Grades: Spurs vs. Knicks - Oct. 23, 2019

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-new-york-knicks-october-23-2019/

tl;dr: Dejounte Murray is back :danceclub

[MannyIsGod]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-new-york-knicks-october-23-2019/

tl;dr: Dejounte Murray is back :danceclub

I don't disagree with any of them. Good shit.

[GreekSpursfan]

Solid grades.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Very generous grades but a win is a win, even an ugly one.

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, pretty much. Lyles was surprisingly good, Murray had some trouble here or there, especially in handles, but was very good. The game had a lot of mess, but that's okay.

[John B]

Thanks Timvp. I would give Demar lower grade with all the turnovers, unwilling to take the shots. Pop a bit lower for Beli/Mills combination. We can’t have that especially with a longer and much athletic team. Everything else I agree. I’m glad we stuck with Trey. Poeltl seems a great defensive anchor in the 2nd team. I’m very happy with the win. I hope they clean up the next game.

[apalisoc_9]

Disgaree with Defrozen.

I would have given him a D.

Stat padded when the game was done

[$pursDynasty]

Disgaree with Defrozen.

I would have given him a D.

Stat padded when the game was done

Apo he just feasted when the Knicks had Knox on him. If Lonnie played all of DePression's minutes he would have done just as well if not better but then DD would jump off a bridge.

[ElNono]

thanks for the writeup

[testies]

Its just good to beat that xenophobe coach and that awful franchise

[FlAVaK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJcFSVCBuLI

The clip from houseofhighlights used in the article seems to be blocked...

[AussieFanKurt]

Just glad we won considering our last few seasons vs Knicks

[ceperez]

The big reveal was that Lyles got a ton of playing time.

The lesson learned here is that Pop keeps players on the court who know where to be on both offense and defense.

[Maddog]

The big reveal was that Lyles got a ton of playing time.

The lesson learned here is that Pop keeps players on the court who know where to be on both offense and defense.

I was pleasantly surprised. I've been on record saying I thought he'd be possibly out of the league at the end of the season.
It's one game*, but maybe the light came on?

*He did do well in the last game or two in pre-season, FWIW...

[Dejounte]

Trey just needs to bulk and he has a 10 year nba career.

[Dr. John R. Brinkley]

Things could get weird with DDR. He’s playing for a contract but looks confused as far as what his role is. As others have said, his best to use would be as a six man for the second unit just to score, but understandably he realizes that would kill his perceived worth. So who the hell knows where this is going with him.

[tbdog]

Trey was really surprising and was good. I liked Mills energy overall. Gay looks thick, perhaps Spurs staff told him to put on mass due to the Nuggets series. It was about 6 mins left there was a shot of the Spurs bench and I forgot Carrol was on the team.

[BatManu20]

Good write up OP :tu. Knicks have quickly become my 2nd most hated team in the league tbh. Lakers still #1 obv. Glad we didn’t drop the first one to them.

My takeaways from the game: Dejounte is the real deal and his contract is going to be a steal for the next 4 years as he improves. Guy just turned 23. Trey Lyles played surprisingly well with 8 & 11 on 3/4 shooting. Only reason the game was competitive was because of the 21 turnovers. Gotta clean that up. Patty and Marccon the floor together is a disaster defensively. Pop can’t do that anymore. AND FREE LONNIE.

[KobesAchilles]

Pop deserves an F just for playing Patty and Marco together again. I had hoped since we literally lost a playoff series bc of this foolishness, he would’ve learned his lesson, but no. Also for keeping Walker as a DNP, that adds to his F.

[SpursDynasty85]

The big reveal was that Lyles got a ton of playing time.

The lesson learned here is that Pop keeps players on the court who know where to be on both offense and defense.

I think it's a combination of his role being very limited and him fitting exactly what we need.
Gay and Carroll both look old and defensive liabilities inside and Poetl and LMA lineup were too slow on the perineter. Lyles with his talent and a few adjustments ended up fitting like a puzzle. Thanks Marcus Morris?

