At what point do the Spurs blow it up?

[AussieFanKurt]

Not saying it will happen but what will need to happen for the Spurs to blow it up and start again?

[Robz4000]

For things to literally blow up.

[Genovaswitness]

hopefully soon. Team is dogshit. I’ll tune in tonight like I always do regardles

[KobesAchilles]

Will be interesting to see if we keep on losing whether or not the “stars” will ask for a trade

[CGD]

About now. Get something for LMA, DDR, Gay’s deal, on top of what looks like your own good picks over next 2 years.

[Spurtacular]

Only after KGB Gregg leaves. His ego won't let him do a rebuild.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

In 3 weeks when they're 6-17

[Dennis the Menace]

Only after KGB Gregg leaves. His ego won't let him do a rebuild.

[wildcardX]

I think once they realistically can't make the playoffs this year they may start moving some pieces. I'm just surprised they have not made any type of roster changes since the season started. They have not looked good at all in any complete game.

[DMC]

Not saying it will happen but what will need to happen for the Spurs to blow it up and start again?

About 10 seconds after you bend over.

[sananspursfan21]

In 3 weeks when they're 6-17

What about this team makes you think they’ll win another game?

[jeebus]

Spurs have tons of new guys. Pop just doesn't want to play them. Why blow the team up to get a bunch of new older players for Shit to play over our drafted players?

[Chris]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a5/60/ee/a560ee6aa4dda4cf1052822a3c167ef2.gif

[K...]

Can they really blow it up? I mean DeroZan is getting traded, opting out, or playing another year. There's not a big market for him given the contract. LMA is similar. He might have more value, but he also has less competition here. Whereas DeroZan is competing Murray, Lonnie, and Keldon. Lma is just watching peortle.

[DMC]

San Antonio isn't a blow it up franchise. They don't have the veteran presence to do anything with a pick, and they aren't brazen enough to out tank other historically shitty teams so they'd likely not get a decent pick anyhow. If we just had a Markelle Fultz and Lonzo Ball, we'd be set.

[swrowe78]

San Antonio isn't a blow it up franchise. They don't have the veteran presence to do anything with a pick, and they aren't brazen enough to out tank other historically shitty teams so they'd likely not get a decent pick anyhow. If we just had a Markelle Fultz and Lonzo Ball, we'd be set.
Not a fan of either. Both way too injury prone.

[KobesAchilles]

Not a fan of either. Both way too injury prone.
He didn’t put the blue don’t but cmon man :lol

[DMC]

Not a fan of either. Both way too injury prone.

That's about the best we'd get with anything other than a 1st overall pick, most likely. Without vet presence to set a standard, young potential in SA will be no better than young potential in Sacramento.

[Ibleedslvrnblk]

San Antonio isn't a blow it up franchise. They don't have the veteran presence to do anything with a pick, and they aren't brazen enough to out tank other historically shitty teams so they'd likely not get a decent pick anyhow. If we just had a Markelle Fultz and Lonzo Ball, we'd be set.

Said no one....I sure as shit hope that's sarcasm...Remember things can be worse.

[DMC]

He didn’t put the blue don’t but cmon man :lol

:lol the legend of the gnsf is safe

[Mugen]

Pretty sure they decided to blow it up in the Summer of 2018 tbh.

[JeffDuncan]

Pretty sure they decided to blow it up in the Summer of 2018 tbh.

Yeah, I was thinking it looks pretty well blown up now. My question being, when do they put it back together?

[ducks]

Coach now

[BackHome]

This is the first year I think we won’t make playoff and may actually get a high draft pick.

[sasaint]

Not until Pop is gone.

[sasaint]

:pop: "Down the stretch we had problems like we had in a lot of games..."

And Dumbmar is the main man at those times. When you gonna get it, Pop?!?!

[DMC]

Coach now

Bread good

[horseshue]

Last year this team was 10-14 at one point, so i think it is a bit too early for a total meltdown. Let's wait and see. If we go like 7-10 games below 0.500, then i think major changes must come.

