Why do most American police officers support/vote Republican?

[Spurs Champs99]

Why do most American police officers support or vote Republican?

http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-police-union-sees-partisanship-in-ban-on-uniformed-cops-supporting-political-candidates/561806382/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQec9TrITAs

[hater]

Most are racist gun loving trash. So that's why

[clambake]

Most are racist gun loving trash. So that's why:lol that was good

[ElNono]

Most are racist gun loving trash. So that's why

sup boutons

[FrostKing]

This is the case in most nations in History. Conservatives tend to highly prioritize order. And order is usually upheld by law (and/or religion)

[TheGreatYacht]

Because conservatives like obedience, authority, order, control, etc. Myself on the other hand prefer freedom, free will, and self-reliance.

[ElNono]

Same reason unions generally vote for Democrats, they find a receptive audience for their needs there.

[Will Hunting]

Iirc it started around the Vietnam War era because cops hated all of the protesting hippy shit. Prior to that cops were staunchly Democrat.

[Winehole23]

sup boutonstandem makes sense, boutons is more Hyde than Jeckyll.

[benefactor]

Same reason unions generally vote for Democrats, they find a receptive audience for their needs there.
:tu

[DMC]

Officers see the stark reality the naive left don't want to admit even exists. While the left is keeping safe in heavily policed districts or on heavily policed school campuses, the officers are tasked with constantly being in front of the worst part of society - the part the left, within their gated communities and sheltered existence, pretends is underrepresented and suppressed. So officers no doubt feel the futility of risking their life day after day to protect folks that hate them for naive reasons.

[Winehole23]

Lol DMC saving purple prose for right wing civil service heroes against the venal, decadent, ungrateful, leftish haute bougeoisie.

You'd think we didn't have thousands of other foundations and non-profit civil society orgs on the front lines of overlooked social ills as well, no nurses and doctors, no EMTs and trauma docs and helpful bystanders.

It is true that the work of cops requires them to handle and process homeless people and often crazy people, it is a stark reality, cops are neither well trained nor well equipped for it. Perhaps they shouldn't have to do so much of it.

[Blake]

Officers see the stark reality the naive left don't want to admit even exists. While the left is keeping safe in heavily policed districts or on heavily policed school campuses, the officers are tasked with constantly being in front of the worst part of society - the part the left, within their gated communities and sheltered existence, pretends is underrepresented and suppressed. So officers no doubt feel the futility of risking their life day after day to protect folks that hate them for naive reasons.

Oh now it's the left that lives in gated communities and sheltered existence.

Or it could be as simple as cops love muh 2nd amendment and muh guns

[Millennial_Messiah]

Iirc it started around the Vietnam War era because cops hated all of the protesting hippy shit. Prior to that cops were staunchly Democrat.

prior to Civil Rights the Democrats were more conservative and the Republicans were more liberal. I think Lyndon Johnson shook it all upside down. He was supposedly another Texas Dixiecrat but turned out to be left of center.

[TheGreatYacht]

Lol DMC saving purple prose for right wing civil service heroes against the venal, decadent, ungrateful, leftish haute bougeoisie.

You'd think we didn't have thousands of other foundations and non-profit civil society orgs on the front lines of overlooked social ills as well, no nurses and doctors, no EMTs and trauma docs and helpful bystanders.

It is true that the work of cops requires them to handle and process homeless people and often crazy people, it is a stark reality, cops are neither well trained nor well equipped for it. Perhaps they shouldn't have to do so much of it.

DMC is stuck on the left (evil) vs right (good) paradigm. People like that are usually too far gone tbh...

A lot of cops are a bunch of thugs and useful idiots doing the work of private prisons and elite billionaires that DMC claims to hate. What he doesn't realize is that Republicans and Democrats are two sides of the same coin.


Oh now it's the left that lives in gated communities and sheltered existence.

Or it could be as simple as cops love muh 2nd amendment and muh guns

Yeah as if Republican politicians don't do the bidding of elite corporations and Zionists :lol

[Chris]

Officers see the stark reality the naive left don't want to admit even exists. While the left is keeping safe in heavily policed districts or on heavily policed school campuses, the officers are tasked with constantly being in front of the worst part of society - the part the left, within their gated communities and sheltered existence, pretends is underrepresented and suppressed. So officers no doubt feel the futility of risking their life day after day to protect folks that hate them for naive reasons.

Pretty much. Also many police officers are Christian which the Left hates.

[boutons_deux]

Repugs are the party of white male supremacy aka racists, so it's the natural party of cops

[TheGreatYacht]

Pretty much. Also many police officers are Christian which the Left hates.

Don't blame Christisniy. The left hates Republican politicians and Zionist whores trying to shove down their religious beliefs down our throats. Otherwise people are free to believe what they want but none of this forced patriotism and Christianity BS.

[Chris]

Don't blame Christisniy. The left hates Republican politicians and Zionist whores trying to shove down their religious beliefs down our throats. Otherwise people are free to believe what they want but none of this forced patriotism and Christianity BS.

There is no "forced Christianity".

(see: First Amendment)

[Blake]

Pretty much. Also many police officers are Christian which the Left hates.

Yeah because the Left loves the evil Muslims and the evil atheists

[Blake]

There is no "forced Christianity".

(see: First Amendment)

Lol bullshit. Christians force their way into society and politics all over the place

[Chris]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nQB4nAjZIdE/hqdefault.jpg

[Blake]

Hey I think Chuck Woolery tweeted something hurry Chris!

[ElNono]

Officers see the stark reality the naive left don't want to admit even exists. While the left is keeping safe in heavily policed districts or on heavily policed school campuses, the officers are tasked with constantly being in front of the worst part of society - the part the left, within their gated communities and sheltered existence, pretends is underrepresented and suppressed. So officers no doubt feel the futility of risking their life day after day to protect folks that hate them for naive reasons.

This is romantic to a point, but the actual stark reality is that big cities, who largely vote blue, see or have seen the largest swaths of crime (NY, LA, Chicago[ding]). They're neither gated communities, or isolated from crime. LEO still voted/votes red.

Let's also not forget that as much as they vote republican, they also love to have their police unions.

Again, there's just simpler reasons for this, much like evangelicals voting red. They just have a place in the party table, whereas they do not in the other party.

[ElNono]

There is no "forced Christianity".

(see: First Amendment)

Of course there is. What does the 1st amendment has to do with abortion? It doesn't.

[Chris]

Of course there is. What does the 1st amendment has to do with abortion? It doesn't.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSGx5-WRWG8Cm1_432SO85_1NXpEb6LsKPf7NJ9-X09ZHCNILBz

[Blake]

Oh a selfie

[ElNono]

Fake Christian rearing it's ugly head again...

[DMC]

Lol DMC saving purple prose for right wing civil service heroes against the venal, decadent, ungrateful, leftish haute bougeoisie.

You'd think we didn't have thousands of other foundations and non-profit civil society orgs on the front lines of overlooked social ills as well, no nurses and doctors, no EMTs and trauma docs and helpful bystanders.

It is true that the work of cops requires them to handle and process homeless people and often crazy people, it is a stark reality, cops are neither well trained nor well equipped for it. Perhaps they shouldn't have to do so much of it.
We all know they are racists and put out hits on witnesses, right?

You should never get into a discussion about cops again.

[DMC]

Oh now it's the left that lives in gated communities and sheltered existence.

Or it could be as simple as cops love muh 2nd amendment and muh guns

Because cops need the 2nd in order to have guns, amirite?

[DMC]

DMC is stuck on the left (evil) vs right (good) paradigm. People like that are usually too far gone tbh...

A lot of cops are a bunch of thugs and useful idiots doing the work of private prisons and elite billionaires that DMC claims to hate. What he doesn't realize is that Republicans and Democrats are two sides of the same coin.



Yeah as if Republican politicians don't do the bidding of elite corporations and Zionists :lol

What elite billionaires do I claim to hate? I'll wait.

[spurraider21]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSGx5-WRWG8Cm1_432SO85_1NXpEb6LsKPf7NJ9-X09ZHCNILBz
people want gay marriage/abortion banned because of their religious beliefs. thats the "forced christianity" that is being referred to

Oh a selfie
:lol

[spurraider21]

Officers see the stark reality the naive left don't want to admit even exists. While the left is keeping safe in heavily policed districts or on heavily policed school campuses, the officers are tasked with constantly being in front of the worst part of society - the part the left, within their gated communities and sheltered existence, pretends is underrepresented and suppressed. So officers no doubt feel the futility of risking their life day after day to protect folks that hate them for naive reasons.
wait so are the gated communities where liberals gather or the impoverished urban areas?

[Blake]

Because cops need the 2nd in order to have guns, amirite?

When they're off the clock, yes.

[DMC]

This is romantic to a point, but the actual stark reality is that big cities, who largely vote blue, see or have seen the largest swaths of crime (NY, LA, Chicago[ding]). They're neither gated communities, or isolated from crime. LEO still voted/votes red.

Let's also not forget that as much as they vote republican, they also love to have their police unions.

Again, there's just simpler reasons for this, much like evangelicals voting red. They just have a place in the party table, whereas they do not in the other party.

