Grades: Spurs @ Warriors - Nov. 1, 2019

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-golden-state-warriors-november-1-2019/

tl;dr: Patty Mills partied like it was 2014. Lyles' play is mind-boggling for a guy known in his career as a scorer until he signed with San Antonio.

[Chris]

Great stuff :tu

[Fireball]

so both point guards are on a minutes restriction ...

[MoSpur02]

Good write-up LJ.

I can't figure Trey Lyles out. He seems to fit in great in this system, but hasn't shown much of anything on the offensive side in regards to shooting, which is what he's known for. His basketball IQ is high, which is a plus. He's a great rebounder, which I didn't expect and his defense is solid. If he starts making shots the Spurs may have gotten lucky once again when it comes to free agent signings on the cheap.

[ceperez]

Good write-up LJ.

I can't figure Trey Lyles out. He seems to fit in great in this system, but hasn't shown much of anything on the offensive side in regards to shooting, which is what he's known for. His basketball IQ is high, which is a plus. He's a great rebounder, which I didn't expect and his defense is solid. If he starts making shots the Spurs may have gotten lucky once again when it comes to free agent signings on the cheap.

I trust whatever basketball development plan that he currently is enrolled in!

What I like about him and Poetl is that in offense, they are extremely mobile. The Spurs are going to figure out a formula that's create a ton of easy opportunities for these two. Lyles has the upside of being able to shoot from range (we haven't seen it yet, but with Chip helping him out, it's a guarantee).

With Poetl, Gay and Carroll there's decent size in the second unit that'll give other teams a lot of problems.

DeRozan and Aldridge playing a 2 man game can be very deadly. You can practically get a good shot every play! If a big needs to help against DeRozan then its an uncontested shot by Aldridge. No need for Aldridge to go one on one. Just isolate the two on one side and let them play together.

Poetl and White also have a very good pick and roll game (didn't show this in this game).

Looking forward to seeing the Spurs invent new schemes to compensate for not having superstars!

[GreekSpursfan]

Agree with everything but we can't take this game seriously against the current Warriors, great write-up though.

[tbdog]

Patty is quietly having a good start to the season. But ST is too anti Mills, Beli, Pop to notice.

[Shakril]

Mills may have had a good game, but the first 4 were atrocious. I hope this game changes his play for the better, but i doubt it.
Lyles too i cant understand the hype around him. Yes he had 12 Rebounds, but many of those were a result of waiting for the ball to rebound, while forgetting to defend properly. Also the spacing with him on the floor is not really better than with Poeltl. I thought he was supposed to be a 3Pt sniper so Teams have to respect him and guard him. Right now he does not hit even white open shots. But Maybe he just needs a little time, but as of now is see no reason to start him over Poeltl.

Overall it showed, that the 2nd Unit (not Belli) plays better than the Startes (without Murray). Its no secret that with the 2nd unit the spurs are making difference. yesterday the same. Even game until 2nd Unit, spurs build a lead, 1st uni comes in and the lead shrinks to 2 by halftime. Its not the first time this season. I hope its just a fluke from the flow of the game, but if Spurs starters get outplayed every game, than it will be difficult going forward.

[Mr. Body]

The big takeaway beyond Mills for me was Trey Lyles hoovering up rebounds and playing well. If he's willing to take shots, they should start falling. He's concentrating on defensive areas of the game he's not done much before.

DeMarre Carroll was the other one. He looks like a scrappy platoon guy and needs more time.

[Mugen]

Last night reminded me of how brutal last season's team was to watch when DWhite wasn't doing great. :lol

Thank god for him and Dejounte this season even though they won't be given a chance to actually mesh/play together.

I thought Gay looked good, probably just out of shape to start the year. Carroll's size and length look to be useful but again who knows if he'll be allowed to help the team this year.

I don't understand the Lyles hype like at all. Draymond basically wasn't within 10 feet of him all night and other smart teams will start following suit. Seems crazy to put another non-shooter in a SL that already has 3 but everybody knows the old man is infallible :pop:

[ZeusWillJudge]

Lyles is doing exactly what most people said he couldn't/wouldn't do. He's not a black hole on offense, he's defending, and he's hitting the boards hard. He appears to be focused on those things, and having some decent success at them. Lyles had the misfortune of landing on a Spurs team that is struggling, so the needs/expectations for him are higher. If he had landed on pretty much any Spurs team prior to, say 2017, this exact performance would have gotten him a lot more praise. As it is, there is a constant worry about who is going to show up on any given night among the team veterans - and so there is a real concern about Lyles' current lack of scoring. I think that if he started throwing up shots right now it would get good for him, and he'd be back to the old Trey Lyles in a heartbeat. I am more than happy to let him continue to develop his new habits, and then begin adding scoring as an integral part of the Spurs' offense.

The game looks easy when everything you throw up is falling. OP knows that. Last night Patty scored almost 3x the number of points he had in his second best outing this season - which is a good thing, because he managed just 2 AST. IMO, judging either Patty or Beli on the basis of their scattered streak-shooting nights is a waste of time. Talking about Patty's Points/100 possessions after 5 games, and one of those games being a total aberration? That's a pipe dream.

