Roster after reported 3way deal.

[Marcus Bryant]

First off, capwise this deal doesn't happen unless the Spurs send out a player currently under contract or they change the terms of Horry's deal (which as far as I know hasn't been signed yet) to where his salary for next season starts at a lower rate, but the Spurs give him more years (1 or 2 more years).

Secondly, if this deal happens and they are unable to find another home for Mercer within 48 hours then they would have the spots on the active roster to take on Turkoglu and Mercer without sending anyone out...as well as to re-sign Jack. Yes, things would be crowded, but Mercer will not be in SA past next season. In addition, the Spurs would not sign a backup point guard they would use Kerr and Ginobili to spot relief for Parker.

Roster after this deal assuming that all the Spurs give up are picks and that they re-sign Jack:

1 Parker
2 Ginobili or Jackson
3 Bowen
4 Duncan
5 Nesterovic

Bench:

1 Kerr
2 Ginobili or Jackson/Mercer
3 Turkoglu
3/4 Horry
4 Rose
5 Willis

IR
2 DBrown
Summerleague player
Summerleague player

I would expect Horry, Kerr, Willis, and Mercer to see spot minutes off the bench with Ginobili or SJackson, Rose, and Turkoglu being a part of the 8 man rotation.

If you complain about this deal then you are......a Spurs fan.

:next3

[Spurminator]

Should we consider S&Ting Jack for a backup PG?

Can we even do that?

http://
http://www.ooze.com/finger/assets/images/jcash.jpg

[Marcus Bryant]

I don't see the need. With that crew you have a number of solid ballhandlers (Kerr, Manu, & Turkoglu). Much better to keep Jack.

[scott]

Maybe its just me, but Mercer is good enough to be more of a spot minute player in my opinion. I get the feeling this deal pushes Jackson out the door. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

[KoriEllis]

I don't love Turkoglu, but I will bitch about this deal ONLY if they send off someone who is currently under contract (Bowen or Malik).

Pop/RC love Turkoglu, so this is a good trade for the Spurs if it happens.

It also makes the Spurs more foreign -- which is the cool way to go these days. :wink

[Marcus Bryant]

Well, Mercer would be good enough if he was on another team. Yes, if this deal happened they could absorb the loss of Jack more easily...but I suspect they will want him back and that Mercer won't have a long term home in SA.

[Spurminator]

Ideally, I'd like to have a legit backup PG so Kerr doesn't have to see heavy minutes. Don't really see the need for Mercer AND Jackson on the same team, with so few minutes available for swingmen anyway.

Of course, I do want Jackson after Mercer is gone... so I suppose in a perfect world we could get a PG for Mercer (aka Cap Space 2004).

But I'm ecstatic with this deal either way.

http://
http://www.ooze.com/finger/assets/images/jcash.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

Kerr isn't going to be the main backup PG. Gill had a decent SL and we'll see if anyone else out there who can play night in - night out.

[Marcus Bryant]

Another possibility is that they could send out Mercer for a backup point guard within the 48 hours after the deal...or they could wait until the trade deadline next season to do so.

Also, maybe they could work with a 9 man rotation if Manu sees minutes at point........

[Marcus Bryant]

A Kerr-Ginobili platoon.

[KoriEllis]

I understand they are doing this deal because of Jack's agent wanting a long term contract and the Spurs wanting a shorter deal. So I don't see them signing Jack if this goes down. Which I think will be bad for Jack personally, but I don't think would damage the Spurs that much. The 2/3 is crowded.

[Marcus Bryant]

Damn that sucks. Fegan takes another young player out of a good situation.

[DuffMcCartney]

I sure hope this deal doesnt go down, I prefer to keep Jax, more than I want Turkoglu. Mercer is average but I still want Jax, he is clutch as hell. Yes on Hedo, negative on Mercer.

[Marcus Bryant]

Duff, GFY.

Sincerely,
MB

[ShoogarBear]

Good lineup, capable of beating the Lakers, but more than a few questions.

I'd prefer to keep SJax and let Mercer go, but I just don't see the minutes working out with SJax on the roster.

Maybe we can get by with Kerr 10 min/game and Manu 5/game at the point, but what happens when Tony goes into one of his extended funks?

I hope Horry is okay with more than a few DNPs. And Bowen is okay with having his minutes significantly reduced (probably ~25/game).

Also, I think Willis ends up playing more minutes this year than last.

[F7]

Manu is more than capable of playing extended minutes at the court. He has the handles and court vision to get it done.

[Spursman]

There has to be more to this trade than we know. There is no way that the Kings get Miller, Pacers get Pollard and we get Turkoglu and Mercer. We will have to package somebody and my guess is that it would be Jackson.

