The Time is Now to Sign Dejounte Murray to an Extension

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/spurs-should-sign-dejounte-murray-contract-extension-now/

Unless the Spurs know something we don't about Murray's knee, now's the time to extend him.

[FlAVaK]

Great write up. Thanks!

Colums in the 2nd table are switched...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'd like to see that.

[timvp]

Colums in the 2nd table are switched...

Good catch :tu

[dabom6]

Fix my nick brah.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Excellent writeup, top to bottom. I hope they're listening to you. Like you said, unless they know something about the knee that we dont, you don't let this kid hit free agency. I'm thinking 4/$56M with $4/50 being a discount. Maybe Klutch will agree to waive their commission.

If the Spurs don't get him extended before the deadline, I'm assuming it's because they have an understanding, and it will help them sign someone else. Otherwise, there's no reason to not get him locked up.

[TD 21]

I know he came from damn near nothing and is probably one more significant injury away from no set for life contract, but I don't know if that range get's it done because of the Klutch representation, his brashness and the difficulty of pinpointing the extent of the presumed breakout upcoming. Both sides supposedly think he can become a star.

LeVert, with a far more extensive injury history, signed for 3/$52M. Granted, different players and more of a body of work, but advanced stats have never painted a flattering picture of him.

:lmao At classifying the Warriors as a dynasty. Nothing dynastic about a 5 year run where they faced no elite teams in route to their fist title (not their fault obviously, but still), then begged the consensus 2nd best player in the league to join their already consensus best team in the league, to claim their next two.

[ismael-robert]

Can we stop the kawhi thread from extending

[mo7888]

If you can get Murray at 15M per year and Poeltl at 8M a year do it because it puts us in a position to build something special.

[CGD]

If you can get Murray at 15M per year and Poeltl at 8M a year do it because it puts us in a position to build something special.

Concur

[Genovaswitness]

Max him. Now

[KobesAchilles]

Max him. Now

[Chinook]

Yeah, I don't really think those other guys' contract have anything to do with Murray. Brodgan is the closest. At this point, no one thinks of Rubio a franchise piece, and that's where Murray is now. Obviously, I'd be down with him getting $17M APY if he wants to take it, but I don't see why he would given how much more he could get with a strong season and how much PATFO seems to love him.

[raybies]

im gonna spend some time here tonight if anyone wants to ask me questions about the upcoming season

[spurs1990]

I’m still against the idea of giving DeMar DeRozan a lucrative contract extension. A max extension would be a colossal mistake, in my estimation. The fact that he was 3-for-3 on three-pointers last night doesn’t change my opinion.


Beautifully said. Please please Spurs just resist the temptation to extend... you can do this just hold off for 43 hours more

[timvp]

I know he came from damn near nothing and is probably one more significant injury away from no set for life contract, but I don't know if that range get's it done because of the Klutch representation, his brashness and the difficulty of pinpointing the extent of the presumed breakout upcoming.I don't think the Klutch representation helps or hurts much. If anything, after Marcus Morris debacle, Murray getting an extension with the Spurs probably helps Klutch regain trust with players and teams.


LeVert, with a far more extensive injury history, signed for 3/$52M. Granted, different players and more of a body of work, but advanced stats have never painted a flattering picture of him.Don't love the LeVert comp because LeVert is a scorer and a shooting guard, two characteristics that are still rewarded highly. Defense-first point guards are on the other end of the spectrum.


If you can get Murray at 15M per year and Poeltl at 8M a year do it because it puts us in a position to build something special.If think that's a little rich for Poeltl given what other centers got this past summer but I wouldn't complain too vehemently.


Yeah, I don't really think those other guys' contract have anything to do with Murray. Brodgan is the closest. At this point, no one thinks of Rubio a franchise piece, and that's where Murray is now.By any reasonable measure, Brogdon is a much more valuable player on the open market than Murray. As much as I like Murray, he hasn't even proven that he's a full-time starter. We Spurs fans are hopeful that he'll break out in a big way ... but his actual resume is pretty light outside of the All-Defensive team selection. Averaging 8, 5 and 3 two years ago puts him on a Marcus Smart level (generously, if you went with league-wide consensus, IMO), not alongside Brogdon or even Rubio.

Add in the injury risk Murray would take if he plays out the season and I think $15 million +/- $2 million is a fair range for him.

We'll see.

[Chinook]

By any reasonable measure, Brogdon is a much more valuable player on the open market than Murray. As much as I like Murray, he hasn't even proven that he's a full-time starter. We Spurs fans are hopeful that he'll break out in a big way ... but his actual resume is pretty light outside of the All-Defensive team selection. Averaging 8, 5 and 3 two years ago puts him on a Marcus Smart level (generously, if you went with league-wide consensus, IMO), not alongside Brogdon or even Rubio.

Add in the injury risk Murray would take if he plays out the season and I think $15 million +/- $2 million is a fair range for him.

We'll see.

I think how good you are matters for your third contract. But your second one is based on how good you're projected to be. I'm not arguing that Murray has shown more than Brogdan or even Rubio. I'm saying that people (and I suspect that includes at least a few rival front offices), see Murray the potential to be way better than Rubio. Ricky is an analytics darling, but he's a limited player, and after all these years (he was drafted 10 freaking years ago now), the book is sort of out on him. PHX didn't get him to be their future. $13-17 Million might be the market for Murray the player, but Murray the future face of the franchise has a way higher value than that. Unless he's really worried about another injury, I don't think it makes sense for him to not hold out for a near-max deal. Even if he just plays at a Rubio-esque level, he's going to get paid way more, because he'll be younger, have more upside (in terms of his frame and other physical tools) and will be very marketable to a team that needs a new foundation.

Remember that MKE decided Brogdan wasn't worth keeping over Mids and Bledsoe. No one expected Boston to try to keep Rozier. That's just not what we can expect from SA and Murray. I'm having a hard time seeing a scenario where PATFO would let Murray walk, and that ends up being more leverage than any of those other players had.

[talkspurs]

I think your low on Dj. I could see it avg out to about 20 a year if we do it now. One thing we could put in there would be games played minimums to help offset the risk but still giving him the higher amount now. If we wait and he breaks out it could be a lot more. I see the spurs having more risk on not signing him then he does on not signing. If he got injured I still think a team would sign him. It would be less but I still think teams will want him especially if he does well this year before he would get hurt.
While I dont think it would happen you also have to look at not wanting to upset him. With what happened with the Kawhi and LA if we look like we dont even take care of our own that could hurt us in trying to recruit FA.

[ducks]

Be smart for spurs dumb for him

[timvp]

I think how good you are matters for your third contract. But your second one is based on how good you're projected to be.