[pgardn]

There is nowhere else to find a write up this good (arguing w/ final grades is fairly silly imo)
The basic description of the structure of the game and how the players fit in is wonderful.
Knowing POP and being able to describe how his starters and subbing compare to other games is outstanding.

OP should be getting paid.

[Fireball]

thx for the grades ... I am glad Spurs basketball is back

I have the Knicks as a bottom 5 team in the NBA, so its not really promising how the Spurs won. I the game in NY will be an egg laid for sure

But damn when Murray can play 32 minutes and Belli gets injured so Lonnie gets some minutes I am not complaining about getting League Pass again.

[BackHome]

Always a pleasure to read Game Grades thanks much appreciated.

[poopbox]

It worries me how ineffective LMA was when the spurs played fast...and the spurs are going to be at their best this year playing fast...there is now enough talent on this team that we don't really need to run the give it to lma in the post 6 times in a row and watch him offense...especially against the damn knicks...

I think Lyles is in the starting lineup more because the second unit needs Poeltl in the second unit as a good screener and rim runner...so somebody needs to start in the front court other than him...Lyles was really good defensively though...not sure if he is ever going to be given the opportunity to be aggressive on offense because dejounte and forbes seem to have the green light to shoot whenever they want and you know LMA and Demar are not going to be shy about putting up points... If he can get 8 to 12 points a game while playing good defense and being a good rebounder that would be great for a guy who came here last minute because Morris decided to go to New York and play on a team with a thousand guys who play his position...

[boutons_deux]

Is DNP Walker hurt?

[poopbox]

Things could get weird with DDR. He’s playing for a contract but looks confused as far as what his role is. As others have said, his best to use would be as a six man for the second unit just to score, but understandably he realizes that would kill his perceived worth. So who the hell knows where this is going with him.

The problem with Demar is that Murray has shown he is going to be moderately aggressive on offense and Forbes is going to shoot every semi open catch and shoot opportunity he gets...so he is just going to have less opportunities this year to handle the ball and to score...

[look_at_g_shred]

The problem with Demar is that Murray has shown he is going to be moderately aggressive on offense and Forbes is going to shoot every semi open catch and shoot opportunity he gets...so he is just going to have less opportunities this year to handle the ball and to score...
Which makes the team better.

[mo7888]

The problem with Demar is that Murray has shown he is going to be moderately aggressive on offense and Forbes is going to shoot every semi open catch and shoot opportunity he gets...so he is just going to have less opportunities this year to handle the ball and to score...

This- to add, as his touches go down, in a contract year, he's going to become disgruntled and a disgruntled demar is going to be awful from a chemistry standpoint. In addition, it will degrade his trade value. If it was me, I'd force feed him for a few weeks and trade him early in the season.

[Mugen]

Lonnie getting shelved (probably the first month of the season or so) for Beli might be one of the biggest injustices of the 21st century :lol

The Suckers' defense of Pop refusing to play him in the rotation is akin to 9/11 truthers tbh.....

[Pavlov]

Lonnie will play this season. Might even be one of those cases where he plays one game for Austin and dominates so convincingly that there's no reason to keep him there anymore.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Pretty solid grades and writeup, as usual.

People bitch a lot about Pop, but I thought starting Lyles was a good move. Most people agree that he had tremendous potential when he came to the league, but he has fallen short of living up to it. If he's going to turn the corner and contribute for the Spurs, he has to be given an opportunity. Pop just told him, "I think you're starter material. Now go prove it." Yeah, he was passive on the offensive end, but I'm not so sure that playing D and snatching rebounds weren't the things he needed to prioritize in his first regular season game here. I like Poeltl, but he's more of an old-school C. Lyles is a better fit for the modern game. If Pop can get him to live up to more of his potential, it will be a great coaching move. If he falters, I'm confident we'll see Poeltl starting again.

