Official Q/A Thread with the Pop Seat Sniffin' Crew

[Mugen]

This is a serious thread. Ask a serious question and a Sniffer gives you a serious answer. Please, serious inquiries only.

I'll start with a two-parter:

It's been 7 games, why hasn't Pop challenged a single call yet this season? Will he challenge one all season?

[Dhbsr555]

Ya he will challenge a play when one of our guys hits a winning shot. He will be like I don’t think he got it off in time

[daslicer]

He will challenge a play that goes against his pupils Kerr,Brown,Bud.

[FkLA]

Challenges are beneath a genius like him, tbh.

[Mugen]

Good serious responses, tbh.

Two clear plays that could have been challenged tonight: ball going off LMA and Poetl's foul on Bembry's dunk attempt.

Any Sniffer out there willing to throw out if/when they think Pop will challenge a call this season?

[TimDunkem]

Obviously not a sniffer since I've always called out Poop, but to answer your question I think he'll do it on some random, inconsequential play at the end of the game to give the other team a hard time as a joke, and most certainly with his trademark shit eating grin on his face.

[Mugen]

Obviously not a sniffer since I've always called out Poop, but to answer your question I think he'll do it on some random, inconsequential play at the end of the game to give the other team a hard time as a joke, and most certainly with his trademark shit eating grin on his face.

That's actually the most plausible scenario tbh. Well done.

[Mugen]

Let's keep the party going tbh -

Why has Demarre Carroll played a total of 11 minutes over 7 games when the Spurs gave him 3 years/21 million this summer?

[TimDunkem]

That's actually the most plausible scenario tbh. Well done.

I'll also add: likely, as dasclicer said, to one of the Kerr/Brown/Bud teams.

I can already see the shit eating grin and thumbs up to the other bench now as Pop's Spurs trail by 15 with 2 minutes to go.

[Mugen]

I'll also add: likely, as dasclicer said, to one of the Kerr/Brown/Bud teams.

I can already see the shit eating grin and thumbs up to the other bench now as Pop's Spurs trail by 15 with 2 minutes to go.

:lol tbh

[timvp]

This is a serious thread. Ask a serious question and a Sniffer gives you a serious answer. Please, serious inquiries only.

I'll start with a two-parter:

It's been 7 games, why hasn't Pop challenged a single call yet this season? Will he challenge one all season?


Damn, I put on my bib and was ready to drop some truth bombs but this was the lame question you came up with with all the other possibilities? You watch dat game tonight? :lol

There has been a total of 23 successful challenges all season long -- or less than one per team. How is :crychallenges:cry an issue right now, tbh, :lol?

[Joseph Kony]

He should have used the challenge on the Derozan travel call. i mean that was the perfect time, big moment later in the fourth on a momentum shifting play. Dude is so fucking old and senile he probably doesnt even remember that he can challenge a call.

[Mugen]

Damn, I put on my bib and was ready to drop some truth bombs but this was the lame question you came up with with all the other possibilities? You watch dat game tonight? :lol

There has been a total of 23 successful challenges all season long -- or less than one per team. How is :crychallenges:cry an issue right now, tbh, :lol?

Tim - this is a serious thread tbh.

From the looks of it, we'll have plenty of opportunities to bump this thread with many, many, more serious questions.

[TimDunkem]

I got one: Why did Poop settle on DumbMar and Jakob fucking Poeltl?

[Mugen]

I got one: Why did Poop settle on DumbMar and Jakob fucking Poeltl?

That one has actually been answered by the Sniffers a lot tbh.

It was to punish Kawhi and Dennis by sending him to the frozen tundra. The problem was that the RC couldn't even get OG back let alone Siakam and Nephew was able to add a championship to his legacy along the way. :lol

[NASpurs]

I got one: Why did Poop settle on DumbMar and Jakob fucking Poeltl?

Tim, that’s a question that’ll only be answered in Pop’s memoirs.

[TheRemix]

This is a serious thread. Ask a serious question and a Sniffer gives you a serious answer. Please, serious inquiries only.

I'll start with a two-parter:

It's been 7 games, why hasn't Pop challenged a single call yet this season? Will he challenge one all season?


"Because it's not fair to the other team. Basketball is a game of mistakes and when the refs make mistakes it reminds us that they're human. To overturn a call by an official is disrespecting the game of basketball and the way it's meant to be played, much like the three pointer. I hate the three pointer. What's next a four pointer? How about we award 5 points for half court shots? It's just not basketball. Get over yourselves.." :pop:

[timtonymanu]

That one has actually been answered by the Sniffers a lot tbh.

It was to punish Kawhi and Dennis by sending him to the frozen tundra. The problem was that the RC couldn't even get OG back let alone Siakam and Nephew was able to add a championship to his legacy along the way. :lol

“Why have a cancer in the lockerroom when you can have several on the court, tbh.”

[timtonymanu]

"Because it's not fair to the other team. Basketball is a game of mistakes and when the refs make mistakes it reminds us that they're human. To overturn a call by an official is disrespecting the game of basketball and the way it's meant to be played, much like the three pointer. I hate the three pointer. What's next a four pointer? How about we award 5 points for half court shots? It's just not basketball. Get over yourselves.." :pop:

Wouldn’t put it past the old man to say exactly that lol

[TimmyBuckets]

Pop should get COY if this team gets to the playoffs this year tbh.

[Mugen]

Pop should get COY if this team gets to the playoffs this year tbh.

Interesting. Maybe he should blame the guy who put the team together?

[timtonymanu]

Pop should get COY if this team gets to the playoffs this year tbh.

He’s the biggest reason this team is struggling right now

[TheRemix]

Is there a legit or logical answer as to why pop won't play Murray and white together? The one time he did the defensive backcourt duo got a stop to win the game. What's the hold up? Trying not to give other teams film of the two?

[Mugen]

Is there a legit or logical answer as to why pop won't play Murray and white together? The one time he did the defensive backcourt duo got a stop to win the game. What's the hold up? Trying not to give other teams film of the two?

That might be the Sniffer answer tbh :lol

Big Brain Pop not playing his two best young guys at the same time so teams can't scout the 10th seeded Spurs come May.

[DPG21920]

Damn, I put on my bib and was ready to drop some truth bombs but this was the lame question you came up with with all the other possibilities? You watch dat game tonight? :lol

There has been a total of 23 successful challenges all season long -- or less than one per team. How is :crychallenges:cry an issue right now, tbh, :lol?

Hey answer my Brian Wright question lol.

But I’ve been burned on this before but I’ll go ahead: it’s not that challenges are an “issue”. It’s that it seems symbolic of engagement. Look at these rotations. Look at the painfully obvious coaching mistakes. Look at the lifelessness of LMA and the team as a whole (constantly down double digits and no fight).

You don’t buy that challenges by a coach are a sign of engagement? He, like many players, seem to have very little fight left. His only fight is with Lonnie meanwhile I’ve personally never seen a more listless and lack of chemistry Spurs team in the past 20+ years.

There seems to be no accountability (look at LMA effort after a truly boneheaded decision to guarantee his deal early) as evidenced by no call out of LMA Beli or anyone but Lonnie despite completely unacceptable efforts from many.

Just more of waxing poetic with no real leadership right now.

[SAGirl]

Let's keep the party going tbh -

Why has Demarre Carroll played a total of 11 minutes over 7 games when the Spurs gave him 3 years/21 million this summer?
Sniffers would tell you that’s only a partial guarantee on the 3rd year and his salary is fair and tradeable :spin

All inconsequential when you really can’t consider a trade of a guy absolutely not playing for you and get anything useful back... and the point is they spent that money and wedge of the budget on an old forward that’s injury insurance and about 11th-12th in the rotation any given night.

[r0drig0lac]

"Because it's not fair to the other team. Basketball is a game of mistakes and when the refs make mistakes it reminds us that they're human. To overturn a call by an official is disrespecting the game of basketball and the way it's meant to be played, much like the three pointer. I hate the three pointer. What's next a four pointer? How about we award 5 points for half court shots? It's just not basketball. Get over yourselves.." :pop:

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

[RD2191]

Pop is finished tbh. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 1 player requested a trade this season. I've said it a million times before, his coaching style/shtick does not work on today's NBA players.

[Mugen]

Great serious discussion here but we need some actual Sniffers to share with us what their Sniffee is thinking with all these amazing coaching decisions. I mean even just a "Spurs have been the best organization the last 20 years is sufficient.

This is a Sniffer Safe Space.

[duncan2k5]

Pop is finished tbh. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 1 player requested a trade this season. I've said it a million times before, his coaching style/shtick does not work on today's NBA players.

Who did it work on in the past? What rookie has he treated like Lonnie that ended up being a star? Or borderline star?

[TimDunkem]

Sniffers would tell you that’s only a partial guarantee on the 3rd year and his salary is fair and tradeable :spin

All inconsequential when you really can’t consider a trade of a guy absolutely not playing for you and get anything useful back... and the point is they spent that money and wedge of the budget on an old forward that’s injury insurance and about 11th-12th in the rotation any given night.

I'm getting Gasol deal flashbacks. Slurpers said that deal would get something good back for 2+ years.

[Fireball]

I really do not know if he is aware of the possibility to challenge a call in the game. If nobody from the assistant coaches give him a hint during the game it might never happen. I already stated it but I really would have liked to see a challenge in the Laker game when AD took a charge from Derozan. The refs took away a three point play from us and a foul from Davis. Even if it was not the fourth quarter a successful challenge would have been very beneficial.

[TDomination]

Let's keep the party going tbh -

Why has Demarre Carroll played a total of 11 minutes over 7 games when the Spurs gave him 3 years/21 million this summer?
I haven't seen anyone attack this question yet unless I skipped the post.

Demarre Carroll has showed a lack of culture during training camp and preseason. He needs to understand that dressing yourself a certain style not only reflects on him but reflects on the team as well. Until he understands this and realizes who is in charge, he will not see any playing until he is ready to come to change his ways. This has nothing to do with basketball, it never has with Pop. It has more to do with what you do in the outside world. Basketball is just a game where a ball goes through a hoop for points. This is life. Get over yourself Demarre. Dress for Success!

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Bend over Mugen, I'll give you a challenge.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

Let's keep the party going tbh -

Why has Demarre Carroll played a total of 11 minutes over 7 games when the Spurs gave him 3 years/21 million this summer?

It's Pops last year so I will defend the dude. Carroll is washed. Way more washed than anyone thought. You can thank GM Wright for that. The 3rd year was to make room for Morris so that's inconsequential. Carroll can't guard anyone and can't hit anything. By all accounts, he was a bad teammate in Brooklyn which is why I'm surprised we signed him.

[Roscoe P. Coltrane]

Dude doesn't want to take 3 pointers at a high rate not because of pragmatism but because of aesthetics and taste, like Basketball is his own brand of fucking wine. So I do believe he sees this new innovation as going against his high brow taste and is not using it for that reason.

[Mugen]

Bend over Mugen, I'll give you a challenge.

Ed, you're my guy. You've Sniffed before but you know I can never stay mad at ya.

I'm just legitimately asking for answers on some really confusing Pop decisions in the most obnoxious way I know. :lol

[Spurs4#5]

Is there a legit or logical answer as to why pop won't play Murray and white together? The one time he did the defensive backcourt duo got a stop to win the game. What's the hold up? Trying not to give other teams film of the two?
Thinking of it logically, because of the minutes restriction on Murray he wants to have at least one of them on The floor. I also understand people are pissed because of the current rotations but I can’t think of a time when the rotation at the start of the season was the same going into the playoffs so some might want to pump the brakes on the cliff jumping with 75 games left in the season.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Ed, you're my guy. You've Sniffed before but you know I can never stay mad at ya.

I'm just legitimately asking for answers on some really confusing Pop decisions in the most obnoxious way I know. :lol

I was just messing around, brother. Seemed like an appropriate thread to throw that in. :lol


I'm just as perplexed as you are about some of the coaching decisions being made this year.

[BackHome]

Hey answer my Brian Wright question lol.

But I’ve been burned on this before but I’ll go ahead: it’s not that challenges are an “issue”. It’s that it seems symbolic of engagement. Look at these rotations. Look at the painfully obvious coaching mistakes. Look at the lifelessness of LMA and the team as a whole (constantly down double digits and no fight).

You don’t buy that challenges by a coach are a sign of engagement? He, like many players, seem to have very little fight left. His only fight is with Lonnie meanwhile I’ve personally never seen a more listless and lack of chemistry Spurs team in the past 20+ years.

There seems to be no accountability (look at LMA effort after a truly boneheaded decision to guarantee his deal early) as evidenced by no call out of LMA Beli or anyone but Lonnie despite completely unacceptable efforts from many.

Just more of waxing poetic with no real leadership right now.

+ 1 Could not have said it better

[BackHome]

Who did it work on in the past? What rookie has he treated like Lonnie that ended up being a star? Or borderline star?

Thats easy one Parker got bashed on a daily basis and he traded Sean Elliott to Detroit. Lol. But I get you that tough love shit don’t work with the new generation.

He is not treating Murray the same way he is treating White or Walker which is my biggest problem with Pop.

[DPG21920]

+ 1 Could not have said it better

Go ahead and hit that like button and click subscribe on the top right corner of the video

[TheRemix]

Thats easy one Parker got bashed on a daily basis and he traded Sean Elliott to Detroit. Lol. But I get you that tough love shit don’t work with the new generation.

He is not treating Murray the same way he is treating White or Walker which is my biggest problem with Pop.

Murray is a client of Klutch. They'll request for a trade if they feel his is disrespected

[FkLA]

I haven't seen anyone attack this question yet unless I skipped the post.

Demarre Carroll has showed a lack of culture during training camp and preseason. He needs to understand that dressing yourself a certain style not only reflects on him but reflects on the team as well. Until he understands this and realizes who is in charge, he will not see any playing until he is ready to come to change his ways. This has nothing to do with basketball, it never has with Pop. It has more to do with what you do in the outside world. Basketball is just a game where a ball goes through a hoop for points. This is life. Get over yourself Demarre. Dress for Success!

Underrated post. :lol :tu

[Joseph Kony]

Really hope the young Holts tell Pop to quit being such a little bitch and remind him who is actually in charge of the Spurs org. They cant be happy seeing this lifeless on court play.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

pop hasnt challenged because its pointless
carroll hasnt been playing because he sucks, and pop is waiting to see how much longer belli sucks before he puts in the new/vet sucky guy

[SAGirl]

I'm getting Gasol deal flashbacks. Slurpers said that deal would get something good back for 2+ years.
Same thing I thought...

[paperboy77]

Hey answer my Brian Wright question lol.

But I’ve been burned on this before but I’ll go ahead: it’s not that challenges are an “issue”. It’s that it seems symbolic of engagement. Look at these rotations. Look at the painfully obvious coaching mistakes. Look at the lifelessness of LMA and the team as a whole (constantly down double digits and no fight).

You don’t buy that challenges by a coach are a sign of engagement? He, like many players, seem to have very little fight left. His only fight is with Lonnie meanwhile I’ve personally never seen a more listless and lack of chemistry Spurs team in the past 20+ years.

There seems to be no accountability (look at LMA effort after a truly boneheaded decision to guarantee his deal early) as evidenced by no call out of LMA Beli or anyone but Lonnie despite completely unacceptable efforts from many.

Just more of waxing poetic with no real leadership right now.

Gonna frame this one.

Sadly this is the perfect interpretation of this once great team and great coach.

[spurraider21]

Dude doesn't want to take 3 pointers at a high rate not because of pragmatism but because of aesthetics and taste, like Basketball is his own brand of fucking wine. So I do believe he sees this new innovation as going against his high brow taste and is not using it for that reason.
pop had no problem leading the league in 3's during the early and mid 2010s :lol... suddenly when the warriors/rockets did it better he complained about it

[dbestpro]

I remember watching Woody Hayes get senile while coaching until he tackled a player running down the sidelines. Pop reminds me a lot of how Hayes acted and coached leading up to that moment.

[spurraider21]

im glad they decided to fully guarantee LMA's next season salary when they didnt have to only to have him return the "goodwill" by playing like a lethargic piece of shit

i know that's not in question form, but you can figure it out

[Mugen]

im glad they decided to fully guarantee LMA's next season salary when they didnt have to only to have him return the "goodwill" by playing like a lethargic piece of shit

i know that's not in question form, but you can figure it out

:lol

[spurraider21]

:lmao "goodwill" and "signaling their plan to other players" as reasons :lmao

[spurraider21]

Q/A thread about pop and marco hasn't come up yet?

[baseline bum]

That one has actually been answered by the Sniffers a lot tbh.

It was to punish Kawhi and Dennis by sending him to the frozen tundra. The problem was that the RC couldn't even get OG back let alone Siakam and Nephew was able to add a championship to his legacy along the way. :lol

Still think they should have just suspended mute for the season and let him rehab in NYC again.

[baseline bum]

Q: Why hasn't DeRozan gotten his Gasol contract yet?

[timvp]

For the pOp ShOuLd cHaLlEnGe edgelords out there, what do you think about this call against Lou Williams not being reversed?

1192340413341814784

:lol

[Mugen]

Good on Doc for at least giving a shit enough to challenge tbh.

[timvp]

Good on Doc for at least giving a shit enough to challenge tbh.

Probability-wise, the chances of a coach having a successful challenge through 7 games is about 50%. Edgelords really think that is a leading issue with the Spurs right now?

[Mugen]

Probability-wise, the chances of a coach having a successful challenge through 7 games is about 50%. Edgelords really think that is a leading issue with the Spurs right now?

Don't think anybody said it was a leading issue. Starting off with a layup for the Sniffers considering all the other Pop genius moves so far this season make no sense. was hoping there was an enlightening reason why Pop hasn't even thought about challenging.

So you're saying that a 50% chance of overturning a call isn't worth it for the old man? You think he actually challenges a call this year?

[DPG21920]

Probability-wise, the chances of a coach having a successful challenge through 7 games is about 50%. Edgelords really think that is a leading issue with the Spurs right now?

Why are you creating this straw man? I addressed the issue in my post. It’s not “the issue” - it’s symbolic. It’s about engagement and focus. Is Pop getting extra timeouts next game for carrying them over? No. So what’s the big deal on using them to make a point and fight for your guys?

At this point the only challenge I’m expecting from Pop is if Lonnie draws a charge for Pop to challenge and ask the refs for it to be called a foul so he can yell at him and yank him :lol

[timvp]

So you're saying that a 50% chance of overturning a call isn't worth it for the old man?

It's actually a 36% chance, tbh. The 50% was the probability of having a call overturned in a 7-game stretch. Obviously, not a big deal outside of the edgelord delusions.


I addressed the issue in my post. It’s not “the issue” - it’s symbolic. It’s about engagement and focus.

"I'm not going to try on defense or concentrate on this three-pointer because Pop isn't winning challenges!" - thought no Spurs player this year


At this point the only challenge I’m expecting from Pop is if Lonnie draws a charge for Pop to challenge and ask the refs for it to be called a foul so he can yell at him and yank him :lol
Why are you creating this straw man?

[Mugen]

:lol You're either completely missing the point or being purposefully obtuse. Obviously the team has bigger problems than Pop thinking challenging a call is beneath him.....

I'm supposed to question why Beli is getting a ton of minutes? Why DJ/White aren't playing together? Frankly, those aren't that surprising to anybody that's followed the old man the last 5 years. His guys are getting the minutes, that's just Pop for you.

Back to the OT - even if it was a 10% chance of being overturned, it costs the Spurs a timeout at most. You don't think a coach should try to get ANY advantage he can for his team? 36% seems pretty f'n high to me tbh.

[timvp]

His guys are getting the minutes, that's just Pop for you.

Do edgelords find it weird that Pop is starting Trey Lyles, which goes against all of edgelord doctrine that says Pop only plays old players or "his" players or however the narrative goes? Real Q.


Back to the OT - even if it was a 10% chance of being overturned, it costs the Spurs a timeout at most.So you think a 10% chance of a random play being overturned is worth more than a timeout, particularly in the second half? Questionable strategy, even before digging any deeper than that, tbh.

[Mugen]

Do edgelords find it weird that Pop is starting Trey Lyles, which goes against all of edgelord doctrine that says Pop only plays old players or "his" players or however the narrative goes? Real Q.

So you think a 10% chance of a random play being overturned is worth more than a timeout, particularly in the second half? Questionable strategy, even before digging any deeper than that, tbh.

1) You mean Trey Bogans Cunningham? Him starting doesn't surprise me in the least considering he was the shittiest player the Spurs added this offseason :lol
2) Do you not remember Pop's garbage out of bounds plays for the last several years? A timeout so Patty can waddle out there and get 3 screens from Jakob, LMA, and the aforementioned Lyles and probably not even get a shot off in time? A Derozan iso so he can try that bullshit stepback 20 footer? If it's a 4-6 point swing, yeah I'd rather get that then some garbage timeout play from Pop.

Did the F grade decrease Sniffer traffic that much because you're not making any sense tbh. You're smarter than this, Tim.

[timvp]

1) You mean Trey Bogans Cunningham? Him starting doesn't surprise me in the least considering he was the shittiest player the Spurs added this offseason :lol

Bogans and Cunningham were both old so they fit the edgelord doctrine. Repeat, does the fact Lyles is young and inexperienced cause a philosophical dilemma for edgelords? No dodging.


2) Do you not remember Pop's garbage out of bounds plays for the last several years?Stats say Pop draws up some of the most effective plays out of timeouts. And it's been that way for years.


A timeout so Patty can waddle out there and get 3 screens from Jakob, LMA, and the aforementioned Lyles and probably not even get a shot off in time?This happened?


If it's a 4-6 point swing, yeah I'd rather get that then some garbage timeout play from Pop.So edgelord doctrine believes Pop should challenge every game because his timeouts are worthless? That's an interesting scripture update, to say the least.


Did the F grade decrease Sniffer traffic that much because you're not making any sense tbh. You're smarter than this, Tim.

Tim, you should thank me for trying to drive traffic to your fledgling thread, tbh. :lol

[Mugen]

:lol My man has been Sniffin something else besides the old man's behind tbh.

Can't believe anybody would want a Pop end of game special instead of a 4-6 point swing. He didn't even need a timeout to roll out this gem:


https://youtu.be/-iDoYCl0-Tw?t=279

The edgelords are a big reason why this place isn't reddit.com/r/spurstalk so you're welcome tbh :lol

[timvp]

No dodging.


.

https://media.giphy.com/media/13PBOiVnRnbuZa/source.gif


He didn't even need a timeout to roll out this gemSo your example is something that disproves your theory? Weird decision, tbh.


The edgelords are a big reason why this place isn't reddit.com/r/spurstalk so you're welcome tbh :lolWell, I am posting in this thread, aren't I, Tim?

[Joseph Kony]

For the pOp ShOuLd cHaLlEnGe edgelords out there, what do you think about this call against Lou Williams not being reversed?

1192340413341814784

:lol

So a call gets reversed and that vindicates our coaches senility? so we should just never challenge a call in fear it gets reversed? :lol you're better than that tbh...

[timvp]

So a call gets reversed and that vindicates our coaches senility? so we should just never challenge a call in fear it gets reversed? :lol you're better than that tbh...

Try again, tbh.

[DPG21920]

It's actually a 36% chance, tbh. The 50% was the probability of having a call overturned in a 7-game stretch. Obviously, not a big deal outside of the edgelord delusions.



"I'm not going to try on defense or concentrate on this three-pointer because Pop isn't winning challenges!" - thought no Spurs player this year


Why are you creating this straw man?

You are just making that stuff up. Do you think the team as whole is giving supreme effort and playing focus and engaged this season? Do you think Pop has been truly engaged and focused?

No one is saying players will not try due to challenges; we are saying the lack of challenges seems to be a symptom of an overall lack of engagement even if the act itself might not impact any outcomes. I don’t think it’s that hard; you may not agree, but its like a player not paying attention in the huddle during a timeout in the 1Q. Does that mean the player isn’t going to try the rest of the game or that it’s the biggest issue facing the team? No, but it’s a sign of engagement.

Mine was an obvious joke, but it’s not a straw man considering Pop is actually yanking Lonnie and chastising him and no one else.

[DPG21920]

Do edgelords find it weird that Pop is starting Trey Lyles, which goes against all of edgelord doctrine that says Pop only plays old players or "his" players or however the narrative goes? Real Q.

So you think a 10% chance of a random play being overturned is worth more than a timeout, particularly in the second half? Questionable strategy, even before digging any deeper than that, tbh.

So we have one example (Lyles) getting minutes to disprove some “theory” but the playing of Mils, Beli and less White/Murray, which is more prevalent doesn’t lend credence to that mindset?

[Mugen]

https://media.giphy.com/media/13PBOiVnRnbuZa/source.gif

So your example is something that disproves your theory? Weird decision, tbh.

Well, I am posting in this thread, aren't I, Tim?

Use the search function(:lol) - Age/Experience have nothing to do with it, I've hated on Bryn for a while now and last I checked that loser is pretty young. It doesn't surprise me that Lyles is starting since him sucking on a basketball court + buying into the team culture punched his ticket to the starting lineup w/ the old man.

Speaking of dodging, do you think Pop will/should challenge a call this entire season? Or are you saying that you'd rather have an extra timeout instead of a possible 4-6 point swing?

[timvp]

You are just making that stuff up.What am I making up? You were the one making up some scenario about Walker. I'm just pointing at stats, tbh.


Do you think the team as whole is giving supreme effort and playing focus and engaged this season?I haven't argued that they are -- I've pointed out that it's weird to blame that on cHaLlEnGes.


we are saying the lack of challenges seems to be a symptom of an overall lack of engagement even if the act itself might not impact any outcomes.In less than a third of games has a coach used a challenge. Does that mean ~70% of the time NBA coaches lack engagement?


I don’t think it’s that hard; you may not agree, but its like a player not paying attention in the huddle during a timeout in the 1Q. Does that mean the player isn’t going to try the rest of the game or that it’s the biggest issue facing the team? No, but it’s a sign of engagement."Whether a coach is engaged is based on if he uses a challenge." Weird theory but I guess we'll see how that plays out.

[Mugen]

:lol Nobody is blaming the lack of challenges for why the team looks like shit.

[DPG21920]

What am I making up? You were the one making up some scenario about Walker. I'm just pointing at stats, tbh.

I haven't argued that they are -- I've pointed out that it's weird to blame that on cHaLlEnGes.

In less than a third of games has a coach used a challenge. Does that mean ~70% of the time NBA coaches lack engagement?

"Whether a coach is engaged is based on if he uses a challenge." Weird theory but I guess we'll see how that plays out.

You are making up the stuff about players “saying” they are not going to try if the coach doesn’t challenge. If it were just the challenges, which you seem to be framing, then yeah, that would be silly. But 70% of the teams don’t seem to have an issue with playing hard and being engaged.

Again, it’s not that a coach is “only engaged” if he’s using a challenge. But factoring in the other issues here, we are saying if FEELS like an engagement issue.

[timvp]

Use the search function(:lol) Good idea.


I've hated on Bryn for a while now and last I checked that loser is pretty young.


Bryn's redemption arc is complete with me, it's beautiful.....

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281643&p=9957250&viewfull=1#post9957250


Hmmm. Doctrine revision isn't easy when the search function is operation.


Speaking of dodging, do you think Pop will/should challenge a call this entire season?Will he? Yes. Should he? Yes. The fact that he hasn't yet isn't statistically notable. The chances he would have used a challenge based on the rate coaches across the league are challenging calls is around 50%. In other words, it's a non-issue. If he's 0-for-20, I can get on this bandwagon with you to DPG. For now, it's an insignificant observation.


Or are you saying that you'd rather have an extra timeout instead of a possible 4-6 point swing?According to you, you'd challenge even if it had a 10% chance of being successful. That means you are valuing timeouts at about .5 points -- and that's assuming every successful challenge results in a 4-6 point swing.

BTW, a 6-point swing? You're banking on challenging made threes and hitting threes on the other end? That's a bold assumption coming from a Spurs fan :lol

[ZeusWillJudge]

For the pOp ShOuLd cHaLlEnGe edgelords out there, what do you think about this call against Lou Williams not being reversed?



:lol



Of all the things to question Pop about, not participating in this dumbass challenge system isn't on of them. I had seen that clip of Bledsoe leaning in and then throwing his head back. I'm not sure there was even any contact. If they can't overturn based on that, screw 'em. Just play the game and quit thinking about it.

[timvp]

:lol Nobody is blaming the lack of challenges for why the team looks like shit.

Are we reading the same thread about "lack of engagement" caused by lack of challenges?

[TD 21]

Bogans and Cunningham were both old so they fit the edgelord doctrine. Repeat, does the fact Lyles is young and inexperienced cause a philosophical dilemma for edgelords? No dodging.

Stats say Pop draws up some of the most effective plays out of timeouts. And it's been that way for years.

Lyles had played 4 seasons and logged 5051 minutes entering this season. That's about the average NBA career, so he no longer qualifies as "young and inexperienced"; he's more like a young veteran. He's also ostensibly the default starter considering: 1) Aldridge-Poeltl are untenable, 2) Their determination to make Gay a bench scorer, 3) Their desire to start as traditionally as they can get away with, which rules out Carroll.

I don't remember the writer/season, but it was a few seasons ago and the numbers on him weren't what the reputation suggests (granted, they didn't encompass the entirety of his tenure).

[spurraider21]

:lmao pop has no problems calling timeouts when the other team goes on a 4-0 run... has no problem committing technicals and giving the other team points to complain about calls, but suddenly we're drawing the line at using a challenge every now and again because the risk of losing a timeout is so great?

[timvp]

You are making up the stuff about players “saying” they are not going to try if the coach doesn’t challenge.I'm not the one equating challenges to engagement.


we are saying if FEELS like an engagement issue.A coach not using a challenge contributes to you FEELING like he's not engaged? Interesting hypothesis but I disagree considering the numbers don't point to it being significant yet.

[DPG21920]

Are we reading the same thread about "lack of engagement" caused by lack of challenges?

Lack of engagement is why the team looks bad. Challenges are not the sole issue of that. It’s one of many observations as to finding out why and that from an appearances perspective (whether valid or measurable) it comes off that way (to me, can’t speak for others).

[DPG21920]

I'm not the one equating challenges to engagement.

A coach not using a challenge contributes to you FEELING like he's not engaged? Interesting hypothesis but I disagree considering the numbers don't point to it being significant yet.

A coach playing Beli, Mills and not playing White/Murray (less Murray due to mins restriction) contributes to me feeling like he’s not engaged. Poor irrational rotations and not calling out LMA or others for a completely unacceptable effort level contributes to me feeling like he’s not engaged.

Him not challenging? Yeah, it adds to that feeling to me that he’s just not fully engaged.

[timvp]

Him not challenging? Yeah, it adds to that feeling to me that he’s just not fully engaged.Alright, that's what I've been saying. Thanks for clearing it up :tu

[Mugen]

Hmmm. Doctrine revision isn't easy when the search function is operation.

:lol Props for finding my 1 positive Bryn quote tbh. Apparently Trey Lyles getting a few minutes less than DWhite per game means Pop plays his "guys" is an invalid take now.


Will he? Yes. Should he? Yes. The fact that he hasn't yet isn't statistically notable. The chances he would have used a challenge based on the rate coaches across the league are challenging calls is around 50%. In other words, it's a non-issue. If he's 0-for-20, I can get on this bandwagon with you to DPG. For now, it's an insignificant observation.

According to you, you'd challenge even if it had a 10% chance of being successful. That means you are valuing timeouts at about .5 points -- and that's assuming every successful challenge results in a 4-6 point swing.

BTW, a 6-point swing? You're banking on challenging made threes and hitting threes on the other end? That's a bold assumption coming from a Spurs fan :lol


Noted regarding Game 20 (though 1/4 through the season seems a little crazy to me but it's your site :lol). I'm genuinely curious to see whether he actually does challenge tbh. I'll be happy to eat crow on that.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Why does Pop preach defense and then goes and plays Patty Mills, Marco Belinelli and other bad defenders heavy minutes? Even sometimes making them guard the best offensive player on the other team?

[Leetonidas]

I don't think DPG is saying lack of challenges are the reason the team is uncompetitive but rather a symptom of it. And I agree. Coach has no fire anymore and the fact that he won't even stick up for his players and challenge a single call is a symptom of the overall disengagement. Pop is seriously just mailing it in right now

[Mugen]

Why does Pop preach defense and then goes and plays Patty Mills, Marco Belinelli and other bad defenders heavy minutes? Even sometimes making them guard the best offensive player on the other team?

Patty on Young was gold tbh. :lol

[NASpurs]

Why does Pop preach defense and then goes and plays Patty Mills, Marco Belinelli and other bad defenders heavy minutes? Even sometimes making them guard the best offensive player on the other team?

Not only heavy minutes but plays those losers together.

pattyguardingdurant.jpg

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Patty on Young was gold tbh. :lol

Fucking DeRozan was guarding Anthony Davis :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Why does Pop preach defense and then goes and plays Patty Mills, Marco Belinelli and other bad defenders heavy minutes? Even sometimes making them guard the best offensive player on the other team?

that part

[Leetonidas]

Why does Pop preach defense and then goes and plays Patty Mills, Marco Belinelli and other bad defenders heavy minutes? Even sometimes making them guard the best offensive player on the other team?

bEcAuSe ThEyRe FlOoR sPaCeRs

[Mugen]

Fucking DeRozan was guarding Anthony Davis :lol

:lmao Holy shit I had already forgotten about that. Jesus Christ.

[r0drig0lac]

Why does Pop preach defense and then goes and plays Patty Mills, Marco Belinelli and other bad defenders heavy minutes? Even sometimes making them guard the best offensive player on the other team?

Million Dollar Question

[Mugen]

All I know is if Pop is in my face and benching me for missing a rotation the 30 seconds I'm out there...and I look out on the court and see Patty Belinelli get absolutely roasted possession after possession with absolute zero repercussion....

Or if I kept hearing whether directly or through the media..."I wish he could just be more like Manu or TP"...

I'd probably say fuck off, old man. :lol

The schtick gets old tbh.

[spurraider21]

All I know is if Pop is in my face and benching me for missing a rotation the 30 seconds I'm out there...and I look out on the court and see Patty Belinelli get absolutely roasted possession after possession with absolute zero repercussion....

Or if I kept hearing whether directly or through the media..."I wish he could just be more like Manu or TP"...

I'd probably say fuck off, old man. :lol

The schtick gets old tbh.
:lmao

[spurraider21]

not a question, but

https://i.gyazo.com/fe48c30f279f50f530d073f2628e2bb4.png

cant wait for the inevitable "yeah but did you see lonnie in those 53 seconds? he didnt fight through enough screens. NON COMPETITIVE"

[TheRemix]

Why does Pop preach defense and then goes and plays Patty Mills, Marco Belinelli and other bad defenders heavy minutes? Even sometimes making them guard the best offensive player on the other team?

[Mugen]

Has Dejounte closed a game tbh? Outside of him playing that last defensive possession against the Wizards, I can't remember him playing in the last 2-3 minutes of any other game. Could be wrong but if not, seems weird tbh.

[Robz4000]

not a question, but

https://i.gyazo.com/fe48c30f279f50f530d073f2628e2bb4.png

cant wait for the inevitable "yeah but did you see lonnie in those 53 seconds? he didnt fight through enough screens. NON COMPETITIVE"

That's disgusting.

[spurraider21]

Has Dejounte closed a game tbh? Outside of him playing that last defensive possession against the Wizards, I can't remember him playing in the last 2-3 minutes of any other game. Could be wrong but if not, seems weird tbh.
:pop: these crucial minutes aren't for dejounte :pop:

[ElNono]

I can answer some of these...


It's been 7 games, why hasn't Pop challenged a single call yet this season? Will he challenge one all season?

J_Paco: He won five rings. He'll call a challenge whenever he wants and it will be the best damn challenge the league has ever seen. Thank god you armchair coaches can't challenge calls.


Why has Demarre Carroll played a total of 11 minutes over 7 games when the Spurs gave him 3 years/21 million this summer?

DPG21920: Because it wouldn't be fair to Marco, who is an NBA champion, and Carroll is new. We all know Pop likes to bring them slowly, like when he nailed the Golden God to the bench for a season, but in the end it all worked out. I'm also really tall.

[dbestpro]

Pop has always seen himself as being a great motivator pushing the right buttons for the right people. This year he seems to have completely the opposite effect and may lose most of the players by seasons end.

[Mugen]

I can answer some of these...



J_Paco: He won five rings. He'll call a challenge whenever he wants and it will be the best damn challenge the league has ever seen. Thank god you armchair coaches can't challenge calls.



DPG21920: Because it wouldn't be fair to Marco, who is an NBA champion, and Carroll is new. We all know Pop likes to bring them slowly, like when he nailed the Golden God to the bench for a season, but in the end it all worked out. I'm also really tall.

:lol

My man Deeps has been anti-Sniff so far this year, to his credit watching Big Balls Beli out there will do that to most people tbh.

[ElNono]

:lol

My man Deeps has been anti-Sniff so far this year, to his credit watching Big Balls Beli out there will do that to most people tbh.

That's true... plus DPG is my guy, he'll recognize the humor quickly.

[Mugen]

timvp - Some questions:

1) Why was Demarre Caroll signed? They seem to view him as a PF only so why waste money on him if they had Gay and were looking at Morris and eventually Lyles? If they don't think he's exclusively a 4, why hasn't he gotten any of Beli's minutes since going 2 for 2 from deep against Boston?

2) Do you really think that the reason White and Murray haven't played together is that White is on a minutes restriction as well (like the Sniffers have said)? It's weird that they haven't announced that if so. Do you think there's a chance Pop doesn't go with that lineup until they are either out of the playoff race or a half away from being eliminated?

[offset formation]

It is disappointing effort at times. The rotations seem fucked.

Not sure how this shakes out but if something doesn't get the course corrected soon, I might even start saying it's time to move on from DeRozan first, then even LMA.

The lack of effort just seems to be there at times and its evident on the defensive end. This team is a shell of its former self, and I thought this year with Murray and White up front, we would see a lot of improvement.

Something has to change. And soon.

[offset formation]

timvp - Some questions:

1) Why was Demarre Caroll signed? They seem to view him as a PF only so why waste money on him if they had Gay and were looking at Morris and eventually Lyles? If they don't think he's exclusively a 4, why hasn't he gotten any of Beli's minutes since going 2 for 2 from deep against Boston?

2) Do you really think that the reason White and Murray haven't played together is that White is on a minutes restriction as well (like the Sniffers have said)? It's weird that they haven't announced that if so. Do you think there's a chance Pop doesn't go with that lineup until they are either out of the playoff race or a half away from being eliminated?

On question #2, Pop himself said in a postgame interview I saw that it would make them a better team if they could play together but he can't now due to the restrictions on Murray.

[offset formation]

I hate the way Mills just constantly fires up 3s but he has actually been more of a positive player this year than maybe even Murray. I hate DeMar being given the ball at the crunch time. I hate Murray being left about 7 feet and him not shooting the ball from the perimeter. I hate the out of control transition offense. I hate Carroll not playing. I hate Lonnie not getting some minutes if for no other reason than his athleticism. We are routinely getting out hustled by younger more athletic teams

I am getting fucking furious, the. And I am a bit of a sniffer.

[Mugen]

On question #2, Pop himself said in a postgame interview I saw that it would make them a better team if they could play together but he can't now due to the restrictions on Murray.

I'm not referring to Murray's minutes restriction. I'm talking about why White hasn't cracked 30 minutes yet this season. If White is getting 30+ minutes a game then Murray's restriction is irrelevant in the "Why aren't they playing together?" question.

[timvp]

1) Why was Demarre Caroll signed? They seem to view him as a PF only so why waste money on him if they had Gay and were looking at Morris and eventually Lyles? If they don't think he's exclusively a 4, why hasn't he gotten any of Beli's minutes since going 2 for 2 from deep against Boston?

Carroll was signed because it was obvious last year that the Spurs needed a 3/4 with defensive chops. Cunningham might have looked the part but it became quickly obvious that he wasn't up to the task.

So what has happened so far this year? Good question. The way it looks to me:

-Losing out on Morris changed the equation quite a bit. Morris gives you a bulk three-point shooter, so Belinelli could be traded/waived or whatever the Spurs were about to do with him until the Morris situation fell apart. Losing a bulk three-point shooter is a big deal on this roster and Belinelli being a bulk three-point shooter is the reason why he's playing.

-Belinelli goes from gone to backup SF, which cuts off one avenue for Carroll to get minutes. We can all argue whether Belinelli is worthy of minutes (I'd be happy if he was waived tomorrow, FWIW) but it's clear that the Spurs need shooting. They really, really need shooting. Belinelli, in theory, provides that in bulk.

-No way the Spurs signed Lyles thinking he'd be an everyday starter on Day 1. That's been a surprise to everyone. Many here thought he wasn't even worth picking up for a minimum contract. But Lyles picked up things fast, was the best fit at a position of need and is currently soaking up minutes and cutting off another avenue for Carroll to get minutes.

-It's still really early. Gay is going to miss his ~20 games. Belinelli is on the edge of getting benched a la Cunningham last year. I'm still confident that Carroll is going to have a role before too much longer. And, really, he's such a plug-and-play ready player that he'll only need a game or two to defrost.

-Spurs fans haven't updated their operating system in a while, tbh. Carroll's $7 million might sound like a lot of money but it really isn't. $7 million in today's cap would have been $1.9 million in the 1999 cap or even $3.7 million in the 2014 cap. No one would be melting down about wasted money if Gerard King wasn't playing in 1999 or Matt Bonner wasn't playing in 2014. Carroll is being paid 1/15th of the cap so it's not the big deal it sounds like when you first hear the $7,000,000 figure. That's chump change today, tbh.



2) Do you really think that the reason White and Murray haven't played together is that White is on a minutes restriction as well (like the Sniffers have said)? It's weird that they haven't announced that if so. Do you think there's a chance Pop doesn't go with that lineup until they are either out of the playoff race or a half away from being eliminated?

In training camp, Pop did mention something about making sure the guys who played in the World Cup got enough rest. He let White and Mills sit a few days during training camp.

But, yeah, he didn't announce that White is on a minutes restriction so it's tough to use that as an excuse and I haven't used that as an excuse for Pop. On one hand, it makes sense that he could be forcing himself to rest them by only allowing one to play at a time. Can't really overplay either one when it's not possible for them to combine to play more than 48 minutes and Murray is being held to 22-25 minutes (*point to head*). On the other hand, Pop could just be making repeated bad decisions. I can't tell so far.

But soon enough, once Murray's minutes restriction is relaxed, we'll get a much better idea. If Murray is playing 30 MPG and White is playing 18 MPG, Pop would need an intervention, tbh.

Do I think there's a chance Pop will wait too long to go with it? Yeah, there's that chance. I was floored when we didn't see Murray-White in the preseason so I'm not putting anything past Pop right now. Tbh, the number one thing I was looking forward to this season was watching Murray and White play defense against opposing guards. The fact that we've seen, what, like two and a half minutes of it all season hurts and will still hurt until it eventually happens -- whether it's next week, next month or when the chips are down in the first round with the Spurs facing elimination in Game 5 on the road :lol :cry :lol

[spurs10]

So I reckon before Murray is off his time restrictions we won't know how much he and White are going to play together. We are getting murdered on defense and something has to give, but it's more about not defending the basket.

[Mugen]

Carroll was signed because it was obvious last year that the Spurs needed a 3/4 with defensive chops. Cunningham might have looked the part but it became quickly obvious that he wasn't up to the task.

So what has happened so far this year? Good question. The way it looks to me:

-Losing out on Morris changed the equation quite a bit. Morris gives you a bulk three-point shooter, so Belinelli could be traded/waived or whatever the Spurs were about to do with him until the Morris situation fell apart. Losing a bulk three-point shooter is a big deal on this roster and Belinelli being a bulk three-point shooter is the reason why he's playing.

-Belinelli goes from gone to backup SF, which cuts off one avenue for Carroll to get minutes. We can all argue whether Belinelli is worthy of minutes (I'd be happy if he was waived tomorrow, FWIW) but it's clear that the Spurs need shooting. They really, really need shooting. Belinelli, in theory, provides that in bulk.

-No way the Spurs signed Lyles thinking he'd be an everyday starter on Day 1. That's been a surprise to everyone. Many here thought he wasn't even worth picking up for a minimum contract. But Lyles picked up things fast, was the best fit at a position of need and is currently soaking up minutes and cutting off another avenue for Carroll to get minutes.

-It's still really early. Gay is going to miss his ~20 games. Belinelli is on the edge of getting benched a la Cunningham last year. I'm still confident that Carroll is going to have a role before too much longer. And, really, he's such a plug-and-play ready player that he'll only need a game or two to defrost.

-Spurs fans haven't updated their operating system in a while, tbh. Carroll's $7 million might sound like a lot of money but it really isn't. $7 million in today's cap would have been $1.9 million in the 1999 cap or even $3.7 million in the 2014 cap. No one would be melting down about wasted money if Gerard King wasn't playing in 1999 or Matt Bonner wasn't playing in 2014. Carroll is being paid 1/15th of the cap so it's not the big deal it sounds like when you first hear the $7,000,000 figure. That's chump change today, tbh.




In training camp, Pop did mention something about making sure the guys who played in the World Cup got enough rest. He let White and Mills sit a few days during training camp.

But, yeah, he didn't announce that White is on a minutes restriction so it's tough to use that as an excuse and I haven't used that as an excuse for Pop. On one hand, it makes sense that he could be forcing himself to rest them by only allowing one to play at a time. Can't really overplay either one when it's not possible for them to combine to play more than 48 minutes and Murray is being held to 22-25 minutes (*point to head*). On the other hand, Pop could just be making repeated bad decisions. I can't tell so far.

But soon enough, once Murray's minutes restriction is relaxed, we'll get a much better idea. If Murray is playing 30 MPG and White is playing 18 MPG, Pop would need an intervention, tbh.

Do I think there's a chance Pop will wait too long to go with it? Yeah, there's that chance. I was floored when we didn't see Murray-White in the preseason so I'm not putting anything past Pop right now. Tbh, the number one thing I was looking forward to this season was watching Murray and White play defense against opposing guards. The fact that we've seen, what, like two and a half minutes of it all season hurts and will still hurt until it eventually happens -- whether it's next week, next month or when the chips are down in the first round with the Spurs facing elimination in Game 5 on the road :lol :cry :lol

Thank you. Good points all around and god I hope you're wrong about a chance White/Murray don't play sig minutes together.
-A satisfied Edgelord.

[Kobe'sAchilles]

People need to transition their anger from Pop to Morris tbh. That mfer screwed us over. If Morris keeps his word then we trade Belli and BAM no more "why is Pop playing Belli questions." Also Morris came out and said one of the reasons why he chose the Knicks was bc it was New York vs San Antonio and he (and everybody else) would rather live in NYC. This fucked up the front office psychologically I think and is the reason why we guaranteed LMA's final year and why we were trying so hard to reach an extension with DDR. Say what you want about our culture and our success, players not wanting to live in SA is a thing (J-Kidd from 03 and Morris today) and PATFO still have the little brother mindset when it comes to that.

[timvp]

Uh oh, Pop challenged a call. Spurs to win 10 straight with their "engaged" coach . . .

[Mugen]

Uh oh, Pop challenged a call. Spurs to win 10 straight with their "engaged" coach . . .

:lol Take that Edgelords!

[Mugen]

Simple question - has this team quit on Pop already?

Sure looks like it tbh.

[spurs10]

Uh oh, Pop challenged a call. Spurs to win 10 straight with their "engaged" coach . . . :smchode:

[Mugen]

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2019/07/17/1a7abe80-5b97-43f9-82a4-7e2450d1864e/thumbnail/770x433/274d96d1d14ff354f403aa39a3ec21b4/sloan.jpg

[Joseph Kony]

:lol Take that Edgelords!
:lol

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Why does Pop preach defense and then goes and plays Patty Mills, Marco Belinelli and other bad defenders heavy minutes? Even sometimes making them guard the best offensive player on the other team?

Beli, Patty & Forbes line up in the 4th? timvp

[Mugen]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HUg6Ypas42ubkXu/giphy.gif

[TimDunkem]

:lol Take that Edgelords!

:lmao

[Joseph Kony]

Beli, Patty & Forbes line up in the 4th? timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8)

because the theoretical space these "shooters" provide is more important than the atrocious defense they actually provide

[Mugen]

"We need shooters because we constructed a 2019 roster that features two retards who can't shoot farther than 20 feet"

[FkLA]

Someone fucking tell Pop that shooters can play defense too. They're called 3&D guys.

[NASpurs]

:lol Take that Edgelords!

crofl

[Mugen]

"A coach's challenge and we saw Lonnie, Dejounte, and Derrick all play together tonight.

Don't want to hear any more from you, Edgelords."

:lol

[timvp]

:lol Take that Edgelords!

:lol

[r0drig0lac]

because the theoretical space these "shooters"who can't shoot provide is more important than the atrocious defense they actually provide

fixed

[DPG21920]

Carroll was signed because it was obvious last year that the Spurs needed a 3/4 with defensive chops. Cunningham might have looked the part but it became quickly obvious that he wasn't up to the task.

So what has happened so far this year? Good question. The way it looks to me:

-Losing out on Morris changed the equation quite a bit. Morris gives you a bulk three-point shooter, so Belinelli could be traded/waived or whatever the Spurs were about to do with him until the Morris situation fell apart. Losing a bulk three-point shooter is a big deal on this roster and Belinelli being a bulk three-point shooter is the reason why he's playing.

-Belinelli goes from gone to backup SF, which cuts off one avenue for Carroll to get minutes. We can all argue whether Belinelli is worthy of minutes (I'd be happy if he was waived tomorrow, FWIW) but it's clear that the Spurs need shooting. They really, really need shooting. Belinelli, in theory, provides that in bulk.

-No way the Spurs signed Lyles thinking he'd be an everyday starter on Day 1. That's been a surprise to everyone. Many here thought he wasn't even worth picking up for a minimum contract. But Lyles picked up things fast, was the best fit at a position of need and is currently soaking up minutes and cutting off another avenue for Carroll to get minutes.

-It's still really early. Gay is going to miss his ~20 games. Belinelli is on the edge of getting benched a la Cunningham last year. I'm still confident that Carroll is going to have a role before too much longer. And, really, he's such a plug-and-play ready player that he'll only need a game or two to defrost.

-Spurs fans haven't updated their operating system in a while, tbh. Carroll's $7 million might sound like a lot of money but it really isn't. $7 million in today's cap would have been $1.9 million in the 1999 cap or even $3.7 million in the 2014 cap. No one would be melting down about wasted money if Gerard King wasn't playing in 1999 or Matt Bonner wasn't playing in 2014. Carroll is being paid 1/15th of the cap so it's not the big deal it sounds like when you first hear the $7,000,000 figure. That's chump change today, tbh.




In training camp, Pop did mention something about making sure the guys who played in the World Cup got enough rest. He let White and Mills sit a few days during training camp.

But, yeah, he didn't announce that White is on a minutes restriction so it's tough to use that as an excuse and I haven't used that as an excuse for Pop. On one hand, it makes sense that he could be forcing himself to rest them by only allowing one to play at a time. Can't really overplay either one when it's not possible for them to combine to play more than 48 minutes and Murray is being held to 22-25 minutes (*point to head*). On the other hand, Pop could just be making repeated bad decisions. I can't tell so far.

But soon enough, once Murray's minutes restriction is relaxed, we'll get a much better idea. If Murray is playing 30 MPG and White is playing 18 MPG, Pop would need an intervention, tbh.

Do I think there's a chance Pop will wait too long to go with it? Yeah, there's that chance. I was floored when we didn't see Murray-White in the preseason so I'm not putting anything past Pop right now. Tbh, the number one thing I was looking forward to this season was watching Murray and White play defense against opposing guards. The fact that we've seen, what, like two and a half minutes of it all season hurts and will still hurt until it eventually happens -- whether it's next week, next month or when the chips are down in the first round with the Spurs facing elimination in Game 5 on the road :lol :cry :lol

The money Carroll makes is not why people are upset (IMO). It’s not that. It’s that everyone wanted a “win now” team to improve and SA refused to make any trades so the MLE was the only avenue to improve and they used it on a guy..........who can’t crack the rotation on a medicore team? Over Beli?

Has nothing to do with the dollar amount and more about that he represents the Spurs truly half assed approach the past couple years. They had a full season last year to evaluate DeRozan/LMA and their response to THEIR decision to choose a DeRozan led package was to stand mostly pat and sign Carroll?

Ok, but that is not very good front officing, do you agree? I don’t blame them for Morris, but this is a results business and quite frankly they have built a pretty crappy roster compounded by a team with no leadership, coach or otherwise it appears.

[Mugen]

I'm planting this stake in the ground tbh:

1) They've quit on Pop
2) Becky would get more out of them.

What a fucking sad timeline....

[RC_Drunkford]

Why are we starting 2 3rd stringers while a legit starter is collecting DNPs?

[DPG21920]

Was nice to see Pop off the bench and lifting his arms - glad hes’ getting some cardio in. Hopefully he will start taking responsibility for the roster he built, the rotations he chooses and make some changes to this unacceptable level of defense he preaches so feverishly about.

If he’s more than words, then it’s time to take actions and show you aren’t just going through the motions.

[timvp]

The money Carroll makes is not why people are upset (IMO). It’s not that. It’s that everyone wanted a “win now” team to improve and SA refused to make any trades so the MLE was the only avenue to improve and they used it on a guy..........who can’t crack the rotation on a medicore team? Over Beli?

Has nothing to do with the dollar amount and more about that he represents the Spurs truly half assed approach the past couple years. They had a full season last year to evaluate DeRozan/LMA and their response to THEIR decision to choose a DeRozan led package was to stand mostly pat and sign Carroll?

Ok, but that is not very good front officing, do you agree? I don’t blame them for Morris, but this is a results business and quite frankly they have built a pretty crappy roster compounded by a team with no leadership, coach or otherwise it appears.

Carroll was not signed with the MLE. Morris was.


I'm planting this stake in the ground tbh:

1) They've quit on Pop
2) Becky would get more out of them.

What a fucking sad timeline....

*Need to say E-word intensifying*

[spurraider21]

Carroll was not signed with the MLE. Morris was.



*Need to say E-word intensifying*
They were originally using mle funds on Carroll. They then changed course and used the trade exception when they thought Morris was happening.

[DPG21920]

Carroll was not signed with the MLE. Morris was.



*Need to say E-word intensifying*

Sorry, you are correct. I forgot that he was the MLE player, but then Morris happened so they were able to make that deal. Still, point remains overall, but it’s MLE type money.

[Mugen]

*Need to say E-word intensifying*

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/10/29/1446115807156/73c8e095-0d12-484f-ae41-f8a26cf41834-1020x612.jpeg?width=300&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/10/29/1446115807156/73c8e095-0d12-484f-ae41-f8a26cf41834-1020x612.jpeg?width=300&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&

[Mugen]

In all seriousness, saying this team has quit on Pop isn't a hot take like at all tbh.

[DPG21920]

But besides correcting a technicality, nothing to address the overarching point timvp? The money Carroll was signed with was not the critical part; it was that SA (run by Pop) chose DeRozan. They chose “win-now”. And now? What have they done to justify that decision?

[DPG21920]

It’s not like most rational Spurs fans want to call out Pop and the team. It would be one thing if this team was making strides, being competitive and just losing games on a tough schedule.

It’s the irrational coaching, the getting blown out and the complete lack of defense or competitive spirit that leads to these questions and do people not agree that these are justifiable questions based on the actual results?

You lose games, ok. But to just have so many games/halves/quarters where you completely quit and disengage is not acceptable at any level let alone for the Spurs.

[timvp]

In all seriousness, saying this team has quit on Pop isn't a hot take like at all tbh.

True, by definition. The only sniffer who even dares to enter this thread is me and even I'm not going to challenge you on it, tbh. I think the Spurs problems are deeping than coaching and a lot of it is Spurs fans adjusting to how the real NBA operates outside of the Big Three dreamland we lived in for two decades ... but, I mean, blaming Pop is what about 90% of ST does. Pretty cold take given the company, tbh.

[timvp]

But besides correcting a technicality, nothing to address the overarching point timvp? The money Carroll was signed with was not the critical part; it was that SA (run by Pop) chose DeRozan. They chose “win-now”. And now? What have they done to justify that decision?


It’s not like most rational Spurs fans want to call out Pop and the team. It would be one thing if this team was making strides, being competitive and just losing games on a tough schedule.

It’s the irrational coaching, the getting blown out and the complete lack of defense or competitive spirit that leads to these questions and do people not agree that these are justifiable questions based on the actual results?

You lose games, ok. But to just have so many games/halves/quarters where you completely quit and disengage is not acceptable at any level let alone for the Spurs.

Welcome to the real NBA, tbh. Winning is hard, especially when you don't have a superstar.

Question: If the best basketball coach in the world were coaching the Spurs, how much of a difference would it make? Would these Spurs be championship contenders?

IMO, you guys are putting too much stock in ambiguous theories like "not enough engagement", "need more competitive fire", "team quit on the coach", etc. This is what it's like when the NBA team you root for doesn't have a superstar or anything close to a superstar, tbh.

[DPG21920]

True, by definition. The only sniffer who even dares to enter this thread is me and even I'm not going to challenge you on it, tbh. I think the Spurs problems are deeping than coaching and a lot of it is Spurs fans adjusting to how the real NBA operates outside of the Big Three dreamland we lived in for two decades ... but, I mean, blaming Pop is what about 90% of ST does. Pretty cold take given the company, tbh.

Wait....a few questions:

1) Who chose DeRozan over possible younger players and/or draft picks when Kawhi demanded a trade?

2) Who chose Mills, Beli and other vets in free agency?

3) Who dictates the playing time and is cobbling together the rotations to maximize what talent is on the roster?

4) Who made free agency decisions after this last season after seeing what they had in DeRozan/LMA combo?

No doubt that the talent on this team is a major issue and at some level no amount of coaching can make Mills/Forbes/Derozan/Beli good defenders. That is for sure and only so much to scheme.

But how did we get to this point and who has been making the decisions on playing time and roster construction and what deeper problem do you see?

Because the year Kawhi sat out, the team fought. They were fun to watch and we all knew they were not ultra talented or a real contender. That is the real NBA.

[TheGreatYacht]

Can’t believe the lead seat sniffer raybies has yet to answer one of these fine questions

[DPG21920]

Welcome to the real NBA, tbh. Winning is hard, especially when you don't have a superstar.

Question: If the best basketball coach in the world were coaching the Spurs, how much of a difference would it make? Would these Spurs be championship contenders?

IMO, you guys are putting too much stock in ambiguous theories like "not enough engagement", "need more competitive fire", "team quit on the coach", etc. This is what it's like when the NBA team you root for doesn't have a superstar or anything close to a superstar, tbh.


I disagree some....Even with bad teams, you see a difference. You see the teams that are just really bad and quit and aren’t competitive and their whole organization is a nightmare (Knicks, etc..). Then you see other teams that are bad record wise, but you don’t question their fight or effort; just the time needed for them to grow and build.

No one (at least not me) is asking for them to be legit contenders; that is unreasonable. But to be competitive most nights? Yeah, I think this team has the talent to do that with better coaching and leadership.

If you don’t have that, then you have to make moves and pick a direction. But it all goes back to who made these decisions? Who chose DeRozan? Who decided not to offer up future picks to get more aggressive in the trade market and add talent and make moves to build a better roster?

Or the opposite - who decided to not move LMA or DeRozan to accumulate more picks/young players even if not spectacular? Because this right here is literally worst case scenario. You have a team that has no fight, no ceiling and is turning fans off majorly while embarrassing themselves nightly.

[Mugen]

True, by definition. The only sniffer who even dares to enter this thread is me and even I'm not going to challenge you on it, tbh. I think the Spurs problems are deeping than coaching and a lot of it is Spurs fans adjusting to how the real NBA operates outside of the Big Three dreamland we lived in for two decades ... but, I mean, blaming Pop is what about 90% of ST does. Pretty cold take given the company, tbh.

Deeper than coaching? So you mean Pop the exec? Because he put this team together tbh.

[timvp]

Wait....a few questions:

1) Who chose DeRozan over possible younger players and/or draft picks when Kawhi demanded a trade?

2) Who chose Mills, Beli and other vets in free agency?

3) Who dictates the playing time and is cobbling together the rotations to maximize what talent is on the roster?

4) Who made free agency decisions after this last season after seeing what they had in DeRozan/LMA combo?

No doubt that the talent on this team is a major issue and at some level no amount of coaching can make Mills/Forbes/Derozan/Beli good defenders. That is for sure and only so much to scheme.

But how did we get to this point and who has been making the decisions on playing time and roster construction and what deeper problem do you see

You want me to answer the rhetorical questions, tbh?

Bottom line is the Spurs would be going on their 30th year of sustained championship aspirations if the Nephew situation didn't blow up. The Spurs' front office had somehow managed to keep the Spurs in championship contention even after the Big Three Era ended -- until Nephew wanted to go home. That's amazing, tbh. No one thought the championship window could extend that far. Not the sniffiest of the sniffers would have believed that.

But Neph wanted out and that ended the championship window after 29 years or whatever it was. Who the Spurs signed with the MLE or which trade they took when losing their superstar? What difference, at this point, does it make?

[timvp]

I disagree some....Even with bad teams, you see a difference. You see the teams that are just really bad and quit and aren’t competitive and their whole organization is a nightmare (Knicks, etc..). Then you see other teams that are bad record wise, but you don’t question their fight or effort; just the time needed for them to grow and build.

No one (at least not me) is asking for them to be legit contenders; that is unreasonable. But to be competitive most nights? Yeah, I think this team has the talent to do that with better coaching and leadership.

If you don’t have that, then you have to make moves and pick a direction. But it all goes back to who made these decisions? Who chose DeRozan? Who decided not to offer up future picks to get more aggressive in the trade market and add talent and make moves to build a better roster?

Or the opposite - who decided to not move LMA or DeRozan to accumulate more picks/young players even if not spectacular? Because this right here is literally worst case scenario. You have a team that has no fight, no ceiling and is turning fans off majorly while embarrassing themselves nightly.

So the best conceivable coach wouldn't make them championship contenders? Then why all the questions? Their distance from where you think they can max out and where they are isn't that great, tbh.

[Mugen]

A team with two multi-year All Stars, veteran players like Mills/Gay/Carroll, and young promising guys...

Should not look this bad. They haven't had a good win all year.

They look listless and poorly coached tbh. Everybody out there either looks like they're going through the motions or they're playing scared. That's compounded by lineups that make absolutely no sense, I mean rookie coaches would get absolutely flamed for some of the decisions so far this year.

I would think lion's share of blame for that should be on the coach and the FO that put that roster together tbh.

[timvp]

A team with two multi-year All Stars

:lmao

I couldn't read past that, sorry.

[DPG21920]

You want me to answer the rhetorical questions, tbh?

Bottom line is the Spurs would be going on their 30th year of sustained championship aspirations if the Nephew situation didn't blow up. The Spurs' front office had somehow managed to keep the Spurs in championship contention even after the Big Three Era ended -- until Nephew wanted to go home. That's amazing, tbh. No one thought the championship window could extend that far. Not the sniffiest of the sniffers would have believed that.

But Neph wanted out and that ended the championship window after 29 years or whatever it was. Who the Spurs signed with the MLE or which trade they took when losing their superstar? What difference, at this point, does it make?

My questions are rhetorical :lol?

It makes a huge difference. You don’t get to roll over and die and embarrass yourself just because Kawhi is a snake. It’s fair to say that you both dont blame SA for Kawhi but have to hold them accountable for their post Kawhi decisions, no?

This team is embarrassing; especially on defense. They have to find their way post Kawhi - he’s gone and that unreal run they had is over; even if it’s not their fault.

So choosing DeRozan and the future of the team and who they choose in free agency matters majorly. I’m not asking them to be insta-contenders and that is not the bar.

I’m asking them to justify their decision to try and be a competitive, fringe playoff team that people can be proud to watch. Or, I am asking them to go the other way as painful as it is.

It’s no more painful than this and I’m sure it would at least be more exciting.

[Mugen]

Nobody is asking for a championship level squad tbh. That ship sailed with Kawhi.

I think the bar right now is a team that looks like it gives a fuck and coaching decisions that make a modicum of sense.

[DPG21920]

So the best conceivable coach wouldn't make them championship contenders? Then why all the questions? Their distance from where you think they can max out and where they are isn't that great, tbh.

WTF :lol? I feel like I am taking crazy pills with you. Why all the questions? Because it’s their job and they make millions and it’s a team I support.

And yes, there is a big gap in what they are now (a team that gets routinely embarrassed on top of them quitting and not being any fun to watch) and where they can max out (a 2nd round playoff team that fights hard and you can be happy supporting).

IT’s not all or nothing and that’s just a weird way to frame this considering it’s kind of what we do; discuss the team and root for them.

[DPG21920]

Like, if sa hadn’t stuck themself in neutral and made some more decisive bold moves, or even if they do that now (both trade DeRozan and change up rotations) they can make a vast improvement and that is what they should be doing.

Or they should trade DeRozan/LMa and tank and get whatever future based assets they can, agree?

I mean, I guess they can always do that at the deadline and I understand that, but this is demoralizing. There is a difference in putting up with the “real nba” knowing there is a sound plan (even if its an arduous journey with no guarantees) and this.

[Mugen]

:lmao

I couldn't read past that, sorry.

What's even funnier is that this amazing FO decided to guarantee the 2nd year of one of those All Stars when they had no reason to do so....

[DPG21920]

I just find it incredibly odd that the owner of SpursTalk, who literally writes articles and grades games is asking “why all the fuss and questions, nephew? The team sucks so what’s the point if we can’t contend anymore” :lol

[timvp]

and where they can max out (a 2nd round playoff team that fights hard and you can be happy supporting).

Damn, so the Spurs were one win away from reaching your maxed out expectations last year? And were playing worse last year than they are this year? Interesting, tbh.

[timvp]

What's even funnier is that this amazing FO decided to guarantee the 2nd year of one of those All Stars when they had no reason to do so....

It's not guaranteed yet, tbh.

[RC_Drunkford]

Welcome to the real NBA, tbh. Winning is hard, especially when you don't have a superstar.

Question: If the best basketball coach in the world were coaching the Spurs, how much of a difference would it make? Would these Spurs be championship contenders?

IMO, you guys are putting too much stock in ambiguous theories like "not enough engagement", "need more competitive fire", "team quit on the coach", etc. This is what it's like when the NBA team you root for doesn't have a superstar or anything close to a superstar, tbh.

That's not true. With the right coaching this team could easily have a 8-3 record. Especially if you factor in continuity and focus on defense. The main issue right now is coaching. Coach said focus since training camp is defense and what's the result? Bottom of the barrell defense. Why? Poor coaching and poor line ups. Keeping your better defenders on the bench while playing traffic cones is absolutely the coaches fault.
Any dumbass on the internet sees that the Spurs need to play Walker and Carroll. Shit they should probably play Keldon Jochnson too. Even Metu looks like he could help. But the old senile coach with cataracs can't see it. Last year this team was garbage on defense til they switched the schemes and started playing zone occassionally. I don't expect this to happen this time, cause this was most likely designed by Messina and Udoka. I'm not even sure if this 70-year old can see who is actually on the court.

White and Carroll have to start for Murray/Lyles. Also I would bench Forbes cause he can't guard a chair. Play DeRozan at the 2. Play Lyles with Carroll on the wings. Or Gay and Carroll. No team in the NBA would start Bryn fuckin Forbes and Trey Lyles. Not even the washed up Warriors. This is 100% on the coach

Trading away Danny Green was a major mistake, cause it left you with 2 midgets that you have to play at SG now instead of a 3-and-D guy who was on a cheaper contract than one of those midgets, but he didn't buy the team coffee so he had to go.

By the way we are still paying Pau Gasol 5 million

[Mugen]

It seems to me that a big portion of the fanbase and the organization itself is going:

"Man, the Big 3 Era was great wasn't it? Who cares what we do now"

Crazy tbh :lol

[DPG21920]

Damn, so the Spurs were one win away from reaching your maxed out expectations last year? And were playing worse last year than they are this year? Interesting, tbh.

Yes, SA was one win away from what I thought a realistic ceiling was. I think that is the same ceiling this year. But I don’t think SA was playing worse than this year.

The defense has fallen off a cliff, LmA looks checked out, Poeltl regressed and DeRozan is fluctuating between listless and lost and pretty good even if not ultra impactful.

Rudy has looked physically worse and the defense as a whole is so, so bad.

[timvp]

I just find it incredibly odd that the owner of SpursTalk, who literally writes articles and grades games is asking “why all the fuss and questions, nephew? The team sucks so what’s the point if we can’t contend anymore” :lol

You're asking me rhetorical and/or unanswerable questions. I'm happy to sniff about things I can give an opinion on, tbh.

[raybies]

Not the sniffiest of the sniffers would have believed that.


:wow now that's something to aspire to tbh

[UZER]

I just can’t believe that Pop still has this much control over the team at his age. We are still seriously having questions about the coaching strategies of a 70 year old man who still controls every micro inch of room on this team after 23 years. :lol

The dude should be gone, period. All this back and forth is pointless as long as he is still coaching the team because nobody knows what the hell he’s trying to do, not even the players, and it’s shows.

Too much discussion over “what the hell is Pop doing” instead of seeing a direction.

[DPG21920]

You're asking me rhetorical and/or unanswerable questions. I'm happy to sniff about things I can give an opinion on, tbh.

How are they unanswerable? I get you can’t quantify or measure leadership or effort. Ok, I get that.

But the team building aspect? The rotations? The minute distribution? The decision to be stuck in neutral and not either justify the win-now (Meaning competitive playoff team) mindset or go the opposite direction?

Those are valid questions that should be discussed and evaluated and judged.

[timvp]

How are they unanswerable? I get you can’t quantify or measure leadership or effort. Ok, I get that.

But the team building aspect? The rotations? The minute distribution? The decision to be stuck in neutral and not either justify the win-now (Meaning competitive playoff team) mindset or go the opposite direction?

Those are valid questions that should be discussed and evaluated and judged.

You just asked five more questions that aren't really answerable.

Since this is a Q/A thread, lay out the questions you want me to answer specifically and I'll do my best to answer what you want me to answer :tu

[SAGirl]

They were originally using mle funds on Carroll. They then changed course and used the trade exception when they thought Morris was happening.
True. Wow I had forgotten that

[DPG21920]

I guess let’s level set:

1) What do you expect from the Spurs/Front Office now that we know Kawhi is gone? Me? I expect them to expertly and honestly evaluate the team and do what is best. Either compete now and make the proper moves to do so or go for the rebuild. I don’t expect them to coast on past accomplishments and field a wildly un-fun and uncompetitive team with no upside.

2) How do Spurs fans judge the team now? What should we all be looking for? Me? I want the team to be fun. I hold no expectation that SA should lure a superstar in FA and build a contender right away. But I expect the team to be focused, prepared and battle even in losses.

3) When should we expect decisions to be made on the future of this team? Me? Now, Right Now. It’s clear the time is now. I don’t even care which direction they go; they just have to do something because this is the most unacceptable thing in the NBA - a team that can go no where without changes that doesn’t provide entertainment short term or a bright future/hope longer term.

4) Until changes can be made, what is realistic to expect from an engaged team and coach in terms of quality of play, rotations and minutes distribution?

[Mugen]

Ignore Deep's questions tbh and answer me this:

How is LJ short for Tim?

[DPG21920]

You want me to answer the rhetorical questions, tbh?

Bottom line is the Spurs would be going on their 30th year of sustained championship aspirations if the Nephew situation didn't blow up. The Spurs' front office had somehow managed to keep the Spurs in championship contention even after the Big Three Era ended -- until Nephew wanted to go home. That's amazing, tbh. No one thought the championship window could extend that far. Not the sniffiest of the sniffers would have believed that.

But Neph wanted out and that ended the championship window after 29 years or whatever it was. Who the Spurs signed with the MLE or which trade they took when losing their superstar? What difference, at this point, does it make?

And one side note; I have been traditionally on the sniffer side and been accused of that so much :lol. I always usually saw the sunny side and supported the suboptimal decisions (Pau/Mills) in a bubble because I knew SA had done the impossible with keeping SA a contender post big3.

But now? Those questions I asked, in particular which trade they took and their mindset matters greatly because there is still a team to run to the best of their ability. A team I still love and want to enjoy (not just talking about wins/losses either)

[timvp]

I guess let’s level set:

1) What do you expect from the Spurs/Front Office now that we know Kawhi is gone? Me? I expect them to expertly and honestly evaluate the team and do what is best. Either compete now and make the proper moves to do so or go for the rebuild. I don’t expect them to coast on past accomplishments and field a wildly un-fun and uncompetitive team with no upside.

2) How do Spurs fans judge the team now? What should we all be looking for? Me? I want the team to be fun. I hold no expectation that SA should lure a superstar in FA and build a contender right away. But I expect the team to be focused, prepared and battle even in losses.

3) When should we expect decisions to be made on the future of this team? Me? Now, Right Now. It’s clear the time is now. I don’t even care which direction they go; they just have to do something because this is the most unacceptable thing in the NBA - a team that can go no where without changes that doesn’t provide entertainment short term or a bright future/hope longer term.

4) Until changes can be made, what is realistic to expect from an engaged team and coach in terms of quality of play, rotations and minutes distribution?

1) Good answer to your own question. I pretty much agree. However, the Spurs operate slowly. They always have -- and it has served them well. We don't know if they are trying to compete or if they are trying to go for a rebuild. Them not extending DeRozan sounds more like a slower motion rebuild. I agree with taking their time and avoiding costly blunders. Blowing it up right away doesn't help anything if the moves aren't good ones. Not all draft picks are Robinson and Duncan, so you have to have a deeper plan than simply to tear it down to the foundation.

2) Disagree with your answer. Fun? IDGAF about fun, tbh. I want the Spurs to win. And teams that "focus, prepare and battle" don't lose many games, tbh, so that's some circular logic there. I think Spurs fans should judge them on if they believe the Spurs are on the right path. Personally, I think it's tough to tell but I'm hopeful.

3) See, this is where we disagree. You want something to happen RIGHT NOW!! while I want smart moves. I don't care about the timeline of the moves. Make wise decisions; that's all I care about.

4) Well, to be fair, you said the sign of an engaged coach is one who challenges calls. That happened tonight so you must have been happy with that, I assume. This question overall though is too vague to answer. Need more specific questions unless you're expecting me to write a novel off of your writing prompt.

[TheGreatYacht]

Damn, not even the guy that gets his seat sniffed had the wrinkly balls to do a Q&A tonight.

16 second presser from Craterface

[timvp]

And one side note; I have been traditionally on the sniffer side and been accused of that so much :lol. I always usually saw the sunny side and supported the suboptimal decisions (Pau/Mills) in a bubble because I knew SA had done the impossible with keeping SA a contender post big3.

But now? Those questions I asked, in particular which trade they took and their mindset matters greatly because there is still a team to run to the best of their ability. A team I still love and want to enjoy (not just talking about wins/losses either)

No offense intended but it's easy to sniff when the team you root for is a championship contender blessed with at least one superstar. Holding onto the sniffer card when the real NBA hits is the calling card of sniffing greatness.

[SAGirl]

True, by definition. The only sniffer who even dares to enter this thread is me and even I'm not going to challenge you on it, tbh. I think the Spurs problems are deeping than coaching and a lot of it is Spurs fans adjusting to how the real NBA operates outside of the Big Three dreamland we lived in for two decades ... but, I mean, blaming Pop is what about 90% of ST does. Pretty cold take given the company, tbh.
Pop has something to do with it. They needed a rebuild but instead he chose a package based on Derozan. And chose to pay Pau and Patty and stand pat.

I don’t think he wants to coach youngins or a rebuild properly and it’s why he chose Derozan. It’s not necessarily what was best for the team long term. He’s simply too old to coach a young team through a rebuild. At his age he’s not going to coach for enough years to be able to see them through when they finally improve. He’s old. It’s time to retire. Happens to everyone eventually if you live long enough.

[timvp]

http://i.imgur.com/YPzKwxU.gif

[poopbox]

Welcome to the real NBA, tbh. Winning is hard, especially when you don't have a superstar.

Question: If the best basketball coach in the world were coaching the Spurs, how much of a difference would it make? Would these Spurs be championship contenders?

IMO, you guys are putting too much stock in ambiguous theories like "not enough engagement", "need more competitive fire", "team quit on the coach", etc. This is what it's like when the NBA team you root for doesn't have a superstar or anything close to a superstar, tbh.

It's not really any of that...it's the logical basketball sense stuff...

Like...we don't know if Lonnie Walker is good at basketball...and we need to find out if Lonnie Walker is good at basketball...because he is the highest actual draft pick we have had since Tim Duncan (not counting Kawhi since that was a trade for that pick)...but the reason why we can't find out if Lonnie Walker is good at basketball is because Pop keeps playing Marco Belinelli...who is 33 years old and on a 1 year deal...Marco is shooting career lows in 2 pointers...3 pointers...and near career lows in virtually every other basketball category...so why is he playing in front of a guy who we need to found out sooner rather than later if he can play? What is the logical sense in it? Who is the other team in the nba who has a second year first round pick sitting on the bench because they are playing a 33 year old having the worst year of his career on a 1 year deal? The answer is no one...so why are we doing it? How does playing Marco over Lonnie make us better in the short term? How does it make us better in the long term?

The nba is actually the opposite of this...in todays nba teams are very eager to play a young player in hopes that he is ready to play...so they can try to move an older more expensive player for something that is more useful to their team...so why are the spurs doing the exact opposite of that...

Why is Pop playing 3 of his 4 worst defenders after the defense went through a stretch of being atrocious? Did he think Mills, Marco, and Forbes were somehow going to make 3's and get defensive stops? They never do...so why would Pop think that?

Pop and his mad scientist lineups are nothing new...except for this time...because he is playing these mill / forbes/ belli lineups that got DESTROYED last year...so why is he doing it again right now? He has a player in Lonnie who at least will keep him from having to play his 2 worst defenders at the same time...so why is he not doing that?

[DPG21920]

1) Good answer to your own question. I pretty much agree. However, the Spurs operate slowly. They always have -- and it has served them well. We don't know if they are trying to compete or if they are trying to go for a rebuild. Them not extending DeRozan sounds more like a slower motion rebuild. I agree with taking their time and avoiding costly blunders. Blowing it up right away doesn't help anything if the moves aren't good ones. Not all draft picks are Robinson and Duncan, so you have to have a deeper plan than simply to tear it down to the foundation.

Sure, I”m not saying take the first offer in a LMA/DeRozan deal or that all picks are good. I’m saying SA’s process has cost them value in terms of blowing it up but that is still ok. Because if they aren’t going to do something to help win now, then any extra picks are better than just losing DeRozan for nothing and maybe LMA.

I know not all picks are equal, but getting assets is a good thing; losing DeRozan/LMA for nothing is very poor management. I also think that taking DeRozan over other packages is a clear signal they want to be as competitive as possible. Regardless of the extension, they choose that path, re-signed an aging Rudy and traded for an aging Carroll. There are way more signs that they prioritize being competitive now (and they have failed then).




2) Disagree with your answer. Fun? IDGAF about fun, tbh. I want the Spurs to win. And teams that "focus, prepare and battle" don't lose many games, tbh, so that's some circular logic there. I think Spurs fans should judge them on if they believe the Spurs are on the right path. Personally, I think it's tough to tell but I'm hopeful.

Fair enough. I’m not saying I want to be the Globtrotters or something, but for me personally, yeah, watching Murray/White/Lonnie and a team that competes is fun. I don’t agree with your assessment that teams that focus, prepare and battle can’t lose many games. Even younger, exciting teams lose many games; that does not mean that they didn’t compete and focus most nights. Sometimes there are just growing pains and you expect that with younger guys with upside.

I want to win too and that is the most fun thing; I”m saying watching the team lose and with HOW they lose is not fun. If White/Murray/Lonnie were out there and SA was losing but they were flying around and locking guys up for long stretches, yeah, that’s still fun for me.


3) See, this is where we disagree. You want something to happen RIGHT NOW!! while I want smart moves. I don't care about the timeline of the moves. Make wise decisions; that's all I care about.

I want something to happen right now because this is a disaster. If Pop were being rational and everyone was engaged (LMA, Pop, DeRozan) then I would be more patient. But do you not agree that something seems really wrong and that something needs to change? You want to slog through an entire season of this and lose DeRozan and maybe LMA for nothing?

There is a difference in panic and honest assessment. I don’t think SA was honest with their assessment of this team and it’s showing up now.

And by your logic, would trading for DeRozan, re-signing Gay and all of that not classify as....not smart at this point?


4) Well, to be fair, you said the sign of an engaged coach is one who challenges calls. That happened tonight so you must have been happy with that, I assume. This question overall though is too vague to answer. Need more specific questions unless you're expecting me to write a novel off of your writing prompt.

That’s not what I said; it’s PART of what I said and it was on the smaller end of what I thought to be an engaged coach. To be more specific: with how things are playing out right now (the level of defense, the losses, etc..), do you think there should be immediate lineup changes based on performance? More importantly, whether Pop does it or not, should he be playing Lonnie and White and Murray more and together?

[DPG21920]

No offense intended but it's easy to sniff when the team you root for is a championship contender blessed with at least one superstar. Holding onto the sniffer card when the real NBA hits is the calling card of sniffing greatness.


:lol - Based on ST I don’t know that I can agree with you on that one. Even when winning, there seemed to be more haters of TP, Manu and/or PATFO than sniffers tbh...

[SAGirl]

:pop: it’s just basketball

[ZeusWillJudge]

The universe is bigger than just haters and sniffers. That reductionist approach has worn pretty thin.

Ultimately Pop calls the shots, and has for quite a while. It may be collaborative, but nothing has gotten done over his dead body. That's a two-edged sword. He has gotten a LOT of credit for good things - he's got to be given responsibility for the bad.

The Spurs (Pop) failed to navigate the new salary cap realities effectively, and kept this team in salary cap jail for too long, while the overall talent level dropped. Any way you look at it, the Pau and Patty contracts were bad and costly.

The Spurs (Pop) failed to adapt to the way the game is being played and called. They continued to bring in players that were lesser versions of the same old style of play that used to work but won't anymore.

The Spurs (Pop) failed to accept the fact that you can't go forever without rebuilding. All the other teams in the league get regular talent infusions from the draft that you just cant get down in the mid to late 20's. We congratulate them for finding guys like George Hill at 26. But that same draft had Derrick Rose, and Westbrook, and Love, and Gallinari, and a bunch more. Those teams didn't have to use any draft genius to get better players than Hill. And while Kawhi was a steal at 15, the Spurs still had to give up their genius George Hill pick to get him. Instead of adding talent to talent, they got an upgrade.
Over a couple of decades, that disparity is a drain.

The point is, they should have bitten the bullet on rebuilding. They didn't, and that is ultimately on Pop. The problem now is that they delayed too long, and they just don't have much in the way of trade value to try and get pieces to complement a lottery player. They could have gotten value from players to faciliate a rebuild. Now they just about have to take things down to bare metal and build from there.

I blame a lot of that on Pop's arrogance and hard-headedness. That's one of the things about you humans - your greatest strengths can also be your greatest weaknesses.

[Dennis the Menace]

Pop has something to do with it. They needed a rebuild but instead he chose a package based on Derozan. And chose to pay Pau and Patty and stand pat.

I don’t think he wants to coach youngins or a rebuild properly and it’s why he chose Derozan. It’s not necessarily what was best for the team long term. He’s simply too old to coach a young team through a rebuild. At his age he’s not going to coach for enough years to be able to see them through when they finally improve. He’s old. It’s time to retire. Happens to everyone eventually if you live long enough.

Preach. Pop has placed his legacy over what’s best for the organization. That’s a fire-able offense

[spurs10]

i can't tell if it's just that they aren't engaged enough or if they really are giving it their all and it ain't enough. I'm back to wondering if there is something we don't know about again. I thought that before the LMA 'I can't miss' game and then thought I had jumped to conclusions. This three game skid feels different. They weren't playing with any urgency by the looks of it.

[spurraider21]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HUg6Ypas42ubkXu/giphy.gif
https://media3.giphy.com/media/3o72F7Yl8y35V5gCZO/giphy.gif

[Mugen]

Sniffer Question - How many losses before you think Pop should do something about the lineups/rotations?

[Barfunk]

Sniffer Question - How many losses before you think Pop should do something about the lineups/rotations?

Lol gotta admit the the whole sniffer thing is pretty funny

[timvp]

Sniffer Question - How many losses before you think Pop should do something about the lineups/rotations?

Eh, will be between one and two weeks, IMO. Didn't he finally stop starting Cunningham a few days after Thanksgiving last year? Steve Smith got the hook pretty early too in 2003 but not instantly.

[DPG21920]

Eh, will be between one and two weeks, IMO. Didn't he finally stop starting Cunningham a few days after Thanksgiving last year? Steve Smith got the hook pretty early too in 2003 but not instantly.

Regardless of what Pop will do, what do you think he should do.

[DPG21920]

Side note: have not seen any data, but it feels like DeRozan has been the worst crunch time player in the league this year. Unmitigated disaster.

[timvp]

Regardless of what Pop will do, what do you think he should do.Start by playing Murray and White more and stop playing Patty at PG. Then cut Belinelli out and replace with either DeMarre or LWIV?

HBY?


Side note: have not seen any data, but it feels like DeRozan has been the worst crunch time player in the league this year. Unmitigated disaster.

What's weird is he was a crunch time killer with the Raptors in his last couple years there.

[objective]

Eh, will be between one and two weeks, IMO. Didn't he finally stop starting Cunningham a few days after Thanksgiving last year? Steve Smith got the hook pretty early too in 2003 but not instantly.

without Steve Smith getting hurt and missing games 2 through 9, I doubt Jackson ever gets the chance to play big minutes and worm his way into relevancy

I don't know if any amount of losing by itself would do the trick. If Marco or Mills or DeMar missed 8 straight games, then it would be a real opportunity to see what Walker or Carroll could have to offer, not just in one-off stints like has happened so far

[DPG21920]

Start by playing Murray and White more and stop playing Patty at PG. Then cut Belinelli out and replace with either DeMarre or LWIV?

HBY?


Agreed. I’d look at starting White too, not just playing them more (that too).



What's weird is he was a crunch time killer with the Raptors in his last couple years there.

Yup. Heck, I feel even last year he was solid enough. This year? Not only has he been bad - it’s like he’s being paid to throw games.

[Mugen]

Eh, will be between one and two weeks, IMO. Didn't he finally stop starting Cunningham a few days after Thanksgiving last year? Steve Smith got the hook pretty early too in 2003 but not instantly.


Start by playing Murray and White more and stop playing Patty at PG. Then cut Belinelli out and replace with either DeMarre or LWIV

Nice.

Pretty novel ideas there, sounds a lot like what a bunch of edgelords have been calling for. But I trust the HOF coach who's been around for 20 years tbh.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Nice.

Pretty novel ideas there, sounds a lot like what a bunch of edgelords have been calling for. But I trust the HOF coach who's been around for 20 years tbh.

For the life of me I have no idea why pop is so fucking blind to the obvious.

[Mugen]

How dare any of the edgelords suggest that Pop play two of his best players at the same time and give a guy who dominated summer league a few minutes instead of a player having statistically one of the worst seasons in NBA history.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/1195470956992638978

2nd worst net rating in the entire NBA

:pop:"We have been kicking ass"

[RC_Drunkford]

Regardless of what Pop will do, what do you think he should do.

start Carroll and Rudy Gay, move DeRozan to SG. Start White at PG. Play Lonnie Walker with the bench. But even better than all of this would be ending his career and trading half the roster

[timvp]

Nice.

Pretty novel ideas there, sounds a lot like what a bunch of edgelords have been calling for. But I trust the HOF coach who's been around for 20 years tbh.

To be fair, I was calling for the same things back in preseason while you were marveling at Bryn Forbes' "redemption arc" :lmao

[sasaint]

start Carroll and Rudy Gay, move DeRozan to SG. Start White at PG. Play Lonnie Walker with the bench. But even better than all of this would be ending his career and trading half the roster

START Carroll? Hell he can't even get on the court in garbage time. He will be the first Spur to depart. I don't know how PATFO signs a free agent to 7MM/3 yrs to bury him on the bench. Didn't they talk to the guy before they signed him and realize they hated him beforehand?

[RC_Drunkford]

START Carroll? Hell he can't even get on the court in garbage time. He will be the first Spur to depart. I don't know how PATFO signs a free agent to 7MM/3 yrs to bury him on the bench. Didn't they talk to the guy before they signed him and realize they hated him beforehand?

That's on Pop. Carroll is still a better player than Lyles

[sasaint]

That's on Pop. Carroll is still a better player than Lyles

Of course it's on Pop. Signing Carroll is the weirdest FA signing EVER by PATFO. They signed a guy and immediately discovered they hated him?

[Mugen]

To be fair, I was calling for the same things back in preseason while you were marveling at Bryn Forbes' "redemption arc" :lmao

Love that your embracing your inner edgelord and twisting the narrative...But I'll own commending that loser for having a good preseason and when I was expecting him to play alongside Murray/White

Don't worry - you'll always have a place here on EdgelordTalk tbh. :lol

[timvp]

Love that your embracing your inner edgelord and twisting the narrative...But I'll own commending that loser for having a good preseason and when I was expecting him to play alongside Murray/White

Don't worry - you'll always have a place here on EdgelordTalk tbh. :lol

How is it twisting? That's literally what you said ... but with some extra flowery language added to it.

[Mugen]

How is it twisting? That's literally what you said ... but with some extra flowery language added to it.

I don't feel too strongly about that one as much as my "Pop is a senile fuck" quote. Can we pull that one up on the search bar? :lol

[timvp]

I don't feel too strongly about that one as much as my "Pop is a senile fuck" quote. Can we pull that one up on the search bar? :lol

Hold on let me fire up the gerbils to turn search back on . . .

[Mugen]

Hold on let me fire up the gerbils to turn search back on . . .

It's not Kori putting on some type of cerebro helmet a la Professor X?

[DPG21920]

Hold on let me fire up the gerbils to turn search back on . . .

Richard Gere post

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Ooh, Jesus Christ!

[JuneJive]

Ooh, Jesus Christ!

Lol

[SAGirl]

Eh, will be between one and two weeks, IMO. Didn't he finally stop starting Cunningham a few days after Thanksgiving last year? Steve Smith got the hook pretty early too in 2003 but not instantly.
What do you think will be the adjustment? Bc it probably should be not starting Forbes and he has some alternatives like Caroll, Keldon Johnson or Walker. But I cannot see Pop giving opportunities to the rook or the sophomore he has in the doghouse and I have no idea what’s up with Caroll. However Pop has alternatives, there probably will be some growing pains but he just needs to do something.

Pop could also start Murray/White.

It’s the prospect of having Forbes off the bench with Mills that’s unappealing. As such, in the current team landscape Forbes probably shouldn’t be playing. If he doesn’t start, he can’t come off the bench paired with Mills. That’s the reason Pop is not adjusting this rotation imo. He’s too reluctant to bench Forbes. Going to take a few more losses and some demoralizing ones b4 a change or Forbes has to get injured and we shall see how things look with someone else.

They probably would suffer growing pains and not be better straight away bc it’s a lineup change with new guys (and maybe young guys) But Forbes isn’t a starter for a team that wants to prioritize defense and competitiveness. It’s not that he’s a scapegoat but you have to make some adjustments.

[SAGirl]

without Steve Smith getting hurt and missing games 2 through 9, I doubt Jackson ever gets the chance to play big minutes and worm his way into relevancy

I don't know if any amount of losing by itself would do the trick. If Marco or Mills or DeMar missed 8 straight games, then it would be a real opportunity to see what Walker or Carroll could have to offer, not just in one-off stints like has happened so far
I have thought of the injury factor too. Mills and Forbes are two of the most resilient Regular season heavy minutes eaters the team has.

The chances are better for Marco to get a sore groin or something but he doesn’t strain himself too much these days.

[SAGirl]

Heck, I feel even last year he was solid enough. This year? Not only has he been bad - it’s like he’s being paid to throw games.
Good point. I remember a few wins early in the season last year when their defense was atrocious that were pulled by clutch play from Derozan. Perhaps it’s mental, not getting his extension and his fragile depressive psyche.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I feel like something had to have happened behind the scenes with Carroll and Pop. It makes zero sense that he’s barely getting even a minute a game.

[DMC]

Does anyone here think missing the playoffs is ok now because all the big 3 are retired?

Does Pop get one year where his team doesn't exceed expectations?

[Mugen]

Does anyone here think missing the playoffs is ok now because all the big 3 are retired?

Does Pop get one year where his team doesn't exceed expectations?

Sure I'll give that to him, only if it's his last year.

[DMC]

Sure I'll give that to him, only if it's his last year.

So on your list of best head coaches, which of them haven't missed the playoffs in the past 10 years? 5 years.. last year..?

[Mugen]

So on your list of best head coaches, which of them haven't missed the playoffs in the past 10 years? 5 years.. last year..?

Nick Nurse :lol

I don't care about making the playoffs. I'd be fine if the Spurs missed the playoffs if they were building towards the future and playing the young guys a ton. That ain't happening.

[Gagnrath]

If a head coach in "Today's NFL" said he refused to throw the ball at a significant higher clip than running the ball how long would he remain Employed?

This is the same thing, but Cultists of Pop on here see it a different way. Maybe they don't watch the NFL football.

Popsuckers and the MEDIA(except for Calvin on the Sports Grind) to afraid to call this TOSB out on this total embracing of being mediocre.

If Tom Belichick said it then it would go over about the same as it did when Pop said it. Same level of respect same idea.

[SayTown]

Pop used to be the old wiz in the park playing chess and now he just plays bingo in the retirement home.

[dbestpro]

Only injuries can save Pop from his own stubborness.

[LakerHater]

https://images2.imgbox.com/dd/39/CkWhyHSb_o.gif

[RC_Drunkford]

Pop used to be the old wiz in the park playing chess and now he just plays bingo in the retirement home.

:lmao:lmao:lmao spot on

[Mugen]

spurraider21 - we're almost at the end of November and the Raiders have more wins than the Spurs :lol

[ernest787]

Some of you in this thread are funny. Last year you all wanted to tank for the lottery. This year the Spurs are losing games and on this trajectory appear to be on the way to doing that and are upset about it.

There is nothing this team is going to do overnight that is going to fix this. Might as well ride this out for another few weeks and then evaluate where we are at.

[itzsoweezee]

Some of you in this thread are funny. Last year you all wanted to tank for the lottery. This year the Spurs are losing games and on this trajectory appear to be on the way to doing that and are upset about it.

There is nothing this team is going to do overnight that is going to fix this. Might as well ride this out for another few weeks and then evaluate where we are at.

Play a lineup that's at least fun to watch and plays hard. Look at the clippers last year. Those guys should not have even made the playoffs.

[Mugen]

SniffVP - Is there any other coach in the league that would have played Dejounte/Derrick this few minutes together tbh?

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Why does Pop preach defense and then goes and plays Patty Mills, Marco Belinelli and other bad defenders heavy minutes? Even sometimes making them guard the best offensive player on the other team?
Patty and Forbes on luka :lmao

[timvp]

SniffVP - Is there any other coach in the league that would have played Dejounte/Derrick this few minutes together tbh?

That's a good question. Probably not? I don't know. I guess it depends if the doctors really have them both on minutes restrictions (which hasn't been proven).

[Mugen]

The minutes restriction excuse makes no sense to me since we've seen Patty the PG many times this season even when DJ/Derrick were having pretty good games. So let's bury that.

With the defense being absolute dogshit and the losing streak at 6 games now, it has to be some kind of ego/personal thing with the old man tbh. No other reason makes sense.

[objective]

Boylen probably wouldn't play them together. Then again, he also forgot he had Kawhi Leonard on his team after he subbed him out for normal rest in the 3rd quarter.

Bulls podcasters are routinely flummoxed into cursing fits by Boylen's statements and rotations, so he's pretty much right there with Pop.

[Mugen]

Nah - no coach in the league would have not played their two best defensive guards for more than a few mins all season. Especially when a) the other guards are absolute dogshit on defense b) your team is one of the worst defensive teams in the league c) You're in the middle of a 6 game losing streak.

No other coach in the league would have given Beli this much rope when you have a serviceable 3&D player on the bench in Carroll.

No other coach would have glued a very talented guy like Lonnie to the bench esp when your team is severely lacking athleticism and a spark.

To have a coach that does all 3 is a fucking joke tbh. :lol

[sananspursfan21]

The seat smells like moth balls and Bordeaux tbh

[r0drig0lac]

The minutes restriction excuse makes no sense to me since we've seen Patty the PG many times this season even when DJ/Derrick were having pretty good games. So let's bury that.

With the defense being absolute dogshit and the losing streak at 6 games now, it has to be some kind of ego/personal thing with the old man tbh. No other reason makes sense.

Pop spent a few months taking Kawhi off the court every time he came close to scoring 30 points for no basketball reason. It's always obvious that there is an ego involved in every decision Pop makes that seems completely contrary to logic (that is, a decision that the other 29 coaches would make).

[DMC]

Pop has earned a shitty season. If he had a good one he wouldn't retire.

Look at how long the Jazz were shit after Sloan left. Ok they weren't world beaters before but they were at least fun to watch.

[MultiTroll]

timvp,
Marketing / contest idea for ST.

Do you have any connections that could allow a contest winner to have a glass of wine with Pop and sniff after a game?

[spurraider21]

Good question: why the fuck are we starting the smurfs?