You had some pretty good points but I just went back and looked at every rookie extension ever signed and I don't see an example of which you speak. Do you have an example of a player who signed a rookie extension based mostly on their potential rather than their actual production? I don't see any big paydays for a player like Murray with such a short resume. Perhaps I'm missing someone.

Maybe Murray bets on himself and holds out for $20+ million this offseason. It could certainly pay off for him. But given the question marks that remain, I'm not sure the Spurs can justify signing him right now to anything over about $17 million. If they're not completely confident in his knee, they probably will prefer to wait it out and see what happens.

I think ~$15 million makes a lot of sense as a compromise. Murray is set for life and cashes in on a large percentage of his potential, the Spurs get a young building block. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

[raybies]

it'd be interesting if DJ signs an extension and Demar doesn't lol or the other way around :wow

[BatManu20]

Good write up, and I agree. Lock him up. He’s made it known he wants to be here long-term, and we obviously want him here. He’s one of our key building blocks. Lock him up now and be done with it tbh.

[BatManu20]

it'd be interesting if DJ signs an extension and Demar doesn't lol or the other way around :wow

Think DeMar opts out next summer since the Free Agent pool is so weak. He could get one last payday. I could be wrong though. Maybe he likes it here and wants to extend? Time will tell.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Different players obviously but I think Murray getting a Dennis Shroeder type deal would be fair. Not sure Clutch would go for it, depending on the relationship with Spurs after the Morris fiasco and Murray’s desire for financial security.

[raybies]

Think DeMar opts out next summer since the Free Agent pool is so weak. He could get one last payday. I could be wrong though. Maybe he likes it here and wants to extend? Time will tell.
it could get awkward here real fast is all I'm saying lol

why'd he have to open his clothery here lol

hard to get a read on PATFO's desire to keep him... I personally think it was just lip service to say they were considering a max extension. I can't actually come to believe they'd really do it in any reality.

[cd021]

I'd take Murray at $4 years, $60 million, preferably fully guaranteed.

Jakob at 4 years, $ 25 million would be great value too. tbh

[Down Under]

Agree with the stuff about Dejounte, but I think Poeltl is worth more than $5 million. Rim runners like Gobert, Capella, Drummond & Adams still have good offensive value as well as being elite defensive players (sans Capella). He's a better defender than Looney & fouls a lot less now. I know most people will disagree, but I see him as closer to $10mil.

[tbdog]

Spurs will let Poeltl set his own market value next year unless he gives Spurs a discount now. There's no point negotiating with centers like him these days.

[gospursgojas]

I just don’t see Dj signing for 15 mil a year. I mean Pau got that at 48 years old for 8ppg and 5 rebounds.

I CAN see him easily getting 20 a year on open market after a full season of where his performance was/is in the 2017 season and this years preseason.

If Spurs can lock him up for 15 a year, I’d be shocked but that be a huge win for PATFO.

[Chinook]

You had some pretty good points but I just went back and looked at every rookie extension ever signed and I don't see an example of which you speak. Do you have an example of a player who signed a rookie extension based mostly on their potential rather than their actual production? I don't see any big paydays for a player like Murray with such a short resume. Perhaps I'm missing someone.

You haven't seen an example where a player's second contract was paid with the assumption that the player would "grow into it?" I think if that's true it's missing the trees for the forest. I think our whole perception of what makes a "fair" second contract already includes the bump for potential. Like Wiggins was maxed because Minny thought he would eventually become a non-negative player. Jamal Murray was maxed out because the Nuggets believe he'll go from solidly above average to being a legit star. Not every second deal is like Jokic, Derrick Rose or Kawhi where guys are superstars or already have hardware to justify their deals even if they didn't improve substantially.

I'm not trying to say that production doesn't matter at all. The lack of production is why we aren't debate a max extension for Murray instead of $13M or $25M per year. But I believe young players are usually signed more off narrative than anything else. Murray's narrative is stronger than his NBA history (something for which he's gotten praise and criticism on this board for years now). I think his actual value to the Spurs is higher than PGs who've changed teams this year because their previous clubs didn't seem to want them badly enough. In that same way, Jamal Murray and Pascal Siakam both got maxes more because their teams did well last year than because those guys put up elite statistical production.

I think the best comp for a Murray extension might be Aaron Gordon. He had a strong narrative going for him despite not having a lot of production (13/5/2 with negative impact stats on a TS% of 53). The Magic gave him a $76M/4 deal. Under a 2020 cap, that projects to be around $86M/4. Schoder's extension in today's money is $82M/4. I'd be okay with Murray getting something like that on an extension, because even he he doesn't live up to it, it wouldn't be a horrible deal to have lying around. I'd be elated if you were correct, because that might be the best extension since Curry's. And I'm not all that bullish on DJM, but I can't ride with the idea that he should be content signed a long-term deal with the same APY as Danny Green.

[cd021]

Agree with the stuff about Dejounte, but I think Poeltl is worth more than $5 million. Rim runners like Gobert, Capella, Drummond & Adams still have good offensive value as well as being elite defensive players (sans Capella). He's a better defender than Looney & fouls a lot less now. I know most people will disagree, but I see him as closer to $10mil.

I think Looney was a good comp. tbh He got a decent amount of buzz after his finals performance yet still only got around $5 million. If Jakob comes off the bench then his value will be further suppressed. He may not get a lot in RFA. A 4 year $ 25 million may be market value and a steal for the Spurs considering he looks like a potential future starting 5.

[CGD]

What would Kawhi’s 90M extension with Spurs in 2015 equate to in 2019 cap dollars? That one started at 16M (then) if I recall correctly.

Seems like whatever that is in today dollar would be the super upper limit for the Spurs. And that would be a stretch. KL was coming of NBA final MVP performance, and also enjoying a good league wide “narrative” then.

15-17M, at this juncture, seems right for Murray.

[FutureMan]

You haven't seen an example where a player's second contract was paid with the assumption that the player would "grow into it?" I think if that's true it's missing the trees for the forest. I think our whole perception of what makes a "fair" second contract already includes the bump for potential. Like Wiggins was maxed because Minny thought he would eventually become a non-negative player. Jamal Murray was maxed out because the Nuggets believe he'll go from solidly above average to being a legit star. Not every second deal is like Jokic, Derrick Rose or Kawhi where guys are superstars or already have hardware to justify their deals even if they didn't improve substantially.

I'm not trying to say that production doesn't matter at all. The lack of production is why we aren't debate a max extension for Murray instead of $13M or $25M per year. But I believe young players are usually signed more off narrative than anything else. Murray's narrative is stronger than his NBA history (something for which he's gotten praise and criticism on this board for years now). I think his actual value to the Spurs is higher than PGs who've changed teams this year because their previous clubs didn't seem to want them badly enough. In that same way, Jamal Murray and Pascal Siakam both got maxes more because their teams did well last year than because those guys put up elite statistical production.