[SAGirl]

I think once they realistically can't make the playoffs this year they may start moving some pieces. I'm just surprised they have not made any type of roster changes since the season started. They have not looked good at all in any complete game.
:pop: these guys have got to figure it out

[vander]

there's no reason to keep LMA and Derozen, dumping them would be addition by subtraction, Spurs would get a better draft pick, and the young guys would get more playing time.
anything the Spurs could get in return for them would just be a bonus

[TDMVPDPOY]

patfo only interested protecting pops bullshit playoffs appearance record, nothing else, even if its being a pretender first round exit...

[gambit1990]

they should've blown it up when i said they should: the 2017/2018 season.

i said in the january of that season that kawhi wouldn't be coming back. should've been a blowup / tank season. i was right on the money. shit has gone way down since.

[Keepin' it real]

patfo only interested protecting pops bullshit playoffs appearance record, nothing else, even if its being a pretender first round exit...

Once you're in the playoffs, anything is possible!

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I imagine they’ll wait for a long time until it’s hopeless before deciding to blow it up, hoping for a change similar to last season’s. They looked even worse this time last year and managed to turn it around.

Once they commit to blowing it up it’s a long hard road for a small market franchise to get to be even mediocre. Easier for fans to have a championship or bust attitude than for people who are required to run a business profitably. Chances are it’ll take them 3 or 4 years of being bad to get to being a fringe playoff team again, so it’s understandable to wait for a while with the hope things get better this season. Don’t expect full tanking until after game 50/trade deadline.

[TDMVPDPOY]

TEAM really needs a ballhog volume scorer, they should draft one...

[Slippy]

First step would be the head coach to step aside. Fresh mind to motivate these guys is needed. Blowing it up blames it all on the players.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

It doesn't look very good but I would still try doing something this year. If it doesn't work you have half the season after the all star break to tank it. Get whatever you can from the best players, clean up cap, and draft as high as possible for the next 2 years.

[DPG21920]

I imagine they’ll wait for a long time until it’s hopeless before deciding to blow it up, hoping for a change similar to last season’s. They looked even worse this time last year and managed to turn it around.

Once they commit to blowing it up it’s a long hard road for a small market franchise to get to be even mediocre. Easier for fans to have a championship or bust attitude than for people who are required to run a business profitably. Chances are it’ll take them 3 or 4 years of being bad to get to being a fringe playoff team again, so it’s understandable to wait for a while with the hope things get better this season. Don’t expect full tanking until after game 50/trade deadline.

I don’t agree with the all or nothing. Moving Derozan wouldn’t send the team to the depths. They made the playoffs with no Kawhi and no Derozan

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I don’t agree with the all or nothing. Moving Derozan wouldn’t send the team to the depths. They made the playoffs with no Kawhi and no Derozan

Don't do this to yourself. This team won't be better without DDR. Neither is LMA the same he was 2 years ago. There's also a huge difference in the supporting cast - it was a true vet team back then. Pop also squeezed every ounce of talent they had.

There are a few promising young players on the roster right now, and hopefully one of them grows to be a star, but currently they're nowhere near other young casts around the league, such as Atlanta's for example who still aren't a playoff team.

[sasaint]

essentially you're saying

FATHEAD>low IQ frustration Fouling DDR

I agree.

Put in LWJ or KJ and let your "HOF COACH" ... coach em up.... instead of playacting DDR's ego and his explosions of "non calls"

I mean its proven in many aspects wise investments of resources NOW pay long term Dividends LATER.

Do Not let the HOF COACH try to coach em up. He is a short-timer now. At this critical transitional moment let a new regime have a crack at it.

[cd021]

If the Spurs go 1-3 in their next 4 that'll out them at 6-11. Have to think PATFO will at least consider it probably isn't going to work out this season.

[DPG21920]

Don't do this to yourself. This team won't be better without DDR. Neither is LMA the same he was 2 years ago. There's also a huge difference in the supporting cast - it was a true vet team back then. Pop also squeezed every ounce of talent they had.

There are a few promising young players on the roster right now, and hopefully one of them grows to be a star, but currently they're nowhere near other young casts around the league, such as Atlanta's for example who still aren't a playoff team.

Sure - but Dejounte and White are better and if you get assets for DDR that “fit”? I’m not saying it’s some lock but they won’t be some bottom dweller. Even a reduced LMA with the assets from DDR and the young guys are way better than ATL. It would not be some bottom dwelling team; even if it’s not quite a playoff team.

But that’s the same with Derozan and this team needs a higher ceiling which Derozan doesn’t give SA.