I don't get your point about inner cities. Cops vote republican because they are grounded in reality because they face reality. Liberals typically do not face reality, but instead try to shout down and shut down anything they disagree with. They want to pretend to be the opposite gender, or no gender. They want others to be forced to acknowledge their fantasy as being real.

What's notable about these types of discussions is that the center left is being presented as the left, but the far left is the actual voice of the party. Someone who is close to center can often vote different party, so if a democratic voter became a cop, they might see things that makes them more interested in supporting more historically conservative ideals. Unlike the left, the right's voice is typically closer to center.

[Blake]

We all know they are racists and put out hits on witnesses, right?

You should never get into a discussion about cops again.

Other than forum cop are you a real cop in real life?

[DMC]

wait so are the gated communities where liberals gather or the impoverished urban areas?

Pretty sure AOC doesn't live in the Ghetto. Pretty sure the majority of these diaper rash kids at liberal universities weren't raised in Harlem.

[Blake]

I don't get your point about inner cities. Cops vote republican because they are grounded in reality because they face reality. Liberals typically do not face reality, but instead try to shout down and shut down anything they disagree with. They want to pretend to be the opposite gender, or no gender. They want others to be forced to acknowledge their fantasy as being real.

What's notable about these types of discussions is that the center left is being presented as the left, but the far left is the actual voice of the party. Someone who is close to center can often vote different party, so if a democratic voter became a cop, they might see things that makes them more interested in supporting more historically conservative ideals. Unlike the left, the right's voice is typically closer to center.

Where are you getting this information as to why cops vote Republican?

[DMC]

Where are you getting this information as to why cops vote Republican?

From your ex-wife. She was fucking a bunch of them.

[Blake]

Pretty sure AOC doesn't live in the Ghetto. Pretty sure the majority of these diaper rash kids at liberal universities weren't raised in Harlem.

Oh a goal post move

[Blake]

From your ex-wife. She was fucking a bunch of them.

Oh ad hominem. No way didn't see that coming

[spurraider21]

Pretty sure AOC doesn't live in the Ghetto. Pretty sure the majority of these diaper rash kids at liberal universities weren't raised in Harlem.
AOC = liberals?

is the ghetto conservative? what are you getting at?

[Pavlov]

DMC obviously lives in the Ghetto with all the cops.

[DMC]

When they're off the clock, yes.

:lol no

The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA), often referred to as HR 218, was enacted in 2004 and amended in 2010 and 2013. 18 U.S. Code §§ 926B & 926C allows qualified Law Enforcement officers (LEOs) and qualified retired LEOs (RLEOs) or those separated from service in good standing to carry a concealed firearm in any jurisdiction in the United States, regardless of state or local laws, with some exceptions. Therefore, an individual who qualifies under LEOSA does not need a state-issued concealed carry permit in order to carry a concealed firearm in any state.

Maybe do some reading, low information cuck

[DMC]

Oh a goal post move

So AOC isn't a liberal?

[DMC]

AOC = liberals?

is the ghetto conservative? what are you getting at?

The ghetto isn't notorious for being liberal. There's a difference between voting democrat and being a liberal. Try walking through the ghetto, Philo, let me know how liberal they are. :lol

[Pavlov]

AOC = liberals?She probably has a good reason to stay an a place a little more secure than a regular Bronx apartment tho.

[Pavlov]

The ghetto isn't notorious for being liberal. There's a difference between voting democrat and being a liberal. Try walking through the ghetto, Philo, let me know how liberal they are. :lolHow often do you walk through the ghetto? Tell us about it.

[DMC]

She probably has a good reason to stay an a place a little more secure than a regular Bronx apartment tho.

Why? Aren't those apts filled with liberals? Hopefully no conservative cops live there.

[DMC]

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2019-09-02/democrats-blacks-latinos-white-liberals-biden

[DMC]

How often do you walk through the ghetto? Tell us about it.

You want to know what walking is like?

[Pavlov]

Why? Aren't those apts filled with liberals?It's not the residents, genius.

[Pavlov]

You want to know what walking is like?:lol still hanging on to that narrative

How often do you walk through the ghetto? Tell us about it.

[DMC]

It's not the residents, genius.

So the evil cops and conservatives come after her?

[DMC]

:lol still hanging on to that narrative

How often do you walk through the ghetto? Tell us about it.

You and those voices in your head?

:lol

Do you think the Ghetto is liberal? Yes or no

[Pavlov]

So the evil cops and conservatives come after her?Cops?

Who said cops would come after her? What's with your narrative machine overdrive today?

I wouldn't even call people who would come after her conservatives tbh.

[Pavlov]

Y
You and those voices in your head?

:lol

Do you think the Ghetto is liberal? Yes or no"Us" means everyone on the board, genius. You're a lot less intelligent than you want people to think.

You're avoiding the living shit out of this question after bringing it up.

How often do you walk through the ghetto? Tell us about it.

[DMC]

Cops?

Who said cops would come after her? What's with your narrative machine overdrive today?

I wouldn't even call people who would come after her conservatives tbh.

So she needs the security of a gated residence and police watch. Got it. Where are the liberals who live in the ghetto, trannies?

[DMC]

Y"Us" means everyone on the board, genius. You're a lot less intelligent than you want people to think.

You're avoiding the living shit out of this question after bringing it up.

How often do you walk through the ghetto? Tell us about it.

You're not a forum rep.

I didn't bring up the question of walking through the ghetto. I told Philo to and let me know how liberal they are.

[Pavlov]

So she needs the security of a gated residence and police watch. Got it.Who says she lives in a gated residence with a police watch?

Link?


Where are the liberals who live in the ghetto, trannies?What meds are you taking? You're all over the place.

How often do you walk through the ghetto? Tell us about it.

[Pavlov]

You're not a forum rep.

I didn't bring up the question of walking through the ghetto. I told Philo to and let me know how liberal they are.So you have zero experience walking through the ghetto.

:lol DMC is all fucking talk

[Blake]

DMC obviously lives in the Ghetto with all the cops.

And the Republicans

[DMC]

So you think she's not living in an access controlled building? That's the urban version of a gated community. She's not living in the squalor of the ghetto, where all these supposed liberals live.

Tell your nurse to roll you over to prevent bed sores.

[DMC]

Chumpy and Cucky looking for a Saturday night hookup..

:lmao

"please talk to me.. It's so lonely here"

[Pavlov]

So you think she's not living in an access controlled building? That's the urban version of a gated community. She's not living in the squalor of the ghetto, where all these supposed liberals live.So many goalpost moves....


I think anyone who has received that many death threats is probably in a more secure location, but she probably was before. You don't have to be a millionaire to have an apartment with access control. You do know this, don't you?


Tell your nurse to roll you over to prevent bed sores.Aw, DMC always wants to make it personal with his failed narratives when he loses.:lol

[Blake]

:lol no

The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA), often referred to as HR 218, was enacted in 2004 and amended in 2010 and 2013. 18 U.S. Code §§ 926B & 926C allows qualified Law Enforcement officers (LEOs) and qualified retired LEOs (RLEOs) or those separated from service in good standing to carry a concealed firearm in any jurisdiction in the United States, regardless of state or local laws, with some exceptions. Therefore, an individual who qualifies under LEOSA does not need a state-issued concealed carry permit in order to carry a concealed firearm in any state.

Maybe do some reading, low information cuck

Neat. Did Republicans push the act?

[Pavlov]

Chumpy and Cucky looking for a Saturday night hookup..

:lmao

"please talk to me.. It's so lonely here":lol ghetto conservative DMC getting all kinds of pissy when he's called out.

Please respect me! Tell me I'm smart!

:lmao

[Blake]

So AOC isn't a liberal?

Does she represent where all liberals live?

Jeez you're really stupid.

[DMC]

:lol Blake-lov melting down... rapid fire posting..

tee hee

[DMC]

Neat. Did Republicans push the act?

red herring

Cops don't need the 2A to carry a gun, even off duty, you low information fuck.

[Chris]

Blehke learned a new word. :clap

[Pavlov]

Does she represent where all liberals live?

Jeez you're really stupid.EVERYONE KNOWS THE BRONX IS THE BEVERLY HILLS OF SOUTHERN NEW YORK YOU HAVE TO HAVE A KEY CARD AND EVERYTHING

[Blake]

Blehke learned a new word. :clap

Chris here to do that troll thing

[Pavlov]

Chris here to do that troll thinggutter tier

[Blake]

red herring

Cops don't need the 2A to carry a gun, even off duty, you low information fuck.

Great they don't need the 2a. Go make yourself a victory trophy if you need it since I wasn't aware of the recently made act.

But the thread is asking why cops stereotypically vote Republican. Was the act pushed by Republicans?

[spurraider21]

So AOC isn't a liberal?
liberals = a liberal

so where aoc lives is where liberals, generally, live

[ElNono]

I don't get your point about inner cities. Cops vote republican because they are grounded in reality because they face reality. Liberals typically do not face reality, but instead try to shout down and shut down anything they disagree with. They want to pretend to be the opposite gender, or no gender. They want others to be forced to acknowledge their fantasy as being real.

What's notable about these types of discussions is that the center left is being presented as the left, but the far left is the actual voice of the party. Someone who is close to center can often vote different party, so if a democratic voter became a cop, they might see things that makes them more interested in supporting more historically conservative ideals. Unlike the left, the right's voice is typically closer to center.