I think the best comp for a Murray extension might be Aaron Gordon. He had a strong narrative going for him despite not having a lot of production (13/5/2 with negative impact stats on a TS% of 53). The Magic gave him a $76M/4 deal. Under a 2020 cap, that projects to be around $86M/4. Schoder's extension in today's money is $82M/4. I'd be okay with Murray getting something like that on an extension, because even he he doesn't live up to it, it wouldn't be a horrible deal to have lying around. I'd be elated if you were correct, because that might be the best extension since Curry's. And I'm not all that bullish on DJM, but I can't ride with the idea that he should be content signed a long-term deal with the same APY as Danny Green.

If a contract that lessens over time is possible, like Aaron Gordon’s, I feel like that would be the best option. Something that starts off at maybe $21 million and decreases over 3-4 years to somewhere around $18. It would be tremendously helpful going forward.

[talkspurs]

You had some pretty good points but I just went back and looked at every rookie extension ever signed and I don't see an example of which you speak. Do you have an example of a player who signed a rookie extension based mostly on their potential rather than their actual production? I don't see any big paydays for a player like Murray with such a short resume. Perhaps I'm missing someone.

Maybe Murray bets on himself and holds out for $20+ million this offseason. It could certainly pay off for him. But given the question marks that remain, I'm not sure the Spurs can justify signing him right now to anything over about $17 million. If they're not completely confident in his knee, they probably will prefer to wait it out and see what happens.

I think ~$15 million makes a lot of sense as a compromise. Murray is set for life and cashes in on a large percentage of his potential, the Spurs get a young building block. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

The one I thought of right away was Andrew Wiggions. I think they overpaid for wiggins even at that time but he was paid on showing some promise and what he could do in the future.
Another one although I dont think they agreed to a deal would be Jabri Parker. They were willing to do 18 mil a year. He had injuries issues as well. https://nba.nbcsports.com/2018/02/13/report-bucks-offered-jabari-parker-contract-extension-worth-18-million-annually/.
Salary cap has gone up so I could see Murray starting slightly higher.
Someone mentioned Schroder as a comp (although different players). Which to me is not bad but once again cap has gone up. I also think Murray will be better as he has better Defense and his offense is coming around.

[monty4329]

I am not so high on DJM but he is a must sign. Even at 23/yr.

Who else can we sign next summer for the same money at the same production level? Especially if we don't make the PO this time.
I guess the only if, and is a big IF, is his health: can he play a full year without an injury (slowdown)?

[Mugen]

:lol Doubt it, RC's probably emptying the piggy bank to max Derozan. Those 3 threes in a meaningless preseason game probably got Demar a no trade clause too tbh

[duncan2k5]

DJ is my favorite player, but I think he is too passive... And I think that passiveness comes from being on a team with two ball dominant players that have a history of pouting when they don't get their way on the court... So there are times when I feel he (white also) could get aggressive off a pick and roll (or some favorable matchups) , but wait for DDR or LMA to give them the ball...

What happens is that teams will then not guard u hard in those situations knowing u have a tendency to defer... And this stalls the offense because the player then has to counteract with aggression, but because they aren't accustomed, they take awkward or dumb shots

[ismael-robert]

Will China cause cap to decrease next year

[Joseph Kony]

:lol Doubt it, RC's probably emptying the piggy bank to max Derozan. Those 3 threes in a meaningless preseason game probably got Demar a no trade clause too tbh

spurs and him have like 1 more day to agree on an extension...we'll find out soon enough tbh

[Mugen]

Also :lol @ anybody who thinks Klutch is going to give the Spurs some kind of discount. Wouldn't be surprised if Paul asks for a crazy number and uses the Spurs' refusal to make sure Instagram wants to walk next summer.

[phxspurfan]

Maybe LeBroom wants him in LA after Rondo's gone and so Klutch isn't talking extension :stirpot:

[timvp]

I think the best comp for a Murray extension might be Aaron Gordon. He had a strong narrative going for him despite not having a lot of production (13/5/2 with negative impact stats on a TS% of 53). The Magic gave him a $76M/4 deal. Under a 2020 cap, that projects to be around $86M/4.

You're mistaken regarding which year Gordon got his contract. He got his $76 million, 4-year deal after he averaged 18, 8 and 2. While we can argue about his actual value, Gordon was already a really productive basketball player prior to getting that contract ... certainly much more productive than Murray at any point.

Besides, I don't see the Aaron Gordon comp. Gordon was a fourth overall draft pick, had skills that would make him valuable on the open market, had real statistical production and was already a proven starter. Murray is pretty much the opposite: end of the first round pick, his proven skills aren't really that coveted these days, has only iffy statistical production to point to and isn't yet a proven starter.


Schoder's extension in today's money is $82M/4.

I wouldn't inflate Schroder's money. He signed that in the crazy summer of 2016 when everyone was getting paid due to the salary cap spike (Mozgov and Mahinmi $64 million, Noah $80 million, Parsons $100 or whatever it was :lol). I think Schroder is a good comp otherwise. At the time, he was regarded as perhaps the best backup point guard in the league and was thought to be Atlanta's future starting point guard. But, again, that was such an anomaly of a summer contract-wise that it's difficult to say what it'd translate to in today's league. In my opinion, it's safe to say it'd translate to less money today.


The Magic gave him a $76M/4 deal. Under a 2020 cap, that projects to be around $86M/4. Schoder's extension in today's money is $82M/4. I'd be okay with Murray getting something like that on an extension


And I'm not all that bullish on DJM

You're okay with Murray making $21.5 million a year but you're not that bullish on him? You must think he's already very good or see the market much differently than I do. Personally, as much as I'm hopeful for DJ, I'm not yet convinced he's a long-term starter. Hold a gun to my head and, from what we've seen, I say Derrick White has the better NBA career. I'm hopeful Murray will blossom and the preseason points to him getting better but I still have questions.

I think there's a very real chance Murray averages something like 11, 6 and 4 this season. Even assuming elite defense, I don't think that would net him much higher than ~$15-16 million as a restricted free agent next summer. He'd have to make a leap higher than that to get into that Brogdon range of $21+ million.

Part of my reasoning is the things Murray is good at (defense, rebounding, penetration) isn't coveted much these days. Teams want guards that can shoot. If Murray doesn't take a big leap forward shooting-wise, I just don't see a team breaking the bank for him.

Granted, Murray is such a blank slate right now that it's difficult to know what to expect. There's a legitimate chance that he emerges as a max level player. If that's the case, it'd be great news for the Spurs and I'd be happy when they pay him next summer. As it is, though, I wouldn't be willing to go much higher than $15 million because it's not clear if he'll even have a Patrick Beverley type career.


In that same way, Jamal Murray and Pascal Siakam both got maxes more because their teams did well last year than because those guys put up elite statistical production.