But if we're going to talk about Patty's Points/100 Possessions, how can we not mention that Beli's has been about 50% less so far than the rest of his career? Or the fact that Patty's TO/100 Possessions is the highest since his rookie season? Or that Patty is averaging almost a foul-out per 100 Possessions? Or the fact that Beli's ORTG so far this season is 87... 87!!! Far and away the lowest of his career. (Sadly, Beli's 111 DRTG is only slightly worse than his career average.) Patty had a good scoring game last night. If he keeps it up, I'll gladly eat crow. But the simple fact is that with that one exception, both he and Beli have been dreadful so far. And the ceiling of this team is absolutely limited if they continue to be mainstays, and can't show that this has been early season rust.

Carroll is an upgrade to Beli in pretty much everything but 3P shooting. And since Beli is shooting .143 from 3P so far, that really isn't a consideration. Carroll is more than capable of replacing Beli's minutes at SF, especially if he can shoot the 3 anything like he has for the rest of his career. The bottom line always comes down to points scored minus points given up, and Marco is a net negative. Unless he steps up his game, this year he's a big net negative. Any improvement in that regard, meaning Carroll, makes the team better. (Yes, I'm sick of watching Marco's sloppy play.)

For me, the bright spot of the game (looking forward) was Rudy Gay. He's a guy who can be a solid contributor night after night, and as TIMVP said, he appears to be rounding into shape.

[KobesAchilles]

Patty is quietly having a good start to the season. But ST is too anti Mills, Beli, Pop to notice.

He sucked the season opener, against the Clippers and against Washington. Pretty sad that 2 out of 5 games of competent play is now considered a good start of the season.

[sananspursfan21]

Good win. Even if it is against a glorified college team, good win. These are the types of games I’ve seen our guys drop so I’m glad they put their heads down and put it away in the 2nd half. I didn’t see anything of note from anyone particular but Gay did look much better. DLoafing going off didn’t really look good but Pop might have said screw it, let him get his and keep everyone else from going off.

[Dex]

Agree with everything but we can't take this game seriously against the current Warriors, great write-up though.

They are obviously not the Warriors of old, but it is encouraging to see the Spurs take the game seriously and win convincingly instead of playing down to their level...especially on the 2nd night of the B2B and with wacky rotations.

The Spurs found themselves in the position they did last year because they gave up way too many "scheduled wins" early in the season. So far, we are 3-0 against the cupcakes and 1-1 against playoff teams on this young season, so I'll take it.

[Arcadian]

We don't need Lyles to score. I like the role he's playing just fine.

[FkLA]

On top of inexplicable playing limited minutes, so far this year White is also playing off ball a lot. LMA used to be the one that played most of the first quarter, but since like the second game it's been DeRozan. That takes the ball away from White.

Being so underused explains his lack of assists, imo.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Patrick Mills > Patrick Mahomes

[Truth4sale$]

Thanks for the write up Tim. This game was too close for too long. The Spurs should have been able to put these guys away earlier. I think this is also a game/opponent where Lonnie Walker and the rookies should have gotten more playing time. The new look warriors are inexperienced, youth, but athletic players. Poole, Russell, and Paschall seemed to have it too easy against the Spurs. Would have liked to see what Keldon Johnson and Weatherspoon could have done to slow them down. It didnt seem like like White,Forbes, could.

[FkLA]

He sucked the season opener, against the Clippers and against Washington. Pretty sad that 2 out of 5 games of competent play is now considered a good start of the season.

He was shooting 36% from the field prior to the LAC game. :lol

[daslicer]

They are obviously not the Warriors of old, but it is encouraging to see the Spurs take the game seriously and win convincingly instead of playing down to their level...especially on the 2nd night of the B2B and with wacky rotations.

The Spurs found themselves in the position they did last year because they gave up way too many "scheduled wins" early in the season. So far, we are 3-0 against the cupcakes and 1-1 against playoff teams on this young season, so I'll take it.

Teams usually play super hard the first game after their superstar is injured before mailing it in a few games later. Spurs got the Warriors best effort and eventually blew them out instead of just throwing the game away which was positive.

[spurs10]

Thanks for the grades. Yes it good to see LMA play better. The Clips game is still a mystery. Patty was indeed 'partying like it was 2014.'

[Fireball]

It really looked like DeMar made it his mission this game to assist LA in scoring to make him feel better after the abysmal game against the Clips ...

[BackHome]

Teams usually play super hard the first game after their superstar is injured before mailing it in a few games later. Spurs got the Warriors best effort and eventually blew them out instead of just throwing the game away which was positive.

Totally agree I actually thought because this was the first game without Curry they would win just to show up haters. Glad we were able to fight through it and come out with a win I’ll take 4 and 1 any year.