Kings send Pollard to the Pacers
The Pacers send Miller to the Kings
The Spurs get Turkoglu and Mercer

Anybody see a gap there?

[Marcus Bryant]

Well Mercer is the throwaway if Jack stays. The Spurs wouldn't care about his minutes because they will want him gone past next season.

Turkoglu would be the long term starter at the 3.

Horry didn't come to SA for a heavy role.

[Marcus Bryant]

Again, if the Spurs get Horry to agree to a longer term deal at a lower starting salary then thay can do this deal with just picks.

[SkinDogg]

Well, first off - hello everyone - I've lurked here for a bit and you've probably seen me idling in the chats.

I'm curious about the whole saving money for Manu thing, so I put together some numbers. Gives me something to do while waiting to see if the deal goes down.:wink

Feel more than welcome to correct these numbers if any are wrong.

2004-2005 salaries:

Duncan - $14,259,740 (7 years, 122M)
Nesterovic - $6,160,000 (6 years, 42M)
Bowen - $4,080,000 (3 years, 11.2M)
Ginobili - $2,002,000 (130% of 2003-04 salary of $1,540,000)
Parker - $1,545,441 (4th year for 28th pick @ 120%)
Turkoglu - $2,803,833 (QO for 16th pick @ 120%)
Rose - $5,462,500 (1.25 x $4,370,000 salary for last year)

Roster Fill - $1,541,108 (4x$385,277)
-----------
$37,854,622

Now, I'm assuming they would renounce Manu's early bird rights and use the money under the cap to sign him. Instead of the 2M they would get charged the min prior to signing ($385,277) for a gain of $1,616,723.

Bringing the total to: $36,237,899 (~37.8M - ~1.6M)

This leaves you with $7,562,101 (on a 43.8M cap)

Odds are the cap will go up, but then you'd have to account for Horry's deal if he is signed to longer than one year. It looks pretty borderline to me, assuming that signing Manu could command 6.5-7M starting.

I had done out these numbers by hand and then checked them with numbers at hoopshype and some matched exactly. That in itself leads me to believe some may be incorrect, but who knows.

The one wildcard I'm not sure about is what Turkoglu would count against the cap. Would it be the QO? or would it be the standard 300% for ending rookie contracts below the league's average salary? I've worked it out based on the QO offer figure - 300% of the year 4 salary would pretty well kill any extra caproom.

Finally, as much as I hate the idea of giving up Jackson, if Dan Fegan is hell bent on trying to screw the spurs again, then Turkoglu is a very solid replacement.

[Spursman]

I doubt very seriously that the Spurs will renounce Manu's early Bird rights. That would be a slap to the face.

[timvp]

C Rasho - 30
PF Duncan - 38
SF Hedo - 30
SG Manu - 35
PG Parker - 35

PF Rose - 28
SF Bowen - 22
SG Jackson - 22


That's a solid 8 man rotation.

:hat2

[SkinDogg]

Spursman, Manu's salary from last season counts against the cap. Since they would be using money under the cap to sign him, renouncing those rights would hurt nothing - it would just give them more money to resign him with.

The early bird exception is used so that a team can go over the cap to resign one of their own players. That would not be the case in the situation I'm throwing out.

I probably wasn't clear enough above.

(again, anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in this assumption)

[ShoogarBear]

Given Pop's biases and loyalties, I bet Bowen starts.

And if SJax stays, I hope the coaches aren't like most Spur fans and plan on having him and Manu compete for the starting slot, rather than just hand it to Ginobili.

[Spursman]

I could see Bowen starting, but Pop is also one to let a players play determine if he will start or not. If Hedo outplays Bowen for the most part then I don't think it would be a big surprise that he would start.

[T Park Num 9]

Jackson is gone according to Marc Stein.

**** him.

He wants to blow up his career, be my guest.


Pop made him, and he supposedly said "no other coach can control me"

Well Jack, wait till you see life on the other side of the tracks.

youll be begging to come back.

What a tool for letting feegin do this to him.

[Spursman]

I never heard anything saying that Jackson said he didn't want to come back. Not even close. As far as I know he plans on being back, it's just the Spurs may/may not deel different.

[RBodenburg2150]

Here's an interesting point to consider when thinking about how Mercer fits in and who is the backup PG -- I believe Mercer played some backup PG for the Pacers last year, before they signed Hardaway. It's not his natural position, but I know he did see some spot duty there. It's possible that the Spurs might just let Manu and Mercer see a few minutes handling the ball when Parker is out, and maybe Kerr when the situation deems it.