You haven't seen an example where a player's second contract was paid with the assumption that the player would "grow into it?" I think if that's true it's missing the trees for the forest. I think our whole perception of what makes a "fair" second contract already includes the bump for potential. Like Wiggins was maxed because Minny thought he would eventually become a non-negative player. Jamal Murray was maxed out because the Nuggets believe he'll go from solidly above average to being a legit star. Not every second deal is like Jokic, Derrick Rose or Kawhi where guys are superstars or already have hardware to justify their deals even if they didn't improve substantially.

Eh, Siakam had elite statistical production, whether you look at counting stats or advanced stats. I can't argue with him earning the max. He was better than Neph for a stretch of the regular season last year and was pretty damn great in the playoffs, too.

Wiggins was a number one overall pick who scored a lot of points but then stopped working after he got paid. Hard to compare that to Dejounte's situation.

Jamal Murray is a bit of a speculative max, I can agree there, but then again he averaged 18, 5 and 4 as a 22-year-old last year. It's not much of a stretch to imagine him as a legit max player. He bumps that up to 20, 6 and 5 and the Nuggets are pretty happy with that investment.

Dejounte Murray is a different type of speculation. I just don't see a comp that could push his value much passed $15 million right now. I have to factor in Pop's praise and a lot of hype to even get to $15 million, to be honest.

Dante Exum might actually be the best comp the more I think about it due to his mixture of hype and injury concern. Murray has been better than Exum ever was ... but Exum only got $11 million per year, so I don't think that nudges Murray much higher than $15 million.


The lack of production is why we aren't debate a max extension for Murray instead of $13M or $25M per year. But I believe young players are usually signed more off narrative than anything else. Murray's narrative is stronger than his NBA history (something for which he's gotten praise and criticism on this board for years now). I think his actual value to the Spurs is higher than PGs who've changed teams this year because their previous clubs didn't seem to want them badly enough.

The argument is that the narrative with Murray is just because Pop has talked about how high he is on him. We're excited because Pop thinks he'll be good. That's about the extent of the narrative. Nationally, if Pop wouldn't have spoken about Murray's potential, he'd be somewhat of an unknown. The only thing that would stop him from being a complete unknown is his All-Defensive selection two years ago.

And to be fair to Rozier, the Celtics allowed him to walk because they had Kyrie in front of him and now Kemba. They'd allow Dejounte to walk too if he was behind a star. Brogdon was let go because they had already invested $70 million in a point guard (Bledsoe). If they had to do it over again, they go with Brogdon -- especially after how Bledsoe melted down in the playoffs.

[TD 21]

I'm seeing all these comments about people's per game averages, as if this is '99 or something. Since they're mostly context reliant, they're rendered largely irrelevant. If they weren't, the likes of Aldridge and DeRozan would be more valued leaguewide than they are. Spurs fans of all people should know this.

What the Spurs should be looking for from Murray, is whether he can be a driver of neutral or greater offense. 3-point volume/%, assist %, assist/turnover ratio, OBPM, ORPM, on/off, these are the numbers people should be focused on.


I don't think the Klutch representation helps or hurts much. If anything, after Marcus Morris debacle, Murray getting an extension with the Spurs probably helps Klutch regain trust with players and teams.

Don't love the LeVert comp because LeVert is a scorer and a shooting guard, two characteristics that are still rewarded highly. Defense-first point guards are on the other end of the spectrum.

No, I mean they're known to drive a hard bargain.

I know, but he's an inefficient scorer. Give the former the latter's minutes/usage combination and he'd probably average a similar amount.

[MultiTroll]

Time limit?
Any reason they can't wait till mid season to see how Murray is doing?

For that a matter any offer can be matched next season. Seems prudent to wait at least a half a season to see how Murray is doing.
So it costs more at that point. So what. Better to buy proven commodity then overpay for unproven commodity now.

[MultiTroll]

Part of my reasoning is the things Murray is good at (defense, rebounding, penetration) isn't coveted much these days.
Todays NBA. :depressed

Intresting to see if Coach Tim Duncan will have any influence in bringing real hoop back.

[tbdog]

Time limit?
Any reason they can't wait till mid season to see how Murray is doing?

For that a matter any offer can be matched next season. Seems prudent to wait at least a half a season to see how Murray is doing.
So it costs more at that point. So what. Better to buy proven commodity then overpay for unproven commodity now.

In theory, it's best for both parties to get a deal done now. But not the end of the world. Leonard and Spurs didn't agree until the following off-season.

But that was more to do with creating space for LMA.

[talkspurs]

Time limit?
Any reason they can't wait till mid season to see how Murray is doing?

For that a matter any offer can be matched next season. Seems prudent to wait at least a half a season to see how Murray is doing.
So it costs more at that point. So what. Better to buy proven commodity then overpay for unproven commodity now.

If they dont get it done now they have to wait till next off season. Yes you would have a known commodity then but also if he plays well a more expensive commodity.

[Chinook]

You're mistaken regarding which year Gordon got his contract. He got his $76 million, 4-year deal after he averaged 18, 8 and 2. While we can argue about his actual value, Gordon was already a really productive basketball player prior to getting that contract ... certainly much more productive than Murray at any point.

Besides, I don't see the Aaron Gordon comp. Gordon was a fourth overall draft pick, had skills that would make him valuable on the open market, had real statistical production and was already a proven starter. Murray is pretty much the opposite: end of the first round pick, his proven skills aren't really that coveted these days, has only iffy statistical production to point to and isn't yet a proven starter

You're right about Gordon. I thought he has signed an extension. That said, I don't think they're situations are very different at all. Gordon wasn't even rumored to be look at offer sheets, so I don't see his contract as being particularly market-driven.


I wouldn't inflate Schroder's money. He signed that in the crazy summer of 2016 when everyone was getting paid due to the salary cap spike (Mozgov and Mahinmi $64 million, Noah $80 million, Parsons $100 or whatever it was :lol). I think Schroder is a good comp otherwise. At the time, he was regarded as perhaps the best backup point guard in the league and was thought to be Atlanta's future starting point guard. But, again, that was such an anomaly of a summer contract-wise that it's difficult to say what it'd translate to in today's league. In my opinion, it's safe to say it'd translate to less money today.

I'd inflate that money. Both Murray and Schoder have the same narrative going for them. Dennis got starting PG money. He is yet another example of guys getting extensions based on what they're projected to be rather than just what they are.


You're okay with Murray making $21.5 million a year but you're not that bullish on him? You must think he's already very good or see the market much differently than I do.

