Grades: Spurs vs. Wizards - Oct. 26, 2019

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-washington-wizards-october-26-2019/

tl;dr: Murray :tu, Pop :wtf

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

White being extremely passive is terrible for the second unit, they can't get anything going, can't get open shots and Poeltl is useless simply waiting around for offensive rebounds. Rudy doesn't seem to be in shape but he's the only one looking to make things happen with the bench.

[Mugen]

Thinking there might be some locker room stuff with Carrol. Looking at the highlights and Demarre is pretty much at the end of the bench, not cheering/clapping for his teammates.

Probably not thrilled with Pop blanking his minutes in favor of other losers on the team, wonder if his attitude is partly why he's not getting any time.

Can't believe the Spurs wasted money on somebody that Pop doesn't even plan on playing :lol

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Thinking there might be some locker room stuff with Carrol. Looking at the highlights and Demarre is pretty much at the end of the bench, not cheering/clapping for his teammates.

Probably not thrilled with Pop blanking his minutes in favor of other losers on the team, wonder if his attitude is partly why he's not getting any time.

Can't believe the Spurs wasted money on somebody that Pop doesn't even plan on playing :lol

Carroll was always going to be a bad signing, he’s really washed up

[FlAVaK]

Again, highlight video embedded in the article has the notification "not available"...


https://youtu.be/R8gnnB0Vy7M

[timvp]

Again, highlight video embedded in the article has the notification "not available"...


https://youtu.be/R8gnnB0Vy7M

Videos are working for me. If you're not in the US, maybe they are blocked in your country. Don't know.

Are they working for everyone else?

[Beartrucci]

Videos are working for me. If you're not in the US, maybe they are blocked in your country. Don't know.

Are they working for everyone else?

Yep working

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Videos are working for me. If you're not in the US, maybe they are blocked in your country. Don't know.

Are they working for everyone else?

Working for me from Canada

[jiggy_55]

Videos are working for me. If you're not in the US, maybe they are blocked in your country. Don't know.

Are they working for everyone else?

Outside of US and the video works for me.

[timvp]

Yep working


Working for me from Canada


Outside of US and the video works for me.

Thanks for the info :tu

[AussieFanKurt]

Demar looks like he doesn't give a fuck and even when he's making big plays still doesn't look like he gives two shits..

Why is Mills out there to defensively close a game???

[spurraider21]

works for me

that guy just needs to get with the program and move to the US

[BillMc]

Videos are working for me. If you're not in the US, maybe they are blocked in your country. Don't know.

Are they working for everyone else?
They work for me and I'm in Ukraine.

[cd021]

They work for me and I'm in Ukraine.

You weren't asked to investigate for something in return, were you? :lol

[BillMc]

You weren't asked to investigate for something in return, were you? :lol
:clap:lol

That's between me and the President, friend.

[cd021]

-Its early, but Marco really shouldn't be playing over Carroll that's just silly tbh.

-I'm still really skeptical of Lyles. He shows flashes but if he isn't even taking 3's why is he really out there? Rebounding and passing is all well and good but if he can't fill the role that is needed from him on offense then it doesn't seem viable long term.

- Murray looked like a fucking stud on offense, really aggressive on D- almost to a fault. He did leave Isiah Thomas open to contest at the rim on the final play but that worked out. He also had a great help block on a Beal post up. He's still a little jumpy on that end but it gets results.

[monty4329]

We almost lost to Washington. That's all the grades in just 5 words.

I think the excitement for Murray is kind of obfuscating how bad the team is playing. Defense is extremely porous, and offense is relying too much on penetrations without kicking the ball out for a corner 3, and not much more than back to the basket ISO.

At least Forbes shoots some threes. But there is zero ball movement. Clearly Beli and Mills do not enter Pop rotation plans, which makes me think we'll never see ball movement with this team, instead the plan seem to be more running after a defensive rebound (I like it) or find a back to the basket mid-range decent shot (and lose games)

Hope something in the offensive flow and movement will improve or we'll end up watching LW jumping all around while basically playing for the opposing team.

Why was Murray out the last 5 minutes?

DDR even more annoying than last season, I thought it was impossible but he managed to surprise me.

BTW Hachimura is a hell of a rookie. And Bertans fuck-you threes were painful to watch.

[tbdog]

It's early in the season and you take your wins. Plenty of teams can lose games to bad teams early in the season, see Clippers and Bucks today. We are getting leads early, losing them, then pulling out wins down the stretch. You take that and work on that middle part.

Carroll not playing is odd. Lyles looking good in the starting 5. We are playing our first quarter fairly well. Second unit is a bit hit and miss. That's on White. DD has had two excellent 4th quarters.