I was for keeping Derozan vs trading him this last off season if SA actually invested in winning now and reshaped the roster to suit their players. But they didn’t do that so the calculus has now changed.


You either go in and build around Derozan (they didn’t) or you trade him. Sa will not be worse without Derozan if they pick up a serviceable role player in the deal (even a Danny Green type)

[Realdeal1]

So any top prospects in the draft lotto next year ?

[Russ]

Historically speaking, blowing it up usually doesn't work.

What blowing it up usually leads to, rather than success, is blowing it up yet again a few years later.

That said, I think the Spurs need to either get DeRozan on board or consider moving him.

[DPG21920]

Ya this isn’t a blow up unless you move LMA Derozan and Rudy. We already have good role players and young talent. This is reshaping the roster while rebuilding on the fly.

[phxspurfan]

Soon

[ceperez]

Time to blow it up... no elite talent on this team.

[sasaint]

Ya this isn’t a blow up unless you move LMA Derozan and Rudy. We already have good role players and young talent. This is reshaping the roster while rebuilding on the fly.

I agree. Not a blow-up. But I do not want to have Pop oversee the “reshaping.” He is not going to be around for the long haul. At this critical transition I want to get a HC in place who will be here for the long haul. There are some critical moves to be made, and I want the guy who will have to live with their consequences to be able to make his own bed.

[sasaint]

they should've blown it up when i said they should: the 2017/2018 season.

i said in the january of that season that kawhi wouldn't be coming back. should've been a blowup / tank season. i was right on the money. shit has gone way down since.

Pop should have stepped down and allowed a new regime to handle the Number 2 event. The consequences of the handling of that event were going to have serious impact that would outlast Pop.

[TD 21]

Sure - but Dejounte and White are better and if you get assets for DDR that “fit”? I’m not saying it’s some lock but they won’t be some bottom dweller. Even a reduced LMA with the assets from DDR and the young guys are way better than ATL. It would not be some bottom dwelling team; even if it’s not quite a playoff team.

But that’s the same with Derozan and this team needs a higher ceiling which Derozan doesn’t give SA.

I was for keeping Derozan vs trading him this last off season if SA actually invested in winning now and reshaped the roster to suit their players. But they didn’t do that so the calculus has now changed.


You either go in and build around Derozan (they didn’t) or you trade him. Sa will not be worse without Derozan if they pick up a serviceable role player in the deal (even a Danny Green type)

These cult members don't get it. They think because DeRozan looks the part of a cliche star, that he actually is one and that if you lose that for mere role players, then the team will naturally be worse.

Trade him (and whatever gets it done, whether it's Belinelli or they have to go a step further, with Forbes and Carroll in his stead) for Gordon and Fournier and the team would be better.

Unless the player is a superstar or a tier under, fit is more important than raw talent. Look at teams like the Raptors and Pacers. Heck, even the Hornets and Wizards. Sure, it won't last, but right now the former is a game under .500 and the latter has the 3rd ranked offense. Only the Wizards have a designated "closer", but he's not only their lone star, but lone sure fire starter period.

[K...]

Pop should have stepped down and allowed a new regime to handle the Number 2 event. The consequences of the handling of that event were going to have serious impact that would outlast Pop.

It was really a perfect storm. Pops wife, the holts passing ownership to the next generation. There was no one could remove pop from the team at that time.

[Russ]

Pop should have stepped down and allowed a new regime to handle the Number 2 event. The consequences of the handling of that event were going to have serious impact that would outlast Pop.

They did the best they could with Kawhi.

As a trade asset, he was only a one-year rental who let the world know (1) the Spurs had to trade him and (2) he would be in LA the next year.

Kawhi had no regard for the Spurs whatsoever and he didn't care who knew about it.

[sasaint]

They did the best they could with Kawhi.

As a trade asset, he was only a one-year rental who let the world know (1) the Spurs had to trade him and (2) he would be in LA the next year.

Kawhi had no regard for the Spurs whatsoever and he didn't care who knew about it.

Wow, I haven’t heard that before.

I didn’t say anything about whether the trade was good or bad. Another regime might have chosen a different route. Trades of that level of impact happen very seldom in the entire existence of a franchise. At a point when regime change is in sight, I would have preferred for the Spurs to move on and allow a new regime to mold its own destiny consistent with its vision.