Yeah, that's sort of what I mean. I don't believe the market works the way you seem to think it does. I don't think there's anything wrong with the Spurs seeing things how you see them. It makes sense to not give Murray more than proven PGs got given he hasn't shown yet that he's better than them. But how is that "fair" from Murray's point of view? Does it really make sense for him to agree to a deal when his value is at it's nadir? Not really. If he's truly concerned about his health and long-term security, then I'd certainly understand giving a lot back to make it work. But outside of another injury, I have a hard time seeing him getting less than $12 Million or so if he waits, no matter how badly he plays.


Part of my reasoning is the things Murray is good at (defense, rebounding, penetration) isn't coveted much these days. Teams want guards that can shoot. If Murray doesn't take a big leap forward shooting-wise, I just don't see a team breaking the bank for him.

I think teams want guys PATFO covets. It'll be one thing if the Spurs stop marketing Murray as a future star and start to bench him. But as long as they go into the off-season of 2020 trying to bring him back, he'll have suitors.

Anyways, we'll probably have to agree to disagree on what "breaking the bank" is. We are talking about two or three tiers lower than the max here.


--Comps--

In truncated that to save some space.

I don't have an issue with Siakam's contract. I do think that it'd be hard to see his 2018-2019 production truly being worth his contract if he doesn't get any better than he is now. 17/7/3 isn't worth $32 Million a year. There was speculation and there was narrative, given his importance to Ujuri and the need for the Raptors to maintain a future after Leonard left. You can make a really strong argument for waiting until next summer to see how Pascal progressed. Two years of production with the second being minus Leonard's and Green's gravity would take out most of the speculation.

It's not hard to compare Wiggins' situation at all. He was paid under the assumption that he'd get better, and he didn't. His contract never looked great, but there was a chance Wiggins could have fixed his issues and not become a top-three worst contract in the league.

I don't think they'd be too happy with less-than-DeRozan production at $34 Million a year. I don't think many folks blame them for doing it. But it was all downside with the best-case scenario pretty much being getting your money back.


Dejounte Murray is a different type of speculation. I just don't see a comp that could push his value much passed $15 million right now. I have to factor in Pop's praise and a lot of hype to even get to $15 million, to be honest.

I understand where you're coming from, but that doesn't make it a good deal for Murray. I think the real answer here is an extension doesn't make sense for either side unless the other gives in a lot to make it happen. The Spurs shouldn't pay Murray as if he's already a great bet, and Murray shouldn't lock himself into a deal that assumes he's not going to have a very good year. Maybe one side will end up regretting not getting an extension done.


Dante Exum might actually be the best comp the more I think about it due to his mixture of hype and injury concern. Murray has been better than Exum ever was ... but Exum only got $11 million per year, so I don't think that nudges Murray much higher than $15 million

Exum's a terrible comp. He certainly started off with the hype, but he was a walking injury issue, and even be the time he got his extension very few folks believed in him. He had an anti-narrative going for him. Best guy in your corner is probably Winslow, since he got less than $15M and got his extension based more on narrative than production.


The argument is that the narrative with Murray is just because Pop has talked about how high he is on him. We're excited because Pop thinks he'll be good. That's about the extent of the narrative. Nationally, if Pop wouldn't have spoken about Murray's potential, he'd be somewhat of an unknown. The only thing that would stop him from being a complete unknown is his All-Defensive selection two years ago.

Can't ride with that. It's not simply Pop carrying that hype train. You're correct that Pop's comments sparked the chatter, but since then, the national media has caught on. It doesn't hurt that Murray's had a number of his best games on national television. It also only helps DJM's stock how Pop treated him after the injury. If Murray comes out and is just a little bit better than he was before, but a lot more consistent? The train is not going to stop. And maybe it shouldn't, because we're talking about a two-time All-Defensive player how has a consistent offensive game, an intriguing physical profile and Pop's stamp of approval? It's not a struggle at all to get him over $15 Million a year.


And to be fair to Rozier, the Celtics allowed him to walk because they had Kyrie in front of him and now Kemba. They'd allow Dejounte to walk too if he was behind a star. Brogdon was let go because they had already invested $70 million in a point guard (Bledsoe). If they had to do it over again, they go with Brogdon -- especially after how Bledsoe melted down in the playoffs.

Do you think the Spurs are going to let Murray walk? I just don't see it. Rozier and the Celtics were on the outs before free agency. They just weren't going to keep him. The Bucks could have traded Bledsoe but simply valued him and Mids more highly. It's not like EB lose all his value just because he didn't perform well in the playoffs. Brogdon's injury history played a big role in his value, both to MKE and on the market. That's why the only thing that would really torpedo DJM's value is another injury. ACL injuries no long really carry a stigma like Achilles injuries do. Brogdon has had lingering injuries that have had him miss chunks of multiple seasons. It's a bigger concern for him. Healthy and a few years younger, he'd've gotten quite a bit more -- and MKE would have probably matched.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

You're right about Gordon. I thought he has signed an extension. That said, I don't think they're situations are very different at all. Gordon wasn't even rumored to be look at offer sheets, so I don't see his contract as being particularly market-driven.



I'd inflate that money. Both Murray and Schoder have the same narrative going for them. Dennis got starting PG money. He is yet another example of guys getting extensions based on what they're projected to be rather than just what they are.



Yeah, that's sort of what I mean. I don't believe the market works the way you seem to think it does. I don't think there's anything wrong with the Spurs seeing things how you see them. It makes sense to not give Murray more than proven PGs got given he hasn't shown yet that he's better than them. But how is that "fair" from Murray's point of view? Does it really make sense for him to agree to a deal when his value is at it's nadir? Not really. If he's truly concerned about his health and long-term security, then I'd certainly understand giving a lot back to make it work. But outside of another injury, I have a hard time seeing him getting less than $12 Million or so if he waits, no matter how badly he plays.



I think teams want guys PATFO covets. It'll be one thing if the Spurs stop marketing Murray as a future star and start to bench him. But as long as they go into the off-season of 2020 trying to bring him back, he'll have suitors.

Anyways, we'll probably have to agree to disagree on what "breaking the bank" is. We are talking about two or three tiers lower than the max here.



In truncated that to save some space.

I don't have an issue with Siakam's contract. I do think that it'd be hard to see his 2018-2019 production truly being worth his contract if he doesn't get any better than he is now. 17/7/3 isn't worth $32 Million a year. There was speculation and there was narrative, given his importance to Ujuri and the need for the Raptors to maintain a future after Leonard left. You can make a really strong argument for waiting until next summer to see how Pascal progressed. Two years of production with the second being minus Leonard's and Green's gravity would take out most of the speculation.

It's not hard to compare Wiggins' situation at all. He was paid under the assumption that he'd get better, and he didn't. His contract never looked great, but there was a chance Wiggins could have fixed his issues and not become a top-three worst contract in the league.

I don't think they'd be too happy with less-than-DeRozan production at $34 Million a year. I don't think many folks blame them for doing it. But it was all downside with the best-case scenario pretty much being getting your money back.