[r0drig0lac]

Mills and Marco together are so wrong, and being so obvious makes the whole situation even more annoying.

[objective]

Lyles is giving me PF Roger Mason vibes, without the first year crunch-time shots. Fringe who somehow falls into starts and rotation minutes on the Spurs but will be back to a fringe NBA player like he merits after he moves on.

...

Even if keeping Murray and White separate was defensible, it would only make sense by maxing them out the full 48 combined minutes in competitive games. Squeezing in time where it's the Patty Mills Show is unpleasant to watch.

[mudyez]

Timvp, somehow you forgot about Davis Bertans' grade.

[CGD]

Thinking there might be some locker room stuff with Carrol. Looking at the highlights and Demarre is pretty much at the end of the bench, not cheering/clapping for his teammates.

Probably not thrilled with Pop blanking his minutes in favor of other losers on the team, wonder if his attitude is partly why he's not getting any time.

Can't believe the Spurs wasted money on somebody that Pop doesn't even plan on playing :lol

Feels like Pop is experimenting with Lyles. If Lyles flops then he’ll turn to DC

[RC_Drunkford]

the main issue of this team right now are Pop's rotations. The Mills/Forbes back court has a -50.3 net rating for example

[ceperez]

Lyles is giving me PF Roger Mason vibes, without the first year crunch-time shots. Fringe who somehow falls into starts and rotation minutes on the Spurs but will be back to a fringe NBA player like he merits after he moves on.

...

Even if keeping Murray and White separate was defensible, it would only make sense by maxing them out the full 48 combined minutes in competitive games. Squeezing in time where it's the Patty Mills Show is unpleasant to watch.

Let's compare Roger Mason with Trey Lyles.

Both have below average athleticism.

But Roger Mason was undersized for his position. Lyles is above average in size for a 4 in today's NBA.

Roger Mason had below average handles for his position. Lyles has above average handles for a 4 in today's NBA.

The reason we see Lyles on the court he his like the NFL wide receiver that knows his routes as to compared to one who doesn't (maybe that's Carroll).

[KobesAchilles]

the main issue of this team right now are Pop's rotations. The Mills/Forbes back court has a -50.3 net rating for example

Reporter: Pop, Dame and CJ went a combined 25/30 for 75 points. What did you see from your backcourt to try and put a stop to their hot hand?

:pop: I thought Patty and Bryn did a tremendous job tonight. They really competed on defense. And hey, Dame and CJ are great players and they just made shots. It’s what great players do.

[tbdog]

Let's compare Roger Mason with Trey Lyles.

Both have below average athleticism.

But Roger Mason was undersized for his position. Lyles is above average in size for a 4 in today's NBA.

Roger Mason had below average handles for his position. Lyles has above average handles for a 4 in today's NBA.

The reason we see Lyles on the court he his like the NFL wide receiver that knows his routes as to compared to one who doesn't (maybe that's Carroll).

How is Lyle's undersized for his position for today's game? That makes no sense.

[Cryptic Parable]

Consider doing 10, 20, 30 & 40 games teams grades overall assessments. That’s half the season and you’ll have a very good idea about the team’s personality overall. I’d be very interested in reading those incremental squad grades over 10 games spans.

[offset formation]

We almost lost to Washington. That's all the grades in just 5 words.

I think the excitement for Murray is kind of obfuscating how bad the team is playing. Defense is extremely porous, and offense is relying too much on penetrations without kicking the ball out for a corner 3, and not much more than back to the basket ISO.

At least Forbes shoots some threes. But there is zero ball movement. Clearly Beli and Mills do not enter Pop rotation plans, which makes me think we'll never see ball movement with this team, instead the plan seem to be more running after a defensive rebound (I like it) or find a back to the basket mid-range decent shot (and lose games)

Hope something in the offensive flow and movement will improve or we'll end up watching LW jumping all around while basically playing for the opposing team.

Why was Murray out the last 5 minutes?

DDR even more annoying than last season, I thought it was impossible but he managed to surprise me.

BTW Hachimura is a hell of a rookie. And Bertans fuck-you threes were painful to watch.

Actually, we normally lose revenge games vs former Spurs. The fact that he went off and we still won is impressive.

Our defense remains atrocious though.

Gonna come back to bite us soon.

The League is getting really good across the board, in so far as any team seems to have the ability to upset any of the top teams on a great shooting night nowadays.

[cjw]

Timvp, somehow you forgot about Davis Bertans' grade.

That’s what I was thinking. Without Bertans turning into a supernova out there, Washington falls out of this game much earlier.