[Russ]

Wow, I haven’t heard that before.

I didn’t say anything about whether the trade was good or bad. Another regime might have chosen a different route. Trades of that level of impact happen very seldom in the entire existence of a franchise. At a point when regime change is in sight, I would have preferred for the Spurs to move on and allow a new regime to mold its own destiny consistent with its vision.

So not only should Kawhi have been able to dictate his trade, he should have also been able to dictate a long-lasting change in the makeup of the Spurs' front office going forward?

Forcing all those hugely consequential decisions to be made on the fly in a matter of weeks?

Maybe that's just too much power to give the disgruntled dribbler of a ball.

[sasaint]

You are creating straw men that don’t reflect my position. I don’t know how a new regime would have handled the Number 2 situation. Perhaps it would have forced Number 2 to come to camp. Perhaps it would have let him sit out the year - again. Perhaps it would have offered him a max. Perhaps it would have made a different trade. Perhaps it would have made the same trade. I was of the opinion that however a new regime chose to handle Number 2 it should have had that opportunity.

But Pop needs to go, and he needed to go before then. He certainly doesn’t need to coach beyond this season. It would have been a propitious time to change regimes. In addition, it was quite possible that the Spurs could have lured Coach Bud back. Moreover, whoever was here to negotiate a possible trade would have been a completely different negotiator than PATFO.

[Kurgan]

You are creating straw men that don’t reflect my position. I don’t know how a new regime would have handled the Number 2 situation. Perhaps it would have forced Number 2 to come to camp. Perhaps it would have let him sit out the year - again. Perhaps it would have offered him a max. Perhaps it would have made a different trade. Perhaps it would have made the same trade. I was of the opinion that however a new regime chose to handle Number 2 it should have had that opportunity.

But Pop needs to go, and he needed to go before then. He certainly doesn’t need to coach beyond this season. It would have been a propitious time to change regimes. In addition, it was quite possible that the Spurs could have lured Coach Bud back. Moreover, whoever was here to negotiate a possible trade would have been a completely different negotiator than PATFO.

The most crippling move Pop did in regards to the Kawhi trade was trying to get a package back that would help him get the Spurs into the playoffs. Instead of looking at deals(picks or youth prospects) that would help the team in the future, he made a half-assed win now move in acquiring Derozan. And for what? Because the old man was terrified of coaching a lottery team in his final two years as an NBA head coach.

[spurs1990]

We can't discount trading Leonard to Toronto was somewhat of an 'exile' move by the Spurs. They thought it would be one of the last places Leonard and his reps would want to be at after their ballsy LA or bust trade demand. As luck would have it it worked out for them anyway.

Back to this season. We still have one more mileage mark to pass, and that's the lifting of Murray's minutes restriction. He's a vital cog and warrants a full slate of games (10-15) to examine how the team fares when he's playing his full allotment. If the Spurs continue to play sub-500 even with Murray at full strength, then that would be the signal to plan for next season.

Let's say by January 1st this should all come to a head.

[sasaint]

The most crippling move Pop did in regards to the Kawhi trade was trying to get a package back that would help him get the Spurs into the playoffs. Instead of looking at deals(picks or youth prospects) that would help the team in the future, he made a half-assed win now move in acquiring Derozan. And for what? Because the old man was terrified of coaching a lottery team in his final two years as an NBA head coach.

That sure seems like what his motivation was. But really, we only have circumstantial evidence. I have no idea what goes on in Pop’s mind when he does those deals with Pau and Fitty Mills or when he signs a guy to a $7M-3yr deal and buries him on the bench before the season begins or when he persists I playing Marco - especially in tandem with Fitty - or when he had 2 very good centers and 2 very good PFs but stubbornly played both centers together and both PFs together and went down to OKC in the playoffs... or now favors an athletic but unskilled Dijon over a very good PG prospect in DWhite. I just know that the majority of Pop’s decisions in recent years do not inspire my confidence. In Pop I definitely do not trust.

[daslicer]

We can't discount trading Leonard to Toronto was somewhat of an 'exile' move by the Spurs. They thought it would be one of the last places Leonard and his reps would want to be at after their ballsy LA or bust trade demand. As luck would have it it worked out for them anyway.