I understand where you're coming from, but that doesn't make it a good deal for Murray. I think the real answer here is an extension doesn't make sense for either side unless the other gives in a lot to make it happen. The Spurs shouldn't pay Murray as if he's already a great bet, and Murray shouldn't lock himself into a deal that assumes he's not going to have a very good year. Maybe one side will end up regretting not getting an extension done.



Exum's a terrible comp. He certainly started off with the hype, but he was a walking injury issue, and even be the time he got his extension very few folks believed in him. He had an anti-narrative going for him. Best guy in your corner is probably Winslow, since he got less than $15M and got his extension based more on narrative than production.



Can't ride with that. It's not simply Pop carrying that hype train. You're correct that Pop's comments sparked the chatter, but since then, the national media has caught on. It doesn't hurt that Murray's had a number of his best games on national television. It also only helps DJM's stock how Pop treated him after the injury. If Murray comes out and is just a little bit better than he was before, but a lot more consistent? The train is not going to stop. And maybe it shouldn't, because we're talking about a two-time All-Defensive player how has a consistent offensive game, an intriguing physical profile and Pop's stamp of approval? It's not a struggle at all to get him over $15 Million a year.



Do you think the Spurs are going to let Murray walk? I just don't see it. Rozier and the Celtics were on the outs before free agency. They just weren't going to keep him. The Bucks could have traded Bledsoe but simply valued him and Mids more highly. It's not like EB lose all his value just because he didn't perform well in the playoffs. Brogdon's injury history played a big role in his value, both to MKE and on the market. That's why the only thing that would really torpedo DJM's value is another injury. ACL injuries no long really carry a stigma like Achilles injuries do. Brogdon has had lingering injuries that have had him miss chunks of multiple seasons. It's a bigger concern for him. Healthy and a few years younger, he'd've gotten quite a bit more -- and MKE would have probably matched.

well that certainly is a lot of words

[timvp]

I understand where you're coming from, but that doesn't make it a good deal for Murray. I think the real answer here is an extension doesn't make sense for either side unless the other gives in a lot to make it happen. The Spurs shouldn't pay Murray as if he's already a great bet, and Murray shouldn't lock himself into a deal that assumes he's not going to have a very good year. Maybe one side will end up regretting not getting an extension done.

That looks like where we will have to agree to meet. Good talk :tu

The way I see it, Murray's range is somewhere between $5 million if he underperforms and $25 million if he overperforms. If he has an average season, he's looking at something between $12 million and $17 million. If he gets injured, he's looking at a contract near the minimum. Murray and his team will have to do the math, balance their risks and see if it makes sense for him to take $15 million now. I don't offer much more than that if I'm the Spurs. If I'm Murray, that's enough to tempt me ... but, yeah, if he wants to bet on himself, he could opt to gamble to get the $40 million he'd potentially be leaving on the table.

We'll see what happens.

[Dex]

well that certainly is a lot of words

:lol

[talkspurs]

So would you rather have Gay or Murray? I realize these play completely different positions but we just signed him to a deal for 2 yr 32 mil or 16 mil a year. I think this would be his floor as Gay only avg 14 7 and 3 last year. I think Murray can get his pretty easily next year with more ast and steals. The big advantage Gay had was we did not have much to replace him as with Murray we have White.

[kobyz]

Should the Detroit Pistons offer Bruce Brown 15mil per year extension? Cause he basically the same player as Murray, Murray just so over hyped!

[objective]

I doubt Rich Paul let's Murray take 4/60.

I'd be comfortable with 4/68 or even 4/72 with unlikely bonuses that could get it to 80. All-star game, Finals appearance, MVP, etc. 17 flat a year with the max 15% of unlikely bonuses would be 4/78.2 million

Speaking of bonuses and salaries, Rudy Gay's 2/32 deal must have had some unlikely bonuses or just plain mis-reported, because Sham and ESPN Trade Machine have his deal as 2/29 with an even 14.5 per year.

[ragas]

I think Looney was a good comp. tbh He got a decent amount of buzz after his finals performance yet still only got around $5 million. If Jakob comes off the bench then his value will be further suppressed. He may not get a lot in RFA. A 4 year $ 25 million may be market value and a steal for the Spurs considering he looks like a potential future starting 5.

I like how Jakob is still underrated :-)) Spurs won't get him for 6 million per. Teams like the Warriors or the Sixers will offer him at least 10 Million per in FA. I also can see him leaving to Toronto and his buddy Pascal, where Gasol and Ibaka will be gone. Should be interesting if it's so easy for the Spurs to get a C like him again.

[exstatic]

I like how Jakob is still underrated :-)) Spurs won't get him for 6 million per. Teams like the Warriors or the Sixers will offer him at least 10 Million per in FA. I also can see him leaving to Toronto and his buddy Pascal, where Gasol and Ibaka will be gone. Should be interesting if it's so easy for the Spurs to get a C like him again.

Warriors and Sixers are both capped out, and can only offer minimum, or use their exceptions.

[ragas]

Warriors and Sixers are both capped out, and can only offer minimum, or use their exceptions.

You're right. Didn't look at that. But I'm pretty sure that Poeltl won't sign for 5 millionen per year and that he gets more money somewhere else if the Spurs don't offer more than that, because I don't agree with the common Spurs Talk opinion that his skillset can easily be found. But what do I know...

[cd021]

I like how Jakob is still underrated :-)) Spurs won't get him for 6 million per. Teams like the Warriors or the Sixers will offer him at least 10 Million per in FA. I also can see him leaving to Toronto and his buddy Pascal, where Gasol and Ibaka will be gone. Should be interesting if it's so easy for the Spurs to get a C like him again.

Teams don't generally go for RFAs early in the off-season, unless they have higher upside like, potientially, Murray. Often times, teams spend their cap and end up limiting RFAs options. GSW and Philly certainly aren't going to be able to a big offer and I don't teams are going to offer the full MLE for Jakob (around $9 million). I think he ends up being squeezed and taking around 4 years, $25 million.

[exstatic]

You're right. Didn't look at that. But I'm pretty sure that Poeltl won't sign for 5 millionen per year and that he gets more money somewhere else if the Spurs don't offer more than that, because I don't agree with the common Spurs Talk opinion that his skillset can easily be found. But what do I know...

The Spurs policy on most RFAs is to let the market set the price. They will make him an offer, wait to see if he gets a better one, and if he does, they'll decide if it fits into their cap plan. If it does, they'll match, but they won't ever bid against themselves.

[cjw]

I know very different players, but 4 / $94mm to Hield just set the market

[timvp]

I know very different players, but 4 / $94mm to Hield just set the market

IMO, his contract pushes Murray's value down a little bit. Hield is the exact type of player teams covet right now and him not getting closer to the max is a sign that agents think the market is going to be tight. Murray's team can't push for $80 million when Hield got $86 million plus potential bonuses. If Hield would have gotten the $110 million he wanted, then maybe the Murray math changes. As it turns out, $50-60 million is still the max range the Spurs should offer.

