Another PATFO Special: Demaree carroll

[apalisoc_9]

13 Million dollars to sit on the bench
50 Million dollars to wave on the bench
Gave up Bertans to score 23 in a perfect revenge
oh how I miss timmy, manu, kawhi and the french.

[Rosewood]

Second game of the season.
We won the game.
You're right on all accounts.
You're still a raging retard.

[LakerHater]

Yeah I dnt understand some of the rotations.

[ElNono]

oh how I miss timmy, manu, kawhi and the french.

In that order

[TheGreatYacht]

He needs to start over Trey Lyles, who I have no idea what he does at an above average level. He was a benchwarmer in Denver, has some of the worst advanced stats I’ve ever seen, and is a more timid shooter than Fathead.

Carroll can be our PJ Tucker.

[Dverde]

Carroll is still not over himself. His clothes obviously take precedent. Work in progress.

[BatManu20]

I think DeMarre will play more as the season progresses and he gets more comfortable in the system tbh.

I will say that I wish his Contract was only 2 years and had a team option on the 2nd year.. but then he wouldn’t have signed here, so I digress. Thankfully that 3rd year is only partially guarantee at like $1.5M or something. Makes his contract easily tradable after this season or he could just be bought out after his 2nd year.

[DPG21920]

PATFO have to be given credit for a lot they do right which has been overwhelmingly good; but they have not done themselves many favors in fa. They struggle more than one would think for such an amazing franchise in that area.

Hard to blame them since their drafting/developing prowess has still allowed unparalleled success, but man, not doing themselves favors in the FA department. Legit weakness in the organization.

[J_Paco]

PATFO have to be given credit for a lot they do right which has been overwhelmingly good; but they have not done themselves many favors in fa. They struggle more than one would think for such an amazing franchise in that area.

Hard to blame them since their drafting/developing prowess has still allowed unparalleled success, but man, not doing themselves favors in the FA department. Legit weakness in the organization.

The guy they really coveted bailed, so can't knock them too bad for the Lyles pickup.

Also, did it ever occur to the numbskulls on here that Carroll is older and has a lot of tread on his tires while Lyles is young, fresher and can use minutes early in the season? I'd be surprised to see Lyles continue to play the starting PF all season, especially if he can't turnaround his woeful outside shooting.

The loss of Davis was collateral damage attempting to acquire Morris, obviously if they could have done it over again they would retained him. No, let's instead complain that he played well (great for Davis & I hope he keeps it up) in a losing effort.

[benefactor]

OP is a faggot twice decorated

[SpurPadre]

The guy they really coveted bailed, so can't knock them too bad for the Lyles pickup.

Also, did it ever occur to the numbskulls on here that Carroll is older and has a lot of tread on his tires while Lyles is young, fresher and can use minutes early in the season? I'd be surprised to see Lyles continue to play the back up PF all season, especially if he can't turnaround his woeful outside shooting.

It really isn't stupid to wonder why your one major offseason pickup isn't sniffing any minutes.

[J_Paco]

It really isn't stupid to wonder why your one major offseason pickup isn't sniffing any minutes.

He is older, Lyles is younger. Need to see if Lyles can stick in the rotation, Carroll is a known commodity and may need time to "rev up" for playoffs (ala Horry).

Also, Pop likes to play "mad scientist" with his personnel and rotation early in the season. Serious question, are y'all actually aware of the M.O. of the coach of the Spurs?


Cause it seems to me y'all waste a lot of time bitching and moaning about shit he has done for nearly 25 years.....

[SpurPadre]

He is older, Lyles is younger. Need to see if Lyles can stick in the rotation, Carroll is a known commodity and may need time to "rev up" for playoffs (ala Horry).

Also, Pop likes to play "mad scientist" with his personnel and rotation early in the season. Serious question, are y'all actually aware of the M.O. of the coach of the Spurs?


Cause it seems to me y'all waste a lot of time bitching and moaning about shit he has done for nearly 25 years.....