I don't get your gated communities comment. That's what I was pointing out. Heck, come here to LA, the gated communities like in OC, etc, are all generally republican voters. Down in the city, there's none of that, and at times, crime has been rampant (same applies to NY, Philadephia, or Chicago, or any large metro area), and they still largely vote blue.

The notion that democrat voters see an alternate reality from cops is pure fantasy, backed by nothing. We all live in the same world and reality, some people just feel the solution to it is X and other people think it's Y. Then parties go ahead and cater to X or Y, and people make their decision.

This is no different than seeing obscenely rich people (ie: Kochs/Adelson vs Soros/Steyer) that likely do live in a very different reality from your average american, yet still find ways to associate with red or blue.

[ElNono]

Pretty sure AOC doesn't live in the Ghetto. Pretty sure the majority of these diaper rash kids at liberal universities weren't raised in Harlem.

Harlem is a democrat/leftie bastion. Those don't count?

[ElNono]

The ghetto isn't notorious for being liberal. There's a difference between voting democrat and being a liberal. Try walking through the ghetto, Philo, let me know how liberal they are. :lol

What's your definition of liberal? I would say the fact that they shun any kind of religious bullshit and/or marriage/family, is fairly liberal. At least, far away from conservatism.

[Blake]

Harlem is a democrat/leftie bastion. Those don't count?

Cmon everyone knows the street kids raised in Harlem end up at conservative universities

[ElNono]

Obviously, there's likely very big differences between the ghetto and the hipster. Those differences are everywhere, like the ignoramus redneck and oilco CEO on the other side.

Yet, I don't think any of those people see or live in any alternate reality.

[Blake]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b0/In_the_Ghetto.jpg/220px-In_the_Ghetto.jpg

[DMC]

I don't get your gated communities comment. That's what I was pointing out. Heck, come here to LA, the gated communities like in OC, etc, are all generally republican voters. Down in the city, there's none of that, and at times, crime has been rampant (same applies to NY, Philadephia, or Chicago, or any large metro area), and they still largely vote blue.

The notion that democrat voters see an alternate reality from cops is pure fantasy, backed by nothing. We all live in the same world and reality, some people just feel the solution to it is X and other people think it's Y. Then parties go ahead and cater to X or Y, and people make their decision.

This is no different than seeing obscenely rich people (ie: Kochs/Adelson vs Soros/Steyer) that likely do live in a very different reality from your average american, yet still find ways to associate with red or blue.
How often do you respond to domestic violence calls or have to approach a stolen vehicle in the middle of the night after pulling it over? We don't all see the same reality, we like to think we do. How many of your friends and co-workers have been killed on the job?

Wealthy people often live in secured areas, be they liberal or conservative. College campuses are often rife with liberals, not democrats, but liberals. These people have a sheltered existence for the most part, and have been raised in that environment. The low income areas you speak of are often more likely to vote center left than extreme left, so I wouldn't call their views "liberal",

[TheGreatYacht]

What elite billionaires do I claim to hate? I'll wait.

Oh, you love them? Damn that makes it worst. I thought you were better than that.

I meant the people you accuse of living in their gated mansions. That's who your gorillas w guns and a badge work for.

[DMC]

Harlem is a democrat/leftie bastion. Those don't count?

Don't morph dem with liberal.

[DMC]

Oh, you love them? Damn that makes it worst. I thought you were better than that.

I meant the people you accuse of living in their gated mansions. That's who your gorillas w guns and a badge work for.

:lol

You claim I hate someone, I say "show me" and your response is "oh so you love them?"

I don't hate anyone for living well. I just don't think the white liberals who put AOC in office represent the urban blacks who would chose a more center left candidate like Biden or Hillary.

Stick to your shitty woke YT vids, since you hate transexuals so much.

[DMC]

liberals = a liberal

so where aoc lives is where liberals, generally, live

Where do liberals generally live?

[DMC]

Cmon everyone knows the street kids raised in Harlem end up at conservative universities

Only when they are off duty.

[Blake]

How often do you respond to domestic violence calls or have to approach a stolen vehicle in the middle of the night after pulling it over? We don't all see the same reality, we like to think we do. How many of your friends and co-workers have been killed on the job?

Wealthy people often live in secured areas, be they liberal or conservative. College campuses are often rife with liberals, not democrats, but liberals. These people have a sheltered existence for the most part, and have been raised in that environment. The low income areas you speak of are often more likely to vote center left than extreme left, so I wouldn't call their views "liberal",

What a bunch of nothing

[Blake]

Where do liberals generally live?

According to you, in gated communities

[DMC]

What a bunch of nothing

You could lecture on how cops need the 2A to carry a firearm off duty.

[Blake]

Don't morph dem with liberal.

Uh oh semantic DMC going to work

[DMC]

According to you, in gated communities

neat

[Blake]

You could lecture on how cops need the 2A to carry a firearm off duty.

DMC needed that one bad. He's rather cling to that than stick to the thread topic.

[Blake]

neat

It's lol to the rest of us

[ElNono]

How often do you respond to domestic violence calls or have to approach a stolen vehicle in the middle of the night after pulling it over? We don't all see the same reality, we like to think we do. How many of your friends and co-workers have been killed on the job?

Wealthy people often live in secured areas, be they liberal or conservative. College campuses are often rife with liberals, not democrats, but liberals. These people have a sheltered existence for the most part, and have been raised in that environment. The low income areas you speak of are often more likely to vote center left than extreme left, so I wouldn't call their views "liberal",

That's the nature of the environment where they work. I think we can agree that most of these people also don't bring home what they see at work.

You go to Venezuela, and you'll get not just cops, but your neighbor or school teacher mowed down. Are they any less liberal? Hell no.

This correlation you're trying to make with harsher living conditions and conservatism doesn't exist. One could argue the exact opposite just as easily. Heck, the world outside the US is by any measure largely liberal (compared to the US anyways), and they don't enjoy neither the security nor the justice system the US have.

I also noticed the union comment went largely untouched. I don't pretend that you answer/counter it, but, again, another good example that this is much simpler. It's less about ideals or experience, and much more about what's utilitarian.

[ElNono]

Don't morph dem with liberal.

morph them? how so? would you call them conservatives? even independents? I think we're having a disconnect here. Who are the liberals you're pointing fingers to? only the rich white, college educated?

[spurraider21]

morph them? how so? would you call them conservatives? even independents? I think we're having a disconnect here. Who are the liberals you're pointing fingers to? only the rich white, college educated?
the bad people

[DMC]

What's your definition of liberal? I would say the fact that they shun any kind of religious bullshit and/or marriage/family, is fairly liberal. At least, far away from conservatism.

I accept the Wiki description of Liberal.

Blacks are notoriously religious. Many in the democratic party are religious, and family oriented, and marriage oriented. This is why I don't consider these people to be liberals.

How many non-gay black men do you know who support feminism? How about supporting the rights of LGBQTs?

People call blacks "liberal" for the sake of argument, to count their numbers, but culturally and socially they are mostly not liberal.

[DMC]

morph them? how so? would you call them conservatives? even independents? I think we're having a disconnect here. Who are the liberals you're pointing fingers to? only the rich white, college educated?

I would call them democrats, not conservatives, not independents. Would Bernie voters who refused to vote for Hillary be considered other than Democrats?

Well as per the LA Times article I referenced.


"The most liberal flank of the Democratic Party is far whiter than it used to be, and decidedly to the left of many of the party’s blacks and other racial minorities on a wide range of issues. Zach Goldberg (no relation), a PhD candidate at the University of Georgia, wrote a comprehensive survey of the phenomenon for Tablet magazine in June in a piece titled “America’s White Saviors.” He notes that black and Asian liberals are more sympathetic to restrictive immigration policies than their white counterparts. And both black and Latino liberals tend to be more supportive of Israel and less supportive of the identity politics agenda around sexuality and gender."

[DMC]

the bad people

Is there a prize for the snappiest retort? If so, you're in the running in this thread.

[DarrinS]

Maybe they vote for the party NOT throwing urine at them and calling them pigs? Just a hunch.

[Pavlov]

ANPEEFA!

[DarrinS]

ANPEEFA!

2/5 for creativity

[DarrinS]

Dems haven't always been anti law enforcement and anti border control. That's fairly recent.

[DarrinS]

All dems have to do is NOT seem crazy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0A6YgxIaF8

[DMC]

That's the nature of the environment where they work. I think we can agree that most of these people also don't bring home what they see at work.

Only female constables in Dallas amirite? eh? Eh????

The nature of your environment is how you gauge reality. It's why people who are raised differently see things differently quite often.

I was sitting at a regional airport yesterday, waiting on a flight to Chicago. The flight was delayed almost 3 hours, but about 5 minutes after the door would have been closed otherwise, this young college girl runs in and is having a hissy fit, she just jumps ahead of about 5 other people in line to the counter, and she's frantically going on about being late. She's wearing just thin shorts and sandals. Once she finds out the flight is delayed, she starts talking about having lost her phone, then how she's hanging, then asks to borrow someone's phone and calls a friend. She talks so loud everyone can hear her, and she's going on and on about being blacked out, not sure who she slept with, worst day of her life, how her Birkenstocks are now muddy, etc... talks about vodka and tequila and so on. Meanwhile all the women sitting around me are talking to each other about this girl, and everyone there, I think, except this obviously privileged little shit seems to think this girl is not connected with the same reality as the rest of us. It's like a Housewives show (so I've heard). The concept of being raised differently (older working women vs young, probably freshman college kid) means they see reality differently. So to them they are living in a different reality.

