Film Room: Why Pop Called Lonnie Walker IV "Noncompetitive"

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/lonnie-walker-iv-noncompetitive-clippers-gregg-popovich-right/

Personally, I'm excited. This tells me Pop sees something in Walker and he's trying to get it out of him. If Pop just wanted a defender today who wouldn't make many mistakes, he could remove DeMarre Carroll from the shrink wrap. But he's trying to get greatness out of Walker :tu

[ElNono]

He’s trying to get a trade demand and he’s going to get it, tbh

[playblair]

this is 2019 hard love doesnt work anymore.........pop is going to alienate our best young player again...........

[Mugen]

Great write-up.

Trade him tbh.

[exstatic]

this is 2019 hard love doesnt work anymore.........pop is going to alienate our best young player again...........

Lonnie's had nothing but tough love from his parents his whole life. This is nothing new or shocking to him.

[TDomination]

Gotta say Timvp, thats probably the best breakdown i've seen on this site as far as understanding why Pop is mad about something. Great stuff.

If you are correct that Walker was there to pick up Kawhi and he kept allowing others to do it, I can understand Pop saying what he said.

[timvp]

Lonnie's had nothing but tough love from his parents his whole life. This is nothing new or shocking to him.

Yeah, in a related point, Pop only goes hard at players he knows can handle it. He could scream at Duncan and Parker because Pop knew they wouldn't crumble. Pop also knows he has to be gentle with more delicate personalities like Aldridge, DeRozan, etc.

[KobesAchilles]

Hmm nice write up OP. It seemed like Lonnie was legitimately scared of nephew... but then again getting him actual playing time before this game and having his confidence up and his role defined could’ve changed his mindset as well.

[drpill]

Excellent breakdown. I didn't see much of that during the game and was focused on Lonnie's few decent possessions and more obvious mistakes. I guess there was a lack of commitment there after all.

[TD 21]

Never fails. I knew his legion of followers in the cult he's built would spin this, replete with the cliché "Pop sees something in him". Like anyone with a brain doesn't. This is nothing more than a premediated attempt to give the genius credit if he becomes a star, so they can pretend he saw it before anyone and had a significant role in it.

What you don't get is, it doesn't even matter if he was right; it's tone deaf to this generation. This organization/city already doesn't appeal to superstar/star American millennials, so they can't afford to exacerbate it with things like this.

:lmao "helped mold some of the best defensive teams in history", as if it took a genius to wring that from Robinson, Duncan, Bowen, Scumbag, Green, etc.

[exstatic]

One thing I've noticed about Lonnie, a good thing potential wise, is that he has what I call 'cornerback hips'. In the NFL, you can have two guys the same height and weight, and with identical 40 times, and one can be a cornerback, while the other will not be anything other than a nickle back or a safety. An elite corner has the ability to open his hips while back pedaling, so the can quickly change direction and pick up his receiver. The same physical profile allows one to slip through and around screens in the NBA with minimal contact. It's really tough to pick off these guys cleanly. You know who else has this? Dejounte.

Lonnie can be an ELITE defender if he pulls his head out of his ass, and accepts and embraces the challenge, and I'm talking All NBA Defense teams in his future and maybe a DPOY.

[Mugen]

So when Pop buries him on the bench for the next 10 games, can we get a film room of him handing out towels to Beli?

[SAGirl]

So when Pop buries him on the bench for the next 10 games, can we get a film room of him handing out towels to Beli?
Was going to say, a film room can be filled up with others being non competitive as well, without getting called out. Maybe they need to get called out, as well.

[exstatic]

Never fails. I knew his legion of followers in the cult he's built would spin this, replete with the cliché "Pop sees something in him". Like anyone with a brain doesn't. This is nothing more than a premediated attempt to give the genius credit if he becomes a star, so they can pretend he saw it before anyone and had a significant role in it.

What you don't get is, it doesn't even matter if he was right; it's tone deaf to this generation. This organization/city already doesn't appeal to superstar/star American millennials, so they can't afford to exacerbate it with things like this.