Also, as Kori alluded to, this makes the Spurs even more foreign. They could legitimately field a starting lineup in which none of the players were born in the continental United States: TP, Manu, Hedo, Duncan and Rasho. Interesting.

[WriterNum934]

Or...

Rasho, Okalaja, Hedo, Manu, Parker.

You know, if you "really" wanted an all foreign line-up.

[Jimcs50]

The Spurs are becoming the Utah Jazz....a lot of white dudes. What is going on? I can understand why Utah has to give in to the freaking Mormons who are prejudiced as as hell, but what is with SA? Now are they still going after Piatkowski? Hmmmm.

[Solid D]

So this is the deal that you knew might happen. Not the deals you THOUGHT would happen...but the deal you knew might happen...that is...

Pop and RC coming up with something out of the blue that nobody expected. Yeah, that deal.

I was amazed to hear the early rumors on the radio while driving today. If true, wow! Mercer rarely has a pulse and had charisma by-pass surgery when he was young, but he can flat out score when he's hot and he's very strong on the ball. Hedo is a matchup nightmare for other teams. Don Nelson will be sooooo jealous.

One quandry...(everyone should have this quandry)...if this deal goes down and Horry is a Spur. Which one of the three will wear number "5"? All three did last year. How about that for Twilight Zone material?

[WriterNum934]

The Spurs are becoming the Utah Jazz....a lot of white dudes. What is going on? I can understand why Utah has to give in to the freaking Mormons who are prejudiced as as hell, but what is with SA? Now are they still going after Piatkowski? Hmmmm.

Why do you have to turn this into a race issue?

[Solid D]

Dude!

Nesterovic.....Rose...........Willis
Duncan.........Horry
Bowen..........Turkoglu
Ginobili..........Mercer........Devin Brown
Parker...........Kerr

[Marcus Bryant]

Could be Jack in that lineup and DBrown on IR waiting for Kerr to retire and Mercer to end his cameo in SA.

:)

[MannyIsGod]

You realize we could field a lineup of players born outside the 50 US states.

I don't consider TD a forgien player, the virgin islands are part of the US after all. But 3 Euro's, A latin guy, and the best player in the nba.

**** yeah.

[WriterNum934]

How can someone playing for the US on the Olympics be foreign?

To consider Tim foreign is just plain stooopid.

[MannyIsGod]

Writer, Sean Bradley was going to play for the german team...so thats a not a convincing arguement.


Anyhow, the national media always plays up Tim Duncan as a forgien player because he was born in the Virgin Islands, I always wish they'd take Geography 101.

Regardless, I'm happy as hell, I love euro game. It's a great shooting, great PASSING game built around a team concept. I'm in heaven.

ALL EURO 2003


I LOVE YOU GUYS.

[Marcus Bryant]

Damn right. Time to grab some TC.

[Solid D]

I'll add one name to my earlier posts in this thread.

Nesterovic.....Rose...........Willis
Duncan.........Horry
Bowen..........Turkoglu
Ginobili..........Mercer........Devin Brown
Parker...........Kerr............Kenny Anderson?

Glenn Rogers mentioned Kenny Anderson as a possible FA backing up the point. Has he gotten to the point of just being added to a team via the Veteran Exception?

[Ghost Writer]

I hate our roster for next season.

We're back to being a bunch of pvssies.

I didn't expect to stay the same or get worse this summer.

Terrible.










:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

:lol WTF?

[Ghost Writer]

I don't know what's so funny, homer.

We're lsoing our ballas and replacing them with watered-down players.

We should've traded Smitty for Artest & Mercer in 2001 like I pushed for.

What a f'ing joke this Holt-ing Pattern has been.



P.S.

You called Mercer a cancer back then.



:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

What's funny is you, bitch.

Ok, the Spurs get Ron "Crackhead" Artest in 2001. Then they have to retain his ass and pay him $8 mil a season or whatever. I'm sure the Spurs win a title with that goofball having his on- and off-court breakdowns. Bowen's a better defensive 3 for the Spurs' purposes anyways.

If they did that deal then they couldn't have landed Turkoglu this summer.

Beyond this, grow the hell up and stop your childish ranting about "The Holting Pattern." You are demonstrating your stupidity this morning...yet again.

:)

[MannyIsGod]

lmao.

oh man.

I can't even agrue this morning, it's too pointless.

But this is funny.

:rollin

:next3

[Solid D]

GW, I know it hurts to think about losing Jack. I feel your pain, bro' but don't look so downcast. Turk is a matchup-plus for the Spurs and Mercer, if he stays is far from soft. It's all about the role players.

Look on the bright side, G-Dub...Mercer at least wears a headband!

http://www.nba.com/media/act_ron_mercer.jpg

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, well, now that's important.