I see your point but it's also reasonable to worry about how good an acquisition Carroll was, tbh. He could be washed up for all we know. When we see Morris and Bertans going off on us for back to back games while Carroll is towel waiving, it's understandable to be annoyed by that. 2-0 is great and all but we're looking long term. I hope Carroll isn't washed up but if he's to get acclimated into this system, he needs to play soon.

[leo07251413]

It's just the second game of the season and you can at least try to spell his name right smh.

[SpurPadre]

It's just the second game of the season and you can at least try to spell his name right smh.

Pop might not know either, tbh.

[cd021]

Carroll not playing is downright crazy, he was good last season. He is better than Beli and certainly better than Lyle's in the role of stretch 4.

[cd021]

He is older, Lyles is younger. Need to see if Lyles can stick in the rotation, Carroll is a known commodity and may need time to "rev up" for playoffs (ala Horry).

Also, Pop likes to play "mad scientist" with his personnel and rotation early in the season. Serious question, are y'all actually aware of the M.O. of the coach of the Spurs?


Cause it seems to me y'all waste a lot of time bitching and moaning about shit he has done for nearly 25 years.....

-There is a difference between revving up and not turning on the car to begin with. Pop not playing a healthy Carroll is just odd. He needs to get acclimated to the system too and is far more likely to stick in the rotation than Lyles. He can defend and shoot, also has an ability to draw fouls too. That's pretty valuable on this team.

-Pop playing mad scientist is one thing but not playing a clear rotation player for the first two games is just weird, I can't think of a time he's done that before. Meanwhile Lyles got a later start with the system and is actually starting. Carroll is clearly better than him.

[Pavlov]

OP needs to calm down.

[Dancelot]

I’m almost wondering if he has some sort of injury so pop is holding him out

[RC_Drunkford]

Carroll looked bad in preseason. Like not worth more than the minimum bad. Then again it's not surprising that PATFO is overpaying old vets. That's what they always do, they are still paying Pau Gasol 5.2 million this year.

[objective]

Wasn't too happy with Carroll when I went back to watch the Nets games on my DVR and he was basically trash on defense. Getting blown by, not affecting shots. If his advanced defensive stats weren't terrible it was a fluke of guys just missing unbothered shots. Fashionable Cunningham.

Had shot under 35% 2 of past 3 seasons, and was a giant failure when Toronto depended on him to be a player.

Surprised that Pop isn't even playing him, not surprised that he wouldn't be good enough to play. But not being deserving of minutes doesn't affect if Pop gives a player minutes anyway.

[cd021]

Wasn't too happy with Carroll when I went back to watch the Nets games on my DVR and he was basically trash on defense. Getting blown by, not affecting shots. If his advanced defensive stats weren't terrible it was a fluke of guys just missing unbothered shots. Fashionable Cunningham.

Had shot under 35% 2 of past 3 seasons, and was a giant failure when Toronto depended on him to be a player.

Surprised that Pop isn't even playing him, not surprised that he wouldn't be good enough to play. But not being deserving of minutes doesn't affect if Pop gives a player minutes anyway.

From Atlanta, on, he's shot 36.5% from 3 on a increasingly high volume- last season he and Forbes shot them at the same rate per minute.

He's far better than Cunningham defensively though is probably only about slightly better than average on that end.

At worst, he's better than Beli considering that he can hold his own on D, space the floor (though not as well but almost as aggressively) and also draw fouls despite having limited touches.

[cd021]

Carroll looked bad in preseason. Like not worth more than the minimum bad. Then again it's not surprising that PATFO is overpaying old vets. That's what they always do, they are still paying Pau Gasol 5.2 million this year.

He looked fine in the games I watched, he's not that old, he's barely 33 and by the time the guaranteed portion of his 3 year deal is up he'll only be 34 and younger than Aldridge now.

It's not like he suddenly become washed just playing 18 minutes a game over the next couple of seasons.