[ragas]

IMO, his contract pushes Murray's value down a little bit. Hield is the exact type of player teams covet right now and him not getting closer to the max is a sign that agents think the market is going to be tight. Murray's team can't push for $80 million when Hield got $86 million plus potential bonuses. If Hield would have gotten the $110 million he wanted, then maybe the Murray math changes. As it turns out, $50-60 million is still the max range the Spurs should offer.

can you explain what Murray has done so far that he should get 10 million more than Poeltl? Except being traded from the Spurs? His stats including his percentages (Ft, 3p) aren‘t overwhelming. So what makes him that special?

I don‘t get the difference what the Spurs should offer. If Poeltl is worth 5 Million than Murray isn‘t worth 15. That‘s my point.

[timvp]

can you explain what Murray has done so far that he should get 10 million more than Poeltl? Except being traded from the Spurs? His stats including his percentages (Ft, 3p) aren‘t overwhelming. So what makes him that special?

Poeltl is just unlucky. If he were born ten years earlier, he'd be the one looking at taking home the big bucks.

But in today's NBA, traditional centers who don't shoot don't make much money. It's becoming especially drastic the last two summers, where decent traditional centers have to rummage around to find a contract worth more than the minimum.

If Poeltl wants to get paid next summer, he needs something to happen to interrupt the Pace and Space era. Maybe something like the Sixers winning the championship with Embiid leading the way could help push Poeltl's value up. As it is, though, teams just aren't that interested in centers that don't shoot.

[ragas]

I mean it‘s not that Murray shot the lights out so far. And he‘s a PG. So that‘s no argument. And Poeltl‘s impact is more than counting stats like points. If you look at the advanced numbers it’s obvious.

[r0drig0lac]

Boston Celtics forward Jaylen Brown has agreed to a four-year, $115M million contract extension, agent Jason Glushon tells ESPN.

[Degoat]

Celtics are gonna crash and burn lol I like jaylin brown but 115 million is way to much

[cjw]

Boston Celtics forward Jaylen Brown has agreed to a four-year, $115M million contract extension, agent Jason Glushon tells ESPN.

Jaylen making almost $30 a year... a guy who’s shown zero improvement since his rookie year and posts neutral to negative advanced stats. A mid-40s shooter who is a decent three point shooter albeit on low volume, rebound well or pass well. Jeez.

[ragas]

Sabonis signs 4y for 75mil
85 with bonuses

[TheGreatYacht]

Is today the last day for this? Saw Jaylen Brown get 115M/4yr and Buddy Hield get 96M/4yr today.

Would love to see us lock Dejounte up for anything under 80M/4yr. Now is the time to pay him before he breaks out this year and we’re forced to match him for something ridiculous..

[DPG21920]

I really hope with all these extensions coming through, some of them surprisingly (Jaylen and Sabonis), that we don’t hear DeRozan news. It’s the right move to not extend him, see how this year starts, then make a determination at the trade deadline.

[SAGirl]

You haven't seen an example where a player's second contract was paid with the assumption that the player would "grow into it?" I think if that's true it's missing the trees for the forest. I think our whole perception of what makes a "fair" second contract already includes the bump for potential. Like Wiggins was maxed because Minny thought he would eventually become a non-negative player. Jamal Murray was maxed out because the Nuggets believe he'll go from solidly above average to being a legit star. Not every second deal is like Jokic, Derrick Rose or Kawhi where guys are superstars or already have hardware to justify their deals even if they didn't improve substantially.

I'm not trying to say that production doesn't matter at all. The lack of production is why we aren't debate a max extension for Murray instead of $13M or $25M per year. But I believe young players are usually signed more off narrative than anything else. Murray's narrative is stronger than his NBA history (something for which he's gotten praise and criticism on this board for years now). I think his actual value to the Spurs is higher than PGs who've changed teams this year because their previous clubs didn't seem to want them badly enough. In that same way, Jamal Murray and Pascal Siakam both got maxes more because their teams did well last year than because those guys put up elite statistical production.

I think the best comp for a Murray extension might be Aaron Gordon. He had a strong narrative going for him despite not having a lot of production (13/5/2 with negative impact stats on a TS% of 53). The Magic gave him a $76M/4 deal. Under a 2020 cap, that projects to be around $86M/4. Schoder's extension in today's money is $82M/4. I'd be okay with Murray getting something like that on an extension, because even he he doesn't live up to it, it wouldn't be a horrible deal to have lying around. I'd be elated if you were correct, because that might be the best extension since Curry's. And I'm not all that bullish on DJM, but I can't ride with the idea that he should be content signed a long-term deal with the same APY as Danny Green.
I have to agree with you Chinook on all this and other previous statements made on this matter.

[timvp]

Boston Celtics forward Jaylen Brown has agreed to a four-year, $115M million contract extension, agent Jason Glushon tells ESPN.That could help Dejounte...


Sabonis signs 4y for 75mil
85 with bonusesOuch. That hurts Dejounte. It'd be tough to make the argument that Dejounte should make more than Sabonis.

[r0drig0lac]

64/4 contract A+++ for the spurs

[timvp]

I really hope with all these extensions coming through, some of them surprisingly (Jaylen and Sabonis), that we don’t hear DeRozan news. It’s the right move to not extend him, see how this year starts, then make a determination at the trade deadline.

T-minus 84 minutes, amigo. I'm okay with them not extending Murray as long as they don't extend DeRozan.

prayingdog.jpg

[Mugen]

Good call, OP.

[timvp]

Good call, OP.

True :tu

[DPG21920]

T-minus 84 minutes, amigo. I'm okay with them not extending Murray as long as they don't extend DeRozan.

prayingdog.jpg

Yup - in a perfect world Dejounte gets extended in the range you mentioned and DeRozan stays as-is. But if they don’t extend anyone I am totally fine maintaining what they have now, which is flexibility, then seeing what this team needs come the trade deadline/offseason.

Proceed with caution SA. You have a good young core especially considering no lottery picks and potentially a ton of flexibility with LMA small guarantee, DeRozan option and no extensions committed to.

[Mugen]

Great deal provided Instagram continues his trajectory and stays healthy. Though it's all a moot point if they decide to extend Derozan.

[DJR210]

Done!

[MoSpur02]

Good call LJ

[jiggy_55]

Yup - in a perfect world Dejounte gets extended in the range you mentioned and DeRozan stays as-is. But if they don’t extend anyone I am totally fine maintaining what they have now, which is flexibility, then seeing what this team needs come the trade deadline/offseason.