I didn't mean to suggest reality itself changes.


You go to Venezuela, and you'll get not just cops, but your neighbor or school teacher mowed down. Are they any less liberal? Hell no.

I am sure they don't stop and protest at a coffee shop because someone used the wrong pronoun.


This correlation you're trying to make with harsher living conditions and conservatism doesn't exist. One could argue the exact opposite just as easily. Heck, the world outside the US is by any measure largely liberal (compared to the US anyways), and they don't enjoy neither the security nor the justice system the US have.

It's not about living conditions. It's about how you view your role in the world you live in. Are you aggressive and do you respect authority? Do you think authority is necessary? Or are you passive and think authority suppresses freedoms? Both have some things right, but one side often overdoes the authority and the other ignores the fallacies of anarchy.


I also noticed the union comment went largely untouched. I don't pretend that you answer/counter it, but, again, another good example that this is much simpler. It's less about ideals or experience, and much more about what's utilitarian.
I don't know where you're going with the union thing.

[Blake]

Dems haven't always been anti law enforcement and anti border control. That's fairly recent.

They're still not.

[Blake]

Only female constables in Dallas amirite? eh? Eh????

The nature of your environment is how you gauge reality. It's why people who are raised differently see things differently quite often.

I was sitting at a regional airport yesterday, waiting on a flight to Chicago. The flight was delayed almost 3 hours, but about 5 minutes after the door would have been closed otherwise, this young college girl runs in and is having a hissy fit, she just jumps ahead of about 5 other people in line to the counter, and she's frantically going on about being late. She's wearing just thin shorts and sandals. Once she finds out the flight is delayed, she starts talking about having lost her phone, then how she's hanging, then asks to borrow someone's phone and calls a friend. She talks so loud everyone can hear her, and she's going on and on about being blacked out, not sure who she slept with, worst day of her life, how her Birkenstocks are now muddy, etc... talks about vodka and tequila and so on. Meanwhile all the women sitting around me are talking to each other about this girl, and everyone there, I think, except this obviously privileged little shit seems to think this girl is not connected with the same reality as the rest of us. It's like a Housewives show (so I've heard). The concept of being raised differently (older working women vs young, probably freshman college kid) means they see reality differently. So to them they are living in a different reality.

I didn't mean to suggest reality itself changes.

I am sure they don't stop and protest at a coffee shop because someone used the wrong pronoun.

It's not about living conditions. It's about how you view your role in the world you live in. Are you aggressive and do you respect authority? Do you think authority is necessary? Or are you passive and think authority suppresses freedoms? Both have some things right, but one side often overdoes the authority and the other ignores the fallacies of anarchy.

I don't know where you're going with the union thing.

Oh cool DMC story time

[DMC]

DMC needed that one bad. He's rather cling to that than stick to the thread topic.

Blake has entered narrator mode again. He's the one who first suggested "muh guns" as the reason cops vote GOP.

[DMC]

It's lol to the rest of us

There are other cucks here?

[Blake]

Blake has entered narrator mode again. He's the one who first suggested "muh guns" as the reason cops vote GOP.

Not as "the" reason. "A" possible reason.

If you want to compare anecdotes, I have known/dealt with a number of cops over the years.

The ones that are Trump lovers absolutely fall for the pro-muh-gun, border wall, illegal immigrant rhetoric.

I've never heard one of them talk about how they can't stand the gated community liberals.

[Blake]

There are other cucks here?

Derp mode activated

[DarrinS]

Dems haven't always been anti law enforcement and anti border control. That's fairly recent.


They're still not.

:lol

[Blake]

:lol

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/obama-signs-600-million-bill-to-boost-u-s-border-security

[DarrinS]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/obama-signs-600-million-bill-to-boost-u-s-border-security

2010?

[Blake]

2010?

What year did they become anti border and anti LE and in what ways?

[DMC]

2010?

Blake is a low information poster, too fucking lazy to research anything and has no pride left after you know what.

[DMC]

Not as "the" reason. "A" possible reason.

If you want to compare anecdotes, I have known/dealt with a number of cops over the years.

The ones that are Trump lovers absolutely fall for the pro-muh-gun, border wall, illegal immigrant rhetoric.

I've never heard one of them talk about how they can't stand the gated community liberals.

Cool story

Just admit you were wrong and stop trying to pretend you didn't shit the bed again.

[DMC]

What year did they become anti border and anti LE and in what ways?

Obviously before 2010 since that's when you pulled the "nuh uh" article from.

[Blake]

Blake is a low information poster, too fucking lazy to research anything and has no pride left after you know what.

After I just posted the link of researched info debunking Darrin.

You're an idiot

[Blake]

Cool story

Just admit you were wrong and stop trying to pretend you didn't shit the bed again.

Wrong about what? You're never gonna admit to being wrong about all the liberals forming large communes in their gated communities.

[Blake]

Obviously before 2010 since that's when you pulled the "nuh uh" article from.

You mean after 2010?

Both you and Darrin are too lazy to answer.

[DMC]

After I just posted the link of researched info debunking Darrin.

You're an idiot

Darrin said "dem's haven't always been..." then you showed a 9 year old article to debunk it...

You're the derp you accuse others of being. Ignorance + certainty = douchebag

[DMC]

Wrong about what? You're never gonna admit to being wrong about all the liberals forming large communes in their gated communities.

You said cops need the 2A to have their guns while off duty.

Now try to squirm out of it you slimy bastard :lol

[DMC]

You mean after 2010?

Both you and Darrin are too lazy to answer.

What does "fairly recent" mean to you?

[ElNono]

I accept the Wiki description of Liberal.

Blacks are notoriously religious. Many in the democratic party are religious, and family oriented, and marriage oriented. This is why I don't consider these people to be liberals.

Not sure what that description is, there's plenty on wiki, but sure there's plenty of married, family oriented liberals (not just democrats). It's just that their religious views don't influence their politics.

They support abortion, pot smoking, same-sex marriage, etc. You wouldn't confuse those guys for conservatives for one minute.


How many non-gay black men do you know who support feminism? How about supporting the rights of LGBQTs?

People call blacks "liberal" for the sake of argument, to count their numbers, but culturally and socially they are mostly not liberal.

I don't think there's expectations that every liberal will subscribe to the ideology of everybody liberal out there. Some people will, some people won't. Some black people will equate the discrimination on gays to the racial discrimination they suffer, some won't.

It happens all the same with conservatives. How many conservatives support ultra-nationalists or racists? Some do, most don't, I think. Those that do not are not any less conservative.

Happens with religion too. Not every Christian believes and abides by every single teaching in the Bible. But that doesn't make them non-christian.


I would call them democrats, not conservatives, not independents. Would Bernie voters who refused to vote for Hillary be considered other than Democrats?

Well as per the LA Times article I referenced.

"The most liberal flank of the Democratic Party is far whiter than it used to be, and decidedly to the left of many of the party’s blacks and other racial minorities on a wide range of issues. Zach Goldberg (no relation), a PhD candidate at the University of Georgia, wrote a comprehensive survey of the phenomenon for Tablet magazine in June in a piece titled “America’s White Saviors.” He notes that black and Asian liberals are more sympathetic to restrictive immigration policies than their white counterparts. And both black and Latino liberals tend to be more supportive of Israel and less supportive of the identity politics agenda around sexuality and gender."

That's the 'degree of lefty', which has always existed in one way or another, and yet you wouldn't confuse them with conservatives. That quoted text doesn't make the distinction either.

Same thing happened with conservatives on how conservative they really are (I'm sure you remember the whole litmus test pre-Trump, pledges, RINO, etc).

When you get to the nitty gritty, and ask the typical wedge questions, you do get a typical answer. I think that largely applies to blacks and whites, depending where they are (generalizing here, but you get the point).


If your beef is with the more far left section of the democratic party, then that's ok.

[ElNono]

Only female constables in Dallas amirite? eh? Eh????

lol


The nature of your environment is how you gauge reality. It's why people who are raised differently see things differently quite often.

I was sitting at a regional airport yesterday, waiting on a flight to Chicago. The flight was delayed almost 3 hours, but about 5 minutes after the door would have been closed otherwise, this young college girl runs in and is having a hissy fit, she just jumps ahead of about 5 other people in line to the counter, and she's frantically going on about being late. She's wearing just thin shorts and sandals. Once she finds out the flight is delayed, she starts talking about having lost her phone, then how she's hanging, then asks to borrow someone's phone and calls a friend. She talks so loud everyone can hear her, and she's going on and on about being blacked out, not sure who she slept with, worst day of her life, how her Birkenstocks are now muddy, etc... talks about vodka and tequila and so on. Meanwhile all the women sitting around me are talking to each other about this girl, and everyone there, I think, except this obviously privileged little shit seems to think this girl is not connected with the same reality as the rest of us. It's like a Housewives show (so I've heard). The concept of being raised differently (older working women vs young, probably freshman college kid) means they see reality differently. So to them they are living in a different reality.

I didn't mean to suggest reality itself changes.