[GusT15]

Carroll looked bad in preseason. Like not worth more than the minimum bad. Then again it's not surprising that PATFO is overpaying old vets. That's what they always do, they are still paying Pau Gasol 5.2 million this year.

It could be worse tbh...

Lakers are paying Luol Deng $5 million this year...
And $5 million next year...
And $5 million in 2021-22...

http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/I4Jmrcjnr8Zfq/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[RC_Drunkford]

He looked fine in the games I watched, he's not that old, he's barely 33 and by the time the guaranteed portion of his 3 year deal is up he'll only be 34 and younger than Aldridge now.

It's not like he suddenly become washed just playing 18 minutes a game over the next couple of seasons.

I mean it could be that he was just coasting. I'd like to see him out there in real games too


It could be worse tbh...

Lakers are paying Luol Deng $5 million this year...
And $5 million next year...
And $5 million in 2021


One of the worst FOs of the league shouldn't be the measuring stick tbh

[GusT15]

One of the worst FOs of the league shouldn't be the measuring stick tbh

I dunno man,the way you've been shitting on PATFO on your posts lately,i figured they must be as bad as the Lakers,the Magic,the Knicks etc...

You know damn well i'll critisize them for every wrong move they do as well,but i want them to turn things around.I have faith that they are gonna turn things around.

As for the issue at hand,i honestly believe Carroll will find playing time during the season and that he's not a corpse like Cunningham and Pondexter.

[mo7888]

I look at Carroll, Lyles, Belli, and patty as pieces that can be packaged in some form to acquire more of an impact player after their contracts become trade eligible.

[Maddog]

He needs to start over Trey Lyles, who I have no idea what he does at an above average level. He was a benchwarmer in Denver, has some of the worst advanced stats I’ve ever seen, and is a more timid shooter than Fathead.

Carroll can be our PJ Tucker.

Carroll looked really bad in pre season.at age 33
Lyle's is 23 and 23 minutes/game 9 rebounds a game.

[Dverde]

I look at Carroll, Lyles, Belli, and patty as pieces that can be packaged in some form to acquire more of an impact player after their contracts become trade eligible.

Patty ain’t getting traded.

[wildcardX]

He is older, Lyles is younger. Need to see if Lyles can stick in the rotation, Carroll is a known commodity and may need time to "rev up" for playoffs (ala Horry).

Also, Pop likes to play "mad scientist" with his personnel and rotation early in the season. Serious question, are y'all actually aware of the M.O. of the coach of the Spurs?

^This IMO.
Have to see if Lyles will be of use to them and start having him play the way they want him to. They already know what they have in Carroll, plus he is probably insurance when someone like Gay has nagging injuries or just needs to rest. Although I would like to see some minutes from Carroll(Walker too) since he was just signed or he will look like a waste of a signing when they could have just gone after Morris from the start.


Cause it seems to me y'all waste a lot of time bitching and moaning about shit he has done for nearly 25 years.....

[timvp]

Spurs fans whine when Pop plays veterans.

Spurs fans whine when Pop doesn't play veterans.

You would think Pop going with a player in Lyles who is exactly the same age as Murray in the starting lineup would hurt the "Pop believes in military-style pecking order and only plays old guys who have gotten over themselves" narrative but somehow it's ignored.

Weird, tbh.


Long season. Gay isn't going to play 82 games. Carroll's time will come. Could be starting by the end of the season.

The "he was terrible in preseason" narrative is pretty strange, too. He wasn't great but he had his moments. Played exactly how one would expect DeMarre Carroll to play.

[ZeusWillJudge]

13 Million dollars to sit on the bench


Where did you get 13 Million? He's getting 7M this season, and has 15M guaranteed over three years.

But of the 7M he's getting paid, only 3M is for sitting on the bench. The other 4M is for his fashion sense.

[DPG21920]

Spurs fans whine when Pop plays veterans.

Spurs fans whine when Pop doesn't play veterans.