Proceed with caution SA. You have a good young core especially considering no lottery picks and potentially a ton of flexibility with LMA small guarantee, DeRozan option and no extensions committed to.

seems you’re not up to date yet...

[DPG21920]

seems you’re not up to date yet...

Yeah that happens when something gets announced mid-typing :lol

[FkLA]

Good call, timvpimp. :tu

[Chinook]

True :tu

Yeah. I stand corrected. I really thought Murray would hold out and get a lot more next summer. Maybe he could have, but that's not how he wanted to play it. Let's hope he dramatically out plays this deal.

[DPG21920]

Yeah. I stand corrected. I really thought Murray would hold out and get a lot more next summer. Maybe he could have, but that's not how he wanted to play it. Let's hope he dramatically out plays this deal.

I mean, if there were real thoughts he could be 100M guy based off potential, he doesn’t even have to improve to the degree we hope for this type of deal to be solid.

[DPG21920]

Also, maybe hindsight, but Dejounte always struck me as a “Danny Green” type. What I mean is that when people asked Danny about taking a discount, he would respond with “I don’t think I did, I think I got a lot of money and I love the organization”.

Dejounte struck me as similar. He came from nothing, he has a great head on his shoulders and knows that haggling over some millions when you are gettin paid this much borders on bullsh*t even if it’s justified.

He’s claimed the Spurs literally saved his life and with all those pieces being put together, I am not surprised he signed for this money as its both fair and truly life changing for him personally.

[timvp]

Yeah. I stand corrected. I really thought Murray would hold out and get a lot more next summer. Maybe he could have, but that's not how he wanted to play it. Let's hope he dramatically out plays this deal.

https://media.giphy.com/media/yCAoGdVUCW5LW/source.gif

[Mugen]

Also, maybe hindsight, but Dejounte always struck me as a “Danny Green” type. What I mean is that when people asked Danny about taking a discount, he would respond with “I don’t think I did, I think I got a lot of money and I love the organization”.

Dejounte struck me as similar. He came from nothing, he has a great head on his shoulders and knows that haggling over some millions when you are gettin paid this much borders on bullsh*t even if it’s justified.

He’s claimed the Spurs literally saved his life and with all those pieces being put together, I am not surprised he signed for this money as its both fair and truly life changing for him personally.

I bet you clapped during the credits of Avengers: Endgame tbh.

[timvp]

Also, maybe hindsight, but Dejounte always struck me as a “Danny Green” type. What I mean is that when people asked Danny about taking a discount, he would respond with “I don’t think I did, I think I got a lot of money and I love the organization”.

Dejounte struck me as similar. He came from nothing, he has a great head on his shoulders and knows that haggling over some millions when you are gettin paid this much borders on bullsh*t even if it’s justified.

He’s claimed the Spurs literally saved his life and with all those pieces being put together, I am not surprised he signed for this money as its both fair and truly life changing for him personally.

Maybe in hindsight that's how fans will view it. In real time, Spurs fans saw it as "brashness" and that he was brainwashed by Rich Paul and Klutch and needed to be traded ASAP, etc.

[SAGirl]

I also thought he’d hold out for more but it was a good call for him and his team to take this deal now. His track record was short due to the injury and the rook season spent on the Gleague. It’s very clear that both the Spurs and him wanted yo get this done and Dejounte must have factored in the full guarantee and be aware of how much of your life can change with an ill timed injury. Props to Klutch for not steering him towards a wait and see approach be it would be a gamble that other players have taken before and not panned out sometimes.

[DPG21920]

Maybe in hindsight that's how fans will view it. In real time, Spurs fans saw it as "brashness" and that he was brainwashed by Rich Paul and Klutch and needed to be traded ASAP, etc.

Spurs fans saw Dejounte talking about the organization like that? I saw many that took umbrage with him posting in IG, but never his comments on the ORG/Pop.

[DPG21920]

I bet you clapped during the credits of Avengers: Endgame tbh.

:lol the fuk does that even mean

But yeah, I’m always looking for that emotional angle tbh...It’s real. It exists.

[timvp]

Spurs fans saw Dejounte talking about the organization like that?

Many viewed it as part of his IG Balla persona, ya.

[DAF86]

Why would an extremely raw player coming off a season long injury demand max contract money? :lol

[CGD]

Great outcome today:
1. Good deal for DJ
2. no DDR extension
3. Letting the market set price for Poeltl
4. Sets market for Derrick White next year

[Budkin]

timvp with the goods per par.

[Mugen]

:lol the fuk does that even mean

But yeah, I’m always looking for that emotional angle tbh...It’s real. It exists.

It's why you're my guy, Deeps. :violin

[spurraider21]

I bet you clapped during the credits of Avengers: Endgame tbh.
You didn't?

[Mugen]

You didn't?

Shitty compared to Infinity Wars tbh fwiw IMO.

[cjw]

Why would an extremely raw player coming off a season long injury demand max contract money? :lol

You do realize ACL injuries aren’t what they used to be, right?

There are dozens of other injuries that would be worse in a player like Murray. Achilles, back, shoulders, foot (lisfranc), etc. are all much worse. He might not be 100% right now, but almost certainly wil be soon.

Very little risk here.

[DAF86]

You do realize ACL injuries aren’t what they used to be, right?

There are dozens of other injuries that would be worse in a player like Murray. Achilles, back, shoulders, foot (lisfranc), etc. are all much worse. He might not be 100% right now, but almost certainly wil be soon.

Very little risk here.

I'm not complaining about the deal the Spurs made, I think it's fair (far from the bargain many are claiming to be though). I'm laughing at the guys that thought Murray would command max money. :lol

[talkspurs]

Good Job TimVP on calling it. You OWN this site.

Wheres my crow. :hungry::hungry::hungry::hungry::hungry::hungry::h ungry::hungry::hungry::hungry::hungry:

[Seventyniner]

Many viewed it as part of his IG Balla persona, ya.

Murray has always said the right things, to a tee. I don't see how anyone can fault him for what he has said or posted. Sure, Tim would have never made a social media account even if he was 21 years old right now, but Murray is as humble and down-to-earth as can be reasonably expected.

Now he has put his money where his mouth is. I'm pumped to see how he plays and improves over the course of this contract. Here's to him outperforming it a la Curry.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

shocked chinook was dead wrong about anything regarding basketball except cba rules and salary cap arithmetic

[ZeusWillJudge]

Well I think both sides should be happy. I said that I hoped they would get him for $14M per, but looking at those other last minute extensions $16M per is reasonable. DJ has that set-for-life kind of money, and the Spurs didn't max DeRozan.

Spurs fans needed some good news.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

This might be a tangential argument, but I wonder if pop deciding not to play White with Murray at all was perhaps a factor in their negotiations to resign Murray… What I mean is, maybe they wanted to show 100% dedication to Murray as a starting point guard in an effort to get him to resign…