Back to this season. We still have one more mileage mark to pass, and that's the lifting of Murray's minutes restriction. He's a vital cog and warrants a full slate of games (10-15) to examine how the team fares when he's playing his full allotment. If the Spurs continue to play sub-500 even with Murray at full strength, then that would be the signal to plan for next season.

Let's say by January 1st this should all come to a head.

It was a Pop move in the sense Pop wanted to eat his cake and have it. Pop thought he could keep the Spurs a playoff contender by doing that move and like you said basically dick over #2. Sending #2 to Toronto was the worst thing ever because it enabled him to win another title and create an insufferable platform for him on the national stage in which now we have these media idiots pushing "Load Management." Should have sent #2 to Charlotte for Kemba where he would have been miserable having to be on a lottery team along with dealing with MJ. Even if Kemba walks during FA it's still better than having to dealing with Derozan.

[spurs1990]

Should have sent #2 to Charlotte for Kemba where he would have been miserable having to be on a lottery team along with dealing with MJ. Even if Kemba walks during FA it's still better than having to dealing with Derozan.

This is a brilliant proposal even after the fact. Jordan would've thrown in a 1st still possibly to get his pet player on board. Come to think of it Charlotte is another cast away destination and would've been far worse than Toronto.

Kemba would've taken us to the playoffs in 2019 too. But as you say it would've been a one year rental but worth it knowing what we have seen with DeRozan in 100 games. At least Kemba would shoot a gd three.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Sure - but Dejounte and White are better and if you get assets for DDR that “fit”? I’m not saying it’s some lock but they won’t be some bottom dweller. Even a reduced LMA with the assets from DDR and the young guys are way better than ATL. It would not be some bottom dwelling team; even if it’s not quite a playoff team.

I'm not sure what your point is. That they wouldn't be a 25-win team, but a 35-win team? They are playing exactly like that right now. Most people would argue that being not quite a playoff team is worse than being a bottom dweller due to ping pong balls.

As for Dejounte and White, they're developing but not without bumps on the road - right now Murray can't hit a J, he's like a mini Westbrook and that type of player even at his best doesn't affect winning as much. He needs to become a reliable shooter, to run the PnR much much better and to be able to penetrate and kick in the half court. He's a long way off. White's regressed this season, mainly when it comes to being aggressive. Neither of them is close to being a star capable of leading a team to the playoffs right now.


But that’s the same with Derozan and this team needs a higher ceiling which Derozan doesn’t give SA.

Exactly - it's the same right now. The only ways to have a higher ceiling is by either getting a star in free agency, which the Spurs can't do, or developing a player into a star. A DDR trade does nothing to address the higher ceiling.


I was for keeping Derozan vs trading him this last off season if SA actually invested in winning now and reshaped the roster to suit their players. But they didn’t do that so the calculus has now changed.

Well they arguably tried with Morris, although my personal opinion is it wouldn't have worked either, because they're built on sand. This roster had no business being close to 50 wins the last couple of seasons. But everyone hates the coaches right now so no point arguing whether they were overachieving and it's all just coming back to earth.


You either go in and build around Derozan (they didn’t) or you trade him. Sa will not be worse without Derozan if they pick up a serviceable role player in the deal (even a Danny Green type)

I disagree. They won't be better picking up a decent role player in a hypothetical DDR trade. He's still the best playmaker on the team, the only one who attacks the rim consistently and the only one going to the free throw line. What will some random role player do? Role players depend on stars to open up the game for them in order to be effective. They'll have to go back to throwing it down to Aldridge all the time, which won't be able to generate enough points to overcome the poor defensive personnel. They'd be just the same at best, likely worse off.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

If you look at the schedule, the rest of the month, Spurs will be lucky to win one more game(Wizards on 11/20).


Going to Cleveland on DECEMBER 12th the Spurs are more likely to be 6 games under .500 than being 1 game above .500


A record of 6-17 to 9-14 is a REAL strong probability with this team, this coach and DDR as the primary ball-handler.


I believe the term bandied about here is


"FALLING OFF A CLIFF"


So CULTIST, if this team is 9-14 on December 12th, 2019, what defense would you make for your cult leader Pop to keep rolling out DDR LMA Beli and his shit rotations rather than calling EVERYBODY up from Austin?

I don't know WTF you talking about, boy - cult? wtf - I don't give a shit either way they do