That makes more sense. Some people actually do think there's a parallel reality, which is part of a grander delusion, and I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing (You know, the flat earthers, conspiratards, etc)

I'm not discounting that your experiences in life doesn't shape your worldview (which IMO, it's a much more clear definition that some notion of altered reality). I actually pretty much agree with that. This is anecdotal, so carries no weight, but I was born in a middle-class 3rd world country family, and I could live in a gated community in the 1st world now (I don't). But that doesn't insulate me from the struggle of people trying to walk up that ladder, the empathy of those that don't have the tools or have enough despite how hard they work, how flat out ignoramus have to lie of what's it like to travel that road to demonize. Some other people don't give a shit where they came from, or the struggles of anybody else. I find that shallow, but that's fine.

What I'm pointing out is that because I grew up in an insecure area, doesn't mean I'm automatically conservative. Poor people are actually much more largely drawn toward liberalism due to their catering to unions, etc. Again, it's purely a convenience/utilitarian issue.

If conservatives advocated for food stamps instead of tax cuts, I'm sure the poor would listen more closely. Same goes with immigration, etc. And I don't think conservatives largely hate the poor or immigrants (hard to tell these days, but let's generalize a bit), they just don't cater to them.


I am sure they don't stop and protest at a coffee shop because someone used the wrong pronoun.

It's not about living conditions. It's about how you view your role in the world you live in. Are you aggressive and do you respect authority? Do you think authority is necessary? Or are you passive and think authority suppresses freedoms? Both have some things right, but one side often overdoes the authority and the other ignores the fallacies of anarchy.

I think there's a bit of everything. There's aggressive that don't respect authority (criminals anyone?), there's passive that trusts authority (the vast majority of people, regardless of political leaning), there's people that prefer to be aggressive in some settings (ie: competitive people) but are model citizens. There's people that hate undemocratic hierarchical authority (you can pen me on that one), but then obviously opt not to join the military, for example. Ultimately, nobody is forcing LEO to be LEO. It's a choice, which I'm sure varies depending on the person.


I don't know where you're going with the union thing.

I'm going to the utilitarian aspect. Going by conservative media, government unions are the bane of our existence, but ideology doesn't get in the way there for LEO.

[DMC]

Not sure what that description is, there's plenty on wiki, but sure there's plenty of married, family oriented liberals (not just democrats). It's just that their religious views don't influence their politics.

They support abortion, pot smoking, same-sex marriage, etc. You wouldn't confuse those guys for conservatives for one minute.


I support all three of those things. I consider myself conservative.

I was using the things you mentioned as defining traits for liberals... religion, family, marriage.


I don't think there's expectations that every liberal will subscribe to the ideology of everybody liberal out there. Some people will, some people won't. Some black people will equate the discrimination on gays to the racial discrimination they suffer, some won't.

I don't think there's that expectation at all. It's not that simple or easy to dismiss. If you don't think that way, give others credit for not being stupid.

You're not liberal if you don't hold liberal values. If a black person (or any person) doesn't respect liberal values, how can you say they are liberal? You say they feel one way and vote another, ok, would you say that blacks can vote dem and yet not hold liberal values ergo not be liberals? Doesn't the utilitarian aspect come into play here as well? I could vote republican and not have conservative values.


It happens all the same with conservatives. How many conservatives support ultra-nationalists or racists? Some do, most don't, I think. Those that do not are not any less conservative.

That's a loaded question that infers racists are somehow exclusive to the right. It's obvious not all people from either side think exactly the same, but if you're going to call someone liberal who doesn't hold liberal views, then aren't you just broadening the term to annex the more conservative dems for sake of argument?


Happens with religion too. Not every Christian believes and abides by every single teaching in the Bible. But that doesn't make them non-christian.

If they don't believe or practice the fundamental tenets of Christianity, they aren't Christians. If someone doesn't believe or practice the fundamental tenets of liberalism, they aren't liberals. Voting dem doesn't make them liberal just as being baptized doesn't make anyone a Christian. Not everyone in the church is a Christian but they can still all be part of the congregation. Liberals are part of the democratic spectrum that are more left of center than those who teeter more to the right. For some it's a bit nebulous, these are the undecided ones who don't necessarily vote along party lines (like me).


That's the 'degree of lefty', which has always existed in one way or another, and yet you wouldn't confuse them with conservatives. That quoted text doesn't make the distinction either.

I haven't tried to make a dem into a republican, but just because you vote republican doesn't make you a conservative.


Same thing happened with conservatives on how conservative they really are (I'm sure you remember the whole litmus test pre-Trump, pledges, RINO, etc).

No I don't really recall that. I've been told I am not a conservative, because of my stance on same sex marriage, on being atheist, on my stance on abortion. It doesn't matter, because I will vote for the candidate I prefer or I will simply not vote.


When you get to the nitty gritty, and ask the typical wedge questions, you do get a typical answer. I think that largely applies to blacks and whites, depending where they are (generalizing here, but you get the point).


If your beef is with the more far left section of the democratic party, then that's ok.
It is, that's why I said long ago, before he even announced, that Joe Biden would be able to beat Trump and that I would likely vote for him. I won't vote for Sanders or that crazy bitch from California.

[FrostKing]

Whoa this thread blew up


Don't blame Christisniy. The left hates Republican politicians and Zionist whores trying to shove down their religious beliefs down our throats. Otherwise people are free to believe what they want but none of this forced patriotism and Christianity BS.
Your understanding doesn't quite add up. Because the Left defends non-White religious followers especially foreigners

Republican ass kissing of zionist results in handicapped soldiers returning to America and the outbreak of refugees whom rarely end up in America anyway (this is more a concern of Europes) but Democrats ass kissing of zionist rotts the very culture and society of America

[ElNono]

I support all three of those things. I consider myself conservative.

The vast majority of conservatives do not. Maybe you're a centrist and leans conservative in some areas, but it's unequivocal that those positions are (socially) liberal positions in the current political map.


I was using the things you mentioned as defining traits for liberals... religion, family, marriage.

I mentioned those items in the context of people living in a ghetto. I don't think the vast majority there statistically subscribe to any of those three. It was an example given a context.

Truth be told, looking at divorce rates, conservatives only largely pay lip service to family and marriage (specifically on the latter as long as it only involves a women and a man, mostly due to religious reasons).


I don't think there's that expectation at all. It's not that simple or easy to dismiss. If you don't think that way, give others credit for not being stupid.

You're not liberal if you don't hold liberal values. If a black person (or any person) doesn't respect liberal values, how can you say they are liberal? You say they feel one way and vote another, ok, would you say that blacks can vote dem and yet not hold liberal values ergo not be liberals? Doesn't the utilitarian aspect come into play here as well? I could vote republican and not have conservative values.

But then you need to define what those liberal values are. Because if you're telling me that abortion, pot smoking, same-sex marriage are not liberal positions then it's you that has a disconnect.

If you're gonna pick and choose that only LBGTQ right and feminism are liberal positions, but not the other 3 above, then that's convenient, but simply not serious.


That's a loaded question that infers racists are somehow exclusive to the right. It's obvious not all people from either side think exactly the same, but if you're going to call someone liberal who doesn't hold liberal views, then aren't you just broadening the term to annex the more conservative dems for sake of argument?

I should've said white supremacists (which are statistically much closer to the conservative side), so let's make that more clear.

And no, I'm not broadening anything, because I didn't make any claims about who's liberal and who is not. What I noted, which is what started this conversation, is that people in the ghetto strike me to be more liberal than conservative. I didn't associate it with how they vote necessarily, but the fact that there's rampant single-motherhood, statistically adult black women marry at a rate 30% lower than adult white women, crime rate in those areas don't strike me as being part of the Christian core values (and 8 out of 10 black folk self-describe as Christian, higher than white people), etc. So it's difficult to think in that particular setting that, outside loving the 2nd amendment (pun intended, sorry Trill), there's a lot of conservative ideology going on... I didn't call them outright liberals also. But if you ask me to generalize and classify them, they strike me as much more liberal than conservative.


If they don't believe or practice the fundamental tenets of Christianity, they aren't Christians. If someone doesn't believe or practice the fundamental tenets of liberalism, they aren't liberals. Voting dem doesn't make them liberal just as being baptized doesn't make anyone a Christian. Not everyone in the church is a Christian but they can still all be part of the congregation. Liberals are part of the democratic spectrum that are more left of center than those who teeter more to the right. For some it's a bit nebulous, these are the undecided ones who don't necessarily vote along party lines (like me).

But this is not true, because some people believe or practice 80% of the tenets of Christianity, but there's a 20% they don't agree with (ie: same sex marriage, divorce, or even abortion), and yet they attend church and self describe as Christian. Heck, a divorce doesn't prevent them from going to church or practice Christianity, nor expels them from the Church. Statistically, we still count them as Christian. We can argue whether they're 'pure' or not, does it really matter? They're definitely not agnostic or Islamic or Buddhists, I don't think anybody would be confused as to whether they're Christian or not.


I haven't tried to make a dem into a republican, but just because you vote republican doesn't make you a conservative.

I didn't advance that theory either. I merely commented that what you shared with us also doesn't distinguish between liberal and non-liberal just because some people are more towards the left than others.