I also thought (finally) relieving Forbes of PG duties was a great move. As a ball handler, he's a liability - but as a shooter, he's a potent weapon. He improved his defense as last season progressed. He's not going to become a stopper, but he's not the train wreck he was this time last season.

Someone commented that DeRozan stat-padded at the end. But he came in with 8:20 left in the game, and the Spurs down by 6, and immediately blunted the Knicks' momentum with two layups. And because of those two layups, he was able to freeze the defense and feed Forbes for two wide open 3's. That was anything but stat-padding in garbage time. That's the DDR we need to see. I don't know what the hell was wrong with him earlier in the game, but at least give him credit for coming through in a pinch. But I hope we don't see that other DeMar DeRozan again any time soon.

I commented on it in the game thread, but the Spurs closed both of the first two quarters very poorly. They just lost focus, especially in the second quarter. They could have put their foot on the Knicks' necks, and instead they let them have hope. Games are lost that way. Pop seems to say that he can't make professionals focus, or shouldn't have to. But I think some of that loss of focus is on him to manage.

[TheGreatYacht]

Don’t get why people love Lyles tbh. He can’t defend, at all, not even a little bit. He got his points from open layups and dunks. No one bothers to cover the guy on the 3pt line. His advanced stats have been horrendous his entire career and they were even worse last night.

This is even worse than the Bertans short bus because at least the guy was elite at one thing. Lyles is below average at everything and no one has yet to tell me one thing he does well.

I will be proven correct later on (as usual) just like I was when everyone swore Fathead and Bertans were good.

[John B]

Things could get weird with DDR. He’s playing for a contract but looks confused as far as what his role is. As others have said, his best to use would be as a six man for the second unit just to score, but understandably he realizes that would kill his perceived worth. So who the hell knows where this is going with him.
He was overpassing last night. Just shoot it if already open. I know that Pop used to preach overpassing with the beautiful game.

[John B]

Don’t get why people love Lyles tbh. He can’t defend, at all, not even a little bit. He got his points from open layups and dunks. No one bothers to cover the guy on the 3pt line. His advanced stats have been horrendous his entire career and they were even worse last night.

This is even worse than the Bertans short bus because at least the guy was elite at one thing. Lyles is below average at everything and no one has yet to tell me one thing he does well.

I will be proven correct later on (as usual) just like I was when everyone swore Fathead and Bertans were good.
He has great bball IQ like Boris. He positions well

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Going to be interesting to see how long Pop refuses to play Murray and White together.

[superbigtime]

great start considering no real training camp and a ton of turnovers. murray looks great. He can call his number and find others, thought Rudy was solid, LA looked effortless, loving Forbes' game. DeRozan can be really good for us if he becomes content fitting in. Murray is going to be absolutely huge for us.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Easiest bet of the night was taking the Knicks +11 last night. Pop not playing DJ and White together along with pairing Wombat and Belli made it a super safe bet. Plus the fact I knew he was gonna bench Lonnie

[emanueldavidginobili]

Marco playing 18 minutes while contributing to absolutely nothing and playing atrocious defense while Lonnie can’t get a SECOND of action. Meanwhile (11)Carson Edwards,(34) Tyler Herro,(22) Matisse Thybulle,(22) Edmond Sumner,(27) Kendrick Nunn,(12) Anfernee Simons all rookies or second year guys getting minutes on playoff teams last night.

[r0drig0lac]

Pop deserves an F just for playing Patty and Marco together again. I had hoped since we literally lost a playoff series bc of this foolishness, he would’ve learned his lesson, but no. Also for keeping Walker as a DNP, that adds to his F.

this

[DPG21920]

There should never be a game with White playing good defense and no foul troubles where he plays less than Marco. Forget Lonnie for now. It’s white losing minutes that is completely unjustified

[Dex]

Trey was really surprising and was good. I liked Mills energy overall. Gay looks thick, perhaps Spurs staff told him to put on mass due to the Nuggets series. It was about 6 mins left there was a shot of the Spurs bench and I forgot Carrol was on the team.