:lmao "helped mold some of the best defensive teams in history", as if it took a genius to wring that from Robinson, Duncan, Bowen, Scumbag, Green, etc.

You're such a colossal douche, and scared little girl. Live your life in fear if you want, but stop telling other people to.

Here's the list:
Don Nelson 1335 0
Jerry Sloan 1221 0
George Karl 1175 0
Rick Adelman 1042 0

All of these guys won 1000+ NBA games, had All Star Talent, if not HOF talent, and never won a championship.

Now, this guy:
Greggory Popovich 1248 5

Five times to the top of the Mountain.

[r0drig0lac]

Yeah, in a related point, Pop only goes hard at players he knows can handle it. He could scream at Duncan and Parker because Pop knew they wouldn't crumble. Pop also knows he has to be gentle with more delicate personalities like Aldridge, DeRozan, etc.

that says a lot about them

[mo7888]

So when Pop buries him on the bench for the next 10 games, can we get a film room of him handing out towels to Beli?
I think he plays LW tonight and we see alot of defensive effort from him...

I hope my post ages well...

[TD 21]

You're such a colossal douche, and scared little girl. Live your life in fear if you want, but stop telling other people to.

Here's the list:
Don Nelson 1335 0
Jerry Sloan 1221 0
George Karl 1175 0
Rick Adelman 1042 0

All of these guys won 1000+ NBA games, had All Star Talent, if not HOF talent, and never won a championship.

Now, this guy:
Greggory Popovich 1248 5

Five times to the top of the Mountain.

:lmao One of the founding members of the cult predictably upset because his god was questioned.

Stop living your life pretending this is the Duncan era and this organization is shielded from the realities of today's landscape. If this organization wants to continue to be a caricature of itself, they're going to be in for a rude awakening (again) and stuck in neutral going forward. Apologists like you might be satisfied with that because of what happened 5-20 years ago, but I'm sure as hell not.

None of those guys lucked into coaching the talent the genius did.

[polandprzem]

Yeah, in a related point, Pop only goes hard at players he knows can handle it. He could scream at Duncan and Parker because Pop knew they wouldn't crumble. Pop also knows he has to be gentle with more delicate personalities like Aldridge, DeRozan, etc.

And he hit Kawhi few times and he /Leonard/ said thank you so much I'm gone

[exstatic]

I think he plays LW tonight and we see alot of defensive effort from him...

I hope my post ages well...

I was thinking the exact same thing. Pop gets mad, but rarely stays mad. Remember when he pulled DJ from the Portland game after the fumbled behind the back pass? He made him walk past him, arms folded, death stare, not one word. DJ was back in less than 2 minutes later.

[Seventyniner]

Never fails. I knew his legion of followers in the cult he's built would spin this, replete with the cliché "Pop sees something in him". Like anyone with a brain doesn't. This is nothing more than a premediated attempt to give the genius credit if he becomes a star, so they can pretend he saw it before anyone and had a significant role in it.

What you don't get is, it doesn't even matter if he was right; it's tone deaf to this generation. This organization/city already doesn't appeal to superstar/star American millennials, so they can't afford to exacerbate it with things like this.

:lmao "helped mold some of the best defensive teams in history", as if it took a genius to wring that from Robinson, Duncan, Bowen, Scumbag, Green, etc.

The fallacy here is taking what might be broadly true of a large population (this generation/millenials) and applying it to a single person.

Everybody is different. Pop thinks this is the best way to specifically get the best out of Lonnie Walker IV. That's it. If Pop was so out of tune, wouldn't he be giving this sort of treatment to everyone? I don't see him being this publicly harsh to Murray or White, for example.

[SpurPadre]

Yeah, in a related point, Pop only goes hard at players he knows can handle it. He could scream at Duncan and Parker because Pop knew they wouldn't crumble. Pop also knows he has to be gentle with more delicate personalities like Aldridge, DeRozan, etc.

He could also scream at Manu, too. Can't forget that.

[TD 21]

The fallacy here is taking what might be broadly true of a large population (this generation/millenials) and applying it to a single person.