I’m astounded, though, that PATFO was thought he should be the expendable guy when Beli is still on the roster.

[John B]

Thanks for the grades. Obviously they haven’t adjusted to each other and that’s with the shorter pre-season. Will take the win. A lot of positive when they play well. It’s a matter of keeping the lead. I’m happy to see Lonnie getting some plays, especially with White/Murray in there. Mills/Beli is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

[r0drig0lac]

That’s what I was thinking. Without Bertans turning into a supernova out there, Washington falls out of this game much earlier.

I’m astounded, though, that PATFO was thought he should be the expendable guy when Beli is still on the roster.

really?

[dbestpro]

That’s what I was thinking. Without Bertans turning into a supernova out there, Washington falls out of this game much earlier.

I’m astounded, though, that PATFO was thought he should be the expendable guy when Beli is still on the roster.

Pop did not like Bertan's cause he wanted Bertan's to play like someone else. When Davis gets to play to his strengths he is really good. This goes back to Pop trying to get players to be better with their weaknesses rather than putting them in position to thrive with their strengths.

[cjw]

Pop did not like Bertan's cause he wanted Bertan's to play like someone else. When Davis gets to play to his strengths he is really good. This goes back to Pop trying to get players to be better with their weaknesses rather than putting them in position to thrive with their strengths.

Or was Washington demanding an asset to be included with Beli because they know how useless he is?

Really frustrating because we know how useful Bertans could be when at his best.

[sasaint]

Pop did not like Bertan's cause he wanted Bertan's to play like someone else. When Davis gets to play to his strengths he is really good. This goes back to Pop trying to get players to be better with their weaknesses rather than putting them in position to thrive with their strengths.

Amen, brother. Preach.

[jjktkk]

Mills and Marco together are so wrong, and being so obvious makes the whole situation even more annoying.

I'm praying that Pop playing Walker in the 4th will be start of him taking away Marco's minutes and keeping him on the bench.

[BackHome]

My thoughts after 2 games

1. Pop sucks at this stage of his career
2. Lyles is way overrated in this forum
3. Mills and Belli are done as players
4. Pop has ruined White confidence
5. Pop Will ruin Walker confidence

[BackHome]

Let's compare Roger Mason with Trey Lyles.

Both have below average athleticism.

But Roger Mason was undersized for his position. Lyles is above average in size for a 4 in today's NBA.

Roger Mason had below average handles for his position. Lyles has above average handles for a 4 in today's NBA.

The reason we see Lyles on the court he his like the NFL wide receiver that knows his routes as to compared to one who doesn't (maybe that's Carroll).

Except Lyles can’t shoot which is like a fast receiver who can’t catch the ball

[K...]

We haven't seen lyle at his best whereas we know bertans isn't consistent. If lyles can recover shooting and be a plus passer rebounder then he's far far more valuable. A big if , but bert is a known product so if it where a straight trade it might mAke sense but given the Morris scenario the spurs should be pleased to have a passable option with upside.

[Mr. Body]

If Bertans misses shots he's completely useless. Last night he hit shots.

[RC_Drunkford]

Pop plays his guys. That doesn't mean they are the better basketball players. They are just his guys. Like Beli and Patty. Danny Green and Bertans for example were never his guys, although they are way better basketball players on better contracts.

B-b-b-but Pop treats every player the same

[superbigtime]

Demar looks like he doesn't give a fuck and even when he's making big plays still doesn't look like he gives two shits..

Why is Mills out there to defensively close a game???

body language between him and Pop seems pretty negative. they can be 6 inches away and not look at each other

[r0drig0lac]

Curry and Dray being exposed, even two years late, is still something great to watch

[TD 21]

I'm surprised by Lyles over Carroll in general, but it makes sense in this context . . .

- They prefer to start traditional and have (mercifully) seemingly conceded that Poeltl is just not tenable.
- They're determined to make Gay the permanent 6th man.
- They didn't need a big wing defender against the Knicks/Wizards.
- Considering his long injury history, Carroll is an old 33. It's best to lean on him in matchups they need him for than make him an every game player.
- Might as well audition Lyles now before looking to swing a trade for a starting caliber "PF". He has virtually no chance to become a fixture if he continues to be a big man version of fathead instead of the legit stretch four they need (typical Spur; inexplicably eschewing the 3 and being enabled), though.

As for the rest of this team, this is what we're going to continue to see. Sure, they'll be 1-2 stretches where they play near capacity and vice versa, but generally speaking, it'll be a struggle no matter the opponent or situation. That's what happens when your best players are neutral and minus types and your roster is so ill-fitting that you can't play your 5 best together.

[K...]