[NCaliSpurs]

We're back to being a bunch of pvssies.

I didn't expect to stay the same or get worse this summer.


Boy, you really are a pessimist.

The Spurs are a much better team than they were last year, talent wise.

D-Rob was great last year, but always on the verge of injury. Rasho will be able to take a lot more abuse without worry.

Tim Duncan found a new level of his game in the playoffs. There is no answer to Tim Duncan. I hear Shaq is in better shape. He better be. Otherwise, they wasted all that pre-ejaculate over GP and Malone.

Parker - He showed some off-court attitude finally. **** Pop and his maturity card. Parker, it is ok to act your age. Now go out there and score you little frenchmen.

Manu- Yeah, he is a bust. :sleepy
No improvement there.

Mercer- A couple of years ago he average 19.7 ppg on 45% shooting when he actually got significant minutes. We can't use any scorers on this team.

Turkoglu - This guy is a talent. Just look at his body and his game.

Horry- We stole the dagger from the Lakers!!!! We rest his legs a little, let him have some 3 pt shooting contests in practice with Kerr, and this man will come through for us in the playoffs. Imagine when Duncan is getting quadruple-teamed in the playoffs in crunch time, he could pass to Horry OR Kerr.

We lost Speedy, and he helped some last year. He is a lot more replaceable than some here think. The FA period ain't over yet. Kenny Anderson- I'll take them bones.

Devin Brown - He seems like another Spurs gem waiting to happen. My guess is that he will spend the year on the IR improving his game, like SJax did. Everyone recognizes this guy will be a player in the NBA. He may not be a star, but he might come in handy when injury strikes.

If we retain SJacks, then we will have more talent on this team than any other Spurs teams ever.

[Ghost Writer]

Oh, no.

If we traded useless Smitty, we might've beaten LA in the close series in 2002 and won again last year.

But wait... we would've missed out on Sacramento's 10th man off the bench this summer.

Come with a f'ing take, Marcus.


:cooldevil

[MannyIsGod]

Once again....

The spurs didn't win MY WAY, **** em

...is all i read when ghost posts.

[Solid D]

http://www.nba.com/media/act_hidayet_turkoglu.jpg http://www.nba.com/media/act_ron_mercer.jpg http://www.nba.com/media/act_robert_horry.jpg

would like to thank

http://www.nba.com/media/act_danny_ferry.jpg http://www.nba.com/media/act_steve_smith.jpg

for participating.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Ghost if we all pitch in and get Mercer and Turkoglu some headbands, will you shut the **** up for a few minutes?

AHF

[Ghost Writer]

I could think of better ways to spend $13 million.



:cooldevil

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What are you going to do Ghost, buy a Chris Whitney jersey for every day of the week?

AHF

[Ghost Writer]

We could use Whitney with Claxton out of town, simpleton.


:cooldevil

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Well according to you he's better than Tony, so where do you supposed the capped-out Spurs get the money?

AHF

[Ghost Writer]

:sleep

At the time I made that comment, you homers were crowning Parker the best PG in the NBA, while Whitney was putting up better numbers than he was!

:rolleyes








:cooldevil

[Marcus Bryant]

:lol

Ghost you are a clueless ****.

[MannyIsGod]

Just goes to prove the numbers you love to spout and fall back on don't tell the whole story of a player.

[Marcus Bryant]

I could think of better ways to spend $13 million.

As can I. But when one bothers to look at the reality of the situation and not flotsam and jetsam like "ballas" and "need black coaches" then one understands that there are limitations.

[Nikos]

"At the time I made that comment, you homers were crowning Parker the best PG in the NBA, while Whitney was putting up better numbers than he was!"

On what FUCKING TEAM GHOST? In what YEAR OF HIS NBA CAREER?

[timvp]

Ghost lost his two favorite players -- Jack and Speedy.

Let him mourn.

:pc2

[Marcus Bryant]

I didn't expect to stay the same or get worse this summer.

Not when he posts BS like that.

[timvp]

:lol

Yeah, well the Spurs only added Rasho, Hedo, Mercer and Horry. Four good players? Shoot me now.

:shootme

[Marcus Bryant]

Oh come on, timvp...."SSmith > Turkoglu"

[Solid D]

http://www.nba.com/media/act_hidayet_turkoglu.jpg http://www.nba.com/media/act_ron_mercer.jpg http://www.nba.com/media/act_robert_horry.jpg

Or

http://www.nba.com/media/act_danny_ferry.jpg http://www.nba.com/media/act_steve_smith.jpghttp://www.fritolay.com/consumer/funfoods/bottomnavimages/graphics/img1.gif

?