Everybody is different. Pop thinks this is the best way to specifically get the best out of Lonnie Walker IV. That's it. If Pop was so out of tune, wouldn't he be giving this sort of treatment to everyone? I don't see him being this publicly harsh to Murray or White, for example.

The NBA is like a cliché high-school movie. Of course it's possible Walker is different (and right now, he might be, but they should be thinking ahead), but this organization just got burned in part for presuming as much with Scumbag, yet they've apparently failed to learn their lesson.

Pop is a senile caricature of himself, still thinks this is the Duncan era and he matters or that the next generation grew up with them as the model. A guy like Walker probably only really remembers the '14 championship. He probably looked up to Bryant, James, Wade, Durant, Curry, the Warriors, etc. growing up.

He'll take his shit now because he has to . . . but 5 years down the line, if he's become a star, things like this could be part of the reason why he doesn't want to spend his prime here. It's symtomatic of the archaic/militaristic culture.

[Joseph Kony]

i was pretty irritated with the comment but watching the breakdown timvp laid out and Pop was 100% correct. i dont agree with calling him out like that though, pretty shitty thing to do especially considering the kid hasnt gotten any burn really and then you throw him out to guard the best player in the nba? pretty dumb

[SpurPadre]

i was pretty irritated with the comment but watching the breakdown timvp laid out and Pop was 100% correct. i dont agree with calling him out like that though, pretty shitty thing to do especially considering the kid hasnt gotten any burn really and then you throw him out to guard the best player in the nba? pretty dumb

Pop understands that Millennials will absorb things much better when they see it on social media/online so when he called him out, it was with purpose to get him to see those clips and find it within himself to improve. Of course Pop has talked to him about it away from the media but to also do it in the media is a sure way for it to stay with a kid like Walker.

[acoelho1]

Pop has his methods to develop a player and you cant really question it given we’ve been one of the most successful franchises in any sport. Nevertheless, you would have to be blind not to see that Walker will be something special. He will be part of the rotation and no way Marco beats him out.

[Coach X]

Totally agree with Pop as the detailed article shows. I can see him taking advantage of the ocassion and willingly overreacting in front of the mics. Depending on today's Walker reaction before the game, he will have a chance to redeem himself or he'll be sent to the dog house. We shall see. Whatever it happens is the correct teaching decission.

Lonnie is smart. We will be fine. Hopefully he's playing some today and he plays well.

It's amazing how many young fans doesn't know a thing about Gregg Popovich. He's not Tom Izzo! :rolleyes

[mexicanjunior]

He’s trying to get a trade demand and he’s going to get it, tbh

This...

[Rosewood]

this is 2019 hard love doesnt work anymore.........pop is going to alienate our best young player again........... :lol how has Lonnie shown he's better than DJ, White or even Forbes?

[james evans]

Yeah, in a related point, Pop only goes hard at players he knows can handle it. He could scream at Duncan and Parker because Pop knew they wouldn't crumble. Pop also knows he has to be gentle with more delicate personalities like Aldridge, DeRozan, etc.
There’s a word for that. It’s called “favoritism “

[james evans]

As the great Wooden and Aurbach once said, there should be no coaching during the game. That’s what practices are for.

[Longlonglongtimelurk]

Great analysis, that’s what I come here for. As others have said Pop has been around guys like Lonnie for decades, he knows what he can and can’t say depending on the individual. If anything, I think it says a lot about what Pop thinks Lonnie can be, plus Lonnie must have thick skin in the mould of TP.. remember a few years ago when Pop came out after LMAs first season and conceded that he’d been using LMA wrongly, a rare admission of being at fault from Pop; my take was this was more Pop stroking LMAs fragile ego and I found it dissapointing that the whispers of LMAs preciousness were seemingly true. Clearly (I hope) not the same case with Lonnie. He seems like a guy that is comfortable in his own skin.

[joeyjfive]

LJ doing LJ things. Terrific breakdown. Really helped all of us see exactly what Pop was talking about.