Pop plays his guys. That doesn't mean they are the better basketball players. They are just his guys. Like Beli and Patty. Danny Green and Bertans for example were never his guys, although they are way better basketball players on better contracts.

B-b-b-but Pop treats every player the same

Danny, signed twice from the d league is not pops guy? Better examples are Jonathan Simmons and Dedmon, sjax part two, splitter pre 2014, Jackie Butler, scola, nando, etc

[Spur|n|Austin]

So in a nutshell, fortunate to be 2-0 -- I'll take it!

[RC_Drunkford]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1188515484448243713?s=21

[RC_Drunkford]

Danny, signed twice from the d league is not pops guy? Better examples are Jonathan Simmons and Dedmon, sjax part two, splitter pre 2014, Jackie Butler, scola, nando, etc

Danny was Pop's whipping boy. Pop has been trying to trade him before that. Danny for Avery Bradley was one rumor

[Jsmoothexpress]

I wonder if Pop is doing the opposite with Derozan this year than what he did last year. Last year he was looked to get others involved early and assert hisself as well. Now it looks like Pop May be using him to be a threat on the court but not really become that threat until the fourth quarter. He seems to be a step ahead of everyone in the fourth because he isn’t gassed by that time. Could be wrong but just my theory.

[ZeusWillJudge]

If Bertans misses shots he's completely useless. Last night he hit shots.

There's a lot of truth to that. I don't know about completely useless, but his value falls pretty low.

But last night I think the Spurs were lucky that the Wiz didn't give him the ball on that last play. Poor coaching if you ask me. You've got a guy with a hot hand who's motivated to show up the team that let go of him, you hand him the rock and let him shoot a 3. I like their chance of winning that way a lot better than having to make the deuce, and then win in O/T.

[dbestpro]

My thoughts after 2 games

1. Pop sucks at this stage of his career
2. Lyles is way overrated in this forum
3. Mills and Belli are done as players
4. Pop has ruined White confidence
5. Pop Will ruin Walker confidence

5 for 5. Nice percentage.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'm hopeful that Walker starts getting more playing time. White and Murray should be on the floor together as well. They're both too valuable to the teams success to merely share minutes. Playing alongside a dynamic player like Murray would probably be a boost to White's overall play. He's a complementary piece, and so to be most effective he probably needs to be supporting a focal point player. Belli and Mills need to be the guys giving up minutes, IMO.

Thanks for the grades, Timvp!

[exstatic]

I'm hopeful that Walker starts getting more playing time. White and Murray should be on the floor together as well. They're both too valuable to the teams success to merely share minutes. Playing alongside a dynamic player like Murray would probably be a boost to White's overall play. He's a complementary piece, and so to be most effective he probably needs to be supporting a focal point player. Belli and Mills need to be the guys giving up minutes, IMO.

Thanks for the grades, Timvp!

Now that DJ's minutes restriction is more or less clearly defined (10 games at this rate of ~24 minutes, then a bump up of 6 more minutes) I think that when DJ bumps up to 30, you'll see them overlap. Right now, DJ and White are the only two plus guard defenders on the team, and Pop probably wants at least one of them on the floor at all times.

[sasaint]

Now that DJ's minutes restriction is more or less clearly defined (10 games at this rate of ~24 minutes, then a bump up of 6 more minutes) I think that when DJ bumps up to 30, you'll see them overlap. Right now, DJ and White are the only two plus guard defenders on the team, and Pop probably wants at least one of them on the floor at all times.

But Murray’s minutes are only half of the equation. Without any reason for minutes restriction, White is averaging fewer minutes (21) than Dijon (24). If Pop chose to give Derrick more minutes, they could easily share 5-6 minutes of floor time even with Dijon’s restriction.

[Fireball]

But Murray’s minutes are only half of the equation. Without any reason for minutes restriction, White is averaging fewer minutes (21) than Dijon (24). If Pop chose to give Derrick more minutes, they could easily share 5-6 minutes of floor time even with Dijon’s restriction.

White needs to shoot threes ... those two makes against the wizards were a step in the right direction.

[sasaint]

White needs to shoot threes ... those two makes against the wizards were a step in the right direction.

Agreed. His timidity in every facet of the game this season is a head-scratcher.

[paperboy77]

body language between him and Pop seems pretty negative. they can be 6 inches away and not look at each other

That's two ugly mofo's!

[FkLA]

Forget threes right now. White needs to shoot midrangers. That was a huge weapon for him last year that he has completely abandoned. The threes can follow after but right now he needs to get his confidence back on those midrangers. He's so one dimensional on offense atm. The only thing he's doing is driving.