[John B]

Thanks Timvp for the grades. It was a very satisfactory win even against a depleted team. I don’t care. It’s a win against Draymond’s team. I’m still not satisfied with Aldridge performance. I want him to punish his defender inside and earn trips to the line, or pass to an open Forbes, Lyles? I like what I’m seeing with Lyles. I think he’s sold on playing defense, rebounding, being the glue guy. He can shoot, so that would come. Carroll is a big body who can play defense, fight for 50/50 ball. Let’s see how they play against Lakers tomorrow.

[tbdog]

He sucked the season opener, against the Clippers and against Washington. Pretty sad that 2 out of 5 games of competent play is now considered a good start of the season.

He did not suck. So full of shit.

[Slippy]

It really looked like DeMar made it his mission this game to assist LA in scoring to make him feel better after the abysmal game against the Clips ...

Demar had 7tos that last game. That 7 shots the rest of his teammates could have had.

Demar is slowly becoming ball dominant just like last season. Meaning there's going to be less usage by the likes of DWhite and Dj. In return less touches to Lamarcus who needs the ball fed to him.

[KobesAchilles]

He did not suck. So full of shit.

lol ok then. In what way did he not suck? He either shot poorly and scored poorly in those 3 games. He played bad defense and didn’t distribute either. But if you want to go over those 3 games and tell me how he didn’t suck then I welcome the challenge. I could use a laugh tbh.

[tbdog]

lol ok then. In what way did he not suck? He either shot poorly and scored poorly in those 3 games. He played bad defense and didn’t distribute either. But if you want to go over those 3 games and tell me how he didn’t suck then I welcome the challenge. I could use a laugh tbh.


44% from 3? Except for the first game of the season where we all kinda sucked, he has shot 50% from 3 since

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Demar had 7tos that last game. That 7 shots the rest of his teammates could have had.

Demar is slowly becoming ball dominant just like last season. Meaning there's going to be less usage by the likes of DWhite and Dj. In return less touches to Lamarcus who needs the ball fed to him.

with no dj on the floor, derozan takes over point-playmaker-ballhandling responsibilities, just like last year

[ZeusWillJudge]

44% from 3? Except for the first game of the season where we all kinda sucked, he has shot 50% from 3 since


Yes he has. Along with the highest TO rate and PF rate (per 100) of his career, and his lowest AST rate since 13-14. That last bit shows up just as clearly in his AST%, which is his lowest of any point in his career. Or how about the fact that a pathetically small percentage of his 2P shots have been assisted (29%) compared to about 45% for the rest of his Spurs career? (Which means the ball isn't being shared while he's on the floor.)

And the numbers don't even take into account the fact that he coughs the ball up under any sort of ball pressure, so he has to dump it off to someone else (which kills offensive flow). More than ever, he's become a very-undersized 2 guard who is functioning (not functioning) as a PG. On the nights when he's hitting lots of shots, its easy to defend him. The rest of the time, he's a losing proposition.

We're only 5 games in, so things will change - whether for better or worse. But so far, he's looked like a slightly worse version of something I was already sick of. Even so, I'd rather have him on the bench than Beli.

[KobesAchilles]

44% from 3? Except for the first game of the season where we all kinda sucked, he has shot 50% from 3 since

I mean yeah it sounds nice to say he shot 44% from 3! But he only made 1 against the Clippers and while he did make 2 against the Wizards BUT those were his only point for the game. But hey averaging 6 points a game and less than 2 assists during those 3 games is now considered a good start to the season. Not to mention his awful turnover to assist ratio. The dude had a GREAT game against the Warriors and I’m happy about that. I will take the win. But don’t come in here thinking that he’s been playing well bc of that one game.

[Seventyniner]

Yes he has. Along with the highest TO rate and PF rate (per 100) of his career, and his lowest AST rate since 13-14. That last bit shows up just as clearly in his AST%, which is his lowest of any point in his career. Or how about the fact that a pathetically small percentage of his 2P shots have been assisted (29%) compared to about 45% for the rest of his Spurs career? (Which means the ball isn't being shared while he's on the floor.)

And the numbers don't even take into account the fact that he coughs the ball up under any sort of ball pressure, so he has to dump it off to someone else (which kills offensive flow). More than ever, he's become a very-undersized 2 guard who is functioning (not functioning) as a PG. On the nights when he's hitting lots of shots, its easy to defend him. The rest of the time, he's a losing proposition.

We're only 5 games in, so things will change - whether for better or worse. But so far, he's looked like a slightly worse version of something I was already sick of. Even so, I'd rather have him on the bench than Beli.

The TO and PF parts are potentially concerning. The AST part, and having to dump the ball off, aren't. Patty isn't a PG anymore, no more than Forbes is, now that both Murray and White are getting nearly all the PG minutes. Catch-and-shoot players shouldn't be judged on AST numbers.

With only 5 games of data, compared to hundreds of career games before this, I wouldn't put too much stock in this year's numbers yet. Small sample size effects and all that.

[BackHome]

As long as they play Patty and Belli correctly - Both should not be starting and both should be used as heat checkers meaning put them in for a few minutes is they get hot keep them in and if they start bricking take them out.