[wildbill2u]

https://www.spurstalk.com/lonnie-walker-iv-noncompetitive-clippers-gregg-popovich-right/

Personally, I'm excited. This tells me Pop sees something in Walker and he's trying to get it out of him. If Pop just wanted a defender today who wouldn't make many mistakes, he could remove DeMarre Carroll from the shrink wrap. But he's trying to get greatness out of Walker :tu


I wrote in this space before the game that Pop should put Walker on Leonard as the designated fouler, just to get some experience in playing against one of the best in the game. As every basketball critic, writer and coach has said, he has all the tools--speed, jumping ability, lateral speed, etc. --to be a very very good defender in this league. Since Kwahi has regressed to shooting that extremely flat jumper that he showed when he came to the league, I even had dreams of Walker leaping vertically to block a shot or two of the superstar or , please God, a "DO Deflection." Wouldn't that have been something? :-) . From dreams back to the actual game plan for Walker.


He wouldn't be expected to stop Kwahi, just to work hard and harass him. He did fine at the start, but at some point he lost his heart and his direction. He even stopped checking Leonard down court in transition. At one point he left Leonard wide open in the corner to go help out under the basket on a fool's errand. Under some circumstances you might applaud him for help defense from the weak side, but when your assignment is to stick with Leonard, a reigning MVP, young man, you better be close enough to exchange spit all the time you are on the court.
Young players are hard for a coach to read. Some take a challenge and raise their game while some get their dobbers down when the littlest thing goes wrong. The thing is Coach Pop isn't known for cutting players slack if they sulk or get depressed. . We'll see if Walker has the right stuff to shake it off and come back at his next opportunity

[FkLA]

1 - Lou Williams is a professional scorer. He's beaten many great defenders off the dribble. It happens.
2 - Nephew is a beast with his back to the basket. He got to the middle more than once last night. I didn't see a lack of competitiveness on Lonnie's part either. To me it looks like he simply got caught overplaying Neph's signature right shoulder fadeaway. Again, I chalk it up to it happens.

3 - Pretty common for players to end up cross-matched in transition. Not seeing it.
4 - Looks to me like Lonnie was heading over to defend Neph. Forbes just got there first. Maybe he could've waved Bryn off but that's nitpicking, imo.
5 - This is one was really the only one that I thought was truly bad. He was in the corner three and started walking back casually after the made basket which led to DeRozan ending up on Nephew.


This is one of the rare times when I don't agree with your assessment, OP. Not enough to warrant that kind of public call out from Pop, imho. You want to motivate the kid to be great, you can rip into him all you want in house.

[Slippy]

Pop understands that Millennials will absorb things much better when they see it on social media/online so when he called him out, it was with purpose to get him to see those clips and find it within himself to improve. Of course Pop has talked to him about it away from the media but to also do it in the media is a sure way for it to stay with a kid like Walker.

Love it, old man pop going to realize? A Stuobborn mule at 70years of age whos probably clingling to the last bit patience he has left for Melaniels understands them? h

haha nice one.

[DPG21920]

So it would set a bad precedent for pop to “allow” a rookie to make mistakes but not for letting Beli coast 99% of the time and still close games?

Not talking talent with Beli but complete aloofness

[ZeusWillJudge]

Was going to say, a film room can be filled up with others being non competitive as well, without getting called out. Maybe they need to get called out, as well.


Yeah, I thought the story was that Pop treats everyone the same.

Regardless of what Pop was or wasn't trying to do with Lonnie last night, he pissed off a game with his horrible rotations. I guess he pissed off a chance at winning a game - there are no guarantees of a W. But Pop's rotations pretty much guaranteed the L.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Exactly.

[weebo]

So it would set a bad precedent for pop to “allow” a rookie to make mistakes but not for letting Beli coast 99% of the time and still close games?

Not talking talent with Beli but complete aloofness

Belineli will be at the end of the bench by the end of the season.

[spurraider21]

So it would set a bad precedent for pop to “allow” a rookie to make mistakes but not for letting Beli coast 99% of the time and still close games?