You would think Pop going with a player in Lyles who is exactly the same age as Murray in the starting lineup would hurt the "Pop believes in military-style pecking order and only plays old guys who have gotten over themselves" narrative but somehow it's ignored.

Weird, tbh.


Long season. Gay isn't going to play 82 games. Carroll's time will come. Could be starting by the end of the season.

The "he was terrible in preseason" narrative is pretty strange, too. He wasn't great but he had his moments. Played exactly how one would expect DeMarre Carroll to play.

I don’t know about that tbh...the most consistent complaints about Pop is that he plays Beli/Mills over higher upside guys like White/Lonnie. You see other things sprinkled in, but rarely do people complain about vets minutes.

The context of this isn’t about the minutes; it’s about wasted money in FA with a low ceiling player that probably shouldn’t crack the rotation. Say what you will about the preseason, but unlike Rudy, Carroll not only looks really slow/old, but he hasn’t proven that he can add the value that Rudy can playing with what appears to be zapped athleticism

Forget his game; he physically looks pretty slow and old and Rudy does too and I don’t know if it’s just preseason. We will see.

[timvp]

but rarely do people complain about vets minutes.

https://i.imgur.com/WKOlNKb.jpg


Carroll not only looks really slow/old

IMO, that's a retroactive talking point to explain his DNP-CDs. Carroll looked like how I expected him to look in preseason. Maybe he looked different if you haven't watched him since his Hawks days but he looks the same as he did with the Nets.

Maybe it'll be a bad signing but I don't see why narratives should be changing when he hasn't even played a minute yet. Unless Gay is going to play 82 games, Carroll's chance will come and we'll get a better idea of how much he has left in the tank.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Maybe it'll be a bad signing but I don't see why narratives should be changing when he hasn't even played a minute yet.


Aren't you at least a little bit surprised that he hasn't played a minute yet?

It's always possible that there's a little bit of an injury or something that we don't know about. But Mills and Beli are known quantities. You would think he'd want to get eyes on Carroll at regular season speed, to see what he's got. And I can't help it - I look at Belinelli on the floor and I think, "How much worse could it get?"

Carroll isn't some rookie that doesn't know which end of the court is which, and his career 3P% is just about on par with Beli. He's almost exactly the same age, so it's not like he's older and slower. And he pulls down just about twice as many rebounds as Beli. So what could possibly be the downside to at least putting him in to evaluate?

[timvp]

Aren't you at least a little bit surprised that he hasn't played a minute yet?

I mean ... not really, tbh.

As I wrote:


The Spurs guaranteed DeMarre Carroll $15 million over the next couple seasons in order to acquire his services. Interestingly, though, it’s not obvious where his minutes will come from. In the preseason, Gay was the backup power forward and Belinelli was the backup small forward. Trey Lyles was getting minutes at PF and Lonnie Walker IV was getting minutes at SF. Where exactly are Carroll’s minutes going to come from?


https://www.spurstalk.com/preview-predictions-san-antonio-spurs-2019-2020/


I think Carroll will eventually play. But coming out of preseason, there was no clear road for him to get immediate minutes. He's like the fourth string SF and fourth string PF right now.

He'll get his chance and if he can shoot decently and defends with energy, he should be able to carve out some sort of role. We'll see.

[cd021]

I mean ... not really, tbh.

As I wrote:



I think Carroll will eventually play. But coming out of preseason, there was no clear road for him to get immediate minutes. He's like the fourth string SF and fourth string PF right now.

He'll get his chance and if he can shoot decently and defends with energy, he should be able to carve out some sort of role. We'll see.


I always though his role was fairly obvious as the starting or backup 4; given his high volume 3pt shooting and defensive reputation, I thought that Pop would start him with Aldridge, DDR, Forbes and Murray which would have the duel effect of hopefully keeping Gay healthy and beefing up the bench with Gay playing with Poeltl, Beli, White and Mills.