Funny you mention that...I just had a chance to watch the game and I totally forgot about Carroll as well. Interesting that he didn't see a single minute considering he was the Spurs "big" acquisition of the offseason.

Wonder if he is having trouble coming up to speed, or if there is something going on physically.

[BillMc]

There should never be a game with White playing good defense and no foul troubles where he plays less than Marco. Forget Lonnie for now. It’s white losing minutes that is completely unjustified

I agree with this. Lonnie really didn't show alot in the preseason. It's White who should take Marco's minutes.

[Dejounte]

White is playing too damn timid and needs to wake up.

[ceperez]

Pretty solid grades and writeup, as usual.

People bitch a lot about Pop, but I thought starting Lyles was a good move. Most people agree that he had tremendous potential when he came to the league, but he has fallen short of living up to it. If he's going to turn the corner and contribute for the Spurs, he has to be given an opportunity. Pop just told him, "I think you're starter material. Now go prove it." Yeah, he was passive on the offensive end, but I'm not so sure that playing D and snatching rebounds weren't the things he needed to prioritize in his first regular season game here. I like Poeltl, but he's more of an old-school C. Lyles is a better fit for the modern game. If Pop can get him to live up to more of his potential, it will be a great coaching move. If he falters, I'm confident we'll see Poeltl starting again.

I also thought (finally) relieving Forbes of PG duties was a great move. As a ball handler, he's a liability - but as a shooter, he's a potent weapon. He improved his defense as last season progressed. He's not going to become a stopper, but he's not the train wreck he was this time last season.

Someone commented that DeRozan stat-padded at the end. But he came in with 8:20 left in the game, and the Spurs down by 6, and immediately blunted the Knicks' momentum with two layups. And because of those two layups, he was able to freeze the defense and feed Forbes for two wide open 3's. That was anything but stat-padding in garbage time. That's the DDR we need to see. I don't know what the hell was wrong with him earlier in the game, but at least give him credit for coming through in a pinch. But I hope we don't see that other DeMar DeRozan again any time soon.

I commented on it in the game thread, but the Spurs closed both of the first two quarters very poorly. They just lost focus, especially in the second quarter. They could have put their foot on the Knicks' necks, and instead they let them have hope. Games are lost that way. Pop seems to say that he can't make professionals focus, or shouldn't have to. But I think some of that loss of focus is on him to manage.

:bobo

Lyles might be the surprise of the season. He started, played 24 minutes and finished the game. The reason to like his game is that he looks comfortable in the system.

He's on a 2 year $11m contract. That's not bad for a guy who 11 rebounds and 75% shooting (8 points). He doesn't have to look to score, just look for easy opportunities.

[raybies]

:bobo

Lyles might be the surprise of the season. He started, played 24 minutes and finished the game. The reason to like his game is that he looks comfortable in the system.

He's on a 2 year $11m contract. That's not bad for a guy who 11 rebounds and 75% shooting (8 points). He doesn't have to look to score, just look for easy opportunities.
He really did make his efforts look easy out there. Not bad for first official game as a Spur. He has a lot more room for growth. With how much attention the other four starters will get, he'll have his opportunities to shine. As DD said "Smooth." I agree

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Funny you mention that...I just had a chance to watch the game and I totally forgot about Carroll as well. Interesting that he didn't see a single minute considering he was the Spurs "big" acquisition of the offseason.

Wonder if he is having trouble coming up to speed, or if there is something going on physically.

In the little bit of run he got in the preseason he looked like crap. Two steps slow and his jumper was rotating sideways. Hopefully it's injury related, or else he really just sucks.

[DPG21920]

Funny you mention that...I just had a chance to watch the game and I totally forgot about Carroll as well. Interesting that he didn't see a single minute considering he was the Spurs "big" acquisition of the offseason.