Not talking talent with Beli but complete aloofness
this tbh... beli's struggles are not just his physical ability. forbes is a good example of a guy who tries but just isn't good enough on that end. beli doesnt even try but pop still leaves him out there for 15-20 per game no problem.

[SpurPadre]

Yeah, I thought the story was that Pop treats everyone the same.

Regardless of what Pop was or wasn't trying to do with Lonnie last night, he pissed off a game with his horrible rotations. I guess he pissed off a chance at winning a game - there are no guarantees of a W. But Pop's rotations pretty much guaranteed the L.

Nah, if we didn't give them so many second chance opportunities and missed a bunch of free throws, we would've won without a doubt.

[ZeusWillJudge]

There was plenty of blame to go around. Everyone else has taken a verbal beating over their poor play (including missed FT's and weak boarding). I don't understand the people who line up to cut Pop slack. The simple truth is, the Spurs could have been more competitive without some of the bizarre lineups. It wouldn't have taken much to have turned that into a toss-up game.

BTW - I don't think anyone here is questioning the fact that Lonnie made mistakes. It's about how Pop handled him, and about the lineups. Yell at him if you have to - then put him back in the game to see how he responds. He's not getting better sitting on his ass. And Beli's not getting better on the court.

[Spurtacular]

He’s trying to get a trade demand and he’s going to get it, tbh

:lol All these Pop suckers defending the guy for using the same process that lost Kawhi.

[ElNono]

Dog house? Like calling him out was not enough? Lol

[Mugen]

Dog house? Like calling him out was not enough? Lol

Personally, I'm excited. This tells me Pop sees something in Walker and he's trying to get it out of him. If Pop just wanted a defender today who wouldn't make many mistakes, he could remove DeMarre Carroll from the shrink wrap. But he's trying to get greatness out of Walker (albeit on another team.) :tu

[ElNono]

^rofl

[ZeusWillJudge]

Personally, I'm excited. This tells me Pop sees something in Walker and he's trying to get it out of him. If Pop just wanted a defender today who wouldn't make many mistakes, he could remove DeMarre Carroll from the shrink wrap. But he's trying to get greatness out of Walker (albeit on another team.) :tu


:lol

Pop will get to see the best of Lonnie every time he's in SA.

[Manong Ginobili]

Today, he has been noncompetitive as well,

[J_Paco]

Thank goodness half the idiots whining and "mocking" one of the all-time great coaches isn't anywhere near an even semi-pro organization.

The combined basketball IQ of all the trolls in the this thread is less than 0........

[hater]

Pop is a senile old fuck that already cost us Mute Cancer.

He needs to go the fuck away and live the rest of his days planting flowers and drinking wine.

[ElNono]

Thank goodness half the idiots whining and "mocking" one of the all-time great coaches isn't anywhere near an even semi-pro organization.

The combined basketball IQ of all the trolls in the this thread is less than 0........

What happened to the dislike button tbh?

[exstatic]

What happened to the dislike button tbh?

Those same trolls cried until it went away.

[DMC]

The shock collar comment got me. :lol

I'd love to have that in a video game.

[DMC]

What happened to the dislike button tbh?

You have a group here who like everything their buddies post, and a group who dislikes everything the other group posts. We already know who's who. Why do we need to be reminded?

[ZeusWillJudge]

Pop is a senile old fuck that already cost us Mute Cancer.

He needs to go the fuck away and live the rest of his days planting flowers and drinking wine.


He could be a wine justice activist. More than 99% of the world's population has never had a decent bottle.

[Atl Spur]

Dude was playing soft and got called out; teachable moment. If he can’t take criticism as a professional, we’ve got bigger issues!

[phxspurfan]

Kids can't take criticism these days. Trade demand incoming.

[R. DeMurre]

I guess we'll have to wait & see. I'm generally a Pop fan, but that doesn't mean I don't think he could use a little bit less of the hardass "drill Sargeant" approach and a little more of the calm & seriously measured approach of a John Wooden. If sitting down with a smart young player like Walker and telling him with complete sincerity that he needs to up the effort defensively doesn't work, then I don't know if calling him out to journalists-- those same journalists that Pop usually mistreats and has little respect for-- is going to necessarily be helpful... especially on a team where at least four guys who are career defensive liabilities don't have trouble getting playing time.