What none of us expected was for Lyles to start, let alone for him to be a rotation player. (though Pop likes to mix and match and get players minutes early in the year). Pop could've given him some of Beli's minutes; something like Beli plays the first half backup SF minutes and Carroll playing the second half backup SF minutes, he's done it before with Cojo and Mills. Carroll getting health DNP's is just weird to me, even with Lyles getting minutes.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I mean ... not really, tbh.

As I wrote:

I think Carroll will eventually play. But coming out of preseason, there was no clear road for him to get immediate minutes. He's like the fourth string SF and fourth string PF right now.

He'll get his chance and if he can shoot decently and defends with energy, he should be able to carve out some sort of role. We'll see.


Oh, I know he'll eventually play - he's not going to finish the year with zero minutes. I was just surprised Pop didn't at least have a look. I guess I'm just so tired of Marco that I'm hoping for anything that looks better.

I know you know, but he's played most of his career minutes at SF, not PF. If he's being looked at as the 4th PF, I guess it makes sense. I'd like to see him competing for some of Beli's minutes. I don't know if you noticed, but last year he had the worst ORtg AND the worst DRtg (tied) on the team, out of anyone who got regular minutes. I know it's only two game this year, but it's much, much worse. I think the guy is an albatross, and as long as he's getting important minutes, this team is going to lose unnecessary games, or be forced to play the starters too much in order to pull out narrow victories.

The big thing to me is that Pop knows exactly who/what Beli is on this team. I would have thought he would go out of his way to get Carroll in to see how he fits. But I guess if he's really going to be spending all his time as the fourth PF, there's not much reason.




I always though his role was fairly obvious as the starting or backup 4

Well I guess I'm the only one who didn't get the memo. Like I said, he's played a lot more of his career at SF than at PF.

[Seventyniner]

Carroll might be just the backup plan in case the Lyles experiment doesn't work.

[cd021]

Well I guess I'm the only one who didn't get the memo. Like I said, he's played a lot more of his career at SF than at PF.



The last two seasons, he played 75% of his minutes at PF, even some at center. Its similar to Gay, big 3's tend to slide up later in their career's. Doesn't make a lot of sense for PATFO to have signed him to backup DDR when, max, that's like 16 mpg and Beli already was the backup 3. At the 4, there's minutes available- at least before Pop started playing Lyles.

[RC_Drunkford]

The real surprise is that he was signed for 6.5 million over 3 years (3rd year partially guaranteed) and doesn't play. If they wanted a 3rd stringer, they should've signed somebody for vet min on a one-year deal

[FkLA]

WTF is going on with Pop and Carroll? It's starting to get weird. He saw plenty of action in preseason so it's weird he's getting DNP'd. He can't be that washed, he was a pretty big contributor for the Nets just last year.

[Spurtacular]

oh how I miss timmy, manu, kawhi and the french.

:lmao You think we forgot all your cry threads. :lmao

[Arcadian]

3-0, bitch.

[ZeusWillJudge]

The last two seasons, he played 75% of his minutes at PF, even some at center. Its similar to Gay, big 3's tend to slide up later in their career's. Doesn't make a lot of sense for PATFO to have signed him to backup DDR when, max, that's like 16 mpg and Beli already was the backup 3. At the 4, there's minutes available- at least before Pop started playing Lyles.


LOL. What we have here is a failure to communicate. It's exactly those 16 Belinelli minutes that I want replaced. I am so sick of his no-defending ass. I would have much rather seen Beli on the bench for a game, while Pop gave Carroll a look.
Sounds like no one else expected that experiment.

For the record, saying that he spent 75% of his minutes at the 4 in Brooklyn is suspect. I know how he's listed, that's not how they talked about him, and it's not what he was called in any articles I can remember. Even when the Spurs signed him, most of the articles talked about him as Brooklyn's small forward. The Nets had 1 player who was 6'1", and 11 players between 6'5" and 6'7". Do the math on roster spots, and you can see why Carroll at 6'8" was called a PF. He was a SF who played mostly like a SF on a perpetual small ball team that went 42-40 in the East.