Wonder if he is having trouble coming up to speed, or if there is something going on physically.

He looks physically worse than Rudy Gay and that’s not a good thing...that’s the problem. You see how Carroll is moving in the pre season? Looks completely washed man.

[Dex]

In the little bit of run he got in the preseason he looked like crap. Two steps slow and his jumper was rotating sideways. Hopefully it's injury related, or else he really just sucks.


He looks physically worse than Rudy Gay and that’s not a good thing...that’s the problem. You see how Carroll is moving in the pre season? Looks completely washed man.

Yeah, I did notice that. He had that one game where he looked great and the rest of the time he was definitely underwhelming.

Let's hope its just something physical that he can shake off, because if he is really so far behind on the system (or just washed up) that Pop can't even find him minutes, it doesn't bode well.

[John B]

:bobo

Lyles might be the surprise of the season. He started, played 24 minutes and finished the game. The reason to like his game is that he looks comfortable in the system.

He's on a 2 year $11m contract. That's not bad for a guy who 11 rebounds and 75% shooting (8 points). He doesn't have to look to score, just look for easy opportunities.
Lyles has good bball iq like Boris, he can shoot, pass the ball, rebound and place himself well. He space for Aldridge. He could very well be the best acquisition of the summer if he pans out.

[LaMarcus Bryant]

its pretty cool how all the posters on this site are so used to Pop and this kind of stuff that we all laugh about Belli and Mills together.
Used to be 10 threads per game over these kinda decisions but now we all just take it in stride

[stu scotts eye]

I know the stat sheet showed Lyles got 11 rebounds. But cmon, he doesn't look like a long term solution at SF.

Too slow for more athletic matchups. Cant/wont shoot to help spread the floor on offense. He just moves in slowmo, and it makes onewonder what is it with Pop starting these type of players.

[timvp]

I know the stat sheet showed Lyles got 11 rebounds. But cmon, he doesn't look like a long term solution at SF.
I got some good news for you then.

[Mugen]

I got some good news for you then.

:lol

[ceperez]

Lyles has good bball iq like Boris, he can shoot, pass the ball, rebound and place himself well. He space for Aldridge. He could very well be the best acquisition of the summer if he pans out.

You can't ignore that Lyles started and finished the game. Pop was comfortable with his presence on both sides of the court.

Interesting that Poetl and Lyles are the same age. Forbes and White are both older than these two.

[barakz21]

Gotta admit, Lyles was.. not bad. He seemed invisible though, which isn’t exactly a bad thing. The guy had a quiet, near double double.

[stu scotts eye]

I got some good news for you then.

Yeah. I'll remember to revisit this posting at the end of the year. Meant power fwd but really doesnt change anything I've said.

He will prove to be useless. Non dynamic. Limited upside. Low energy.

[Keepin' it real]

On pace for 82-0 ... and a first-round exit.

[EasyMoney]

Yeah. I'll remember to revisit this posting at the end of the year. Meant power fwd but really doesnt change anything I've said.

He will prove to be useless. Non dynamic. Limited upside. Low energy.



He does not play sf

[stu scotts eye]

Read my entire post.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

I know the stat sheet showed Lyles got 11 rebounds. But cmon, he doesn't look like a long term solution at SF.

Too slow for more athletic matchups. Cant/wont shoot to help spread the floor on offense. He just moves in slowmo, and it makes onewonder what is it with Pop starting these type of players.

lyles plays 4 dude

[stu scotts eye]

lyles plays 4 dude

Keep reading down the thread.

[BackHome]

I thought Lyles played PF?

[RC_Drunkford]

I know the stat sheet showed Lyles got 11 rebounds. But cmon, he doesn't look like a long term solution at SF.

Too slow for more athletic matchups. Cant/wont shoot to help spread the floor on offense. He just moves in slowmo, and it makes onewonder what is it with Pop starting these type of players.

He's faster than Kyle Anderson though, so that should work out