No I don't really recall that. I've been told I am not a conservative, because of my stance on same sex marriage, on being atheist, on my stance on abortion. It doesn't matter, because I will vote for the candidate I prefer or I will simply not vote.

It was during the Mitt Romney presidential candidate era. That he had to pledge not to raise taxes. That he lost because he wasn't conservative enough, etc.

I've been labeled different ways too, but I think we can agree that has as much to do with the topic as the listener.


It is, that's why I said long ago, before he even announced, that Joe Biden would be able to beat Trump and that I would likely vote for him. I won't vote for Sanders or that crazy bitch from California.

You're likely not alone in that. That's the sort of shit sandwich I was talking about in the last election too, tbh... I couldn't consciously cast a vote for either, so I didn't. I don't buy the lesser of two evils argument, give me good candidates or forget about my vote (that said, I've lived in states where my vote largely doesn't matter).

[Trill Clinton]

Interesting to see old racist white guys pretend they know the mindset of African Americans and people living in the "ghetto"

[spurraider21]

Whoa this thread blew up


Your understanding doesn't quite add up. Because the Left defends non-White religious followers especially foreigners

Republican ass kissing of zionist results in handicapped soldiers returning to America and the outbreak of refugees whom rarely end up in America anyway (this is more a concern of Europes) but Democrats ass kissing of zionist rotts the very culture and society of America
The left defends those non Christian religion followers in the context of fighting discrimination, not in defense of the religion itself. And the “fight” against Christianity is better framed as a fight to keep the religion out of politics (ie gay marriage) per the first amendment. Is Muslims tried to pass laws here that restricted rights to people based on their religion, they’d be attacked just the same

[spurraider21]

And no, I'm not broadening anything, because I didn't I couldn't consciously cast a vote for either, so I didn't. I don't buy the lesser of two evils argument, give me good candidates or forget about my vote (that said, I've lived in states where my vote largely doesn't matter).
I find this entire section disturbing tbh

are you even allowed to vote?

[Blake]

You said cops need the 2A to have their guns while off duty.

Now try to squirm out of it you slimy bastard :lol


red herring

Cops don't need the 2A to carry a gun, even off duty, you low information fuck.


Great they don't need the 2a. Go make yourself a victory trophy if you need it since I wasn't aware of the recently made act.

But the thread is asking why cops stereotypically vote Republican. Was the act pushed by Republicans?

DMC wrong about the red herring and me squirming but will never admit it.

DMC will not answer.

DMC will dance instead.

[Blake]

What does "fairly recent" mean to you?

I asked first.

Because it's actually Darrin's claim you're piggy backing on and not mine, I'll wait.

[DMC]

The vast majority of conservatives do not. Maybe you're a centrist and leans conservative in some areas, but it's unequivocal that those positions are (socially) liberal positions in the current political map.

Probably a bit of an enigma (what's up my e-nigma?)


I mentioned those items in the context of people living in a ghetto. I don't think the vast majority there statistically subscribe to any of those three. It was an example given a context.

Then they aren't liberal. Maybe they are more centrist in ideology but vote based on what many of the community leaders recommend? One thing about whites, afaik we don't have tight communities and don't really adhere to the community leader template. I find I agree more with the blacks than with most of the whites, many seem more pragmatic, perhaps because of the differences in "reality" I mentioned earlier. Perhaps it has to do with the economic situation we were raised in, for the most part.


Truth be told, looking at divorce rates, conservatives only largely pay lip service to family and marriage (specifically on the latter as long as it only involves a women and a man, mostly due to religious reasons).

The conservatives I know only care about marriage because they judge each other, parents judge offspring and offspring wants approval of parents in the form of inheritance. Old joke.. how do you stop a Christian from drinking all your beer when you take them fishing? You have to take two Christians. They won't touch the beer then.


But then you need to define what those liberal values are. Because if you're telling me that abortion, pot smoking, same-sex marriage are not liberal positions then it's you that has a disconnect.

Pot smoking seems to be loved across the spectrum for the younger generation and even some of the older ones. These are liberal positions, but they don't make the one holding them a liberal. Why can't someone believe in personal freedoms but be fiscally conservative? I can be against a welfare state and yet be for freedom of movement, freedom to marry whomever you want, a secularist, etc... Someone with my outlook would never win the presidency unless they lied, because the majority of the bases do indeed lean one way or the other.


If you're gonna pick and choose that only LBGTQ right and feminism are liberal positions, but not the other 3 above, then that's convenient, but simply not serious.

No, they all are but if you remove a couple of them, are you still liberal? Some are exclusively liberal, others are shared. I think the concept of "rights" for LBGFTQ is different than the concept of exclusive rights for them. I think many conservatives feel these groups take advantage of the human rights issue to push their own agendas and get special rights. The idea of a man using a woman's restroom because he has on a dress is an example. Demanding that others use specific gender pronouns when it goes against the natural order of how they are historically used is another. Equal rights doesn't mean I have to pretend to believe what you believe. Certainly liberals, especially the younger ones, get that when they refuse to say "sir" or "ma'am" even if the one they are talking to prefers it.


I should've said white supremacists (which are statistically much closer to the conservative side), so let's make that more clear.

These people are such a small, insignificant segment of the population that they don't even really merit discussion. It would be like me bringing up the Black Panthers or the Nation of Islam as being part of the left.


And no, I'm not broadening anything, because I didn't make any claims about who's liberal and who is not. What I noted, which is what started this conversation, is that people in the ghetto strike me to be more liberal than conservative. I didn't associate it with how they vote necessarily, but the fact that there's rampant single-motherhood, statistically adult black women marry at a rate 30% lower than adult white women, crime rate in those areas don't strike me as being part of the Christian core values (and 8 out of 10 black folk self-describe as Christian, higher than white people), etc. So it's difficult to think in that particular setting that, outside loving the 2nd amendment (pun intended, sorry Trill), there's a lot of conservative ideology going on... I didn't call them outright liberals also. But if you ask me to generalize and classify them, they strike me as much more liberal than conservative.

Their culture isn't based on political views. Moms don't often choose to be single. The men don't say "well, I don't believe in family or marriage so I am not going to support it by getting married". Blacks don't want to give their money to the poor any more than conservative whites do. They don't believe in socialism, but will take advantage of the system, just like whites will. This is the problem with trying to pigeonhole cultural groups into political parties - their actions are often based on culture, not political views. You can bet many blacks won't respect your gender pronoun of choice. So we're talking about completely different groups of people, the white liberals and the black democrats. There are likely some mixes of color on each, but the recent rise of the white liberal is the issue, it's not the historically democratic political lean of the blacks. The difference is that the former is looking to feel good about themselves, the latter is looking to survive. The former doesn't really like the latter, thus the gated communities and exclusive living arrangements. They might date across races to try to prove a point, but they won't live there.


But this is not true, because some people believe or practice 80% of the tenets of Christianity, but there's a 20% they don't agree with (ie: same sex marriage, divorce, or even abortion), and yet they attend church and self describe as Christian. Heck, a divorce doesn't prevent them from going to church or practice Christianity, nor expels them from the Church. Statistically, we still count them as Christian. We can argue whether they're 'pure' or not, does it really matter? They're definitely not agnostic or Islamic or Buddhists, I don't think anybody would be confused as to whether they're Christian or not.

The tenets of Christianity I refer to are that Jesus is the son of God and that Jesus died for your sins, and all you have to do is accept that to be a Christian.

Its main points include:

Belief in God the Father, Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit.
The death, descent into hell, resurrection and ascension of Christ.
The holiness of the Church and the communion of saints.
Christ's second coming, the Day of Judgement and salvation of the faithful.


If you don't believe these things you aren't Christian. Likewise if you don't believe the tenets of Liberalism then you aren't Liberal.


I didn't advance that theory either. I merely commented that what you shared with us also doesn't distinguish between liberal and non-liberal just because some people are more towards the left than others.

What distinguishes is whether or not you believe in the tenets of liberalism, regardless how you vote.


It was during the Mitt Romney presidential candidate era. That he had to pledge not to raise taxes. That he lost because he wasn't conservative enough, etc.

Being Mormon didn't help. Christians look unkindly upon the LDS.


I've been labeled different ways too, but I think we can agree that has as much to do with the topic as the listener.



You're likely not alone in that. That's the sort of shit sandwich I was talking about in the last election too, tbh... I couldn't consciously cast a vote for either, so I didn't. I don't buy the lesser of two evils argument, give me good candidates or forget about my vote (that said, I've lived in states where my vote largely doesn't matter).

My individual vote is insignificant, but the concept that my vote doesn't matter is huge.

This excerpt from an article I read sums it up pretty well:

"In national elections, economists and some political scientists who consider such issues say, your one vote makes effectively zero difference, so it’s irrational to vote for the purpose of shaping the election’s outcome. It to speak of a “wasted vote,” because your vote wouldn’t have mattered anyway. This doesn’t necessarily mean you shouldn’t vote at all, since there are powerful moral reasons to vote. But it does mean that if your goal is to influence the outcome of the election, then voting third party, voting major party, and not voting are equally rational in economic (in the sense of strictly self-interested) terms."

http://www.ahienquiry.org/writing-collect/2018/2/22/has-your-voting-been-influenced-by-this-popular-fallacy

[DMC]

Interesting to see old racist white guys pretend they know the mindset of African Americans and people living in the "ghetto"

I knew more about Joshua Brown than you did. Entrepreneur my ass.

