreless games.

But the 12-22 Houston game really stood out to as it was happening, his defense was incredible. If Pop had matched his minutes to Harden I have no doubt that the Spurs win the game. It was after that game that White just went on a tear as a difference maker. He would score single digits in only 16 of the next 42 games, but would have incredible games like the OKC game saving block game, the Atlanta blockfest, the home against Toronto, etc etc.

He might just be a slow starter anyways. Especially if he's having to adjust to a different role and expectations.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

This team may need bit of a shake-up. I'll be curious to see how the season starts. Pop better keep that pen dry before inking any sort of max extension for DeRozan. DDR will be a tradeable asset with a short deal. A max extension will lock his ass in to San Antonio.

[KDKSpurs24]

Spoelstra is letting Tyler Herro shine and yet Pop is not letting Lonnie do anything. I could understand if we had serious talent and was a contending team but that’s clearly not the case. Even other coaches of better teams are letting their young players play more. But.. :pop:“it wouldn’t be fair to the team”

[RC_Drunkford]

Spoelstra is letting Tyler Herro shine and yet Pop is not letting Lonnie do anything. I could understand if we had serious talent and was a contending team but that’s clearly not the case. Even other coaches of better teams are letting their young players play more. But.. :pop:“it wouldn’t be fair to the team”

this is the army. Veterans get the benefit of the doubt. Young guys have to sit on the bench and learn:pop:

[spurspl]

as is
murray forbes ddr lma poeltl
mills white caroll gay

should be
ball(murray) forbes(loonie) ingram morris lma
murray(ball) white gay caroll (center from the draft)

[poopbox]

People saying they want Gay or Carroll to start and Poeltl to the bench...

No way on earth Rudy is going to last this season if he has to go against starters for most of his minutes...that dude only has so many minutes in his body per season and then he is going to break down...

Same with Carroll...he have to play against starters to much he is going to break down a lot faster...

[TD 21]

People saying they want Gay or Carroll to start and Poeltl to the bench...

No way on earth Rudy is going to last this season if he has to go against starters for most of his minutes...that dude only has so many minutes in his body per season and then he is going to break down...

Same with Carroll...he have to play against starters to much he is going to break down a lot faster...

We're talking about high 20s mpg for Gay and low 20s mpg for Carroll. All they've got to do is get them to December 15th, then they're eligible to trade the necessary pieces (ie Lyles) for Marvin Williams or Bjelica. If, for whatever reason that doesn't materialize sometime between then and the trade deadline, so be it.

This team has a slim margin for error to begin with; they can't afford to worry about what'll happen if certain players break down. They need to put their best foot forward.

[RC_Drunkford]

We're talking about high 20s mpg for Gay and low 20s mpg for Carroll. All they've got to do is get them to December 15th, then they're eligible to trade the necessary pieces (ie Lyles) for Marvin Williams or Bjelica. If, for whatever reason that doesn't materialize sometime between then and the trade deadline, so be it.

This team has a slim margin for error to begin with; they can't afford to worry about what'll happen if certain players break down. They need to put their best foot forward.

Marvin Williams would be a great fit, but I can't see the Spurs trading Lyles and Belinelli for him and they definitely won't trade Mills to match his salary. Carroll and Gay playing 24 minutes per night should not be an issue

[timtonymanu]

Becky Hammon can’t take over soon enough, tbh.

[TD 21]

Marvin Williams would be a great fit, but I can't see the Spurs trading Lyles and Belinelli for him and they definitely won't trade Mills to match his salary. Carroll and Gay playing 24 minutes per night should not be an issue

Unless Williams falls off a cliff and/or Lyles shows marked improvement, the Spurs would more than likely jump at this (Williams is essentially a freakishly long, Spurs material version of Morris, without the ISO ability, which is largely irrelevant). It's conceivable for the Hornets too, though the Spurs might have to add a 2nd.

[UZER]

I’m not looking forward to another year of Pop doing his same ol same ol coaching shticks:

-over playing old guys

-under playing young guys

-dog housing guys for weeks for minor mistakes

-Patty being treated like Tim Manu and Tony

-being an ass about basketball questions while going on 5 minute rants on non basketball issues

-throwing games because “CIA Pop”

-stubbornly sticking to things that aren’t working only to cave before the start of an elimination game

-“it’s just basketball”


Dude just needs to retire already. Its was a great ride, but It’s time for a fresh start.

[SAGirl]

I’m not looking forward to another year of Pop doing his same ol same ol coaching shticks:

-over playing old guys

-under playing young guys

-dog housing guys for weeks for minor mistakes

-Patty being treated like Tim Manu and Tony

-being an ass about basketball questions while going on 5 minute rants on non basketball issues

-throwing games because “CIA Pop”

-stubbornly sticking to things that aren’t working only to cave before the start of an elimination game

-“it’s just basketball”


Dude just needs to retire already. Its was a great ride, but It’s time for a fresh start.
Wow great summary of Pop schticks

[RC_Drunkford]

I’m not looking forward to another year of Pop doing his same ol same ol coaching shticks:

-over playing old guys

-under playing young guys

-dog housing guys for weeks for minor mistakes

-Patty being treated like Tim Manu and Tony

-being an ass about basketball questions while going on 5 minute rants on non basketball issues

-throwing games because “CIA Pop”

-stubbornly sticking to things that aren’t working only to cave before the start of an elimination game

-“it’s just basketball”


Dude just needs to retire already. Its was a great ride, but It’s time for a fresh start.

- running out line ups that have never played together when the team has a lead, so the other team makes a run

- calling a time out when the Spurs are on a run and the other team makes one basket

- playing line ups that give up a 10 point lead, then call a time out and keep playing the same line up

- getting outcoached by rookie coaches

- losing games because the opposing head coach used to be his assistant at some point

[GreekSpursfan]

Pop was great last season given the circumstances, he was great in the playoffs and we would've won against Denver in game 7 if a certain beloved player in this forum had showed up in the most important game of the season.
I would happily take that Pop back, the coach but the POBO not so much. The team lacks talent, has zero all stars and has to rely on a pg that was out for a year with a significant injury. We hope he plays well but nothing is certain, we hope White and Poetl make a leap but we have to see it. Preseason means nothing to me win or lose. You can see some small things in some of the games but nah.
Lets hope we have a good season especially from the young players, Go Spurs Go! :flag: