Grades: Spurs @ Hawks - Nov. 5, 2019

[timvp]

https://www.spurstalk.com/grades-san-antonio-spurs-atlanta-hawks-november-5-2019/

tl;dr: What you doing, Pop?

[TimDunkem]

Belli a c minus. :lol

[tbdog]

It's time to bench beli and let him earn rotational minutes.

[NASpurs]

Holy shit, I never thought I would see the day.

Spoilers free post.

Tim is about to get his and Kori’s press credentials taken away by Pop and his goons.

[Mugen]

:wow

Serious question my guy - is this the first ever F for Pop?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Patty was the best Young defender tonight, tbh. Murray and White were worse.

Btw, how much of the questionable coaching this season can be attributed to having inexperienced assistants, or it's all on Pop? Not sure he's getting enough help, but it's difficult to judge these things from the outside.

[Mugen]

https://i.gifer.com/PfTi.gif

[Mugen]

Patty was the best Young defender tonight, tbh. Murray and White were worse.

Boy - have I got a thread for you....

[KimmyGib]

Starting to feel like Pop is unfocused/bored and resorting to odd in-game experiments. That or he's completely losing it.

Belinelli is so bad now, I can't believe he's still getting minutes. Is there a worse player in the league right now averaging over 15mpg?

[TheRemix]

:pop: "Did ya'll know NASA discovered habitable planets much like ours?"

[timvp]

Patty was the best Young defender tonight, tbh. Murray and White were worse.

https://i.gifer.com/PfTi.gif

[timtonymanu]

Sniffers on cue lol

[Mugen]

I was high on Jakob heading into this year but he's been really bad tbh.

I wonder if it's because the 2nd unit is too Rudy focused. White and Poetl have good chemistry but they both might be deferring too much to Rudy (probably by design tbh).

First unit has come out struggling a lot lately as well. Might make sense to switch Rudy and Lyles (it should be Carroll tbh) but that might make too much sense.

[tbdog]

Some changes need to happen before we go external. Obviously Carroll and possibly Walker need to be in the rotation. Also I think we really need to look at moving Forbes out of the starting line up.

[timtonymanu]

:pop: "Did ya'll know NASA discovered habitable planets much like ours?"

:pop: F grade? Give me a real analysis. Have you seen our bigot president? He deserves an F. Gee-whiz. :pop:

[Mugen]

:pop: F grade? Give me a real analysis. Have you seen our bigot president? He deserves an F. Gee-whiz. :pop:

:rollin

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Glad you held Pop accountable :tu

[NASpurs]

Sniffers on cue lol

Tim, they’re just biding their time for the Spurs to go on a fool’s gold mini win streak to come out of the woodwork.

[Mugen]

OP probably killed half of the site traffic with that F bomb tbh. But he's a man of principle not like LeMao with his Tofu Tuesdays.

Props.

[DPG21920]

Wonder if Jakob doing all the dirty work but not getting an extension is playing a role in this? He saw LMA get money despite being soft as hell.

[tbdog]

LMA is an all star calibre big. You can't compare his extension to Jakob ffs. But LMA is playing very uninteresting ball out there.

[DPG21920]

LMA is an all star calibre big. You can't compare his extension to Jakob ffs. But LMA is playing very uninteresting ball out there.

It’s not like I meant Jakob deserves LMA money; but for the same reason SA did it for LMA? There’s a mental component

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

murray looks like trash. he can only be so young for so long

[pookenstein]

I'm on the verge of starting a gofundme and collect some donations to put Beli out of his misery. Maybe ST can chip in and we can collect enough to ship his ass back to Italy.

[GreekSpursfan]

If Murray was semi decent we would've won this game combined with LMA's regression(it's becoming more and more alarming) we had no chance. I agree that Pop had a bad day at the office but you can't win without a pg and LMA, theoretically your best player, being terrible.

[Fireball]

the three point shooting is just so bad ... make 33% and you win this game

- Aldridge had a horrible first half ... get him in some pick and pop action early ... there is a better chance he catches fire early than on those baseline fadeways
- Murray is still work in progress ... he had some good minutes against the Lakers otherwise he was pretty much pedestrian in the last three games
- White was banged up ... he gets a pass from me for not being too aggressive on offense
- Rudy was awful ...
- Poeltl ... god dammit, one my favorite players last year and now where is the pick and roll action with White?
- why not play Carroll some minutes in Atlanta? really Pop?
- Belli? everything has been said ... somebody injure him please

[phxspurfan]

LMA definitely went clubbing last night

[vavvi]

I'm soooo mad.
The game was in the bag in the 3rd. You're up 10, it's a fucking Atlanta, they don't have Lebron.
Play a defensive lineup of Murray-White-DeRozan-Carroll (or Gay or Lyles)-LMA and the game is yours.

LMA looks as old as Vince Carter and afraid of physical contact.

[RC_Drunkford]

The worst thing is that Pop was actually really coaching in this game. He made the right adjustments early on after the loss to the Lakers, worked the refs, talked to the team after bad possessions, tried to establish Aldridge early, had DeRozan playmake more, etc. and the team still lost. Of course he deserves an F for putting Mills on Young in crunch time, playing the -50 Netrtg back court of Forbes/Mills and playing Belinelli. But that's to be expected from the senile idiot.
Like I said this team can lose to anybody on any given night and will have another negative road record like last year

[r0drig0lac]

Pop died for basketball after 2014 (including his bad adjustments against LAC15 and OKC16). He was lucky to have another top15 ATG in Kawhi, and that's it, but right now he makes a point of hurting the team with his rotations, I really start to believe it's purposeful.

[Thunder1]

They gave up to many easy dunks through out the game..DJ & Derick White have played better..Jakob's bad handles so far this year is perplexing..

[AussieFanKurt]

Some changes need to happen before we go external. Obviously Carroll and possibly Walker need to be in the rotation. Also I think we really need to look at moving Forbes out of the starting line up.

Agree. Start White with DJM.

[monty4329]

Patty was the best Young defender tonight, tbh. Murray and White were worse.

Btw, how much of the questionable coaching this season can be attributed to having inexperienced assistants, or it's all on Pop? Not sure he's getting enough help, but it's difficult to judge these things from the outside.

Right on point. White and Murray had a horrible day. I would still have tried Murray to close the game but I can understand Pop's decision. And frankly, the last 4 minutes were not much different from any other game: no ball movement, no shooting, poor defense.

I expressed in another comment the same worries about the coaching staff. We have what? A very unexperienced kid, Becky is there just as a PR thing, and TD who has zero experience as a coach (and doesn't seem much involved during the game anyway). I have no idea how much help in game management they can provide, but I am pretty sure it is very limited, or worse.
Say what you want about Messina and his passport but the guy knew how to run a game.

[jjktkk]

Wow how many athletic SFs does ATL have? Man they made the Spurs look small and slow on the perimeter.:depressed

[monty4329]

I guess with this game Belinelli lost most of the chances to get back on track. After those two shots he should have been on fire and confident, instead he clanked an easy shot from the corner and a layup (on a nice cut). The sad thing is we have nobody who can really shoot.

[John B]

Thanks Timvp. Good take. If there’s a lower grade than F, I would give it to Pop. The lost was on him and Aldridge. F%cking Aldridge is soft, lazy and a loser. That’s it in a nutshell. Just get that guy out of there. He has no sense of urgency. We have to get rid of his cancer attitude while early. That loser is never gonna change. Now Pop. Is he vexed on getting loses like these? Half-effort, sub-NBA standard defense showing? How many open dunks did Hawks have. Bad switching, no communications. Why get Carroll on this team, a defensive guy, if he’s not even playing? Belli? Freaking a joke. Why not manage White/Murray minutes so they can close the game? But just looking at the general offense, it’s more on iso and not really moving offense. No crisp passes, no cuts, just two-man game the most. I miss the the big 3. But come on. These guys could be playing better. And Pop needs to be more demanding on defense. That’s what Spurs is all about. Come on. I’m not about ready to give up on my Spurs. Let’s go!

Btw, great showing on Lyles. Keep shooting.

[r0drig0lac]

Wow how many athletic SFs does ATL have? Man they made the Spurs look small and slow on the perimeter.:depressed

this is the NBA since 2015, only SA runs away from this type of player

[Maddog]

I'm soooo mad.
The game was in the bag in the 3rd. You're up 10, it's a fucking Atlanta, they don't have Lebron.
Play a defensive lineup of Murray-White-DeRozan-Carroll (or Gay or Lyles)-LMA and the game is yours.

LMA looks as old as Vince Carter and afraid of physical contact.


Wow how many athletic SFs does ATL have? Man they made the Spurs look small and slow on the perimeter.:depressed

Well, it's not Atlanta of a few years ago. They have a lot of young talent. Second game in a row that the Spurs struggled against length and athleticism. It's not even 10 games in so I'm holding my breath, but there are signs this team isn't very good. And I don't think it's necessarily on the coaching staff, but several decades of drafting in the 20s and losing a franchise player with inadequate return.

I'm still not sure what to think of Murray. I love his length competitiveness, but still seems more promise than reality. Same with White- I see flashes, but in year 3 it's still flashes.
Again it's one game and still 75 to go, but I am concerned. I can see years of mediocrity on the horizon, I hope I'm wrong.

[Dex]

Starting to feel like Pop is unfocused/bored and resorting to odd in-game experiments. That or he's completely losing it.

Belinelli is so bad now, I can't believe he's still getting minutes. Is there a worse player in the league right now averaging over 15mpg?

Well there are only 4 people with a worse PER than Marco right now...and 2 of them are playing 18+ minutes (Darius Garland is playing 27 MPG for Cleveland with a PER of 1.81)

So, technically yes.

[Mugen]

Right on point. White and Murray had a horrible day. I would still have tried Murray to close the game but I can understand Pop's decision. And frankly, the last 4 minutes were not much different from any other game: no ball movement, no shooting, poor defense.

I expressed in another comment the same worries about the coaching staff. We have what? A very unexperienced kid, Becky is there just as a PR thing, and TD who has zero experience as a coach (and doesn't seem much involved during the game anyway). I have no idea how much help in game management they can provide, but I am pretty sure it is very limited, or worse.
Say what you want about Messina and his passport but the guy knew how to run a game.

:lol Anything to deflect blame from the most experienced coach in sports.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Sometimes I split hairs with your grades, but this is one time when I just want to say, "You're wrong." Beli came in, and the game went to hell. I don't care if he hit a couple of shots, that was a solid F. He may scatter a few games with decent stat lines here and there, but don't kid yourself: Marco Belinelli is the place where leads go to die.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Wonder if Jakob doing all the dirty work but not getting an extension is playing a role in this? He saw LMA get money despite being soft as hell.


That and getting kicked out of the starting lineup when he thought he earned it? Yeah, I think most humans would be affected by those things.

[SpurSpike]

That game was hard to watch, both teams were sucking it up. I was amazed the Spurs kept it that close because they looked really really bad most of this game.

[DPG21920]

Sometimes I split hairs with your grades, but this is one time when I just want to say, "You're wrong." Beli came in, and the game went to hell. I don't care if he hit a couple of shots, that was a solid F. He may scatter a few games with decent stat lines here and there, but don't kid yourself: Marco Belinelli is the place where leads go to die.

You have to understand the grades; Marco, like with Pop, is graded on a curve. If Dejounte played the same game as Beli it would be an F. But because he’s Beli and expected to do bad based on ability it was a C for his game.

[jjktkk]

this is the NBA since 2015, only SA runs away from this type of player

They actually had this type of player, but he forced his way out of town. SA doesn't really shy away from this type of player, it's just that everyone wants a 6'7 wing player that's athletic and can shoot. The Spurs need to seriously figure out a way to land a starting caliber SF.

[ZeusWillJudge]

You have to understand the grades; Marco, like with Pop, is graded on a curve. If Dejounte played the same game as Beli it would be an F. But because he’s Beli and expected to do bad based on ability it was a C for his game.

Yeah, it must be reserved for Pop and Beli - and Wombat. Because if the curve applied to everyone, then Lyles was an A-.

But it's not even a curve based on expectations. Beli killed that game. Is the expectation for him even lower than that?

[DPG21920]

Yeah, it must be reserved for Pop and Beli - and Wombat. Because if the curve applied to everyone, then Lyles was an A-.

But it's not even a curve based on expectations. Beli killed that game. Is the expectation for him even lower than that?

I believe it is, yes.

[UZER]

They actually had this type of player, but he forced his way out of town. SA doesn't really shy away from this type of player, it's just that everyone wants a 6'7 wing player that's athletic and can shoot. The Spurs need to seriously figure out a way to land a starting caliber SF.

It ain’t happening until Pop retires. They don’t want to play in this system.

[duncan2k5]

It ain’t happening until Pop retires. They don’t want to play in this system.

What system?

[jjktkk]

It ain’t happening until Pop retires. They don’t want to play in this system.

That system did make Leonard a star, so I disagree with that. But I do think they're going to have to make a similar Leonard type of trade in next years draft to get a starting caliber SF.

[duncan2k5]

That system did make Leonard a star, so I disagree with that. But I do think they're going to have to make a similar Leonard type of trade in next years draft to get a starting caliber SF.

The system didn't make Kawhi a star... Most players work themselves into becoming a star... System-made stars crumble when they play in a different system... That's not the case with Kawhi

[Kobe'sAchilles]

I was beyond wrong last year in my prediction that the Raptors would lose in the second round and the Warriors would win the title. However, I am on track of being correct this year in my prediction. I will savor these Pop bashing moments because I know this is his last year of coaching. The dude probably thought he could retire the #1 All Time winning coach, but after this shitty season, he's going to realize that the fire isn't there and it's better to retire and ride off into the sunset.

New headcoach: Manu Ginobili

[r0drig0lac]

That system did make Leonard a star, so I disagree with that. But I do think they're going to have to make a similar Leonard type of trade in next years draft to get a starting caliber SF.

what does that mean? Kawhi's talen and hard work with the SA development system made Kawhi a star (and he would be a star in any system)

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

DeRozan was the only Spur who played with any passion last night. A pretty sad display.

That said, the Spurs still could have won if Pop wasn't coaching out of his ass. That was pitiful. Timvp called it in the grades summary, and I was screaming it while watching last night...leaving Mills on Young in the fourth quarter (on top of his other questionable coaching moves during the game) was just unacceptable.

This team has plenty of talent to be competitive, but right now they look uninterested. I saw coach getting on guys during a timeout with a couple of minutes left...maybe that's when he finally awoke out of whatever stupor he was in for the first 46 minutes of the game. I love Pop...but damn.

Just sad...we can't give away games in what will be a tough, tough, playoff race...but here we go again.

[R. DeMurre]

For years, I've defended myself as a fan of the Spurs with the explanation that they play the philosophy that I believe in: defense first, ball movement, wise shot selection, good fundamentals. When the Suns and Spurs had a great rivalry during the Steve Nash/Amare years, I pointed out to my friends who were fans of the Suns that I couldn't root for a team that didn't emphasize defense, or even seem to care about defense. But it's gotten to the point now that I don't know if it can be said that the philosophy of the Spurs is even remotely defense first anymore. Truth is, I don't what the philosophy of the Spurs is... they've loaded up on redundant shooters like Beli, Forbes, and Patty but still take the fewest threes in the league. Why have weak defenders on the floor whose main strength is three point shooting, and then emphasize the low percentage mid-range game as an offensive attack? I watch Pop stubbornly refuse to play what has the potential to be the best young defensive back court in the NBA, and then put line ups of 3 or 4 poor defenders on the floor together. I watch the greatest number of minutes go to DeRozan, who has a proven 10 year track record of mediocre advanced stats, and would be better suited in a Lou Williams-like role. I watch Aldridge adamantly refuse to shoot threes in the modern era, but happily shoot 19 footers all day. With his size and release point, Aldridge could have more open looks from three than Dirk if he wanted them, but no-- he'd rather shoot just over 40% from 16 ft+... For the first time in twenty years, I just don't identify with the way the Spurs play, and it's not wins or losses, or even talent-- it's the way the game is approached.

[UZER]

That system did make Leonard a star, so I disagree with that. But I do think they're going to have to make a similar Leonard type of trade in next years draft to get a starting caliber SF.

It helped him grow into a star, but once he was a full star, it boxed him in. Look at the freedom he played with in Toronto and especially plays with now in LA.

Other players that are already stars don’t want to come here to get boxed in by Pops system and the pet players he constantly keeps around.

[jjktkk]

what does that mean? Kawhi's talen and hard work with the SA development system made Kawhi a star (and he would be a star in any system)

The system also includes the Spur's coaching staff and scouts who saw the talent in Leonard and made the move to trade for Leonard. Nobody expected Leonard to be the star he is today, but the Spurs saw something in him.

[jjktkk]

It helped him grow into a star, but once he was a full star, it boxed him in. Look at the freedom he played with in Toronto and especially plays with now in LA.

Other players that are already stars don’t want to come here to get boxed in by Pops system and the pet players he constantly keeps around.I agree that Pop needs to get rid of his pet players. Belinelli and Mills needed to go like yesterday. . But we didn't get to see how the Leonard Aldridge duo would of worked.

[BackHome]

Wonder if Jakob doing all the dirty work but not getting an extension is playing a role in this? He saw LMA get money despite being soft as hell.

That and they run no set plays for him he is a great rolling Big who should be get some easy set up dunks by our PG. In reality he should be scoring about 10pts a game pretty easy but Poop never has set plays for him.

Also Atlanta has some bouncy Centers who were dunking like crazy until Poodle came in I don’t think he gets enough appreciation for his rim protection

[SAGirl]

The system didn't make Kawhi a star... Most players work themselves into becoming a star... System-made stars crumble when they play in a different system... That's not the case with Kawhi
Getting called a system player may well be one reason for him looking to get out way b4 the actual plan was put in motion.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

kawhi was given the keys to the franchise like they had been given to duncan. kawhi was to be the system