[DMC]

The left defends those non Christian religion followers in the context of fighting discrimination, not in defense of the religion itself. And the “fight” against Christianity is better framed as a fight to keep the religion out of politics (ie gay marriage) per the first amendment. Is Muslims tried to pass laws here that restricted rights to people based on their religion, they’d be attacked just the same

So having a religious system and belief that suppresses women, kills Gays and anyone who doesn't believe as they do is OK as long as they don't try to get it into legislation?

[Blake]

I knew more about Joshua Brown than you did. Entrepreneur my ass.

DMC is so ghetto

[Blake]

So having a religious system and belief that suppresses women, kills Gays and anyone who doesn't believe as they do is OK as long as they don't try to get it into legislation?

Oh you mean Christianity

[DMC]

DMC wrong about the red herring and me squirming but will never admit it.

DMC will not answer.

DMC will dance instead.

"recently made act".

Signed in 2004, 15 years ago :lol

Damn Blake, did your time clock stop after the cucking? You post articles from 2010 to counter a comment about "recent" then you call 2004 recent.

But you did say you weren't aware. This I already knew. You're a child.

[Blake]

"recently made act".

Signed in 2004, 15 years ago :lol

Damn Blake, did your time clock stop after the cucking? You post articles from 2010 to counter a comment about "recent" then you call 2004 recent.

Must. Cling. To. This.

[DMC]

Blake wants to interject pithy remarks but lacks the IQ to be effective, so he gets slapped down on the regular then wants to quickly move on. Just sit in your corner there and beat off, like you normally do.

[DMC]

DMC is so ghetto

Blake is so edgy

[TheGreatYacht]

So having a religious system and belief that suppresses women, kills Gays and anyone who doesn't believe as they do is OK as long as they don't try to get it into legislation?

The teachings of the bible and Christianity encourages those things too tbh. Suppressing women and stoning homosexuals has been done by Christians in the past.

Seems to me been like you're obsessed w labels and identity politics. I personally don't give a shit about what people label me.

And I don't believe you would vote for Biden :lol. I bet you anything that you have voted Republican your whole life. That's why I say these centrist Democrats like Biden and Hillary should just join the Republican party and let the progressives take over the Democrats.

[spurraider21]

So having a religious system and belief that suppresses women, kills Gays and anyone who doesn't believe as they do is OK as long as they don't try to get it into legislation?
if they abide by our laws, that cuts out a lot of the detestable crap their religion brings, including the subjugation of women/gays.

ie, muslim man doesnt believe gays should get married. thats his deal. as long as he keeps it to himself, who gives a fuck. gay people around him are still getting married. you can say the same about any religion tbh

[Trill Clinton]

I knew more about Joshua Brown than you did. Entrepreneur my ass.

old racist white guy proud his racist guess may have been true.

[DMC]

old racist white guy proud his racist guess may have been true.

You need a mulligan on this one?

[DMC]

if they abide by our laws, that cuts out a lot of the detestable crap their religion brings, including the subjugation of women/gays.

In public.


ie, muslim man doesnt believe gays should get married. thats his deal. as long as he keeps it to himself, who gives a fuck. gay people around him are still getting married. you can say the same about any religion tbh
You're talking about a group who denies Jews the freedom of speech on campuses because they don't like the message. Pretty sure the Muslim support is just to fuck with the right.

[DMC]

The teachings of the bible and Christianity encourages those things too tbh. Suppressing women and stoning homosexuals has been done by Christians in the past.

Seems to me been like you're obsessed w labels and identity politics. I personally don't give a shit about what people label me.

And I don't believe you would vote for Biden :lol. I bet you anything that you have voted Republican your whole life. That's why I say these centrist Democrats like Biden and Hillary should just join the Republican party and let the progressives take over the Democrats.

Ok Joe. Like I said, stick to regurgitating talking points of others. You're the next torch bearer for Boutons.

[ElNono]

Interesting to see old racist white guys pretend they know the mindset of African Americans and people living in the "ghetto"

Did this include me, tbh? I'm latino, mid-40s (not sure what comes across as 'old' these days), and don't believe to have a hint of racism in me.

I don't think it did when I read it the first time, just checking.

[TheGreatYacht]

Ok Joe. Like I said, stick to regurgitating talking points of others. You're the next torch bearer for Boutons.

Can't refute any of my claims so resorts to personal attacks :lol

The truth stings buddy

[DMC]

Can't refute any of my claims so resorts to personal attacks :lol

The truth stings buddy

Ok Joe

[ElNono]

Probably a bit of an enigma (what's up my e-nigma?)

Then they aren't liberal. Maybe they are more centrist in ideology but vote based on what many of the community leaders recommend? One thing about whites, afaik we don't have tight communities and don't really adhere to the community leader template. I find I agree more with the blacks than with most of the whites, many seem more pragmatic, perhaps because of the differences in "reality" I mentioned earlier. Perhaps it has to do with the economic situation we were raised in, for the most part.

...

The tenets of Christianity I refer to are that Jesus is the son of God and that Jesus died for your sins, and all you have to do is accept that to be a Christian.

Its main points include:

Belief in God the Father, Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit.
The death, descent into hell, resurrection and ascension of Christ.
The holiness of the Church and the communion of saints.
Christ's second coming, the Day of Judgement and salvation of the faithful.


If you don't believe these things you aren't Christian. Likewise if you don't believe the tenets of Liberalism then you aren't Liberal.

What distinguishes is whether or not you believe in the tenets of liberalism, regardless how you vote.


But see, here's a problem I have with your position. You start off making the claim that if people don't subscribe to the entire liberal agenda, they can't possibly be labeled liberal, but then when it comes to religion, you stick to the base tenets. That's an obvious pick and choose, and different standard for basically what amounts to the same exercise (labeling the group). I don't believe feminism or LBGTQ rights are 'tenets of liberalism', they're political positions du jour.

We were just talking about this with rmt, where I was explaining why Political Affiliation poll numbers differ from Political Identification polls numbers. Political Affiliation polls count voters that have registered as voter for a specific party. Political Identification polls count voters given their self-admitted leanings. One would think the latter is a much more dynamic crowd, as the affiliated crowd tend to be more staunch supporters, but that not quite statistically bears out. (here are the relevant poll numbers: https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx, https://news.gallup.com/poll/267239/democrats-hold-edge-party-affiliation-3rd-quarter.aspx)

Whereas party affiliation shows a breakdown of R: 29%, I: 38%, D: 31%, party identification shows R: 42%, I: 11%, D: 47%, and the average divergence in the past 20+ years is roughly +- 7 points (with Republicans having the biggest divergence).

And so the question is, do we call those that self-identify as Democrat leaners 'liberal' or not (likewise for conservatives)? This isn't based on a vote, but how they feel about themselves at that given point in time. I don't think it would be a stretch to do so. Sure, they likely don't subscribe to the entire ideology/talking points du jour, but the party identification numbers are probably way more accurate (based on voting records) than party affiliation numbers.

[ElNono]

So having a religious system and belief that suppresses women, kills Gays and anyone who doesn't believe as they do is OK as long as they don't try to get it into legislation?

It's part of our Constitutionally protected religious freedom and freedom of speech, tbh... The alternative is thought crime and/or start carving out more exceptions to the 1st amendment for hate... which is undeniably a slippery slope.

Ultimately their acts (not beliefs) are checked against the laws, and so that's what keeps them in line, or jail.

[Blake]

Blake wants to interject pithy remarks but lacks the IQ to be effective, so he gets slapped down on the regular then wants to quickly move on. Just sit in your corner there and beat off, like you normally do.

I've injected two on topic direct questions you've avoided.

Keep avoiding them and then do another phony victory dance. Go.

[DMC]

It's part of our Constitutionally protected religious freedom and freedom of speech, tbh... The alternative is thought crime and/or start carving out more exceptions to the 1st amendment for hate... which is undeniably a slippery slope.

Ultimately their acts (not beliefs) are checked against the laws, and so that's what keeps them in line, or jail.

The left isn't known for caring that much about the BoR. Not just the 2A but even the 1A gets applied in self-serving ways. So I don't accept the BoR as being the reason the far left supports Muslims.

[DMC]

I've injected two on topic direct questions you've avoided.

Keep avoiding them and then do another phony victory dance. Go.

"muh guns"

/Blake

[Blake]

"muh guns"

/Blake

Derp mode, activate!

[Blake]

The left isn't known for caring that much about the BoR. Not just the 2A but even the 1A gets applied in self-serving ways. So I don't accept the BoR as being the reason the far left supports Muslims.

Oh hey more anecdotal bullshit. No way!

[DMC]

Oh hey more anecdotal bullshit. No way!

Anecdote?

No more LIP from you... (Low Information Poster)

[Blake]

Anecdote?

No more LIP from you... (Low Information Poster)

Yes anecdote. You're a bullshit moron.

[Trill Clinton]

Did this include me, tbh? I'm latino, mid-40s (not sure what comes across as 'old' these days), and don't believe to have a hint of racism in me.

I don't think it did when I read it the first time, just checking.

not you fam

[TheGreatYacht]

The left isn't known for caring that much about the BoR. Not just the 2A but even the 1A gets applied in self-serving ways. So I don't accept the BoR as being the reason the far left supports Muslims.