[Mugen]

Nothing like trying to get greatness out of a kid by giving him 2 minutes and yanking him as soon as he makes a mistake.

Imagine Pop pulling Kawhi and benching him for the next 5 games right after Rudy picked his pocket :lol

[exstatic]

Nothing like trying to get greatness out of a kid by giving him 2 minutes and yanking him as soon as he makes a mistake.

Imagine Pop pulling Kawhi and benching him for the next 5 games right after Rudy picked his pocket :lol

Kawhi always competed and excelled on defense. Bad analogy.

[Mugen]

Kawhi always competed and excelled on defense. Bad analogy.

My man, ex. Need you to see my Q/A thread please. Have some good questions for you there.

[duncan2k5]

Yeah, in a related point, Pop only goes hard at players he knows can handle it. He could scream at Duncan and Parker because Pop knew they wouldn't crumble. Pop also knows he has to be gentle with more delicate personalities like Aldridge, DeRozan, etc.

It's not about yelling... He wasn't benching Parker and ginobili indefinitely when they made a mistake

[duncan2k5]

One thing I've noticed about Lonnie, a good thing potential wise, is that he has what I call 'cornerback hips'. In the NFL, you can have two guys the same height and weight, and with identical 40 times, and one can be a cornerback, while the other will not be anything other than a nickle back or a safety. An elite corner has the ability to open his hips while back pedaling, so the can quickly change direction and pick up his receiver. The same physical profile allows one to slip through and around screens in the NBA with minimal contact. It's really tough to pick off these guys cleanly. You know who else has this? Dejounte.

Lonnie can be an ELITE defender if he pulls his head out of his ass, and accepts and embraces the challenge, and I'm talking All NBA Defense teams in his future and maybe a DPOY.

A major part of defense is learning tendencies... U have to actually play... U will learn more about player and team tendencies playing the game as opposed to being benched

[Kobe'sAchilles]

It's not about yelling... He wasn't benching Parker and ginobili indefinitely when they made a mistake

That was exactly my point. I don't give a shit that Pop yelled at Lonnie and called him out to the media. BUT you can't do that when you aren't even playing the kid. The kid is averaging less than 5 minutes a game, blaming him for the loss when other players getting BIGGER minutes (I'm looking at you Marco) and the COACH who is in charge of these minutes are more to blame than Lonnie. Also LMA has played like shit the entire season and Pop has been quieter than a church mouse on that subject.

[MultiTroll]

Yeah, in a related point, Pop only goes hard at players he knows can handle it. He could scream at Duncan and Parker because Pop knew they wouldn't crumble. Pop also knows he has to be gentle with more delicate personalities like Aldridge, DeRozan, etc.
Brilliant acquisitions.
Let's see if Pop can push thru the Derosian extension so this Post Duncan/Post Kawhi "Big 3" playoffs run can continue.


Offensively, this was another weak performance out of LaMarcus Aldridge. He passed the ball better than usual but rarely put in the effort to take advantage of his size and skill advantage against a small, inexperienced Hawks team. There were flashes of energy from Aldridge but mostly he went through the motions on offense. (It should be noted that one of his baskets was an accidental tip-in by the Hawks, so his shooting was even worse than it looks.) On defense, Aldridge was more than solid in the first half, as he totaled four blocks in his first 18 minutes of action. But his defense in the second half was comatose. Aldridge not only was inept when switched onto smaller players, he also managed to play 15 and a half minutes in the second half without a defensive rebound, block or steal. It’s not going to be easy for the Spurs
to win these games in which Aldridge is spending most of his time on the court sleepjogging. <end article paragraph>
Summary:
rarely put in the effort

mostly he went through the motions
comatose
sleepjogging

But but but, Aldridge cannot be called out by Pop but Walker can. :spin:downspin:

^Not saying you agree with this last sentence Porks, rather pointing out the CIA Pop mindset and actions.