Oh blame the "SJW" and "snowflake" boogeyman for all off society's problems right.

If only the left didn't exist we would have this utopian universe. That would put an end to corruption, illegal wars, etc.

[DMC]

But see, here's a problem I have with your position. You start off making the claim that if people don't subscribe to the entire liberal agenda, they can't possibly be labeled liberal, but then when it comes to religion, you stick to the base tenets. That's an obvious pick and choose, and different standard for basically what amounts to the same exercise (labeling the group). I don't believe feminism or LBGTQ rights are 'tenets of liberalism', they're political positions du jour.

What are the base tenets of Liberalism? I said I would accept the Wiki description. So list the ones you think are fundamental to being liberal.


We were just talking about this with rmt, where I was explaining why Political Affiliation poll numbers differ from Political Identification polls numbers. Political Affiliation polls count voters that have registered as voter for a specific party. Political Identification polls count voters given their self-admitted leanings. One would think the latter is a much more dynamic crowd, as the affiliated crowd tend to be more staunch supporters, but that not quite statistically bears out. (here are the relevant poll numbers: https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx, https://news.gallup.com/poll/267239/democrats-hold-edge-party-affiliation-3rd-quarter.aspx)

Whereas party affiliation shows a breakdown of R: 29%, I: 38%, D: 31%, party identification shows R: 42%, I: 11%, D: 47%, and the average divergence in the past 20+ years is roughly +- 7 points (with Republicans having the biggest divergence).

And so the question is, do we call those that self-identify as Democrat leaners 'liberal' or not (likewise for conservatives)? This isn't based on a vote, but how they feel about themselves at that given point in time. I don't think it would be a stretch to do so. Sure, they likely don't subscribe to the entire ideology/talking points du jour, but the party identification numbers are probably way more accurate (based on voting records) than party affiliation numbers.
There's a difference in calling someone "liberal" based on their liberal views and "liberal" based on what party they'd fall into. Same with conservative. In fact, the god view I have would be a Christian one, but I don't believe a god exists. Since I was raised in a Christian household, and attended church regularly as a child, I still have the Christian version of God as the image I argue against when I debate against theism. That doesn't make me a Christian.

From Wiki: Liberalism aims to disperse power, to foster diversity and to nurture creativity. They can further be divided based on their adherence to social liberalism or classical liberalism, although all liberal parties and individuals share basic similarities, including the support for civil rights and democratic institutions.

These groups on the left aren't looking to disperse power, they are looking to attain some for themselves. They aren't looking to foster diversity. They are looking to have their own differences accepted. The creativity part seems a bit nebulous.

For one, Americans aren't all on the same level of playing field, so different groups will have different goals. Some groups are more concerned with the welfare of their group than with the welfare of people in general. This can be seen in groups like we've discussed, who feel they have been disenfranchised. Instead of reaching out to say "no one should be disenfranchised" they say "we shouldn't be disenfranchised". How different is that than the conservatives saying "we shouldn't have to pay higher taxes" instead of saying "no one should have to pay higher taxes"?

[Chris]

I'm latino and don't believe to have a hint of racism in me

lol...

[DMC]

Oh blame the "SJW" and "snowflake" boogeyman for all off society's problems right.

If only the left didn't exist we would have this utopian universe. That would put an end to corruption, illegal wars, etc.

Ok Joe

[Chris]

"it's cool fam - I'm latino aka not racist"

:lol

[DMC]

Did this include me, tbh? I'm latino, mid-40s (not sure what comes across as 'old' these days), and don't believe to have a hint of racism in me.

I don't think it did when I read it the first time, just checking.

I know lots of Latinos and the first thing they ask is "what are you?" when they meet someone of a different skin shade. They discuss among themselves whether this person is this or that race. That might not be racist, since no preference is given, but Latinos are certainly racially proud folks.

[DMC]

btw fam doesn't mean Fat Ass Mexican, or so I've heard.

[phxspurfan]

Cops are majority whites/males (majorities). Dems represent non whites and females (minorities).

[Spurtacular]

Why do most American police officers support/vote Republican? (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281432&page=7)

:lmao Maybe cos most the shitheads their arresting are Democrats. :lmao

[Spurtacular]

Cops are majority whites/males (majorities). Dems represent non whites and females (minorities).

Males aren't in the majority, dude.

[DMC]

Cops are majority whites/males (majorities). Dems represent non whites and females (minorities).

Dems are majority white as well.

https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/bzy3o329y0mlpris47pfaa.gif

In 2012 About 73% of officers in the US were white. That's a lower percentage than the white republicans.

[phxspurfan]

Dems are majority white as well.

https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/bzy3o329y0mlpris47pfaa.gif

In 2012 About 73% of officers in the US were white. That's a lower percentage than the white republicans.

Not saying dems are majority women/blacks etc, dems represent minority. Big difference.

[DMC]

Not saying dems are majority women/blacks etc, dems represent minority. Big difference.

You said cops are majority white as if that's why they vote republican, but Dems are majority white as well. They don't vote republican.

[Will Hunting]

Are Dems still majority white? I honestly don’t know but figure it’s got to be pretty close at this point.

[DMC]

Are Dems still majority white? I honestly don’t know but figure it’s got to be pretty close at this point.

About 77% of the country is white. 40% of white voters voted democrat in 2016. There were 138 million votes.

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/FT_17.05.12_BlackVoters_Shareofvoters_corrected-1.png

Since the ratio didn't really change, I'd say whites still make up at least 60% of the democratic vote.

[ElNono]

The left isn't known for caring that much about the BoR. Not just the 2A but even the 1A gets applied in self-serving ways. So I don't accept the BoR as being the reason the far left supports Muslims.

It really doesn't matter what either side care about with regards to constitutional rights considering neither side has enough clout to change the Constitution, nor are in charge of enforcing those rights.

Plus, it's irrelevant to the discussion as to whether hate speech (in the form of religion or otherwise) should be curbed.

[ElNono]

not you fam

:tu

[ElNono]

What are the base tenets of Liberalism? I said I would accept the Wiki description. So list the ones you think are fundamental to being liberal.

Can you link the Wiki description you subscribe to? I found ~5 Wiki entries for Liberalism. Obviously, what we knew as the 19th century 'classical' liberals are no longer what the 'modern' liberals of today look like. That's why I don't want to assume what your position is.

I would say off the top of my head, modern liberal fundamental tenets encompasses: secular democracy, defense of workers' rights above corporatism (with the state having a prominent role on regulation, etc), a voice/platform for minorities (lots of stuff fit under this core tenet), strong personal social rights and freedoms (civil rights fall into this, among other things).

I don't know I'll go much further than that as far as 'core' tenets, and it's also very debatable if some of those topics have become more of lip service than concrete items. But I think that's a fairly safe description, or one I can likely defend.


There's a difference in calling someone "liberal" based on their liberal views and "liberal" based on what party they'd fall into. Same with conservative. In fact, the god view I have would be a Christian one, but I don't believe a god exists. Since I was raised in a Christian household, and attended church regularly as a child, I still have the Christian version of God as the image I argue against when I debate against theism. That doesn't make me a Christian.

From Wiki: Liberalism aims to disperse power, to foster diversity and to nurture creativity. They can further be divided based on their adherence to social liberalism or classical liberalism, although all liberal parties and individuals share basic similarities, including the support for civil rights and democratic institutions.

These groups on the left aren't looking to disperse power, they are looking to attain some for themselves. They aren't looking to foster diversity. They are looking to have their own differences accepted. The creativity part seems a bit nebulous.

For one, Americans aren't all on the same level of playing field, so different groups will have different goals. Some groups are more concerned with the welfare of their group than with the welfare of people in general. This can be seen in groups like we've discussed, who feel they have been disenfranchised. Instead of reaching out to say "no one should be disenfranchised" they say "we shouldn't be disenfranchised". How different is that than the conservatives saying "we shouldn't have to pay higher taxes" instead of saying "no one should have to pay higher taxes"?

It's debatable. I do think that parties do reinvent themselves as they go along, sometimes overlooking (if not outright forgetting) some of their basic tenets, and sometimes even get co-opted based on the necessities of the time. ie: both Trump (the absolute social liberal, no question about it) AND Hillary (globalization corporatist) are great recent examples.

I think what they mean by power dispersion is the constant battle between corporatism influence in power (all too common today in the form of lobbying) vs protecting the little guy. Again, when I say some of these topics have fallen by the wayside and can be lip service sometimes, I was specifically thinking about this one. However, we do see some forms of populism extolling this virtue in people like Bernie, and to a lesser degree, Warren. Even Trump ran on this, which is fairly opposite of the free market mantra, but it does resonate today with the electorate generally due to the many shapes globalization has taken hold.

And, honestly, about diversity, I think having their differences accepted is a big part of fostering diversity. I mean, if we can't even agree that a married gay couple should have the same legal rights as those of a straight couple, we really can't proceed with any kind of fostering.

My 2c anyways.

[Spurs Champs99]

This is the case in most nations in History. Conservatives tend to highly prioritize order. And order is usually upheld by law (and/or religion)

True.

There is nothing wrong with order. It is better than anarchy. Like what a lot of leftists in some urban cities like.